German prosecutors said they had arrested a Libyan man on suspicion of having links to the Islamic State group and planning to attack the Israeli embassy in Berlin with firearms. Terrorism expert Raphael Bossong speaks with DW.
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00:00For some analysis, I'm joined in the studio by Raphael Bossong.
00:04He is a terrorism expert at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs.
00:08Raphael, welcome back to DW.
00:11So we've been hearing that the German authorities were able to prevent this particular attack
00:18on the Israeli embassy thanks to a tip-off from a foreign intelligence agency.
00:24But without outside help, just how capable are German counter-terrorism forces in adequately
00:32protecting Israeli and also Jewish institutions in this country?
00:36Well, on the ground, there is a lot of presence, and I think the German state really invests
00:40very heavily in the physical security of those facilities.
00:44But yes, to prevent and to really get the early tip-off from mostly internet monitoring,
00:50that's something the German authorities are trying to do, but they have far less capabilities
00:55or even more competences that they are lacking.
00:57And this is the debate that we're having for many years that, of course, Germany also prizes
01:02itself of a very legal approach to things and that we don't do mass surveillance.
01:07But in these cases, of course, sometimes the mass surveillance is what it takes to sort
01:11of catch up on these chats with sort of foreign groups abroad and find some isolated person
01:17like this alleged attacker.
01:19Well, indeed, this alleged attacker was, as we've been hearing, a Libyan national who
01:24made a request for asylum back in 2023.
01:28We also heard from our reporter that this request was rejected.
01:31Raphael, are we going to hear more debate in Germany about immigration, about deporting
01:38failed asylum seekers?
01:40Well, obviously, there have been some reactions in this direction already, but, you know,
01:45not to be flippant, but I think it's hard to imagine more debate about that.
01:48I mean, Germany has been in the thralls of a debate on how to toughen up migration and
01:52deportation at least ever since the last actual terrorist attack at the end of August.
01:58And many things have been set into motion.
02:00Of course, politically, you know, one or the other issue hasn't been resolved yet.
02:04And this is specifically what the chancellor has picked up on.
02:07It's not actually deportation, but it's the so-called security package, which was meant
02:12to come alongside sort of tightening laws and immigration.
02:15So the government and actually the German parliament has already passed a package of
02:20laws to tighten security, to tighten laws about gun ownership and knife ownership, and
02:26also to empower the authorities to search the internet against biometric images.
02:32And just two days ago, the other part of the German parliament, so the Bundesrat, where
02:37the German states are assembled, the kind of German Senate, blocked that package.
02:41So the chancellor took this attack now to say it's time to pass this new security package.
02:47Probably it wouldn't have changed the dynamics of this particular instance, but I think this
02:51is where the debate is going, less on deportation, more on empowering the German security authorities.
02:58We also heard that this alleged plotter who wanted allegedly to attack the Israeli embassy
03:04had ties to the Islamic State.
03:07Just more broadly speaking, how much influence do groups like Islamic State have in Germany?
03:14Well, it's hard to tell.
03:16I mean, in this case, it seems like a case of somebody individually contacting the Islamic
03:21States and just being in chat online.
03:24We don't know more at this point in time.
03:27The Islamic State doesn't seem to have a real organization in Germany.
03:31There are other groups that are more sort of networked and actually may have more than
03:35just one person.
03:36And you know, not to sound too complacent, it is difficult to find these isolated actors,
03:42but it's also isolated actors that are often less capable than a proper cell that really
03:47planned for months and actually may have more sophisticated devices or plans to execute
03:52their attacks.
03:53So the IS in Germany itself seems still pretty remote and weak, but this doesn't mean that
03:59the IS is not a threat that has to be remembered, that is actually serious and may also be growing
04:04in various parts of the world.
04:06And so while we are concerned about many, many other security threats, and this is the
04:10real challenge that security authorities in Germany are worried about, that they have
04:14to worry about Russia, that they have to worry about right-wing extremists, and they also
04:18shouldn't forget about the old threat of Islamic terrorism.
04:22And for them, it's a lot to take at once.
04:24Raphael Bossong, terrorism expert at the German Institute for International Security Affairs,
04:29always great to hear your insights.
04:31Many thanks indeed.