Who Is The Best Member Of THE SHIELD?! STEINER MATH VS PIPEBOMB SHOWDOWN! | Gripebombs - video Dailymotion

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partsFUNknown presents the first episode of Gripebombs! A pro wrestling debate show hosted by Tempest where only the best arguments settle scores! Today we find out once and for all who the best member of The Shield is as Oli Davis, Luke Owen, and Laurie Blake do battle in verbal warfare!  Logo designed by: Lee Wildgoose https://www.instagram.com/leewildgoose/ https://goosecreativedesign.com/  SUBSCRIBE TO partsFUNknown: https://bit.ly/2J2Hl6q TWITTER: https://twitter.com/partsfunknown FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/partsfunknown/ Buy wrestling merchandise here: https://www.wrestleshop.com/ Unlock the secrets to working in professional wrestling, sign up to https://www.wrestlingmasterclass.com/ Read more Feature content here on WrestleTalk.com: https://wrestletalk.com/features/  Youtube Channel Comments Policy We appreciate the comments and opinions our viewers provide. Do note that all comments are subject to YouTube auto-moderation and manual moderation review. We encourage opinions and discussion, but harassment, hate speech, bullying and other abusive posts will not be tolerated. Decisions on comment removal are made by the Community Manager. Please email us at support@wrestletalk.com with any questions or concerns.

Transcript

00:00:00Hello and welcome to our brand new pro-wrestling debate show. This is Grite Bombs, and not

00:00:18only will we today find out who is definitively the best member of the Shield, but we will

00:00:25once and for all put to bed the debate of which is the best promo of all time, Steiner

00:00:33Math or the Pipe Bomb. Everybody's been waiting, let's meet our contestants. First up, representing

00:00:40the Pipe Bomb, it's Oli Davis. Yep, YouTube's own Oli. Don't boo me! Look, this is disrespectful

00:00:47already in these debates. Can we mute his mic when I'm speaking? No. No, right, okay.

00:00:53I thought I'd ask. Yeah, I'm here, I'm representing CM Punk and the Pipe Bomb Brigade. The Voice

00:01:01of the Voiceless is what they call me, and over there is the Calculator of the Dummies.

00:01:06Got him. Also, in the middle is Laurie Blake. Hello, I'm Switzerland. And at the end, we've

00:01:15got, representing Steiner Math, it's 33 and a third percent of our panel here, it's Luke

00:01:23Owen. Absolutely, and I am for sure going to win this because the maths is on my side.

00:01:27I'm here to represent the fat asses out there in the wrestling promo world. Tremendous.

00:01:33Well, that will be our main event of the afternoon, of course, but before that, we have a full

00:01:40hour of pro-wrestling debate topics to get through first. The way this is going to work,

00:01:46yes. It's like Twitter, but more civilized. The way this is going to work is each of our

00:01:52lovely contestants here has already submitted their picks for five different debate topics.

00:02:00The first of which is going to be the best member of The Shield. Now, the way that this

00:02:07is all going to work, I, of course, am known to be quite an opinionated fellow, but I'm

00:02:11going to park that at the door and I'm going to, as objectively as humanly possible, just

00:02:17look at each of your arguments, see who makes the best points, who maybe takes the other

00:02:23person's points down a peg and reveals more truth to the matter. That being said, once

00:02:30the winner of a round has been determined, they will receive one point.

00:02:35One point.

00:02:36One point, and whoever has the most points at the end of five rounds will be declared

00:02:41the winner of the day. So, let's get underway with our first debate topic, shall we? It

00:02:47was the title of this video, it was what was on the thumbnail, the best member of The Shield.

00:02:54They're doing the pose.

00:02:56Triple powerbomb.

00:02:57Oh, god.

00:02:58Not through this table, it was really, it was expensive.

00:03:02I think we'd break your back as well.

00:03:04Yeah, it's because Triple H was on camera doing this.

00:03:06It's a Japanese table, this. I am the table. I don't know, what's going on over here?

00:03:11There's a bit in, what pay-per-view is it?

00:03:13It was the lead-up to whenever they did the second six-man tag with Evolution.

00:03:18Payback.

00:03:19Yeah, and they're doing the pose. Well, they're, like, Shield are in the ring and

00:03:22they'll be, like, all intimidating and stuff, and Evolution are backing up the ramp,

00:03:25but they're not doing the fist bump pose. So, Triple H starts walking forward and below

00:03:29camera starts doing this, to tell guys to do this, and Roman Clarkson's like...

00:03:36He's doing it for ages, though.

00:03:38And then Roman goes like, oh, yeah.

00:03:42It's like that, the insults from friends.

00:03:44Yeah, yeah, it's inverted.

00:03:48With that being said, let's start at this end of the table.

00:03:52Oli, who is your choice?

00:03:56Please come prepared.

00:03:57He's got notes.

00:03:59My choice for the best member of the Shield is Dean Ambrose.

00:04:04We all forget, because we all like Roman Reigns now, and Seth Rollins is okay, I guess,

00:04:09that Dean Ambrose was all our favourite in the early days of the Shield.

00:04:13He was the US Champion, even though he didn't really ever defend it.

00:04:16We thought he was going to be the one who turned heel,

00:04:18and turned into the breakout star who wasn't Roman.

00:04:21Seth was the one who was going to go by the wayside.

00:04:24He had the best promos. We wanted him to win all the matches.

00:04:27But then he didn't, but he was still the emotional heart of that feud.

00:04:32Him going against Seth.

00:04:33He was the emotional part, and Seth and Roman had the superficial high spot moments.

00:04:38Dean comes out of that, and he becomes the most hard-working wrestler,

00:04:43not just in the company, but in the world.

00:04:46In 2015, he wrestled 218 times.

00:04:51In 2016, he wrestled 204 times.

00:04:55That's the most of anyone in the world, and that second year

00:04:58was him building that new brand split SmackDown roster,

00:05:02where he won the money in the bank, where,

00:05:05might I add, that's the closest we've come to a Shield triple threat,

00:05:10where they all wrestled on the same night.

00:05:17But who ended that night?

00:05:19It was Dean Ambrose, with the championship, and he built SmackDown afterwards.

00:05:24And then, I don't know if you know this,

00:05:26Dean Ambrose is the same guy as Jon Moxley.

00:05:31It's like two for the price of one.

00:05:33Because the other Shield members, they've always been WWE Seth Rollins.

00:05:38They've always been WWE Roman Reigns.

00:05:40Jon Moxley goes to AEW, he's the only three time ever world champion,

00:05:46and one of those was in maybe four times, if you include an interim.

00:05:49He has seen Rocky IV.

00:05:52He has come through for that company time and time again,

00:05:56when other people got injured who haven't seen Rocky IV,

00:05:59and he has brought them through.

00:06:01And he's not just a wrestler.

00:06:03He's an inspiration.

00:06:05Because he checked himself into rehab because he recognised his own alcoholism.

00:06:12Not how I thought we were going to end that portion, but a fitting start.

00:06:18Laurie, your choice.

00:06:20My choice is Seth freaking Rollins.

00:06:25The viper amongst the Shield.

00:06:26The person waiting to strike at a moment's notice.

00:06:30Seth is the one who is clearly the most talented in the ring by a long, long way.

00:06:34Seth is the one who has been burdened with, well, not burdened with necessarily,

00:06:38because actually what's happened is every single gimmick he's tried has fit.

00:06:42This man is a wrestling chameleon.

00:06:44This man can get over stuff like nobody's business.

00:06:47Not only that, but he is somebody who elevates the company

00:06:50and everyone else he's in the ring with.

00:06:51He is someone who can drag a good match out of everybody.

00:06:54His work rate is absolutely insane, putting the company on his back.

00:07:00To the detriment of his back multiple times.

00:07:03Seth Rollins is the guy that you can just trust to do this.

00:07:05He's the guy that WWE clearly saw to be the next one.

00:07:09He's somebody who has run with every single thing they've given him.

00:07:13Roman, how many things has Roman had to run with and failed to get over?

00:07:17Dean failed to get over multiple things in WWE

00:07:20and Seth has landed, stuck the landing on multiple occasions.

00:07:26Very strong.

00:07:28Luke, round us out.

00:07:29Who could it possibly be?

00:07:31It's Kurt Angle.

00:07:33Well, obviously it's Triple H. He's the guy who's running the ship now.

00:07:38My choice is Roman Reigns.

00:07:41When The Shield started, the whole point of The Shield was to create three stars,

00:07:45three breakout stars.

00:07:47And while it can be argued that Seth Rollins has done a very good job

00:07:51of being a top guy for a brand,

00:07:53and Jon Moxley has been a top guy for a secondary promotion

00:07:59in terms of the grander, in terms of the overall popularity of wrestling,

00:08:04the number two promotion.

00:08:05He's been a top guy there and he's done very well for New Japan.

00:08:08There is only one guy who has been the top star

00:08:13of not only the biggest wrestling promotion in the world,

00:08:17but all of professional wrestling.

00:08:21And Oli's point was that we all liked Dean and that is true.

00:08:25We all did like him.

00:08:26We all really liked Seth as well, but let's not forget that Royal Rumble

00:08:30when we really wanted Roman Reigns to win

00:08:32because we saw him as the potential future top guy of this.

00:08:36It is not WWE.

00:08:37It's not Roman Reigns as well.

00:08:38WWE did a bad job of it.

00:08:41It's actually a credit to Roman Reigns,

00:08:42how he took everything that worked against him by creative

00:08:48and has turned into, and I hate to use this word, generational run.

00:08:53A generational world championship run.

00:08:56A generational WrestleMania record.

00:09:00A generational gimmick and group and faction and character

00:09:06that has dominated and really has seen WWE go from strength to strength

00:09:10to strength to strength.

00:09:11He is the most reliable guy within this company

00:09:15that even when he only wrestles a handful of times a year,

00:09:18you can always guarantee that the ratings go up and interest skyrockets.

00:09:26Well, we've had the introductory arguments of all three of our competitors here.

00:09:32A lot of good points made, I think,

00:09:34but I want to give you all a chance to challenge one another

00:09:38on maybe some things that I don't know if everyone on the panel would agree with

00:09:43that were said.

00:09:45I'm going to start back around with Oli, though.

00:09:50You talked a lot about Dean Ambrose, and that's fair.

00:09:52Dean Ambrose is the one in the vest,

00:09:54but maybe wanted to give you a little bit of a chance

00:09:58just to put over Jon Moxley

00:10:02because perhaps he's the one that has had a better run,

00:10:06whereas Dean Ambrose was maybe lesser than or such.

00:10:11Good point. Jon Moxley wasn't actually in the shield.

00:10:14Jon Moxley, by name, was not in the shield.

00:10:16You even said yourself they're different people.

00:10:18No, no, no. I said not many people know this.

00:10:21They're the same person, like Kevin Owens and El Generico.

00:10:25I would say that Jon Moxley in AEW has been integral to that company's growth and foundation.

00:10:34If you remove Roman Reigns, sorry, Roman Reigns, or Seth Rollins,

00:10:39Don't point to me.

00:10:40I'm going to point to you.

00:10:41If you remove either of those from WWE, WWE just continues upwards.

00:10:46Yeah, Roman's been behind a lot of the recent upswing,

00:10:49but is that actually Paul Levesque's new creative direction?

00:10:52Is that actually the Rock?

00:10:53Is that actually Cody Rhodes?

00:10:54If Jon Moxley isn't in AEW from Double or Nothing 2019,

00:10:59that promotion doesn't follow the same trajectory in those initial years.

00:11:04And he's the champion going into the pandemic.

00:11:07That could have been a death spiral for that company, yet he spearheaded them forward.

00:11:11Jon Moxley also in-ring wise, because I sort of just spoke,

00:11:14I did the Miz style where I just listed off,

00:11:17I've won this championship and this championship,

00:11:20I've won this championship and this championship.

00:11:22And I did these things out in the ring.

00:11:24In-ring, he's totally transformed himself from this lunatic fringe in WWE

00:11:29to someone who I'm genuinely afraid to be near.

00:11:34He's got the totally different look.

00:11:36He's always bleeding.

00:11:38And he dishes out violence as he's a founding member of the Blackpool Combat Club

00:11:43in a way that is totally unique to him.

00:11:46And in a way that has transcended national boundaries

00:11:51by going over to New Japan and just fitting in seamlessly there.

00:11:54As of the other month, he was the IWGP Heavyweight Champion.

00:11:57He's wrestled in the G1.

00:11:59He's had some of the best matches with Ishii and Suzuki.

00:12:02Can't say that for these two losers.

00:12:05Any rebuttal to that?

00:12:08I think there is a lot of people who can be given credits to

00:12:11for the rise of AEW in its early days.

00:12:15Jericho is someone who could certainly say he is key to the success there.

00:12:19But I do think that Moxley has had an incredible impact on All Elite Wrestling.

00:12:25I don't think that can be denied.

00:12:27And I do think that his work has been exceptional outside of the ring.

00:12:32But perhaps what people might point to is like,

00:12:34well, what's been the classic Moxley feud that he's had in that AEW run?

00:12:40I could think of some that I might be able to present.

00:12:44But are they going to be as remembered in 10 years time as say,

00:12:49oh, I don't know, the Tribal Chief Roman Reigns?

00:12:53John Moxley's a bleeder as well.

00:12:55He's a big bleeder.

00:12:56He loves to bleed, loves to cause violence.

00:12:58It's cheap.

00:12:59It's easy.

00:13:01Gets a pop, doesn't it?

00:13:02It's just playing.

00:13:03It's just pandering to the audience.

00:13:05Don't pander to the audience.

00:13:07I live by that.

00:13:07Do you want to do another running dive outside, Seth Rollins?

00:13:10Do you want to just bump through a table, do you, John?

00:13:12It's an easy night at the office, I guess.

00:13:16We'll turn our attention a little bit to Roman Reigns, I think,

00:13:19because at this point, probably, inarguably the biggest star amongst them all,

00:13:25having just main evented WrestleMania and such.

00:13:28But I want to give Luke a chance to look back on the times before the Tribal Chief,

00:13:37the times where Roman Reigns was not looked at as a success,

00:13:42and ask how you can look at those times and still take them into consideration

00:13:48when determining a full body of work and who would be considered the best member of The Shield.

00:13:53So I think those two kind of go hand in hand with one another.

00:13:56Without those bad years, the Suffering Succotash years,

00:14:00without those creative flaws that came from a very, very bad creative mind,

00:14:06without those, you do not get what we have now.

00:14:09So you can look back on it with the benefit of hindsight to be like,

00:14:11maybe those 10 years were worth it because we got what was incredible

00:14:14coming out the back end of it here.

00:14:16And there was some other good stuff in WWE, but I think even within those 10 years,

00:14:20or however long it was that he was just sort of like the boring lad that was on top all the time,

00:14:25seven, eight years, whatever you want to say,

00:14:28is there was always this comment that we used to get a lot on like the podcast

00:14:32and we used to do reviews of these shows as well is,

00:14:35ah yeah, but he's a really good wrestler though.

00:14:37And he would always have these matches.

00:14:39Like I look back at the Braun Strowman fuse,

00:14:41which always had like these great, incredible matches.

00:14:43That first Brock match at WrestleMania is a genuinely really good match.

00:14:47So even when he was burning, burning, burning,

00:14:51boring Roman Reigns, I'm in my flak vest and I've got my protective gear on me

00:14:55because I'm apparently a weak person.

00:14:57He was having great matches.

00:14:59He was given those opportunities to have those great matches

00:15:02and always delivered in those moments.

00:15:04He overcame bad creative and then used that bad creative to create this new role we're on now.

00:15:12Any thoughts on the rest of the panel?

00:15:14Seven to eight years is that what's wrong with wrestling?

00:15:17That we sit there and we go, no, no,

00:15:19seven to eight years of it being absolute dog shit was fine

00:15:23because we got one good thing at the end of that.

00:15:26And that good thing also then went on for ever so slightly too long.

00:15:29Didn't it?

00:15:30That good thing, there was a little bit of that good thing,

00:15:32but it was about a year of it where we were just trapped in water.

00:15:36But did we all love WrestleMania 40?

00:15:38No, not all of us did.

00:15:40It was all worth it in the end.

00:15:45Seven to eight years to be like, do you know what?

00:15:47That was, it was all worth it.

00:15:48What are we all?

00:15:49We're suddenly all fucking Zen monks, aren't we?

00:15:52No, no, I found Nirvana.

00:15:54It was fine.

00:15:54Waiting for Roman Reigns to turn into the tribal chief.

00:15:58I will watch 30 of those Jey Uso matches if it means I get that WrestleMania match.

00:16:03I think six years, recency bias, which he uses an argument a lot,

00:16:08six years of really bad Roman Reigns stuff.

00:16:11And yeah, he's a victim of circumstance and a lot of that,

00:16:14because he's definitely proved afterwards he's a great creative mind.

00:16:18He's a great presence and he carries himself like a top star.

00:16:20But those were dark, dark times.

00:16:24Like, I don't care.

00:16:25Oh, it was really good in the ring.

00:16:26I don't care about that if everything else around it sucks.

00:16:29But that's not his fault.

00:16:30To that point, Dean wasn't all that great in those times either.

00:16:33So what did he do?

00:16:34He left and he did it better elsewhere.

00:16:36And what did Roman do?

00:16:37Roman made it better himself.

00:16:39Well, this is the other thing.

00:16:42I think, and this is unpopular, Roman, I do love, put this out there first,

00:16:48but Roman is made interesting by the people around him.

00:16:52He is early Thor in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

00:16:56He needs a Jey Uso.

00:16:58He needs a Sami Zayn.

00:16:59He needs a Solo.

00:17:00He needs a Paul Heyman.

00:17:01He's not someone actually, when you put him by himself, is that engaging.

00:17:06Because when he doesn't have those other bits of conflict around him,

00:17:08you get those long eight-month stretches of that bloodline story,

00:17:12which were totally not compelling.

00:17:14But I think that actually works against your arguments,

00:17:17because you're saying then that he's only interesting because of the people around him.

00:17:19And then your point you make was when he's not there, that story is not interesting.

00:17:22That reason why is he is the interesting person there.

00:17:25No, no, I'm saying when other people aren't there.

00:17:27Like when he's just treading water, like Laurie said in parts of this feud,

00:17:30where it's just, oh yeah, we're going to do a Jey Uso thing.

00:17:33Yeah, we're going to do the Jimmy Uso thing again.

00:17:34It's not interesting.

00:17:35I think that's the other people's fault.

00:17:36That is not a Roman problem.

00:17:38That is a Jimmy Uso problem.

00:17:39That is a Jey Uso problem.

00:17:41That is a Solo Sokoa problem.

00:17:42That is not a Roman Reigns problem.

00:17:45I think that's an interesting debate to have within this topic.

00:17:48But I want to take an extra little bit of time here to look at Seth Rollins.

00:17:53I'm not taking any further questions actually.

00:17:55I thought you got away with it.

00:17:56I'm not taking any further questions.

00:18:00Man, you're a hero.

00:18:01I rest my case.

00:18:02Every gimmick you've done has been good.

00:18:04This is a man who can come out looking like a jelly baby and it works.

00:18:07Like he can wear those weird red boots and it works.

00:18:11I will simply pose the question that whereas you had on one hand Roman Reigns,

00:18:18the top star of WWE, Jon Moxley in a lot of ways,

00:18:23maybe the top star of AEW, certainly one of them,

00:18:26there is potentially an argument to be made that Seth Rollins, while great in the ring,

00:18:32hasn't ever been the guy within WWE themselves and within the brand.

00:18:38He's always sort of been looked at as number two compared to what's going on.

00:18:41How does that help or hinder your argument, Laurie, do you reckon?

00:18:44Well, I think that actually helps my argument immensely because

00:18:48not being the top guy means that you are working harder.

00:18:51Generally speaking, to stand out,

00:18:53which means that Seth Rollins' star ratings for his matches

00:18:55were probably higher than both these guys put together.

00:18:57Seth Rollins continually turns up and works harder than anybody else.

00:19:01I think the other thing is Seth Rollins is what he's been trusted to do in WWE.

00:19:05And I think that's a very major thing.

00:19:07Every time they've needed somebody to step into a championship

00:19:10at the last minute, be it the Universal title,

00:19:13be it the World Heavyweight Championship, Seth Rollins is the pick.

00:19:17He is the guy to take something, turn up every week, importantly,

00:19:23and be kind of one of the showcase athletes that they have on the brand.

00:19:27Roman, they made really special.

00:19:29But look at the machinery move around him.

00:19:32Look at the amount of effort they have put into Roman Reigns over the years.

00:19:36The amount of people.

00:19:37He's got like five hangers on.

00:19:39He's got Paul Heyman.

00:19:40Paul fucking Heyman coming out and saying stuff for him.

00:19:43Seth Rollins is doing this on his own in terms of like,

00:19:47yeah, he's getting given good chances.

00:19:48But yeah, like you said, he's not the top guy in the company.

00:19:51He's not being presented necessarily as such.

00:19:53And yet people are still excited to see Seth Rollins wrestle week in and week out.

00:19:58To Laurie's points, that World Heavyweight Championship needed a good hand

00:20:04to really make sure that it felt like it was a prize that people wanted to win.

00:20:08I think giving it to Seth Rollins was such a smart move

00:20:10because he was the top guy of a brand.

00:20:13That that belt was assigned to.

00:20:14And he did a really good job of making that belt feel like it was important.

00:20:17And he worked very hard to make it feel important.

00:20:20Perhaps a harder thing to be given then is giving a world title

00:20:23that people thought had a really naff name and a really bad design.

00:20:26And Roman was given that.

00:20:27And he actually made that belt the most important belt within WWE.

00:20:32Can I just go back to my notes that I've prepared?

00:20:34If we're just going on Laurie's point of like, who's the hardest working?

00:20:38It's categorically Dean Ambrose in the 2015-2016 years.

00:20:43It's a fact.

00:20:45It's on Cage Match.

00:20:47He also said I think he regrets a lot of that.

00:20:51Well, we're not debating.

00:20:53Does Dean regret it?

00:20:54And also, what's it like?

00:20:56Is it quantity or is it quality?

00:20:59I think there's a balance to be struck between the two.

00:21:01And maybe Seth is the guy striking that balance.

00:21:03I'm all about the quality.

00:21:05He's definitely not offering it quantity, is he?

00:21:07I'm all about quantity, it's all quality though.

00:21:10And what's working harder at the end of the day?

00:21:12Is it staying in your job where you're beloved by Triple H and your bosses and stuff?

00:21:17Or is it going out and paving your own way?

00:21:20Betting on yourself.

00:21:21And you know what?

00:21:22You know what?

00:21:23Japanese wrestling is really cool.

00:21:25It just might be.

00:21:27And you know what he did?

00:21:28He went out there and did some Japanese.

00:21:29You don't need to curry favour with the host.

00:21:33It may work in your favour.

00:21:3510% he was going to be objective.

00:21:37As subjectively objective as possible.

00:21:39As possible being the author of words.

00:21:42I think we have hit most all of these points.

00:21:47A quick sum up, conclusion to each of y'all.

00:21:53Kind of just hit home what you think is your tagline, your elevator pitch as to why your

00:21:59guy is the best member of the Shield.

00:22:00Oli, we'll start with you.

00:22:02Dean Ambrose was the hardest working member of the Shield.

00:22:05Originally, he was all our favourite member of the Shield.

00:22:08He was creatively stifled in WWE and he bet on himself.

00:22:13He left and he helped create a whole new company of which he was a fundamental part of building

00:22:18it.

00:22:18And then he went over to Japan and won their top championship too.

00:22:23And he's a stand-up bloke.

00:22:25Laurie?

00:22:25Ah, it's just facts, isn't it?

00:22:27It's just not this guy.

00:22:29It's not this guy.

00:22:30It's the guy in the middle.

00:22:33Luke, you can be the top star of a brand.

00:22:36You can be the top star of a promotion.

00:22:39But there is only one top star of all of wrestling.

00:22:43A genuine mainstream breakout guy.

00:22:46And that is Roman Reigns.

00:22:48I thought you were going to acknowledge him.

00:22:52Not that much.

00:22:53That's a different faction.

00:22:55Well, that'll bring our first round here to a close.

00:23:00I think very good arguments have been made all the way around.

00:23:03And really, what makes this show fun is I don't think there is a wrong answer to all of this.

00:23:10No, there isn't a wrong answer.

00:23:14There's not a wrong answer.

00:23:15Who's got the biggest hat?

00:23:16Who's got the biggest coat?

00:23:17It's Seth Rollins.

00:23:18Yeah, doesn't it mean Jamiroquai has the best arms of the 90s?

00:23:21I think it does actually.

00:23:23Yeah, exactly.

00:23:23And before that, it was Boy George.

00:23:26But importantly as well, it doesn't just come down to

00:23:30what is, you know, the correct answer, but it's also the strongest arguments to be made.

00:23:37Thus, this was a very difficult decision to be made.

00:23:41But I'm going to give the first point of this here Gripe Bomb show to Oli.

00:23:47Sublime!

00:23:50Do you know what?

00:23:50You can be objectively wrong as well.

00:23:52You can be objectively wrong, it turns out.

00:23:54Yeah.

00:23:55Japanese wrestling.

00:23:56Yeah.

00:23:57Honestly, that didn't have as much to do with it.

00:23:58Oh, the little NJPW suck up.

00:24:00Yeah, oh, he put little sticks in his head, did he?

00:24:04Five stars.

00:24:04Bleed, bleed, bleed, is it?

00:24:06Oh.

00:24:10Shall we all try and do it together?

00:24:13Oh, that's a horrible noise.

00:24:15Enough of this.

00:24:16Enough of this, we need to move on.

00:24:18But yes.

00:24:19Whitney's sick in his mouth.

00:24:22Awful noise.

00:24:23Whitney, we've got the shield at home.

00:24:26Don't do it again.

00:24:29But yes, I thought everybody made very good points.

00:24:31Very good arguments for your guy.

00:24:33I think there are arguments to be made for each of them.

00:24:36But I do think better points were made in opposition of the other two

00:24:43than were made against Dean Ambrose slash Jon Moxley

00:24:47that eventually put it across the finish line.

00:24:49That being said, let's move on to our second round here.

00:24:54You may have seen it in our list right here on Parts Fun Known this past weekend.

00:24:59You may have seen it over on the WrestleTalk Podcast channel

00:25:02where we polled not only all the members on this table

00:25:05but many of the extended universe here in the WrestleTalk and Parts Fun Known family.

00:25:10What is the best match of 2024 so far?

00:25:15We've just passed the halfway point of the year.

00:25:17We're in the back half.

00:25:19Maybe we'll have different answers by the time we reach December.

00:25:21But so far from January to June, what's been the best match of 2024 thus far?

00:25:28We're going to start with Laurie this time.

00:25:30That's interesting because some people might say things like

00:25:33Will Ospreay versus Bryan Danielson.

00:25:35I don't know who's picked that one.

00:25:36How do you know my pick?

00:25:37I'm just guessing there's a pick there for that one.

00:25:39Some people might say it might be Cody versus Roman Reigns.

00:25:43But I'm going to say that the best match of 2024 so far is Ricochet versus Ilija Dragunov.

00:25:49And I'm going to tell you why.

00:25:50Because it's very easy to turn up and main event

00:25:53WrestleMania and have the best match of your career because that's when you think you should do it.

00:25:58When you're just debuting for a new company and you're against Bryan Danielson, of all people.

00:26:03Yes, of course, you should have put on a banging match.

00:26:06But when you just turn up on a Raw for the first round match of a tournament,

00:26:10you're not even going to bloody win.

00:26:12And you have a stellar, knock it out of the park, 10 to 15 minute match.

00:26:18That is incredible.

00:26:20Ricochet's not even going to be in the company anymore.

00:26:22He was on the way out and he was like, do you know what?

00:26:24One last one.

00:26:25I'm just going to do something absolutely incredible.

00:26:27Ilija Dragunov and Ricochet are also two people who were just,

00:26:31they've just been passed over again and again and again.

00:26:33And there was every opportunity to go into this exact match and just do it really lame.

00:26:44It's just another day on the job.

00:26:45But they didn't.

00:26:46They turned up.

00:26:47They tried to make this match feel important.

00:26:50They tried to put each other over as best they could.

00:26:53And they did a damn good job of it.

00:26:54And the other thing that I think is important about this match is they took

00:26:58on board the fact that what you have to do in this match is get over this tournament.

00:27:02This tournament that people aren't, they're not even that bothered by, you know?

00:27:06Like, it's a tournament that's going to, what, finish at Saudi.

00:27:08It's going to, nobody necessarily cares about King of the Ring.

00:27:12It's not really been a thing forever.

00:27:14But they treated it like it meant the damn world.

00:27:17And that is good wrestling.

00:27:21I will say that while this match is the only one that didn't feature on our list of

00:27:27matches on Parts of Unknown, it is the one I was saddest to see not on the list.

00:27:32Yeah.

00:27:32You just couldn't fit it on.

00:27:34But subjectively, might be my favorite of the ones to be discussed here.

00:27:40Not putting any favoritism points on any one particular person.

00:27:44But Luke, let's go to you next.

00:27:46We can do that, Tempest.

00:27:47We can just say it's objective.

00:27:49We can do that.

00:27:49We can just say it.

00:27:50You can just give it to me and then say it's objective.

00:27:53No one will know.

00:27:55Maybe I will.

00:27:56Luke?

00:27:58It can be easy if you have the best wrestler in the world versus the best wrestler in the world

00:28:03and they have the best wrestling match in the world.

00:28:06That is, it's a potentially, it's a very easy thing to accomplish.

00:28:09It's also a very easy thing to have two very, very good wrestlers in a tournament

00:28:15and kind of surprise people.

00:28:17And that's become one of people's favorite matches.

00:28:20And I really like that as a choice, actually.

00:28:22Because it kind of piggybacks into the choice that I have for my pick,

00:28:27which is Bayley versus Io Sky from WrestleMania.

00:28:30And the reason why I have gone for this match

00:28:34is that these two had everything working against them going into this match.

00:28:39The Damage Control storyline had the potential to be a very, very good story.

00:28:43And it could have been told.

00:28:44Bayley winning the Royal Rumble.

00:28:46Damage Control, Io Sky kind of bringing in new people outside of her remit.

00:28:50The former leader kicking the leader out.

00:28:52And then these two, the new leader going up against the old leader.

00:28:55It's a very, very simple story to tell.

00:28:57And WWE did not do a very good job of telling that story.

00:29:01They did not do a good enough job in making Bayley captivating enough,

00:29:04in making Io Sky captivating enough as a heel present and as a world champion.

00:29:10So when they came out of WrestleMania and they have their spectacular entrances

00:29:13and then had the incredible match that they did,

00:29:16it kind of null and void all of the bad creative.

00:29:19It reminds me of Sasha versus Bianca at WrestleMania.

00:29:23A match that had terrible creative going into it.

00:29:27But when the match was so good at the end of it,

00:29:29no one ever talks about the creative now.

00:29:31No one ever talks about Reginald.

00:29:32No one ever talks about him being a sommelier.

00:29:34What they a sommelier more like.

00:29:36What they talk about is the incredible match at WrestleMania.

00:29:40And for my money, if you remove all the Gugu, the Gaga, the Pyro and the Ballyhoo

00:29:49from the Bloodline and Cody Rhodes stuff at WrestleMania,

00:29:53this is the best match of WrestleMania weekend.

00:29:57Very bold, very bold.

00:30:00And indeed, we will finish off with Oli, who has already said what his is.

00:30:06But take it away, champ.

00:30:08Yeah, it's weird to be in this position.

00:30:10I've chosen Will Ospreay versus Bryan Danielson at AEW Dynasty.

00:30:13That's like saying you support Man United.

00:30:16When you're a kid, you live in South London, mate.

00:30:18Yeah.

00:30:18Support Man United.

00:30:21I think a lot of the argument against this match being the best match of the year so far is,

00:30:26oh what, you've just got a chosen the best match of the year so far,

00:30:30with the best two wrestlers in the world right now?

00:30:34It's not your favourite match of the year.

00:30:36So let me just recap how great this match is.

00:30:38First off, story-wise, you don't really need much of a story because it's already built

00:30:42in there for you.

00:30:43AEW takes a more sports-based approach to their storytelling.

00:30:47And this is very simple.

00:30:48It's Bryan Danielson, one of the best wrestlers of all time.

00:30:52But he's getting older.

00:30:53This is the last full-time year of his career.

00:30:56Up against the new young upstart, the hottest new signing for AEW, Will Ospreay.

00:31:02He is also the best wrestler in the world.

00:31:04And he is a little bit younger.

00:31:07And in this match, which is just absolutely fantastic of going back and forth, reversal,

00:31:12submissions.

00:31:13It starts off with Danielson a bit cocky in his way.

00:31:17But then Ospreay gets the better of him every now and then.

00:31:21And Danielson just starts to look a bit more stern, a bit more serious each time.

00:31:25Then, at the end, it comes down to who is just that little bit quicker.

00:31:31It's Danielson in one corner, doing his Yes Chance.

00:31:34He's preparing the knee.

00:31:35It's Ospreay in the other corner.

00:31:37He's preparing the hidden blade.

00:31:42And it is a pure joust.

00:31:44The fastest wins.

00:31:46And Ospreay, because he's that little bit younger, was that little bit faster.

00:31:50He hits Danielson.

00:31:52Age was really Danielson's true enemy here.

00:31:55And then Ospreay hits the Tiger Driver, and then hits another hidden blade to win.

00:32:00And you think, oh well, that's great.

00:32:02It's the two best wrestlers in the world executing a perfectly done wrestling match

00:32:06with this awesome Bryan Danielson story over his replacement finally beating him.

00:32:13But actually, you're not left with that.

00:32:15You're left with Ospreay feeling remorse over what he's just done to Danielson.

00:32:20He hit the Tiger Driver, and that has made Danielson's neck spasm, and his career

00:32:25could be over.

00:32:25Yeah, granted, three weeks later, he comes back and he's in a hardcore match.

00:32:28But in that moment, it felt like Ospreay had become the best wrestler in the world.

00:32:34But at what cost?

00:32:50I have a very difficult task ahead of me, because these are genuinely three of my favorite

00:33:01matches of the year so far.

00:33:06However, I think it is curious that both of our other contestants would look at a match

00:33:14like Bryan Danielson and Will Ospreay, and sort of try and say that it is perhaps easy

00:33:21to have a best match when it is two wrestlers of that caliber.

00:33:26I would like to give both Luke and Laurie a chance to explain why that would be a detraction

00:33:32from it.

00:33:34I'm not saying it's a detraction, because I think-

00:33:36No, I'm telling you to detract from it to make your argument stronger.

00:33:39I'm going to get to that, because I think, objectively speaking, and I even think subjectively

00:33:44speaking, that is the best match of the year.

00:33:47I think Bryan Danielson versus Will Ospreay is the best match of 2024, but it was always

00:33:52going to be the best match of 2024, which is why I think Io Sky versus Bayley is better,

00:33:59because it had things working against it, and yet it came out being so much better than

00:34:05many people thought it was going to be.

00:34:08So if you have this over here, if you have a Michelin star meal, of course it's delicious,

00:34:13but if you go to Maccy D's and then you get a meal and you're like,

00:34:17God damn, that was actually a really good Maccy D's.

00:34:19That's the meal you're going to remember, because over here, oh, that was just another

00:34:23five star meal that I've had.

00:34:25Well, also, five star meal, you have five star expectations.

00:34:28You also perhaps add some points to the thing, because you are expecting it to be five star.

00:34:35People wanted Danielson and Ospreay to be the best match of the year.

00:34:39They wanted it.

00:34:40So maybe there's a bit of kind of a biased buy-in from a viewer watching it, because

00:34:45it's fucking long.

00:34:46It's a long ass match, and it feels long at points.

00:34:50Oh, I don't know about that.

00:34:50It feels long at points, comparatively to what is a short throwaway match that people

00:34:56thought was going to be an absolute nothing, for a nothing tournament in a sort of dead

00:35:02zone of WWE post-WrestleMania, right?

00:35:05And yet, Ilja and Ricochet come out, they absolutely smash it out the park, and they

00:35:11get buy-in from an audience for a thing that nobody was expecting to be good, nobody really

00:35:16cared about.

00:35:17And yet, they kind of, they took the audience in the palms of their hand and made them care

00:35:22about this, what was really a throwaway match.

00:35:26People were more into this than they probably were at many of the points of England and

00:35:29the World Cup so far.

00:35:30No one went into WrestleMania thinking that Bayley versus Io Sky would be the best match

00:35:35of the weekend.

00:35:36And you know what?

00:35:36No one said that afterwards, either.

00:35:37And nobody came out saying it either.

00:35:39And no, what people came out saying was, like, that is so much better than I thought it was

00:35:44going to be.

00:35:45And you remove, again, all of the run-ins and the Undertakers and the Rocks and the

00:35:51bilidulidu, it's the best match of the weekend.

00:35:54Everyone went into Duck Dynasty knowing that was going to be the best match.

00:35:59You remove The Rock, you remove Undertaker, you remove John Cena.

00:36:03Gunther versus Sami Zayn is the better match of the weekend.

00:36:06Strong disagree, because a lot of people wanted that to be Chad Gable going into it.

00:36:10So that had things working against it.

00:36:11You just said that Bayley versus Io Sky had the whole creative storyline working against

00:36:16it.

00:36:16And they overcame.

00:36:17I think Sami and Gunther overcame people wanting it to be Chad Gable, but not to the

00:36:21degree.

00:36:21Because in that match, I don't think that Sami Zayn flipped out of the rose plants.

00:36:25In which case, you know, that's why the Bayley-Io Sky match is a five star match.

00:36:28No, but you just defeated the longest undefeated streak in decades in WWE.

00:36:34Also pretty good.

00:36:37This isn't a match of what is better of those two.

00:36:40But you keep saying that it's the best one of the weekend if people weren't so distracted

00:36:45by this whole Roman codey thing.

00:36:47As you can see, both Oli and Luke have lost the threads of their argument.

00:36:50My argument has remained solid that Ricochet versus Ilja Dragunov is the best match of

00:36:54the year so far.

00:36:55Let me bring my argument back to answer your point, and that is one around expectations.

00:36:59Because yes, Danielson vs Ospreay.

00:37:02Everyone.

00:37:02It's a dream match.

00:37:04It's the dreamiest of dream match.

00:37:06All dream boys.

00:37:07And the expectations were incredibly high for it.

00:37:11That doesn't mean you can coast.

00:37:13That just means the expectations, you've got to go and meet them and, ideally, surpass

00:37:19them.

00:37:19Because whenever we watch these sorts of dream matches, if they are just as good as you expect

00:37:24them to be, it's not that impressive.

00:37:28But what they went out and did is put on a match that was so much better and so more

00:37:34layered in character and emotion that I could even have dreamed, because they're the professionals

00:37:42here.

00:37:42But that's why it's so much better than what you're giving it credit for.

00:37:47Everything you've just said then, if you just replace the words Brian Danielson vs

00:37:51Ospreay with Bailey Neosky, that's the argument that I've also made for my match.

00:37:54Yeah, but one is...

00:37:55Okay, well, one is six and a half stars on the Meltzer scale.

00:37:59Of course it was going to, though.

00:38:01That's one guy's opinion.

00:38:02On cage match, it is ranked as the highest rated North American match of all time.

00:38:08All the other 11 are Japanese.

00:38:12And that is 9.69 rating.

00:38:14So this year, if you just go by objective data gathering, which is the cage side seats,

00:38:21you know, audience rating matches, it's the best match ever.

00:38:25So now we trust, we also trust Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes nowadays, do we?

00:38:31I guess those Transformers movies are the best movies.

00:38:34Exactly.

00:38:35And I guess the game that you dislike must be bad because of gamer game.

00:38:39Of course, absolutely.

00:38:41But you both said that it is a great match as well.

00:38:43I'm not disagreeing.

00:38:44It's a fine match.

00:38:45I disagree.

00:38:46I think it is the best match of the year.

00:38:47I truly do think that it is.

00:38:49I feel like a new Gaslight.

00:38:51I'm not Gaslighting you because I agree.

00:38:52I do think it is the best match of the year.

00:38:53But it was always going to be.

00:38:55This, in my pick, this was not supposed to be.

00:38:58And yet it's ended up on so many people's list of the best match of the year.

00:39:02I've not seen it anywhere.

00:39:03It's on our list.

00:39:04Not seen it anywhere but there.

00:39:05It was in the parts for a known list.

00:39:07I think if that's, it's a different question.

00:39:10It's what's your favourite match of the year otherwise.

00:39:12It's not even my favourite match of the year.

00:39:13Well, why on earth have you picked it?

00:39:15I had to pick a different one to use for starters.

00:39:17I ask you, what is a wrestling match?

00:39:19Is a wrestling match going out there on the biggest show

00:39:23against the biggest guy ever and doing a really good job?

00:39:26Because in that case, yes, it is.

00:39:27Or it's wrestling turning up and doing a job even when you don't want to.

00:39:31Even when you're hurting.

00:39:32Even when it's in a blooming community centre somewhere.

00:39:36Is that what wrestling is?

00:39:37Because if that's the case, then the best wrestling match of the year

00:39:41is Ilya Dragunov versus Ricochet.

00:39:43Two guys who had no reason to come out and have a match that good.

00:39:46And they just did it anyway because they wanted to.

00:39:49Because they bloody love wrestling.

00:39:50My second choice, by the way, was going to be Will Ospreay versus Michael Oakey.

00:39:54I thought, yeah, I thought you would have picked that.

00:39:56Because again, that was always going to be the best match.

00:39:59So when I went into that match, watching it, I was like, yeah,

00:40:01this match, it's like, it's met all the expectations I wanted to meet.

00:40:04And in some cases, it's actually successful.

00:40:05This is hell.

00:40:06You have told me.

00:40:07I didn't want to return to wrestling content.

00:40:10This is hell.

00:40:10I need a gavel.

00:40:11I need a gavel.

00:40:12I reclaim control of this here debate.

00:40:16I think we've heard the arguments for each match.

00:40:20I think three of the best matches we have seen this year thus far, nonetheless.

00:40:26While I do think that,

00:40:30Laurie, I think you came very close to snatching it.

00:40:34Because I didn't hear any dissenting voices from the rest.

00:40:36It got kind of caught in a debate between two.

00:40:40However, unfortunately, I was told never to do this when I was in seventh grade

00:40:48and making my debates as a class project.

00:40:51But you never acknowledge that the other side is right.

00:40:54And unfortunately, that is what we had here.

00:40:57With Luke saying that Brian Danielson and Will Ospreay was the best match of the year.

00:41:02Well, so Luke's out.

00:41:04But I'm still in, right?

00:41:05Luke's disqualified, but I'm still in.

00:41:10Thus, however, I do think a lot of very good arguments were made for the remaining.

00:41:15But I will be giving the second round to Ollie for Brian Danielson.

00:41:18Outrageous.

00:41:19Sublime!

00:41:19You fucked it for me.

00:41:20I didn't!

00:41:21You've absolutely fucked that for me, because you said it was the best match!

00:41:25It was obviously the best match of the year!

00:41:26I know!

00:41:27We don't say that!

00:41:28I know, but it was!

00:41:30Next time I get a pick first.

00:41:33I got my picks in early.

00:41:36You could have gone for Ospreay-Oakley, though.

00:41:38I think you were there at that show.

00:41:40You could have definitely objectively convinced him.

00:41:43Yeah, well, I didn't need to convince him on that one.

00:41:45We both know that it's the greatest wrestling match I've ever seen live.

00:41:48Why didn't you pick that one?

00:41:49Because this one was a more surprising one!

00:41:53I'm actually more surprised that it ended up higher on my list,

00:41:55because I never expected it to be.

00:41:56The other ones I knew were going to be higher on my list.

00:41:58I'm going to be honest with you guys.

00:41:59I picked the one that was shortest to re-watch.

00:42:02Very good.

00:42:03Can I just give an honourable mention, because everyone else got to pick

00:42:05not the best match of the year in their favourites.

00:42:07Samoa Joe vs Hood.

00:42:09I thought you might have picked that.

00:42:10I was close.

00:42:11I was so good, though, right?

00:42:12But Oli wanted to win.

00:42:13Yeah, I wanted to win.

00:42:15That being said, we'll move on to our third round here.

00:42:19In a similar vein, you may have also seen this on the WrestleTalk Podcast channel.

00:42:24The best wrestler of 2024 so far through the first six months of the year.

00:42:30Luke, we're going to come to you first.

00:42:33Take it away.

00:42:34Thank you.

00:42:35I was waiting for my red light.

00:42:36Tonight it is on to me.

00:42:37Thank you very much, Adam Whitney.

00:42:39Couldn't do any of this without you.

00:42:42Clap him that way.

00:42:44There you go, Whitney.

00:42:46Oh, four.

00:42:48That really threw out the rhythm.

00:42:50I am Kurt Angle in this.

00:42:53I'm in the gang.

00:42:56When it comes to the best wrestler of 2024,

00:43:00you've got to look at a multitude of things.

00:43:01You've got to look at your aura.

00:43:04You have got to look at your interest levels.

00:43:07You're sort of a general public, sort of speaking.

00:43:10You've got to look at the in-ring quality.

00:43:12You've got to look at the promo work.

00:43:14And you've got to look at the character work.

00:43:16And there are a lot of wrestlers that can really fill into those roles.

00:43:20And you kind of like, yeah, they're really good at this one.

00:43:22But maybe this one down here isn't so great.

00:43:24They're really great at this one.

00:43:25But this one is, it's not, it's sort of good.

00:43:28But man, they're kind of lacking in this one.

00:43:29But it's sort of made up for here.

00:43:31There is but one wrestler in my mind that has accomplished all of these.

00:43:36Have pushed everything up to 11.

00:43:38They have taken their sound mixing board and put all of the faders up.

00:43:43And everything is at max.

00:43:45And that man is Drew McIntyre.

00:43:48That is a man who has had aura.

00:43:49Who has had presence.

00:43:50Who has captivated an audience with his incredible character work.

00:43:55This hypocrisy character that he has created.

00:43:57This man who feels like he's been jilted.

00:44:00Rightly so, because he has.

00:44:03While still remaining a heel and doing incredible angles.

00:44:06Angle of CM Punk in Chicago being a key example of this.

00:44:09So he's doing all of this.

00:44:10While also having great matches on TV.

00:44:12And doing great promo work on TV.

00:44:14And on social media as well.

00:44:17Cleverly for Drew McIntyre if I may.

00:44:20There's a lot of arguments about like, they're all taking shots at AEW.

00:44:24Or this and the other.

00:44:24But Drew doesn't do that on TV.

00:44:26Because on TV it doesn't translate well.

00:44:28Punk is doing it a lot.

00:44:29And it's not translating well.

00:44:30Drew knows where to do it.

00:44:32And that is on Twitter.

00:44:34Because people get really riled up about it.

00:44:37So he is very smartly doing it there.

00:44:39Because it gets over more there.

00:44:41And it doesn't detract from the promos that he's doing on TV.

00:44:44So he's accomplishing all of this.

00:44:46While at the same time being the headline act of a show in his home country.

00:44:50Which was so well received.

00:44:53He had a great WrestleMania match with Seth Rollins.

00:44:57May I add as well.

00:44:58A match that could have very easily been overshadowed.

00:45:00Because Rollins was the fourth wheel of a tag team match.

00:45:05He kind of lost his focus on.

00:45:06But Drew made that part of the story.

00:45:08It's on Drew then.

00:45:10He's just had an incredible year.

00:45:12Drew was our Wrestler of the Year in 2020.

00:45:16I think it was.

00:45:17And I think he is on track now to possibly being very high on the list.

00:45:21If not at the top of the list when it comes to 2024.

00:45:26Drew McIntyre.

00:45:28Very good.

00:45:28I love the sign off.

00:45:31Yeah.

00:45:32Very, very, very apt.

00:45:34I haven't done a lot of debate classes in school.

00:45:35We only did it once.

00:45:36And I had to defend them advertising smoking at one show.

00:45:41Well, let's hear it.

00:45:44We'll get Ben back in the room.

00:45:46It makes you look cool.

00:45:47It does make you look cool.

00:45:48You're already breathing in petrol fumes.

00:45:50Absolutely, yeah.

00:45:51Company's got to make money somehow.

00:45:52Yeah.

00:45:53You're selling me.

00:45:54We're going to come back down the table this way.

00:45:57And we're going to go to Laurie next.

00:46:00Okay.

00:46:01There can only be one person who is the best wrestler of 2024.

00:46:04It is the person who has made us believe once again when everyone was doubting.

00:46:09That person is Cody Rhodes.

00:46:11Cody Rhodes has had an incredible year from winning the Royal Rumble.

00:46:15Back to back wins on the Royal Rumble.

00:46:17He's then gone on to main event WrestleMania in two different matches.

00:46:21And also then take up the mantle as the top face of the company.

00:46:26This is a man who this year out baby faced The Rock.

00:46:33That is not something to be joking about.

00:46:35The Rock tried to replace Cody Rhodes at WrestleMania.

00:46:38And people went, nah, mate, we'll have this guy.

00:46:41Thank you very much.

00:46:42People turned on The Rock for Cody.

00:46:45Cody is on an incredible run.

00:46:46And I don't want to have to say this because I am not the biggest Cody Rhodes fan.

00:46:50But I think the facts are undeniable here.

00:46:52This man is on the run of a lifetime.

00:46:54He's a person who when he comes out at WWE shows feels special.

00:46:58And they have been aching for somebody who feels that way for absolute years.

00:47:04This is somebody who also feels like somebody who can send out and do all the promo work.

00:47:08He can do all the TV, do all the dates, do all the live shows.

00:47:12WWE has been looking for Cody for years and years and years.

00:47:16And they have found him.

00:47:17They have found someone who when they didn't pull the trigger on him last year,

00:47:21people lost faith.

00:47:22People came back into this year at the Royal Rumble being like,

00:47:25well, I don't really know about Cody.

00:47:26And then Cody wins.

00:47:27We get that run to WrestleMania and people are believers again.

00:47:30And that is all down to Cody.

00:47:32And I don't want to have to say this because I don't necessarily like the guy.

00:47:36But he has made a believer out of most people.

00:47:39And I think that is the main factor of Cody Rhodes here.

00:47:42He has been great in the ring.

00:47:44He's shown himself to be a really good champion.

00:47:46He's had matches that have ended up pretty close to high on these top matches of the year lists

00:47:52as well.

00:47:53All the while doing all of the burden that comes with being the WWE champion.

00:47:57That is just, that's way more than other people probably having in their schedules as well.

00:48:01Cody is the archetypical WWE champion and therefore the best wrestler of 2024.

00:48:07Very strong argument.

00:48:09We're going to go to Oli last and try not to repeat too many of your points from last time.

00:48:14He's taken the easy option.

00:48:16Man United.

00:48:18I actually support, um, support Man United actually.

00:48:22Yep, it's that weird place again where I'm having to defend

00:48:25the best wrestler in the world for the best wrestler in the world topic.

00:48:30It's Will Ospreay, of course.

00:48:32For all the reasons I have mentioned in my previous point.

00:48:35Plus, hey, let's look at the other matches he's had this year.

00:48:39Versus Takeshita.

00:48:40That's like a five and a half star match.

00:48:42Versus Michael Oku at Rev Pro.

00:48:44I believe that's Luke Owen and Tempest's favourite ever match they've seen live.

00:48:50Versus Josh Alexander in TNA.

00:48:53That's a five and a half star match.

00:48:54I think the Oku match is a six star match.

00:48:56Versus Takeshita in AEW.

00:48:58That's a five star match.

00:48:59And of course, Danielson versus Ospreay.

00:49:02A six and a half star match.

00:49:04He's had five of probably the top seven, you know, also including Bayley and Io Sky,

00:49:10matches of 2024 so far.

00:49:12And not only in AEW, he's done it for, he's done it for New Japan.

00:49:17Has he?

00:49:19He's done it for TNA.

00:49:20Has he?

00:49:21Not this year.

00:49:22He's done it for Rev Pro.

00:49:24He's done it for TNA.

00:49:25He's done it for AEW.

00:49:27In the last, like, I know this is just 2024, but in the last year period, no one in history

00:49:32has ever had more high quality matches in so many different promotions.

00:49:37Who else can you ever look back on and go, oh yeah, in the space of about six months,

00:49:41this one guy had these three different promotions best ever matches.

00:49:47Best ever match in TNA.

00:49:49Best ever match in Rev Pro.

00:49:50Best ever match in AEW.

00:49:51A couple of times.

00:49:53Also, a lot of the concern about Will making the migration from Japan to North America,

00:49:59how's he going to perform on promos?

00:50:01Smashed out of the park from the very first day.

00:50:04And it's in a way that's not just playing professional wrestling.

00:50:07He finds, he feels unique from every other style of delivery in AEW, in WWE, in anywhere.

00:50:13The bruv catchphrase has gotten over.

00:50:15From the very first night, he was incredibly over with the crowd and he has gone on to

00:50:21be the hottest star in AEW.

00:50:25Will Ospreay.

00:50:27Very good.

00:50:29Again, three very compelling arguments.

00:50:31And honestly, right now I have no idea which way I'm going to go.

00:50:35So I will leave it to the three of you to sway me by telling me how terrible the other

00:50:40two choices are going to be.

00:50:43So let's start back around with Drew McIntyre.

00:50:47And you obviously talked about a lot of the very good work that Drew has done.

00:50:51Great promos, great character work, has had very good matches and such.

00:50:56Is there something to be said where the other two options here could be looked at as more

00:51:03of like the top star of either company, whereas Drew has been a very compelling act on the

00:51:10show, for example?

00:51:12I think he's also been the most compelling act on Raw when he's not been the top guy.

00:51:18I think he has overshadowed their World Heavyweight Champion.

00:51:21He has overshadowed their Women's World Champion.

00:51:24He has overshadowed their Tag Team Champions.

00:51:27He has overshadowed their Intercontinental Champion.

00:51:30He is the top guy on Raw and doesn't have any of the props to kind of bounce that up

00:51:37a little bit.

00:51:37If you're doing a My GM mode, it gives you that plus 10 buff.

00:51:40He doesn't have any of those plus 10 buffs.

00:51:42He is just buff.

00:51:43He is DM Hunk and he is absolutely killing it right now.

00:51:47He is having, outside of Cody and Roman and the Bloodline, I think Drew vs CM Punk is

00:51:58WWE's best feud of 2024 and they haven't had a match yet.

00:52:03And that is partly because one half of that is weak, but the other half of that is absolutely

00:52:09bolstering it up.

00:52:09I'm making a joke.

00:52:10But the other half of that is absolutely carrying this.

00:52:12Punk is doing a good job of this as well.

00:52:15But Drew McIntyre and his character work is really what's carrying this feud and making

00:52:18it so compelling and so must-see.

00:52:22And he's just been unbelievable.

00:52:24This is the best work that Drew has done in a long, long time in WWE.

00:52:30And even then, I think it's better than the work he did when we loved him the first time

00:52:33around.

00:52:34I want to say a few things about how bad of an actor Cody Rhodes is.

00:52:38Because he was supposed to do business for the company.

00:52:42Talk about how he's a good company guy.

00:52:44But what does he do when The Rock, this poor guy who's had a hard time in Hollywood,

00:52:50he comes in and he wants to, you know, go back to his wrestling family.

00:52:53We're all excited.

00:52:54I'm excited.

00:52:55I know I want it.

00:52:56Rock vs Roman at WrestleMania.

00:52:58And Cody should have just stepped to one side.

00:53:00He was given one job.

00:53:02Yeah, sure.

00:53:02You won the Royal Rumble.

00:53:03Mark.

00:53:05Should have stepped to one side.

00:53:06But instead he does this.

00:53:08Over to you, Rock.

00:53:12And he turned everyone against The Rock.

00:53:15Oh, yeah.

00:53:15That's because The Rock would say that as well in all those documentaries, wouldn't he?

00:53:18When he said, I invented that idea.

00:53:20It was all me.

00:53:21Because actually, I think The Rock has actually taken blame and credit for that.

00:53:23So I don't think we can blame Cody for that.

00:53:25Brian DeWitt as well has said it was all Cody's fault.

00:53:28Yeah.

00:53:28Because he should have had that massive main event and he ruined it.

00:53:31Because The Rock's a stand-up guy and he wouldn't throw Cody under the bus.

00:53:35Like, Cody threw him under the bus.

00:53:36No, he just threw him into a bus.

00:53:39Very good.

00:53:41That's what automatic win the show.

00:53:44Why isn't Will Ospreay the best wrestler of the year?

00:53:50It's just flips and shenanigans.

00:53:54Hell, I mean, anyone can do gymnastics, can't they?

00:53:58I think because they brav in an Essex accent.

00:54:00I think wrestling is a very rounded thing.

00:54:02I do think the saying brav in an Essex accent in America is actually it.

00:54:07You guys like the accent.

00:54:09Over here, it's a bit cheesy, to be perfectly honest with you.

00:54:12However, I think Will Ospreay is a remarkable wrestler between the ropes.

00:54:19He is not necessarily the total package yet.

00:54:22He's a very young guy.

00:54:23He's still on the up of his career.

00:54:25That doesn't mean he is the consummate wrestler at the moment.

00:54:28And wrestling is a multifaceted thing.

00:54:31And I think this is why Cody is my pick for this,

00:54:33because it is a multifaceted thing about telling a long-term story.

00:54:37What story has felt longer than Cody's?

00:54:39But I would say that the last,

00:54:41I would say that the months in this year have been kind of

00:54:44that brilliant culmination of it in the sense of

00:54:46we have to discard last year because we're only talking about 2024.

00:54:49So best wrestler this year, Cody Rhodes for that.

00:54:51But also who feels like a big brand deal package of a wrestler.

00:54:57Cody is someone who is going to be slapped on merch everywhere across the board

00:55:01in a way that Will Ospreay just won't be for years to come, I don't think.

00:55:05Like probably until he makes his way to WWE

00:55:07because AEW just doesn't have that same level that Cody is operating on.

00:55:13AEW is not on WWE's level, sadly.

00:55:19I think there's an argument to be made as well that when Will went into AEW,

00:55:24AEW needed a Will Ospreay.

00:55:26They needed that top guy, right?

00:55:28Because that's the one thing that's like,

00:55:29Cody's been doing such a great job over in WWE,

00:55:32that being that top guy and being that number one baby face.

00:55:34And the argument was like, that's what AEW are kind of lacking.

00:55:38They're lacking their Cody Rhodes.

00:55:39When Will Ospreay came in, I think it was Brian Alvarez said,

00:55:42they've got it.

00:55:43They've got their Cody Rhodes.

00:55:44That's what like wrestling needs right now is these guys.

00:55:47Because in 2024, what people are looking for is more positivity in their life.

00:55:51We've come out the back of a pandemic

00:55:52and we're looking to just like not hate on things anymore,

00:55:55look for positivity.

00:55:56The year of like my generation's cynicism, that Gen X millennial cynicism.

00:56:01I'm going to start a YouTube channel where I just talk about how bad movies are

00:56:05and that's going to get me loads of things.

00:56:06That's going to give me loads of views and that's going to make me really popular.

00:56:09That kind of era is dead now.

00:56:11And what people are looking for are like things that they can get behind

00:56:13and things that they can cheer.

00:56:14That's why people like Cody Rhodes and Will Ospreay

00:56:16are getting over to the degree they are.

00:56:18But what that means is that being a heel is so much harder

00:56:21in the world of wrestling now.

00:56:23Being a heel in the old days was so much easier to do

00:56:25because people like to cheer the bad guys.

00:56:27Now people need to boo the bad guys.

00:56:29Cody had this interesting interview recently

00:56:31where he was talking about how in order to be a heel,

00:56:34like, oh, Cody should turn heel.

00:56:36If I'm going to turn heel, as Cody was, I'm paraphrasing slightly,

00:56:39if I'm going to turn heel, I need to effectively cancel myself.

00:56:43I need to work cancel myself and say things that you are not going to like to hear.

00:56:49And that is what Drew is doing.

00:56:50Drew is one of the few guys in wrestling right now

00:56:53who is a genuine heel that people want to boo.

00:56:59Well, I think we'll wrap that round there.

00:57:03Oh, that is a very passionate and strong closing argument,

00:57:08I think, from one Luke Owen.

00:57:12I don't mean to say that these are compelling arguments after every round,

00:57:15but they are.

00:57:16I think you've all come very prepared and are doing a very good job.

00:57:20I think, at the end of all of these points,

00:57:25I think one stood out more than the others.

00:57:29I think one of you could have really hit your point home harder,

00:57:34but went down a bit of a bit rabbit hole and abandoned that a little.

00:57:41But when you talk about someone being an archetypical

00:57:48or archetypal WWE champion, I do think that carries a lot of weight.

00:57:55And, honestly, Luke, I think you made probably the most compelling arguments

00:58:02for why Drew's character work and everything and all that has been the best.

00:58:10And I was very tempted to go in your direction as well,

00:58:13but I'm going to give this round to Laurie for Cody Rhodes.

00:58:18I support Man City.

00:58:21Because I do think being a very successful top guy of WWE

00:58:27that no one's hating on, that is just doing the top guy thing

00:58:34better than we've seen anybody else do,

00:58:37I think that does carry a lot of weight.

00:58:39And all of those points were expressed,

00:58:43so I can't really dot points on anything in that nature.

00:58:47I don't think him taking the top spot for himself

00:58:53out of The Rock's head is a negative against him.

00:58:57But that being said...

00:58:58He refused to do business.

00:58:59He refused to do business.

00:59:00No top guy's ever done that before.

00:59:02Honestly, you said you've got to pick holes in the other guy's arguments,

00:59:07and I can't.

00:59:08I was just like, oh, tell me why Will Ospreay's not the best wrestler on the planet.

00:59:12I had to resort to, oh, just flips in it.

00:59:15I think that was the tightest one, just from a base level of picks.

00:59:20It's very encouraging to see that in years past,

00:59:24we've had like, oh, this is the wrestler of the year.

00:59:26And while I'm still sure,

00:59:29we had our votes cast on the WrestleTalk Podcast channel a week ago,

00:59:34and while Will Ospreay did take that top spot,

00:59:38if somebody told me that Cody Rhodes was their wrestler of the year,

00:59:41or if Drew McIntyre was the wrestler of the year,

00:59:43I wouldn't think twice about it.

00:59:45So very good, again, all-around arguments.

00:59:48But we're going to switch things up a little bit now,

00:59:51because the first three of these rounds have been,

00:59:53what is the best of this?

00:59:54The best SHIELD member,

00:59:56the best wrestler of the year,

00:59:57the best match of the year.

00:59:59We're going to go a little bit different on this one.

01:00:01Because the new hot thing on Raw that gets people all hot and bothered and excited

01:00:07is this Wyatt Six faction.

01:00:10So round four is going to be,

01:00:12which Wyatt Six member is the most likely to break out?

01:00:17We've seen a lot of different members.

01:00:19Granted, they've not shown their faces on TV, save for one, to this point.

01:00:25But a lot of people who haven't been given a lot of chance on WWE TV

01:00:30to show what they've got from either a wrestling perspective

01:00:33or from a character perspective.

01:00:35So I'm going to pose the question to you lot

01:00:38as to which of these three,

01:00:41which of you three is going to present the greatest argument

01:00:44for who of the Wyatt Six is going to be the breakout star of the group?

01:00:51We're going to start with Oli, again, back around.

01:00:54Oli, who's going to be the Wyatt Six's best member,

01:00:59the breakout star of the group?

01:01:01I believe the breakout star of the Wyatt Six is going to be Joe Gacy.

01:01:05Joe Gacy looks like quite a cherub-faced younger star,

01:01:09and you would think that because, oh, he's an NXT signee,

01:01:12only joined in 2020 off the back of the Evolve purchase.

01:01:15But actually, this guy's been wrestling since 2006.

01:01:19He's a near 20-year veteran, but he just doesn't come across that way.

01:01:22He's 36 right now.

01:01:24And I really, you know, he was doing various things in NXT

01:01:28with a dyad and the old sort of spokesperson gimmick he used to have.

01:01:32But in the last six months before he got called up,

01:01:35he had this really good feud with Dijak,

01:01:37which was just based around, I'm never going to quit.

01:01:40And he keeps on getting up, but not in a cane monster way.

01:01:43It was in a sort of sick, Mick Foley, old deranged mankind kind of way.

01:01:49And I found it really, really compelling as a character.

01:01:52And then also, I've always found his sort of just promo delivery

01:01:55a very compelling style as well.

01:01:58And when I look at the Wyatt Six group,

01:02:00even though you've got Bo Dallas in there,

01:02:02there's something about Joe Gacy that makes me think

01:02:05you are the most Bray Wyatt of the bunch.

01:02:09He feels like a Husky Harris from back in the day,

01:02:12who's just been repackaged as part of the Wyatt family.

01:02:15He's also got these weird slingshot discus clothesline that he does,

01:02:22which feels a bit like Bray's old spinning lariat

01:02:26and, of course, Brody's discus clothesline.

01:02:29And yeah, I feel like he's going to be the breakout star.

01:02:34Not the strongest argument.

01:02:35This is just more on vibes.

01:02:36You've got to just go Joe Gacy at the end.

01:02:39This is it.

01:02:40We don't have a lot to work with thus far,

01:02:43save for perhaps one answer.

01:02:45So a lot of this does just go based off of theories

01:02:49as opposed to evidence from the year so far.

01:02:53Let's go to Laurie next.

01:02:55Okay.

01:02:56My pick for the breakout star of the Wyatt Six

01:02:58is somebody who has already been a breakout star from one faction in particular.

01:03:02This is Nikki Cross, who, of course,

01:03:04was probably the most popular and interesting person to come out of Sanity.

01:03:09Sanity in NXT.

01:03:10Nikki Cross managed to get herself completely over during that period of time

01:03:15while most of the thing was focusing on the men's wrestling happening within the faction.

01:03:20Nikki managed to be someone who would get over,

01:03:23be involved in those matches.

01:03:24And people like to see her sort of worm her way in there

01:03:27amongst all the other men going on.

01:03:29Nikki has not had the greatest run of all time, I think,

01:03:31since Sanity and since NXT, really.

01:03:34We've had Nikki almost a superhero.

01:03:36We've had the Alexa Bliss coffee thing.

01:03:39She's been saddled with some bad stuff

01:03:42and tried very, very hard to make it work.

01:03:44But now, now Nikki is returning to a form of character

01:03:49that I think works best for Nikki.

01:03:53Nikki is returning to sort of dark and witchy and crazed.

01:03:58And this is where Nikki really, really shines.

01:04:00She does craze better than pretty much anyone else in WWE, I would say.

01:04:03Like, she sells you in Sanity.

01:04:06And I think the great thing about Nikki in the Wyatt Six

01:04:10is she also probably has the most interesting role

01:04:15in terms of, like, the overall Bray Wyatt lore, right?

01:04:18She is playing Sister Abigail.

01:04:19Sister Abigail is the character that Bray

01:04:22came into the company talking about.

01:04:24This completely off-screen, unseen witch of the backwoods swamps

01:04:28that gave him all of the teachings that he gave to the entire family.

01:04:32Nikki should, with any riot, have a lot of work to do

01:04:36in terms of making this character interesting and believable

01:04:40because this character is seemingly one of the most fundamental

01:04:43to the overall lore of the Wyatts.

01:04:47Like, you've got the introspective stuff

01:04:49of all of these other characters coming in here.

01:04:50Uncle Howdy is kind of a new facet that came in even more recently.

01:04:55But Sister Abigail is, like, baked into the skin of this faction.

01:05:00Like, baked into the deep, deep stuff that Wyatt has been talking about

01:05:05that he was talking about for his entire career in WWE.

01:05:08So I think that, combined with Nikki's ability to break out of factions,

01:05:14makes her, by far and away, the most likely to do that here.

01:05:18And that leaves Luke.

01:05:21I will obviously talk about mine first.

01:05:24I'll talk about mine first, then we'll come into the arguments afterwards, of course.

01:05:28I think we already have our answer, and it's Bo Dallas.

01:05:31He is the one who has already broken out of this group.

01:05:34He was the one who had the hardest task ahead of him in this faction

01:05:40because he is the one who has got to carry this legacy.

01:05:45He is the one who has got to carry this torch.

01:05:48And it is the heaviest torch for him to carry.

01:05:53When the group debuted...

01:05:55In fact, actually, if I may just go back to this episode slightly,

01:05:58the Uncle Howdy gimmick did not get over when he was doing it with Bray.

01:06:06Because it looked like a Mighty Boosh character,

01:06:08and he came out and was like,

01:06:11and people were very quick to make fun of it.

01:06:14And it didn't really work.

01:06:17And yet he has now taken this character,

01:06:19rebranded it, retooled it, and has reformatted it.

01:06:23And now it is the most talked about thing in WWE that isn't Drew McIntyre.

01:06:28I should have got that round last time.

01:06:31And those promos that he's been doing are showing you that

01:06:34Bo has been capable of this for so long,

01:06:37he's just never been given the opportunity to do it.

01:06:40Three weeks now he's done these promos,

01:06:41he's got this incredible delivery,

01:06:43and he's got this incredible way of inflecting the way that he uses his words and stuff.

01:06:48And I think that he has got the chance to be not just the breakout star of this group,

01:06:53but be the star of this group.

01:06:55Because he's never been given this opportunity to be the star of a group,

01:07:00or of a faction, or anything within WWE.

01:07:03And I think this is going to be his chance to be able to do it.

01:07:07And if I can, you know, we said a lot of this is vibes.

01:07:10There isn't a lot of evidence to go on here.

01:07:11But I actually have evidence to bring forward to this.

01:07:15And that is from this past Monday's Raw,

01:07:17where Adam Pearce opened up his door to his office,

01:07:21and Bo Dallas was sitting there.

01:07:23The crowd in the building lost their minds for Bo just sitting there,

01:07:26because he's a real person now.

01:07:28He's not just a guy that's on a mini-disc player on a VHS tape.

01:07:31He's a physical embodiment.

01:07:33And the people lost their minds.

01:07:34When we did the rest of the podcast,

01:07:35that was the thing that a lot of people were really focusing on.

01:07:37A show that had a lot, you know, Rhea Ripley to return.

01:07:40We had a lot of people still messaging to be like,

01:07:42Bo's there.

01:07:43Bo is there in person.

01:07:44What does this mean?

01:07:45Where are we heading to next?

01:07:47He's got so much buzz around him already.

01:07:49And I think that he's going to be able to take that forward,

01:07:52and become a top star out of this.

01:07:56I think this will be a shorter round in general,

01:07:59because we do need to get to our main event shortly.

01:08:04And just, again, I don't think there's as much of...

01:08:07an argument to be made without reiterating a lot of the same points.

01:08:12That being said, I do think that, again, these are...

01:08:16These are as good an argument as you could possibly make

01:08:19with the information we have been given thus far.

01:08:23So I'm gonna call the round after the...

01:08:26If I may.

01:08:27Uh, sure.

01:08:28I don't think Nikki is Sister Abigail.

01:08:30I think she's Abby the Witch, who is different.

01:08:33Who's based on Sister Abigail.

01:08:34Yes, but it is a different person.

01:08:36I just wanted to make that point.

01:08:38Now I'll call the round!

01:08:40You're gonna call the round now?

01:08:41Before the comments get in.

01:08:42Can we just have one...

01:08:43Can I just say one thing against Luke?

01:08:45Have a conclusion paragraph.

01:08:49Each.

01:08:50And then we'll close the round.

01:08:52Well, I won't boost up my pick anymore,

01:08:54but I will say I love Nikki Cross.

01:08:57However, I think Alexa Bliss, long term,

01:08:59will be the biggest star in the group.

01:09:02And I think Nikki Cross will, as usual,

01:09:04be the secondary player to Bliss.

01:09:07And yeah, that's why she's Abby the Witch,

01:09:09not Sister Abigail, full on.

01:09:11And for Bo Dallas, yes, he's knocked out the park so far.

01:09:15But I think he's going to encounter the same problems

01:09:17that Bray found with his own creativity.

01:09:20And that is, when they get inside the ring,

01:09:23there's only so long that gimmick can last.

01:09:26And that will...

01:09:28I'm hoping it doesn't,

01:09:29but I think that's a big obstacle to it for him.

01:09:32Whereas Joe Gacy will have a bit more

01:09:36of an easy path to success.

01:09:38I don't know about that.

01:09:40If only because I don't think there's a lot of people

01:09:42that can point to a lot of good Joe Gacy matches.

01:09:45And I wonder if he's going to have the same,

01:09:46the bell rings and problems are going to present themselves.

01:09:52My argument would be that Bo is already a star in this group.

01:09:56Bo has already walked in and been a star.

01:09:58He was already part of a very intriguing,

01:10:01interesting story going on.

01:10:02He's not going to break out of this group

01:10:05because he's already being presented as the star of the group.

01:10:07It doesn't...

01:10:09It's...

01:10:09He is disqualified from this because he is already the star.

01:10:14Breaking out means overcoming and not just being part of the faction.

01:10:17Bo is already being presented as other from the faction.

01:10:19Overcoming?

01:10:20He's going to overcome being the brother of the guy

01:10:24who the group is based on.

01:10:25Like that is probably the most overcoming

01:10:28that anyone in the group has to do.

01:10:29He's got actually the hardest task of anyone in this group

01:10:32in order to get over.

01:10:34And I would disagree that I don't...

01:10:35He's ever been a star in WWE.

01:10:38He was the B-team.

01:10:39He was the social outcast.

01:10:41He was Bo Lee.

01:10:42He was saddled with cat gimmick after cat gimmick after cat gimmick.

01:10:46He's never been given the chance.

01:10:48Which means he can be the breakout star of this group

01:10:51because he's never had the chance to be a star in the first place.

01:10:54I thought you were saying cat gimmick.

01:10:56Oh, I thought he was getting a cat gimmick.

01:10:57He probably wouldn't have got that override.

01:10:59Yeah, I will call the round there.

01:11:04And again, I think all of you made the points

01:11:09for your particular choices that I really wanted each of you to make.

01:11:14Even only at the end.

01:11:15Because I do think of the people in the group,

01:11:17Joe Gacy is the best worker of the bunch.

01:11:21Obviously, the fair few Joe Gacy matches that I think were pretty good.

01:11:25Didn't like his work in NXT, but that was more down to character.

01:11:29But similar to how we had perhaps an easier argument to make

01:11:35with best match of the year so far,

01:11:37I do think there is one option here where

01:11:41I think an argument was a bit easier to present

01:11:44given what we've been shown thus far.

01:11:46And I'm going to give this round to Luke with Bo Dallas.

01:11:50Whether or not he needs to break out or whatnot,

01:11:55I think is a bit of semantics.

01:11:57This competition is grunt.

01:11:59I remember that Bo leave gimmick.

01:12:01He needed to break out of the B team real bad.

01:12:04And it appears that he's going to.

01:12:05And I hope that he does.

01:12:07So with that being said, we're going to bring this

01:12:10to our final round of grape bomb competition

01:12:14before our true main event bonus round of math versus pipe bomb.

01:12:18That being what is the best money in the bank ladder match of all time.

01:12:26We just had this pay-per-view this past weekend

01:12:29and it offered some choices should someone choose to pick them.

01:12:34Don't know if anyone has.

01:12:37That being said, let's start with Luke.

01:12:42What is the best money in the bank ladder match

01:12:45that there has ever, ever been over these last near 20 years?

01:12:502014.

01:12:54I love this match.

01:12:56Because this is the match that has some guys in them.

01:13:00Some guys do their spots.

01:13:01Some guys do their ladder stuff.

01:13:04But at its very core, it has got Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose.

01:13:10The breakup of the shield.

01:13:12This is their first match.

01:13:13This is the first part of the breakup of the shield.

01:13:16So the first time these two really start to clash together.

01:13:19And that story goes through the entire match,

01:13:22even leading up to the finish where Kane comes down

01:13:27and stops Dean Ambrose from winning,

01:13:29allowing Seth Rollins to win,

01:13:31which in turn leads to the greatest cash-in of all time at Wrestlemania 31.

01:13:36So not only is it an incredibly good money in the bank ladder matches,

01:13:41which I do think are a rarity,

01:13:43it also is the catalyst for the greatest cash-in of all time.

01:13:50Also within that, you've got this insane bump that Seth Rollins takes

01:13:53where he hits a ladder and bumps on it about five times.

01:13:57It's wild.

01:13:58And it is awesome.

01:13:59It was also a ladder match that felt very different to the ladder match

01:14:02that WWE were doing at the time

01:14:03because all of a sudden you had guys like Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins in there

01:14:07bringing some ROH and bringing some CZW into it.

01:14:10And it's awesome.

01:14:11What's fascinating about that 2014 one as well

01:14:13is that the lineup of that ladder match

01:14:14is not supposed to be the lineup of that money in the bank ladder match.

01:14:17The ones who are in the main event, or at least some of the guys in that main event,

01:14:20they're supposed to be in this one.

01:14:22Things like guys like Alberto Del Rio are supposed to be in this one over here.

01:14:26But then because Danielson vacated the belt,

01:14:29that became about the world title and let's create a new ladder match.

01:14:32And that ladder match surpasses this one over here

01:14:34and is the one for the world title.

01:14:36So it's so good.

01:14:37It's great.

01:14:38Very good.

01:14:392014.

01:14:412014.

01:14:43Laurie, let's go to you next.

01:14:45Okay.

01:14:45Well, my pick for the greatest money in the bank ladder match of all time

01:14:49is the first one.

01:14:502005.

01:14:52Now we don't talk about this match as much as we should do

01:14:56because there are some elements of it that we don't like to talk about.

01:14:59Kane's a Republican.

01:15:01But there's also, it's just a great lineup in this match.

01:15:03We've got Chris Jericho.

01:15:04We've got Chris Benoit.

01:15:05We have Kane.

01:15:06We have Edge.

01:15:07We have Christian.

01:15:07And we have Shelton Benjamin.

01:15:10This is a match that came out of the gate and got over a gimmick.

01:15:15How many matches has WWE tried to get over a gimmick?

01:15:19A brand new style of match that nobody has ever seen before.

01:15:22And how many of them have been successful?

01:15:25Sure, there are the big hitters.

01:15:26They've got the Royal Rumbles and stuff.

01:15:28But it's really only the Elimination Chamber and Money in the Bank

01:15:34that have come out the gate with a brilliant match

01:15:36and stood the test of time in terms of brand new gimmicks that WWE have come up with.

01:15:41Money in the Bank 2005 managed to show a load of new stuff, basically.

01:15:47There were a load of spots in that that have just never been seen before.

01:15:50I think also composition-wise it is maybe one of the most perfect lineups for that kind of match.

01:15:55You've got Jericho.

01:15:56You've got Benoit, who was probably at the top of his particular game at that exact time.

01:16:00You've got Kane, the big force that everyone needs to overcome.

01:16:03You've got the tag team of Edge and Christian,

01:16:05ladder match specialists on opposite sides in the middle of this.

01:16:09And then you've got Shelton Benjamin, who is just on peak athletic form,

01:16:13doing crazy stuff all across the board.

01:16:17This was also a match in which...

01:16:19This was during a time in WWE that I don't think necessarily 2014 was in,

01:16:24where just matches felt real dangerous.

01:16:27This felt really dangerous.

01:16:28This was people just chucking ladders and scenery around.

01:16:32There's a bit where one of the ladders gets German suplexed as part of a German suplex.

01:16:37It just goes flying out of the ring.

01:16:38The amount of care put into this feels maybe a little bit lacklustre,

01:16:42but it gave it this vibe of being incredibly dangerous.

01:16:46And you can see the crowd just hotting it.

01:16:48They start hot and they end hotter.

01:16:51They just go electric by the end of this entire thing.

01:16:54And I think just in sheer duration of getting over this entire gimmick

01:16:58and then getting over the briefcase gimmick,

01:17:00because Edge wins and then goes on to cash in,

01:17:02like you have the perfect package.

01:17:06This was a match that came out of the gate fully formed and sold us all on an entire format.

01:17:13And that brings us to Oli.

01:17:18Go on then.

01:17:212020.

01:17:23I could just rest my argument there, but I'm not going to.

01:17:26Because it is 2020.

01:17:28That means men and women should be on equal footing.

01:17:31So why not have the match for both genders at the same time?

01:17:35Yeah, it's the pandemic.

01:17:36They just had the Firefly Funhouse video essay movie thing, which was so

01:17:46well-received critically and commercially.

01:17:48Like, what has pushed the art form of professional wrestling further

01:17:53than that match and actually worked?

01:17:55So WWE thought, we can do this every couple of months.

01:17:59Maybe even when the pandemic's over, we can keep these cinematic things going.

01:18:03And they knocked it out the HQ.

01:18:07Because you start.

01:18:08Like, what is a better concept than WWE HQ, everyone starts at the bottom,

01:18:14they've got to work their way up, and they get to the top.

01:18:17And there's a ring on the top of the building,

01:18:20with a ladder, to get something even higher than the top of the building to get the briefcase.

01:18:25It's dread.

01:18:26It's diehard.

01:18:27It's all your favourite action movies in one.

01:18:30And it's got cameos.

01:18:31It's got John Laurinaitis.

01:18:35It's got Vince McMahon.

01:18:42It's got Bruce Prichard.

01:18:46It's got a guy who says he's Doink the Clown, but isn't Doink the Clown.

01:18:52It's got Stephanie McMahon interrupting Dana Brooke unhooking

01:18:56what is clearly a replica briefcase.

01:18:59They were told at the start, you've got to go all the way to the top of the building,

01:19:02and Dana Brooke's just in a random meeting room, and there's a briefcase there.

01:19:05She unhooks it.

01:19:06She's like, I won.

01:19:07And because this match has no crowd noise, no commentators,

01:19:12they put an orchestral score underneath all of these moments.

01:19:15So it's tense music, it's tense music.

01:19:18But then Dana Brooke unhooks this briefcase, and you get soaring orchestral celebration music.

01:19:24And then Stephanie McMahon, clearly filmed on a completely different day

01:19:28from a completely different location, interrupts her.

01:19:32You get a food fight.

01:19:33You get Shayna Baszler being written out the match through falling over.

01:19:45When you think it can't get any better, at the top of the building,

01:19:49and Asuka's unhooked her briefcase, you get Baron Corbin committing murder.

01:19:54Not once, but twice.

01:19:57He throws Rey Mysterio and Aleister Black off the top of the building.

01:20:02Thankfully, there was a smaller roof beneath that roof that caught them both.

01:20:11Money in the Bank 2020.

01:20:13A lot of the Money in the Bank ladder matches blend into one, but this one stands supreme.

01:20:18The risk is worth the reward.

01:20:22No, have I done it the wrong way around?

01:20:24The reward is worth the risk, 2020.

01:20:28No, that's the one that would make sense.

01:20:30They do it the wrong way.

01:20:31Yeah, yeah, I couldn't remember which way it was.

01:20:35Well, that is an interesting choice, I will certainly say.

01:20:40Excuse me, sir.

01:20:41Hello.

01:20:43You say that men and women will be on equal footing.

01:20:47Would this not perhaps be seen as women being forced to take half of the amount of time

01:20:53to share it with the men in a match, perhaps, instead of just being in the main event of the

01:20:58pay-per-view like we've seen them be?

01:21:00What do you mean?

01:21:01They're both in the same match.

01:21:03Men and women headline that pay-per-view.

01:21:05With both getting half the amount of time they would have otherwise.

01:21:10But that's equality.

01:21:13Tremendous.

01:21:13Well, anywho, down to this end of the table, however, because we do have, well,

01:21:20we've got three very different ladder matches to discuss here, but I think...

01:21:25One of them's technically made on a ladder match.

01:21:27It eventually becomes a ladder match.

01:21:29Sure, it's a long preamble for a ladder match.

01:21:30One of them's a commute.

01:21:32Yeah.

01:21:33It's a climb-the-corporate ladder match, is how it was described.

01:21:37But 2014 and 2005 being the more similar of the three that we've got here,

01:21:45I think both could definitely make the argument about launching a new star,

01:21:49getting somebody else up to a main event, you know, level in Edge and in Seth Rollins.

01:21:58I think Lori made a really good point about the varied lineup of the six wrestlers you

01:22:04have in the 2005 match.

01:22:06The other wrestlers that you have in the 2014 match, however, Luke, you talked a lot about

01:22:13how Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose kind of carried that match with the, you know, Shield

01:22:18story going through, however.

01:22:20But the rest of the lineup, it feels like perhaps some of them get, you know, lost in

01:22:26the shuffle a little bit.

01:22:27Yeah, because ultimately, and that's what I think makes the 2014 match so interesting,

01:22:30and why I do think it is the best one, is ultimately no one else really matters in that

01:22:35match.

01:22:36It is about Seth and it is about Dean.

01:22:40Very rarely in the Money in the Bank ladder match is it used almost as a backdrop to further

01:22:46a much bigger storyline that is going to pay off in a different match, while at the

01:22:51same time getting over the Money in the Bank gimmick, while at the same time getting over

01:22:55the top heel fraction in the Authority and what is the most cataclysmic thing of 2014,

01:23:01which is the breakup of the Shield.

01:23:03And so I think from that aspect of it, it's why it's the most memorable one, outside of

01:23:07an obvious, you know, answer and the first one.

01:23:11It's because, Ollie made this point earlier, a lot of the other Money in the Bank ladder

01:23:15matches kind of blend into one.

01:23:16There wasn't much of a muchness with kind of the similar sort of names.

01:23:20But 2014 stands out from those because it doesn't actually matter who the other five

01:23:25people or six people or ten people were in that match.

01:23:28It's these two guys.

01:23:29They carry this match because their whole match is built around them.

01:23:34It's unique in Money in the Bank in that regard.

01:23:37And I think that's why it is the best one.

01:23:40Laurie, you're a rebuttal against that, perhaps.

01:23:44Well, why would you have all the other people in there to just do a job, just to be there

01:23:48to do some flips and stuff?

01:23:49I think the great thing about 2005 is that every single person gets a moment to shine.

01:23:53Every single person feels like a vital moment in that match waiting to happen.

01:23:58The whole story of that match is everybody gets their little bit.

01:24:02It could be anybody's game until Edge comes in and steals the entire thing with that chair

01:24:07shot to Chris Benoit's injured arm, basically.

01:24:10It feels like, yeah, it doesn't have a load of story necessarily going into it.

01:24:16It's not focusing on one person's feud, which I think is a detriment to 2014, actually,

01:24:22being so focused on two people because I think it's kind of disrespectful to everyone else

01:24:26who is there, ultimately.

01:24:28Why was that not just a singles match if that's what you really wanted to do?

01:24:31It's because you also wanted to have Seth have the briefcase, which, again, it's copying

01:24:35and pasting from the blueprint of a Money in the Bank ladder match, isn't it?

01:24:40The archetype of a Money in the Bank ladder match, the 2005 match.

01:24:44And actually, to Laurie's points, I think one of the key things about how good a Money

01:24:48in the Bank ladder match is, is the cash-in that comes afterwards.

01:24:52In 2014, obviously, does lead to the greatest cash-in of all time at WrestleMania 31.

01:24:58I think yours has the great cash-in.

01:25:01It's certainly a top six cash-in for Edge at New Year's Revolution.

01:25:07But 2020...

01:25:13I agree, it's an all-time moment.

01:25:17Asuka actually just wins the belt the next night because of that beautiful reveal.

01:25:21Apparently a shoot.

01:25:22It was a shoot, but what happened on the men's side of things?

01:25:26I don't want to get into what happens after.

01:25:27We're talking about the match.

01:25:29We're talking about the match.

01:25:31What is the finish of the 2020, certainly on the men's side of things?

01:25:34Otis gets it.

01:25:35What I want to focus on is...

01:25:36How does he get it?

01:25:37He catches it.

01:25:38What I want to focus on...

01:25:39Why does he catch it?

01:25:40Because Baron Corbin and AJ Styles wrestled too hard for it.

01:25:44Yeah, because AJ...

01:25:44Because they wanted it so much.

01:25:45AJ got it and they went...

01:25:48And then Otis caught it.

01:25:49And you think that is the ending to the best Money in the Bank ladder match?

01:25:52It's because he maintained control.

01:25:54It's actually worse than Kane interfering in the 2014 one,

01:25:58which is actually quite a bad finish.

01:26:00Well, this is going to be my point.

01:26:01There's a lot of great Kane.

01:26:02There's also probably, let's be honest, more bad Kane.

01:26:06And Kane...

01:26:07And Kane...

01:26:09No Kane.

01:26:09How dare you?

01:26:10No Kane in 2020.

01:26:12How dare you?

01:26:12It is slacks Kane.

01:26:13That is one of the better Kanes.

01:26:16That is second best Kane.

01:26:17Bad finish.

01:26:18Bad finish.

01:26:19Good finish.

01:26:21I'll give everybody a final conclusion statement here.

01:26:26I do think this round has taken a turn.

01:26:30For me, at a point.

01:26:33It was Kane.

01:26:34That being said, Ollie, wrap up.

01:26:39I really am weirdly fond about 2020.

01:26:43And the sort of things that WWE tried to do to get round not having fans in there.

01:26:51And they tried a lot of things.

01:26:52And a lot of it failed.

01:26:54But occasionally they would strike gold.

01:26:57And that's the Firefly Fun House.

01:27:01But then they also did this Money in the Bank 2020.

01:27:06And there are parts of that time, like the Survivor Series egg situation from later on

01:27:12that year.

01:27:12Us watching that together on stream from the pandemic households over Zoom.

01:27:18Those were bright spots of insanity.

01:27:21The problem with WWE and AEW right now is that they're so good that you can't just sit

01:27:25there and laugh at them anymore.

01:27:27But that's the sort of one joy that I would have while stuck in my flat for weeks on end.

01:27:33Is watching it with you guys.

01:27:35And I wouldn't have laughed at just a boringly booked ladder match.

01:27:39Don't be pathetic.

01:27:41Have some dignity, man.

01:27:45Have some dignity.

01:27:47Playing on the old heart strings, Ollie Davis.

01:27:50Anyway, Edge won my one.

01:27:51And you love Canadians.

01:27:53Oh, that's a really good point.

01:27:55You also love people from Iowa.

01:27:57And that's where that's from.

01:28:01Hey, Slipknot's second album is called Iowa.

01:28:03And that is arguably their best album.

01:28:07So when you put it all together, 2014 is the obvious answer to go with.

01:28:11Look, here's the thing.

01:28:12It's like, I know I said like, oh, it's also a Bad Finch 2014 one.

01:28:15And it kind of is.

01:28:16But it's one of those matches that overcomes that.

01:28:19It doesn't really matter that that is the finish.

01:28:22No one looks at it and be like, oh, man, they ruined Money in the Bank there.

01:28:25It actually gets over Seth.

01:28:27It gets over the authority.

01:28:29And it makes you want to cheer Dean more.

01:28:33So yours made a star.

01:28:37Mine made two stars.

01:28:41And it led to the greatest cash in all time.

01:28:44I was ready to sign this one off.

01:28:47But that was a very compelling conclusion statement.

01:28:51Uh, well, first, I think we can easily narrow this down to two.

01:28:55Sorry, Laurie.

01:28:56It was a good effort, though.

01:28:59Uh, as, uh, as objectively as possible.

01:29:03Was it Benoit?

01:29:07Comparing the 2020 Money in the Bank match to Die Hard.

01:29:15I was checked out before you'd even mentioned the appearances of

01:29:19horrible people like Johnny Ace and Vince.

01:29:23And I'm sure that guy that played Doink has got some skeletons in his closet, too.

01:29:28Screw him.

01:29:29Um, so that would narrow it down to two.

01:29:33And I was really waiting for the the point to be made that

01:29:40this ladder match not only got over Seth, but it got over Dean in defeat.

01:29:45Which is something that I think only a few Money in the Bank matches can say that they did.

01:29:51Um, up to that point, I think that Laurie made a very convincing argument for this

01:29:58first Money in the Bank match.

01:30:00The struggle that it had to put over this new thing and do so with a very great lineup and such.

01:30:08But I will not be swayed by attempts of Canadians and such.

01:30:15I think it's outrageous.

01:30:17So I'm going to give this final round to Money in the Bank 2014.

01:30:21Yeah!

01:30:22This competition's rigged.

01:30:24I'm glad that there was part of me that wanted to play off something you'd said earlier in the show,

01:30:30which is that you never acknowledge that the other person's is better.

01:30:33I was going to throw the whole thing and be like,

01:30:35Oh no, 2020, because now you have to pick that one as the best one.

01:30:40I absolutely do not, sir.

01:30:43However, that leaves us with perhaps a bit of a conundrum.

01:30:47Oh wait, because the points are two, one, and two.

01:30:54We can't have a tie.

01:30:56But thankfully for this episode, we have our own built-in tiebreaker round.

01:31:03Because we will now be finally, definitively, for once in all time, determining

01:31:10Steiner Math or the Pipe Bomb.

01:31:13What is the greatest promo of all time?

01:31:17I will be bidding you adieu because we are going to be changing things up a little bit,

01:31:22because I don't know if anybody remembers,

01:31:24but Steiner Math may or may not have featured on one of my TLC lists, albeit at number 10.

01:31:32But apparently, I cannot be trusted to give an objective opinion about this.

01:31:37Thus, I will pass over the reins to someone who has been completely impartial.

01:31:42I don't like wrestling.

01:31:43That being Laurie Blake.

01:31:45Laurie, you will be our final arbiter of this here Grite Bomb show.

01:31:51I need the best possible arguments for both Steiner Math and the Pipe Bomb.

01:31:57And Laurie will decide the winner.

01:32:01We're going to take a little bit of a break just to shuffle some chairs and

01:32:04line this shot up nice and tidy.

01:32:06So don't go away.

01:32:07We'll be back in just a couple of minutes.

01:32:30So

01:33:00so

01:33:30so

01:34:00so

01:34:30so

01:35:00so

01:35:30so

01:35:49Math versus Pipe Bomb.

01:35:53A battle for the ages.

01:35:56Something I care very little about, to be perfectly honest with you.

01:36:00But I'm sure you watching at home do.

01:36:03These two clearly do.

01:36:04Our two competitors, Ollie, who will be arguing that the Pipe Bomb is greater than Steiner Math.

01:36:09And Luke, who will be arguing that Steiner Math is greater than the Pipe Bomb.

01:36:14But only one person can decide.

01:36:16And that, it's me!

01:36:17I'm gonna do it!

01:36:19Yeah!

01:36:19Too much responsibility, Tempest, you idiot.

01:36:22Right, okay.

01:36:23Well, should we kick things off?

01:36:24Who wants to go first?

01:36:26Anyone feeling confident?

01:36:28Loser's up first.

01:36:31Loser's go second.

01:36:34Loser's up first.

01:36:35Ollie Davis, for your notes.

01:36:39Luke Owen, while you sit there, hopefully as uncomfortable as you can possibly be,

01:36:46I want you to listen to me.

01:36:48I want you to digest this, because I have a lot of things I want to get off my chest.

01:36:53I don't hate the Steiner Maths promo.

01:36:57Luke, I don't even dislike it.

01:36:58I like it.

01:36:59I like it a hell of a lot more than a lot of most ironic promos.

01:37:04I hate this idea that it's the best.

01:37:08Because it's not.

01:37:09The Pipe Bomb is the best.

01:37:11The Pipe Bomb is the best in the world.

01:37:14No other promo has changed the course of the wrestling industry.

01:37:20A lot of promos are used to get over someone, like the 316 Stone Cold Steve Austin.

01:37:26A lot of promos are used to build a match, like at a wrestling pay-per-view.

01:37:31But very few break the meta walls.

01:37:34They literally go, hello Colt Cabana, how you doing?

01:37:38Oops, I'm breaking the fourth wall.

01:37:40This is a meta commentary on the state of wrestling in 2011, and all that pent-up frustration

01:37:46that I and you and you and loads of other people who were watching at that time had.

01:37:52Because WWE was not an enjoyable place to work or to watch and be a fan of.

01:37:59It was the stuff outside of wrestling that was really engaging us.

01:38:04And Punk was literally the voice of the voiceless.

01:38:07He went on screen and he said all of these things that we were saying

01:38:11on our chat rooms, on our Reddit threads.

01:38:14And from that, it gave a leader to follow.

01:38:19Yes, he did not then enact the change that he said.

01:38:24And I don't begrudge him for that.

01:38:26Because he was working for that WWE machine, which over 10 years ago was not a nice place,

01:38:32and it ground him down.

01:38:33And it forced him to go away from a thing that he loves, he told me in that AEW promo.

01:38:38But other people were inspired by this promo, the Pipe Bomb, to take up the mantle and go

01:38:43and change the wrestling industry using the mission statement he laid out.

01:38:48People like Cody Rhodes, people like Drew McIntyre, Tony Khan, The Elite, Kenny Omega,

01:38:54and they made AEW.

01:38:55And now we are living through the greatest wrestling period ever, arguably, in both TV

01:39:02numbers and merchandise deals and live attendance and just the pure quality of the in-ring work

01:39:08rate and storylines, because it's AEW versus WWE.

01:39:15Sure, Vince left, but it was also that competition was already in place before Vince left,

01:39:22and the quality of the product was increasing.

01:39:24That can be traced back to Punk and his Pipe Bomb, and later on Punk back-referencing that

01:39:30Pipe Bomb when he joined AEW and then when he goes to WWE.

01:39:34It's the basis of all his feuds now.

01:39:37Pipe Bomb.

01:39:40Luke Owen, your rebuttal.

01:39:44Pipe Bomb didn't lead to that.

01:39:46The Pipe Bomb led to our match at Money in the Bank that was then a bungled follow-up

01:39:51story, and then it was a title unification match at SummerSlam, and then Kevin Nash got

01:39:57involved, and then Punk went on a feud with him.

01:40:00Then he won the title back, and then we got the Summer of Punk, which started in the winter.

01:40:06The Pipe Bomb did not create AEW.

01:40:08The Pipe Bomb did not create the rise of New Japan Pro Wrestling.

01:40:12The Pipe Bomb did not create Cody Rhodes going off to WCPW.

01:40:15It did not create Drew McIntyre giving this huge boon to the UK independency.

01:40:21The Pipe Bomb is a very, very good promo.

01:40:25It is an iconic promo.

01:40:27It is such a good promo.

01:40:31But it is not as iconic as Steiner Math.

01:40:35Steiner Math has followed not just Scott around, it's followed an entire promotion around,

01:40:41unlike the Pipe Bomb.

01:40:43Steiner Math has actually defined an entire promotion.

01:40:46WWE did nothing with the Pipe Bomb apart from grind it in the ground and make it rubbish.

01:40:53TNA have done nothing but celebrate Math, and celebrate how important it is to them

01:40:58without making it part of someone's character.

01:41:01They didn't make him the following we do another follow-up Maths promo,

01:41:04and then give him Maths-based t-shirts.

01:41:06It was just a promo that has outlived...

01:41:10I mean, it's about the TNA.

01:41:12It will outlive most other wrestling promos.

01:41:14It will outlive probably all wrestling promos.

01:41:17And here is the great thing about Steiner Math,

01:41:19and here is why I think it is the greatest promo of all time.

01:41:22Not only because it is so memorable, not only because it's so quotable,

01:41:26not only because everyone knows this promo.

01:41:31It was the second take.

01:41:35He did it once, and PD Williams laughed too much, so they did it a second time.

01:41:41That promo is not by accident.

01:41:44It is by design, and it is so beautiful for that.

01:41:51Very interesting points made.

01:41:53Let's ask some questions, shall we, very quickly of our panel.

01:41:58Oli, do you think the mythologising that you're putting on the pipe bomb is coping,

01:42:05or do you think it's real?

01:42:06Do you think Punk actually started all these things,

01:42:08or do you think there was just a wider feeling in wrestling

01:42:13that he just captured in a promo, but didn't necessarily create the wave?

01:42:18Yes.

01:42:20Yes to both of those.

01:42:21Yes to both of those things.

01:42:22Well, you get sentiments in fandom, or in society, or in workforces all the time,

01:42:31and it's just people being disgruntled.

01:42:33And that is a very real thing, and it bubbles, and it bubbles, it bubbles.

01:42:36Does it ever bubble over?

01:42:38For it to bubble over, you need someone to unite all of those people,

01:42:42give them someone to get behind, and plant your flag in the ground.

01:42:46And that's exactly what Punk did with that promo.

01:42:50Very interesting.

01:42:52Does style of math make sense at all, Luke?

01:42:54Of course it does.

01:42:56I believe people have put this into cat GPT, and it says, yeah, no, does that add up?

01:43:00Like, he does use math incorrectly, but the general basis of it does make sense.

01:43:07Which do you think you quote more?

01:43:09Style of math?

01:43:11Yeah, any time I see Samoa Joe, I think Senor Joe.

01:43:17Okay, so do you, Oli, have a rebuttal for why math is not better than pipe bomb?

01:43:22Uh, Luke said that, you know, TNA, what was it used to build,

01:43:27and that TNA mythologized, and really celebrated this promo.

01:43:31That's not true either.

01:43:33That was not, we've gone back and watched that show of Sacrifice,

01:43:37and it is not mentioned at all.

01:43:39That is a promo that has gotten a lifespan, because everyone who watched it at the time,

01:43:43which would have been me and Luke on Impact, we laughed, that's funny.

01:43:47And then a couple of years later, it was uploaded to YouTube,

01:43:50and then it caught, it got this whole new life.

01:43:54But that's years after it was cut.

01:43:56And it was, like, while the pipe bomb was used to build the Money in the Bank 2011 promo,

01:44:02the match, the Scott Steiner promo was used to build the match against Samoa Joe at Sacrifice.

01:44:09So it's the same thing.

01:44:10And then I look at, okay, well, what had the better payoff there?

01:44:14Is it Sacrifice, or is it Money in the Bank 2011,

01:44:18which is considered one of the greatest wrestling pay-per-views of all time?

01:44:22Because you don't just look at the pipe bomb promo then, by your logic,

01:44:25you've got to look at the conditions it created for that John Cena CM Punk title match,

01:44:30which is that Chicago crowd, it's one of the greatest pops ever.

01:44:36And it would have had that even without the pipe bomb promo.

01:44:39Look, I'm not taking anything away from the pipe bomb.

01:44:41It is legit iconic.

01:44:43It is probably, I mean, it's among, like,

01:44:46the greatest promos that WWE have ever done.

01:44:49Like, certainly, like, top five.

01:44:51I think you can probably make an argument for top three.

01:44:54Like, I think it is up there with Austin 316.

01:45:00But I do push back on this idea that Steiner Maths is only popular

01:45:04because of people uploading it to YouTube and making fun of it.

01:45:08Because while that is correct, that's also why it's incredible.

01:45:13Because it was not just...

01:45:15It was a promo in a moment that we watched and we moved on from it.

01:45:18Legit, like, Oli and I have read back on the the Figure Fours

01:45:21and the Wrestling Observers of the time,

01:45:22and, like, no one makes reference to it.

01:45:23It's not like everyone's like,

01:45:24whoa, Scotty cut this weird promo, because that's what Scotty does.

01:45:28But that's the point.

01:45:29Scott Steiner has had a career of cutting weird promos.

01:45:33Scott Steiner has a career of being like,

01:45:35everybody knows, want to know where I've been!

01:45:39Like, he has got a weird way of doing promos.

01:45:41He's that bowling guy.

01:45:43He is. He's a weird guy.

01:45:46And in a sea of weird promos, it's this one.

01:45:51This is the one that people think of.

01:45:53If you think of Scott Steiner, you think of this.

01:45:56If you think of CM Punk, you might not specifically think of the pipe bomb.

01:46:00You might think of any of the other great promos that he did.

01:46:02You might think of the Raven feud in Ring of Honor.

01:46:04You might think of, not the promo,

01:46:06but the Money in the Bank match in 2011.

01:46:09You might think of his return promo in AEW.

01:46:11You might think of his return promo in WWE.

01:46:14But if you say to someone, Scott Steiner,

01:46:16they're going to think of one promo.

01:46:18And it is this one promo.

01:46:21It's not just an iconic promo in wrestling.

01:46:23It's an iconic promo for him.

01:46:24It's an iconic promo for a promotion.

01:46:26It has probably done more promotion for TNA

01:46:29than anything that Hogan and Bischoff did in their run.

01:46:32Like, inarguable, actually.

01:46:33It's done more promotion than anything that Hogan or Bischoff did for it.

01:46:37Did anything than the Smashing Pumpkins ever did for them.

01:46:39Did anything that Dixie Carter ever did for them.

01:46:42It is the TNA promo.

01:46:47It's a very interesting point.

01:46:49Let us have one last paragraph in summary.

01:46:55Well, you said you didn't like the heartstrings being tugged earlier.

01:46:59I'm going to do it anyway.

01:47:00Tug, tug, tug, tug, tug.

01:47:01I don't have them.

01:47:01Tug, tug, tug, tug, tug, tug.

01:47:03He's dead inside.

01:47:04Dead inside.

01:47:05Welcome to the Wrestling YouTube channel.

01:47:09I genuinely don't know, without the pipe bomb, if we're here doing this.

01:47:14Because in 2011, off the back of the Nexus angle, in 2010 in the summer,

01:47:20I was done with WWE.

01:47:22And I was like, I'll go watch Ring of Honor.

01:47:24I got into the British wrestling indie scene.

01:47:26But that wasn't the fuel.

01:47:28I couldn't have continued my fandom in a way that I needed to,

01:47:33to start working for WrestleTalk and stuff, if I was just following the indies.

01:47:37I needed to be watching WWE.

01:47:40But I was done with it.

01:47:42And I'd watched the CM Punk bits.

01:47:44And it was that 2011 promo from Punk, voicing all the frustrations I had,

01:47:50that made me get back in for a long time.

01:47:54And then they brought in The Shield.

01:47:55And they always had something going that I could latch onto after that.

01:47:59But that was the closest I've ever come from that Nexus angle

01:48:02to the Punk Pipe Bomb, to quitting watching wrestling altogether.

01:48:07So if I quit watching wrestling back then,

01:48:11I'm not gonna, you know, bring Luke on or bring you on and stuff.

01:48:17We built the whole company off the back of this pivotal moment.

01:48:20This is like the origin story of my second wave adult fandom of wrestling.

01:48:26And it also came at a time where I was pretty, you know,

01:48:30my university girlfriend would just split up.

01:48:33I had to move back in with my parents.

01:48:34This was all I had, Laurie.

01:48:37This isn't doing the work you think it's doing.

01:48:39So when I listen to it, it's not just,

01:48:42sure, it has the big ramifications for the industry that I argue, at least.

01:48:46And it's just a cool promo in and of itself.

01:48:49But just personally, the work it did for me to sort of support a hero,

01:48:55and it's still why I idolise Punk to this day, no matter what he does.

01:48:59It's, yeah, the personal and the macro both combine.

01:49:05It's more well-rounded than Luke's choice.

01:49:09Final paragraph.

01:49:11I just started watching when the shield came in anyway.

01:49:14We'd have still been here.

01:49:16We'd have still been doing this.

01:49:17We'd have been wearing these t-shirts anymore.

01:49:19Look, I love Pipe Bomb.

01:49:22I do.

01:49:23I think it is an incredible piece of work.

01:49:26I think it is a very important promo in the history of professional wrestling.

01:49:30But I think one promo stands above it, and it's Steiner Math.

01:49:34I was at a Rev Pro show.

01:49:37I don't buy a lot of wrestling merch, but I was at a Rev Pro show,

01:49:40and I was stood behind someone who had a Scott Steiner t-shirt on,

01:49:43and it had the Steiner Math promo written out on it.

01:49:46And I thought to myself, I might buy that t-shirt.

01:49:50Because that's a really funny t-shirt.

01:49:52That is something that everyone in this room gets.

01:49:56Everyone watching at home gets.

01:49:58That is our joke.

01:49:59That is our in thing.

01:50:02It is a promo that has transcended one promotion.

01:50:06It has just become this whole ubiquitous wrestling thing.

01:50:10It is something that collectively we all love.

01:50:15It's not as divisive as the Pipe Bomb promo,

01:50:19done by a guy who is as divisive as CM Punk is.

01:50:22Everybody loves Steiner Math.

01:50:26Okay.

01:50:27It's in your joke.

01:50:28It's in your joke.

01:50:29I think interesting points made on both sides.

01:50:31I think the key...

01:50:32You're both talking about collectivity, I think, is the interesting thing.

01:50:35You're talking about the idea of this wave of fan change behind the scenes,

01:50:40and then this one guy takes this very brave decision,

01:50:44an interesting and crazy decision,

01:50:46to call that out on the biggest platform that you can possibly have.

01:50:49You're talking about the fact that this thing has come from nothing,

01:50:52almost like nobody was watching TNA necessarily,

01:50:55except you losers.

01:50:57And then this promo breaks out and becomes such a part of the wrestling parlance.

01:51:03I imagine how many people have actually seen Sacrifice?

01:51:06It's probably the crazy thing,

01:51:07but I bet most people have seen and can quote the Steiner Math promo.

01:51:14The choice is difficult here,

01:51:15because I think both are very good promos for very different reasons.

01:51:20I think your pipe bomb is giving that voice to the voiceless,

01:51:25and I think Steiner Math...

01:51:28There's no reason for it to be as good as it is.

01:51:30It's just become the thing.

01:51:34And I think that is what sways me,

01:51:38because Punk was telling a promo on the biggest stage of all

01:51:42to a partisan audience.

01:51:44Scott Steiner did this promo that was picked up later,

01:51:47transcended its own origins to become one of the touchstones of wrestling fandom,

01:51:55in a way that the pipe bomb probably isn't.

01:51:57Like the pipe bomb, CM Punk's whole mix is CM Punk might be a cultural touchstone,

01:52:01but this is the defining thing, like you said, for Scott Steiner.

01:52:06Most people don't think about what else Scott Steiner's up to,

01:52:08but they think Steiner Math.

01:52:11So my pick for the best promo is Math.

01:52:16Oh my god.

01:52:19Even at the end I thought you were doing a swerve joke.

01:52:21I don't know how to swerve.

01:52:23Oh my god, I can't believe you've just done this.

01:52:28You can't pull my heartstrings, they're trying to play me.

01:52:32Math wins again!

01:52:33You got minus points for that.

01:52:35Math wins.

01:52:37And that brings this episode of GRIPE BOMB to an end.

01:52:42I don't know...

01:52:43Math! Math! Math! Math! Math! Math!

01:52:46I don't know the schedule.

01:52:47I don't know when we're going to do this again.

01:52:48I've been given no prep to do, but go watch WORST MATCH EVER,

01:52:51which will be linked on the end of this video.

01:52:54We will see you very soon.

01:52:56Jam that jam, everyone.

01:52:57Math that Math!

01:53:00Yeah!

01:53:16So

Who Is The Best Member Of THE SHIELD?! STEINER MATH VS PIPEBOMB SHOWDOWN! | Gripebombs

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