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00:00They are two leaders united by a common goal – tackling irregular migration to Europe.
00:06On a visit to Rome, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer was keen to learn from his Italian
00:10counterpart after she oversaw what he held as the dramatic reduction in the number of
00:15migrants reaching Italy's shores by boat.
00:18You've made remarkable progress. Irregular arrivals to Italy by sea are down 60% since
00:272022.
00:30Following talks, the two sides say they'll now boost cross-border cooperation to crack
00:33down on people smuggling gangs that are facilitating illegal journeys on the English Channel.
00:39Prime Minister Georgia Maloney says Starmer is particularly interested in her government's
00:43migrant deal with Albania, an agreement that will see Italy open two migrant processing
00:48centres in the Balkan nation, where the claims of 30,000 migrants will be handled each year.
00:54Critics say the plans will violate human rights, allegations Maloney fiercely denies.
00:59I've explained extensively that the migrant centres located in Albania are Italian and
01:06European jurisdiction. Therefore, either you believe that European jurisdiction violates
01:11the human rights of migrants, or unfortunately, this accusation does not have any basis.
01:21Starmer is also under fire over his interest in the Albania agreement, with some saying
01:25the deal echoes the previous UK government's Rwanda plan that was abandoned in July.
01:31The British Prime Minister insists Italy's scheme is different.
01:35The mere fact that Starmer met Maloney, who heads the far-right Brothers of Italy party,
01:39has ruffled feathers within the Labour leader's own ranks.
01:42Speaking to The Guardian, Labour MP Kim Johnson said it was disturbing to see Starmer seeking
01:47to learn lessons from a neo-fascist government.
01:50Indeed, picking up on Yinka's final remark there, they do make an odd couple and of course
01:55will watch for developments in their possible joint policy on the migrant issue. Watch this
02:01space.
02:02Let's bring in for more analysis on this story, Lorenzo Castellani, Professor in the History
02:06of Institutions, joining us from Rome. Good evening, sir. On the face of it, as I was
02:11just saying, Starmer and Maloney have very little in common except this migrant issue.
02:16Yes, true. But what we can say is that what we are seeing now in Europe is that the migrant
02:25issue is becoming a cross-party issue, and for many aspects it seems to be depoliticized
02:33from previous years, where there were very harsh divisions among parties everywhere.
02:41Now it is considered an emergency by governments of any color, and there are common solutions
02:48that are emerging. One is the Italian model, so the idea, let's say, to contract out for
02:55many aspects the receipt of asylum seekers, as it happens with the agreement with Albania.
03:05Others are working more on their borders, as the Germans or the French, but it became
03:11very clear that in order to govern migration, it is necessary to do something more compared
03:18to the past, because it's a very sensitive political and social issue, and not only an
03:24international one. And so on this point, I think the Italian government is performing
03:30well, at least in terms of communication and in managing the political deal both at European
03:38level and at domestic level. Indeed, having a center-left British prime minister standing
03:43up there and seemingly having so much in common with a far-right Italian prime minister clearly
03:48is making some people think, how is this ever happening? But as you point out quite rightly,
03:53this story of the migrant crisis, call it what you will, is something that is cutting
03:58across all political divides, so it's been recognized across the board as a big problem.
04:03Italy's Albania plan, as compared to the previous UK plan of sending migrants to Rwanda, how
04:11do you assess the differences between those two? Clearly, Labour has scrapped Rwanda,
04:15but of course Italy has this very successful, it seems, idea of sending the migrants to
04:20Albania, and then the assessment is done there. Yes, the two agreements were very similar.
04:28The model is the same. Italy has a privileged relationship with Albania for historical reasons,
04:35and so it is a reliable partner for Italy, and Melania as well has a very good relationship
04:42with Adirama. So the idea is that the asylum seekers are hosted by hubs in Albania waiting
04:51for the response from Italian jurisdiction and European one on their rights to get the
04:56asylum or not, and eventually being repatriated if it's not the case. So this is the model.
05:04I think that there are other countries that are thinking about such a solution,
05:11but what is difficult to achieve is to have a partner, a known EU partner, that is available
05:21to work together with European nations on this issue. So from this point of view,
05:26Albania is quite a special case. It wouldn't be so easy for, for example, the British government
05:33to find other partners, but it became very clear that you need agreement with known EU or
05:41non-European countries if you want to govern immigration, avoiding many deaths in the seas,
05:51migration crisis, public order, and social disease. So this is, of course, necessary,
06:01and it's not a matter of politics, but I think that at this stage it's a matter of relationship
06:07among governments. So it's not about left and right, but it's bilateral, multilateral relationship
06:13among governments. We will see how it develops. Lorenzo, thank you for joining us. Lorenzo
06:17Castellani there, joining us from Rome. Thank you very much indeed, sir. Very welcome.