Nagsasagawa ng magkahiwalay na imbestigasyon ang Senado at Kamara kaugnay sa umano’y mga naganap na extrajudicial killings o EJK sa war on drugs ni dating Pangulong Rodrigo Duterte. Noong October 28, dumalo si dating Pangulong Duterte sa unang pagdinig ng Senate Blue Ribbon Committee para umano mag-accounting sa kampanya kontra droga sa ilalim ng kanyang administrasyon.
Ayon kay Atty. Kristina Conti, malaking tulong ang quad comm dahil nauungkat ang maraming ebidensya at lumalabas ang maraming testigo laban sa madugong pagpapatupad ng war on drugs.
Ang estado ng imbestigasyon at inaasahang patutunguhan nito, sasagutin ni ICC Assistant to Counsel, Atty. Kristina Conti sa #TheMangahasInterviews.
Ayon kay Atty. Kristina Conti, malaking tulong ang quad comm dahil nauungkat ang maraming ebidensya at lumalabas ang maraming testigo laban sa madugong pagpapatupad ng war on drugs.
Ang estado ng imbestigasyon at inaasahang patutunguhan nito, sasagutin ni ICC Assistant to Counsel, Atty. Kristina Conti sa #TheMangahasInterviews.
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00After the statements of former President Duterte about his role in the War on Drugs,
00:00:11will the process of the International Criminal Court speed up?
00:00:15And our guest today is the Assistant to the Council of the International Criminal Court,
00:00:20Atty. Cristina Crissi-Conti. Good day, Ms. Crissi.
00:00:25Yes, good day.
00:00:27Atty. Crissi is a graduate Bachelor of Science in Journalism at UP and a lawyer at UP College of Law.
00:00:37She is one of the leaders of the National Union of People's Lawyers
00:00:42and she also served as a counsel in the case against General Jovito Palparan.
00:00:48Here they are, Karen and Peño.
00:00:50Good day, Ms. Crissi, again, and let's talk.
00:00:53You said, so far, too little, too late, not enough.
00:00:57The investigation that's happening is like a welcome development for the Quadcom and Senate hearings.
00:01:04Where else can it be completed?
00:01:06If it's just going to be completed, then prosecution.
00:01:10Actually, this Quadcom and even the Senate investigation,
00:01:15in reality, the product of that is a report.
00:01:18The product of that is a possible, or what we call, law.
00:01:22Because the hearing or what is being discussed now,
00:01:26Senators, Congressmen, the work is to make a law.
00:01:31So in reality, if it's not going to be pushed,
00:01:34if it's not going to be pushed that there will be a criminal investigation and eventual prosecution,
00:01:40there is no truth to this in terms of, quote unquote, justice.
00:01:45What's coming out now though,
00:01:47the Quadcom is becoming a big opportunity because the war on drugs has been discussed again,
00:01:52even the POGO has been discussed, even the drug trade.
00:01:56There is a rising evidence and witnesses are facing it.
00:02:03That's what I think is a big help of this Quadcom.
00:02:06Because if there is none, I don't know where we will find these people.
00:02:11Others are quiet.
00:02:14On a political point of view, the framework he set is also different.
00:02:20When this Quadcom and the Senate came out,
00:02:25it's like you can sleep here in Congress to say whatever you want, whatever you want to know.
00:02:34This would not have been possible without this shift in political alliances.
00:02:39We agree.
00:02:40But whatever we can do, this is what we will do while there is a chance for the victims.
00:02:49In the past hearings of the Quadcom and the Senate hearings,
00:02:54what are the major revelations or major useful evidence or testimony?
00:03:01There are a lot.
00:03:03First, we really started our participation in the Committee on Human Rights,
00:03:09in the House of Representatives.
00:03:11Their question to us was,
00:03:13this is an investigation into the alleged extrajudicial killings during the time of Duterte.
00:03:20Starting from the poll, it looks like zero.
00:03:25In terms of acknowledgement that there have been human rights violations during the time of Duterte.
00:03:35I know for many, they don't know.
00:03:38But imagine, these killings, although covered by the media, were never on public record.
00:03:44They were not discussed in SONA.
00:03:47In fact, if you look at the official record of the government,
00:03:50it will say, accomplishment report.
00:03:52This is how many died.
00:03:54This is how many…
00:03:56It's a mess in SONA.
00:03:58And the President's reports are always covered.
00:04:01So if you just look at the public records,
00:04:03these killings and how they were killed,
00:04:06the version of the victims,
00:04:08they're not there.
00:04:10So in the investigation on alleged EJ cases,
00:04:14it's a good thing that we were given a chance to back up.
00:04:19Even the PNP.
00:04:21The PNP said, it's true.
00:04:23This is the one who died.
00:04:25And our last figure, and this is the official figure I guess,
00:04:287,500 killings, at least, in drug operations.
00:04:33Later on when the discussion and investigation developed,
00:04:37it turned out that these killings,
00:04:40whether they were committed by the police or by vigilantes,
00:04:44seemed to be part of a whole scheme.
00:04:47And in reality, the drug war was just a cover-up.
00:04:52For example, this is how many die.
00:04:55So this is a warning to everyone.
00:04:57But in the end, we can see that,
00:04:59even against politics,
00:05:01even against business,
00:05:03it's still there.
00:05:05The businesses that are part of, let's say,
00:05:09a criminal syndicate,
00:05:11POGO, and even the drug trade itself,
00:05:14are owned by Michael Yang.
00:05:16And the worst part is,
00:05:18you can blame it all on Duterte.
00:05:20That's why the Quadcom came together.
00:05:22Because they said, there's a pattern.
00:05:24In POGO, Duterte, Harry Roque is the one coming out.
00:05:29In the drug trade,
00:05:31Michael Yang, as Duterte's advisor,
00:05:34is the one coming out.
00:05:36That's why there's a pattern.
00:05:38And it's a good thing that the Quadcom
00:05:40was given context.
00:05:42This is what Duterte is really doing.
00:05:46So the acceptance or acknowledgement
00:05:48that there are cases like this,
00:05:50it seems that the basic data is still a bit different.
00:05:54You said that 7,000-plus are now being acknowledged
00:05:57as total cases by the government.
00:06:00But in the International Criminal Court,
00:06:04it went from 12,000 to 30,000.
00:06:07What really happened?
00:06:10How many were killed?
00:06:11How many became victims?
00:06:13That's right.
00:06:14I remember the logic that said,
00:06:18okay, how many died?
00:06:20Okay, name them one by one.
00:06:22Oh no.
00:06:23That's why it was annoying back then.
00:06:25But at least now,
00:06:27one is too many,
00:06:29that's what we said.
00:06:30So in reality,
00:06:32first of all,
00:06:33the numbers shouldn't matter
00:06:35as long as we can prove,
00:06:36because we have already proven that
00:06:38crime is crimes against humanity.
00:06:40And here,
00:06:41there is no absolute number that is needed.
00:06:43So you can just prove that they are widespread,
00:06:47in other words,
00:06:48a substantial amount,
00:06:50and they are happening nationwide,
00:06:52and systematic,
00:06:54there is a consistent modus operandi.
00:06:56It can be done even if there is no number.
00:06:58But that's right,
00:06:59different numbers are floating.
00:07:02In the police,
00:07:03the 7,500 dead in police operations.
00:07:05We are also looking at another figure,
00:07:08which would be deaths under investigation,
00:07:11or homicides under investigation,
00:07:13or murders under investigation,
00:07:15which are also numbered by the police.
00:07:18That's why they deny it.
00:07:19They say,
00:07:20not all of them are related to drugs.
00:07:22Related to what?
00:07:24In any case,
00:07:25if you total all these numbers,
00:07:27the figures run up to
00:07:29the mentioned 30,000
00:07:31who are being held by the ICC.
00:07:33Now, you said it's widespread,
00:07:34systematic,
00:07:35and it seems like the state policy is also included.
00:07:40But when President Duterte testified in the Senate,
00:07:44what did you get from that?
00:07:46Was that evidence,
00:07:48or a strong statement of the truth,
00:07:51or was he just joking?
00:07:53It's hard, isn't it?
00:07:55They said,
00:07:56it should be interpreted.
00:07:58All I know is that
00:07:59the ones in the beauty contest
00:08:01are being interpreted,
00:08:02in Spanish.
00:08:03This one,
00:08:04he said it in Tagalog,
00:08:05then in English,
00:08:06which we understand.
00:08:08What we got here is an admission,
00:08:10on the record,
00:08:11under oath,
00:08:12of his first admission
00:08:14as to responsibility for the entire,
00:08:17what he said,
00:08:18for the policy,
00:08:19for the war on drugs.
00:08:21He backtracked a bit,
00:08:23but we didn't,
00:08:24let's fine-tune it.
00:08:26It would be for his defense.
00:08:28But the fact that he admitted,
00:08:30that's it.
00:08:31He also admitted that there were death squads,
00:08:33no matter how he tries to figure out
00:08:35who the death squad was.
00:08:37At that point,
00:08:38he said,
00:08:39the death squads,
00:08:40all those on my right,
00:08:42all of them are members.
00:08:44We believed that.
00:08:46And third,
00:08:47he admitted in,
00:08:48like,
00:08:49modus operandi,
00:08:50this is about the fight,
00:08:52the 7,500 who died,
00:08:55most of them fought,
00:08:57actually,
00:08:58all of them fought,
00:08:59according to the police.
00:09:00Because why would they die
00:09:01in a police operation?
00:09:03They didn't just kill the police,
00:09:05the police wouldn't admit that.
00:09:07So this,
00:09:08what he's saying,
00:09:10if,
00:09:11if,
00:09:12if,
00:09:13like,
00:09:14first,
00:09:15he said something before,
00:09:16give them guns,
00:09:17let them fight.
00:09:18But now,
00:09:19he said,
00:09:20he is encouraging them
00:09:22to allow the suspect
00:09:23or the criminal,
00:09:24quote unquote,
00:09:25to fight back.
00:09:27So that you have a reason
00:09:30to kill the criminal.
00:09:32And that's what happened
00:09:34with more than 7,000 deaths.
00:09:37It would be impossible
00:09:39that that's really what happened
00:09:41with the 7,500
00:09:42without a clear investigation.
00:09:45So,
00:09:46as of now,
00:09:47the theory would be,
00:09:48the police's mode of operation
00:09:50is to invent the non-fighting scenario
00:09:53so that they can be satisfied
00:09:55with their responsibility.
00:09:57There are quick questions there.
00:09:59The non-fighting,
00:10:00and then,
00:10:01like,
00:10:02they were killed.
00:10:03But,
00:10:04isn't there a so-called
00:10:05proportional response
00:10:06in the police protocol?
00:10:07It means,
00:10:08in your data,
00:10:09and what Father Flavie said,
00:10:11most of the time,
00:10:13the right thing is in the head
00:10:15or in the back,
00:10:16not in the feet.
00:10:17So,
00:10:18how do you immobilize
00:10:19the proportional response
00:10:20of the police?
00:10:21Is that what you see
00:10:22in most of the cases?
00:10:24No.
00:10:26When you see,
00:10:27first,
00:10:28the number of wounds,
00:10:29and then,
00:10:30second,
00:10:31where the wounds are.
00:10:32We always see a lot of them
00:10:34in the head.
00:10:35And sometimes,
00:10:36in the back.
00:10:37So,
00:10:38how would you know
00:10:39that he was like that
00:10:40and then,
00:10:41he got hit?
00:10:42And then,
00:10:43mostly in the torso.
00:10:44It's really there.
00:10:45So,
00:10:46when we did a re-autopsy,
00:10:47or autopsy,
00:10:48or post-mortem,
00:10:49as Dr. Fortun calls it,
00:10:50it's like
00:10:51the major organs
00:10:52are being punctured.
00:10:54In the police manual,
00:10:56they removed that
00:10:57from the request
00:10:59in Rule 15
00:11:01of the Police Operational Procedure.
00:11:03Now,
00:11:04what they say is,
00:11:05okay,
00:11:06there needs to be
00:11:07an investigation.
00:11:08But,
00:11:09when it comes to
00:11:10the continuum of force,
00:11:11in layman's terms,
00:11:12like maximum tolerance,
00:11:14right?
00:11:15So,
00:11:16there's a continuum of force.
00:11:17Lethal force,
00:11:18non-lethal force.
00:11:19It depends on
00:11:20what kind of grip
00:11:21or what kind of danger
00:11:23your opponent will pose.
00:11:25In other words,
00:11:26if there's a gun,
00:11:27but it's just a punch,
00:11:28or maybe
00:11:29he can't hold it properly,
00:11:31you can hit him
00:11:32with your hand,
00:11:33with your foot.
00:11:34Because the ultimate
00:11:35objective of using force
00:11:37is to immobilize
00:11:39the other person
00:11:40so you can arrest.
00:11:42Not to kill.
00:11:44There are no instructions
00:11:46in the police manual
00:11:47to kill someone.
00:11:49That's why
00:11:50Duterte admitted
00:11:51that
00:11:52let them fight
00:11:54so you can just
00:11:55shoot them.
00:11:57That is
00:11:58not only
00:12:01unethical,
00:12:02it is illegal.
00:12:03The police
00:12:04can't just kill.
00:12:06Now,
00:12:07Atty. Chrissy,
00:12:08there was also a question
00:12:09in the Senate hearing
00:12:10about the majority
00:12:11of the dead
00:12:12who fought
00:12:13and had guns.
00:12:14Is there an inventory
00:12:16of the guns
00:12:17that were confiscated?
00:12:18We also asked about that.
00:12:20The 6,000,
00:12:21sorry,
00:12:22the 7,500
00:12:23at least,
00:12:24incidents,
00:12:25each of them
00:12:26should have a gun,
00:12:27right?
00:12:28Each of them
00:12:29should have a gun,
00:12:30a punch.
00:12:31Some said
00:12:32they had a knife.
00:12:33Others,
00:12:34whatever.
00:12:35Each of them
00:12:36should have
00:12:377,500
00:12:38guns.
00:12:397,500
00:12:40guns
00:12:41that were
00:12:42implemented
00:12:43by them.
00:12:44The problem
00:12:45was that
00:12:46the Office of the
00:12:47High Commissioner
00:12:48on Human Rights
00:12:49pointed out
00:12:50that there were
00:12:51at least
00:12:525 cases,
00:12:535 police reports,
00:12:545 incidents
00:12:55where
00:12:56the number
00:12:57of guns
00:12:58repeated
00:12:59over and over.
00:13:00The serial number
00:13:01of the guns.
00:13:02So,
00:13:03there was also
00:13:04a possibility
00:13:05that the guns
00:13:06were planted
00:13:07and recycled
00:13:08by the police.
00:13:09So,
00:13:10the police
00:13:11had to explain
00:13:12a lot of things.
00:13:13Another thing
00:13:14they had to account for
00:13:15was drugs.
00:13:16Because
00:13:17sometimes
00:13:18drugs are found
00:13:19by bust
00:13:20or possession.
00:13:21So,
00:13:22they would
00:13:23confiscate them
00:13:24and supposedly
00:13:25destroy them.
00:13:26But,
00:13:27I don't have
00:13:28too much
00:13:29information
00:13:30about this.
00:13:31So,
00:13:32this is also
00:13:33the story
00:13:34on the street
00:13:35that drugs
00:13:36are constantly
00:13:37confiscated
00:13:38by the police.
00:13:39So,
00:13:40if we hear
00:13:41at the end
00:13:42of War on Drugs,
00:13:43at the end
00:13:44of Duterte's term,
00:13:45someone got
00:13:46a ton of drugs,
00:13:47a ton of
00:13:48shabu.
00:13:49A ton of shabu
00:13:50was held
00:13:51by the police.
00:13:52Then,
00:13:53the other
00:13:54shipment
00:13:55was also
00:13:56held
00:13:57by the police
00:13:58who were
00:13:59helping
00:14:00to enter
00:14:01the Philippines.
00:14:02So,
00:14:03you really
00:14:04have to doubt
00:14:05that,
00:14:06and this was
00:14:07also said
00:14:08in the Senate,
00:14:09that maybe
00:14:10the police
00:14:11eventually
00:14:12became
00:14:13a supplier
00:14:14of drugs.
00:14:15Atty.
00:14:16Chrissy,
00:14:17in Ms.
00:14:18Garma's
00:14:19story,
00:14:20Roina Garma,
00:14:21they said
00:14:22that there
00:14:23was a reward
00:14:24for every
00:14:25person killed.
00:14:26There was
00:14:27a reward
00:14:28of one million
00:14:29depending on
00:14:30what happened
00:14:31and the status
00:14:32of the alleged
00:14:33pusher
00:14:34or user.
00:14:35So,
00:14:36not all
00:14:37people
00:14:38who were
00:14:39involved
00:14:40in drug
00:14:41operations
00:14:42were
00:14:43actually
00:14:44killed
00:14:45like
00:14:46the PCSO
00:14:47officer.
00:14:48So,
00:14:49what were
00:14:50those cases?
00:14:51Did you also
00:14:52look at
00:14:53the reward?
00:14:54Would that
00:14:55even matter
00:14:56in the
00:14:57International
00:14:58Criminal Court
00:14:59in terms
00:15:00of state
00:15:01policy?
00:15:02Was it
00:15:03systematic
00:15:04in terms
00:15:05of
00:15:06the
00:15:07reward?
00:15:08I would
00:15:09imagine
00:15:10that
00:15:11Wesley
00:15:12Barayuga
00:15:13would run
00:15:14in the
00:15:15hunt.
00:15:16Although
00:15:17300,000
00:15:18hit,
00:15:19I don't
00:15:20know how
00:15:21much
00:15:22the reward
00:15:23was.
00:15:24In any
00:15:25case,
00:15:26what we
00:15:27on the
00:15:28ground
00:15:29know
00:15:30or
00:15:31hear
00:15:32from
00:15:33the
00:15:34ground
00:15:35is
00:15:36that
00:15:37there
00:15:38was
00:15:39a
00:15:40system.
00:15:41If
00:15:42that
00:15:43system
00:15:44was
00:15:45there,
00:15:46how
00:15:47many
00:15:48cases
00:15:49were
00:15:50there?
00:15:51How
00:15:52many
00:15:53cases
00:15:54were
00:15:55there?
00:15:56How
00:15:57many
00:15:58cases
00:15:59were
00:16:00there?
00:16:01How
00:16:02many
00:16:03cases
00:16:04were
00:16:05there?
00:16:06How
00:16:07many
00:16:08cases
00:16:09were
00:16:10there?
00:16:11How
00:16:12many
00:16:13cases
00:16:14were
00:16:15there?
00:16:16How
00:16:17many
00:16:18cases
00:16:19were
00:16:20there?
00:16:21How
00:16:22many
00:16:23cases
00:16:24were
00:16:25there?
00:16:26How
00:16:27many
00:16:28cases
00:16:29were
00:16:30there?
00:16:31How
00:16:32many
00:16:33cases
00:16:34were
00:16:35there?
00:16:36How
00:16:37many
00:16:38cases
00:16:39were
00:16:40there?
00:16:41How
00:16:42many
00:16:43cases
00:16:44were
00:16:45there?
00:16:46How
00:16:47many
00:16:48cases
00:16:49were
00:16:50there?
00:16:51How
00:16:52many
00:16:53cases
00:16:54were
00:16:55there?
00:16:56How
00:16:57many
00:16:58cases
00:16:59were
00:17:00there?
00:17:01How
00:17:02many
00:17:03cases
00:17:04were
00:17:05there?
00:17:06How
00:17:07many
00:17:08cases
00:17:09were
00:17:10there?
00:17:11How
00:17:12many
00:17:13cases
00:17:14were
00:17:15there?
00:17:16How
00:17:17many
00:17:18cases
00:17:19were
00:17:20there?
00:17:21How
00:17:22many
00:17:23cases
00:17:24were
00:17:25there?
00:17:26How
00:17:27many
00:17:28cases
00:17:29were
00:17:30there?
00:17:31How
00:17:32many
00:17:33cases
00:17:34were
00:17:35there?
00:17:36How
00:17:37many
00:17:38cases
00:17:39were
00:17:40there?
00:17:41How
00:17:42many
00:17:43cases
00:17:44were
00:17:45there?
00:17:46How
00:17:47many
00:17:48cases
00:17:49were
00:17:50there?
00:17:51How
00:17:52many
00:17:53cases
00:17:54were
00:17:55there?
00:17:56How
00:17:57many
00:17:58cases
00:17:59were
00:18:00there?
00:18:01How
00:18:02many
00:18:03cases
00:18:04were
00:18:05there?
00:18:06How
00:18:07many
00:18:08cases
00:18:09were
00:18:10there?
00:18:11How
00:18:12many
00:18:13cases
00:18:14were
00:18:15there?
00:18:16How
00:18:17many
00:18:18cases
00:18:19were
00:18:20there?
00:18:21How
00:18:22many
00:18:23cases
00:18:24were
00:18:25there?
00:18:26How
00:18:27many
00:18:28cases
00:18:29were
00:18:30there?
00:18:31How
00:18:32many
00:18:33cases
00:18:34were
00:18:35there?
00:18:36How
00:18:37many
00:18:38cases
00:18:39were
00:18:40there?
00:18:41How
00:18:42many
00:18:43cases
00:18:44were
00:18:45there?
00:18:46How
00:18:47many
00:18:48cases
00:18:49were
00:18:50there?
00:18:51How
00:18:52many
00:18:53cases
00:18:54were
00:18:55there?
00:18:56How
00:18:57many
00:18:58cases
00:18:59were
00:19:00there?
00:19:01How
00:19:02many
00:19:03cases
00:19:04were
00:19:05there?
00:19:06How
00:19:07many
00:19:08cases
00:19:09were
00:19:10there?
00:19:11How
00:19:12many
00:19:13cases
00:19:14were
00:19:15there?
00:19:16How
00:19:17many
00:19:18cases
00:19:19were
00:19:20there?
00:19:21How
00:19:22many
00:19:23cases
00:19:24were
00:19:25there?
00:19:26How
00:19:27many
00:19:28cases
00:19:29were
00:19:30there?
00:19:31How
00:19:32many
00:19:33cases
00:19:34were
00:19:35there?
00:19:36How
00:19:37many
00:19:38cases
00:19:39were
00:19:40there?
00:19:41How
00:19:42many
00:19:43cases
00:19:44were
00:19:45there?
00:19:46How
00:19:47many
00:19:48cases
00:19:49were
00:19:50there?
00:19:51How
00:19:52many
00:19:53cases
00:19:54were
00:19:55there?
00:19:56How
00:19:57many
00:19:58cases
00:19:59were
00:20:00there?
00:20:01How
00:20:02many
00:20:03cases
00:20:04were
00:20:05there?
00:20:06How
00:20:07many
00:20:08cases
00:20:09were
00:20:10there?
00:20:11How
00:20:12many
00:20:13cases
00:20:14were
00:20:15there?
00:20:16How
00:20:17many
00:20:18cases
00:20:19were
00:20:20there?
00:20:21How
00:20:22many
00:20:23cases
00:20:24were
00:20:25there?
00:20:26How
00:20:27many
00:20:28cases
00:20:29were
00:20:30there?
00:20:31How
00:20:32many
00:20:33cases
00:20:34were
00:20:35there?
00:20:36How
00:20:37many
00:20:38cases
00:20:39were
00:20:40there?
00:20:41How
00:20:42many
00:20:43cases
00:20:44were
00:20:45there?
00:20:46How
00:20:47many
00:20:48cases
00:20:49were
00:20:50there?
00:20:51How
00:20:52many
00:20:53cases
00:20:54were
00:20:55there?
00:20:56How
00:20:57many
00:20:58cases
00:20:59were
00:21:00there?
00:21:01How
00:21:02many
00:21:03cases
00:21:04were
00:21:05there?
00:21:06How
00:21:07many
00:21:08cases
00:21:09were
00:21:10there?
00:21:11How
00:21:12many
00:21:13cases
00:21:14were
00:21:15there?
00:21:16How
00:21:17many
00:21:18cases
00:21:19were
00:21:20there?
00:21:21How
00:21:22many
00:21:23cases
00:21:24were
00:21:25there?
00:21:26How
00:21:27many
00:21:28cases
00:21:29were
00:21:30there?
00:21:31How
00:21:32many
00:21:33cases
00:21:34were
00:21:35there?
00:21:36How
00:21:37many
00:21:38cases
00:21:39were
00:21:40there?
00:21:41How
00:21:42many
00:21:43cases
00:21:44were
00:21:45there?
00:21:46How
00:21:47many
00:21:48cases
00:21:49were
00:21:50there?
00:21:51How
00:21:52many
00:21:53cases
00:21:54were
00:21:55there?
00:21:56What
00:21:57was
00:21:58the
00:21:59instruction
00:22:00asked
00:22:01to be
00:22:02done?
00:22:03It
00:22:04was
00:22:05not
00:22:06asked.
00:22:07And
00:22:08we said
00:22:09this is
00:22:11irritating
00:22:12because
00:22:13after
00:22:14the
00:22:15killings
00:22:16we
00:22:17will take
00:22:18them to
00:22:19investigation.
00:22:20There, we will look and see if what's happening is right.
00:22:24We investigated.
00:22:25We got evidence.
00:22:26We will give it to the prosecutor, the ombudsman, to see if our charge of murder is right.
00:22:33You know, some people really submit that their defense is okay because they fought.
00:22:40And look, we have letters of commendation.
00:22:44We even have an award because of the operation.
00:22:48We are really, really, not only did we commit the murder, but we celebrated the murder.
00:22:57In other cases, they will really point out the dead.
00:23:03They will say that the dead is a drug addict or drug pusher.
00:23:07They will sue afterwards for illegal possession or frustrated homicide, frustrated murder
00:23:17because of the fight.
00:23:18The person is already dead.
00:23:21I said, why are you filing a case?
00:23:24You know that it will be dismissed.
00:23:25Because here in the Philippines, no matter where, if someone is already dead, you can't sue.
00:23:29Maybe their point is, look, it's true that he's a drug addict.
00:23:34That's why we filed a case.
00:23:36But the protocols followed by the police are really wrong.
00:23:43Atty. Chrissy, when we made reports about the war on drugs in 2016-17,
00:23:49we saw two policies of the Dangerous Drugs Board.
00:23:53One is the Oakland Lawman.
00:23:55In other words, they will give a reward depending on the amount or the weight of the drug used.
00:24:02And then they will get extrajudicial confessions.
00:24:07They call it confessions and the drug watch list.
00:24:12So there is a policy that came out of the Dangerous Drugs Board
00:24:17that the leader is also the president.
00:24:20But it seems that it is the closest to establishing that it became a state policy.
00:24:26Oakland Lawman will give a reward.
00:24:29And the resolution on extracting confessions or profiling suspected drug pushers and users.
00:24:42Is that what you saw?
00:24:45We were also surprised that the Dangerous Drugs Board has such a policy.
00:24:51Actually, we were looking at that back then.
00:24:53Because that's the DDB in the Dangerous Drugs Board,
00:24:56the resolution that says there is a reward.
00:25:00At first, we didn't understand how to get money.
00:25:05Operation Lawman should have a budget.
00:25:10And that's what we haven't done yet.
00:25:12If you look at it, maybe there is a table of quads.
00:25:15Because it should be audited.
00:25:17However, the budget is small.
00:25:20It's like we looked at it before.
00:25:22The budget is small.
00:25:23And second, sometimes it's anonymous tip.
00:25:29So it's different to sign or say,
00:25:32we already gave 5 million for the tipsters.
00:25:36So it's also hard to trace.
00:25:39That's official.
00:25:40But what comes out, most of the rewards are unofficial
00:25:44or either under the table.
00:25:47Or the hybrid under the table, over the table is
00:25:51confidential funds or intelligence funds.
00:25:55It looks like it's untraceable and unauditable.
00:26:01Later on, we connected the dots.
00:26:05Maybe it's not public funds.
00:26:09Because there is POGO and there is drug trade
00:26:14where you can earn millions of pesos.
00:26:18Those are not public funds.
00:26:20At our point, that's one thing to explore.
00:26:25How much government money was used to finance this.
00:26:32Where did the money really come from?
00:26:35We said, this is hard.
00:26:37We are the ones explaining the war on drugs.
00:26:39We didn't do it.
00:26:41They should do it.
00:26:43Lastly, there is another protocol or another program,
00:26:48Masa Masid.
00:26:50Masa Masid, they talked about the dropbox.
00:26:54There is another station,
00:26:56Patay's station in Batasan.
00:26:59It's like a census.
00:27:02At the end, there is a cut-off portion.
00:27:04You will cut it off and return it to the police.
00:27:07I hereby certify that I am not or am a drug addict.
00:27:13Who are the other drug addicts in your house?
00:27:17And who are the other drug addicts in your area?
00:27:20All of these policies are consistent
00:27:24with what happened on the ground.
00:27:27And the Tokhang is as applied.
00:27:31I heard that former Senator Antonio Trillanes
00:27:36has issued a warrant of arrest,
00:27:40along with President Duterte,
00:27:42Senator Bato de la Rosa,
00:27:44former PNP Director General Albayalde,
00:27:49the head of NAPOLCOM,
00:27:51and the CIDG head at that time.
00:27:54Is this true?
00:27:55Do you really have a warrant of arrest
00:27:57coming from the ICC?
00:28:00It's hard to say.
00:28:03Actually, it cannot be disclosed.
00:28:08All proceedings or all updates
00:28:11regarding the investigation
00:28:13are to be kept confidential
00:28:15except if the ICC or the parties themselves choose to.
00:28:20And the parties, technically,
00:28:23regarding the warrant of arrest,
00:28:25first, the court will issue it.
00:28:28Second, it will give it to the countries
00:28:30to be executed.
00:28:32So, either the ICC or the Philippines
00:28:34can finally confirm that.
00:28:37But I believe Senator Trillanes
00:28:40regarding the summons
00:28:43to Duterte's warrant of arrest.
00:28:46We are more focused
00:28:48because the ICC itself said
00:28:50that issuing a warrant of arrest
00:28:53is a way to stop
00:28:55murder or any other crime
00:28:57that was committed
00:28:59in the incident in Russia.
00:29:04Here in Palestine,
00:29:07they requested a warrant of arrest.
00:29:11This is not bad news
00:29:13but it's also not good news.
00:29:16They requested a warrant of arrest
00:29:19and more than four months have passed.
00:29:23It's like they requested
00:29:25but they haven't issued it yet.
00:29:27There's a pending request
00:29:29from the court
00:29:31in the pretrial chamber.
00:29:33That's why I said
00:29:35we're not sure about the Philippines
00:29:38but we have a theory
00:29:40that it's not announced in the Philippines
00:29:43even the request for
00:29:45or the issuance of the warrant
00:29:47because the stages are
00:29:49you request for a warrant,
00:29:51a warrant is issued,
00:29:53and a warrant is implemented.
00:29:55Why was it announced
00:29:57from the poll?
00:29:59If you don't have a chance
00:30:01to execute the warrant.
00:30:03What they issued last time
00:30:05was the President of the country,
00:30:07Putin.
00:30:09Then later on,
00:30:11they requested
00:30:13but they haven't issued it yet.
00:30:15They also announced it.
00:30:17We said,
00:30:20it means
00:30:22they can't see
00:30:24that it's impossible to implement.
00:30:26The best news would be,
00:30:28hello, good morning,
00:30:30we have arrested Duterte
00:30:32through a warrant of arrest.
00:30:34If the Philippine government
00:30:36doesn't want to follow up
00:30:38or cooperate,
00:30:40Senator Trillanes mentioned
00:30:42that it's possible to implement
00:30:44through an inter-poll.
00:30:46Is that possible?
00:30:49Qualified, yes.
00:30:51The inter-poll is not
00:30:53a separate police entity.
00:30:57It's an organization
00:30:59of different police
00:31:01that you subscribe to it
00:31:03or you help within that network.
00:31:05Their primary agreement
00:31:07is to exchange information
00:31:09about internationally wanted persons.
00:31:11Blue notice,
00:31:13if you wait,
00:31:15red notice,
00:31:17the red notices
00:31:19are sent to different countries
00:31:21to lead agencies
00:31:23that are considered
00:31:25in the Philippines as NBI.
00:31:27The NBI will provide
00:31:29information about the accused.
00:31:31That's why we said
00:31:33the scenario,
00:31:35although it will be
00:31:37a political question,
00:31:39will President Marcos
00:31:41order the PNP or NBI
00:31:43because he will enter the scene,
00:31:46will President Marcos order
00:31:48the law enforcement agents
00:31:50to execute the warrant?
00:31:52Who are the law enforcement agents?
00:31:54We thought a lot.
00:31:56It can be the National Police,
00:31:58it can be a special team
00:32:00that is not part of DAVAU
00:32:02or didn't go to DAVAU
00:32:04because they said,
00:32:06what if the DAVAU death squad
00:32:08is the one who ordered
00:32:10to implement the warrant?
00:32:12That's why there are a lot of ways
00:32:14as we said,
00:32:16if you want, there are ways,
00:32:18if you don't want, there are reasons.
00:32:20We thought of a lot of ways.
00:32:22In fact, the reason to implement the warrant
00:32:24could also be in the form of
00:32:26a diplomatic request
00:32:28from a country
00:32:30to catch him
00:32:32because he's an internationally wanted criminal.
00:32:34We want justice to be served
00:32:36or we want due process
00:32:38to be observed.
00:32:41That's why we sent Duterte
00:32:43to Daheg,
00:32:45to investigate,
00:32:47to hear the evidence
00:32:49and to hear the testimony there.
00:32:51That's what was given by the summons
00:32:53like Senator Bato.
00:32:55What's the reason?
00:32:57Will they be the resource person
00:32:59or the accused?
00:33:01Technically,
00:33:03if it's just summons,
00:33:05it's like a resource person
00:33:07but this is at the point
00:33:10where it's like a subpoena
00:33:12when you're charged.
00:33:14You're still in the PI,
00:33:16you're still in the prosecutor.
00:33:18What will be sent to you is a subpoena
00:33:20or summons.
00:33:22The subpoena will tell you
00:33:24to explain yourself.
00:33:26That's how it is with the accused
00:33:28especially when they're being questioned
00:33:30by the ICC.
00:33:32What do you know?
00:33:34Well, it depends on you.
00:33:36But Senator De La Rosa
00:33:38because
00:33:40you're already there
00:33:42when you say
00:33:44this is what happened
00:33:46or you're evasive.
00:33:48It's possible that the summons
00:33:50will be a warrant of arrest
00:33:52because you'll be considered
00:33:54among the most responsible.
00:33:56As the Director General
00:33:58of the Philippine National Police
00:34:00when the Oplan Tokhang was launched
00:34:02it's clear that
00:34:04he was the most
00:34:07prominent or voice of the program
00:34:09but he refused.
00:34:11He said that what these groups
00:34:13do, Father Flavie
00:34:15and the lawyers who help the victims
00:34:17is just propaganda.
00:34:19I don't know about him
00:34:21he says almost everything.
00:34:23I said
00:34:25it's hard for me to understand
00:34:27Senator De La Rosa
00:34:29because either the logic is wrong
00:34:31or the fallacies
00:34:33are right
00:34:35but not on all fours.
00:34:37In terms of
00:34:39propaganda
00:34:41on one part, yes
00:34:43we are trying to win the hearts
00:34:45and the minds
00:34:47of the people
00:34:49that this is what really happened
00:34:51if you thought the war on drugs helped
00:34:53it didn't.
00:34:55It came at the expense of
00:34:57thousands of people's lives.
00:34:59To explain
00:35:01that it's not necessary
00:35:04for someone to die
00:35:06we need to make it clear
00:35:08that we are not against
00:35:10the war on drugs per se
00:35:12in fact, we don't like drugs
00:35:14we hate drugs as well
00:35:16but
00:35:18on the other hand
00:35:20it's true that there is propaganda
00:35:22but we are doing something
00:35:24he can't dismiss
00:35:26entirely as propaganda
00:35:28what we said
00:35:30because first, truth telling
00:35:33in fact, the truth commission has proposed
00:35:35there is a need to document
00:35:37what has happened in the past
00:35:39and currently still going on in the Philippines
00:35:41with regards to extrajudicial killings
00:35:43it will help
00:35:45in transitional justice mechanisms
00:35:47this transitional justice
00:35:49is like the migration of a country
00:35:51after a big conflict
00:35:53or like
00:35:55a great event
00:35:57like the time of Duterte
00:35:59where you are so tired
00:36:01you feel like everyone is going to die
00:36:03the way you breathe
00:36:05is one way to confront
00:36:07the pain of the past
00:36:09one, truth telling and documentation
00:36:11second, prosecution
00:36:13he can't say
00:36:15that the prosecution
00:36:17and assistance to the victims
00:36:19he can't say
00:36:21that Father Flavio
00:36:23and other groups like
00:36:25Rise Up for Life and for Rights
00:36:27and for us, we are their lawyers
00:36:30that didn't do anything
00:36:32because we are there
00:36:34for the burial
00:36:36for the issue of
00:36:38death certificate or autopsy
00:36:40or
00:36:42the living, qualified
00:36:44living in 2016-2017
00:36:46then the land expired
00:36:48in Nietzsche
00:36:50apartment type
00:36:52especially in apartment type
00:36:54then 5 years after
00:36:562022-2025
00:36:58we are there
00:37:00that's why it's unfair
00:37:02to dismiss entirely
00:37:04what we are doing as propaganda
00:37:06because at least
00:37:08we know
00:37:10that something happened
00:37:12or something wrong
00:37:14happened and we forced
00:37:16to correct it
00:37:18Banto, he wants
00:37:20to sweep under the rug
00:37:22to forget that it's not true
00:37:24one thing we can see
00:37:27there's no remorse
00:37:29on the part of the accused
00:37:31or the victims
00:37:33here in War on Drugs
00:37:35but on the part of the families
00:37:37how do they face it now?
00:37:39you said
00:37:41there's a healing process
00:37:43if there's a truth commission, I hope it can help
00:37:45but how do they
00:37:47prepare for the death
00:37:49of their family members
00:37:51and how to rise up again?
00:37:54Duterte and Bato
00:37:56have a strong heart
00:37:58that's like
00:38:00you don't matter
00:38:02but the victims
00:38:04realized and we realized
00:38:06that on one part
00:38:08you don't need them
00:38:10for healing but on the other part
00:38:12you need justice
00:38:14which is
00:38:16one phase of it is them being
00:38:18prosecuted
00:38:20as part of the healing
00:38:22but first, healing starts
00:38:24from the immediate
00:38:26I hope the families can go back to normal
00:38:28and that's our help
00:38:30to bury the family members
00:38:32to chase the children
00:38:34to go back to school
00:38:36usually, this is the problem
00:38:38the victim
00:38:40is a breadwinner
00:38:42that's why
00:38:44the wife and children
00:38:46don't need to do anything
00:38:48they have to adjust
00:38:51that's the new normal
00:38:53they have to adjust to the new normal
00:38:55that they don't have a parent or a husband
00:38:57that's why there are a lot of livelihood
00:38:59projects
00:39:01that need to be given
00:39:03to the victims
00:39:05and then another aspect is the psychological
00:39:07there are a lot of victims
00:39:09that say, time heals all wounds
00:39:11but no
00:39:13that's a lot of
00:39:15processing
00:39:17there are a lot of ways
00:39:19dealing with psychosocial trauma
00:39:21but as we said
00:39:23during the Quadcom
00:39:25Pinot, seven years
00:39:27eight years after the death
00:39:29and the victims were released
00:39:31the others were so afraid
00:39:33to go up because
00:39:35there's a police there
00:39:37or they can only see
00:39:39Patay, Lito Patay
00:39:41and Sinas
00:39:43and Albayalde
00:39:45the committee on human rights
00:39:48it's like the people are hearing
00:39:50what's going on
00:39:52it's a good thing
00:39:54we were given a chance
00:39:56to have a solo session
00:39:58the victims can freely talk
00:40:00but the change
00:40:02is that they can really talk
00:40:04because before
00:40:06there was a stigma
00:40:08if they say they were raped
00:40:10if they say
00:40:12they were on the drug list
00:40:14there are a lot of people
00:40:17who are Filipinos
00:40:19who are victims
00:40:21it's a good thing
00:40:23you were killed
00:40:25a lot of people hear that
00:40:27it's okay that you were killed
00:40:29so at least we can be quiet
00:40:31so you need to
00:40:33speak to the general public
00:40:35and then
00:40:37eventually when they
00:40:39can confront
00:40:41not only their fears
00:40:43but also their enemies
00:40:45it's like the generals
00:40:47are slowly confronting
00:40:49they're not desensitized
00:40:51but okay
00:40:53Albayalde is there
00:40:55I wasn't hurt
00:40:57so somehow
00:40:59you elevate the threshold
00:41:01of pain but their ultimate pain
00:41:03when they confront Duterte
00:41:05the problem is
00:41:07did he become cathartic
00:41:09or did he help?
00:41:11that's what you'll see
00:41:14it's like he was stabbed
00:41:16they're really angry
00:41:18because he was bragging
00:41:20he didn't say anything right
00:41:22it's like it's not enough
00:41:24especially with Bato
00:41:26he was telling
00:41:28his father and uncle
00:41:30he was like
00:41:32he was telling the story
00:41:34or he was justifying
00:41:36the killing of Kian
00:41:38his father was so angry
00:41:40it's like
00:41:42it's like
00:41:44throwback to 2016
00:41:462017, 2018
00:41:48you're still in the position
00:41:50that's why it's a big
00:41:52slap for the victims
00:41:54of the last senate investigation
00:41:56you said there's an acknowledgment
00:41:58that the government
00:42:00Bongbong Marcos and the Philippine National Police
00:42:02for the killings
00:42:04but during that time
00:42:06the war on drugs
00:42:08it's confusing
00:42:10is the police a protector
00:42:12or an assailant?
00:42:14are the victims of drugs
00:42:16are the drug users
00:42:18victims
00:42:20or are they like the villains
00:42:22or those with a grudge?
00:42:24these are also confusing
00:42:26our construct
00:42:28so now, after the
00:42:30quadcom hearings and in the senate
00:42:32what's your image
00:42:34of our police?
00:42:36criminal
00:42:38there are one big criminal syndicate
00:42:40Jovi Espinido said
00:42:42that he's retired
00:42:44it's really
00:42:46one big criminal syndicate
00:42:48because we said, what's the problem with them?
00:42:50don't they know?
00:42:52didn't they learn?
00:42:54although if your teacher is
00:42:56Duterte from PNPA
00:42:58you won't learn
00:43:00but apparently
00:43:02what we see, it was practice
00:43:04that's what they did
00:43:06that's what they said
00:43:08there's a common understanding
00:43:10the killings
00:43:12is not only a lucrative trade
00:43:14but it's also part of
00:43:16a systemic
00:43:18mercenary
00:43:20character of the PNP
00:43:22something like that
00:43:24the PNP can pay
00:43:26or the police
00:43:28whether they are on duty or off duty
00:43:30and that's because
00:43:32there's a system
00:43:34it's already done
00:43:36we said, how can you uproot that system?
00:43:40you know, you can look for
00:43:42some said, look for
00:43:44a killer, I'm looking for my classmates
00:43:46I'm looking for
00:43:48the police at the other station
00:43:50something like that
00:43:52to remove that
00:43:54I think it's cleansing
00:43:56in the ranks
00:43:58of the police you're facing
00:44:00of course, there's a lot of
00:44:02accused here
00:44:04in the killings
00:44:06but are you also facing
00:44:08let's not generalize
00:44:10because
00:44:12there are good
00:44:14and honest police, you've seen
00:44:16something like that
00:44:18yes, but I don't know
00:44:20because I might be wrong
00:44:22that's the thing
00:44:24but there's a lot
00:44:26even
00:44:28up to PNP chief
00:44:30there's a lot of good people
00:44:32you can talk to and they'll give you
00:44:34the data you need
00:44:36there are chief of police
00:44:38COP
00:44:40that somehow
00:44:42I didn't allow this
00:44:44I'm not saying
00:44:46there's nothing wrong
00:44:48that's being done to us
00:44:50and I don't remember
00:44:52this is what we can look for
00:44:54there are areas
00:44:56there are barangays
00:44:58there are areas
00:45:00where the chief
00:45:02will make the police happy
00:45:04we will follow
00:45:06the letter of Tokhang
00:45:08the policy
00:45:10and you will encourage them
00:45:12to surrender
00:45:14or you will catch them
00:45:16in the act
00:45:20that's possible
00:45:22in other areas, the EJ case is zero
00:45:24regarding the war on drugs
00:45:26but of course, at the same time
00:45:28because it's a system
00:45:30and the PNP chief is not
00:45:32just left in one place
00:45:34I mean, chief of police
00:45:36I don't know
00:45:38if the system will eventually
00:45:40catch up
00:45:42the biggest problem
00:45:44is
00:45:46I'm thinking about
00:45:48my feelings about the generals
00:45:50who resigned
00:45:52courtesy resignation
00:45:54and will be accepted by Marcos
00:45:56I hope it's okay
00:45:58but at the same time
00:46:00it's not okay because
00:46:02it's just a few generals
00:46:04the problem is
00:46:06it's a PO1 or patrolman
00:46:08that's why
00:46:10I don't know
00:46:12the solution here in the PNP
00:46:14I hope General Marbil
00:46:16can think of the right solution
00:46:18but definitely
00:46:20it's practice and the actions
00:46:22that's the problem of the police
00:46:24but you're referring to
00:46:26the cleansing operations
00:46:28where there's a committee
00:46:30where the generals are reviewed
00:46:32and there are voluntary resignations
00:46:34and those who were caught are accepted
00:46:36but what the people there said
00:46:38how about the questioning?
00:46:40should they just resign?
00:46:42or there's no need for a clear case?
00:46:44and there's a penalty
00:46:46true, we also said
00:46:48that the cleansing is not enough
00:46:50the quote-unquote cleansing
00:46:52that was done because
00:46:54they just resigned
00:46:56how about that?
00:46:58they didn't even investigate
00:47:00there's no prosecution
00:47:02that's why it's hard
00:47:04that's the problem
00:47:06maybe there's no one to leave the police
00:47:08you're not the only one
00:47:10who was caught in the illegal
00:47:12whether it's corruption
00:47:14or harassment
00:47:16yes, that's why
00:47:18I'm not sure if it's just the right 3
00:47:20out of the 3
00:47:22out of 18 generals
00:47:24or something of that number
00:47:26what do you expect them to do?
00:47:28because there's an acknowledgment
00:47:30that many were killed
00:47:32the Philippine National Police
00:47:34will open the door
00:47:36and the Congress will investigate
00:47:38and the Department of Justice
00:47:40will form a case
00:47:42what do you expect to happen?
00:47:44what do you want to see as a result?
00:47:46well, it's a whole thing
00:47:48first, I hope there will be an investigation
00:47:50and a case
00:47:52second, there will be a change in the police
00:47:54there will be a change in the protocol
00:47:56and to do that
00:47:58there needs to be a thorough review
00:48:00third, there will be a cleaning
00:48:02of the ranks
00:48:04whether they do it through education
00:48:06or
00:48:08as they used to say, retraining
00:48:10it's funny, what they did in retraining
00:48:12it's like a penalty
00:48:14it's not a punishment, it's a reassignment
00:48:16we said, hmm
00:48:18it's not in the range of penalties
00:48:20the range of penalties
00:48:22reprimand
00:48:24suspension until dismissal
00:48:26so let's see
00:48:28if there's something that can be removed from the service
00:48:30there will be a reduction in the pension
00:48:32there will be a reduction in bonuses
00:48:34etc
00:48:36and lastly
00:48:38there needs to be an
00:48:40admission
00:48:42that what they did and what happened was wrong
00:48:44the police needs to tell the truth
00:48:46in fact, in other countries
00:48:48the ones I mentioned
00:48:50transitional justice mechanisms
00:48:52one way to
00:48:54heal the wound
00:48:56is through truth commissions
00:48:58and there's a place
00:49:00in Colombia
00:49:02there's a hall
00:49:04you'll go there and you'll admit
00:49:06it's like a confession
00:49:08we're all Catholics, right?
00:49:10when you make a confession
00:49:12to the priest, you'll tell him
00:49:14all your sins
00:49:16there, after that
00:49:18there's no
00:49:20punishment
00:49:24but it's cathartic
00:49:26for people, just so it's
00:49:28on the record
00:49:30it could also work for the
00:49:32not the victims
00:49:34but the
00:49:36target of war on drugs
00:49:38the pushers will also admit
00:49:40I don't know if
00:49:42the drug lords will admit
00:49:44but that's one form of catharsis
00:49:46telling the truth
00:49:48there are also police who died
00:49:50in the war on drugs
00:49:52but what they're saying is
00:49:54if civilians died, there are also
00:49:56police who died
00:49:58should they also be included
00:50:00if there's a truth commission
00:50:02who died
00:50:04among the police?
00:50:06no, because
00:50:08I think that's the problem
00:50:10the police who died
00:50:12died in
00:50:14operations where
00:50:16there is a person dead
00:50:18in a police operation
00:50:20so the shooter also died
00:50:22except in one case which I remember
00:50:24to Jessica Dungog, the counselor
00:50:26the police were the first
00:50:28truthfully for them, they can also
00:50:30file a case if
00:50:32murder or homicide cases are applicable
00:50:34they can also
00:50:36investigate
00:50:38since they're the police
00:50:40they can arrange the investigation
00:50:42but ultimately
00:50:44I think
00:50:46it shouldn't be
00:50:48an excuse
00:50:50that a lot of police died
00:50:52or let's quit
00:50:54that won't be right
00:50:56because honestly
00:50:58the police
00:51:00always
00:51:02under threat
00:51:04or under the
00:51:06possibility that they will be killed
00:51:08in the operation
00:51:10but they're the ones with high-powered firearms
00:51:12or high-powered firearms
00:51:14so they accept that as part of the risks
00:51:16it's also not right for the police to die
00:51:18so the investigation should be
00:51:20well-organized or the operation should be well-organized
00:51:22but the death
00:51:24or the killing
00:51:26of them
00:51:28there's also a protocol
00:51:30the application
00:51:32should be right
00:51:34it shouldn't be that
00:51:36because someone died, it's okay
00:51:38let's just forget what happened
00:51:40it's not like that
00:51:42in fact, if the court will bring
00:51:44the case will be reversed
00:51:46the first one to present in a case
00:51:48that the person
00:51:50admitted that he was shot
00:51:52whether the police
00:51:54or the civilian
00:51:56was shot, he was shot
00:51:58you can admit that
00:52:00and the case will be reversed
00:52:02you will be the first one to present the defense
00:52:04you will say, well, I was shot
00:52:06but...
00:52:08you will present the element of self-defense
00:52:10or lawful performance
00:52:12of duty
00:52:14to the court
00:52:16that's what's important
00:52:18the regularity of the operation
00:52:20that they always explain
00:52:22now, Ms. Chrissy, they say
00:52:24that the political divisions
00:52:26are divided
00:52:28by UNITIN
00:52:30this investigation
00:52:32of war on drugs
00:52:34it means that because
00:52:36it's no longer PFF
00:52:38the field of President BBM
00:52:40and the field of
00:52:42the second president Sara Duterte
00:52:44and her father
00:52:46what do you see?
00:52:48is this all largely
00:52:50on the command
00:52:52of politics in this country?
00:52:54I don't want to say
00:52:56that it's just like that
00:52:58but it was one of the major reasons
00:53:00why these investigations
00:53:02and why this sudden shift
00:53:04in politics has come around
00:53:06in fact
00:53:08you won't be able to
00:53:10get out of our heads
00:53:12that's why there were investigations
00:53:14because there was a break-up
00:53:16and the two chased each other
00:53:18that's why
00:53:20for us, that's a very real
00:53:22consideration
00:53:24but
00:53:26we do not think of it
00:53:28as the only consideration
00:53:30there are
00:53:32polls, right?
00:53:34starting with the Filipino poll
00:53:36even if Duterte was supported
00:53:38even if they supported the war on drugs
00:53:40it was not allowed to have extrajudicial killings
00:53:42there was a poll
00:53:44do you believe that extrajudicial killings
00:53:46happened? yes
00:53:48do you fear that
00:53:50you will become victims
00:53:52of extrajudicial killings?
00:53:54generally, yes
00:53:56so there was a fear back then
00:53:58then later
00:54:00this is the ICC investigation
00:54:02there was a survey, do you support
00:54:04the ICC investigation?
00:54:06it seems that yes, we support
00:54:08the ICC investigation
00:54:10so the people, regardless of
00:54:12who's in power
00:54:14we see it as a favor to us
00:54:16the only question is
00:54:18how big
00:54:20are their feelings
00:54:22to act on it and pressure government
00:54:24to respond
00:54:26because in the middle of
00:54:28a severe crisis, sometimes you think
00:54:30that's true, the dead are pitiful
00:54:32but
00:54:34the price of rice is so expensive
00:54:36that's why
00:54:38it's how
00:54:40sometimes
00:54:42it's pitiful, honestly
00:54:44but on a large part, it's solidarity
00:54:46of the victims that the people feel
00:54:48the problem is
00:54:50you need to harness that
00:54:52and say yes
00:54:54above all politics, above
00:54:56whoever you voted for
00:54:58whoever you supported
00:55:00it's a favor to us
00:55:02the victims
00:55:04in the investigations
00:55:06in the Senate and Congress
00:55:08do you need transcripts of the hearings
00:55:10and the testimonies
00:55:12that are certified through copies?
00:55:14As of now, no
00:55:16because the ICC has already seen it
00:55:18they already know
00:55:20in terms of
00:55:22as regards information
00:55:24they know already
00:55:26we just need transcripts
00:55:28that are certified through copy
00:55:30in the trial
00:55:32to prove the
00:55:34authenticity, the truth of the statements
00:55:36and so forth
00:55:38later on
00:55:40so for now
00:55:42it's enough that the ICC knows
00:55:44that Duterte said this
00:55:46but later on
00:55:48in the trial, the question is
00:55:50is it true that he said this?
00:55:52are you sure?
00:55:54because it will be authenticated
00:55:56maybe it's a video
00:55:58that was spliced
00:56:00or you can also ask
00:56:02is what he said
00:56:04true?
00:56:06and that's where the defense will go
00:56:08maybe it's just a hoax
00:56:10but as we said,
00:56:12his statements are not a hoax
00:56:14even if he was given an answer
00:56:16his answers
00:56:18are a matter of defense
00:56:20and his admissions
00:56:22will already be
00:56:24considered by the court
00:56:26so you have to preserve evidence
00:56:28in short, even if it's later
00:56:30in the trial process
00:56:32so did you request to the Senate?
00:56:34because it seems like
00:56:36Senate President Chief Escudero
00:56:38needs to say
00:56:40what your request is for
00:56:42but I know that
00:56:44FOI requests should be purpose-blind
00:56:46yes
00:56:48they will also know
00:56:50that we requested
00:56:52copies of transcripts
00:56:54one for our records
00:56:56because we participated in the House
00:56:58and here in the Senate
00:57:00they also said that both of these records
00:57:02are public records
00:57:04and should be available to any citizen
00:57:06of the Philippines
00:57:08and second, of course, you will put there
00:57:10what purpose, for any legal purpose
00:57:12just for the NBI clearance
00:57:14for employment
00:57:16or any legal purpose
00:57:18my problem now
00:57:20is if President Duterte
00:57:22will face
00:57:24an investigation
00:57:26as you said,
00:57:28if there's a warrant of arrest
00:57:30this could turn really very political
00:57:32like trouble in the streets
00:57:34if that happens
00:57:36what do you think
00:57:38are the
00:57:40precautionary measures
00:57:42that can be done?
00:57:44well
00:57:46I can't say
00:57:48precautionary measures
00:57:50because it's hard
00:57:52to decide
00:57:54if you will arrest him
00:57:56or if you will contempt him
00:57:58what's really hard
00:58:00is
00:58:02we are reliant
00:58:04on Marcos' administration
00:58:06on what's his signal
00:58:08or what's his
00:58:10statement
00:58:12for now he said not to operate
00:58:14in the ICC
00:58:16now the signal we see is
00:58:18well, what if we file a case
00:58:20here in the Philippines
00:58:22which is welcome to some extent
00:58:24but again
00:58:26I hope the premise is right
00:58:28and not just because they don't want
00:58:30President Duterte or they want
00:58:32this to happen
00:58:34it's really to serve justice to the victims
00:58:36so we should reflect
00:58:38on who will get the evidence
00:58:40who are the witnesses
00:58:42who are the investigators
00:58:44that's crucial in the Senate
00:58:46because it's a matter
00:58:48for the credibility
00:58:50of the investigation
00:58:52and following
00:58:54the principles of justice
00:58:56we said it's obvious
00:58:58who will investigate
00:59:00on their own
00:59:02that is a violation already of principles of justice
00:59:04it's not just
00:59:06discretion
00:59:08or danger
00:59:10it's out there
00:59:12these are principles of justice
00:59:14and if there will be a case here
00:59:16in the Philippines
00:59:18will it start with the Bali Regional Trial Court?
00:59:20does that mean the process will be long
00:59:22until it goes up to the final and
00:59:24executory ruling of the Supreme Court?
00:59:26Yes, it can
00:59:28it can look like that
00:59:30either against Duterte or other
00:59:32lackeys
00:59:34but
00:59:36as regards
00:59:38if Crimes Against Humanity
00:59:40we have already filed
00:59:42a complaint
00:59:44in the ICC
00:59:46and they didn't
00:59:48as the victims
00:59:50they can dictate
00:59:52that you stay here in the Philippines
00:59:54and the investigation
00:59:56has already started
00:59:58what can happen
01:00:00is that the
01:00:02RA 9851
01:00:04has a reverse complementarity
01:00:06because the ICC
01:00:08will be the first
01:00:10to investigate
01:00:12on Crimes Against Humanity
01:00:14but other cases
01:00:16Duterte can investigate
01:00:18or the others involved
01:00:20won't it be hard
01:00:22for the NUPL lawyers
01:00:24to stick to the case?
01:00:26As we said
01:00:28honestly
01:00:30our motto is
01:00:32to push until we can
01:00:34so until we can
01:00:36until we are physically able
01:00:38and willing
01:00:40we will do this
01:00:42Atty. Chrissy, until when
01:00:44will you stick to these cases?
01:00:46You won't get tired?
01:00:48Well, if I get tired, I will rest
01:00:50we will push until we are able
01:00:52and willing
01:00:54because the victims are there
01:00:56and as Romeo Capulong
01:00:58the founder of NUPL said
01:01:00we have brave clients
01:01:02they deserve brave lawyers
01:01:04probably also brave citizens
01:01:06who can stand
01:01:08for them and by them
01:01:10and with them
01:01:12Atty. Chrissy, thank you very much
01:01:14I know you are very busy
01:01:16let's update
01:01:18Summons, Warrant of Arrest
01:01:20and
01:01:22Trial Investigation or Trial Proper
01:01:24Thank you very much
01:01:26Keep safe, Atty. Chrissy
01:01:28Thank you, have a good day
01:01:48Thank you for watching!