Variety returns in-person for its annual Entertainment & Technology Summit, presented by City National Bank. This one-day event will explore advancing technology’s impact on TV, film, gaming, music, digital media and consumer brands.
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00:00Joining me is Nick Pepper, Head of Wholly Owned Content
00:03at Amazon MGM Studios, Rachel Delphin,
00:07Chief Marketing Officer at Twitch,
00:09and Charlotte Maines, Director of Fire TV Business
00:13and Devices Advertising.
00:15And so we're starting off this conversation
00:17because there was recent research from Amazon ads
00:20that said that 70% of consumers want to see
00:23more authentic cross-cultural stories in the media.
00:27So we're really here to talk about this rise
00:30in global cross-cultural storytelling
00:32and why that shift is happening in particular
00:34in the streaming space.
00:36So what marketplaces are leading the way?
00:39Why?
00:40And what do all of these things mean for creators
00:43and marketers who are trying to engage
00:45with a global audience?
00:46So we're looking to you three as experts
00:48from your various respective fields
00:51to kind of fill us in on what that means.
00:53So I guess that's kind of where I would like to start.
00:57Nick, to that idea from you, from a content perspective,
01:01because we're seeing audiences drawn from,
01:04you know, we're even looking, for example,
01:06at the South Korean content in TV, film, and music,
01:10or the rise of Brazil as a big hub for podcasts.
01:14So how do you see this play out
01:17in your area of entertainment?
01:19Sure.
01:21I think it's a really interesting time.
01:24I think that, you know, from the Amazon ads research,
01:26they were saying that 72% of monthly streaming viewers
01:29want to learn more, be exposed to other cultures,
01:33other communities.
01:34So we're at a place in time in human history
01:36where we've been through a pandemic,
01:37where we've been through, you know, isolation,
01:39and we reached out and we watched more
01:41than we've ever watched before.
01:42And I think people have become more accustomed
01:44to seeing content from other places.
01:46So for us, I think we look at Prime Video as,
01:50you know, it's in 240 countries
01:53and territories around the world.
01:55It's a gigantic global service,
01:57and yet we think that there's a way to tell stories
02:00to our customers or our audience
02:03that really minds and exposes many different cultures.
02:09I think we have to look at things
02:10through an authentic lens.
02:11I think you have to find the filmmaker or the storyteller
02:13that has the ability to talk to an audience
02:16on a global scale, but to tell an authentic story
02:19that's really deeply meaningful.
02:21And Charlotte, for you, what does that mean
02:24in terms of how it actually then manifests onto platform
02:30and what you're kind of figuring out
02:32when you're making those calls?
02:34Yeah, so seeing the report and some of the data
02:36in the report was super interesting,
02:38but also not really a surprise for us at Fire TV.
02:42We've been around for 10 years,
02:44recently had our 10 year birthday.
02:46We've sold over 200 million devices
02:48and we're in over 85 countries.
02:50So my job as part of driving the customer experience
02:55on the device is I spend a lot of time looking at the data
02:58on how customers use the device, right?
03:00Like things that they're doing
03:01is what I wanna double down on,
03:02do more of what works, do less of what doesn't.
03:04So I've been watching for years
03:06as we've increased our global penetration,
03:09you know, kind of the different viewing behaviors,
03:11the different content that's enjoyed in different places.
03:14And not surprisingly, what you see is,
03:16of course, that's not limited.
03:17The podcasts aren't limited to Brazil or South Korea, right?
03:20Like customers might have that heritage or that background
03:25or be coming from there, going to different countries
03:28and they still wanna watch it.
03:29So that's my job to make sure that a Fire TV customer
03:32can watch whatever they want to, whenever they want to,
03:35and that any of that content is available.
03:37And so as we sort of like invested
03:39and prioritized in that strategy,
03:41we're just seeing the borders are just melting, right?
03:44So completely agree.
03:45And it was exciting to see the research
03:48and sort of see some of that reverberated
03:49and give us some ideas.
03:52What about for you, Rachel?
03:53Because I think the concept that obviously Twitch
03:56is the leading when it comes to gaming,
03:59that's not all that the platform is for.
04:02Yeah, sure.
04:03So we are predominantly gaming.
04:06And on the question of sort of, you know, cultural exchange,
04:10it's a really, you know, it's a shared experience.
04:14So when people are fans of Fallout
04:16or when people are fans of, you know, League of Legends,
04:19the thing that brings them together is their love,
04:22their passion for that game.
04:24If they have a shared language,
04:25then they get to experience, you know,
04:28something that they both love,
04:29but you're coming together over sameness
04:31rather than the things that make you distinctive.
04:34And the other thing that the study pointed out was,
04:36or one of the themes rather is cultural dialogue.
04:39And of course, because we're live,
04:41there's a lot of interaction, right?
04:43That's really the hallmark of live streaming
04:44is that you can have that live interaction.
04:47And so, you know, it allows for nuance, discussion,
04:51and I think it really rewards curiosity.
04:54We're 70% Gen Z and millennials.
04:56So I think some of that is inherent
04:58kind of in that generation.
05:00You know, half of that generation, the youngest,
05:02they've had access to the internet, you know,
05:05from stroller to now.
05:07And for us millennials, elder millennials,
05:10you know, most of our adult lives were on the internet.
05:13So you've had this access exposure to, you know,
05:18other people, other cultures,
05:20other experiences for a long time.
05:21And so I think there's just kind of a natural curiosity
05:25and interest given how much access we've had
05:28for most of our lives.
05:30I wanted to, based on what you were mentioning,
05:34talk about the idea of fandom as well
05:36and the power of fandom and how that then relates
05:39to your various areas of expertise as well,
05:42because fandom is such an important part
05:44of creating culture and can also,
05:47it also is a powerful part of culture in the research.
05:51It mentions or breaks it down this way.
05:54It says fandoms now have more power than ever
05:56to shape culture around entertainment experiences and brands.
05:59So what does that then look like for you, Nick,
06:02from a content perspective, understanding,
06:05especially sometimes when you're working with branded IP,
06:09things that have already been out there,
06:11what do you then do to ensure that, you know,
06:13it still has some cultural relevance?
06:16I mean, we've learned over and over
06:17that we have to listen to the fans,
06:19especially the core fans, especially the core audience.
06:21And we work a lot with IP.
06:23We work a lot with video games, with publishing,
06:27with storytelling from all different formats.
06:30And I think the fandom is kind of
06:32what will make and break you.
06:34If you can appeal to your core fans,
06:36then you'll find that they will evangelize your show
06:41and create a social movement for you.
06:44So it's a partnership, I think,
06:45and it's really acknowledging that they want
06:48to have an authentic experience.
06:49They want to be a part of it in a meaningful way.
06:52And I think that that's,
06:53when you can create that kind of relationship,
06:55then you really see meaningful interaction with them.
06:58I like the relationship aspect of it too,
07:00because that is a huge part of it.
07:02And when you look at shows like Mr. and Mrs. Smith,
07:04for example, a show that stars people with huge fandoms
07:08in Donald Glover and Maya Erskine,
07:10how does that then also allow you
07:12to kind of have the confidence to take on an IP
07:16that people know, like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, the movie?
07:18Sure.
07:19I mean, Mr. and Mrs. Smith was a big adventure.
07:22And I think Donald is known for being able to take an idea
07:27and give it a incredibly fresh and unique perspective,
07:30but still tell an entertaining story.
07:32So he, I think, brilliantly kind of created a nuanced drama
07:36that paid attention and did the right kind of homage
07:40to the original, but still explored something
07:43that was really socially relevant.
07:44So taking a look at the differences
07:46in romantic relationships between people
07:48from different backgrounds.
07:49And the show resonated.
07:52I think the show, in the first three days,
07:54came out as number four on the Nielsen streaming ratings
07:58with one billion minute views.
08:02I mean, it was incredible performance, right?
08:04So there's an appetite that we see.
08:05There's a desire to key into cultural storytelling,
08:09and I think we're seeing it around the world.
08:13Actually, I think, Rachel, I'm gonna come back to you
08:15on that idea of fandom, because obviously with Twitch,
08:18you do have the Twitch streamers themselves
08:21who have their own gigantic fandoms.
08:24But what does that really mean in terms
08:26of who you're reaching via the platform
08:28and what that then kind of creates?
08:31Yeah, I mean, I think fandom is core to Twitch, right?
08:34So fandom for streamers or fandom for IP or a game, right?
08:37That's really what brings people together.
08:40These are, as like Nick was saying,
08:42these are the super fans, right?
08:43I think they're the folks who, they're buying the merch,
08:47they're going to the events, they're evangelizing it,
08:49they're on the forums, they're on Twitch.
08:51Like, they love it.
08:53And so if you're a brand, certainly if you're creating IP
08:57that appeals to that brand, there is a critical mass,
09:01right, on a place like Twitch,
09:02which is like, this is what brings them together.
09:04But then I think if you're not necessarily
09:07an endemic brand, right, or the IP itself,
09:10highly connected, these are real relationships
09:12that really bring people together,
09:14and so they're really influential.
09:16So being able to tap in that in a really authentic way
09:19means people are interacting with your brand
09:21and they're experiencing it through someone
09:24they know, they trust,
09:25which leads to really great outcomes.
09:27I think tapping into fandoms is also great fun,
09:30but carry some risk.
09:31When you get it right, it's really right.
09:34I mean, risk reward is really the name of the game here,
09:38but Charlotte, what kind of trends are you seeing
09:40coming from that device perspective?
09:43Yeah, I think, you know, in the spirit of the fandom,
09:45what we're working on is ensuring that our,
09:49despite the fact that we have so many devices sold,
09:51so many countries, you know,
09:53we have just so many customers we're serving,
09:55we recognize that each customer of Fire TV
09:58needs to feel like the experience is unique to them,
10:00whether they're fans of Twitch,
10:02whether they're fans of, you know,
10:03so many of the great Prime Video originals.
10:05And so we wanna surface the content
10:07that matters to the customer.
10:09And to start with, you have to have
10:10all of the great content,
10:12and then you have to have a large number of customers
10:14that you can then segment from so that marketers
10:16and so that content creators
10:18can talk to the right audiences.
10:20And then we just have to build the tech on the back end
10:22so that we can take, you know, your browsing signals,
10:25your buying signals across Amazon,
10:27and we can ensure that we are serving the content
10:30that you're going to like.
10:31So for somebody who likes Mr. and Mrs. Smith,
10:33first of all, everybody's seeing Mr. and Mrs. Smith
10:36on Fire TV, so don't worry about that.
10:38This is not, you know, a hyper-localized experience.
10:40It's a great show, and, you know,
10:42we want folks to discover it.
10:43But then those who do engage and watch it,
10:45and it's like, oh, okay, well, now we can show you X, Y,
10:48and Z, and, you know, that is a great way
10:50for customers who can discover new content
10:53from, you know, potentially the same or new providers,
10:55and, you know, and help them pursue
10:57some of these sort of thread lines of cultural relevance
11:01that they may not even have realized
11:03they were interested in, but we can see it
11:05because we can see their browsing behavior
11:06and sort of double down on that for them.
11:09And y'all, the data goes kind of beyond that,
11:13or rather the innovation goes beyond that, too,
11:16because I was reading a little bit
11:17about the implantable hearing tech
11:20and the work that you all have been doing
11:22with Fire TV there, and I was really curious
11:24in that idea of, as we're talking about accessibility
11:28and cultural relevance, there is also, you know,
11:30an added layer to, okay, well, we have the content,
11:32but how do we ensure that everyone
11:34can equally enjoy the content?
11:36Right, yeah, so what Angelica's referring to
11:39is that we have, for years, actually,
11:41we have been available.
11:43We partnered with the open source ASHA
11:46so that anybody with hearing aids
11:48can tap into our content and tap into
11:51the Fire TV experience and, you know,
11:53be able to hear it through their devices,
11:55and more recently, we partnered with Cochlear,
11:57and actually, it's the first, and maybe only, I think,
12:00streaming media service that actually can play
12:03directly into the implant in a customer's ear.
12:06And so, again, you know, it's like,
12:08there are cultural, there's many, many things
12:10that have been on my mind for a long time around,
12:12for example, there's a lot of Spanish-speaking customers
12:15in America, how do we service those?
12:17But to your point, the cultural differences are also,
12:21they're not limited to language,
12:22they're not limited to cultural heritage,
12:24and we're making sure that we're aware of those customers
12:26and servicing their needs as well.
12:29So to follow on that, you know,
12:32what are some of those things that marketers
12:35can kind of look to to ensure that they're able
12:37to kind of broadly service the audience
12:40and ensure that that diversity is just wholly realized?
12:46I mean, if you're talking about the tools at hand
12:48to be able to speak to these communities
12:50and to really understand the messaging
12:52and the interaction, at Studios,
12:55we have a remarkable DEI team,
12:57and it's a unique partnership between creative and DEI
13:02that works, of course, with the storytelling
13:04and the artists in terms of how we represent communities
13:08or people of all kinds.
13:10It's, you know, from diverse backgrounds of various groups.
13:18And, but what I like about the DEI team even more
13:21is that they work behind the camera as well.
13:22So they work with our production teams,
13:24they work with BA and Legal,
13:26they work across the entire organization
13:28to make sure that we're creating opportunity
13:30for people to gain valuable skills, experience,
13:33knowledge, connections, so that they can pursue
13:35their own careers in what they wanna do.
13:37And I think that that's really the proof of the pudding,
13:40that if you make a commitment
13:42to really be authentically connected to community,
13:44then you have to demonstrate it in multiple ways.
13:48And Rachel, what does that look like on the Twitch side?
13:51I was reading about something called Unity Guilds as well.
13:56Yeah, so Unity Guilds are external guilds.
13:58They are identity-based.
14:00So for streamers or, you know, our creators,
14:03for lack of a better term, are, we have four.
14:06So we have a group for women,
14:08we have a group for black streamers,
14:09we have a group for Latin and Hispanic streamers,
14:11and then we have a group that we just launched
14:13for LGBTQIA plus streamers.
14:15And it does a few things.
14:16One is, most importantly, provides them a space
14:18of safety, support, encouragement, collaboration,
14:22which I think participants enjoy,
14:25appreciate, and value the most.
14:28It also, you know, to Nick's point, is we preview a lot,
14:31we work with them a lot to understand,
14:33hey, what are your specific needs?
14:34How can we support you?
14:36We financially support the groups too,
14:38but we don't make the schedule or the programming.
14:40We let the guild leaders, who are members of the community,
14:44kind of tell us, this is what our community needs right now
14:47to kind of gut check, especially when we have news.
14:50Have we overlooked something that, you know,
14:52we just may not have thought or considered?
14:54And I think from just like a leadership perspective,
14:56particularly when you're dealing with like more sensitivities
14:59like I'm all, you gotta assume you're wrong in some way
15:02and like really, you know, encourage folks to like,
15:06let's be very diligent in breaking it down
15:07so that we're not inexplicably or like accidentally
15:10causing offense and hurt.
15:12And the other thing is like my thing,
15:14I never want an idea to feel unstoppable
15:16because sometimes if you're an enthusiastic person,
15:19as I am, you're like, oh my God, I love this idea.
15:21But if you're in charge, everyone's like, oh, she loves it.
15:23So we're just gonna let that one go.
15:28So I think, you know, if you're sitting on top,
15:30especially making sure that people always know
15:32and are feel, you know, empowered to say,
15:34your enthusiasm is wonderful, but we have some problems.
15:37So we do this.
15:38You have to create a space where you're unafraid
15:40to have the hard conversations and to be able to,
15:43to be educated, to have the language,
15:45to be able to have those conversations
15:46is really the trick of it all.
15:48And the only way to do that, as you have said,
15:50is to have all the people in the room.
15:53And if no one can say to you, here's why this doesn't work,
15:57then how are you going to actually ever make any change?
16:00Absolutely.
16:02Well, as we kind of look towards that idea
16:05and the kind of trends and developments that you're seeing,
16:08I would love to know why you think the streaming model,
16:12that's of course why we have you all here,
16:14but why streaming itself is at the kind of forefront
16:18of this globalization.
16:19What is it about streaming as a platform?
16:21Well, not as a platform,
16:22but what is it about streaming as a method
16:27really allows this globalization to happen
16:30at this rapid pace?
16:32I can start.
16:33So I think just some examples
16:35of how that's manifested for us is being nimble
16:39and just being able to get so much information
16:43and so many cues from our customers directly
16:45that we can quickly leverage
16:47and turn into an experience for them.
16:48So as an example, we have an app called Fire TV Channels,
16:52which is effectively super topical, relevant,
16:54short form content that you can access directly for free
16:57from the Fire TV UI.
16:59And that's something that we launched it,
17:02we actually started with the use case
17:03of news and sports highlights,
17:05which are traditionally a little bit underserved
17:07more on the streaming platform
17:08versus traditional linear and cable.
17:11But what we discovered is customers were sort of,
17:13they may come in because they saw a link to a news story
17:18that happened that day that they were familiar with,
17:20but then they kind of went down a rabbit hole
17:22sort of a la YouTube.
17:23And we started to see what they were watching
17:26and we're like, oh, we are getting the information
17:28that we have a lot of customers
17:29who are enjoying the Spanish language content
17:33that we offer as part of these broader categories.
17:36And so then we went and we were just like,
17:37well, that's a good insight.
17:38Why don't we just package that up into its own channel?
17:41And so now we have Fire TV Channels in Espanol,
17:45which has I think 40 providers including Univision,
17:48the Weather Channel in Espanol, Estrella, et cetera,
17:50and it's all right there.
17:51So instead of a Spanish speaking customer
17:54having to hunt and pack and find the content,
17:57it's just right there.
17:58And I think that is just something that we can do
18:01because in streaming you just have so much more information.
18:04You know who's watching, you see how long,
18:07what for, what they're doing,
18:08and then you're able to just respond to that
18:10versus kind of sending content out at prime time
18:14and just sort of hoping for the best and no feedback loop.
18:19For you, Rachel, what has been one of those
18:21kind of data points, that feedback,
18:23that has been particularly beneficial in recent years?
18:28I think for Twitch, Spanish language in particular
18:31has been a really growing segment.
18:33I think from 19, 19, that's funny,
18:352019 until 2022, it's like a six-fold increase.
18:39So it's our second most spoken language.
18:41It's our biggest stream, our biggest events
18:44are actually happening in Spanish.
18:45And so we created more programming.
18:48So TwitchCon's a really good example.
18:50I just came back from that this weekend.
18:52And actually creating more Spanish content
18:56to represent and invite and make a welcoming atmosphere
19:00for native Spanish speakers in the US,
19:02and then of course in Mexico,
19:03because we did it in San Diego.
19:05And then we've created some more programming.
19:06We do a lot of programming on Twitch ourselves,
19:08and we have a new program called Vamos, let's go,
19:12for us to sort of connect, chat,
19:14and share Twitch news with our community.
19:17I think the other one for us is Japan.
19:19I think we've seen like a 46% increase
19:21in viewership in Japan in particular.
19:23And a lot of cultural impact of Japan,
19:28I'm sure you all are familiar too, anime, manga,
19:30like there's just a lot that is influenced from Japan
19:35that we are trying to incorporate more as well.
19:38Nick, what about you?
19:39I mean, I think at studios, it's an interesting time
19:41because in television content creation,
19:44in the old days, it was a broadcast network
19:47kind of focused on the US market.
19:48So it was a very US-centric storytelling model.
19:51And then there's this explosion of scale that happens,
19:54and all of a sudden, we're telling stories
19:57in 240 countries and territories.
20:00So there's a level of responsibility,
20:03and there's a level of kind of understanding
20:07and really listening to the audience and what they say,
20:09and really understanding what works and what doesn't work,
20:12and having to kind of be a leader in that
20:15in a way that other platforms are not,
20:17because they're not quite the same size.
20:19But I think that the more you can create
20:22a deeper connection with your audience,
20:23and the more you can kind of have that feedback loop
20:26and be able to kind of, a little bit, be a futurist,
20:28because you have to create content for air
20:31for two or three years from now.
20:33You know, it's a huge challenge,
20:34but it's really interesting to see,
20:37to kind of match up where your storytelling is right now
20:39with where you think community and culture
20:41will be in two or three years from now.
20:43Well, I'm gonna ask you then to be a futurist.
20:45What is something that you're seeing,
20:47and this is a question for all of you,
20:49what is a trend that you're seeing,
20:51or a market that you are seeing
20:52that you kind of do see as the future?
20:55And yes, of course, anything you haven't greenlit already
20:58that you would love to give us the exclusive on now
21:00would be perfect.
21:03Oh, I'm in the hot seat.
21:06What is the trend that we're seeing?
21:08I mean, I think that the trends that we've seen
21:10are actually fairly evergreen.
21:11I think that there's going to always be a huge desire
21:15for the YA audience to come to our platform.
21:18I think that it's really interesting.
21:19We had a show recently called Hasbun Hotel,
21:21which was from this remarkable,
21:23diverse, queer-identified female creator
21:26named Vivian Medrano that she launched
21:29on her YouTube channel.
21:30It had an incredible fan base.
21:33It was massively popular.
21:35We licensed it over to Prime Video
21:38and then commissioned additional seasons.
21:40And what we saw was a migration of her audience
21:43from her platform on YouTube to ours,
21:47which is really rare for that demographic,
21:48especially for young women who came in droves to Prime Video.
21:52So I think for us, it's going to be going after
21:57and really engaging with the younger audience
22:01who will continue to be with us as they mature and grow older.
22:05Absolutely, and that's important to note
22:07that just because you created content,
22:09I mean, that's the whole idea here,
22:11just because you created content for a different platform
22:13doesn't mean that it doesn't have a home
22:15or potential expansion.
22:16Somewhere like Amazon.
22:18Yeah, yeah, there's always going to be opportunity.
22:21Yeah, so what I would add to that is,
22:24while I mentioned at the beginning that,
22:26of course, it's very important for Fire TV
22:28to feel like a personalized experience,
22:30it's also just as important that it's not,
22:32you know, maybe like some platforms like the internet,
22:35for example, where it can become an echo chamber, right?
22:37Like I have a five-year-old and a two-year-old,
22:39and what's very important to me is that they do grow up
22:43recognizing, you know, cultural diversity
22:46and being exposed to some of these things
22:47that I think streaming offers in a way that,
22:50you know, we didn't see historically
22:51with more traditional television.
22:53So I want them to get that content,
22:55and if it was just, you know, if we're literally just,
22:58well, I will say, you know,
22:59there is a lot of stinky and dirty and whatever in my UI,
23:03if you know, you know.
23:05But, you know, I want to make sure
23:06that they're also being exposed to some of the things
23:08that maybe just, you know,
23:09based on our viewing history wouldn't watch.
23:11So that, you know, even though I was joking a little bit
23:14about Mr. and Mrs. Smith,
23:15I do want to be sure that like,
23:16especially if it's something that, you know,
23:18we believe is relevant and, you know,
23:21could be meaningful to our customers,
23:23that we make sure that they are able to discover it.
23:25So we have, we call it a content-forward UI.
23:27It's where we actually surface specific shows
23:29and pieces of content versus just, you know,
23:31the app name, which may or may not, you know,
23:33kind of mean anything to the customer.
23:35And we really try and make sure that we're exposing them.
23:37And I think just to your point, you know,
23:40for the younger generation, that's really important.
23:44Go ahead, Rachel.
23:45Yeah, I think if we're making predictions,
23:49I suspect we'll, and one of the things we've seen
23:51is a lot of sort of hybrids.
23:53So we are a digital service,
23:55but what a lot of creators are doing right now
23:57are live events that are really bringing people together.
24:01I think for Twitch in particular, you know,
24:03we're talking about fandoms and community
24:04and that's time spent together.
24:06And the great thing about the internet is, you know,
24:08there are really no borders.
24:09You have a shared language, you have a shared interest,
24:11boom, you know, you guys can get connected.
24:14But there is this real desire, right,
24:16to connect in person and actually get away,
24:18I think from the screen a little bit,
24:20but they, you know, it's a flywheel, right?
24:22The in-person interactions actually feed the online
24:26and vice versa.
24:28And so I suspect we'll see more of that.
24:30And really interesting reporting from the creator economy
24:33is really high production value
24:38and some sort of like programs and tentpoles
24:42coming from creators as well.
24:44So yes, you know, on Twitch, they'll do a live stream
24:45and maybe it's, you know,
24:46they're sort of normal day-to-day,
24:47but then they'll do, you know,
24:48so high production scripted almost programming,
24:52which is really interesting to see.
24:54And then, you know, sometimes attract the attention
24:56of the Nick Peppers and get to make that leap.
25:00So, you know, it's certainly an evolving and growing space.
25:04Well, I mean, that is the exciting element
25:07of being able to have this kind of cross platform,
25:11broadly across Amazon connectivity
25:14is that you do have the opportunity for a Twitch streamer
25:17to become a huge TV or movie star
25:20because we're all kind of in the same fishbowl,
25:25if you will, of Amazon.
25:30Who is probably like the best example of that recently?
25:33I mean, Critical Role.
25:35Yeah, Critical Role.
25:36They do D&D Dungeons and Dragons.
25:38With Vox Machina.
25:39With Vox Machina.
25:39Yeah, yeah.
25:40They have a new campaign coming out relatively soon.
25:43I don't remember the exact date, but called Mighty Nein.
25:47But it seems like it's been a really great
25:49kind of cross platform collaboration
25:51and it's been great storytelling and great partnership.
25:55Yeah.
25:56Last time I talked to them,
25:57they did mention they wanted to potentially make movies.
25:59So just throwing that out there.
26:02But thank you all for joining us for this conversation
26:05because there is more to say about this topic.
26:08And I do actually encourage you to give a read
26:11to that Amazon ads to Zeitgeist study
26:13because it is focused on those global trends
26:15that are shaping culture.
26:16And we have handouts for it outside.
26:19So thank you all so much for joining us this afternoon.
26:22And thank you all so much for your time.