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00:00Joining us live now is Salah Hijazi, Chief Political Editor at the Lebanese newspaper
00:05L'Orient Le Jour. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Now first of all,
00:11what's your reaction to this stunning news, this new development?
00:17This is definitely a shock here in Lebanon. It feels like everything we knew for years has just
00:23disappeared. Lebanon has been under the influence of Hezbollah now for years now,
00:32and Hassan Nathallah was a central figure in the political spectrum as well as in strategic
00:37decisions. So the fact that he's just not here anymore feels like a shock. I think
00:42when Hezbollah announced that its leader was killed, people in the streets were screaming.
00:50Now, Salah, this news comes after intense Israeli bombardments over
00:56southern Lebanon over the past few days. What's the situation like in Dahiya right now?
01:03Dahiya is currently evacuated by a lot of its citizens. A lot of people have fled yesterday
01:08night after Israel hit the alleged headquarters of Hezbollah in Har Tehrik. After this strike,
01:19a lot of people left the neighborhood and are now displaced in downtown Beirut or in
01:27the many schools around the capital. There is a huge amount of fear and anxiety right now because
01:35Israel is continuing its carpet bombing of the suburbs of Beirut. We've had tens of buildings
01:44collapsing since yesterday and as many strikes. Well, Salah, stay with us for the time being.
01:50Let's just bring in our foreign editor, James Andre. Once again, James, Salah was just mentioning
01:57the fear and anxiety among the population in southern Lebanon. Is that what you saw as well?
02:04Oh, it is what I saw. I mean, very clearly what we saw, you know, as a team, we saw the result of
02:10one of the big strikes in southern Lebanon, but also we actually saw the first day, if you will,
02:17the main day of Israeli airstrikes in the southern part of Lebanon. The team, we were together with
02:24Karim Yayawi and Ashraf Abid, we actually witnessed five Israeli airstrikes as we were basically
02:32working in Sedan, which is just the gateway to the south, if you will. On that day,
02:37they hit over 1,000 targets. So, yes, there is complete terror, complete disorganization. Once
02:44again, we were at the funeral of Ibrahim Aqil. We spoke to the people who were in charge of security
02:52for Hezbollah at that event, which had thousands of people basically carrying his coffin across
02:57Denier. They told us that they were worried that there might be an Israeli airstrike. So,
03:02what Israel has done indeed is saw absolute terror in all these Hezbollah-controlled areas.
03:07We witnessed the people fleeing the south because indeed they've gotten messages. So,
03:12you know, the Israelis hacked the phone systems. They managed to reach people, sending them SMSs,
03:18phone calls on landlines and cell phones as part of this strategy of saying they've warned people
03:24before striking, which they use then afterwards, you know, when it comes to international law,
03:29saying that they indeed gave some warning. So, what we saw was people fleeing, taking nearly
03:34nothing, people describing chaos in the villages in the south. One person, example, one family of
03:4015 people who'd left in the same car explaining that they were attending a funeral for an unrelated
03:45death in the village and that simply, well, the Israelis started bombing at that precise moment.
03:49Some people were lightly injured at the funeral, but then they went back to their house,
03:53discovered their house had one complete wall missing, and just leapt into the car and left.
03:58They were sleeping in a classroom in Sedan when we met them. So, if you like, yes, it is complete
04:03chaos in southern Lebanon. You've got to realize that there have been 2,000, over 2,000 targeted
04:09airstrikes by Israel over the past, what, 96 hours? And of course... More than 2,000.
04:16Over 2,000. Over the past 96 hours. Yeah, absolutely. From the northern part of the country,
04:19from Harmel, where I remember doing a report that was a few years ago, which is indeed,
04:24you know, some villages are really Hezbollah strongholds, right through the Bekaa Valley
04:29and to the south of the country. So, yes, what we have is a massive, of course, aerial bombing
04:34campaign that's been taking place. And the result of that, of course, is fear. And you've got to
04:39realize that, once again, the disappearance of Hassan Neshala is huge news. The man has been
04:46absolutely central and pivotal for the organization, and Lebanon at large,
04:50for the last 30 years. So, the question mark is, now, what will Hezbollah do?
04:55Well, Israel, on the other hand, has maintained, has accused Hezbollah of using the civilian
05:03population as a human shield. Now, is that argument, sentiment shared among the population
05:09there? Oh, definitely not. But, if you like, the thing is, you will have two views to that story.
05:15If you take the local population, they will tell you that Israel is bombing indiscriminately
05:20and that they are killing civilians and that they don't have a problem with that.
05:24On the other hand, the Israelis will tell you that, indeed, Hezbollah leadership is using
05:29these residential buildings atop their underground bases as human shields. But
05:36this is something they've been saying, as well, when it comes to Hamas in the Gaza Strip. But
05:39that is very much questions that will be asked when it comes to the legality of these strikes
05:47later on, if you will. I mean, it's very much the question of how much damage,
05:53collateral damage, call it what you will, how many civilian people can die for a military
06:01objective. The international law is complex when it comes to that. It states that you have to
06:06avoid to inflict unnecessary suffering to civilian populations. Define that. So, you know,
06:11obviously, this is going to be two sides of the same story. In the same way, we've been seeing
06:16strikes on, you know, with secondary blasts. The Israelis will tell you that that was because it
06:22was a weapons depot of Hezbollah. Hezbollah supporters will tell you that it's because
06:25it was close to a petrol station. The petrol station blew up. That is, I would say, basically
06:29the fog of war. And that is very much the same situation when it comes to these strikes on
06:37military targets, which are in the vicinity of a civilian infrastructure. But the fact of the
06:43matter is, yes, there has been extensive damage. A very large number of civilians, including women
06:50and children, have been killed in these various strikes in the southern suburbs of Beirut,
06:57which are densely populated. I mean, we were there, we saw it, and we saw the kind of damage.
07:02The building Ismail Akil was holding this high-level meeting with, it is believed,
07:0610 other leaders on the branch of Hezbollah had collapsed totally. There was strictly nothing
07:12left of it. I saw that. There was rubble. So, of course, you know, we still don't have the death
07:18toll of yesterday evening's strike, but you can expect it to be very high indeed.
07:23Now, let's cross back to Lebanon to speak with Salah Hijazi, chief political editor
07:28at the Lebanese newspaper L'Oréan Le Jour. Salah, we've been speaking with James about how
07:36the relationship between the general public and Hezbollah, what has been historically?
07:44Can you go back to tell us more about the relationship between the militant group
07:48and the Lebanese population?
07:52Hezbollah is definitely a popular group here in Lebanon, especially among the Shia community.
07:59Hezbollah is perceived as the liberator of 2000 when the Israelis retreated from
08:05south Lebanon and also as it is perceived as the author of the victory of 2006 after the July war.
08:14So, what can we expect from now on?
08:21I think right now there is a lot of confusion amongst the popular base of the party,
08:27especially that we don't know the fate of either Naeem Qasem, who is the deputy of Hassan Nasrallah
08:35or Hashem Safieddine, who is his designated successor. So, there's a lot of uncertainty
08:42going on about their fate. And I'd say that most Hezbollah supporters are now living in a
08:51dual crisis. The first is the loss of their leader, whom they perceive as a very popular,
08:57very charismatic person that contributed to several milestones in their history,
09:05and the fact that they don't know who will succeed them.
09:09Now, so there is a lot of uncertainty, but certainly
09:13people aren't expecting that this would be a decisive blow to end Hezbollah as a militant
09:20group then. Actually, in Lebanon in particular, the killing of sectarian and political leaders
09:30historically had impacted political dynamics. The assassination of Bashir al-Mayyad in 1982
09:39marks in many ways the end of Maronite supremacy in the country. The killing of Rafiq Hayri in
09:472005 also marks a turning point for Sunni influence in the country. But at the same time, unlike
09:55other political parties, Hezbollah is a very institutionalized party. So, one might say that
10:01the assassination of its secretary general does not mean the end of the group. We still really
10:06don't know which of these two dynamics will succeed or will unfold.
10:13And where is the Lebanese government in all this? What's the role, I mean,
10:19Lebanon's regular army, what role does it have in this conflict?
10:25Lebanon's state is a rather weak state, especially now since Lebanon does not have a president.
10:37The government now is expediting current affairs. So, by its nature, Lebanon is weak,
10:44and these two circumstances are adding to this weakness. The prime minister is now focusing on
10:54diplomatic contacts to avoid even further escalation, but that's pretty much all it
10:59can do. As for the army, it is trying to manage as much as possible the flow of displaced people.
11:07Well, Salah Hijazi speaking to us from Lebanon. Thank you so much for your insight.