11th Hour | Waseem Badami | ARY News | 26th September 2024
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00:00In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
00:27It seems that Mr. Imran Khan has also realized that
00:32in the recent past, in terms of the establishment,
00:35even though he had a gentle attitude for a few days,
00:38with the hope that perhaps a positive answer will come from there too.
00:41But it didn't come.
00:42After that, the frustration increased.
00:44And now he feels that perhaps the matter is not going to move forward.
00:47Until a few days ago, it was a policy to see
00:50if there is a way to talk, if a matter is resolved.
00:53And today's policy seems to be very clear
00:55that now he is saying this because he is seeing that there is no answer from there.
00:59So now he is saying that we don't want to talk at all.
01:01We don't want to talk to the establishment at all.
01:04The background to this is also that a few days ago,
01:08in our program on the 11th,
01:10the Secretary of Justice of Pakistan, who is no longer the Secretary of Justice today,
01:16and one impression is that this statement that he has given in this program,
01:20that may have been the reason for his dismissal.
01:22Mr. Rauf Hassan has said more than once in very clear words
01:28that the Pakistan Secretary of Justice is willing to talk to the army.
01:32The Pakistan Secretary of Justice was willing to talk to the army yesterday and is still willing.
01:35The Pakistan Secretary of Justice should talk to the army.
01:38We always want to talk.
01:39We did not hold the army responsible for the obstructions put in the Jalsa,
01:42but held the administration responsible.
01:44All this was after that,
01:45when Imran Khan had already made a statement on September 10 from the jail,
01:48that now we will not talk to the establishment.
01:50We don't want to talk, it's all over.
01:52But after that, when Mr. Rauf Hassan made this statement,
01:55eyebrows were raised that what is the real policy of the PTI?
01:58Because Mr. Rauf Hassan said that this is the policy of our party.
02:03And of course, he is the Secretary of Justice of the party,
02:04so he is the official spokesperson of the party.
02:06First, you see, there is a lot more news to discuss today,
02:08but at the beginning, see how Mr. Rauf Hassan,
02:12in a two-stroke manner, expressed his desire
02:16that there should be a conversation between the establishment and the PTI.
02:21This is the policy of the PTI,
02:24that we want to engage with the establishment.
02:26We want to engage with them even today.
02:28In fact, I would like to go one step further.
02:30A dialogue between the PTI and the establishment
02:33has become indispensable for this state.
02:37And we should not delay it.
02:39This is inevitable, it has to happen.
02:41If not today, it will happen tomorrow, if not tomorrow, it will happen the day after tomorrow.
02:43We are ready for this.
02:45And we were ready before, and we are ready today.
02:47We want to engage with them in every way possible.
02:49If I complete this sentence, it will be fine that it is the policy of the PTI
02:52that we want to engage with the establishment, we want to talk to them.
02:56And in today's date, it is at least their policy
02:58that we do not want to talk to them at all.
03:00I completely disagree with this latter part.
03:04I will not say that this is not their policy at all.
03:07They have engaged with the PTI.
03:09So why should I expect them to engage again?
03:12Or do they want to engage?
03:13When did they engage?
03:15For that, the environment will have to be created.
03:17For that, we will have to try and the environment will have to be created
03:22so that both the parties can sit at the table and talk about the country.
03:27You are telling them not to hold the 22nd Jalsa in Islamabad
03:30because the religious communities are coming.
03:31Are you telling them to engage?
03:34Look, they talked to us, we engaged with them,
03:37and they are still engaged.
03:38I call it engagement.
03:39I do not want to come here with a special praise for engagement.
03:43So this is the whole matter.
03:45After that, there was a debate.
03:49On social media, even Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf's staffers
03:52criticized Mr. Rauf Hassan that Mr. Khan is saying that we do not want to talk.
03:56You are saying that we are content to talk. What is happening?
03:59And there was a debate that what is the real matter?
04:01What is the real policy of the PTI?
04:04We spoke to Mr. Lateef Khussa yesterday in our program.
04:07He also expressed his opinion on the matter.
04:09Anyway, after this debate,
04:11today for the first time, Mr. Imran Khan had a clear interaction.
04:14Mr. Imran Khan was asked today that Mr. Rauf Hassan is the secretary of your party.
04:18And he says that we should talk to the establishment.
04:20We are content to talk to the establishment.
04:23What is Mr. Imran Khan's answer?
04:24Mr. Imran Khan said that Rauf Hassan has a misunderstanding.
04:27This is not true.
04:28He himself has been wanting to meet Rauf Hassan for a month.
04:30He is not allowed to meet him, but he has a misunderstanding.
04:32This is not true at all.
04:34And there is no point in talking to him now.
04:36So the ways to talk to him are closed.
04:38We will not talk to him.
04:40This is what Mr. Imran Khan had to say.
04:42He was also asked,
04:44is this the same instruction for your CM K.P.K. Ali Amin Ghandapur?
04:47He said that this is the same instruction.
04:49We will not talk to him.
04:50This is what happened.
04:51After some time,
04:53after some time, another development took place.
04:56And that development was that suddenly a statement came,
04:58a notification came that on the instruction of Mr. Imran Khan,
05:01Sheikh Waqas Akram has been appointed as the Central Secretary of Pakistan Justice.
05:07That is, Mr. Rauf Hassan was removed from his post.
05:10It became an impression that the reason was this statement
05:14in which he expressed his willingness to talk to the 12 establishments.
05:19And then after a while another notification came
05:21and that was that Mr. Rauf Hassan has been made the head of the party policy think tank of Pakistan Justice.
05:28Now we have to see what this matter is.
05:30And if the reason for this is the same as it seems,
05:33then it means that where this itself is a news,
05:37there is also a bigger news than this
05:38that it means Pakistan Justice
05:40and someone is guessing that the way to talk to the establishment is not being made.
05:44And now they are also going all out on their own.
05:48And this matter is going this way.
05:50This is one development of today.
05:52Today, another very big development has taken place
05:54before we go to our guests.
05:57And what is that development?
05:58Very big news is coming from the biggest court in Pakistan.
06:03And we will tell you about it in detail at the end of the program.
06:07The biggest two judges of the biggest court in Pakistan
06:11have no secrets now.
06:13They are openly expressing their differences with each other by writing letters against each other.
06:20And what is this matter?
06:21We will also tell you about it.
06:22And another development of today is that
06:25today we have met the delegation of Pakistan Justice and Maulana Fadlur Rehman.
06:33And yesterday we met Maulana Fadlur Rehman of some journalists.
06:37In all this, Maulana Fadlur Rehman's role is very important.
06:41If he wants, there will be development and if he does not want, there will be no development.
06:45So we will also talk about all these things.
06:49So let's start the conversation first.
06:51Today, the meeting of Pakistan Justice,
06:54Mr. Hamid Reza Sahib and Mr. Salman Akram Rai Sahib were present.
06:58So Mr. Hamid Reza Sahib is with us in this program.
07:01Mr. Rashid Sumro will join us from Maulana Fadlur Rehman's party at any moment.
07:06And we will also meet Mr. Kashif Abbasi.
07:10So that we can learn from him.
07:11We met Maulana Fadlur Rehman's journalists yesterday.
07:14He was present there.
07:16Mr. Hamid Reza Sahib, Assalamu Alaikum.
07:21Walaikum Assalam, Haseen Bhai. How are you?
07:23Sir, Alhamdulillah. Thank you very much for giving me time.
07:25So sir, tell me,
07:27yesterday we met some of our journalists with Maulana Fadlur Rehman.
07:31We got an impression from their conversation.
07:33Now we will directly ask Mr. Kashif Abbasi.
07:36They feel that Maulana Fadlur Rehman is on board
07:40and will support the government on the matter of justice and development.
07:44Did you get the impression from the meeting today
07:46that Maulana Fadlur Rehman is not on board
07:47and PTI and Maulana Fadlur Rehman will adopt the same common policy?
07:52In the name of Allah, the most merciful, the most merciful.
07:54Haseen Bhai, I may not be able to go into too much detail,
07:58but let me tell you that the impression that was given yesterday
08:03or the impression that was developed
08:06that Maulana Fadlur Rehman has agreed with the government on something
08:11and the matters have been finalised,
08:12this is not the case.
08:15Maulana Fadlur Rehman is still adamant
08:19that he will not allow anything that is against basic human rights
08:24or against basic fundamentals
08:26to be used against him in any way.
08:33In addition to this,
08:35in the previous meetings when the government was implementing the law,
08:40a situation developed in an emergency.
08:44We were busy in the matter of Parliament's bloodshed.
08:48Since I was a part of it,
08:49all of a sudden, the issue of amendment was brought to us by the government.
08:54At that time, a lot of things were not prepared.
08:58By preparation, I mean that it was totally unexpected.
09:02But this time, all the preparations have been made.
09:08And this was also agreed upon.
09:11Maulana Fadlur Rehman said that a committee should be formed
09:15with which Salman Akram Raza has also agreed
09:18that through that committee,
09:21the position of Maulana Fadlur Rehman,
09:23the position of the UIA,
09:25the position of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf and their allies should be brought forward.
09:31So, you are saying that yesterday,
09:34they tried to give an impression.
09:36Different journalists were sitting and after Maulana Fadlur Rehman's speech,
09:39they drew a conclusion.
09:40So, they gave the same impression.
09:42So, will it be right to say, Mr. Hamid Raza,
09:46that whatever action will be taken regarding the amendment,
09:48will it be a co-operation between you and Maulana Fadlur Rehman?
09:54Look, Mr. Waseem Adhami,
09:55we cannot say for sure that this will happen in politics.
10:00But the principles on which Maulana Fadlur Rehman is standing,
10:03his community is standing, the UIAF,
10:05on that, we can say that Maulana Fadlur Rehman did not back down from his position.
10:12And he is standing on his principal position.
10:16And are you confident that this will happen in the future as well?
10:24Yes, Mr. Waseem, I am confident.
10:26When I went there last time,
10:28and the special committee that was formed in the National Assembly,
10:33before the meeting, the last meeting that took place,
10:36Mr. Umar Ayub was there, I was there,
10:38Mr. Gohar Khan was there, Mr. Shibli Faraz was there,
10:41we were four or five people.
10:43When I came out, I said only one thing.
10:45All the journalists insisted that I comment on something.
10:49I told them that I am coming back with a smiling face.
10:54So, you take the result from this smile.
10:57Okay, Mr. Hamid, you have smiled today as well,
11:01and you have smiled very meaningfully.
11:02In fact, I would like to tell the viewers
11:04that the meeting between Salman Akram Raja Sahib and Hamid Sahib with Maulana Sahib,
11:09and what Salman Akram Raja Sahib is saying to the viewers,
11:11you have to listen to Salman Akram Raja Sahib,
11:14but you have to see Hamid Raja Sahib.
11:16And the meaningful smile on his face,
11:18you have to see that, but before that,
11:21Hamid Raja Sahib gave us an opinion about Maulana Sahib four or six months ago.
11:26First, show us that.
11:27So, we will ask Mr. Hamid Sahib if it is time to return to that opinion.
11:31First, show us what was Mr. Hamid's opinion about Maulana Sahib,
11:35and whether it is good or bad today.
11:37Is there any possibility of Maulana Sahib joining this unity?
11:40My point of view about Maulana Sahib is that
11:42he will only join this unity to increase his value.
11:45After achieving his target, he will leave this unity.
11:48I am against his joining this unity in my personal capacity,
11:51and in the capacity of my party.
11:57Practically, I have some things that I don't want to say,
12:01and maybe I won't do it either,
12:02but they are such that on the basis of which I am so convinced
12:05that Maulana will ditch us at some stage, at some point.
12:09Maulana will ditch us at some stage.
12:11Are you still in danger, or do you want to return to your opinion, Mr. Hamid?
12:18No, Mr. Wasim, the first thing is that when I went to Maulana's house for the first time,
12:24you can ask there that I categorized and in the presence of Maulana,
12:29I said that Maulana Sahib,
12:31I am one of those people who never go back on what I say,
12:37or I remain steadfast on what I say,
12:39or at least if I have a wrong point of view, I accept it.
12:45I have always opposed you, and I have not opposed you since a long time.
12:50There were different grounds for that.
12:52And Maulana used to talk to the media in front of the Supreme Court,
12:58and before that, in a press conference, the way he expressed his feelings about me,
13:04after that, I think morally, I was also bound to at least respond to him in a positive manner.
13:13And my opinion at that time, in terms of joining the unity,
13:17that unity was being talked about by Tehrik-e-Tahfuz-e-Ayn-e-Pakistan,
13:20which already had the party of Mangal Sahib,
13:23whose head is Mahmood Khan Achakzai Sahib, Raja Nasir Abbas Sahib,
13:27Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf, Sunil Dutt Council.
13:31At that time, the unity was also being talked about,
13:36because Maulana Sahib did not want to join the unity.
13:40This is something that Maulana said today as well.
13:42It was clear from the first day that he would not join the unity.
13:45He never even gave us hope that we would join.
13:48But you said that we would be ditched.
13:50Do you think that Maulana Sahib proved you wrong and did not ditch you and will not do it?
13:55Yes, of course. I am saying this openly.
13:57I have said before that I always accept what I say and I think I should do it.
14:03My opinion was proven wrong.
14:05When we went to Maulana last time,
14:08and the pressure that was on Maulana at that time,
14:10I am a witness to that and I also know about the circumstances he was going through.
14:15So, I openly admit that at that time,
14:19not only my opinion, but the opinion of many of our colleagues was proven wrong.
14:24And Maulana proved our opinion wrong with his opinion.
14:27And I think if your opinion is proven wrong in politics,
14:32then instead of having ifs and buts in it,
14:36if you accept it with a smile, there is nothing bad in it.
14:39Absolutely right. I completely agree.
14:42Okay, I will run the short that I am talking about in a little while.
14:47But Rashid Sumro and Kashif Abai are also here.
14:49Kashif, can you hear me? As-salamu alaykum.
14:51Walaykum as-salam. I am your lawyer.
14:53Kashif, from today's meeting,
14:55the impression of Hamid Radha and Salman Rehman Rai Sahib
14:58is that Maulana will go with the PTI in this matter.
15:02And my impression is that from tomorrow's meeting,
15:05your impression is that Maulana will go on board with the government.
15:09Am I right?
15:11Yes, this is our impression after yesterday's meeting.
15:16So, the meeting with Maulana that took place two and a half hours ago,
15:19this was our take-away from that meeting.
15:22I will tell you what Maulana Sahib said to us.
15:25He said that the opposition was very strict on Article 8 and 9.
15:29That's right.
15:29The government said to us that we have taken it back.
15:31Okay.
15:33He also said to us that if the military court is with Sunset Clause for two years,
15:38then there is no harm.
15:39This is very important. Wait a minute.
15:41Maulana Sahib said that if the military court is with Ifs and Buts for two years,
15:46then there is no harm.
15:48Yes.
15:49And his justification was that terrorists are caught here.
15:54They are released. It is better to go to the military courts.
15:57We pointed out that this is the case of 9th May.
16:01He said that whoever has done it, will go to the military court.
16:06He said that the Greek on board is saying that the government is saying this.
16:13We are going to make a constitutional court on your instructions.
16:17This is the Indian court.
16:17That's right.
16:18So, can I oppose this or not?
16:21He said that it is being made on my instructions.
16:23So, there is an objection on the constitutional court
16:25that the judges of Madhya Pradesh are being put in a separate court.
16:29So, Maulana Sahib is on board on that too.
16:31Then, on the transfer of judges,
16:33the judges of the High Court can be transferred.
16:36On that, Kamran Murtaza Sahib said that I am in his favour.
16:41Personally.
16:42Okay.
16:43So, it means that there too, there is a taker of this.
16:47Yes.
16:48That this can be done.
16:50So, on many points, Maulana Sahib was on board that we can do this.
16:58That is, on the Indian court, on the military court, etc.
17:01Maulana Sahib was on board that we can work with the government on all these things.
17:06We exchange notes.
17:08We go out and do the cleaning.
17:11This is the opinion of the law, Maulana Sahib.
17:13We will agree.
17:15This is the kind of conversation that will take place.
17:16So, how do you interpret this?
17:18That this is an opinion that all of you have taken
17:20and our other colleagues are saying the same thing that you have said.
17:23And on the other hand,
17:24Hamid Raza Sahib and Salman Khan Rai Sahib are taking the exact opposite opinion.
17:27So, what is happening, Mr. Kashif?
17:30Look, we are taking an opinion.
17:33They are being told something.
17:35We are taking an opinion.
17:36With their arguments, Maulana Sahib's arguments,
17:39they are endorsing and justifying those things.
17:43On which, the actual, on which, all the witnesses did not agree.
17:47Now, you look at the age of the judges.
17:49They said that in Bangladesh, the age is 67.
17:52Yes.
17:53So, there is no harm in that.
17:55You know that 67-68 is the age of the Constitutional Court.
17:59Because someone is 65 years old.
18:01So, three years have to be added to that.
18:02So, there was no objection to that.
18:04They were also giving arguments that this happens in Bangladesh.
18:06This happens in other countries.
18:07Look, this Constitutional Court is in I don't know how many countries.
18:11I remember, I said to them,
18:13I said, common law versus civil law is an argument.
18:15They are giving an argument that it doesn't happen in common law.
18:18It happens in civil law in those countries.
18:21But, Mr. Kamran Murtaza didn't argue with us on that.
18:25But, again, I am saying,
18:27at many points, Maulana Sahib was giving us arguments.
18:30In fact, I was sitting with Mr. Raoul Kalasa.
18:32No.
18:33So, Mr. Raoul said something in my ear.
18:35He said, Mr. Kashif,
18:37ask him, he will tell you.
18:38He said, we are here to do good. What are we here for?
18:41I said, sir, we are here to endorse this.
18:44The Constitutional Court is telling us that this is happening.
18:47And this is a good thing.
18:49So, I will ask Mr. Rashid.
18:53Then, I will ask Mr. Hamid that you were told about the benefits
18:56of the Military Court for two years.
18:58The benefits of the Constitutional Court forever.
19:00So, what has been told to him
19:02that he is so sure that Maulana Sahib will support him?
19:04That is, he will not vote for these things.
19:06Rashid Sumrata, will you make this difficult for us?
19:08What are your intentions?
19:10Ghaseem Bhai, first of all, thank you very much.
19:13And Mr. Rashid Abbasi had said that
19:16it is very difficult to understand a don and a Maulana.
19:20Before I come to my conversation,
19:22I would like to thank Mr. Hamid Raza a lot.
19:26The way he used words for Maulana Fazlur Rahman Sahib here,
19:33he is worthy of praise.
19:34I and my entire community look at his words with respect.
19:39You are not taking it as a joke, right?
19:40You are saying it from your heart.
19:42No, no, absolutely not.
19:43There is respect and respect for him.
19:46I would like to tell you something, Ghaseem Bhai.
19:49I was with you on the live show that day.
19:51I was with you in the studio.
19:53If you can pick up that conversation of mine
19:56and show it to the nation,
19:57I had told you clearly that day
20:01that Jamiatul Ulema of Islam
20:03have no objection in the legal court or the judicial reforms.
20:09The thing is that we have a clear and clear position.
20:14In the coming reform,
20:16Maulana Sahib had said that there will be no extension.
20:21Maulana Sahib had said that there will be no increase in age.
20:25We have fulfilled these two things.
20:29Now, regarding the judicial reforms,
20:31Maulana Sahib was standing on the floor of the assembly
20:34that judicial reforms should be done.
20:36We want judicial reforms to be done.
20:38But today, I am adding one more thing.
20:41You can keep that on your record.
20:43What is that?
20:44If there is anything in this constitutional amendment
20:48that will clash with the human rights charter,
20:51that will clash with the constitution of Pakistan,
20:53that will clash with the rights of the people,
20:56Jamiatul Ulema of Islam will not support it.
21:00But we believe that there should be reforms in the courts.
21:05Please make it simpler, Rashid Bhai.
21:08Any amendment that will be done for a specific period of time,
21:11not forever.
21:12For example, for two years,
21:14civilians' military trials,
21:16because the situation is so bad,
21:17if it is made easy,
21:20is it a demand for national security
21:23or a violation of human rights?
21:26I am surprised to hear this from Kashif Abbasi.
21:30He said that Maulana Fadlur Rahman supported the military courts.
21:35I am surprised myself. I wasn't at that meeting.
21:38I think Kashif Sahib is also surprised.
21:40What is he saying?
21:42But yesterday, Asma Shirazi also said the same thing.
21:45This is not the case.
21:47Maybe it is difficult to understand.
21:49You were not there, Rashid Sahib. How can you say that?
21:51You were not there, Rashid Bhai.
21:52No, Kashif Bhai said that we are waiting for the result.
21:55Anyone can wait for the result.
21:58The real thing will be...
21:59If he had said something, he would have waited for the result, right, Rashid Sahib?
22:03One sentence, Wasim Bhai, one sentence.
22:04Please give me permission.
22:06Please give me permission.
22:08The ground matter.
22:10That day, the whole of Pakistan saw it in the history of the assembly.
22:14We took a stand.
22:15Even today, we are at the same stand.
22:17Sahibzada Hamid Raza Sahib is with you.
22:19He met Maulana Sahib today.
22:21The whole nation is listening to his conversation on record.
22:24Maulana Fazlur Rahman was punished from day one
22:30for standing with the constitution, law and democracy.
22:33He was punished for not presenting himself.
22:36He was punished for not saying yes in yes and no in no.
22:40We are ready to bear this punishment further.
22:43There is nothing greater than Pakistan and the people.
22:46We have not made the first deal of public interest, nor will we do so in the future.
22:49Kashif Sahib is surprised. What are you attributing to his leader?
22:51He is saying, I am surprised to hear from Kashif Sahib what he is saying.
22:54He is saying that Maulana Sahib is speaking in favour of the military court.
22:57And Ashish Sahib is a letter note.
22:59Maulana Sahib has made such a statement that you are even more surprised.
23:02Kashif Sahib, please tell us.
23:04You may not know as much as I know.
23:06Of course, I don't know.
23:08Of course, it is obvious.
23:09You are a hundred times better than me.
23:11Remember one thing.
23:12Maulana Sahib is probably the smartest politician in the political spectrum.
23:18Right.
23:19No one should have any doubts about this.
23:22Yes.
23:22I have told you the exact sentence when he said that a two-year sunset clause.
23:28He also said that this is the first time.
23:30So, I told him.
23:31I said, no, sir.
23:32Even last time when the military court came,
23:34at that time, the sunset clause came.
23:36So, he said this.
23:38Repeat the sentence, Ashish Sahib.
23:39What exactly did he say?
23:40That a two-year...
23:41He said, look, in this country, many missing persons
23:46and many people's cases do not go on.
23:48It is good that there will be courts and military courts.
23:50Their cases will go to some court.
23:52Otherwise, there will be a lot of problems from here.
23:54Missing persons will come and so on.
23:56So, he said this.
23:57In fact, someone said, sir, you know, this is not for them.
23:59This is...
24:00For the people of Navami.
24:01This is for the people of Navami.
24:02Yes.
24:03It was a very good answer.
24:04He did not say that yes, it should be for them too.
24:06He said that whoever is involved in the installation,
24:10it should also be in the trial military court.
24:13So, we got up after a two and a half hour session.
24:16We did not argue while walking.
24:19And Mr. Somrao's point is absolutely correct.
24:21Mr. Maulana said that at our behest,
24:23the amendments in Article 8 and 9, which are of fundamental rights,
24:27the government told us that we took them back because of you.
24:30Mr. Bilawal has said this before.
24:31Yes, he has said that.
24:32So, the human rights that you were talking about,
24:36the amendment that was in Article 8,
24:39the government had already announced that it would take it back.
24:43Okay.
24:43I told you about the legal court that Mr. Maulana says that the government says that...
24:48And what Mr. Somrao is also saying,
24:50the amendment is in the court.
24:51Now, the game that will be played in the name of amendment,
24:54will be in the name of amendment.
24:56What is amendment?
24:58Amendment means that you make a constitutional court,
25:01that is, a legal court, and put a judge of your choice in it.
25:05Stop the path of those judges about whom you are afraid
25:08that they are either on the other side, or are against us,
25:11or they are not controllable.
25:13Okay, okay.
25:14Now, this amendment...
25:15And Mr. Kashi, before I go to Mr. Hamid,
25:17did he say anything about the date,
25:19that by the end of the day, we will be busy with our meetings,
25:22I don't know, party activities,
25:23and after that, we will have a constitutional court.
25:24Did he say anything like that?
25:25No, no. He said that the community is in the process of an election.
25:31Okay.
25:31And because of that, they cannot make a final announcement,
25:34because all the offices, I think, are suspended.
25:38Right.
25:38But this groundwork is being done,
25:40for the next parliament, or whatever will come,
25:44whatever their structure is,
25:46the party hierarchy,
25:48this groundwork is being done for them.
25:50Okay.
25:51In which Mr. Kamran Murtaza,
25:53and other constitutional candidates who will be sharing,
25:55this groundwork is being done for them.
25:57Right.
25:57But the community is in the process of an election.
26:00Noted, sir. Okay.
26:01Mr. Hamid Raza, today it has happened that
26:06from your side, Mr. Salman Raja,
26:08and from there, Mr. Kamran Murtaza will work on a constitutional candidate,
26:12and will try to reach a joint consensus.
26:14Is this right?
26:17Yes, first of all, I would like to thank Mr. Rashid Somroo.
26:21In politics, such attitudes should be maintained.
26:25Right.
26:26Secondly, Mr. Basim Badami, you make very detailed statements.
26:31What did I do?
26:32Because I was in a meeting, and when you are in a meeting,
26:35a lot of things are on oath, which you are entrusted with.
26:39I don't want to say this.
26:41But if you look at Benu Satoor,
26:43I think that after Mr. Rashid Somroo's speech,
26:46there is no doubt left as to what Mr. Maulana will do.
26:50Mr. Rashid, let's end the doubt. Let's create Mr. Kashif.
26:53I am stuck between Kashif and Rashid.
26:55Mr. Hamid.
26:56No, no, you don't get stuck.
26:59Kashif is our brother.
27:01I think you should take a leave from Mr. Raza.
27:06Mashallah, this day is coming. May Allah protect us.
27:08Rashid Somroo is on air.
27:10He is agreeing to take a leave from Mr. Hamid Raza.
27:12Amazing. May Allah protect us.
27:14For me, Mr. Maulana's leave is enough.
27:17Right.
27:20No, Kashif Abbasi is our brother.
27:22He is always very kind.
27:24Let me tell you one more thing.
27:25Mr. Maulana said something.
27:27Mr. Maulana was saying that his party,
27:29and today, his elections in Sindh were completed.
27:32When we went to Mr. Maulana's house,
27:35his party members, Shura and Amla, were present there in large numbers.
27:41Mr. Maulana told us that on the permission of the previous Shura and Amla,
27:46because he also said that when the Lahore Jalsa was held on 7th September,
27:51immediately after the Jalsa, he had kept all these things in the Shura and Amla meeting.
27:57And on some things, his party members, Shura and Amla,
28:00had categorically cleared their position.
28:03So, he was saying that on 29th September, if I am not wrong,
28:07his election process will be completed and his party members, Shura and Amla
28:11will come to the new foundation and he will take his final proposal and approval from there.
28:17And definitely, Salman Akhar Mirza and Kamran Mirza will sit there from tomorrow.
28:22And look, we have talked about judicial reforms.
28:25Okay.
28:55I just said one thing, that I am going to Maulana's house with a smile on my face.
28:58And my smile is my answer.
29:01You have to show your smile today.
29:02I have come from Maulana's house with a smile on my face.
29:05I have come from Maulana's house with a smile on my face.
29:07And God willing, Maulana said one more thing.
29:11I have one more thing which is very important for you.
29:14I think you will be able to clear a lot of things.
29:18Tell me, I will tell you.
29:20Maulana said that whoever wants to do anything against anyone,
29:28they can do it. They can do it legally, as they wish.
29:32But we will not allow our shoulders to be used against anyone
29:38for any kind of revengeful action.
29:40I just said one sentence. I said, of course, I will do it.
29:43You can clear a lot of things from this.
29:45You can clear a lot of things from this.
29:47Sir, the Secretary of Information, Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insan,
29:50who was nominated a few hours ago, I am really grateful.
29:52We requested him. I will give him the phone.
29:54Sheikh Waqas Akram is with us.
29:56Peace be upon you, sir.
29:58Peace be upon you, too. How are you, Mr. Maseen?
30:00Sir, Alhamdulillah. Thank you very much for your time, sir.
30:03Congratulations. You have got new responsibilities today.
30:06Thank you, sir.
30:07Sir, there was a statement by Mr. Rauf which he gave at our time
30:10that we want to talk to the establishment.
30:12We were ready yesterday and we are ready today.
30:14Today, Mr. Imran Khan clarified that Mr. Rauf had a misunderstanding.
30:18There is nothing like that.
30:19We will not talk to the establishment at all.
30:20And then this notification came.
30:22Is this the reason why he has been given the responsibility
30:24to change Mr. Rauf Hassan and you?
30:27No, sir. No, sir. This is not the reason at all.
30:30Mr. Rauf Hassan handled the responsibility of the party
30:34in a very difficult and difficult time.
30:38When it was impossible to come out and speak,
30:43he led the party in terms of information.
30:48He is our senior as well.
30:51Mr. Imran Khan has a great respect for him.
30:54We all respect him a lot.
30:55There was no such reason.
30:59So, what was the reason?
31:00The establishment that you spoke about,
31:03about the Badshah,
31:04I will tell you. Actually, for the last three to four weeks,
31:07these people have stopped meeting.
31:09Right.
31:10Usually, there is a meeting on the narrative of information every week.
31:14But for the last three to four weeks,
31:16they have stopped the six meetings of the court
31:20which are held at night.
31:21They could not meet.
31:23I don't know on what basis that statement was made.
31:26Mr. Khan has made it very clear today
31:28that nothing is happening and nothing will happen.
31:31The question is why was he replaced?
31:34Yes.
31:35Yes, sir.
31:36I think that our leader is the captain.
31:40Right.
31:41And it is the captain's wish to play in which batting order or calling order.
31:47So, Mr. Khan just changed the batting order.
31:50That doesn't mean that, God forbid,
31:52respected people like Mr. Dhruv
31:57have been replaced.
32:00It's just the captain who changed the batting order.
32:02Okay. But you said that there is clarity in it.
32:04He must have misunderstood it.
32:06But the clarity is that the party policy is the same.
32:08That there will be no discussion with the establishment.
32:11Absolutely.
32:13And, sir, has it happened that instead of gatherings,
32:16the PTI has replaced the gatherings series with a protest series?
32:19After clarifying, it was stated that there will be no gatherings in Pindi.
32:22There will be a protest.
32:23What's the exact difference between the two?
32:26The difference is that when we have a gathering,
32:28obviously, we make a stage for it.
32:33The NOC is applied for it.
32:35The preparations are made for it.
32:37A venue is chosen for it.
32:39And there are many reasons for it.
32:41Right.
32:42You saw that despite giving us the NOC,
32:48what they did in Lahore and what happened in Sanjani after giving the NOC.
32:52Yes.
32:53Today, on September 8, they arrested the Gote Gitton
32:56and opened the jails so that they don't spread in the country.
33:02They pleaded with the authorities and took a concession from the Khan
33:07to change the date.
33:08The Khan, in the interest of the country,
33:13gave it to them.
33:14After that, when the Jalsa took place on the 22nd,
33:16after the Jalsa on the 22nd, the roads were also stopped.
33:19Right.
33:20Containers were also kept.
33:21After that, five FIRs were also given at that Jalsa.
33:25Our people were also arrested.
33:28Detention orders were also issued.
33:30After that, the Jalsa took place in Lahore.
33:33The NOC was present in it.
33:35They threw us out of the city.
33:37Right.
33:38It was done in Sanjani.
33:39Now, the decision has been made that we have to hold Jalsas in the city.
33:43Right.
33:44You give us the NOC, you don't give us the NOC.
33:47If you don't give us the NOC, then we will protest.
33:51Because we think that Jalsa is our right
33:53and we are people who respect the law.
33:57We gave you an application.
33:58You don't want to give us the NOC.
34:00We will protest wherever we want.
34:04That is our right.
34:05So, the protest means that you will not be a stage set there,
34:08but you will reach there in the form of a rally.
34:10Can you say that?
34:11We will reach there, sir.
34:12All of us will reach there.
34:13One person will reach there.
34:14The whole village will reach there.
34:16People will come from Punjab.
34:17And you will reach at the place where it was announced.
34:19You will not go to the outskirts of the city.
34:21No, sir.
34:22We will reach at the place where it was announced.
34:23We will reach there.
34:24So, it is not that the Minar-e-Pakistan is there,
34:27then which area?
34:28I am not from Lahore.
34:29No, sir.
34:30It has become a joke.
34:31We say that you are allowing other communities to hold Jalsas in the city.
34:36When we ask for the same place,
34:38you pick us up and send us to Mawishi Wadi, Pakda Wadi and Ghalla Wadi.
34:42About 50-50 miles away from the city.
34:44That is all.
34:46So, now the protest is also our right.
34:49So, you are protesting in Liaquat Bagh on Sunday
34:52whether you will get the NOC or not.
34:53Am I right?
34:54Sir, who takes the NOC of a protest?
34:56It is a protest because you are not allowing other communities to hold Jalsas.
34:59Okay.
35:00Thank you, sir.
35:01When you are suppressing our rights,
35:03when you try to suppress things,
35:06then the protest happens only then.
35:08So, now that there is no Jalsa, the NOC issue is over.
35:12Thank you, sir.
35:13It is a protest, sir.
35:14It is a protest, sir.
35:15We had applied in the court.
35:18We are withdrawing that as well this morning.
35:19Okay.
35:21They are trying to give us a place in Chakdeli.
35:25So, we are withdrawing our application.
35:27Correct.
35:28Thank you, sir.
35:29Thank you very much.
35:30Sir, Rashid sir first and then Hamid sir.
35:33Rashid sir, what is the possibility?
35:35You are making a protest with People's Party
35:39and also with Hamid sir.
35:42Ultimately, which way do you want to go?
35:44Which protest can end, Rashid bhai?
35:48Waseem bhai.
35:51Mr. Mohanraj, I had said something in one sentence
35:54that we will try to make a law through consensus.
35:58Look, the job of the assembly is to make a law.
36:02If you take this job from the National Assembly,
36:04then what will be left for the National Assembly to do?
36:07Correct.
36:08So, we want that when the law is being made,
36:12whether it is being made by the government benches
36:14or the opposition benches,
36:15then there should be consensus on that.
36:17In that, the legal experts of the Pakistan People's Party are doing their job.
36:21The legal experts of the JUI are doing their job.
36:24Today, you have heard from Hamid Razak sir
36:27that the lawyers of the PTI and the JUI will sit together
36:31and take a review.
36:33In the same way, the lawyers of the People's Party and the JUI will also sit together.
36:37And if there is consensus on this,
36:40then I think it would be best
36:42that all the parties bring judicial reforms with a consensus.
36:46On which no fingers will be raised,
36:48on which there will be no objections,
36:50and on which there will be no doubts and suspicions,
36:52and there will be no questions and answers
36:54that we will do the Gantu-Gantu program only on one topic.
36:57I think that if Maulana Fazlur Rahman has taken a step towards this,
37:01then we should welcome him on air.
37:04At this time, in this suffocating environment,
37:06when no one is ready to look at each other's faces,
37:09no one is ready to shake hands,
37:11and even in this situation, if for the good of the country,
37:15for the good of the nation, for the well-being of the people,
37:17Maulana Fazlur Rahman takes such a step
37:19that he brings everyone together on a table,
37:21then I think this is the best move.
37:23Final word.
37:24Mr. Hamid, is there such a possibility?
37:27Do you think that in your opinion,
37:29in which there is such a consensus,
37:31in which your, the People's Party and Maulana Fazlur Rahman's,
37:33I mean everyone's,
37:34agree.
37:35Or in today's history, it is a good thing to say.
37:37You will say that it should be done.
37:40But in practice, does such a non-believer appear, at least, Mr. Hamid?
37:44Look, Mr. Waseem, I will not say anything
37:47that will ruin a positive environment in any way.
37:51When we were sitting in the special committee,
37:53there, Bilawal Bhutto Sahib said that
37:55we want to act with great intensity on the Charter of Democracy.
37:59And because his signatory was my father at that time.
38:03So, if we want to act on the Charter of Democracy,
38:06then it is absolutely fine, we are agreed.
38:08In the Charter of Democracy, it is written in a very categorized way
38:12that the Public Accounts Committee will go to the opposition.
38:14Yes.
38:15In the Charter of Democracy, it is written in a very categorized way
38:18that you will not come to power by using the shoulder of the establishment.
38:23In the Charter of Democracy, it is written in a very categorized way
38:27that you will not have any meetings with regard to political issues.
38:30But anyway, keeping in mind the current situation,
38:34the legal team of the Pakistan People's Party
38:37is obviously preparing a competition
38:39and they will definitely share it with Maulana Sahib.
38:42And today, our mechanism has also been decided.
38:44Tomorrow morning,
38:46Pakistan Tehreek-e-Islam's Secretary General Salman Akar Maraza Sahib
38:51and Senator Kamran Murza Sahib will also sit on it.
38:54And all people will bring their things in front of us.
38:56We also have a position on judicial reforms
38:59that its beginning should be from the lowest level.
39:02And on the highest level, there are some of our reservations.
39:07We spoke about those reservations today.
39:08I can't state them now.
39:10Right, right.
39:10But God willing, in two or three days' time,
39:13we hope that there will be a positive development in it.
39:16Thank you very much, sir.
39:17Thank you very much.
39:18Rashid Sumru Sahib was with us.
39:19Before taking a break,
39:21please watch the conversation that took place today.
39:23As I said, you have to listen to Salman Raza Sahib,
39:27watch Brother Mohammad Raza Sahib.
39:28We will show that and then we will take a break.
39:31There have been some rumours for the past few days
39:33that Maulana has made a decision.
39:35That Maulana will support the government.
39:37That is not the case.
39:38Maulana has shown us the light in a very dark moment.
39:43The blood that was being shed on the Pakistani constitution,
39:47Maulana's role in stopping that bloodshed will always be remembered.
39:52That day, he saved the constitution from being completely destroyed.
39:57Maulana is a firm believer in our fate.
40:00Maulana is absolutely clear in his thinking.
40:03As a scholar, as a patriot of Pakistan,
40:07he will not take any step
40:10that will be remembered as a historic moment in history.
40:15Maulana is with us, God willing.
40:18PAKISTAN'S CHIEF JUSTICE
40:20PAKISTAN'S CHIEF JUSTICE
40:23PAKISTAN'S CHIEF JUSTICE
40:26PAKISTAN'S CHIEF JUSTICE
40:28PAKISTAN'S CHIEF JUSTICE
40:31PAKISTAN'S CHIEF JUSTICE
40:33Before we go, let me tell you about the case of the biggest court in Pakistan.
40:37The case is that the Chief Justice of Pakistan used to make a bench
40:41for any case that would be heard in the Supreme Court.
40:43The legal side of the story is short again.
40:45It is called the practice and procedure act.
40:47After this, the Chief Justice of Pakistan
40:49and the two senior judges
40:51will form a committee on these three judges
40:53and they will make the benches.
40:55Among them are Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib and Muneeb Akhtar Sahib.
41:00Things got a little out of hand.
41:02After that, it happened that Mansoor Sahib and Muneeb Akhtar Sahib are on one side
41:06and Fahisa Sahib is on the other.
41:07After that, the President of Pakistan issued an ordinance
41:09that this committee will change its identity.
41:12The Chief Justice will be in it.
41:14Then there will be other senior judges.
41:15In this case, Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib will be in it.
41:17And the third judge will be the Chief Justice.
41:19He can make anyone of his choice.
41:22This ordinance came.
41:23After a while, Qazi Fahisa Sahib formed a new committee
41:25that I, Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib and Ameen Uddin Khan Sahib
41:28who is the fifth senior judge.
41:30Not Muneeb Sahib, not Yahya Sahib, but Ameen Uddin Khan Sahib.
41:34When this happened and the committee was heard,
41:35Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib did not attend the hearing.
41:37Then Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib wrote a letter to Qazi Fahisa Sahib
41:40in which he summarized that all this is very disappointing
41:43and I will not be a part of this committee
41:46until Muneeb Akhtar Sahib is not a part of this committee.
41:49Today, Fahisa Sahib replied to this and published this letter.
41:52Now, you see the message of this letter.
41:54Chief Justice Qazi Fahisa's letter to Justice Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib.
41:59And he spoke very harshly and directly.
42:01He addressed Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib and said,
42:05that your letter was written to me and Justice Ameen Uddin Khan.
42:08Before us, the journalists had received it.
42:10He must have complained that he wrote it to us,
42:11but before us, it had become the adornment of the media.
42:14Now, see what Qazi Sahib is saying to Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib,
42:16that Justice Muneeb Akhtar Sahib, whom you support without a doubt,
42:21he opposed this act.
42:23He is talking about the Practice and Procedure Act.
42:26When this was challenged in the court,
42:27then Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib supported it,
42:29and Muneeb Akhtar Sahib opposed it.
42:31So, here he is referring to that, that Muneeb Akhtar Sahib,
42:34whom you support without a doubt, he had previously opposed this act.
42:38Then Qazi Faisal Sahib says,
42:40that Justice Muneeb Akhtar used to be appointed
42:43without a doubt in the special benches of the previous Chief Justice.
42:46Qazi Sahib is saying this to Mansoor Ali Shah Sahib.
42:48Then he is saying, Mr. Shah,
42:49you raised an objection on my action of changing a member of this committee.
42:53That is, I removed Muneeb Akhtar Sahib, you had an objection on this.
42:56You gave me an ultimatum,
42:57that until Muneeb Akhtar does not return to the committee,
42:59you will not sit in this committee.
43:01Mr. Shah, this demand of yours is against the law.
43:05Chief Justice is saying to the Senior Peon Judge,
43:07that this demand of yours is against the law.
43:09In fact, he further said,
43:10legally, you cannot ask me,
43:13that which committee member should I nominate,
43:16because the law gives me the right to bring a person of my choice.
43:18But, because I believe in transparency,
43:22that is why I am telling you,
43:23why I did not make Muneeb Akhtar Sahib a member of the committee.
43:27And then after that, he says,
43:29remember, I am doing this only on your insistence,
43:33otherwise, I am not bound to tell you the reasons.
43:36Then he told me the reasons.
43:37He said, Justice Muneeb Sahib was one of the two judges,
43:41who did not care about the burden of the case, and took a break.
43:45Then despite taking a break,
43:47he insisted on participating in the committee meetings.
43:49And the next senior judge, that is, Justice Yahya,
43:52expressed his distrust.
43:54Then, Chief Justice says,
43:56that the Practice and Procedure Act says,
43:58that all the urgent cases,
44:00will be decided on the 14th.
44:02But, what did Justice Muneeb Sahib do?
44:05He refused to listen to the urgent legal cases,
44:08and took a break.
44:09So, he gave more time for the break.
44:10Then, he made another specific complaint.
44:13He said, his behaviour was very rude.
44:15Justice Muneeb Akhtar,
44:16took an uncivilised, uncivilised,
44:20and inappropriate attitude towards the committee members.
44:22This is Faiz Issa Sahib,
44:23explaining the reasons to Munsoor Ali Shah Sahib,
44:25that why did I remove Muneeb Akhtar Sahib from the committee.
44:28Justice Muneeb Akhtar's attitude towards the committee was inappropriate,
44:31and he even walked out.
44:33The bench where Justice Muneeb used to sit,
44:35he used to finish his work before 11 o'clock and leave.
44:38His fellow judges also expressed their reservations.
44:41Then, he said to Shah Sahib,
44:42that you accused me without verifying the facts,
44:46that I bypassed Justice Yahya Afridi,
44:48and did not make him a member of the committee.
44:50He further said,
44:51if there was anyone,
44:52who did not want Justice Yahya Afridi to become a member of the committee,
44:55then it was not me,
44:56it was Justice Muneeb Akhtar.
44:58I had requested Justice Yahya Afridi,
45:02for the meeting to be held on the 20th of September,
45:04but he was not available.
45:06Justice Yahya Afridi Sahib,
45:07is a senior judge than Ameen Uddin Khan Sahib,
45:09who was not present,
45:11and Munsoor Shah Sahib objected to that,
45:12and is now responding to that.
45:13Then he said,
45:14yesterday I requested Justice Yahya Sahib,
45:18but he said that he did not want to become a member of the committee.
45:20After that, I requested Justice Ameen Uddin Sahib,
45:23who cancelled his tour of Lahore,
45:25and became a member of the committee.
45:26You yourself,
45:28not me, but the registrar, told me that you are busy,
45:30because of which we cancelled the committee's tour.
45:33But two days later, you said that you did not want to become a member of the committee.
45:37One more baseless allegation,
45:39one more baseless allegation,
45:41that you put on me,
45:42was that I am running a one-man show,
45:44and such things of yours cannot change the facts.
45:47I did not want to count the good deeds in the court,
45:50but now,
45:50I will have to do this to cancel a false statement.
45:54Then he counted the list,
45:55of what I did for the court.
45:57And in the end, he said,
45:58that despite all these things,
46:00your saying that the country is going through a legal crisis,
46:04is a worry.
46:05It is inappropriate for a judge,
46:07to say such things, which can cause political or economic instability.
46:10Can I ask, what benefit did these statements of yours bring?
46:14Mr. Shah,
46:14the law allows me,
46:17to put a judge on anyone in the committee.
46:19And I have told you the reasons for this.
46:22However, it seems that,
46:23in your opinion, all the judges are not the same.
46:25I hope that,
46:26now you will become a part of this committee and serve the public.
46:29You will put your valuable part,
46:31so that the court proceedings can be carried out properly.
46:33Come,
46:34all of you together,
46:35do your part,
46:36so that the existing cases in the court,
46:38can be dealt with quickly.
46:40Because you had written your letter to the registrar,
46:42not me,
46:43and you had also sent a copy of it to the other colleagues.
46:46So now, I have no other option,
46:48than to cancel this false statement,
46:49through my letter.
46:51And I will also send a copy of this,
46:53to those people.
46:55Very straightforward,
46:58alarming,
46:59and there is no doubt about it,
47:01that the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
47:03and the judges' opinions,
47:05are very different from each other,
47:07in fact, there is a contradiction.
47:09We will conclude after a break.
47:22Before we leave,
47:23it is very interesting that in today's program,
47:25one of the journalists who met Maulana Sahib yesterday,
47:28Kashif Abbasi Sahib,
47:28got the impression from there,
47:31that Maulana Sahib is on board with the government,
47:33and will support the government in the case of the constitutional amendment.
47:36And today,
47:37the one who met Maulana Sahib,
47:38Hamid Ali Sahib,
47:39got the impression that this is not the case,
47:41and Maulana Sahib will support the justice movement,
47:44in this matter.
47:45I think that,
47:47the constitutional amendment will probably be done,
47:50and without Maulana Sahib's cooperation,
47:51this is not possible.
47:53So, Maulana Sahib will also support this constitutional amendment.
47:56He will say that,
47:57look, I did not compromise on my position,
47:59I did not vote for someone's extension,
48:01nothing personal happened,
48:03but something will definitely happen,
48:04as a result of which the constitutional amendment will also be done.
48:07A constitutional court will be formed,
48:09maybe,
48:10in the military court,
48:11the civilians' military trial,
48:13to some extent,
48:14some way,
48:15for some specific time,
48:17will come out.
48:19Zindagi Sehat Rahi Toh.
48:20We will meet in the next episode, InshaAllah.
48:22Allah Hafiz Wa Rahmatullah.