One of the world's biggest employers Amazon has ordered all of its employees back to the office five days a week next year apart from exceptional circumstances, the company's CEO Andy Jassy says the advantages of workers being together in the office outweigh workplace flexibility.
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00:00Global surveys have shown that people want to work two to three days a week at home and
00:07the same amount of time in the office. We know that hybrid working works, that it is
00:12good for employee engagement, employee well-being, it leads to increased productivity, and so
00:19this is just a real knee-jerk reaction by Amazon to get people back into the office.
00:27It's good that they want connections between people, that can be done online. If people
00:32are working from home full-time, there are some difficulties with people connecting and
00:39having those social connections, but with hybrid working, you get the best of both worlds
00:44and so you can have deep thinking time at home and then you can go and interact with
00:49your colleagues. So I think it's definitely a backward step from Amazon.
00:54So go into a bit more detail for us on the evidence. What does the evidence show about
00:58productivity and collegiality working from home versus the office? Because that's what
01:04Amazon wants and obviously the bottom line for Amazon is the dollar. It thinks that this
01:11will be more productive in the long run.
01:13Yes, that's right. Globally, the research shows that hybrid working is just as productive
01:20as when people work from the office, and in some cases, it's more productive. When
01:25people are working hybridly, they can concentrate at home, there are fewer interruptions. The
01:32research that we've done over years and years, people keep telling us that they really value
01:37working from home because there are fewer interruptions, there's less noise, and so
01:42it is very good for productivity. One study has found that the attrition rates decreased
01:50by 30% when employees were working hybridly, which is a significant productivity savings.
01:58In terms of employee engagement, working hybridly, as I said, it's the best of both worlds. People
02:04go into the office, they can interact with their colleagues, they can network, they can
02:10do team building exercises, and so they get that in the office and then they get that
02:16deep, quiet thinking time at home. So it's a win-win situation for workers and for organisations.
02:23So if that's the case, why do you think Amazon is heading down this path?
02:28I think it is just a really easy reaction. I'm not sure what the problem is. If they've
02:36identified that there is a loss of connection between people, I think it's a knee-jerk reaction
02:43where they've said, bring everyone back. It is a really blunt instrument. People will
02:47come back to offices when offices are really welcoming and inclusive and they want to go
02:55back to the offices. The days of people sitting in little cubicles not talking to their colleagues
03:02are gone and people want to go to the office, they want to engage in collaboration, in team
03:08building exercises and make those really meaningful connections in the office. That
03:14said, they can do that two or three days a week. It doesn't need to be five days a week.
03:19So I think it is a really simplistic solution to trying to create connections between employees.
03:26Are many other companies insisting on workers heading back to work now?
03:31Well, the most famous recent example, of course, is the New South Wales government, which came
03:37out with a directive that said people have to consider that their public sector agency is their
03:44place of work, their primary place of work. That caused a whole lot of backlash and the Premier
03:50of New South Wales then came out and said, OK, people can work hybridly. So that was a good step.
03:56Now, however, we see that the New South Wales government is enforcing this. So that is the most
04:02recent example. But there have been a lot of organisations over the past year or so that
04:09have required employees to come back full time to the office. And some of those are big tech
04:16companies. But it is an increasing trend that we're seeing at the moment, which goes contrary
04:22to all the existing research that says that hybrid working works.
04:26And how does Australia compare internationally in terms of the
04:31balance, the work from home and work from the office balance now?
04:37So, recent data shows that 100 million employees across Europe and North America
04:44are working hybridly, which is a huge number. The stats in Australia aren't as robust.
04:51It's estimated that between 37 to 45% of employees are working hybridly. So,
05:00ABS statistics state that 37% of employees are working from home at least some of the time. So,
05:07that would include people who are working remotely all the time, as well as hybrid working. Other
05:12research says it's around 45%. So, it's still a significant number of people in Australia
05:19who are working hybridly at the moment. And do you think that's here to stay?
05:25I think it is here to stay. I think all the calls for employees to come back to the office
05:31full time, I think it's too late. That pause has bolted, the gate has closed,
05:36all those other cliches. The world is changing. Ways of working are changing. And organisations
05:43will be successful who experiment and embrace new ways of working, which leads to innovations
05:50and increased productivities. So, rather than forcing people to go back into the office,
05:56try new things, see what else works. And that's good for everyone.