Inside Alex Cooper's $125 Million Deal To Grow Her Multi-Media Empire _ Forbes Cover Interview

Forbes

Podcast superstar Alex Cooper built a media empire in the streaming economy. In August, she inked a $125 million deal with legacy radio service SiriusXM to bring a new generation of fans to the aging satellite network. Now she has to deliver.  0:00 Introducing Alex Cooper 2:07 Evolution Of Call Her Daddy 8:36 Inside The Interview With VP Harris 12:19 Embodying The Call Her Daddy Persona 14:44 Negotiating The SiriusXM Deal 18:11 Advice For Negotiating Business Opportunities 20:04 How The 2024 Olympics Hosting Gig Became A Reality 21:52 The Vision For The Alex Cooper Brand In The Future 24:32 Advice To Aspiring Podcasters/Content Creators 25:38 Thoughts On Aging 27:08 Predictions For The Media Industry 28:26 Sweatpants Or Blazer?  Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexyork/2024/11/22/talk-aint-cheap-inside-alex-coopers-125-million-deal-to-grow-her-multi-media-empire/  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00I know I can walk into any single room in business and I can get the deal done.

00:04It's really just like my emotional EQ, like being confident and calm.

00:08That goes farther half of the time than what's actually coming out of your mouth.

00:16Alex Cooper, welcome to Forbes.

00:18Thank you so much for having me.

00:19I'm super excited to chat with you today.

00:21You've had a massive 2024, six years of Call Her Daddy,

00:24$125 million deal with SiriusXM,

00:27finishing your second live tour, going to Paris for the Olympics.

00:31It has been an insane past couple of months.

00:33How are you feeling?

00:34I'm feeling exactly where I should be.

00:37I think that whenever it's more chaos, I feel more at ease.

00:41When things are quiet and slow, I'm like, what's going on?

00:44I need to start doing something, so I feel really good.

00:47What has been the most exciting thing over the past year that you've been a part of?

00:51I definitely think that this new Sirius deal is really exciting

00:56just because anything that I do that allows me to give the daddy gang more content,

01:01I'm immediately like, yes, this is fabulous.

01:04A multi-year deal is something that's really exciting for me

01:07and most importantly, my audience, but I would also say my tour.

01:10I think being in person with my audience is something that I don't get to do

01:14as much as I would like to.

01:17Podcasting is a very isolating experience.

01:20You just press upload and you can go about your day.

01:22I remember in the beginning of Call Her Daddy,

01:24people used to be like, how does it feel?

01:26It's the number one show.

01:27I'd be like, it feels great.

01:29I went to the grocery store today after I did an episode,

01:32so it feels incredible to be in person physically with them

01:36and get to see what we've built as a brand.

01:38It's really exciting.

01:39Yeah, and to take that offline and seeing people face-to-face,

01:42I'm sure totally changes your relationship with your audience.

01:45It just makes me even more grateful because I think I see people writing in.

01:49I'm in my DMs every single day getting stories about women getting cheated on

01:53or struggling with a toxic relationship, and I'm messaging these people.

01:57But to get to meet them, there's one girl I remember

01:59that has been to almost every single live show,

02:01and I see her every single time.

02:03So it's a really exciting experience.

02:05Yeah.

02:06So let's go back a little bit.

02:07Six years ago when you started Call Her Daddy,

02:09it was a very different show than what it is now.

02:11You were talking about sex and relationships,

02:13your life as a 20-something-year-old girl to today

02:16where you're now interviewing people like the Vice President of the United States.

02:19That's a huge transition to make.

02:21Can you walk me through what the transition looked like for you

02:24and why you decided to kind of make that pivot into a different sort of format?

02:28I mean, when I first started Call Her Daddy,

02:30I had previously just gotten fired from my job.

02:34So I was pretty in a desperate situation.

02:38My parents were like,

02:39we're not, we can't afford to help you live in New York City.

02:42And I remember being like, okay, I just have to figure out what is my next move.

02:46And podcasting did not seem like the natural next move at the time

02:50and really no one was podcasting except some of the older generation.

02:54I felt like my dad listened to podcasts.

02:56And so when I first started Call Her Daddy,

02:59I was really just trying to replicate what had been happening in my college soccer locker room.

03:04Like I was the most outgoing in my locker room

03:07and my friends were always so fascinated by what I would talk about so openly

03:11just because that's how I was in my house and my parents raised me like that.

03:15So the genesis of Call Her Daddy was being authentically myself

03:19when I was 22, 23 years old, talking about my escapades in New York City.

03:24And I loved every second of it.

03:26But naturally, as I have gotten older and I'm growing up,

03:31I have different interests.

03:33And as much as I still like to talk about my sex and not dating life,

03:37because I'm married now, but married life,

03:39I also wanted to just change things because I am naturally a creator

03:43and I need to be creatively stimulated when I'm making content.

03:47And I think that the, not that it was a shtick,

03:50but like it kind of ran its course of only talking about sex and relationships,

03:54sex and relationships every single day.

03:56And the pivot was really just natural.

03:58Like I think a lot of people are like, was it strategic?

04:01Of course, everything I do is strategic when it comes to my business,

04:04but it also was natural at the same time.

04:06I didn't want to just keep talking about the same thing over and over.

04:09And then it just kept growing from there.

04:11Totally.

04:12What has the intention behind Call Her Daddy been like

04:15throughout these different phases of your career?

04:17I mean, like maybe once it was to just connect with people.

04:19Now you're having like very deep,

04:21insightful conversations about things like addiction, mental health,

04:24you know, across the board.

04:25How has the intention behind like what you're sharing with people changed

04:28over time?

04:29I mean, I think in an odd way it looks different,

04:31but it's always kind of been the same at the core.

04:33Like the beginning was,

04:35it felt like there was no one online for women talking so openly about sex

04:40and sexuality and embracing our sexuality.

04:42And men can have these conversations,

04:44but why can't we?

04:45And then I think as it progressed,

04:47I recognized how much people were enjoying me talking about things that

04:52weren't as spoken about publicly, maybe privately, but not as publicly.

04:56So I do think the natural progression was more of just like,

05:00oh, they just want more.

05:01So what else?

05:02And that was when I talked to people about getting into therapy and being

05:06open about my struggles and then having other people come on.

05:09I think it's been a really natural progression of just this show is meant

05:13to bring people together and it's meant to make people feel not alone in the

05:17things that all of us are dealing with.

05:19And it's just kind of like progressed layer by layer.

05:24And it hasn't really been this like very strategic,

05:27like on this year at this date, I'm going to talk about X.

05:30Like a lot of times there are topics that maybe I haven't even personally

05:34experienced, but I know someone else has.

05:36And so I want to bring them on because I know my listeners can relate.

05:38Turning that like love of empowering women and having conversations with

05:42women into a business is like a very, like you said,

05:45maybe it was strategic in some ways,

05:46but also like you just saw that there was like a need for it in the world.

05:49Can you talk to me a little bit about how you realize that this was something

05:52that could turn into something big?

05:54Like, you know, like you said, in your locker room at BU,

05:56you were just having conversations.

05:58So was there a moment that you feel like really flipped that switch in your

06:01mind of like, this is a business I can build for myself.

06:03I think it, yeah.

06:04I think it is all based in my audience.

06:07I think a lot of times creators are very focused on creating and they're

06:11happy when they see their numbers coming up.

06:13But I don't think that every creator has the intense relationship that I do

06:18with my audience. Like with the daddy gang, it is a two-way conversation.

06:22I remember someone randomly in business one time was like,

06:25don't ever listen to your audience.

06:27Then you'll just be playing whack-a-mole and oh, that's all I do.

06:30I listen to my audience every single day and that may make me crazy.

06:34And that makes me be on my phone all the time looking at these messages,

06:38but it's important for me to have my pulse on what's going on socially in

06:43pop culture and also just what young women are experiencing.

06:47I think when I started to recognize how much every single week people kept

06:52coming back desperate for information, like I've learned so much from my show.

06:56I'm also benefiting from it, right?

06:58I think that was the moment that I recognized that like,

07:00there's a lot of women that are not being served.

07:03And we as women are underserved in this country.

07:05I mean, look at what is going on in this country.

07:07We are still less than.

07:08So I think it was an obvious next step of how do we just continue to amplify for

07:13women.

07:14Then the business idea came up just continuing to push in ways that maybe at

07:18first it started as a show and then a brand and then a lifestyle.

07:21And now here we are.

07:22Totally.

07:23And I want to get into all that and like the importance of like diversifying

07:26and expanding in different ways.

07:27But I want to know first, before we talk about like how you've built it,

07:30has there been a moment in the past couple of years that has been your like,

07:33I made it moment?

07:34I feel like I keep having them.

07:36Yeah.

07:37I feel like,

07:38I feel like I remember the first time that I saw call her daddy at number one

07:43on the iTunes charts before I even signed with Spotify.

07:46And I was like, Whoa, like this is epic.

07:49Like younger me.

07:51I, I still can't really comprehend it.

07:53And then I think the moment of taking the show away from Barstool and signing

07:59with Spotify and having one of the biggest podcast deals ever.

08:03And being one of the few women at the top in that conversation.

08:07I, I hold that with great responsibility.

08:09So that was an, I made it moment of like, Whoa, yes,

08:13my bank account changed and that's cool.

08:15But like the brand itself so deserved that number next to it.

08:19And I remember so many women in the industry reaching out to me just like,

08:23yes, like I now know I can get myself a deal like that.

08:27And it was really exciting of how empowering that moment was for women.

08:30It like went beyond me.

08:32It transcended just Alex Cooper from Pennsylvania.

08:35I would say interviewing the vice president was, it was kind of a big one.

08:41Yeah.

08:42Seeing secret service and being like, Whoa, I, I didn't,

08:45I didn't picture that for myself.

08:47So I think I keep having these moments and I just try to stay as grounded as I

08:52can. And just, I'm very grateful for what I do.

08:54I'm aware I have one of the coolest jobs in the world,

08:56so I'm just prepared for like the next Whoa moment.

09:00Yeah.

09:01It just keeps getting better.

09:02Definitely.

09:03I want to talk about that vice president Harris interview with you a little

09:06bit. You for years have like sworn off politics on call her daddy.

09:09You said, go on Fox, go on CNN. Like this is not the show for you.

09:12Clearly you had an internet breaking episode come out recently with the vice

09:17president. I want to know a little bit about that.

09:19Why was this something that you felt was so important?

09:22How was the reaction online? That's been, you know,

09:24in some ways pretty divisive. How has that impacted you?

09:27Yeah. So I, yes,

09:29I have never wanted to have politicians on.

09:31And the first time I did anything quote unquote political on call her daddy

09:37was my episode covering the overturn of Robey Wade.

09:40And I remember when I decided to do that, it was,

09:44it really wasn't that hard of a decision at all.

09:47I understood that it is a political conversation,

09:50but really it should just be a human rights conversation.

09:52But I remember when I did that episode,

09:55I was nervous only because I knew people weren't expecting it from me.

10:00And I was really, really proud of that episode. And to this day,

10:03it's probably one of my most proud moments of something I've released for call

10:07her daddy that made a genuine impact.

10:09So when the vice president's team called, I was like, Oh my God,

10:14here we go. So they reached out to you. Yeah.

10:16They reached out to me and I recognize that maybe in a different election,

10:22it wouldn't be the case. And who knows in future elections, what I'll do,

10:25but this specific election,

10:26the entire focus is on women's bodies and we're losing rights by the day.

10:33And so to have the most popular female podcast where most women listen to this

10:40show in the country, it felt like a no brainer.

10:43Just like how as a woman, am I not going to do this?

10:45How am I going to look back at myself one day and say,

10:48if I have children and look back at this decision, I'm really proud I did it.

10:51Yeah. Um, the second half of your question about the backlash,

10:55listen, I knew it was going to come.

10:57I am very aware that my audience is very split and I again,

11:05take that with responsibility. I don't want to alienate people,

11:08but I did feel like I had a sense of sense of responsibility.

11:11So I kind of like didn't care when I pressed it.

11:16I kind of like didn't care when I pressed upload. I was like,

11:19not that I didn't care what people would think,

11:21but I knew there was going to be like cancel Alex and do all this.

11:24I have been doing this for long enough now that every time that happens,

11:29Matt always looks at me,

11:30my husband and we'll be like two weeks and I'm like two weeks,

11:33two weeks means two weeks and the internet will be so over whatever happens.

11:37And so, um, not to like not take it seriously,

11:40but I also think you have to have tough skin in this industry.

11:43Like people can say they're going to cancel me all day.

11:45They're still listening. So yeah. So it's been worth the,

11:49Oh, it was totally worth it. And you know what?

11:51It's like the noise always comes the negative and then it was overwhelming.

11:55The positivity I saw,

11:56like it was a lot of people coming forward and speaking up and thanking me.

12:02Um, and just, it also just created, I think a lot of conversation,

12:06which I was really proud of.

12:08I think a lot of people were having debates and conversations over the episode

12:12and that was exciting.

12:13Yeah. And that's kind of the point of a lot of media right now is to get people

12:16talking and get people engaging in one way or another.

12:19Something that you guys spoke about on that episode.

12:21And I want to talk about how this kind of relates to your own life is that not

12:24all women want to be made to feel humble all the time.

12:27And you as like a leader in both the media space,

12:30but also in business with, you know, record breaking deals, time after time,

12:34you have not had to be humble about your accomplishments.

12:37How has that sort of mentality impacted what you're building and how you kind

12:41of go about creating your career?

12:43There's still so much work I have to do because I can forward facing come off

12:46as very, very confident,

12:48but I'm still like inside that young girl that we all experienced of like the

12:53shame and the judgment. And as a woman, you're told to just like,

12:57just be quiet and like, just like know your place and like, don't upset anyone.

13:00And if there's a man in the room, like let him talk and like,

13:03don't like stand out. And I feel like through this show,

13:08I have gained confidence.

13:10Like I almost look back at when Caller Daddy started and a part of it was a

13:14persona that I was like embodying. And like, it's like when,

13:17when you go out with your girls and you're like,

13:19I'm going to be this version of myself tonight.

13:21Like I got to show up to work every single day as that best version.

13:25And I think it really transformed my confidence because I have not always been

13:29confident. And I think as time has gone on,

13:33I have been able to yes, recognize.

13:37It's probably better that I don't feel like I need to be humble as the vice

13:43president said, because what, why, why should I be humble?

13:47I'm so proud of myself and women should also,

13:49any step that you make in your career and your personal life forward,

13:53it is an achievement and you should celebrate that.

13:56And anyone that makes you feel wrong for that is trying to dim your light.

14:01Yeah. And so I've just kind of leaned in and I kind of,

14:04I'm having a great time.

14:05Yeah. How, cause you mentioned there that when you first started,

14:08it was like kind of a persona that you put on.

14:10How different is Alex, the podcaster versus Alex, the person?

14:13I'm more quiet. I talk all day for a living.

14:17So I would say when I get home, Matt's always like,

14:20she just wants a chicken Parmesan reality TV,

14:23a glass of whiskey and she wants to be quiet.

14:25Like I would say I'm,

14:27I turn off and I really, really like my alone time.

14:30I feel like on the podcast, I can't shut up,

14:33which is still a part of me. You know, I am a Leo.

14:36I can't stop talking,

14:37but I do have those down moments where I'm like,

14:39everybody leave me alone.

14:40I want to be alone for 24 hours and I'm going to lay in bed.

14:43I want to talk to you about this new deal that you've signed with Sirius XM.

14:47When you spoke with Forbes a couple of years ago,

14:49it was right when you had signed your $60 million deal with Spotify.

14:53Can you walk me through what this new negotiation process looked like?

14:56Why, what you were really even looking for in the first place and kind of how

14:59this partnership came to be? Oh my gosh.

15:02It's been a roller coaster because in the middle of all that,

15:05I was planning a tour and producing call her daddy. It's like getting married.

15:08Yes. Getting married. That's the,

15:10that's the fun thing about business is whenever something comes out,

15:14it's like, Oh, and by behind the scenes,

15:16I was doing 19 other things that some people haven't seen yet,

15:19or you've seen so far,

15:20but it was an incredible experience to recognize that the brand had only grown

15:27since being at Spotify and recognizing that this is a brand that is staying

15:33and here to stay. Um, when I recognized that my,

15:36obviously my deal was coming up,

15:38I think it was just having conversation with everyone on the market.

15:40Like every single player in Hollywood,

15:42I sat down with all of the executives and I just listened of like,

15:47why should I bring call her daddy to you?

15:50And it was a very powerful moment for me because I remember pre Spotify kind of

15:57not that I had to pitch myself,

15:59but I was really having to pitch like where the show was going.

16:01Like I was pitching,

16:02I was going to do these interviews when I first I was at Spotify and barely

16:05done any interviews. Right. So it was like,

16:07I was kind of pitching the dream.

16:09Now the dream is here and I'm kind of like being able to turn around and see

16:13like who wants to work with me, which is definitely really exciting.

16:17And I think any business owner,

16:19that's an exciting moment when the doors are just open now instead of me having

16:23to bang them down and be like, I trust me. Like, listen to me,

16:27it's going to be great. Um, so this time around it was more relaxed.

16:30I was kind of like showing up in my sweats.

16:35I did go to one business meeting my sweats cause I was coming from an

16:37interview, but it was a lot of conversations because the IP has grown so much

16:42in the unwell network.

16:43Now I have many shows that would be coming with me, um,

16:47that they would just be like helping sell their advertising.

16:50Obviously call her daddy is the motherlode of the deal. Um,

16:54but it was a lot of long conversations and a lot of just like what is going to

16:58be the right home for call her daddy.

16:59Was it the financial aspect that was ultimately like the deciding factor?

17:02Were there other parts of what these partnerships mean to you that really drew

17:05you to Sirius versus some other conversations you were having? Yeah.

17:08I mean, I think there were many, it was not just financial.

17:12If anything I knew the money would be there and it was more about like what

17:15other things are going to people be able to give to call her daddy and unwell

17:20that will help us grow.

17:21I think the longevity aspect of building a brand you want to partner that is

17:25invested in you. And I had that in Spotify.

17:28I think as business goes though,

17:30like sometimes you got to just switch it up.

17:32And I think with Sirius them offering radio and different type of talents

17:38support and they just have a vision for the next few years that in those

17:43meetings privately they were explaining to me a vision that I just couldn't

17:47turn down. And I think as a creator,

17:49when someone puts your creative at the forefront,

17:53that is a no brainer for me. Yeah.

17:55Do you,

17:56especially since you've built a whole brand off of empowering women and

17:59encouraging them to go after things that they want,

18:01finances are in some cases like a very touchy topic for a lot of women.

18:06Like you said, like in a board meeting, like, you know,

18:08women can be quiet and then can be the ones that speak up all those sorts of

18:11things. Do you have any advice in terms of negotiating either,

18:14whether that's like a deal, a business partnership, a salary increase?

18:18Do you have any advice for women and, you know,

18:20going into these experiences and, you know, these conversations?

18:23I would say number one, practice the conversation,

18:26whether it's like with your mom or your friend or anyone,

18:29like when you have something that you want to say,

18:32I'm always practicing before I go in because you don't want the thing you're

18:36leading with to be your nerves.

18:37And it is nerve wracking to go to someone in a position of power that is above

18:41you and be like, I think I deserve more. You could get turned down,

18:45but I think the way that you present yourself,

18:47half of business is the way that you're just presenting.

18:50Like I feel like I am now at a point in my career,

18:53which I feel really fortunate for because this is not how it started.

18:56Like I know I can walk into any single room in business and I can get the deal

19:00done. And half of it has nothing to do with my business IQ.

19:05It's really just like my emotional EQ.

19:08Like half the time I'm leading with EQ, not IQ,

19:10because that's what moves the needle.

19:12So I think practicing what you want to say to someone and how you are going to

19:16approach it and how you are being confident and calm,

19:19that goes farther half of the time than what's actually coming out of your

19:23mouth. So practice.

19:24And is that like in the mirror you're practicing?

19:26You can practice in the mirror.

19:27I would write down what you want to say.

19:29I always have notes. I get that from my mom. When I go to my mom's house,

19:32she's like, oh my God,

19:33I have these notes from when you were in college sophomore year on this date.

19:36You said this, like I learned from her, write everything down.

19:39So notes, do it in the mirror or to a friend or call someone,

19:42but practice it out loud. That helps though,

19:44because then the first time that you're projecting it to someone,

19:47you're like, oh, I've done this so many times.

19:49Now you get to practice like your swag and how you're sitting and is my leg

19:52cross and am I using my hands and am I making eye contact?

19:55That's how I go about it.

19:56Yeah, no, I love that. I want to talk,

19:58you mentioned your mom there.

19:59Your dad has also been a big part of your life,

20:01especially in growing up with him in the sports industry.

20:03And I want to touch on your Olympic partnership this year.

20:06You went to Paris for the Olympics, hosted your own show with them.

20:09Can you tell me a little bit about how that came to be and like how you felt

20:13as a former athlete coming back into the sports space?

20:16I felt incredible. It was a very full circle moment for me.

20:20I'm like pinching again.

20:22I continue to have these moments in my career where I'm like, oh my God,

20:26I feel like Alex would be freaking out right now because it's really cool.

20:29Like I grew up just hoping I could be at all a part of Hollywood.

20:34And now that I am in it, I take every day.

20:37Like I'm just very grateful.

20:39The Olympic situation was really fun because Matt and I,

20:42some days we'll just have brainstorm sessions where we're like,

20:45what do I want to do next?

20:46And what do you want to do next?

20:47And what like movie do you want to prove?

20:49I'm like, what should I do?

20:50And it was just one day that we were watching sports and Matt was like,

20:54I feel like no one really, really knows like how into sports you are.

20:59And I'm like, yeah, I guess I've never really flexed that part of myself

21:03on Call Her Daddy because that's not really like what Call Her Daddy is.

21:06And Matt ended up getting connected with someone that worked at the Olympics

21:10and then Molly Solomon who runs the entire Olympics was like,

21:13let's have a sit down.

21:14And I remember we went to brunch at the Peninsula in Los Angeles

21:18and I was like eating my eggs and she was pitching me the dream.

21:21And I was like, sign me up.

21:22Like where can I get involved?

21:24And from the minute that I signed up to the end,

21:27it was such an incredible experience working with a company like NBCU was fabulous.

21:34And I felt like it was fun to just try something different for myself.

21:38I am very competitive with myself.

21:41And so whenever I feel like I'm kind of like stagnant

21:44or I'm like doing the same thing over and over, I'm like, what's next?

21:47What am I doing?

21:48And the Olympics was that next thing.

21:49What is your vision for the future of Call Her Daddy?

21:51What is the vision for Alex Cooper the next couple of years?

21:54I mean, to grow but not to grow so rapidly.

21:59Like we have no interest in making this like a 200 person company

22:03where it's like overflowing and I don't want to sign 16 more creators this year.

22:08Like I'm not trying to be in the quantity business.

22:12It is about the quality business and premium content.

22:15I do see when you start a brand and it's so interesting

22:19because it's like I wish I had a documentary just following me around all day.

22:23But like the inception of Unwell, the Unwell Network and the company

22:27started on a piece of paper.

22:29And slowly I remember Matt and I on a Christmas break

22:32like drawing like how it would look and how it would flow.

22:35And to see now how it's already running, it's been a year and like a month truly

22:41that like Unwell has been like up and running for a year.

22:44We've done live events, sold out events, throwing parties in the Hamptons,

22:51throwing out the first pitch for the Boston Red Sox.

22:54That was a massive success like merchandise business that is thriving

22:59and making millions and millions of dollars.

23:01Like there's all these different parts to the business that are thriving.

23:04I think it's just to continue to rise all ships essentially

23:07when one person is thriving, the rest is thriving.

23:10Obviously, I know Call Her Daddy is that like mothership.

23:13And so there is a lot of pressure on me to keep it moving.

23:17But I love pressure.

23:19But it's just to keep growing.

23:20And I think, again, it's like film, TV, podcasting, live events.

23:26That is what we're focused on.

23:27How are you going about like staying relevant in the cultural zeitgeist?

23:31We've been talking about like just how fast this is changing,

23:33like trying to predict like is this someone with staying power?

23:36How are we going to keep moving forward?

23:38How are you going about making sure that that can happen for yourself?

23:40I mean, for myself, I think it's like a little bit of both.

23:42There's, yes, being aware that you need to stay relevant.

23:48But I also think the people that are just chasing relevancy 24-7,

23:52they don't actually have a core to like what is your brand?

23:55What do you actually stand for?

23:56So it's constantly checking in with the internet,

23:59but also knowing like you know what Call Her Daddy is.

24:01You know what to expect when you're listening to an episode.

24:04And so it's not going too far away from what I've built.

24:07But, of course, dipping into reality TV moments or, you know,

24:11TikTok moments that I'm like, oh, I want to have this person on

24:14because they're noisy right now and recognizing

24:16they may not be relevant in two more weeks.

24:19But if I get them on, it'll be great for the show and for the audience.

24:22It's a balance.

24:23Yeah.

24:24But not letting yourself get too caught up in it

24:26because you also stay relevant by having a great product.

24:28Definitely.

24:29And no one's going to keep listening if the product isn't great.

24:31For sure.

24:32What's your advice for up and coming podcasters

24:34or people who want to be a podcaster right now?

24:36Like, do you even advise people to enter the space

24:38given how much more saturated it is now compared to when you started?

24:42I absolutely would encourage people to –

24:45I think long form content at the end of the day

24:48is going to be something that everyone is almost forced to do

24:51if they want to have staying power in this industry.

24:53So I definitely think podcasting is the medium for that.

24:57I definitely think when anyone tries to tell you or pitch you

25:02what your show should be, just do the opposite.

25:05If too many people are copying people right now

25:08and you should have as much of an original idea as you possibly can,

25:12how can you stand out?

25:14Because that's how Call Her Daddy stood out in the beginning.

25:17It was so heavily edited.

25:18You don't even edit podcasts usually.

25:20I did.

25:21I was like, no, we're going to edit this thing so it's like a vlog.

25:24You have to find your niche within this huge community

25:27because it is oversaturated.

25:28Yeah.

25:29Being part of the under 30 community, you made the list a couple of years ago.

25:33What do you think being under 30 means to you?

25:36How does youth impact what you are building today?

25:39Oh, my God.

25:40A part of me feels like I'm 65, but I'm also still 14.

25:46I think that age is a very odd thing that I have come to not focus on much.

25:54I think I am very aware that I have done a lot in my 20s

26:00and entering my 30s, I'm now excited to continue to build and to grow.

26:05But I also think there are so many CEOs and billionaires

26:10that got their start at 40.

26:12So I think any advice I also have for young people listening

26:16is there is no date or time that if you didn't do it by then,

26:21it's not going to happen.

26:23Absolutely not.

26:24For me, when I was a kid, I thought it was going to happen.

26:26I'm like, I'm making these movies in my basement.

26:28Mom, why haven't I blown up on YouTube?

26:30For me, I was a failure in my brain that took me into my 20s.

26:34At 9 years old.

26:35Right, right.

26:36Why at 9 did I not pop off?

26:37What the heck?

26:38So I think age and youth, it's exciting, but I also am really enjoying aging.

26:45And I'm really enjoying growing as a person

26:47because I've never felt more sure of myself.

26:5022, 23-year-old Alex, I knew nothing compared to what I know now.

26:54So I think especially to women,

26:58aging is the most beautiful thing that you can do in life.

27:01Totally.

27:02Do you have any predictions for the future of the media

27:04and podcasting space in the next, let's say, one to three years?

27:07Oh, my gosh.

27:12I definitely think the premium creators and shows

27:17are going to probably rise even more.

27:20I don't know how much.

27:22I mean, this is too business oriented,

27:24but I don't know how much funding creators are going to get now

27:28in terms of if you don't have a loyal fan base,

27:32that you have an IP and you have a catalog to show.

27:35I think people are more hesitant to buy into shows

27:40and to give minimum guarantees.

27:42I think it's more going to be rep share splits

27:44until people can see your lasting power,

27:46which, again, is a very exciting thing for young creators.

27:51Don't be freaked out if they don't give you an MG

27:53and they're like, here's $200,000.

27:56If you're just doing a rep share,

27:58I think it's a great opportunity for you to have autonomy

28:00and control over your product

28:03and prove throughout you building your catalog

28:07that you have lasting power.

28:08And I always say to people, episode one,

28:11it's okay if it's not a massive hit,

28:12but the goal is by episode 50,

28:14someone goes back to episode one to listen

28:16because they found you somewhere along the way.

28:18Yeah, I love that.

28:19My last question for you,

28:20and by the way, I love that business answers.

28:23This is Forbes, give it to me.

28:24I know, I know.

28:25This is not a business question.

28:26What do you prefer, the sweatpants or the blazer?

28:28The sweatpants.

28:29Yeah, right?

28:30These are lightly unbuttoned on me.

28:32I need my elastic pants on at all times.

28:35I prefer the sweatpants,

28:36but I think some people are always like,

28:38why the sweatpants?

28:39One, I have been an athlete my whole life,

28:42so sweatpants were always a thing.

28:44But two, I think I never want,

28:46when I sit down with someone,

28:48their focal point to be like,

28:50oh my gosh, her makeup looks so nice

28:52and I'm feeling insecure today,

28:53or her outfit is so much cuter than mine.

28:55When I'm interviewing someone,

28:56it's not about me.

28:57It is about my subject

28:58and the person I'm sitting across from.

28:59And so I know people were like,

29:01I even saw people with the vice president interview

29:03being like, how dare she wear a hoodie?

29:06It's like, I'm not going to change for anyone.

29:09I'm going to do the exact call her daddy formula

29:11when anyone sits down in that chair,

29:14no matter who it is.

29:15And I was proud of myself

29:16for sticking to what I know works.

29:19Totally.

29:20It's the Alex Cooper brand.

29:21It's the Alex Cooper thing.

29:22Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

29:23This was awesome to chat.

29:25Thank you so much.

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