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00:00Andrea Domínguez, Investigation Superiors.
00:10Well, in the case of Rodrigo Hidalgo,
00:13which like every media culpa, leaves us many topics to reflect on.
00:18That's why our panelists are here tonight,
00:21whom I will welcome right now.
00:23As always, we are accompanied by Andrés Domínguez,
00:26a criminologist, professor at the Institute of Higher Research,
00:29Jorge Costini, who is a professor at the Institute Superior de Carabineros, and Carlos Pinto.
00:37Good evening and welcome to this space of conversation.
00:40Andres, I would like to direct the first question to you so that it places us on this topic.
00:45Are there many young Chileans who are in the situation of Rodrigo Hidalgo?
00:50There are two situations in Rodrigo.
00:52One is the promotion of young people who came to this country at a time when adults did not understand us
01:00and that we had an insoluble and very violent conflict everywhere,
01:06and on both sides or on all sides that the conflict would have had,
01:10and that they do not understand anything of what is happening and that they have to live experiences as traumatic as exile,
01:16the return to a country that continues in the conflict.
01:20That affects a huge number of young people in this country, and it is good to be aware of that.
01:27And a particular situation for him, which is the option that he takes, as he says in the program, in his narration,
01:36and that leads him to a set of extraordinarily serious criminal acts,
01:41but at the same time one discovers the person who does it and discovers it in two totally different moments.
01:48A moment of great disorientation, of great deviation from all his ability to create, to be a complete human being,
01:56and then he discovers it in that moment of self-destruction through crime.
02:02And I believe that, thanks to God, and this must be thanked to our culture,
02:08and especially to the Chilean family and the friendship between so many people,
02:13it is extraordinarily unusual for the young people who had that experience to have reached that extreme of crime that Rodrigo reached.
02:23I ask this, Andrés, because there is the belief that many young people who participated in these movements are now criminals,
02:31with which you point out that outside that myth or that belief.
02:35Indeed, I am not saying that there are none, that would be absurd, but there are extraordinarily few.
02:43And that is not the criminogenic factor, because in the case of Rodrigo it is seen that it is not that the criminogenic factor that leads him to crime.
02:51It is not continuity, but it is the rupture that leads him to crime.
02:58And it is a rupture in front of which he is not able to orient himself, and he falls, as he himself says,
03:03in something that he would have never wanted to happen today, and that he feels guilty of having done it,
03:09and he feels responsible for that, and even thinks of the victims of his actions.
03:14Giorgio, why do you think that Rodrigo Hidalgo came to have this criminal conduct?
03:21He introduces himself, as he points out, in a party very idealized by him, at a very early age,
03:29where he also believes that this utopian society is going to exist, where everything is going to be resolved.
03:34And if it is not resolved, it can be resolved by two things.
03:38One, in the intellectual plane, by the ideological path, and in the material plane, by the path of armed struggle.
03:45He poses it like this, and I think that what happens next is that, being a teenager, he suffers a very strong thing.
03:53He is, as a good teenager, still looking for many answers in the face of life,
03:57and what are the things that he is going to fight in the future, what are his goals.
04:00And in the face of that, the Berlin Wall falls, therefore the ideologies fall,
04:05and it also falls, I would say, as the ideological source that sustains the armed struggle.
04:12Which, incidentally, it is good to say for all the public, even maybe for those who are watching this,
04:16who believe to be militants, that the armed struggle has never historically shown to be an efficient or effective way
04:24to achieve a better state. That is an absolutely clear and verifiable fallacy.
04:31But he continues to participate in this, and suddenly this falls to him.
04:34Then he produces, what I found, a very great internal rupture, a very great existential crisis,
04:40and in the face of this existential crisis, as he already understands that he had assumed this of participating in the armed struggle,
04:47and therefore he had a knowledge of weapons, he begins to use that already as a kind of unconscious revenge
04:55against the society that has defrauded him. That is, the world of adults has defrauded him.
04:59He says, well, deep down this thing does not exist, there is no ideology,
05:03there is no paradisiacal world of perfect society, and therefore what do I do?
05:09Well, then, now that I am trained for this, I am going to use it to my advantage,
05:14because even that money is not given to the party either, it has already been marginalized from there.
05:18And Paulola, this woman that we have also seen in our program, love,
05:23again makes the most human person, forces him to reflect and forces him in some way to change.
05:29He is in that moment that says, well, what do I do with this?
05:33And he begins to become from an extreme, the ideal extreme, to a materialist extreme,
05:40and then he becomes a criminal.
05:42Jorge, but there will be no personal characteristics of him that we get more inside this explanation,
05:48because not all the young people who were in his situation, but as Andrés says, very few,
05:53have fallen into this of having to become criminals.
05:56Of course, indeed, in this particular case, he himself recognizes it,
06:02that he could have opted, because he is a man who enters the university,
06:05that is, he has a normal intellectual capacity.