This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Paige Mather to discuss the films; Little Women, Lady Vengeance, Barbie, and The Favourite.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club, I'm Chris DC and each week I'll be joined by
00:18a guest from Kent to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life.
00:23Each guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years
00:28and every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that
00:32has a connection to the county.
00:35And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:38She's a historical and feminist film enthusiast with an MA in Film Production and Media.
00:44She is Paige Mather.
00:46Hi.
00:47Great to have you on Paige.
00:48Thank you for having me.
00:49Not at all.
00:50Now I don't know your films in advance, I saw this at the cinema I think December 2019.
00:55Yeah.
00:56Little Women.
00:57Yeah absolutely.
00:58So I've chosen this film as my first one because I think it pulls together the two things that
01:04I like the most which is historical films and feminist films.
01:09I have to admit I'm a bit of a sucker for the, I think it's 1949, Little Women that
01:17had, oh I can't remember her name, a lot of famous actresses essentially and I've always
01:26enjoyed that film ever since I was a child.
01:29My granny introduced me to it and so it's just always had that sort of special place
01:33in my heart.
01:34So when this film came out I had really, really mixed opinions.
01:39I had high hopes that it was going to be just as good as the one that I'd come to love but
01:45then I was also worried that it was going to ruin it for me and that it wouldn't be
01:48as good but goodness did it exceed my expectations.
01:52Because there's one in between of course in 1994 with Susan Sarandon and Winona Ryder
01:56and I haven't seen that and that's for another day but I have to toss a coin once as to whether
02:00to see that at the cinema or The Shawshank Redemption but that's definitely another story.
02:06Tell me about this one because it was obviously heavily Oscar nominated and it was sort of
02:11felt to be a film that was both faithful to the Alcott source material but also had a
02:18lot to say for anybody with not least in terms of issues around feminism and inclusivity
02:25and it did feel like it had a lot to say to contemporary audiences.
02:30Yeah, I think part of the reason that I really resonated with it when I first watched it,
02:38it touched very, very well.
02:40I think it had a very good originality as well as touching on those book sort of ideas
02:47and that Louisa May Alcott, she wrote the book so beautifully, it's almost hard to do
02:52it complete justice but I think that Greta Gerwig did a really good job.
02:56I think the themes of feminism, independence and sisterhood is very much something that
03:01today's audience resonates with.
03:03I've got a younger sister myself and so watching their relationship and the way they just love
03:08each other, care for each other and cheer each other on going through completely different
03:13phases of life is something that I think really brought it home for me and that's part of
03:21the reason that I really like the film.
03:23Because that's one of the real challenges isn't it, particularly when you've got a source
03:25material and of course there will be people who may have read the novel before seeing
03:31any of the film adaptations but there is that sense in which it has to be both faithful
03:36to the source but also has something new to say and did you read, have you read the novel
03:40and did you read it after seeing that original 1949 version?
03:44Yes, yes.
03:45So I have watched the film, 1949, ever since I was, oh goodness, maybe ten.
03:52Read the book perhaps in secondary school, maybe 14 or 15 when I first read the book
03:57and so I'd sort of seen a film, read the book, seen another film.
04:02So when I read the book I was almost like, that's not what happens but I think every
04:10story regardless of the slight differences all focus on that sort of main point which
04:19is sisterhood and female independence and that sort of thing which, yeah.
04:27Are there particular scenes that stand out in this one for you?
04:31I really, really enjoy the scene where Amy and Jo find each other in France.
04:38I just think that that's, oh hang on, do they, they do don't they, sorry, I haven't
04:44watched it in a little while, where they find each other in France and they have that big
04:48argument and I just think it was so well done, I love an argument scene in a film, I just
04:56think it was really, really beautifully done and it really felt like you were watching
05:02sisters have a fallout and yeah, absolutely great.
05:07Well I had the privilege of watching this on the big screen, I saw it twice actually
05:10in Dover back in, before Christmas and of course for me it was just before lockdown
05:14so there was that sense that, you know, that this was a really big film and it was, you
05:18know, one of the last films I saw before that but when, can you remember the first times,
05:22I'm assuming that you've watched this more than once, the first time you watched Little
05:25Women?
05:26The first time I watched it I went with my best friend, we went to the cinema in Ashford,
05:32oh my goodness, stocked up on all sorts of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, pick a mix sweets
05:36and just sat and gawked at the screen for however long.
05:42Walking out of that cinema I was just like wow, this is, I mean, Gerwig's always been
05:47a big inspiration for me, she's coming really into her own right as one of the first female
05:53auteurs in my opinion and so that really, having, you know, having started university
06:00in 2019, doing film production and seeing women with these huge achievements, directing,
06:06acting and just these beautiful, beautiful films, yeah, I remember just the drive home
06:12thinking well, you know, that's what I want to do, I want to make these.
06:16Brilliant, well it is time now Paige to move on to your second chosen film and you've gone
06:22for Lady Vengeance.
06:25Lady Vengeance, yes, a bit of a contrast, so obviously not an English film, it's, what
06:37I like about this film is, you know, it focuses on the female rage and revenge, having been
06:49wronged in the past, obviously she was wrongly imprisoned for a murder that she did not commit
06:55and so on her release, you know, just that desire and that passion to get justice.
07:04I think this is probably one of the first films I watched that depicted female rage
07:09in that way, most of the films I'd watched before that, feminist films etc, had still
07:16shown the woman as quite demure, not argumentative, maybe independent but not quite like Lady Vengeance.
07:28It really showed me that horror is a good way to sort of touch on those sociological
07:36points.
07:37Do you want to say a little bit about, so when the film was made but when you first
07:42saw it and how groundbreaking it was at the time?
07:45Oh goodness, I think it was early 2000s, I couldn't pinpoint a year for you, I first
07:50saw it in 2020, so it was one of my university lecturers, Alex Choate, who sadly passed away
07:58this year, he was so passionate about film and I remember him showing us this film as
08:05sort of an introduction to, hey, not every good film you have to watch needs to be English
08:12and not every film about feminism needs to be like Little Women.
08:20You can touch on these sociological points in a completely different way and it actually
08:27inspired me, my master's project, the short film that I made was sort of inspired by this
08:35and I made a film about a young female serial killer who was essentially preying on men
08:43that had wronged women in some way previously.
08:48So yeah, a huge inspiration for horror and the monstrous feminism, the monstrous feminine.
08:54And I'm thinking to anybody who hasn't seen this, where was this made?
08:59Which film, which country does this originate from?
09:04It's Korean, I believe, yes, Korea, I don't want to get it wrong, and it's just fantastic.
09:13I'm not sure, I think, I'm not too clued up on the culture over there, but I do have an
09:21understanding that they're a slightly more conservative country and so this was probably
09:26sent shockwaves when it first came out, I mean it even sent shockwaves through people
09:31my age when I was, I introduced all of my friends to this film when I first watched it.
09:36And so I think the culture behind it is really something special, yeah.
09:40Yeah, when you consider a film like Oldboy as well, I know that there's going to be a
09:44Korean season at the BFI around Christmas time and I think that that's the key thing,
09:49isn't it?
09:50Because even with Little Women, you find that something that was written a century or so
09:54ago, it's going to resonate in different ages with different constituencies of people.
09:59There's no sort of uniform way of interpreting this, but this obviously deals with the sort
10:04of themes that are, perhaps, as you say, associated with the horror genre, but has a lot to say
10:11in terms of feminism and the themes, indeed, that you were studying as part of your own masters.
10:15Absolutely, yeah, just any kind of feminist film, historical film, it all really, it just
10:28really resonates with me, it just touches me.
10:31And I think, yeah, absolutely.
10:33And can you remember when you saw this?
10:35Because you said, I think, 2020 you saw this.
10:38I'm guessing it was probably on the small screen, considering what was going on in 2020.
10:43It was in a lecture theatre, so we just, I think it was October, so we were just allowed
10:48to go back in person, so we were sat in this lecture theatre, we were all sort of two seats
10:53away from each other, and Alex was right at the front, we were all wearing our masks,
10:58and I remember just thinking, oh, you know, coming back to uni, it's not going to be the
11:02same as it was, you know, we're not going to be able to enjoy ourselves and go on shoots
11:08and things like that, and walking out of that lecture and having seen this film, I think,
11:15sort of made me realise as well, no, maybe it's not that bad, you can still, we can still
11:22enjoy film and learn about film in a different way, so.
11:26Brilliant.
11:27Well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show.
11:32However, before we go to the break, we have a Kent Film trivia question for you at home.
11:39Which Jane Austen-based film was filmed at the Manor House in Groombridge, here in Kent?
11:45Was it A, Persuasion, B, Pride and Prejudice, or was it C, Becoming Jane?
11:51We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:54Don't go away.
11:55INTRO MUSIC
12:07Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:09Just before that ad break, we asked you at home a Kent Film trivia question.
12:13Which Jane Austen-based film was filmed at the Manor House in Groombridge, here in Kent?
12:18Was it A, Persuasion, B, Pride and Prejudice, or C, Becoming Jane?
12:24And now I can reveal to you that the answer was, in fact, B, Pride and Prejudice.
12:29Although over the years there have been a number of entertainment adaptations of the
12:32story, the 2005 film utilised the Kent home within its creation.
12:38Did you get the answer right?
12:40Well, it is time now, Paige, to move on to your next chosen film, and you've gone for
12:46Barbie.
12:47I have.
12:50Maybe got a generic one, but again, another Greta Gerwig.
12:57I mean, there's not really much to say, it's just, it's like Marmite, you either love it
13:04or you hate it.
13:05I think it caused a bit of controversy when it first came out, and a lot of people maybe
13:11got the wrong end of the stick and thought perhaps it might be quite anti-feminist.
13:19And then there was a sub-genre of people that were massively into Ken, and I think that,
13:25I mean the I'm Just Ken song, I think it won an Oscar.
13:29Yeah, it certainly performed at the Oscars, wasn't it, by writing, yeah.
13:34Absolutely.
13:35For me personally, I think it was a really, really good way to sort of show the way, it
13:43wasn't just about Barbie, it was about women in society in general, and it was a fantastic
13:49way, especially for younger girls, to be introduced to the concept of feminism and equal rights
13:57and just sort of the way that society can be towards women.
14:01Now we've had this film chosen before, I would venture that it's, if not the, certainly one
14:06of the most chosen films on Kent Film Club, but we've also had it selected by both female
14:12and male guests, so it's interesting you said that it had that sort of Marmite tendency,
14:16but it did sort of blow people away back in the summer of 2023.
14:20Yeah, absolutely, I mean, just brilliant, I remember watching it and America Ferreira's
14:26sort of speech, you know, I mean, it's everywhere, but I remember that really brought a tear
14:33to my eye, because I just thought, there are so many women in my life, that, you know,
14:39my family, you know, my sister, my mum, my best friends, even my granny, you know, and
14:45we've all experienced this sort of universal feeling of what it's like to feel, you know,
14:54the pressures and the expectations of society on women, but then yet to sort of think, who
15:04am I, aside from all of that, who am I within myself?
15:09And I think Barbie did that really, really well.
15:12And what was really clever as well was having that interplay between Barbieland and the
15:16real world and the way that the two intersected with each other, because there was that very
15:19clever deconstruction, which perhaps would appeal maybe to slightly older audience members,
15:24because I went to see it with my children, but in a way watching this and sort of seeing
15:29what Barbie represents and has done, this is the crucial point for many decades.
15:34Oh, yeah, goodness, it's the 50s, Barbara, yeah, absolutely, I mean, her going into the
15:41real world and the shock that I think came for her and Ken and realising that, you know,
15:52she's always had, again, that sort of Marmite theory of, you know, she can be and do anything,
15:59you know, she's had every career under the sun.
16:01You can find any outfit to dress your Barbie up, there's so many different Barbies now,
16:06it's not just the classic blonde, blue eyes sort of model figure.
16:14But then on the flip side, that original Barbie, she almost, at the beginning, perpetuated
16:19that sort of perfect woman with, you know, tall, slim, light features, and so, again,
16:31some people didn't want the Barbie movie.
16:35But I have to say, though, what really resonated with some people, and one of our previous
16:39guests said this, that it was the weird Barbie, you know, the character there, which showed
16:45that you don't have to fit a particular prototype.
16:48And so, in other words, everybody got something out of it that resonated with their own expectation.
16:53And the very end of the film as well, it was quite clever, because there was that sense
16:57of almost sort of like then Barbie herself, revisiting the stereotypes within which not
17:06just she has, you know, that define her and by which she had previously defined herself.
17:11Yeah, absolutely, and I think it was very profound, her making the decision to go into
17:17the real world and to, you know, want to work and to want to die, really.
17:27I know that sounds awful, but, you know, the beginning of the film, she's very much in
17:32this bubble, and she's starting to have these real world thoughts of like, you know, she
17:37says, have you guys ever thought about death?
17:41And for her to sort of make that decision to live in today's society and to live, you
17:50know, as sort of a real woman, I guess, was really profound, and I think that was a really
18:00fantastic ending, yeah.
18:01Brilliant.
18:02Well, it is time now, Paige, to move on to your final chosen film, and you've gone for
18:09the favourite.
18:10I have, yes.
18:11The Oscar winning the favourite.
18:12The Oscar winning the favourite.
18:14I hadn't watched this film until the beginning of this year, and it, I mean, again, historical
18:23films and also a representation of the LGBT community did it in such a way it didn't feel
18:30like an exploitation, which I really enjoyed.
18:34It also focused on, again, similar to Lady Vengeance, that sort of the monstrous feminism
18:41and the lengths that a woman might go to to sort of get revenge should she feel wronged.
18:46And I'm just thinking, because I recently reviewed Firebrand, which is out at the moment,
18:51and again, that notion of going back over history or his story, and then sort of in
18:56that case showing Catherine Parr, but actually presenting her as a prototypical feminist
19:01figure, but history has reduced her to a footnote.
19:03So it's that sort of reclaiming of characters from the past, where the official almanacs
19:10don't give us the sort of story that we had in this, in this quite, in many cases, well,
19:14very, very, shall we say in some cases, quite sort of bombastic, very sort of challenging film.
19:18Yeah, absolutely.
19:21It's just a firecracker of a film, I would say.
19:26There's, you're never bored.
19:27There's so much going on.
19:29The cinematography, I think, is fantastic.
19:32I can't off the top of my head remember the director's name.
19:34Oh, Langthanos.
19:35Jürgen Langthanos.
19:36Yes.
19:37Oh, my goodness.
19:38Wow.
19:39And just did such a fantastic job.
19:41And to get, I mean, this cast, unbelievable.
19:45And they, they mesh so well together.
19:49Just, just really, really stunning.
19:52And did you see this on the big screen, the small screen?
19:54I saw it on the small screen.
19:57Just on my computer at home in beds.
20:00I didn't really know what to expect when I first watched it.
20:03I hadn't actually seen any of the marketing for it.
20:06I didn't realise it was so big.
20:09And after watching it, I remember thinking,
20:11this needs to be shown to everyone.
20:15Googling it and realising, yes, it has.
20:18I actually saw this on New Year's Day.
20:19Funny, I mentioned, in a different year to Little Women.
20:21So this would have been right at the beginning of 2019.
20:24Interesting, the very beginning of that year.
20:26And, and of course, in the Oscars race that year,
20:28you had Olivia Colman, who won.
20:30But Lady Gaga, Glenn Close.
20:32So in a way, there was this real sort of battle
20:33of very strong female characters.
20:35Absolutely.
20:36Absolutely.
20:37I mean, speaking of Lady Gaga herself,
20:39I mean, she's in the new Joker film as well, that's coming out.
20:42I think it might have already come out.
20:44And I mean, she's a powerhouse.
20:47She's done really, really well for herself.
20:49But Olivia Colman too.
20:52She's been in the industry for so long.
20:55And I think it was very well deserved.
20:57I mean, her performance in this of a woman that's struggling,
21:01a woman in a position of power,
21:02if not the most powerful woman, you know, in the country,
21:06to be sort of played like a puppet
21:08by these two other younger, less socially powerful women.
21:14And her sickness and, you know,
21:16this manipulation that she is subject to
21:20was just a really, really beautiful performance.
21:23And do you think that there is a need for films like this
21:29that are effectively saying the way that we,
21:31you know, growing up as I did,
21:33I was at school in the 1980s,
21:35history was never looked at through this sort of lens.
21:37But watching this sort of film,
21:39you know, it kind of makes you think,
21:40well, you know, there are other stories out there
21:43that we were, you know, we are not privy to.
21:45And of course, there's a lot of creative reimagining.
21:47Of course there is, as with any film.
21:48But this sort of really hit the mark, didn't it?
21:51Back in, well, back in 2019 when I saw this.
21:53And then when you watched this on your computer.
21:55Yeah, absolutely.
21:58I think historical films, again,
22:02I keep saying the Marmite theory, but it is, it's true.
22:04You either love them or you hate them.
22:05My partner couldn't stand to sit through
22:08and watch a historical film.
22:11But for me, I think learning about history
22:15and seeing it through a different lens.
22:17And, you know, artistic liberties, yes, are always taken.
22:21But just seeing people's stories
22:23that haven't yet been told.
22:25You speak about Catherine Parr and, you know,
22:27there's plenty of films, you know,
22:29Anne Boleyn's probably the most prolific of the six.
22:33And all of the different films that you see
22:35about all of these women that perhaps previously
22:40have painted them in a different way
22:42that are now sort of starting to be reimagined.
22:45And, you know, just seeing, I mean,
22:49there's so many women in history
22:50whose stories haven't yet been told.
22:53So I hope that they get the chance.
22:56And very quickly, any particular scene
22:59in this film that stands out?
23:00The scene where...
23:02Oh, I can't remember the lady's name.
23:04She's sort of running for her life.
23:08She's fully about to die
23:09and she gets picked up and taken into a brothel.
23:13And I think her sort of realising,
23:17have I been living in a bubble?
23:18Is this the real world?
23:19Is this what women are subject to?
23:22I really liked that one.
23:23Yeah.
23:24Fantastic.
23:25Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:28But before we go, if you live in Kent
23:30and want the chance to share four films of your choice,
23:33reach out to us at KMTV
23:35and you might be invited in to be my next guest.
23:38But for now, many thanks to Paige Mather for joining us
23:41and being such a brilliant guest.
23:42And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:45Until then, that's all from us.
23:47Goodbye.