WI v. Jeffrey Dahmer (1992): Victim Tracy Edwards Testifies

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WI v. DAHMER (1992): Tracy Edwards, who escaped from Jeffrey Dahmer, takes the stand.   A new Netflix documentary "Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story" explores the gruesome story of Jeffrey Dahmer. Court TV cameras were inside the Wisconsin courtroom in 1992, where a jury was tasked to decide whether Dahmer, who pleaded guilty to the murders and dismemberment of 15 boys and men, should be sentenced to life in prison or admitted to a mental institution.    #JeffreyDahmer #documentaries #truestories     Related keywords:  How did Jeffrey Dahmer die  How old was Jeffrey Dahmer when he died  Jeffrey Dahmer movie  Where did Jeffrey Dahmer live apartment  How old was Jeffrey Dahmer when he got caught  Jeffrey Dahmer brother  Jeffrey Dahmer, father  Jeffrey Dahmer childhood  How did Jeffrey Dahmer die  How old was Jeffrey Dahmer when he died  riches v. dahmer  What was Jeffrey Dahmer charged with  Jeffrey Dahmer childhood  When was Jeffrey Dahmer caught  Is Jeffrey Dahmer still alive  Joyce Dahmer  Jeffrey Dahmer Movie Netflix  dahmer – monster the jeffrey dahmer story season 2  where to watch dahmer - monster: the jeffrey dahmer story  Monster Jeffrey Dahmer movie  Jeffrey Dahmer documentary  Monsters: The Lyle and Erik Menendez Story  Dahmer -- Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story episodes  How did Jeffrey Dahmer die  Where is Tracy Edwards now 2022  Tracy Edwards Jeffrey Dahmer now  Is Tracy Edwards alive  Where is Tracy Edwards now 2023  Did Tracy Edwards became a killer  Where is Tracy Edwards now 2024  Tracy Edwards obituary  What did Tracy Edwards do  Did Tracy Edwards became a killer

Transcript

00:00This time is for our testimony, you're about to give this matter, be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

00:07Please be seated.

00:11Sir, would you tell us your name and spell your last name for us?

00:15Tracey Edwards, E-D-W-A-R-D-S.

00:18Mr. Edwards, we're going to ask you to speak up very loudly into the microphone.

00:23I would like to know in what state do you reside at the present time?

00:27Louisiana.

00:28And how old are you, sir?

00:29Thirty-two.

00:31Thirty-two, and you are single?

00:33Yes.

00:34And you were in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on July the 22nd, 1991?

00:42Yes.

00:43And at or about that time, on that late afternoon, did you have occasion to see a person that you knew at that time or subsequently learned was a fellow by the name of Jeffrey Dahmer?

00:54Yes.

00:55And you know that Mr. Dahmer you're speaking about is a defendant in this case to my right, correct?

01:00Yes.

01:01And that, let me, I made a record, I showed the identification.

01:08Sir, would you indicate where Mr. Dahmer is seated in the courtroom?

01:13It's over there.

01:14Right in the middle between my two associates?

01:17Yeah.

01:18Is that right?

01:19That's right.

01:20The record should reflect the defendant's been identified.

01:22Now, Mr. Edwards, you and I met for the first time last evening.

01:25Yes.

01:26And you came up from Louisiana at my request with your attorney.

01:31Right.

01:32Mr. Syed, S-Y-E-D, Sylet, S-A-L-E-T.

01:35That's correct.

01:36And you came up here to testify to the events, as you recall them, that occurred on the late afternoon, early evening, early morning hours of July the 22nd and the morning of July the 23rd, 1991.

01:52That's correct.

01:53So that you know, Mr. Edwards, your name is known to the jury because there has been testimony concerning what happened to you and at the apartment of Mr. Dahmer. Do you understand?

02:04Sure.

02:05Okay?

02:06Okay.

02:07Did you know Mr. Dahmer by name prior to that date?

02:12I'd seen him a couple of times before then. I didn't know his name personally.

02:16All right. Did you ever talk to him before that date?

02:19Speaking to him, saying hello as he passed by.

02:22Just casual, friendly?

02:23Casual, yeah, friendly.

02:24Hello's?

02:25Hello's, yeah.

02:26Where was it that you saw him in the late afternoon, early morning hours of July the 22nd?

02:33Grand Avenue Mall.

02:35And that was in Milwaukee.

02:36Correct.

02:37Downtown on Wisconsin Avenue.

02:38Wisconsin, correct.

02:39Were you with somebody or were you alone?

02:41A couple of our friends, yeah.

02:43Okay, so the record is absolutely clear. You are not a homosexual, are you?

02:47No, not at all.

02:49Okay. So you were with a couple of your buddies, were you?

02:52That's correct.

02:53And what were you doing?

02:54We was drinking beer, just talking, hanging out, you know.

02:57About 6 o'clock at night was this?

02:59Yeah, about 6, 6.15, whatever.

03:02Did you have occasion then to see Mr. Dahmer?

03:05Yeah, he approached us eventually and started talking to us, yeah.

03:08Were you three black males?

03:10Yeah, one, one white, two black male.

03:13So you were friends?

03:14Yeah, my best friend was white, yeah.

03:16When he came up and started talking to you, what is it that Mr. Dahmer said to you?

03:20He said he was just in the city from Chicago.

03:24He was taking care of his sick grandmother, I believe, in West Allis.

03:28And did he have any further conversation with you and your friends?

03:31Yeah, he was just talking. He said he was a professional photographer.

03:34He usually pays people for pictures and stuff like that

03:37if anybody was interested in making money at that time.

03:40To have to pose for pictures?

03:42Yeah.

03:43Did he describe the kind of pictures that you were going to be posing for

03:46if you chose to take him up on the offer?

03:49He said nude.

03:50Nude.

03:51Right.

03:52Now, after he said that to you, what did you and your friends do?

03:55They were just talking, discussing it, you know, seeing what was going on, yeah.

03:59And what did you end up doing?

04:01Did you remain at Grand Avenue or did you go somewhere else?

04:04We proceeded from there.

04:06He said he was going to buy all those guys beer, rum, and coke, you know,

04:09watch videos or something like that.

04:11Rum and coke, did you say?

04:12Yeah, we went to the liquor store on Wisconsin Avenue, 7th and Wisconsin Avenue.

04:16So you walked from Grand Avenue down to 7th and Wisconsin?

04:20Yeah, up, so to speak.

04:22Between 5th and 6th, 7th, something like that.

04:24Okay.

04:25The general area of 6th or 7th and Wisconsin.

04:28Right.

04:29Was it going to be the three of you and Mr. Dahmer were going to stay together

04:34or was it agreed upon that one or others of you were going to go with Mr. Dahmer

04:38or was there no agreement?

04:40They were going to meet up with us eventually later on that evening.

04:44Meet up with who?

04:46Jeffrey at his apartment, but he gave them the wrong address at that time.

04:51Okay, so the three of you, you and your two friends,

04:54and Mr. Dahmer walked down to a liquor store,

04:57and what happened when you got to the liquor store?

04:59I saw my brother restart talking at this time.

05:02Jeff was talking to my other friends.

05:04So you say you saw your brother.

05:06He wasn't one of the three that you were with?

05:07No.

05:08You saw him on the street?

05:09Yeah.

05:10Okay, so you had conversation?

05:12Right.

05:13Okay, did anyone go into a liquor store and buy anything?

05:18Mr. Dahmer brought liquor.

05:20So he went into a liquor store?

05:22Right.

05:23And when he came out, who was still there?

05:26Okay, when he came out, we were all still there.

05:29And then what happened? Tell us what happened then.

05:31Okay, he was talking to them.

05:32Then we were going to go up the street.

05:34I was going to go home and change and everything at this time.

05:37So we proceeded.

05:38We caught a cab at the bus station, you know.

05:41Now what was your plan as you were in front of that liquor store

05:44after Mr. Dahmer came out with the liquor

05:47and you had been talking to your brother?

05:49What was your plan? What were you going to do?

05:51You say you were going to go home and change clothes?

05:53Yeah, and eventually I was going to go over there, you know,

05:55and maybe check out what he was talking about,

05:57about making the money at that time.

05:59So your interest was in making some money?

06:01Right.

06:02Did he tell you how much you would be paid if you did pose for him?

06:05He said $100.

06:07You had no idea, did you, that this was for any homosexual guy?

06:11No, he didn't come across like that,

06:13and he didn't even act like it at that time.

06:15Okay.

06:16So now your friends are still there,

06:19and you're going to go home and you order a cab over at the bus depot.

06:24What happens? Tell us what happens.

06:26Okay, and then me and Dahmer, my friends,

06:29say they're going to go and change and call up the girls,

06:31and we'll meet up later on, you know.

06:33Was there an address given as to where you were going?

06:36He gave them some address that wasn't correct.

06:38You later found that out?

06:39Right from my friends, yeah.

06:41What happened then?

06:42Who else remained there when this was all transpired?

06:45Just you and Mr. Dahmer, or you, Mr. Dahmer, and others?

06:48After it all had transpired, it was me and Mr. Dahmer in the cab, you know, leaving.

06:52You met up at about quarter of 6, 6 o'clock, 6.15.

06:55What time is it now, at this time?

06:58It's maybe 6.30 as we get to 26th and Wisconsin.

07:03So you stop at 26th and Wisconsin, and what happens there?

07:06Okay, we get out the cab then,

07:08and then he suggested he go to the store and get cigarettes before he went to his apartment.

07:13And after he did that, did you go to his apartment?

07:19Yeah.

07:20What route?

07:21Through the alleys, through the back way.

07:24Was there any discussion as to why you were taking that route?

07:28He said it was safer, people wouldn't bother us or whatever.

07:32At the time that you were walking with him towards his apartment,

07:35what was your plans on doing when you got to the apartment?

07:39Really, drinking the beer, I wasn't really sure if I was going to pose or not, you know.

07:43Yep, I wasn't really sure at that point.

07:45You at least were contemplating maybe you would.

07:47Yeah, I was going to make up my mind once I got there, whatever, you know.

07:51Were you in need of money?

07:52Yeah, I had just started working, and the offer sounded good at that time.

07:56Okay.

07:57Now, when you got to his apartment, how was he acting?

08:01Tell us about his demeanor, you know what I mean by that, Mr. Edwards?

08:09How was he acting?

08:12Just like a normal, everyday person, you know, friendly, good conversationalist.

08:17He was talking about the military, things of that nature.

08:20Had you been in the military?

08:22My father retired in the Air Force, so I've been to several different bases.

08:26I was born on an Army base in Fort Carson.

08:29And that's the kind of thing you were talking to him about?

08:31It's like a family thing, you know, so I know a lot about it.

08:34Had he been drinking alcohol?

08:36Yeah, I consumed some. He was drinking beer at the time.

08:40Well, the time that you were, like, going to his apartment, was he intoxicated?

08:45No.

08:46Had he been drinking?

08:47Yeah, I'd been drinking a couple of beers.

08:49How about you? Were you intoxicated?

08:51No, not at all.

08:52Had you had something to drink?

08:54I sipped maybe a little beer, my friend's beer, that was it.

08:58All right, now you get to the apartment.

09:00Do you go in the back way?

09:02Yes, correct.

09:04You went up to the apartment.

09:06Tell us what happens when you get up to the apartment.

09:09Tell us what you observed, what your senses told you.

09:12Okay, first of all, it seemed like a normal apartment.

09:16When we got inside, he turned off burglar alarms.

09:18I asked him why. First, it was a foul odor, okay?

09:21Tell us about that. What kind of an odor?

09:23It was just like an odor. I didn't quite know what it was.

09:26He told me a sewer pipe had broke and management would take care of it.

09:30And did you accept that?

09:32Yes, because I worked around at construction companies before,

09:35and when pipes bust, sewer pipes bust, they smell.

09:38So I brought that.

09:40So you say the first thing he did was notice the odor.

09:43He opened the door to the apartment?

09:46Yes.

09:47And you walked in?

09:48Yes.

09:49He turned off something. What did he turn off?

09:51Alarms.

09:53Did you ask him about that?

09:54Yeah, and he said the part of the neighborhood he was in,

09:57he was protecting his property, things like that, cameras, VCRs, TVs, things of that nature.

10:03Did you accept that?

10:04Yes, I did.

10:06After getting in the apartment, can you generally describe the apartment,

10:10both the apartment that you saw then and the other parts of the apartment you saw?

10:15Tell the jury what the apartment was like.

10:19It was like a normal, pretty decent apartment.

10:22It had nice things in it.

10:24It had certain boxes sitting on the front, merodic acid boxes.

10:27I asked him about it.

10:28He said he cleaned bricks with those, which you can use that type of acid to clean bricks.

10:33So I brought that also.

10:35I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said.

10:37You asked him about some boxes?

10:39Yeah, that were laying in the front living room floor.

10:42And what did he tell you about those?

10:43That he cleaned brick with the merodic acid.

10:46Okay.

10:47Now, was the apartment small, large, medium?

10:50Give us the size.

10:51Kind of medium size, yeah.

10:53Now, when you went in there, you went in, as you entered, were you in the living room?

10:59Yes.

11:00And what was the living room?

11:01What did you see in there?

11:03The boxes you told us about.

11:04The boxes, there's a couch, there's a fish tank there also, a black lamp.

11:10There was a little table-like on the left side.

11:14Could you see a refrigerator?

11:16Yeah, I could see the refrigerator on my left.

11:18Was it close to the living room?

11:20Yeah, maybe eight feet from the living room.

11:24So it was just off the living room.

11:25Right.

11:26Now, did you stay in that room, or did you go to another room right away?

11:30We stayed in that room for a while.

11:32And where did you sit, if you did?

11:34Okay, at the end of the sofa, like I am now, this is the sofa, I was at this end, and he was at this side.

11:40Referring to the jury, I mean, the witness box, if that were a sofa, he would be at that end,

11:44that is the end where he's seated on the witness stand, which would be the part closest to the judge.

11:49Is that right?

11:50That's correct.

11:51And where did Mr. Dahmer, what did he do?

11:53He sat like here, maybe a couple feet from me.

11:56Not close to you?

11:57Maybe two feet.

11:59Were you in fear of anything at that time?

12:01Not at all.

12:02Okay, and what did the two of you do?

12:04Okay, he said we were still talking, chatting, you know,

12:07he asked me was I interested in doing the photography, you know, I told him I was still contemplating,

12:13so therefore he offered me a beer and a rum and coke mixture at that point.

12:18Now, you're fully clothed.

12:21Yes.

12:22Okay, and you're sitting on a couch.

12:24Right.

12:25And he offers, he talks to you about this posing, you weren't sure you were going to do it.

12:31Right.

12:32How much had you been offered to do the posing?

12:34$100.

12:35Okay, and when he brings you the beer, he brings you rum and coke?

12:39Yeah, he brings the beer first, and then he brings the rum and coke.

12:43How big of a glass?

12:45Maybe that big.

12:46About four inches high?

12:47About four inches, yeah, three and a half, something like that.

12:50Did you ever taste it?

12:51Yeah, I took a few sips.

12:53Was it strong, weak, medium, or just about right?

12:56I'm not a big liquor drinker, so it didn't taste that good to me.

12:59Didn't taste good to you?

13:01You don't know if it was strong or not?

13:02Strong or not, no.

13:04What did Mr. Dahmer do?

13:05Did he likewise have a drink?

13:07I think, yeah, right, a beer, but I don't think he drank all of his drink at that time.

13:13Did he have any rum with him?

13:19I just noticed the beer.

13:21What time are we talking about now that you're sitting on the couch and you get the beer?

13:25You got over there about what time, and how long after this?

13:28It was about before seven, quarter to seven, something like that.

13:32So you're sitting on the couch, he brings you a beer and rum and coke, what happens?

13:36Okay, then we just started talking and everything, you know.

13:38General talk?

13:39General talk.

13:40What happens?

13:41Yeah, then I was just, I don't know, getting a little agitated maybe, you know, because of the smell and things.

13:45And then he threw my conversation off, talking about the fish in the fish tank, you know.

13:50Okay, when you start talking about the fish in the fish tank, do you bring that up or does he?

13:54He does.

13:55And what do you do when he does that?

13:57I turn to the right, like the fish tank is here, I'm turning all the way over here.

14:02You turn to your right to look at it?

14:04To look at the fish tank, right.

14:05And when that happens, what happens to you?

14:07All of a sudden a handcuff and a knife is pulled on me.

14:10Handcuff is placed on your body? Where?

14:14On my left wrist.

14:16And you see a knife?

14:17Yeah, the knife, yeah.

14:19Now, at that moment, what do you do?

14:25First I feel fear, then I ask him what's going on, you know.

14:28This is not necessary, you know, to pull a knife on me at that point.

14:32Are you afraid?

14:33Yes.

14:34Do you have any reason to know why he did that?

14:37None whatsoever.

14:38Did you have any idea at that time it was going to happen?

14:41No.

14:42Tell me about his demeanor at that time when you looked and realized he had a knife and you in a cuff.

14:48What was, you were only cuffed on one wrist.

14:51One wrist, yeah.

14:52What was happening to the other part of the handcuff?

14:55Okay, he had it in his hand.

14:57He was holding it?

14:58Holding that in the wrist, yeah.

14:59Where was the knife? In the other hand?

15:01The knife was like, yeah, here. The knife was in his hand. He had it on me like this.

15:05Let the record reflect he was holding the knife in his right hand as he showed it, holding the cuff in his left hand. Is that right?

15:12Right.

15:13And your left hand is cuffed?

15:15Yeah, right.

15:16Where did he have the knife? What kind of a knife was it?

15:18It was like a military knife, a machete of some type. He had it right up under my ribcage.

15:24So he had it?

15:25Somewhere in the back here.

15:26He had it pointed at your ribcage?

15:27Yeah.

15:28Did you feel it?

15:29Yeah, he had it on me. He had it against my body.

15:32What was going through your mind the moment that happened when you realized he had a knife at your side and a handcuff on your hand?

15:39What did you think?

15:41I think like, you know, what's going on?

15:43This guy is so nice and all of a sudden, you know, it's like he's pulling knives and handcuffs and all on me, you know.

15:49What'd you do? What'd you say to him?

15:51I asked him what the problem was, you know, that it's not necessary to do this, you know.

15:55What'd he say?

15:56He told me at that point if I wouldn't do what he said, he would kill me, yeah.

15:59Now, tell us about his demeanor at the time that you look at him and you say, what's going on? You don't have to do this.

16:07What happens to Mr. Dahmer? What's he like?

16:10He's like not the same person that we met at Grand Avenue Mall.

16:14How is he different?

16:15His face structure seemed different, you know. His body structure is like it wasn't him anymore, you know.

16:22It's like it was a totally different guy there.

16:24So he told you if you didn't do what he told you to do, he'd hurt you.

16:27He'd hurt me.

16:28What'd you do? What happened? Tell us what happened step by step as best you can remember.

16:33And then all of a sudden, he kind of calms down, you know. And then he said he has the key in the bedroom, so we proceed to the bedroom.

16:39The key to the handcuffs?

16:40Right.

16:41So you believed he was going to take them off?

16:43Yeah. At that point, I had to go along with this guy, you know.

16:46And then if I had to find out, so I walked back there with him. He kind of guides me back there, you know.

16:51Guides you back with the cuff and the knife?

16:53Yeah, right.

16:54And you go into the bedroom?

16:55Right.

16:56What do you see in the bedroom?

16:58A big, about 50, 60 gallon drum barrel, whatever.

17:03Did you ever see a 50, 60 drum barrel in anybody's bedroom before?

17:08Not at all.

17:09Do you have any idea? Did you ask him what it was?

17:11No. At that point, I asked no questions at that time.

17:14Was there a bed in that room?

17:16Yes.

17:17How was the bed? Was it made, unmade?

17:19It was unmade.

17:21What did you see on the bed, if anything?

17:23Something like a stain of whatever on the bed.

17:26What'd you think it was?

17:29At that point in time, I wasn't sure.

17:32What did you do when you got in the bedroom as he's holding on to the cuff and the knife? What did you do?

17:37Studied us talking, trying to be friends with him.

17:40Did you remain standing? Did you sit down?

17:42He made me sit down at that point. We both sit on the bed.

17:45Was it at the foot of the bed, side of the bed, head of the bed?

17:49Maybe halfway between.

17:51Did that room have a TV set in it?

17:54Yes.

17:55Was there anything going on on the TV?

17:57Yeah, the Exorcist movies was playing at that time.

18:00There was an Exorcist movie on?

18:02Yeah.

18:03Do you know which one of them?

18:04The name, I'm not sure. I think it's three. I'm not sure which one.

18:08There was a movie. Did you know it to be part of television or VCR?

18:13VCR, normally that's not on regular television, so I thought it was VCR.

18:17You knew there was a movie showing?

18:19Right.

18:20Did you see him put it on, or was it on?

18:22No. When we first got into the apartment, he went to the back bedroom. Maybe he put it on then. I'm not sure.

18:28Then what happened? You're both sitting on the bed?

18:30Yes.

18:31Are you still in handcuffs?

18:33Yes.

18:34Is he holding the handcuff?

18:35Right.

18:36Do you still have the knife?

18:37Right.

18:38Is it pointed at your side, as you've told us before?

18:40Right.

18:41Are you trying to be cool?

18:42Very much so.

18:44You're not fighting with him?

18:45No.

18:46What's your intention? What are you planning on doing?

18:49Getting away. I was contemplating on, at a point, jumping out the window.

18:54I was basically talking with this person, trying to let him know I was his friend.

18:59As you were sitting there, on the bed, when he had you by the handcuff, and a knife at your side, at that time, which would have been maybe 7 o'clock?

19:13Something like that.

19:14What impression was made upon your mind, by the conduct, action, manner, expression, and conversation that you observed of Mr. Dahmer?

19:28His frame of mind is what you want to know, right?

19:31At times, he would go through different changes with me.

19:35Tell us about that.

19:37One minute, he's nice. Then he was telling he didn't want people to leave him or abandon him. Things of this nature.

19:45What did you think about him as a person? What impression was made on your mind of this fellow that you're dealing with here?

19:52At times, he wasn't himself. At times, he was like a nice guy. He would come and go at different times.

20:00Throughout the whole time, he would sit, being quiet at times, watching a movie, wanting me to watch the movie.

20:07Just doing little chanting sounds.

20:10Did you observe him watching the movie and how he would react to the movie?

20:14Right. He would start rocking back and forth in certain parts of the movie.

20:20What did he say?

20:21He was like chanting at certain times and rocking back and forth.

20:25Tell us about his chanting. What was that all about?

20:27I'm not even sure, sir, but it was just like, I can't tell you the words. I couldn't understand what he was saying at that time.

20:34Can you mimic him? How it sounded?

20:37It was like a slow slur, like mmm, something of that nature. Something close like that, I'm not sure.

20:42Did it keep on for a period of time?

20:44Off and on throughout the ordeal.

20:46And how about the movement back and forth? How was that being effectuated?

20:51Just like back and forth, he would do it every now and then.

20:55Just as you are rocking in your chair?

20:57Right, like this.

20:58And chanting?

20:59And chanting.

21:00Was there any parts of the movie that was going on that you saw that he said anything about?

21:06It was like the part about the preacher that used to be a preacher that had got possessed.

21:13And that it would seem like he was interested in that part.

21:21That part had his attention more than anything.

21:24Tell us about what you mean by that.

21:26What impressions were made upon your mind when this was going on as to had his attention?

21:32How did he appear to you?

21:34It appeared like it was like he wanted to mimic it or be like that part, you know, being demonized or whatever in that nature.

21:43I'm sorry, I missed you.

21:44Yeah, like he wanted, that type of movie, that part, certain parts of that part interested him, you know.

21:51It was like he changed with it at times.

21:53Then he would get more aggressive, try to get me to handcuff myself, both hands.

21:57He's told me it made him feel more dominant.

22:01Okay, did you and he move off of the bed at any time?

22:05Yes, he wanted me to lay flat down, stomach down on the floor at that time.

22:10Did you at any time go to the bathroom, use the washroom prior to the time that he asked you to lay down on the floor?

22:16No.

22:17All right, tell us what happened when, how did that happen that he told you to lay down on the floor?

22:21He told me to lay down face down, put both of my hands behind my back.

22:25He changed again at that point, like he got more aggressive at that time.

22:30Okay, now but tell us, did he still have the knife out?

22:34Yes, he still had the knife out.

22:36And what did you do?

22:37I kind of like laid on my sides for some reason.

22:40I guess God told me not to lay flat down or let this person handcuff me, so I didn't.

22:45So you were trying to stop that from happening, but you got down on the floor.

22:48Right.

22:49What did he do?

22:50He kind of laid across me, put his head across my chest at that point.

22:54And what was he doing with his head?

22:56Pardon me?

22:57What did it appear to you he was doing with his head?

23:00What was he trying to do?

23:01Like he was listening to my heart, because at a point he told me he was going to eat my heart at that point.

23:06He said he was going to eat your heart?

23:07Yes, that's correct.

23:09Did he still have the knife?

23:11Yeah.

23:12Where was the knife pointed?

23:15When I was on the floor, he had it pointed at my groin area at that time.

23:19One knife?

23:21He had several, and then he slipped one.

23:24I managed to slide one underneath the bed.

23:27I guess during the point of time during our ordeal, he didn't know where the knife was,

23:31so I didn't know if he felt that was a threat or not.

23:34So he still had a knife, you're on the floor.

23:36How long does he lay on top of you trying to hear your heart as you've described it?

23:41Maybe a minute, minute and a half.

23:44Then what did you do then?

23:46I knew something was about to happen, so I suggested that I go to the bathroom.

23:50I had to use the bathroom at that time.

23:52What did he do?

23:53He kind of guided me to the bathroom.

23:55So when you say guided, you still had hold of your handcuff?

23:57Yes.

23:58And you went to the bathroom?

23:59Right.

24:00Did you urinate?

24:01Yeah.

24:02Were you able to utilize your own zipper, or did he touch you at all?

24:06Touched me in no way.

24:08Didn't attempt to look, he just held me in back.

24:11So in other words, he didn't try to look at what your penis looked like or anything like that?

24:15Not at all.

24:16So after urinating, did you think that you were going to be the victim of,

24:20did he ask to engage in any homosexual acts with you?

24:23None whatsoever.

24:24Okay, so now you leave the bathroom and what happens?

24:27Okay, then we go back into the bedroom.

24:31It was like different timespans.

24:33We were talking about him losing his job.

24:35Then he would come to the person that I was first with, you know,

24:39and then at certain points he would change.

24:41At first he was talking, telling me about how people didn't care for him

24:45because of this nature, and I was trying to comfort him,

24:47letting him know that I was a friend, you know,

24:49that I wasn't going to try to run away from him or nothing like that.

24:52You were being cool.

24:54I guess God, you can say that, because I had no control.

24:57I was just, it was just, I don't know.

25:00Did this continue on for a long period of time during the night?

25:04Yes, apparently so.

25:05Time seemed to, I don't know.

25:07But I stayed in there that long, so it had to be going on throughout the whole ordeal,

25:11which it was, so time just, it happened like that.

25:14And all this time you're trying to hold him down.

25:16Yes, at certain points, right.

25:18How often would he go in and out of these moods?

25:21Sir, the time spans I couldn't really tell you,

25:25but like he would like, I guess if you want to put it together in time,

25:30every 30 minutes, 20 minutes, something like that, you know,

25:33and then he would have moods of being just silent, you know,

25:37and I wouldn't say anything, try to provoke him or say the wrong thing.

25:40I would be silent with him.

25:43So you just let him be alone.

25:45Was that movie on the whole time, a long time?

25:48It was on a pretty good period of time, yeah.

25:51And when it went off, I couldn't tell you.

25:53Did he continue to chant from time to time?

25:56Yes, it happened several times throughout the ordeal.

25:59Now, when he would watch the movie,

26:01did you notice when he would go into this thing that you told us

26:06where he would really become fixed on the movie screen?

26:10How often would that happen?

26:12Throughout the movie, maybe every 15 or 20 minutes,

26:15and then he would turn around and try to ask me

26:18to put both of my hands behind my back, and I wouldn't, you know, do it.

26:21I would talk to him. I'd tell him, you can trust me, you know,

26:24you don't have to do this, and that would calm him down a little bit.

26:27He had the knife the whole time.

26:29Right.

26:30He's watching the movie and he becomes very interested in the movie.

26:33Right.

26:34You don't do anything, just sit there.

26:35Just sit there and be quiet.

26:36And then he would start conversation with you again.

26:38Yeah, he would say, like, you're going to have to do this and that, you know.

26:41Then he told me at a point I was going to have to kill him,

26:44or either he was going to have to kill me at one point.

26:47Were you and he drinking during this time?

26:49No.

26:50So he wasn't running out, bringing you out and getting beers and coming back?

26:53No, I would have been out the window at that point.

26:55Sure.

26:56If he would have.

26:57Did he, when he was fixed, I'm trying to get some words to understand,

27:02was he intoxicated?

27:04He had been drinking, but as far as being intoxicated,

27:07he was not staggering or anything of that nature.

27:10But you know that some people, when they have too much to drink,

27:13change their moods.

27:14Was that the kind of mood changes he was having,

27:16or a different kind of mood change?

27:17No, I think this was like more of an inner mood change

27:19than an alcoholic mood change.

27:21What kind of mood?

27:22It's like.

27:23Inner mood?

27:24Yeah, a person change, not alcohol change.

27:27What did you think about this guy?

27:29What was going through your mind as you were watching the movie?

27:32What was going through your mind as to who you were sitting next to

27:36who was doing all these things?

27:38A bizarre individual.

27:40Someone that was very confused at this time.

27:45Now there came a time when you went to the washroom again?

27:48Right, I suggested, yeah, because he had started getting aggressive a little bit again.

27:52I suggested to go to the bathroom.

27:54He let me stay in there by myself while he stayed outside the door at that time.

27:57And what happened then?

27:59And then I tell him, well, I was contemplating, I was asking God,

28:02shall I make my move now?

28:04And I was going to just jump out the window.

28:06But when I got out, for some reason I asked, could I have another beer?

28:10Yeah.

28:11And what did he do?

28:12And he reaches over, he guides me over and reaches in and get a beer.

28:16He still got you on the cuff.

28:18Yeah, and then he tells me, I told him I want to sit in the front

28:21because it's the air conditioning.

28:23I was just going to try to jump out the window or go for the door or whatever

28:26because the back bedroom didn't have an air conditioner, only in the front.

28:30So I suggested we sit on the couch.

28:32I had to unbutton my shirt to try to make him feel more at ease.

28:36And then I just sat on the couch like, and he just started going out of himself again.

28:45Going out of himself?

28:46Yeah, he was like paying me no attention at that time.

28:49Like he wasn't there?

28:50Yeah, he started the chanting again and just like just sitting there, you know.

28:54And just for some reason I said, well, I need to go to the bathroom again,

28:57and he didn't follow me at that point.

29:00So I reached up, I got up, and then I got to hit him and I ran out.

29:04So you hit him?

29:05Right.

29:06Did you have any other belongings there?

29:08I have my bag right there at the end of the couch.

29:10I sit in exactly the same place that I sit when I went in there.

29:13So when you got up, he let go of your cuff to let you go to the bathroom again?

29:17He didn't even, he just like, just let me stay there.

29:20I was going to go for the window.

29:21At that point he didn't even have the cuff.

29:23I wasn't even there anymore.

29:25And when you saw that, what did you do?

29:27I just seized the opportunity.

29:29I said, well, at least I'm going to die trying.

29:31I'm not just going to sit here, you know.

29:33What did you do, son?

29:34I hit him and I ran towards the door and he like was right there,

29:38tried to grab me, get me back in there.

29:41And what happened?

29:43Then I made it outside.

29:44So he wasn't able to bring you back in?

29:46Bring me back in there, no.

29:47He tried?

29:48He tried.

29:49When you left that apartment, as you got away from him,

29:53I'm going to ask you again,

29:55what impressions were made on your mind by the conduct of Jeffrey Dahmer,

30:01by the actions of Jeffrey Dahmer,

30:04by the manner, expressions, and conversations of Jeffrey Dahmer that you observed?

30:09Can you give us some words?

30:11It was like I told the policeman that this freak, this crazy guy was trying to hurt me.

30:18Did you run out of the building?

30:20Yes, I did.

30:21Did you summon help?

30:22Yes.

30:23Milwaukee Police Department?

30:24That's correct.

30:25Did they come back there with you to the apartment?

30:28Right.

30:29Did you eventually go back into the apartment with the Milwaukee Police officers?

30:33Yes.

30:34And then he was arrested?

30:36Right.

30:37You gave a statement to the Milwaukee Police a few hours later?

30:40Yeah, I guess you could say a few hours, yeah.

30:48Mr. Edwards,

31:17through your lawyer, I had you come to Wisconsin to testify?

31:23That's correct.

31:24Other than your expenses, you're not being paid anything, correct?

31:27No.

31:28Is that true?

31:29That's true.

31:35Thank you, Mr. Edwards.

31:39Mr. McCann, how long do we anticipate the cross-examination of this witness?

31:43I'd say at least half an hour, Your Honor.

31:45That being the case, I think it's appropriate that we take a recess at this time.

31:48About 15 minutes.

31:49Court's in recess.

31:51All rise, please.

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