Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky met his US counterpart Joe Biden at the White House on Thursday to present his wartime "victory plan", after the US announced an $8 billion surge in military aid for Kyiv's fight against Russia. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to Mark Temnycky, a Ukrainian-American journalist and non-resident fellow at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Centre. He says that Ukraine's repeated crossing of Moscow's "red lines" in the past two years shows that the nuclear threat is a bluff.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Apropos.
00:04First another major commitment to Ukraine.
00:06With just months left in office, U.S. President Joe Biden has pledged a further $8 billion
00:12in military aid to Kyiv as he holds talks with his Ukrainian counterpart.
00:16The package includes America's first shipment of a precision-guided glide bomb called the
00:21Joint Standoff Weapon, which has a range of up to 130 kilometers.
00:26But the White House has been playing down Ukrainian hopes that the visit would achieve
00:30Zelensky's long-held goal of getting permission to fire long-range Western-made missiles into
00:36Russian territory.
00:37Zelensky has also been meeting U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris.
00:41As I have made clear on our six previous meetings and throughout Putin's brutal aggression and
00:49war against Ukraine, my support for the people of Ukraine is unwavering.
00:55I've been proud to stand with Ukraine.
00:57I will continue to stand with Ukraine, and I will work to ensure Ukraine prevails in
01:04this war.
01:05To be safe, secure, and prosperous, the United States must continue to fulfill our longstanding
01:12role of global leadership.
01:14We must stand with our allies and our partners.
01:19Support package, as you said, and we have common view on the things that need to be
01:24done.
01:25We have to keep pressure on Russia to stop the war and to make truly lasting and just
01:31peace.
01:32And one more thing.
01:33I want to inform Madam Vice President about the latest Russian missile and the Shahid's
01:40attacks against Ukrainian energy infrastructure.
01:43We need to urgently strengthen Ukraine's air defense to save thousands of lives and reduce
01:50Russian terror to zero.
01:54The U.S. presidential election means that Washington's support for Ukraine now hangs
01:58in the balance with Zelensky at odds with Donald Trump and the Republicans.
02:03To discuss, let's bring in Mark Tenemky, a Ukrainian-American journalist and non-resident
02:08fellow at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center.
02:11Mark, thank you so much for being with us on the program this evening.
02:15Apart from the funding that has been announced for Ukraine, Zelensky has been presenting
02:19Joe Biden with his so-called victory plan.
02:23Later this week, are we any closer to knowing exactly how he plans to defeat Russia?
02:30Thank you again for having me on the program.
02:32President Zelensky has been very clear, as well as the majority of the Ukrainian people
02:36and people in government, that the only way that Ukraine will succeed is restoring the
02:411991 borders of independent Ukraine.
02:44And to this day, the Ukrainians are still very certain to that.
02:48There have been numerous polls conducted by National Democratic Institute and National
02:53Republican Institute on Ukrainian public opinion on the war, and morale still remains strong,
02:58where 80 percent or higher of Ukrainians believe that the only way to end the war is by forcing
03:04the Russians out.
03:05With President Zelensky's meeting with President Biden today, I'm sure there will be more details
03:10after their meeting that was held this afternoon, will reveal what President Zelensky plans
03:16in helping the Ukrainians succeed in reclaiming and liberating people within the South and
03:23Eastern occupied regions that Russia controls today.
03:27Another way that the Ukrainians are looking into this, that they continue asking Western
03:32countries for assistance, is by lifting these restrictions where some countries are preventing
03:36the Ukrainians from firing missiles on Russian military targets within Russian territory.
03:42If the Ukrainians were able to strike weapons depots, weapons factories, ammunition areas,
03:50barracks that the Russians have within Russian territory that the Ukrainians could strike,
03:54this would lead to a swifter end to the war.
03:58Because if the Russians don't have military capabilities and if the Russians don't have
04:02equipment to launch their war, this will prevent the Russians from leading and having additional
04:07bombardments on Ukraine.
04:09The White House, it has been playing down those hopes that Zelensky has expressed frequently
04:13in recent months about getting permission to fire those long-range Western-made missiles
04:18into Russian territory.
04:20So what is the view in Kiev?
04:21Is there any hope that Washington and other Ukrainian allies are going to budge on this
04:26issue?
04:28So it's not everyone.
04:30There are countries such as the three Baltic states, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland,
04:35France as well, the Netherlands, and several other NATO countries like Czechia, are all
04:40supportive of Ukraine firing missiles into Russia to target these military and some military
04:47components.
04:49And it's countries such as the United States and Germany that are still hesitant, believing
04:54that if the Russians were attacked by Ukrainian missiles for these military capabilities,
05:00that there would be an escalation in the war.
05:02I think it's important to note that for the last two and a half years, the Russians have
05:06said that there are numerous red lines that the Ukrainians cannot pass, such as getting
05:11HIMARS or ATAKMS or F-16s most recently, saying that there would be a nuclear war if Ukraine
05:17had these capabilities.
05:19Two and a half years later, Ukraine has these weapons and they're succeeding against the
05:23Russians.
05:24And there has been no nuclear conflict, showing that the Russians are bluffing.
05:29And I think it's important for President Zelensky to continue meeting with international
05:34leaders in Western countries to see how they can negotiate and come to this conclusion.
05:41In addition, the Ukrainians launched their offensive into Kursk province in Russia last
05:46month as a way to show that Russia is not as strong and the military might is not as
05:51strong as many believe.
05:53And Ukrainians for now, over a month, have been holding territory within Russia where
05:58they were able to have a successful counteroffensive into the Russian state.
06:02Now, Vladimir Putin, he has, though, this week warned that Russia is changing its rules
06:07when it comes to nuclear weapons, lowering the threshold at which they might be used.
06:13Do you believe that's mere sabre rattling or does it actually represent a change in
06:16policy from Moscow?
06:19I think it's continued sabre rattling because President Putin has realised that previous
06:24attempts to unnerve and unsettle neighbouring states has been successful, where Ukraine
06:29has had restrictions on their capabilities and what they're able to target and how they're
06:34able to advance on the battlefield.
06:37And by continuing to have Ukrainian successes on the battlefield, the Ukrainians are showing
06:43the Western world that they are able to use Western weapons and they are able to make
06:48advances into the Russian occupied territories, trying to prove to other countries around
06:54the world that they can be successful and this war can be won on Ukrainian terms.
06:58Now, in terms of the aid that's been pledged by Joe Biden this week, another $8 billion.
07:04Much of it is actually going to go towards long range contracts for weapons that won't
07:09actually be seen on the battlefield for some time.
07:11So what kind of a difference is this new aid package going to actually make and when will
07:16we see that difference on the battlefield, do you believe?
07:20The biggest announcement today is, as you mentioned earlier, the Ukrainians received
07:26new rocket capabilities that can be fired from further distances.
07:30This is important because it will allow Ukrainians to fire these missiles on Russian capabilities
07:36from a further distance, making it safer for Ukrainians.
07:40And the United States is sending this new aid, however, the United States is several
07:45thousand miles away from Ukraine and it will take time for the weapons to get there.
07:50And in the meantime, the Ukrainians will be relying on their European allies who are much
07:54closer geographically to get additional assistance that can arrive faster and quicker.
08:00In addition to what the United States has announced, as well as other European countries
08:05with new forms of aid, European countries, the United States, Canada and other members
08:10have also been looking to purchase equipment that already exists rather than building it
08:15and refurbishing these capabilities and sending it to the Ukrainians, because sending them
08:20weapons right now in this situation, especially ahead of the wintertime, where the Russians
08:25are targeting Ukrainian energy capabilities to try to make Ukrainians without power and
08:31cold in the upcoming months, it will be very crucial for Ukraine to be able to hold on
08:35to the territory that it currently has before the winter.
08:39And Mark, also we're coming very close, ever closer to the US election.
08:43That could change things significantly for Ukraine.
08:46This visit by Zelensky to Washington, it's been somewhat overshadowed by an ongoing row
08:52with Donald Trump and the Republicans.
08:55Yes, and this week, President Zelensky announced he has this plan that he wanted to discuss
09:02for Ukrainian victory with both current President Biden and Vice President Harris, and he also
09:08extended the invitation to President Trump in his campaign.
09:11Today, as we know, President Zelensky met with President Biden and Vice President Harris
09:16and the campaign for former President Trump declined to meet with President Zelensky.
09:22Furthermore, President Zelensky met with Senator Schumer, who's a majority leader in the Senate
09:28and minority leader McConnell and several other senators, and they had bipartisan discussions
09:33on how the United States can continue to assist Ukraine.
09:37But when President Zelensky invited Republican Majority Leader Johnson from the House to
09:43attend and participate in these discussions, he also declined these conversations.
09:48So while there are many Republicans and Democrats who continue to support Ukraine during this
09:53time, there is some, there are some members in Congress who are beginning to sway away
10:00from US-Ukraine relations.
10:01Yes, and Donald Trump himself, he's repeatedly, and he did so again this week, been critical
10:05of the billions of dollars that are being provided to Ukraine.
10:08So what would that support look like under a Trump presidency?
10:14During his campaign, President Trump has said on numerous occasions that he wants to stop
10:19sending additional assistance to Ukraine, and he has said that he wants Ukraine to meet
10:24with Russian leaders to force and have a ceasefire agreement.
10:30This would mean that millions of Ukrainians in the South and the East would be forced
10:33under Russian occupation, and over the last two and a half years, numerous human rights
10:38groups such as the United Nations, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, have conducted
10:43numerous investigations and reports publishing the atrocities that Russia has committed on
10:48Ukrainian territory against civilians.
10:52And if these individuals in the South and East in current occupied Russian territory
10:57were to be forced through these ceasefire agreements, further atrocities would be committed
11:02in this area.
11:03Mark, thank you so much for your time on the programme.
11:05We'll have to leave it there for now.
11:06That is Mark Temnicki, a Ukrainian-American journalist and non-resident fellow at the
11:11Atlantic Council's Eurasia Centre.
11:14Well that's it from us for now.
11:15Stay with us though.
11:16Up next, it's Eye on the Planet.