The world’s first artist centric payment system for music streaming was launched on Deezer in October 2023. It is designed to more fairly reward all artists who attract a consistent and engaged fan base – through boosting mechanisms, fraud detection, restrictions on noise content and a “user-centric” cap. What are the learnings from the first 6 months? What does the future hold? Join this panel for a deep dive discussion with music industry heavyweights on what the new model means to labels, distributors, artists, rights holders and the industry as a whole
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00:00:00How are you, how are you? We have had a very good chat talking about the artist-centric models
00:00:14for all those who are following the business. Well, I would say that this is one of the
00:00:19important issues, right? How are we going, how are they going to pay us in the streaming services? There are many
00:00:26talks about it, we are going to talk about why and the yes and the no, but first I want the audience
00:00:36to know about our panelist group. I would ask you to introduce yourselves, if you can talk a
00:00:45little about what your role is or what role your company plays and what is your position on
00:00:52these issues. They are John Working, Vice President of Strategy Design for one of the
00:01:01largest record companies in the world. We have been seeing this part of artist-centric
00:01:12since the beginning of last year, the idea that we were seeing was to see if we could do a
00:01:21better job and give value to the work that the artists are generating, we have been with
00:01:28Jerónimo in the industry for a long time to try to define how to solve this situation.
00:01:33Hi, I'm Jerónimo CFO of Tristar, if you don't know Bizarre well, we are a music platform,
00:01:45the second largest independent platform in the world, we are very important in France,
00:01:52in countries like Brazil and we have also been pioneers in this artist-centric part, we have
00:02:01found good, we have been looking for many ways to improve incentives and payments.
00:02:07I am Cecil Debel, CEO of the collective organization called CECIM and
00:02:16we are neither artists nor creators but we represent them. To explain to you,
00:02:23sometimes you can be a creator, a creative, an artist, but sometimes you are simply a
00:02:31creator who is behind the scenes and that is precisely what CECIM does, give value to the
00:02:38creators, that is why when this focus of artist-centric was exposed, we wanted to see what
00:02:46was the impact that was had on the public side against what was explained about the labels and
00:02:54the actors. In fact, we are the CMO that leads, I am the president and CEO of H&M, the American
00:03:07Association of Independent Music, that is why I am here, the independent sector is the largest sector,
00:03:15I think that 36% of the market share is represented in the United States.
00:03:22Our number one mission daily is to see more of the value so that it returns to the owners of
00:03:31rights everywhere because we go through a period of 25 years where the musicians, the brands,
00:03:43everyone in the ecosystem are badly paid, so we want to see how this whole situation can be improved.
00:03:51I had the privilege of being with them at the university. It is a fantastic program for
00:04:05parents and in music. I also published an email called 4LNOCAP, which gives the most
00:04:16important examples of music. Very excited to be on this panel because I think that here we will address
00:04:22the most important dynamics, we have the representatives of the independent part of
00:04:29the student platforms and the most important brands in the world on this topic here present.
00:04:34We are going to do a small test that is being carried out in France, right now it is no longer
00:04:40just theory. How long have you been running this in France? A year and a half. Well,
00:04:47then we already have some data to see how it works, what things work, what things do not
00:04:54work. I know that we have some slides that will help us bring all this information home,
00:05:00but we can briefly address one of the two topics on how you would define this
00:05:08topic of Artist-Centric. Of course, when we introduced Artist-Centric last September,
00:05:17what we wanted is to give them incentives, but turn more to the money that is being generated
00:05:25by streaming, that is, the music, the songs that our listeners love. There are many artists who
00:05:38have been in streaming for a long time, it was time to make a change, with that
00:05:43spiritually we generate Artist-Centric, we work with many players, with Universal,
00:05:50with the independents, we have been working with the producers also to bring that model to life
00:05:56and have a precedent of how the royalties would be now. In short, Artist-Centric has four
00:06:04pillars. One is to distinguish between music and noise. Many times I have said that there is a
00:06:13rain of money, we no longer pay for white noise, everything that has white noise is removed from the
00:06:23field and currently we have to replace it with its own content, but the noise no longer takes away
00:06:29the money of the artists. The second pillar, let me take a break, I remind the audience if
00:06:36you are a person who makes noise from washing machines, please use the application you have
00:06:44to send questions because after these slides we are going to fill in the questions and so
00:06:49please express your feelings about these washing machine noises, also vacuum cleaners
00:06:59please, we want everyone to feel represented and the second layer was to support true artists,
00:07:10we generate the Artist Boost, all those who have more than 100 trends or more than 5,000 followers
00:07:18will have a secondary reinforcement for the count. The idea is to have an incentive to
00:07:25support artists who do have followers because people pay $ 11.99 to listen to the art,
00:07:33the music they make, we want to support those artists. The third leg was basically
00:07:40artistic streamings, we wanted to get the impact of the algorithms, if people look for
00:07:49music proactively, there we also give them a reinforcement, that helps them participate because
00:07:56that means that people love that music, not the one that we present to them and finally one that
00:08:03is a little less under the spotlight is the user cap, that is, each user is counted in the group but
00:08:14only captures in these streams to prevent abuse of the system. We have seen that there has been a
00:08:20lot of increase but I think a very smart way to be able to include this concept of centered
00:08:28in the user, we have to go directly to this model of centered in the user because it
00:08:37generates less disruption between genders, this user cap generates many benefits without so much
00:08:46disruption and I think it is a good way to start and around all this there is a very direct
00:08:55detection of fraud, we see that lately fraud has risen and well we are
00:09:03doing better and better in the detection of frauds, we know that in this industry there are many
00:09:09frauds, there is a lot of alteration and we have to do this here with art and centric we have to be
00:09:16very strict with fraud because this hurts everyone and everything affects the value so we give a lot
00:09:24of protection to fraud that is one of the most important columns for us also
00:09:33the conversation about art and centric is a conversation that we have had and it is divided
00:09:40into two parts, on the one hand, what I dedicate myself to to live is to make deals, the ecosystem
00:09:49currently each streaming has the same value but what we have seen is that it is a whole ecosystem,
00:09:58you do not have a machine that will have a 59% bias if you do this on a massive scale it will have
00:10:05an unintentional consequence that there are 150,000 tracks that are heard and that practically no one
00:10:12is going to hear these tracks, so we were interested in the alternate models, what we were
00:10:18seeing was to see very closely to these users or these entrances in the user because we saw that there is
00:10:26a paradox in this model of centered on the user if you do not know this model of centered on the
00:10:32user today in the model everything goes to a lot and all the streamings are paid and when it is centered
00:10:40on the user the money is divided it is a slightly different dynamic, that is, if I dedicate all my
00:10:46time listening to Taylor Swift, all my money from my monthly subscription goes to Taylor Swift,
00:10:53correct, that's right, and this model centered on the user has a very important attraction because
00:11:02people say, don't you think it's fairer that if you only listen to Taylor Swift she receives
00:11:08all your money and it sounds fair, right? I even put it with that voice, but the problem is that the way
00:11:17the streaming works is that we are not going to see the economic part of the streaming, we have to see
00:11:24the value for life, which is your purchase cost, the average income per user and your retention,
00:11:34you add that, you subtract it and there you have the cost, retention and commitment comes with the service of
00:11:40users who are very correlated between more uses because more will be and what we want to see is
00:11:46that if we could link the music that directs the acquisition or retention with the financial model
00:11:56we began to see it very closely there are thousands of models with economists and universities and we
00:12:04came to the conclusion that it is extremely complicated so Jerónimo was very good to
00:12:13ally with us so instead of us being stuck with this
00:12:17paralysis by analysis we told him this is what we want to do he told us how and we said it is
00:12:23great not mainly let's think that there may be many versions of that different services to
00:12:31acquire users in different ways not youtube has many users of voice that bring from
00:12:37apple of a massive manufacturer something happened
00:12:53and that is the type of model of the model that we want to reward, that is, we are not arbitrary
00:13:06of the good arbiters of taste, we do not want to tell you that this is music, this is not music, this is good,
00:13:11these bad ones, we are very sensitive about it because we all get up every morning worried
00:13:17about music, we wondered if we could build a model that had a better
00:13:22representation of the creation of value instead of saying everything I do on a track they must
00:13:28receive so much and so much we are going to return to that point of if they are arbiters or not and what is the
00:13:35mission and that they pay certain fees for other sounds such as for the washing machine and everything
00:13:41but there is no medium range to functional music, universal music, that is, there is no level in which
00:13:49you can act as arbiters, I understand the part of the noise, yes, I think there is not much added value
00:13:58for the human when you are hearing the noise of a washing machine, I am sorry and I apologize to the
00:14:03public if they do it but the other part that functional music or mood will not take away much
00:14:11that for that is a type of creation also good with the point of John what we did not want
00:14:19was to become the judge of what is good or bad music because that is impossible to define is
00:14:26something very subjective, however there is music that customers value that they love and there are clues
00:14:33or noise that people do not value what we are trying to do is align the incentives because
00:14:40music is currently the creative industry where everything is worth the same there is no other place
00:14:46where everything is the same in video in movies in series or in arts practically in any
00:14:51type of entertainment there is premium content and non-premium content in music the streaming
00:14:58is streaming and this is something that we do not judge but the clients and something that we saw is
00:15:06that on the side of the catalog it is exploding because we receive almost 160 and a bit thousand
00:15:14tracks per day daily as a client it is impossible to find new things when you have 130,000 new
00:15:22tracks so we launched the product years ago it was a catalog of 4 million when we did
00:15:28the follow-up two years ago it will be 9 million and right now it is almost 12 million
00:15:33millions of additional tracks that nobody wants to hear the ones that are useless and it is nothing more
00:15:39quantity without quality and basically it is to ruin the experience and make it difficult for
00:15:46marketers and as part of that we have also been clearing the catalog and I can
00:15:55announce that in the last few months we had to delete 25 million of our file, no more than
00:16:0725 million tracks that had no value for our clients, we have not been talking for a few
00:16:12years to increase these tracks for the catalogs and give them more value and now they delete them but
00:16:19well the last question I have is why I think you already answered a bit a part of that
00:16:25of why we are talking about this now something has to do with this rapid expansion of the
00:16:33catalogs the part of the explosion of and there are people who just upload the tracks to experiment
00:16:41and I think it is fair to say also that there is another reality where the rest of the markets
00:16:48some of the streaming are encouraging and they are also generating other income well that is a
00:16:57correct summary of why things are as they are good basically we have reached a point where
00:17:05things are so obvious that we have to evolve there is the threat of the AI and the growth of
00:17:13streaming has also grown I think it is a combination of everything, everything, that is, when there is so much
00:17:20growth, we are going to give the word to Cecilia, we are seeing in the newspapers how much is paid
00:17:29to the headlines of the rights, not 9 million, but when you see it at an individual level by
00:17:39creator in addition to these large figures, the same thing happens with streaming, it is a lot of money but
00:17:48there is really so much dilution that in the end people do not receive almost anything is not enough
00:17:57I think that then it is extremely crucial to put more focus on the artist who is a true
00:18:03song and I am not talking about white noise not with the washing machines I am also talking about
00:18:09the aspirator who is the actor the woman in that department I do not know well first all the
00:18:21idea of noise noise is the same as a song that someone labels a track that someone
00:18:28labeled for a group of people there is a lot of investment that also comes from there so I
00:18:36I am very impressed by what John did just to eliminate the noise I think that is something surprising
00:18:42these models are going to produce a series of consequences and it is good that people know it
00:18:50on the other hand I just returned I just saw the Goldman Sachs report in June and it is very obvious
00:18:57for us that we have already been here for many years that music at this time is no longer well
00:19:03monetized, you do not compare the subscription prices against any streaming service against
00:19:11the video in demand and there is no comparison at least in the United States and in Europe
00:19:17too, that is, you cannot get everything from a video streaming service, you have to have 5 4 and
00:19:23there you are going to spend 5 or 6 times more in streaming services than you would spend on music
00:19:29and I would say that music has more value than video, nothing more on the basis that you can listen to
00:19:34music all day and people do it, that is, its use is more intense, so to speak, I want to put
00:19:41that on pause for a moment, you mentioned that there are concerns obviously from the perspectives,
00:19:48not that it is the voice and that you represent someone else, we have already said this and it is something public that the
00:19:57pool is not going to change, these are the dollars and that is what we are talking about here, who is going to
00:20:03get those dollars, how is it going to change something that I have seen in terms of the information that
00:20:09I have had access to is that there are these reinforcements, you did not mention these four pillars, you talk about these
00:20:16reinforcements, I do not know for artists who are the reasons why people approach our
00:20:23service or if artists who play their music for an algorithm and that is not necessarily why
00:20:34they are going to earn more money, that is, my question has to do with the independent part and the
00:20:39public, you are also concerned about all that and you are also concerned about the people
00:20:46who represent, well from the point of view of the independents, the decision has to do with
00:20:53those brands, with the labels or most of our labels go in favor of these systems,
00:20:59however I think Cecilia took a good point at the end, the industry depends on the writers,
00:21:06the musicians and if we do not take care of them, we will not have an industry, certainly that is my
00:21:13story and it worries me a lot, not even when I represent brands and labels, but I think we should not
00:21:21assume that this is a fixed number, we have done something very crazy in the music industry, but
00:21:30we must all give their money with what we receive, I think that the layer that has been implemented
00:21:37so far is very protective and even protects the emerging ones because they have 5,000 followers,
00:21:46that is, if you do not have 500 followers on an international platform, I do not think you are going
00:21:57to survive, that is, and they will not pay you, that is the solution of another platform, we will see
00:22:04what is going to happen, but here if they pay you, but they pay you less and the time it takes you to
00:22:11develop your audience, imagine when you used to start as a young creative in a bar, they paid you
00:22:22very little before going with the rhythm of Taylor Swift, I do not like it because they continue to pay
00:22:29something, but if it is true there is a reinforcement for others, not until they have 500 followers, I think
00:22:35we are still protecting all our genres strategically, no, no, I want to say
00:22:43something about it, wait a minute because I know that you are already dying to say something, I just want to
00:22:49gather two points about the referees and then take the questions because all that goes hand in
00:22:55hand in some way, definitely if we want to see the slides but
00:23:01something amazing that has happened is that we have been seeing the graphics of the
00:23:072022 streaming services and disc number 7 on that list was Taylor Swift, it must have been number one,
00:23:20but hey, the number 6 was the number 6, it was aspirator noise for babies, that is, that is
00:23:32magical, of course, of course, but just give it a kiss and that's enough and you sleep, no, that is,
00:23:40the powerful experience is that or the learning is that you are asleep, you are talking about
00:23:50white noise or whatever this functional music is that you are not choosing, you are sleeping,
00:23:59they are increments of 20 seconds back, you are not listening to Taylor Swift for 8 or 9 hours and
00:24:06if you had it like that you could use it or go 24 hours, that is, there is a great distortion that favors
00:24:14and people learn how to play this, the opposite of this and believe me I know there is a lot of
00:24:24criticism about reducing the payments if you don't have so many and so many streamers, but what
00:24:31frustrates me and that no one says is that we are talking about thousands of streamers for context we are
00:24:38talking about three dollars for all those people who are saying no and what happens with the artist
00:24:46we are talking about three dollars I can say something there quickly no let me finish this
00:24:51point please because those artists who are paid three dollars number one are not living
00:24:58from that maybe one day they will do it and no one is saying that their music has to be lowered or that they do not
00:25:04have to be available but we are not talking about artists who earn three money if I want to say it
00:25:12again the question is not that I do not think that when this news arrived many people said oh my God
00:25:17they are no longer going to pay people I think that to be fair if we see these rational figures I
00:25:22come to the conclusion that you are saying right now not if we are going to lose this for three dollars
00:25:28a year and you are going to have these benefits for the other artists I understand it makes sense but I
00:25:33rather believe that the question has to do with talking to all those artists who
00:25:37are being paid and how the distribution of those income is going to change with this model focused
00:25:42on the artist we are not talking about this model of two dollars we are talking about the artist of
00:25:47thousands of dollars and how that figure is going to change with this change of vision focused on the
00:25:53artist or focused on the user I mean all this I think it would be a good time to see it
00:26:01see the slides because I bring data with me
00:26:08with this focus based on the artist focused on the artist here it is
00:26:13here in artist centric what we are seeing is that there is a 10% increase that goes to the
00:26:23true artist here removing the noise the fraud and all the things that we have mentioned there is
00:26:30an increase of 10% and obviously there is also a turn between genres because as you do the cap here
00:26:38in the one focused on the user, people think 10% but there is an increase of 10% that is, it is like
00:26:44an 8% finally and French music has a 15% increase, that is, the local artist has
00:26:52a massive benefit even when he loses he has benefits from the system so everyone absolutely
00:26:58everyone the independent artists an artist of an important label all benefits with
00:27:05this artist centric always and when they generate valuable content that means everything that is willing
00:27:13to buy it for at least 500 people if you do not have 500 people who do not listen to your
00:27:18music you will not be able to live from that to anyone but anyone who can generate this
00:27:24can benefit from artist centric we can go to the next slide to share the
00:27:30data the second has to do with this reinforcement in the Arctic Stream and with this the catalogs are benefited
00:27:41because we have more data points so basically what we are doing benefiting
00:27:46the new releases or because also what we want is to help those people who are creating
00:27:53new music artists who are emerging with new music and for others it takes them longer to
00:28:01discover new artists, that is, this model brings us more money to new releases and the
00:28:09next one also what we have seen is the benefit of local music this has to do with the point
00:28:16you say we were seeing who are the most important artists in this area who do not qualify
00:28:22for this reinforcement of the artists who are up that nothing else is on that edge of achieving it
00:28:30but that does not do it and who does not achieve it see that list noise fraud and functional music and one that
00:28:39is out there is music for babies basically there is not a true artist here on this list which
00:28:50also shows that the artists are benefiting from the system or they are simply very small and
00:28:57still do not start one more another slide reiterate the issue of fraud what we have seen is that
00:29:07fraud has been growing drastically in these days in these years and we are also improving
00:29:15detection but we need to address it this is something that cannot go unnoticed we have
00:29:21to monitor it and we have all the fraud is detected and removed from the pool
00:29:30we are being very strict when changing the system you have and you take away some incentives for that
00:29:38fraud you take away the money and then people are going to want to cheat less, that is, you will always
00:29:44have to fight against that but you also take away the economic incentives and thus you fight against
00:29:51fraud, this is not the time to change the system because we cannot let this system grow
00:29:57they did an analysis in this period of six months of how to share all these of the important brands
00:30:04or the 100 best artists and show where the income is redistributed differently if we have
00:30:12done it what we have seen is that the best best artists are basically the same they have not
00:30:19lost much because they also benefit from the algorithm that is, they get less in that but the
00:30:25best artists basically get the best there is not much change but those who are in the middle
00:30:31that fraud really does benefit are those who really need it more because they are the ones
00:30:37who have enough followers and a little more money 10 15 percent more that makes a difference
00:30:43and obviously those from below there is if you do not have a follow-up there is where you are really going
00:30:49to earn less up to 30 40 percent less but here we are talking about three dollars a year, that is, it
00:30:55does not matter if you make two or three dollars a year, it does not make much difference either, that is, these are two
00:31:02dollars or three dollars a year, they no longer pay them, no, no, that's Spotify, we do pay them,
00:31:09we are the ones who pay, this is the difference between our model and others, well, I also
00:31:15like Spotify if we pay the small artists too, this is something that we have seen and then
00:31:23when you see the independents and the big brands, the independents on the list
00:31:30are basically independents and in fact Universal is not the one that benefits the most in the system,
00:31:37all the other brands are the ones that benefit the most and above we have
00:31:44private brands have fewer artists but artists in which they put a lot of emphasis and we believe
00:31:52in pushing them obviously there are also the important record brands because they have
00:31:58high quality artists, that is, everyone who has a high quality artist will benefit from this
00:32:05system, what we have seen is that on average everyone has an increase of 10% in their
00:32:11royalties, maybe I did not understand it well but what I see from Universal is that it is a
00:32:17public company that has many responsibilities to earn a lot of money for streaming services
00:32:22and my question for you is due to this six-month trial as it has gone in this
00:32:29test as universal they have learned something they have money they have earned more money with deezer
00:32:37I think I cannot divulge any of that good information the good answer as friends go
00:32:44I think that Jerónimo took a very important point to breakfast, I already told you what we are trying to
00:32:57achieve depending on the area, there are many cynical people in the world who think that this is the
00:33:02way in which Universal ruins us, not all those who know me or know Universal know
00:33:08that this is 100% absolute because here what we want is for the ecosystem to work in such a way
00:33:15that supports everyone and the truth is that we have the highest vote but if we can do it
00:33:21well then it will be good for everyone and honestly independent artists take advantage of
00:33:28the models much more than us because they bring more commitment and that is wonderful they do not believe
00:33:34because we should wake up every morning thinking about how we can help our
00:33:41users to have better records if we are doing this we would upload it we were doing it all
00:33:48we would all benefit for a moment and then I do a follow-up question, it seems to me, that is, I see it
00:33:54as well as a skeptical professional, not as an educator, as a journalist, I have to ask
00:34:02difficult questions, I do not think that the difficult question here or the reason why some of the
00:34:08skepticism is fed is because no one loses in this scenario, you will not see it in my
00:34:16position right now, I present it to you, look, I just want to confirm what Jonathan just said,
00:34:23we had never met, we met today, but we are so good that non-universal music at the
00:34:30international level, the rights of Taylor Swift, the rights, well I am not going to mention all the
00:34:37stars, but they have an interest in their rights and to represent their rights in more than 150
00:34:48countries in the world, I can tell you that our argument for universal to say that is that
00:34:57all members of SESAM benefit from the negotiations that we have with universal,
00:35:07that is, it is true what universal says and here I am not talking about TikTok when you have a player
00:35:14as important as them and they show you the way of course that sometimes there is a conflict of
00:35:20interests because in the end it is a business but honestly you protect the rights and that justifies
00:35:27everything, that is, they go on board to others and they are protected, that protection is global,
00:35:34really to respond directly to your question, I do not wake up in the morning thinking how
00:35:44I can earn more money for universal music, there they are listening to you, they are not going to listen to you,
00:35:51I don't understand it, but you know that I wake up in the morning thinking about how to be able to do
00:35:56the right things for the artists, that is the conversation we are having how to be able to do
00:36:02the right thing for the artists and as a result of that universal benefits, but that is not
00:36:07our orientation and the most critical thing is that we are going to be a worried, successful company
00:36:16for 100, 150 thousand years, well nobody knows what is going to happen in music last year but
00:36:23the year that comes in but hey we need a sustainable ecosystem because if we have an
00:36:29ecosystem that is not sustainable the question is what would happen when you have a thousand
00:36:35million tracks, how is that platform built, how do consumers deal with that, we are not
00:36:41talking about having incentives, the structures in the right place, thank you, we have a couple of
00:36:50slides of Susan that you have learned, look at nothing else to comment on,
00:36:55that is, we are leaders and we are in a free market, we do not have a very protective legal environment
00:37:07here in France and in many other countries where we work and we developed these platforms four
00:37:16years ago when this idea was launched centered on the user, an analysis was done on the analysis that
00:37:23was made in our income and it is true at that time we were not very convinced about this
00:37:31focus centered on the user because as they have mentioned there was a great impact especially
00:37:37in what was hip hop and rap, there you have it, it is that part, that pillar, the rosita,
00:37:47you can see it, hip hop, rap was going down in that scheme, unfortunately you can imagine, we are
00:37:59talking about an urban artist and others were going to benefit so much too, but in the end you have
00:38:07someone who loses a lot but who is not a benefit for others either, that is, because I think
00:38:15on my side there was still that dilution for the white noise and you know that something for which we fought a lot
00:38:24during those two years and I think that goes hand in hand with your comment the value of the subscription
00:38:31that was very low now we are talking about two more years and when you see what this platform has achieved
00:38:37, giving more value to the subscription is very good so now after three years or four
00:38:44years we have this analysis centered on the artist we did six months of data analysis and you can see
00:38:54that contemporary French songs are increasing and of course hip hop is losing but you can
00:39:04see that it does not have a great impact only 0.4 percent, that is, it is more balanced, it seems to me and I know
00:39:13that this is a first step and I am sure that all the brands that will participate in that process
00:39:20will also review the platform in two or three years, it seems to me that it is a continuous process
00:39:28because what is safe and what we have to have a lot of clarity is that if we do not bring
00:39:34enough value to the right holders and we have to think about the creators in the artists of course
00:39:41the AI will be there and it will be very difficult then to be able to gain or live from creativity look
00:39:53it seems to me that all this is very good these figures that 13.4 percent worldwide is
00:40:01very good of this we are talking about a lot of money 13 billion dollars solve part of the
00:40:07problem but beyond that or as I told you before if you are an artist author writer you cannot
00:40:14create enough titles unless you have a great name you cannot generate so many rights to
00:40:20have a good way of living it is worth noting again I have said it many times and what a shame
00:40:27that he repeats it but we are still 35 40 percent below the dollars that we had in 1990 as a country
00:40:39that is 14 billion dollars in the United States but how much we had before and this
00:40:46or that in 1999 was represented more than 40 million not good or
00:40:54the fact that we give everything to all services we have several services not this new spotify
00:41:01that are using this for physical products and other goods and services it seems to me that it is
00:41:08problematic we do not see it with the networks and with the services of the networks also no one has addressed
00:41:15that at the moment but if we need to return to that place where music we have seen tons of
00:41:24services consumers say that music is the most valuable subscription we do not have data on that
00:41:35we did was the first platform to open to raise prices occurred because it is so much
00:41:42value for money we saw the return and then we made the second increase in the price and we
00:41:50announced it a couple of months ago with our results with our results we have done it twice
00:41:57because there is great value for money in music and we see that there is a lot of potential there
00:42:01still if we see what he has done with two price increases plus the part of focused on the artist
00:42:07we have improved a lot in the two and a half years to increase up to 30% what is paid to
00:42:13our artists just with that and it is a combination of things arctic center and the payment model are
00:42:20very important because you have to take the money from the pool to pay it to the people to the
00:42:26right people one part is the pool and another is to make sure that the pool reaches the artist
00:42:34correct and we are addressing both issues I do not want to see the questions that are coming if it is
00:42:39possible I can answer something that Richard said because I am also very passionate about that topic
00:42:45and we have not talked about that but also for us this business model is this part
00:42:53focused on the artist is a philosophy and also a business model but if we see it in a
00:42:58strategic way this approach is only the first step in the next step and perhaps the most exciting step
00:43:07of what people are talking about everywhere currently is how we can give a price
00:43:14to segmentation how we give value to those people who want to pay more who are admirers
00:43:22or are in addition to the experience of streaming everyone is trying to determine that but the
00:43:28first step has to do with that part of assignment of royalties the second step already has to do
00:43:33with serving the fans and these premium models I think that from here to 5-10 years we will see
00:43:43in retrospective and we will see that people had many questions and that a lot of time passed to
00:43:49be able to give an answer to all these streaming services, there is a lot of money here, we made that
00:43:57mistake at the beginning of the 2000s when all these platforms emerged and we charged them for
00:44:05ten dollars a month, I do not think that my impression is that we are at that point where that is going to
00:44:10start to change but to the point that I commit, I did not spend thousands of dollars on records, I can
00:44:23spend that money but there are many things that can be done I think it is a good first
00:44:31step in the correct direction in the correct direction
00:44:34or I do not want someone to charge me more no no I do I know that you your boss is going to be happier
00:44:45with that not to conclude what they were saying because for that month it is very important you have to
00:44:52have control of the data that is an argument that we have conditions we have all the
00:44:58streams that have been made not by the clients and then all the layers how they are impacting
00:45:06each of the creators and we can explain to our own members how to achieve that
00:45:15distribution, that is, imagine Richard and I have talked about it for a million streamers, maybe
00:45:24they do not pay us the same, we have to have all the correct explanation for our artists, we do not have
00:45:31a commitment on the part of Deezer to have all these transparent data, it is a different dynamic
00:45:38in the world, that is, it seems to me that in the part of the publication it is not related to
00:45:48that 1% of the artist honestly when you see the first 100 it is very focused also even
00:45:57in the publication not in the trends for example we have a very strong local repertoire and we have
00:46:05this approach that focuses a lot on hip hop in that music it is incredible that is this type of
00:46:13middle class or that middle strip that Jerónimo was referring to is the one that is really going to
00:46:19suffer, we do not want them to reach another level of success and for the distribution
00:46:27something else that we have talked a lot about in advertising for writers once you move away
00:46:33from that physical model because the part of the tracks of the albums is already there and that affects a lot
00:46:40there is a number of people who had earned a lot of money publishing and no longer true I am not
00:46:50saying that it is bad but this streaming model rewards the things you listen to but
00:46:57definitely if it is a change and affects that is if you see the 100 best songs each song has
00:47:05an artist but there are 100 artists or musicians who contributed to that we are not going to see some of
00:47:14the questions of the public please the first one when they are expanding to Europe if this is
00:47:24successful well we have already run the model for France I think we are going to deploy it
00:47:33globally that would be the next step to move from France to the world and Universal is a partner
00:47:40that is promoting all this they are still focused on this focus on being focused on the artist 100%
00:47:50I do not want to put words in your mouth but tell me this 100% is a great support, we do not
00:47:56believe in the model, we believe that we are doing the right thing, well, I'm not laughing, really, no, no, no, I
00:48:04understand, I know, let me see here, this is another interesting question, how do you see these
00:48:15payment systems of focused on the artist, the system is being modeled for a few years from now
00:48:22, that is, these rules are becoming the rules of the game and people have to
00:48:28know the rules of the game so that well in our case it is a very competitive panorama that if you
00:48:48what you want is to have the best artists, composers, if you can check that thanks to
00:48:53your system you are going to give them value, the rest of the industry is going to follow them, that is, the one who can
00:48:59say that thanks to the creation of this they were paid more and better, not because if there is concrete proof of
00:49:08this, not everyone will follow it, what we are trying to do is not only change the
00:49:14rules, but rather change them in such a way that it takes advantage and helps those who play the
00:49:21game in a fair way and so that it is fair, make sure that there are no longer these 30-
00:49:30second clues that are played that are played and that is not a behavior that is changing the industry is the fraud,
00:49:37sorry sorry Richard
00:49:41all the idea that supports this is the play will play will is to reward the
00:49:49commitment the high-value commitment of the fans to the artists by encouraging that the
00:49:55artists make a better commitment with the fans you have greater commitment with the fans you have
00:50:05greater retention that gives them bad value for the streaming services that reinforces the fact that now
00:50:12they focus more on sharing in compromising behavior instead of dissuading it so this
00:50:19is an ecosystem where all participants are favored and if we do it very well at scale
00:50:27we will have a greater commitment between artists and fans and once you have that commitment I think
00:50:33you said it in some way you are not also going to have other opportunities to monetize that
00:50:38fan-artist relationship, no tickets, fusions, all that and it seems to me that it is also important to separate
00:50:44fraud from playing in the system because this thing of those of playing 30 seconds because it is not so much
00:50:51fraud, it is rather the way in which the system was configured with these 30-second touches,
00:50:59there are others who are really doing fraud, so I think we have to be very proactive in that
00:51:07sense but we are also not seeing everything and that is the problem, there is something to see at some
00:51:15point, we are changing the phase of creativity when one says that everything has to be in 30
00:51:24seconds and no one wants to make a long track
00:51:31to answer this question I would say
00:51:37that
00:51:40there is a very well-known world dj that we did very well with him, it is Spotify teaser,
00:51:46they are going to pay better, but what would happen with the rest of the platform? Because they are going to do
00:51:54an analysis on their income that comes from different platforms, that is, it will be very strange
00:52:00at least for me if someone has this centric model in the market, that is, if they do not have
00:52:11profit, especially the big ones, do not remember Swift Taylor who asked Apple to increase that,
00:52:20it would not surprise us much that Taylor Swift would say no, that is not a problem, I do not get much but it is fine, follow it like that
00:52:29there are questions about the dollars, one is to move away from the platforms, that is, it is the
00:52:38money from the platform, how does that bring income instead of benefiting the artists, maybe
00:52:43as we can see this again, that is, I think I have seen some figures, not 40,000
00:52:54million dollars out there or here, that is, we can talk a little about those dollars and of course
00:53:00basically in terms of the distribution pool, that money is distributed to the artists, that is why it
00:53:11benefits us, we do not save money, when we launch this focus on the artist, we do not
00:53:20save money, which means that we are going to have better content on the platform, users do not
00:53:27pay a subscription to have a lot of content that does not confuse them, they want to have a great
00:53:34experience, a valuable content, we do it because it is the correct thing because it is something that will give them a
00:53:42good experience and from the perspective of money we are distributing it now
00:53:50if we have some savings because it costs money to store all that content, we do not have a large
00:53:57amount of content that is growing exponentially, what we are doing is
00:54:02depurating that content that does not make sense, it is not massive, but if it generates some savings,
00:54:10however, the volume of the money in the volumetric part is distributed between the artists, how
00:54:18does this model work if you earn the money if you spend the money in those countries that do not have
00:54:24that do not pay so much in streaming, there are also markets that are directed by advertising and
00:54:30that, sorry, they already moved the question to me. Countries that are grouped with telco, for example, that is,
00:54:38I know that this has already been modeled in other areas, how do you see that this model will work with
00:54:44other markets? I believe that this model can be applied in any market with any model with
00:54:49any income, that is, basically it is distributed, the model can be applied basically in
00:54:55any country under any scenario and it does not matter if it is premium or less premium. Jonathan,
00:55:02did you want to say something? I was thinking about the question because it seems to me that it is a very
00:55:08interesting question, well, one came from one of the public, that question was incredible, well,
00:55:19it seems to me that we need to find the correct models for the indicated platforms and
00:55:25the appropriate models, the way in which we focus this is going to be very different from a
00:55:37goal tiktok or other platforms. This focus on the artist is going to be modeled, this
00:55:52financial model was focused on streaming prizes, you have to analyze very well what it means to be
00:56:00artist-centric and all that, how interesting thinking about these two platforms and this notion
00:56:05that you mentioned, I think they are differentiated platforms, we are already seeing it, the more
00:56:15a platform is differentiated from the other, it will finally be something very good, we have three minutes left,
00:56:21that is, 40 seconds for each of you who share something that we did not see if you want to
00:56:27review something else, whatever, Jonathan
00:56:35is not intentionally but well let's see some questions for Universal, is there
00:56:40something there with some idea that you want to share with us? No, I don't think so, look, I think
00:56:48we want to stay away from some of the conversation, we are trying to build a
00:57:00sustainable ecosystem that is good for us and for our clients, that is the final goal of
00:57:06all and I know that there are cynical people in the world, yes, but I do many cynical things but
00:57:13this is not cynical at all, I think that here we are really thinking about structural improvements
00:57:19for the industry because it benefits us, that is, what is good for the industry is going to be good
00:57:24for us the year that I enter I want to moderate a session that says let's see cynical bullshit
00:57:30if I invite you yes of course yes it is a therapy session Geronimo I just wanted to say that I
00:57:39really like what we have achieved with this artist-centric approach, it has been a revolution in the
00:57:44way the streaming world works, it has detonated a whole discussion for the entire
00:57:49industry, now with the data and also working with many players, we see that we have
00:57:55most of the content providers focused on this artist-centric model that also
00:58:05adds value but we also have to see the volumetric part, most content providers
00:58:16must be adopting this too and I think that is what we are going to be seeing and it is
00:58:20very exciting, congratulations, I know that you are in others in other things when you want to share it,
00:58:29sorry to interrupt you but I think the most important thing is to thank you because it is very
00:58:38sad to see that you are leaving but your leadership has been wonderful, you have been in the industry for a
00:58:46short time but you really led this initiative in a wonderful way, you stole my
00:58:53words, that is, you never steal anything from a woman, it can be something very dangerous, I just
00:59:01want to say that despite the fact that he has a very funny Spanish accent, I am very proud that
00:59:09this initiative comes out of France, it has that French touch, as you know, everything that can give
00:59:17more value to creatives is something that we will always support, yes, I thank you, thank you for this
00:59:24dialogue, you focused a lot on this in this user-centric strategy, I am very happy to see
00:59:35that we found something that will give income from this platform not only to the stars
00:59:45but to the creatives to the creators and to those who contribute so thank you very much for that and I hope to
00:59:52continue forward with these conversations to continue improving the system and the industry will always have me there
01:00:03something I want to say is that the most important thing is that we work together the
01:00:10independent artists the brands I think it would be good to return to those times where the
01:00:20music industry and the risks really give them to live to the people
01:00:27I think we can get there to those times again of the tours of music thanks to
01:00:33all of you it has been wonderful when we can all talk and go out together with
01:00:37some initiatives to improve our industry well thank you very much
01:00:45thank you to the panelists for such an interesting discussion