French far-right figurehead Marine Le Pen went on trial this Monday on charges of embezzling European Parliament money, in a case that could endanger her presidential ambitions. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to Olivier Costa, a research professor at Sciences Po university. He says that it will be very difficult for Le Pen to make her case and that a conviction could have a serious impact on support for the National Rally from more moderate voters.
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Apropos.
00:04The case has the potential to derail her presidential ambitions.
00:08French far-right leader Marine Le Pen has gone on trial,
00:11along with other members of the National Rally,
00:13on charges of embezzling European parliamentary funds
00:17by creating fake jobs.
00:19If convicted, the sanctions could include jail,
00:22but also a decade-long ban from public office,
00:25putting paid to Le Pen's hopes of succeeding Emmanuel Macron
00:29in the 2027 presidential election.
00:32With the details, here's Emerald Maxwell.
00:35The long-time leader of France's far-right, Marine Le Pen,
00:39standing trial in a case that could derail her future political plans.
00:43Le Pen is accused of embezzling European parliament funds.
00:48Arriving at court in Paris Monday, Le Pen denied any wrongdoing.
00:53I approach this trial with great serenity.
00:57I haven't broken any rules.
00:59No political rule,
01:02and no regulatory rule of the European Parliament.
01:07Le Pen has been charged alongside her father, Jean-Marie,
01:11who founded the National Rally party,
01:13and two dozen current and former party members.
01:16Prosecutors say that for 12 years, beginning in 2004,
01:20money destined for EU parliament work was instead used
01:24to pay staff who did political work for the party.
01:27It wasn't just money here and there.
01:31It was a system that was put in place
01:33and that started with Jean-Marie Le Pen
01:35and continued with Marine Le Pen
01:37to centralize the money allocated by the European Parliament.
01:41The European Parliament's money is money that belongs to the European people.
01:46At the time of the alleged embezzlement,
01:48the National Rally party was facing severe financial problems.
01:52Despite denying any wrongdoing,
01:54the party has already paid back €1 million to the European Parliament,
01:58including over €300,000 that were directly linked to Le Pen's alleged misuse.
02:04If found guilty, the defendants could face up to 10 years in jail,
02:09a €1 million fine,
02:11and be barred for up to five years from public office.
02:14That last penalty would deal a huge blow to Le Pen,
02:18who is widely seen as a front-runner in the 2027 presidential election.
02:25Well, to discuss, we're joined by political analyst Olivier Costa,
02:29research professor at Sciences Po.
02:31Thank you so much for being with us on the program this evening, Olivier.
02:35As we heard there, this would be a devastating blow for Marine Le Pen
02:39if she is convicted.
02:41These charges were filed after a nine-year investigation.
02:44What exactly is Marine Le Pen accused of,
02:47and how serious are these alleged offences?
02:51Yeah, it's a very serious case.
02:53It's not the first time that some politicians or political parties
02:56are accused of using some parliamentary assistant
02:59to do some job for their party or at home for other activities.
03:04But in the case of the Rassemblement National,
03:07they really created a system to systematically use
03:11part of the parliamentary assistant
03:13they were allowed to hire to work in Paris
03:16only for the party or only for the leaders of the party,
03:20even as bodyguards for Jean-Marie Le Pen or Marine Le Pen.
03:25So it's a very serious case.
03:27And Marine Le Pen is pretending that she broke no rule.
03:31But the rules of the European Parliament are very clear.
03:34People who are paid by the European Parliament as staff members for MEPs
03:38can only do work related to the European Parliament
03:42and to the mandate of the MEPs.
03:44Well, Marine Le Pen denies her undoing, as does the National Rally.
03:48What exactly is its defence?
03:50It appears to be arguing that this case actually stems from
03:54cultural differences between Paris and Brussels
03:57in terms of what constitutes being an employee of a political party.
04:02So what exactly does that mean?
04:04And what do you believe the defence is going to be over the next two months?
04:08Yeah, she cannot deny the fact
04:10because the file is a very complete one
04:13and there is no doubt that they have done that.
04:15So her argument is to say that here there is a cultural divergence,
04:19that in the European Parliament people would have
04:22some sort of German political culture saying that
04:25parliamentary assistants are some sort of staff members
04:29of the European Parliament, like civil servants.
04:32And she said that in France we have a different approach
04:35because parliamentary assistants are more involved in political work.
04:39And so political work is not only writing amendments,
04:42it can be done also in Paris to help a politician doing politics.
04:47But the argument is a bit weak because the text,
04:50the rules of the European Parliament are very clear.
04:53There is especially a new regulation that was adopted in 2009
04:57which is clearly stating that a parliamentary assistant
05:01cannot work for political parties
05:03and must work in link with the activities of the European Parliament.
05:07So I think it will be very difficult for Marine Le Pen to make a case
05:11but she has no other choice than to propose something
05:14and to say that indeed we did that but we were of good faith.
05:19And the main risk here for Marine Le Pen,
05:22it's not particularly financial, it is of course political.
05:26What kind of impact could this have on her presidential ambitions
05:30if she is found guilty?
05:32There can be two impacts.
05:33The first one would be ineligibility.
05:36Marine Le Pen not being able to run for the next presidential election
05:40that should become in 2027
05:43or maybe earlier if Macron decides to resign.
05:46But even if she's not eligible,
05:50there will be an impact on her public image.
05:52I think maybe the 10 or 15% of voters of the Rassemblement National
05:57who have been voting for that party for 20 years,
05:59they would not care.
06:01Like the electors of Donald Trump don't care
06:04when he's involved in some legal cases.
06:07But the other one, those who are more moderate,
06:10who are finding that Marine Le Pen was right
06:13when saying that justice must be tough, that rules must be respected,
06:17then maybe they would find it a bit funny
06:20for Marine Le Pen to be convicted of something
06:23even if she's not eligible,
06:25if she's condemned to be obliged to pay something.
06:28It would not look good.
06:30But some in her own party, they seem to be suggesting
06:32that Marine Le Pen and the National Rally,
06:34they will remain in the media spotlight now
06:36over the next few weeks, over the next two months.
06:38And she herself will be in court as much as possible.
06:42Do you think that perhaps is part of the party's legal strategy
06:46to remain in the headlines?
06:48Oh yeah, it's a very good strategy.
06:51It's a poker game.
06:53It may be something good for her,
06:55especially if she can convince people that she's harassed by the system,
07:00that people in the European Parliament and the judge in France,
07:02they don't like them,
07:04and basically they just try to make her quiet.
07:08But at the same time, she's exposing herself very much.
07:11And usually when politicians are involved in such situations,
07:15they send their lawyers.
07:16They don't come in person.
07:18So I think it's a very risky strategy for Marine Le Pen.
07:21As you mentioned earlier,
07:23her party, it's not the first French one
07:25to face accusations of misusing MEP funds.
07:29The centrist MoDem party was fined €300,000 earlier this year
07:33over similar allegations.
07:35But how does this case differ?
07:37Marine Le Pen appears to be suggesting that it's quite similar actually.
07:40It's quite different,
07:42because the size of the case is much smaller.
07:45Because in the case of the Rassemblement National,
07:47we're talking about €7 million.
07:49In the case of the centrist party,
07:51it was only a bit less than €300,000.
07:53Also, the judge was not able to prove
07:55that it was something really systematically organised.
07:58But nevertheless, 8% were condemned in the case of the centrist.
08:03So it's only the head of the party
08:06that was not finally judged guilty.
08:10And so Marine Le Pen is saying,
08:12here's the difference in treatment,
08:14because the centrist, they get rid of that,
08:16and now they are chasing them.
08:18It's not exactly true.
08:20So the centrist party, it was a smaller case,
08:22and 8% had to face some quite important sanctions.
08:28And Olivier, has the European Parliament itself
08:30been impacted by these allegations?
08:32Lawyers in Brussels are suggesting
08:34that it suffered financial and reputational damage.
08:37Is that the case?
08:39Oh yeah, it is,
08:40because people have quite a bad image of the European Union
08:43not being able to use decently public money
08:46and the money of European citizens.
08:48So it's a very important case for the European Parliament,
08:51especially after the cataract two years ago,
08:54with those allegations of corruption and so on.
08:56So it's very important for the European Parliament
08:58to show that European funds are not misused
09:02in the European Parliament,
09:03that they're taking that very seriously,
09:05and that there are very strict rules to be respected.
09:07And it's true that there are tons of rules in Brussels,
09:10and all people working with EU institutions know that.
09:13And so it's an occasion for the European Parliament
09:16to show that they take that very seriously.
09:18And finally, we've been watching images of him
09:20sitting alongside his mentor as we've been speaking with you,
09:23Olivier Jordan-Bardella.
09:25He used to work in such an assistant role,
09:27but he's not accused of anything.
09:29He's not part of this trial.
09:31But has he been caught up in this affair at all?
09:34Yeah, but I think Jordan-Bardella has managed very nicely
09:38to invent all sorts of activities afterwards.
09:41So he was very lucky to escape the scene,
09:43because at the time he was paid as a parliamentary assistant
09:46while being in Paris doing other things for the party.
09:49But then he has provided some agendas,
09:52some press work, et cetera, et cetera,
09:55to show that he was really working
09:57and that it was not a fake job.
09:59So he was very lucky to be outside of that game.
10:02And maybe he will even be more lucky
10:04if Marine Le Pen is not able to run
10:06for the next presidential election,
10:08because in that case, it will be probably him.
10:11Running for election himself.
10:13Olivier, thank you so much for that analysis.
10:16That's political analyst and research professor
10:18at Sciences Po, Olivier Costa.
10:20Thank you so much for your time on the program.