Iran two years after Mahsa Amini: Persecution and defiance
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00:00Our Chief Foreign Officer, Rob Parsons, is joining me here on set to discuss the latest.
00:04Rob, I suppose the crucial question is, two years after these huge demonstrations that rocked Iran,
00:09the launch of the Women's Freedom Movement, has the position of women in Iran improved?
00:16It's hard to say that it has. There was a moment two years ago, over a period of about three
00:21months from September to January 2023, when it really looked as though the regime was tottering.
00:28There were demonstrations right across the country, in places where normally you wouldn't
00:33expect to be very much political activity, right down in the far southeast, for instance,
00:37not just the big cities like Tehran. And the demonstration has sort of morphed from being a
00:43protest about women's rights, the Women Life Freedom Movement, to a movement that challenged
00:50the authority of the Supreme Leader himself, Ali Khamenei. But through a policy of violence
00:58against the demonstrators, which automatic rifle fire was used, hundreds were arrested,
01:03thousands were arrested, 550 people were killed, as you just pointed out, 19,200 were arrested,
01:1110 people were sentenced to death and executed, the most recent of which just a few months ago.
01:18The regime succeeded in beating the opposition down. In part, the opposition's failings were
01:27self-inflicted, they failed to unite around common themes, nationalists and monarchists
01:32and liberals were at each other's throats, and that made life easier for the government. But
01:38essentially, it was the brute force of the regime that managed to beat down the opposition
01:44and put it on the defensive ever since. Over the last year or so, we've seen an increase
01:50in attacks on women not wearing the veil, for instance, in public. Family members of those
01:58who were arrested in 2022 to 2023 harassed themselves. And the government, in the form
02:06of Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, make it absolutely clear there will be no stepping back,
02:10as he put it, unveiling is both religiously forbidden and politically forbidden. That
02:15remains the position of the regime. Could more change be on the way, Rob? Let's not forget,
02:20July this year, Massoud Pazeshkian elected as President of Iran. He's seen as a reformer,
02:25isn't he? But has his administration approved at this stage any way to improve the situation
02:30for women at the moment? Hard to see that it has. Massoud Pazeshkian was elected in July of this
02:36year, an unexpected election, but his predecessor died in a helicopter crash. As you say, he
02:45campaigned as a reformer, and that raised some hopes, not great hopes, it has to be said, because
02:51there have been alleged reformer presidents in Iran before, and it's come to absolutely nothing,
02:57because real power resides with the Supreme Leader, not with the President. But he did campaign,
03:02among other things, for a loosening of the laws on wearing the veil or not wearing the veil in
03:09public. But in April, just before he was elected, a system called Nour, the light, was put in place
03:20to intensify the operations of the police against women not wearing the veil in public. He's done
03:28absolutely nothing, it would seem, to reverse that. Instead, these motorcycle groups of the police,
03:35sometimes on foot, sometimes in cars, have been harassing women to an even increased extent.
03:43And just going through Parliament now, there is a new bill called Support the Culture and
03:50Chastity of Hijab, which many see as a prelude to even more intensified repression of women.
03:55On the other hand, it is true that just a week ago, the Prosecutor General ordered the security
04:02services to show more restraint in their treatment of women who they encounter on the street who are
04:08not wearing the veil. Perhaps the authorities are trying to get some sort of balance, but overall,
04:15it seems that despite the election of an alleged reformer, the situation of women has not got
04:20any better at all.
04:21Rob, it all does sound rather depressing, doesn't it? I mean, two years ago, we had this big event.
04:26It led to mass protests, over 500 people killed, a lot more arrested. But are women basically back
04:34to where they were before Mahsa Remini died?
04:36Yeah, I mean, it is undoubtedly very depressing if you happen to be a woman living in Iran at the
04:42moment, because on the surface of things, in terms of legislation, it's not got any better at all.
04:49One could argue that it's got worse. But there has been, I think, an irrevocable change in the
04:55attitude of not just women on the issue of things like wearing the – or not wearing the veil in
05:01public, but also the attitude of society as a whole. There seems to have been an irrevocable
05:07change. The regime is still in power, but it's in power through the use of – essentially of
05:13brute force. It uses its coercive arm to keep society in place. It doesn't appear to have the
05:19support of society. I suppose the clearest evidence for that came in those elections that we were
05:24talking about just a moment ago in July, when Paz Eshkian became president. The regime devoted
05:33enormous resources to trying to get a big turnout, and yet the turnout was the lowest in the history
05:38of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Just under 40 percent of the electorate turned out to vote.
05:44That is a real indictment of the regime. So by and large, the regime has very little to offer.
05:51Women increasingly, in spite of the pressure on them, can be seen out on the streets, particularly
05:56after dusk, not wearing a veil, flaunting their decision to challenge the authority of the regime.
06:04At the same time, the regime has very little to offer back. In terms of socioeconomic achievement,
06:09nothing is moving forward. Inflation, unemployment incredibly high, sanctions still in place,
06:17and the regime doesn't seem to be offering anybody a way forward to make life better,
06:22either for women as a separate group or a society as a whole.