Director Mike Flanagan, along with cast members Tom Hiddleston, Chiwetel Ejiofor & Karen Gillan discuss 'The Life of Chuck' at Variety's Studio at TIFF.
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00:00It feels like a story that's about trying
00:01to hold on to what is good in a world that
00:05feels like it's falling apart.
00:08And that takes great courage and great wisdom.
00:11It takes a real talent for living.
00:13The film's called The Life of Chuck.
00:15And yes, it's about Chuck's life,
00:16but it's about all of our lives.
00:18And that there are moments of spontaneity,
00:23moments of connection, moments of joy in all of our lives,
00:27which will become the moments we remember
00:30in the last hours of our lives.
00:32So Mike, I wanted to start with you.
00:44And just in a general sense, what
00:45makes a project worth adapting?
00:48And were you envisioning a movie in your head
00:51when you were reading Stephen King's novella
00:53for the first time?
00:54Oh, absolutely.
00:55I first read the novella just as the COVID lockdown
01:00began in 2020.
01:01And so this particular story connected with me
01:05in a very, very visceral way at the time.
01:08There's no moment where a story roars off the page
01:12and says, I want to be a movie.
01:14But what started to happen as I continued to read it
01:18was that sequences, very cinematic sequences,
01:20just began to play out in my imagination.
01:23When I put the story down, I was
01:26amazed by how much joy and hope and emotion
01:31I was feeling on a story that I didn't think
01:33was necessarily going that way in the beginning.
01:37And I remember shutting it, turning to my wife and saying,
01:42we have to do this.
01:43This might be one of the best movies we ever get to make.
01:47And for the cast, could you talk about how the project landed
01:51on your radar?
01:52And then what appealed to you about the character
01:54you're playing, if that's how you want to start?
01:56Yeah, I mean, I just was just completely thrilled
02:00to get the script and be just so moved by it.
02:08I think it's one of those stories
02:12that you're so intrigued.
02:15And then you're drawn in, and there's a tension to it,
02:21a really deep tension.
02:22And there's a kind of existential sense
02:24of the world.
02:25And then there's something extraordinarily beautiful
02:29and emotional that takes over and just rocks you.
02:35And so that was my experience with it.
02:39And I came at it the other way around, in a way,
02:44because I read the script.
02:45And I hadn't, at that time, I'm sorry,
02:47Stephen, but I hadn't, at that point,
02:49read the novella, which I then went and immediately read.
02:52And it was just stunning.
02:57So I spoke to Tom.
02:58I was in the States.
03:03I think you were in the UK.
03:05In London, yeah.
03:06Yeah, and as we just sort of were talking about it
03:09and just circling this idea, these characters
03:12don't meet in the story.
03:14But it was that thing we were talking
03:15about, about being different painters doing
03:18different parts of a canvas, and just
03:21kind of really sort of experiencing this thing
03:24in this really profound way.
03:25So it was just incredibly meaningful and immediate
03:29for me, this experience.
03:35Yes, I came into contact with the script.
03:40Mike and Trevor Macy, Mike's producer, sent me the script.
03:44And I read it very quickly.
03:46And I found it extraordinarily touching.
03:52My response was immediate.
03:55I was really gripped by the first act,
04:00which is the third act.
04:01And that will make sense when you see it.
04:03And I found it very compelling and very mysterious.
04:08And it was a real page turner for me.
04:10And then the revelations, and there
04:12were many revelations in the story,
04:14were I felt incredibly emotional and surprising
04:22in the most extraordinarily joyful way.
04:24I felt really touched by it.
04:26And I remember finishing it and thinking,
04:29I would love to do this.
04:33And very quickly spoke to Mike and Trevor and said that.
04:38I said, I would love to do this.
04:39Please can I do it?
04:40And they said, yes, we would love you to do this.
04:42So yeah, there's something in the soul of the story which
04:46is very tender and very wise.
04:50And it spoke to so much of the, it
04:55resonated very deeply with me in a very personal way.
05:00Feels like a story that's about trying
05:02to hold on to what is good in a world that
05:06feels like it's falling apart.
05:09That takes great courage and great wisdom.
05:12It takes a real talent for living.
05:14Film's called The Life of Chuck.
05:15And yes, it's about Chuck's life,
05:17but it's about all of our lives.
05:19And that there are moments of spontaneity,
05:24moments of connection, moments of joy in all of our lives,
05:28which will become the moments we remember
05:30in the last hours of our lives.
05:33And it's about trying to find those moments
05:35and experience them and hold them dear,
05:41because the world is full of pain and suffering.
05:44That's true.
05:45But there are also moments of joy.
05:47And I had never seen it so beautifully expressed
05:51as in this story.
05:54So I said yes very quickly.
05:58And Mike said yes too.
06:01That was so beautiful.
06:03The movie is so beautiful.
06:05People talking about it is so beautiful.
06:07But for me, Mike called me and told me about the project.
06:11And then I think sent me the script.
06:14I was so excited to get a call from Mike.
06:15I've worked with him before on Oculus.
06:17And so I was immediately ready to say yes,
06:20regardless of what he was gonna send me.
06:21But anyway, I read it and I was like,
06:23okay, thank God, it's brilliant.
06:26And it was just so moving and original.
06:31I thought it was one of the most original things
06:32I've come across in a long time.
06:34In terms of structure and also just the way
06:36it's dealing with saying goodbye to your life in a way.
06:43And it was so Mike as well.
06:44His identity was all over it.
06:47And so I just knew immediately I had to do it.
06:51Since the movie is told in reverse chronological order,
06:54is there anything from an establishing perspective
06:57that you need to do as a director
06:59that maybe you wouldn't if a film
07:00was told in a traditional narrative,
07:03just so the audience is following
07:05the direction the movie's going in?
07:07That's an incredible question
07:09and one that we asked constantly.
07:13It was the first question of the screenwriting process,
07:16but the structure that Stephen King had created for it
07:19was so perfect for this story
07:21and created such an interesting experience
07:24in the way it doled out information
07:27and made connections between these different periods
07:30in someone's life.
07:32It then became an opportunity to mix things up actually
07:36and to say, well, these are such distinct
07:40kind of separate stories in a lot of ways.
07:42We can shoot them differently.
07:43They can have different aspect ratios.
07:45We can have a different color palette for them.
07:47We can try to really make them distinct,
07:50but then how do we make sure they feel connected,
07:52coherent, and part of one larger story?
07:54I think our lives are like this
07:57and this is something that was important
07:58to try to put on the screen.
08:01Our lives are not ordered and monochromatic.
08:04Our lives tend to be,
08:06Tom used the word constellations recently
08:09and I thought that was perfect.
08:11I've often thought of the moments in our life
08:14as instead of being a straight line,
08:16it's confetti that falls around us.
08:18There was a chance for this story to feel a bit like life
08:23and there's something I truly believe
08:26that we only really understand a lot of the connections
08:29and a lot of the meaning in the moments of our lives
08:31when we look back.
08:34It's sometimes very difficult
08:37to feel them as we're looking ahead
08:38and so this story lent itself to that structure
08:42just so naturally and I think is one of the things
08:45that makes it so affecting.
08:47And since it's told in three separate chapters
08:50and the cast doesn't always overlap between them,
08:53were you all in contact about the narrative through line
08:56or any connections in that sense?
09:00Well, yes, I mean, I think they are quite contained,
09:03the three acts are quite contained.
09:09But I remember we saw each other a weekend before I started
09:13and obviously we'd spoken on the phone
09:15and there was a sense of a kind of,
09:17we were creating this constellation together
09:21and each of us was responsible
09:23for a slightly different star in the night sky
09:26that was gonna burn at the particular radiance
09:30that it needed to burn at.
09:33I think that's the beauty of the story
09:34is it feels like all the characters
09:38and all the performances are actually expressing
09:41different aspects of the painting,
09:46different qualities and moments
09:52about the business of being alive
09:55and where meaning resides in our lives.
09:59Whether it's the end of an individual life
10:02or the end of the world, where do we find meaning?
10:08And I think the answer to that question
10:13is likely to be surprising.
10:19Did anyone else?
10:20That makes sense.
10:21No, I've been told since I just don't wanna go after that.
10:25Tom, you have a big dance sequence.
10:28What was the style of dance that was hardest to master
10:31and which came easiest to you?
10:33Wow, that's a great question.
10:34So yes, as very, very carefully
10:38and beautifully described by Stephen King in the novella,
10:43there is a extraordinary moment of joy
10:48and spontaneity as expressed in this dance sequence.
10:52Joy and spontaneity as expressed in this dance.
10:55And I play Chuck Krantz and Chuck Krantz
11:00seems to all the world like the accountant that he is.
11:04That's his job.
11:05And he's on his way to a conference
11:08and walking along the sidewalk one day,
11:13he hears a drummer busking on the street
11:17and he likes the sound of that drum
11:20and he puts down his briefcase
11:22and he starts to move.
11:24And he begins to remember
11:27the other multitudes that he contains.
11:30One of which is that he was taught to dance
11:32by his grandmother in his kitchen as a child.
11:35And that went on to become something he did at high school.
11:40And then that this dance number evolved
11:42very spontaneously out of a connection with the drummer
11:46and another young woman who's in the crowd.
11:50And in approaching it with Mike and Annalise Basso
11:54who plays Janice and Taylor Gordon, the drummer
11:56and Mandy Moore, our choreographer,
11:59we kept thinking, well, Chuck as a young boy
12:02would have, was actually taught,
12:05so many different styles.
12:06He was probably taught jazz and swing
12:08and polka and bossa nova and samba and salsa
12:11and cha-cha and quick step
12:13and all of these very technical dances.
12:17None of which I have any training in.
12:19So I had to do a kind of a six week fast track.
12:27It's interesting.
12:27There are some that came more easily than others.
12:31I found I loved dancing jazz and swing.
12:36Bossa nova is a technical thing
12:39that took my hips a little minute to get my head around.
12:44That makes sense.
12:46And polka is like a 100 meter sprint.
12:51It feels like a gallop.
12:52It feels, but that's the thing about all these dances
12:55is that if you do them enough,
12:57the rhythm infuses your body
12:59and you start to feel the thing within yourself
13:02that it looks like.
13:05There are certain really, really kinetic dynamic dances
13:08and there are dances which are much more soft and delicate.
13:13But the key thing was really the joy.
13:16If I didn't quite nail the technique,
13:22it was more about expressing the joy.
13:25Yeah, bossa nova.
13:29Look great to me.
13:32As you all mentioned,
13:33the film deals with themes of the end of the world.
13:35So not to be morbid,
13:37but if you could go around and say,
13:38how would you spend your perfect last day
13:41if you knew that was coming?
13:43Wow.
13:45Here's the thing.
13:46That's what is so interesting about your question
13:48is that this is the, I think,
13:50the great twinkle in the eye of the film
13:54and in the eye of Stephen King's story
13:56is that none of us know when our last day will come.
14:01And that's the great mystery of life
14:03is that nobody gives you the date, your expiration date.
14:09And we live in that uncertainty all the time, every day.
14:13And none of us know how soon
14:14or how far away that day is.
14:16And so the challenge of life is to embrace the moment
14:21and not to think, none of us have forever.
14:23That's for sure.
14:25But it's like, how do you embrace the moment?
14:28Because your last day might be around the corner.
14:32You don't know.
14:32So it's sort of, how do you,
14:35I suppose not to be cliche,
14:36but how do you live every day as if it might be your last?
14:39How do you feel that you are content
14:42with the content with yourself, content with your life?
14:48Well, there's something quite interesting
14:50in this idea that you do know.
14:52I mean, in this context of knowing and what that does.
14:57And I think there's something that's quite fascinating
15:00about the wheels coming off,
15:04but the pursuit of normality,
15:07which I think is very,
15:09I haven't seen it before
15:11interpreted quite in this way.
15:12And that's, I think that's, it feels very true to me
15:16that the balance between trying to figure out
15:18how to have everything be normal
15:21and the knowledge that it's all gonna end,
15:24I think is a strange
15:26and probably quite honest way of engaging with it.
15:30I think that that's something that I think
15:31is probably what I would be trying to do
15:35is to try to create a sense of normality.
15:39And, you know, with family, with friends,
15:42and, you know, but, you know, quietly freaking out.
15:45But you're saying you do know?
15:47You know your last day?
15:48Well, I'm not saying I.
15:50I know, I know, I know.
15:53Well, in the context of the question,
15:54you know, this idea of like,
15:56if you were to-
15:57If you were to know it was your last day.
15:58Or you used to know the world was gonna end,
16:00or if, you know, if it was, if it was clear.
16:04Which I suppose it never is, yeah.
16:06Yeah.
16:06I think, oh.
16:07No, please, please.
16:08Oh, I was just gonna say,
16:09it's interesting in the film that the characters do know.
16:11And so what they do is seek out connection with each other.
16:14And I think that,
16:15I think that's probably the most natural thing in the world.
16:18And I've read a weird amount of quotes
16:19from people on their deathbeds.
16:21And like, they talk about how so many things fall away
16:24that you've given so much weight to,
16:26like the accolades that you might have won along the way,
16:28or like all the money that you earned,
16:30or all the things that you achieved.
16:32And actually what matters is the relationships
16:35that you had in your life and the connections.
16:36And so I think my guess is
16:39that I would be seeking out my strongest connections
16:42and just trying to spend my last moments in those.
16:47That was something that struck me so much about the story,
16:49because when you read apocalyptic stories,
16:52when you see something about the end of the world,
16:54it tends to be people running and screaming from something,
16:57a giant tidal wave, or a firewall, or something.
17:02And this story from the start
17:04seemed to exist in a place of acceptance
17:07and of the questions that we would really ask.
17:09Who from our past meant something to us?
17:12Who, if we did know there was only a few minutes left,
17:15who would we want to spend that time with?
17:16And I thought it was so amazing
17:18to be talking about the end of the world,
17:21but without that visceral terror that comes with that,
17:24and instead looking at characters who call each other up,
17:26they haven't spoken in a long time,
17:28or sit together to look at the stars and take a moment.
17:32You know, it really forces you, first as a reader,
17:36and I hope as a viewer, to ask those questions
17:39and to say, if it was my last day, where would I be?
17:45I like to hope that that answer changes over time,
17:48and that the important thing is that you keep
17:50just revisiting it, in so much as it's comfortable,
17:52because we don't want to dwell in that either.
17:55But I know I want to be with my wife and with my children
18:00and with the people who are the most important to me.
18:03Outside of that, what the day looks like, that changes.
18:07But I like taking just a moment to remind myself of that
18:11and to remember what's important,
18:12and this story did that for me in a very profound way.
18:14Well, it's also that thing about the end of the world,
18:17you know, without it sounding like a cliche,
18:19but in this story, the end of the world
18:21is really just the beginning of this story.
18:24And I think that's what makes it so powerful,
18:27that understanding that, whatever it is,
18:30whatever the end of the world might be,
18:32is probably just the beginning
18:34of a completely different story.
18:36And one of the things Stephen King said
18:39when he talked about the origin of the story for him
18:42was that he had heard someone say,
18:43when an old man dies, a library burns down,
18:46that the end of a person is the end of a world, you know,
18:50that even our individual experience ends a universe.
18:54And that's something that I think is worth remembering,
18:57that all of us contain this, we contain multitudes.
19:01We contain so much more
19:04than kind of our outward-facing selves.
19:07And the sum of our experience and of our life
19:09is so much more than a description,
19:12or money, or accomplishment, like you're saying.
19:15It's a world.
19:17So each of us is the end of a world someday.
19:20Yes, the end of a life is the end of a world.
19:26And to what you were referencing,
19:28if the life of every human being is a constellation,
19:31at the end of that life, all those stars will be extinguished.
19:37Memories, connections, relationships, moments,
19:43and that inside the soul of every human being
19:48are a myriad connections, real and imagined,
19:52real relationships, but also imagined connections
19:55to art, and literature, and ideas, and books, and music.
20:00And all those things fold at the end of a life.
20:03But I think any contemplation with death or with the end,
20:09I believe, beautifully inspires an appreciation of life
20:16and the stuff of life and the meaning in life
20:19that those people you love
20:21and the people you're connected to,
20:23that's all that matters,
20:25and the magic that's happened between you.
20:28And that perhaps the moments in your life
20:32that you thought were small weren't small at all.
20:37Those small moments were the big moments.
20:41And I found that very touching.
20:46I think one thing that happens
20:47when we do contemplate the end like that,
20:50the question we're all gonna have is why?
20:52Why was it all?
20:53What was it all for?
20:54Why did the good things happen?
20:56Why did the bad things happen?
20:57And there's something amazing about this story
21:00as King wrote it, because it doesn't have all the answers,
21:04but it attempts to answer that,
21:06and it points to something, something very specific,
21:09and says that, that's why, that's what it's for.
21:13And it's not everything.
21:15It's not the all-encompassing answer,
21:17but it's an answer I think is true,
21:20and that makes something like this a project
21:23that how do you not do it?
21:26How do you not take an opportunity
21:28to try to point at an answer like that?
21:31It's true, and it's brave.
21:33Yeah.
21:33It's brave to hold on to what's good
21:37in a world that feels like it's falling apart.
21:40I think it takes great courage.
21:43Well, thank you guys so much.
21:44We have to wrap, but it was great chatting with you all.