Our Stories - An Interview With Gaye Newman Lisby - Episode 203 Branham Research Podcast - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/branham   Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast   Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K  John invites Gay Lisby to discuss growing up in the Branham cult. The discussion focuses on the emotional and spiritual damage caused by William Branham’s teachings. Gay shares how her father became involved with the cult and how the environment was marked by anger, fear, and confusion. They recall how Branham’s manipulation tactics, such as rigging faith healing events, deceived people into believing in his divine powers. The conversation touches on the pain experienced by women in the cult, especially when Branham compared them to animals, which led Gay to struggle with her self-worth for many years. John adds his own experiences growing up in the cult and notes how Branham’s followers were indoctrinated with teachings that had little to do with the true message of Christianity.  As they continue, the pair explore the financial corruption within the organization, discussing how donations were funneled into the Jehovah-Jireh Foundation, enriching Branham’s family while keeping followers in ignorance. John highlights the repeated failures of Branham’s doomsday prophecies, particularly the prediction of the rapture in 1977, which left followers disillusioned. Gay credits her mother for realizing early on that the cult was a harmful environment and taking steps to protect part of the family. Both John and Gay express deep gratitude for the research and revelations that have helped them leave the cult and restore their faith in Christianity. They conclude by encouraging listeners who are still trapped in the cult to seek the truth and find freedom from the lies.  00:00 Introduction 05:03 Discovering Deception in Branham’s Healing Ministry 10:14 Personal Experiences Growing Up in the Cult 15:09 The Emotional Toll on Women in the Cult 20:24 Branham’s Failed Prophecies and Financial Corruption 25:47 Leaving the Cult and Finding True Christianity 30:15 Hypnosis and Manipulation Techniques in Branham’s Sermons 35:19 Questioning the Lies and Facing the Truth 40:06 Financial Fraud and the Jehovah-Jireh Foundation 45:32 Reflecting on Family Members Still in the Cult 50:13 Conclusion and Message of Hope for Cult Survivors ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00You

00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research

00:35podcast. I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham

00:40historical research at william-branham.org and with me I have my very

00:45special guest Gay Lisby who spent part of her childhood in the Branham cult. And

00:50Gay it's very good to have you on today. We've we've been exchanging emails and

00:55phone calls and discussing some unusual connections to the message that you have

01:00and they're in areas that I've been digging. I don't know how much I'll say

01:04beyond that but anyway it's good to have you on here so that you could tell a

01:08little bit about your story and what it was like growing up in the Branham cult.

01:13First of all I want to thank you for what you're doing. I accidentally ran

01:18across your information via my baby brother who was looking up something on

01:25YouTube or something like that and he came across your old channel the one

01:29that ended up getting hacked and and whatever happened to it. I'm sorry about

01:37that because I know the motivation behind it was certainly not godly. So I

01:47listened to your video that shocked me at that time because even I had grown up

01:56for a good segment of my my childhood in you know what I'm referring now to the

02:05Branhamite. Me and my baby brother referred to it as that Branhamite

02:10business. And most recently my dad referred to it as that mess. He called it

02:20that mess. But I saw that video and something in that video just rang

02:30so hard with me because you had mentioned about how they had edited

02:39those films of Branham and how I saw the the bit about the prayer cards and how

02:50the prayer cards had the person's name and their address, a place for their

02:55address and a place for their infirmity to be listed. And in my mind as I had

03:02gone on and away from the Branhamite business I had still held in high regard

03:10William Branham himself by saying in my mind yeah he just probably got off

03:20toward the end and some of those teachings but he was a good man. And so

03:28when I saw those things and began to piece those things together and then

03:35find a lot more of your research and Charles Paisley's research I realized I

03:43still had some of those cultish threads. Does that make sense?

03:51Yeah. You know I've had several people in fact I was talking to this one guy that

03:57he was I believe he was a music minister in a respected church around here. He had

04:03been out for years and he was still kind of plagued by it. You know he'd moved

04:09beyond the message. He realized that he had studied the Bible so he knew the

04:13difference between the Bible and what William Branham taught. But there were

04:16things like you're mentioning the prayer the faith healing lines etc. He was also

04:21unaware that that William Branham had the people write down exactly what he

04:26was guessing on the platform. And for me whenever I realized that you know that's

04:31it that's a gimmick that's just a that's a trick and it's what a fraudster would

04:35do. And when I realized that it was fraud I started digging for evidence of the

04:39fraud and I began publishing it. And like you said I had this fabulous original

04:45website and this YouTube site. I got I was under all kinds of attacks. They

04:52launched a copyright strike attack and brought the first one down. They've

04:58actually brought down two or three of my video sites and they've tried to attack

05:01the new one. But what they're trying to do is limit the exposure that can be

05:07achieved by this. So what happens is it it grows so big and then they bring the

05:11site down and then I have to grow a new one. And it's this never-ending game of whack-a-mole.

05:16Well I commend you. I commend you on doing it and persevering in that. And as you were

05:23describing what those who are you know wanting to hide this information when

05:33you're describing what these people are doing it's exactly the opposite of what

05:37somebody would be doing with the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus

05:42Christ we want to spread it everywhere. We're not trying to take things down and

05:47limit it and and not let somebody know this or that or the other about our

05:53Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But these people are hiding his KKK affiliations

06:02and backgrounds and beliefs and these people are editing out so much of what

06:11we know today is abhorrent to Christianity to true Christianity. Why?

06:18Because it's not true Christianity. Yeah. It's some people call it the message but

06:26like I said most recently my dad's been calling it that mess. Yeah I've used that

06:32term myself because how else do you describe it? It is it is a mess and you

06:37know the Klan it's just one small aspect of this. There's so many different threads

06:42of research that I've gone down and these aren't good threads of research.

06:46It's not you know it's not on the up-and-up. For me if there if there was

06:51any credibility to it there would not be a need to suppress the information from

06:56getting out and so you know there's something else going on the bottom line

07:01and like you said it's not the gospel. Right. So I wasn't raised in this from

07:10the get-go like you. I mean you were like born and bred into it from the get-go

07:15and and my coming into this was a little different but it came through my

07:23dad and some point when I was a kindergarten or something like that you

07:30know they got my dad convinced my mom to move from St. Louis to Alton, Missouri

07:36no sorry Thayer, Missouri at that time which my mom many years later called the

07:42end of the jumping-off place because that I guess is where you go to die

07:47because nobody nobody in their right mind should be from there. Anyways we end

07:54up there and as years go on I realize we end up there because my uncle my dad's

08:02brother had gotten him into this Branhamite belief system and for me what

08:12it constituted at the time as I'm a small child growing up was you go into

08:18Evening Light Tabernacle in Thayer, Missouri and my dad played the piano my

08:28dad kept the books for the church you know that was a bookkeeper and he worked

08:33for the owner of the church so that was convenient so I guess that's why we had

08:40to go there I'm not sure so we would all file in there's six of us kids you

08:46know and mom on one end dad on the other end dad go up and play the piano we'd

08:50sing some songs and then Paul the owner of the church would get up and put on a

09:02tape so we would listen to a tape as a small child and I remember thinking of

09:10ways to even take toothpicks sneak toothpicks in and keep my eyes open so

09:18it appeared that I was awake but I could still be asleep because I don't know

09:23from one end to the other what this man is saying in this garbled up sort of

09:31stuff and and we would always leave my dad would be angry just so angry it like

09:43a I look back now on it and it was just almost demonic is a it's just the way to

09:49say it I mean he would be so angry and it's the opposite of what you think you

09:56should be when you're leaving church and I remember thinking even as a kid as

10:06I was growing that this it didn't feel it wasn't nice it wasn't like Jesus yeah

10:15but I knew what Jesus was like John because my mother was like Jesus you

10:22know I always say I learned the character and nature of the devil from

10:25my father and the character and nature of God from my mother she was a true

10:30believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and had been raised in st. Louis after some

10:38of the st. Louis revivals you know tent revivals you know you're talking about

10:44putting the toothpicks in your eye I've had the same exact thought myself and

10:49when we escaped I after years I was talking to my sons about it I have one

10:55son who is really old enough to remember pretty much everything he

10:58listened to every sermon and he's very attentive so he understood many things

11:03my middle son I think he he barely remembers it but it was just that guy

11:08that sounded like Adolf Hitler to him and that's about about the extent of it

11:13but one of the things that I've came to realize over time is that and it's not

11:19just William Branham there are other ministers in the message who do this

11:22there is a hypnotic technique where if you can confuse the person's mind and

11:28get them into a state of confusion and then scream with authority you can

11:33hijack their minds and this is a you can go you can read hypnotic techniques on

11:38the internet you can find this an exercise that I tell people when they're

11:43thinking about leaving the message is to just get a transcript of one of the

11:47sermons of the ministers and try to read it and you'll find that it's not a

11:52simple cohesive thought when they're talking it's like spaghetti they're

11:56talking down one path and they bring in this other detail and this other story

12:01and by the end of it you really don't even know what the person has said when

12:05you read it and the the irony of this is I've sat through these meetings you

12:11think you do understand it you've convinced yourself that you understand

12:14this thing and they're not speaking in a in any cohesive thought and if an

12:20outsider were to come in and listen to if they would think what in the world

12:23are these people listening to they would be thinking that you you have said a

12:32whole bunch of words none of it has made a difference or made sense it doesn't

12:38hang together and for me it always felt like it was so angry so angry and John

12:53here's the thing that was so damaging to me as a as a woman as a young girl

13:01listening to this and as a young girl you're you're as a young kid you know

13:09you're you listen and you try to understand parts you can understand does

13:15that make sense so like a kid you know can understand what a hog is if you

13:20grew up on a farm you know I understand what a hog is we had hogs and I

13:29understood that in one of his sermons that I'll never forget he likened women

13:38to hogs no better than hogs and dogs and that went really deep in me because

13:52here's this is supposed to be held up to be someone God has been using for signs

14:00and wonders and miracles and revelations and the revelation is I'm a hog I'm

14:07nothing better than a it was devastating to my ability to see myself in with any

14:23sense of value which put me on a course for a lot of you know devaluing years of

14:32my life for what reason you know the sermon you're referring to my

14:37grandfather used to play it multiple times a year I know is at least once a

14:42year I think it was probably two or three times a year and he would always

14:45preface it with the statement that this is divine revelation this is one of the

14:49there were there are a few a handful of things that he claimed that William

14:54Branham came to restore to the church of the last day and this sermon about the

14:59women being lower than a dog or a hog that was one of these quote-unquote

15:04divine revelations and for the women I can't even imagine how devastating that

15:09would be but for the for the boys who are growing up under this they're being

15:13trained to denigrate women and they're being trained to insult them and you

15:19know looking up I was the same way I was indoctrinated the same way I look back

15:24at the way that I would poke insults at my wife for instance whenever we were

15:29first early married in a joking manner you know it's not like I was insulting

15:34her but instead of lifting her up it was putting her down and we weren't trained

15:39in the way that men should be and it's something that even after leaving the

15:43cults many men struggle with because they have this they have such a wrong

15:48view of how women should be treated and that was one of the divine mysteries

15:52that was allegedly brought by revelation to the last days and I look back and

15:57maybe it was a revelation but it didn't come from the from the good side let me

16:02just say that revelation is a demonic revelation because the scripture is so

16:09clear when Jesus he likened us Christians to the bride and then he says

16:22to through Paul husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church Christ

16:31never loved the church like a hog right I mean it's truly devastating garbage

16:39but I think I have to pause here a moment and give some credit to the Holy

16:51Spirit working in my mother she had had great training in in the Lord and in the

16:59scriptures before she married my father and certainly before we got into that

17:05mess as as he refers to it now and there was a moment in time when we're going

17:13now we're all having a herd down there to that church and sit there on the seat

17:17and listen to those tapes and and my mom we left us to very quiet very

17:25reserved very shy lady and she said I'm not going back there anymore that's a

17:37cult now this was back in 1974 73 74 and if you remember correctly we were

17:48waiting for the rapture in 1977 so everything's geared to 1977 I mean we

17:57all know the brand of my whole thing knew that that was the date is 1977 that

18:04was that was the date has been marked out and so everybody was preaching

18:08toward 1977 now she's not 1973 74 and she's like this is a cult and she took

18:16my baby brother and my two small sisters and she never went back but us three

18:22older kids had to go with my dad and so I was there from the time I was very

18:29small like I said probably about you know five six seven years old until I

18:33went to college at age 17 and that's when I escaped and boy was it a glorious

18:40escape and for the listeners who are unaware this was one of William Branham's

18:46there were several of these there wasn't just one but his most famous doomsday

18:51year that he predicted was 1977 and he always would preface it now I I don't

18:59prophesy this I instead predict it and to anybody who is outside of the cult

19:05that's ridiculous because if you're a prophet and you're divinely inspired

19:09saying things your prediction is a prophecy but the cult draws this

19:14dividing line because he tried to talk out of both sides of his mouth he and in

19:19fact in his book of the the things the Church Age book he says I tell you by

19:24inspiration that 1977 is the year but I don't prophesy it well what what is

19:31divine revelation right and so to an outsider they realize that this is

19:36nothing more than doublespeak but to people who were in it leading up to 1977

19:41this was a big deal they were you can go back through the newspapers and you can

19:46find entire groups of people like there were people who there were churches in

19:50California that migrated all the way to Louisiana because in the last day's

19:55scenario that was happening in 1977 the Los Angeles was supposed to sink the

20:00tidal waves would come so they prepared for the end and there were others that

20:05it was kind of sad and ridiculous but there were people who sold everything

20:09that they had because they're not going to need it after 1977 and mentally that

20:14was their way of preparing for the end if I sell everything I have I'm not

20:18beholden to this world well in 1978 they wished that they had everything

20:22that they sold this was a big deal and though the cult tries to erase it it was

20:28part of the cult history what I think that struck me during those years were

20:35how we lived for that 1977 prediction and as you already said was 1977 I'm a

20:47sophomore in high school 1978 came and I'm a junior in high school and I'm

20:55still here and the rapture hasn't happened and 1979 comes well I think for

21:03me the blessing was that the bloom kind of was off the rose a little bit with my

21:10dad because of that failed prophecy he's questioning you know is this really

21:20real is this really you know and and and one day he came in from work and he

21:28worked for one of Billy Paul Branham's quote-unquote best friends that's how

21:39they referred to themselves and and so my dad worked for them and was under

21:47that thumb and in many ways but he came home one day and he threw into my lap

21:53these brochures about a little college in Branson Missouri called College of

22:00the Ozarks now I'm had me and me and my brother Keith we're heading to graduate

22:06and and never had a thought that I could go to college because hogs don't go to

22:14college you know we're not much of nothing hogs and dogs you know I'll

22:22never forget he threw that in my lap and he said I found out about this college

22:28and you and Keith might want to go there and I look back on it now and I

22:34see that it was his pitiful weak effort to get us out to something perhaps

22:45better and a way because he really was questioning is this thing real is this

22:53the truth is this what is all of this that I've gotten into and I just praise

23:00the Lord for that because we were blessed to go to College of the Ozarks

23:06which is a Christian based college two weeks after I arrived at College of the

23:11Ozarks around the corner in my dormitory and there was a gal standing there that

23:16kind of looks like me you know got the Pentecostal garb on you know and she

23:21goes do you have a church and I said no and she goes meet me at the at the

23:27parking lot at us at 630 Wednesday and a Tuesday night at youth service and

23:34we'll go to church and John the Lord blessed me because we landed in a church

23:43that preached the scriptures and I had never heard those before like like in

23:57the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and

24:01the same was in the beginning with God all these glorious scriptures just he

24:10just preached the scriptures he preached Jesus he preached that six

24:17weeks after we got there he preached have you received the Holy Ghost since

24:21you believed and I was like Bob no I didn't even know I didn't know what was

24:24supposed to do they kept saying those words through that cassette tape all the

24:31time but nobody ever gave an altar call nobody ever invited me to be filled with

24:37the Holy Ghost are you kidding me I was like I was a bird out of prison

24:45I'll bet and it's made all of the difference in the world to to how we

24:53were able to live our lives we got out from under that rage is is the only word

25:02I can really give it is this rage that you you would go and sit and listen to

25:11the tapes and then you would feel like you had been raged at yeah and and you

25:21could see a lot of self-satisfaction on a couple of the men's faces like yeah we

25:28did a good job raging now yeah good job raging let's all go have coffee and I

25:35bet I bet God's proud of us now yeah so damaging to people it is who just want

25:45to hear the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ and he's so wonderful he's so

25:51wonderful why would Billy Paul even think to spend his entire life

26:00perpetrating a bald-faced lie and call it something even remotely connected

26:12yeah the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ it's beyond me I don't know Joseph from

26:18a cake of soap I only know Billy Paul because he'd come to that church you

26:23know and we wouldn't listen to a tape then he would stand up and tell stories

26:26and and I don't really know knew him from a cake soap either but but I'll

26:33tell you this that's a lot of effort to perpetrate lies that don't make any

26:42wonderful eternal change in people's lives except drag him to hell you

26:48brought back so many different memories I remember as a as a kid when you're in

26:53one of these tape churches and I've been to both I've been to somewhere they

26:57preached and somewhere they played the tapes but when you're in these tape

27:00churches you're hearing William Branham ranting basically especially there's

27:05periods of time that change in his life towards the end of his life everybody

27:09has cut him off they realize that he's not only is he a white supremacist and a

27:14false prophet he's also a con artist and many other things and so they've cut him

27:19off and there were there were very limited numbers of people that would go

27:23see him and so he became bitterly angry and he became angry at all the other

27:28churches and so you're listening to a man rant against all of the other

27:33churches and that's what they called the gospel so one of my first memories

27:38escaping the message is we went to a normal church that wasn't like this and

27:44there was no ranting and and I was confused man why aren't they ranting why

27:47aren't they yelling at people and angry and it didn't make sense and and they

27:52asked me what is the gospel and I actually struggled to answer this

27:57question and every Christian should know it I'd read my Bible I knew I knew what

28:02was in the Gospels but I didn't know because they called this ranting they

28:07called it the gospel he's preaching the gospel and so in my head I'm thinking

28:12the gospel must be angry must be ranting and like you mentioned I went through

28:18the first series of sermons where they went through different different books

28:24and they would go through chapter by chapter and they would they taught me

28:27context basically because here's the chapter and we just we just studied the

28:32chapter before it and we're gonna study the chapter after it and whenever they're

28:36referencing the content of the chapter they're also telling you now remember

28:40back in the chapter before this and the one before that and suddenly none of the

28:46none of what they were saying about the Bible matched what I thought I believed

28:50and I'm scratching my head thinking what in the world was it they taught me and I

28:55had trained myself because I was in this nonsense I trained myself to read the

28:59Bible like the ranting and we had specific phrases that were over overly

29:06emphasized because they were used for the rants so when you're reading and you

29:10come to that phrase well all of the indoctrinated programming that's in your

29:14head comes out in that chapter and suddenly the chapter takes a new meaning

29:19and in the end I came to this conclusion it took me a few years but I came to

29:23this conclusion we had the Bible we read it but it was a different book than

29:27other Christians had because the way we were taught to read it was so far off

29:31the mark right so far off the mark and to hear the pure unadulterated gospel of

29:38Jesus Christ preached that that we had a Savior and that that he he wasn't bent

29:46on sending everyone to hell you know I remember William Branham and one of the

29:53tapes he says you know he he gets up to heaven and I don't know if he saw this

29:57in a vision or whatever he did but he gets there and there was so few people

30:02he was surprised by how few people were there and it was only the elect you know

30:08and it was just so few people John when I when I really read the Gospels and I

30:15really read the the glorious scriptures in Revelation it talks about a multitude

30:25that it couldn't even be numbered this is it's wonderful because Jesus was all

30:32about coming to seek and to save that which was lost he's not all about saying

30:37you know jump this high and give Billy Paul good offering tonight we had to do

30:44that we were told to give Billy Paul a good offering tonight so give him a good

30:50offering tonight and I guess you get a better seat I don't know okay can I

30:56pivot here just a minute yeah and tell you what has happened since I've come

31:02across your information and Charles Paisley's information I've got you guys

31:07books and I appreciate those and I would encourage anyone if you have any little

31:14question mark you know just get the books and just read it and then throw

31:20it away if you do if you think they haven't proven it I'll guarantee you

31:24one thing you guys are real researchers I was astonished that almost every other

31:38sentence or assertion that you make in your books is verified with recorded

31:48information news clippings tax documents everything is is is just recorded there

31:57it's I mean beautifully done so much so I had nothing to say against it I

32:04couldn't say well he's nuts you know he's wrong it was overwhelmingly obvious

32:14well you could probably still say that I'm nuts and that part might be accurate

32:18but I was made to be this way after I was made to be this way from in this

32:23this nonsense one of the problems that I had I've actually written several books

32:27and I've unpublished way more than I've written because I would write my

32:32thoughts and I didn't have all of those references but what I found was the

32:37history as it is as it has been preserved doesn't match the history that

32:42has been invented and so if you write the actual history nobody believes it

32:47so in effect we're having to rewrite history when we write these books so

32:51we're going through and almost like you said almost every sentence I have a

32:55direct quote even still because they've written it so far incorrectly you don't

33:02have the entire picture so you're trying to understand history while you're

33:06writing it and even still sometimes I miss it just a little bit because they

33:10have lied so much that to undo the lie you have to understand what it was

33:16originally that they lied about right right and why why they were lying what

33:21was their motivation when they were doing have you ever wondered how the

33:25Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostal ism

33:30transition through the latter rain charismatic and other fringe movements

33:35into the new apostolic reformation you can learn this and more on William

33:39Branham historical researches website william-branham.org on the books page of

33:46the website you can find the compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley

33:50Stephen Montgomery John McKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and

33:56digital versions of each book you can also find resources and documentation on

34:02various people and topics related to those movements if you want to

34:06contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute

34:10button at the top and as always be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or

34:15video version that you're listening to or watching on behalf of William Branham

34:19historical research we want to thank you for your support so so here's what's

34:25interesting to me you know I'm going through your books I'm going through

34:30Charles Paisley's books I'm listening to your podcasts and and I'm and you know

34:38this is this is like 45 years ago for me you know back there the Brannamite stuff

34:4445 years ago you know 45 years for me it knowing the Lord Jesus Christ is my

34:50personal Savior being filled with the Holy Spirit loving the scriptures and

34:56soaking and and saturating myself in the scriptures and still when I began to

35:06understand these facts and the information you guys brought forward I

35:11had to arrest myself and go where are these threads of Brannamite lies that

35:22are still left in me and Lord get them out of me get them out of me because I

35:30don't want to be representing you and still holding up William Branham going

35:38well he was a really good healer and he had a lot of good gifts you know he got

35:43off in his teaching in the last but you know he really was one of the true

35:47prophets of the 20th century hogwash hogwash he was a lion deceiver and that

35:57is devastating to think that so much of my life was soaked in that and

36:07furthermore my 93 year old father who's still alive has spent decade upon decade

36:18believing this and I had to question now I had Charles Paisley's book in one hand

36:26I had your book in the other hand my father lived in lives in a cabin down

36:32the lane it's like what do I do do I just leave him do I just leave him to go

36:40ahead and think what he's been thinking all these years or do I say something

36:49and he's probably going to reject it he's probably gonna get mad he's

36:53probably gonna get violent again or whatever and one day I'm flipping

37:02through one of the books I forgot which one it was at that time and I hit upon

37:07the document where hundred thousand or hundred million dollars

37:15Jehovah Jireh foundation I may have that figure wrong but but Jehovah Jireh

37:23foundation all of a sudden has like X bazillion dollars I call it creative

37:31accounting and my father's former boss his name is right there on the

37:41paperwork and I went are you kidding me and the Lord just gave me wisdom and he

37:51said that's what you take to your father so I took it to him and I said dad I

37:57said I got a problem with this I said I'm finding out some stuff about this

38:01Brandomite business and he goes all that oh yeah and you know his brother's gone

38:07dead and gone now and not forcing him to go to church anymore because his his

38:13brother was a message preacher and not forcing his and the the cousins were not

38:20don't have power over him anymore they're not forcing him and I said did

38:28you know that Paul put his name on this document and there's like oh that

38:37particular instant I think or that year was something like 59 million dollars in

38:44Jehovah Jireh and that's a Brandomite thing and he was like stunned because

38:54these people have been working these poor and ignorant outlying people groups

39:00and talking them in to being something special like you get to be the bride but

39:07the rest of us don't and y'all do this and jump this high and give a good

39:12offering because Billy Paul's come today and they're got that kind of money and

39:19when I showed that to my father he was first stunned secondly he goes but what

39:29about the miracles what well what about the the little boy who's and he tried to

39:35talk about a miracle and I said I said dad here's what I know document after

39:43document after document has proven William Branham's falsity has proven

39:51Billy Paul Branham's falsity has proven Joseph Branham's falsity and he goes

39:58well who is this that's doing this saying all this stuff and I said well

40:06dad you you remember you ever heard of brother and sister Willard Collins he

40:13goes oh yeah brother Collins oh yeah oh yeah brother said brother and Betty

40:17Collins sure huh yeah oh yeah I met him several times I said it's his grandson

40:24and that got his attention because he was like wait a minute what do you have

40:32to gain by pulling this whole thing apart unless there's some truth to it

40:40people don't realize I stood to lose a heck of a lot more than I stood to gain

40:45by doing it and in fact I have lost quite a bit by doing it but the truth

40:50had to be out there you know what I mean it's I could not sit still knowing that

40:54this was all false while other people were struggling and I mean many people

40:59were donating their life savings to this group and here the year that I found

41:04that document that you're referring to a hundred million dollars was donated

41:08into the main primary organization and so they did not lose their nonprofit

41:12status creative accounting pushed that into a brand new organization and the

41:18whole mess you know I look back and the year before this my children were

41:23collecting penny jars for Jesus because they didn't have any money and they're

41:28telling people they have no money and here's a hundred million dollars you

41:31got to be kidding me it's criminal criminal it's moral and

41:36ethically criminal it's in every way criminal and it really speaks to why and

41:48this is this is such a picture in my mind that when you guys did the podcast

41:55on the the gravestones that are up there in the Branhamite Cemetery and

42:03then you guys get to Billy Paul's own gravestone now here's all of these

42:11people who gave their lives and their money and their children and their

42:17everything for this Branhamite stuff and they put his scriptures and they he

42:25he's the prophet on their gravestone and Billy Paul couldn't be bothered to

42:30do that for his own daddy that was supposed to be the prophet couldn't be

42:36bothered all he says come walk with me by some little stream okay what a wussy

42:43what a wussy

42:47geez couldn't even stand up for his own lies on his gravestone

42:58Lord have mercy I strongly suspect that neither he nor his brother believe any

43:03of this but it is a really really good way to make

43:06money I guess it's been an awesome way for them to make money

43:10and I guess they either a have deceived themselves so firmly in the idea that

43:21that you know maybe Jesus sorry come and maybe this is you know this is

43:25we're you know eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die there's nothing

43:29after this I can't figure out why the fear of God

43:35is not in them I can't figure out why the fear of God

43:39was not in Billy Paul before he lost himself to

43:43cancer I can't I can't figure out why those who

43:48perpetrate this lie are

43:53are so in love with it the only reason for me really to speak

44:00to this community that might hear this to the Branhamite community someone in

44:05there that might hear this is my cousins are he are still in this

44:11my father's brother was a message minister

44:16and talk about gifted to rage he was a gifted rager

44:24so gifted to rage we never had anything to do with him and my own father

44:28would rarely have anything to do with him unless he had to go play the piano

44:31at one of the services because he didn't like him and he was

44:35afraid of him and he was not a very nice person

44:42but my cousins are some of them right there in Jeffersonville

44:49some of them are probably already buying plots of cemetery ground

44:54so they can get nearest the pyramid they can get nearest to

44:59and I want them to question this I want them to go

45:04look who's winning here it's not you guys living poor like that

45:11it's those guys living rich off of this lie and you guys are

45:18sacrificing for nothing

45:23and it it just tears me up it tears me up yeah

45:29it tears me up too it's hard to imagine that

45:33I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people it's just simply more

45:37comfortable because it is devastating to try to leave a

45:41cult you leave and every single person that

45:44you ever knew and loved cut you off and many of them the rage that they hear in

45:49those sermons they've been trained to do this

45:52so then that rage is pointed at you and you know before you

45:56make the decision to leave and step the foot out the door

45:59you know exactly what's going to happen to you by every single person who you

46:03ever knew and so it's just it's uncomfortable for

46:06people to leave I have in fact I've had people who one

46:10person even called me up and said look man I know what you're

46:14saying is right but I would lose everything and I don't

46:17believe it they they said this which is odd to me I don't believe it but I'm

46:21still going to go to church so I can keep the peace in the family

46:24well what is church man what the church is not

46:28this it's not meant to be teaching rage against your brother

46:32and those who don't agree with you suddenly you just cut them off and treat

46:36them like this so in the end what it gives them is a life

46:41that isn't fulfilled and it puts them on a slippery slope to

46:46hell because there's only one savior the

46:50Lord Jesus Christ there is no such thing as Lord Branham

46:56there is no such thing as Lord Branham there is only one Lord Jesus Christ

47:04and he came to seek and to save that which was lost and he

47:07died for us and William Branham didn't die for us and by George he didn't

47:14resurrect for us either no matter how many times they stand

47:19around that pyramid he ain't coming out like that

47:24he's a bunch of bones if that underneath that

47:28it's just so hard to believe I remember whenever I first

47:32started doing this back in 2000 or the 2012

47:37there was a one of the news people actually contacted me and

47:41I was on the news and silhouette and back then I was just a scared ex-cult

47:45member I told them in fact I was so scared I told them

47:48don't even use the word cult because I at that point in time I couldn't yet

47:52call it that and the very first question they asked

47:55me is is this the same cult and he was not

47:59afraid to use the word is this the same cult where the people

48:02go every Easter to rise up out of the grave

48:05and that was the first time really that it ever had hit me

48:09that that's what people did I knew it I you know I grew up and people were doing

48:12it every year but it was the first time that I really

48:16acknowledged how wrong it was that they were doing that

48:19and then through the research I'm sure you've read it but

48:23I learned that my grandfather and key figures in the message

48:27basically propagated that as a lie to keep all the people

48:31in the cult after he died just so that the money would continue to flow

48:36right and it's a it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living god

48:43and to do exactly what they have done

48:49which is to take the holy scriptures and add to them and say

48:56okay well here's the revelation of the mystery

49:01gosh it's uh it's William Branham oh isn't that convenient

49:08I would be more inclined to believe it if Joseph Branham would give up his

49:13hundred million dollars and

49:18put some sandals on and walk across America

49:22try to bring people to the Lord Jesus Christ

49:25well that ain't gonna happen because they got themselves a nice little empire

49:30on the backs of poor ignorant in many ways ignorant of

49:37the scriptures because they keep you ignorant of the scriptures they don't

49:44ever say you know open your bible to chapter

49:48whatever and you know we're going to start working through this verse by verse

49:53you know the very next thing they do is say and William Branham said

49:57and William Branham said and William Branham said

50:01don't be telling me that give me the holy scriptures

50:04and let me see what Jesus said and we're gonna line it up

50:07and I found out man it doesn't line up worth nothing

50:11and I am so thankful tell Charles Paisley

50:16that I'm so thankful for the work you guys have done and others have done

50:20I'm so proud of those who have made these hard sacrifices to come out for me

50:27it was easy because I was more or less

50:31if you could say it like this I was sent out you know

50:34two brochures were dropped into my lab that opened

50:38an opportunity for me to go to a college and work my way through college

50:42and I got to go get out of the tiny

50:49that tiny belief system that suffocating belief system I got to get out

50:55and I found out what my mom had felt years and years earlier that it was a

51:00cult I found out really was a cult and John I'm so proud

51:04of my mother she was 89 she passed away in January

51:08you know but in 1973 or 1974 she realizes by the power of the Holy

51:14Spirit working in her and the and the true knowledge of the

51:18scriptures she realizes this is a cult and she did the best she could she

51:22couldn't take all of us but she took at least three of them and

51:26got those little ones out that they never had to be

51:29raised up in this kind of stuff that's good if you could go back in time

51:35to back when you were a little girl and the man on the recording is calling

51:40you lower than a hog or lower than a dog

51:42what would you tell the little girl to give her some encouragement

51:46I would say hold on because Jesus sees you

51:55and he hasn't forgotten you and he cherishes you and he

52:03didn't think you were a hog he gave his life for you

52:10and he's gonna make a way for you to get out

52:15and hear the truth of Jesus Christ and fall in

52:18love with the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ hold on

52:27don't give up there's a better day coming

52:35that's what I would say that was one of my favorite songs I want to say it was

52:40maybe the cathedrals that there's a song called hold on and it was

52:44basically saying exactly what you're saying I used to love that song growing

52:47up but thank you so much for doing this I know

52:50that everybody who's listening is going to find a lot of encouragement from this

52:55and I appreciate you having me on today let me share my heart

53:00and once again I just want to say and how thankful to God I am

53:07for you and Charles being obedient others

53:10who I may never know

53:14to be obedient to research to dig to find to ask questions to seek for the

53:19truth and to love the truth

53:25I may never see you again on this side but when I see you over

53:31there I'll give you a big old hug and give Charles a big old hug

53:37and you can't do that in brand of my business but in heaven we can do that

53:43give a big old hug and say thank you thank you for the hard times you endured

53:48thank you for the

53:52I can't imagine the heartbreak you endured

53:56but thank you because you helped me and you helped my 93 year old

54:03father who after he considered what had

54:08he had read and what I had shared with him

54:13he got up and he took that picture of Branham off the wall with that

54:18halo supposed halo everybody else has too

54:23if they were if they were their picture was taken in the same stadium

54:27they got the same halo he took that picture off the wall

54:32and then he said I don't know I don't know

54:36what I'm gonna put up there I said put a picture of your mama up there

54:40because she really did know Jesus and the next time I went down to his cabin

54:45to visit him there he is got a picture of his mama up there

54:48and that picture of the false prophet is gone

54:52because William Branham was a false prophet

54:56he lied to the people he lied to himself he lied to God

55:02and I'm so thankful for people like you who look for the truth

55:05well thank you and like I said I'm so glad that you're sharing your story

55:09it'll give a lot of other people encouragement

55:12if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on

55:15the web you can find us at william-branham.org

55:19for more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation

55:22you can read Weaponize Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR

55:27available on Amazon, Kindle, and soon Audible

56:22you

Our Stories - An Interview With Gaye Newman Lisby - Episode 203 Branham Research Podcast

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