"Mark my words, no party can ignore LGBTQ+ rights in India," said NCP(SP) spokesperson Anish Gawande, as he opened up about his journey in a candid conversation with Brut.
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00:00I was scared that I would never be able to be in politics as an out gay man.
00:03You can't ask me such question when I'm from a Maharashtra based party, always Mumbai Jai Maharashtra.
00:07Welcome to the party office, welcome to the NCPSP.
00:09Funny being a gay politician in this country because there's not too many of us.
00:13Hi Brute India, this is Aneesh Kavande and I'm the national spokesperson for the NCPSP.
00:18At what age did you find out about your sexuality?
00:21So you know, I was born and brought up in Mumbai and grew up there, went to school in Mumbai
00:27and was in the closet throughout my time in school and went off to college to Columbia University in New York
00:33when I was 18 years old.
00:34At university, I was terrified that if I came out of the closet and went onto a dating app,
00:40my photo would be on the front page of the Times of India.
00:42Takes a bit of a megalomaniac to be in politics.
00:45And so I stayed in the closet there as well.
00:47And I went to, I remember I went to my college counsellor and said,
00:51I need your help staying in the closet.
00:53And she's my therapist even today.
00:55And back then she said, of course, we'll work on it.
00:59And of course, as these things go, I didn't really stay in the closet.
01:02I got an internship through a grant to work in Paris where I knew nobody and nobody knew me.
01:08And that's where I came out and there was no going back.
01:10That resulted in a pretty significant shift in gears.
01:13I was studying comparative literature because I thought that I would never come back to India
01:19because I was out now and couldn't work in politics anymore.
01:22And thought I would become a professor in the US.
01:24Little did I know that a few weeks before I graduated,
01:26I would get a phone call from Milindera, who used to be the South Mumbai MP at the time,
01:31to come and run his political campaign.
01:33And I said, I'm very out and in New York City.
01:35And his only response was, so?
01:38And with that, I came back to India.
01:39I worked on the 2019 Lok Sabha election campaigns for a year
01:43with the Mumbai Congress and the Maharashtra Congress
01:46and really sort of came out to colleagues, to people around me.
01:53And then finally, when Pinklist India started, to the country at large,
01:57through a Times of India article.
01:58So, you know, some of those fears did come true.
02:00But this time, I got to choose what photo I put on there and I got to decide the narrative.
02:04So, publicly, you came out in 2019 and that is when you started Pinklist India.
02:09So, that was the Pinklist India interview, was the one in the Times of India
02:13that had the headline,
02:14you're always told you can't be queer in Indian politics, that needs to change.
02:19Five years later, here's a queer person in Indian politics.
02:22Tell us about Pinklist India.
02:24You know, Pinklist India was created in 2019 by me and two others,
02:30Smriti Devra and Devina Bakshi,
02:32to catalogue which candidates standing for elections had supported LGBTQ plus rights.
02:37Because until then, we knew who were the homophobic politicians,
02:40but we didn't know who supported queerness, right?
02:42And who supported queer rights.
02:44So, in 2019, we started documenting every single Lok Sabha MP
02:49and every single statement they'd made on LGBTQ plus issues.
02:52The 17th Lok Sabha had 161 MPs who had spoken up on LGBTQ plus issues,
02:58out of which 116 had supported LGBTQ plus rights.
03:03The most recently elected Lok Sabha,
03:04which has a renewed and reinvigorated opposition bench,
03:07has around 110 MPs who have supported LGBTQ plus rights
03:11or spoken on LGBTQ plus rights in some way, shape or form.
03:14But I think what we're witnessing is a transformation
03:18in the ability and the willingness of politicians to engage with queerness.
03:22And that's a change that I'm proud to have seen in the last five years.
03:25And that's a change that we need to build upon in the years to come.
03:27I think what we're seeing today is a reinvention
03:32and sort of reinstating of progressive politics.
03:36We have now realised that a politics of hate,
03:41a politics of divisiveness, a rhetoric of sort of Hindu-Muslim,
03:45a rhetoric of caste versus caste is not going to help anybody.
03:49That's a rhetoric that has been rejected by the people of this country.
03:52It's a rhetoric that has been sort of rejected by the opposition.
03:56So, today we're witnessing a revived progressive politics across the country
04:01that's progressive on issues of religion, caste, gender and sexuality.
04:05So, all in all, we're seeing a new political imagination
04:09that ensures that young people, regardless of their identity,
04:12regardless of the backgrounds they come from,
04:14have an equal shot at success and have an equal shot of being who they are.
04:19And I really hope that we continue this momentum.
04:22Has it become easier for younger queer people to come out?
04:26A fair bit.
04:27Is it easy for young queer people to come out?
04:30Not really.
04:31We have to pave that path.
04:32We have to keep working harder.
04:34And we have to ensure that every young person in this country
04:37has a shot of success, has a shot at success,
04:39regardless of where they come from
04:41or regardless of what their sexual orientation or gender identity is.
04:45What is sexuality for you?
04:46Sexuality is an expression of yourself, right?
04:49It's about loving who you want to love.
04:52It's about being who you are.
04:54It's not something that should define you
04:55and it's certainly not something that should define how others see you.
04:59So, it's something deeply personal, yet deeply political.
05:02Because who we are, what we eat, what we wear is political.
05:06And what we do with that identity
05:08and how we ensure that that identity becomes the pivot
05:12through which we advocate for the inclusion and equality
05:16and well-being of everybody else is a political act.
05:19And that's where sexuality becomes something
05:21that is truly personal, but also deeply political.
05:24Has your sexuality ever been a point of contention
05:27when you were giving the designation of a spokesperson?
05:30Poof!
05:31You know, the funny part is,
05:32I don't think the party has ever asked me anything about my sexuality.
05:36When I was given the sort of role as national spokesperson
05:40for the party by Supriya Tai and Mr Pawar,
05:43the mandate was clear.
05:44To sort of represent to the party the best of your abilities
05:47and expand the party's ideological reach.
05:49But it's funny being a gay politician in this country
05:52because there's not too many of us.
05:53How you would want your position to advocate for queer people,
05:57not just in Maharashtra, but throughout India too?
05:59When I was coming out of the closet,
06:01I sort of stayed in the closet for many, many more years
06:05than I should have.
06:07Because I was scared that I would never be able to be in politics
06:10as an out gay man.
06:12Why?
06:13Because the reality is that Indian politics
06:15is not a very progressive space.
06:17It's not a very accepting space.
06:18And you have to fight to make space for yourself.
06:21And I think today, if there's anything that I'm proud of,
06:24it is that I've fought to make that space for myself.
06:27And I hope that it serves as an inspiration to others.
06:30There have been people who've walked this path before me.
06:32Disha Pinky Sheikh, who's a spokesperson
06:33for the Vanchit Bhauja Nagari, has done phenomenal work.
06:36Shabnam Mousi, who's a trans woman who was elected from Madhya Pradesh
06:41a while ago, has sort of paved the path for others as well.
06:45But I think today, as an out gay man in Indian politics,
06:48I want this to serve as a key study for young queer people like me,
06:52who thought that it's impossible to be out in politics.
06:55And to say that, hey, you can do it too.
06:57In the last manifesto, the CPIM, the Congress,
07:00NCP, Criminal and BGP, they had rights for transgenders.
07:05Politically, do you think that this is a significant movement
07:07that was in the 2024 manifesto?
07:10You know, the 2024 manifesto moment is a significant one.
07:14You've seen several political parties mention LGBTQ rights in their manifesto.
07:19My party, the NCPSP, has had an LGBTQ plus self for several years now.
07:23And we've had the most comprehensive set of promises
07:26on LGBTQ plus rights in our manifesto.
07:29What this needs to translate now is into action.
07:32My party, like others, need to implement the promises
07:35that they've made in their national manifestos
07:37at the state level, wherever they're in power.
07:39And I really hope that we do so in the months and years to come.
07:42But what we've really seen is a shifting of the needle.
07:46Five years ago, a couple of parties had the guts
07:49to put LGBTQ plus rights in their manifesto.
07:52Five years down, several more.
07:54Five years later, mark my words,
07:55no party will be able to ignore LGBTQ plus rights.
07:58And that's the move that we've made politically.
08:00And that's what we need to keep striving for and fighting for.
08:03Why should the youth, especially those who are going to vote
08:06for the first time, vote for NCP or its alliance?
08:08Because we're a party that promises things that young people care about.
08:13We're a party that's talking about climate change.
08:15We're a party that's talking about progressive causes.
08:17We're a party that's talking about unemployment
08:20and actually having a solution to the problem.
08:22So I think the Mahavikas Agahadi,
08:24which is fighting together in this election,
08:26has a group of leaders who know what young people want.
08:29And it's made up of young people.
08:31Please tell me, don't you want to vote for a party
08:33that gives chances to people who are as young as I am
08:36and gives them the chance to be national spokesperson?
08:39What change do you want in Maharashtra?
08:40I want the government to change.
08:42So that's the change I want to see in Maharashtra today.
08:44And we have to restore a political sort of discourse
08:47that doesn't focus on big promises and headline grabbing.
08:51We want a government that works for people, that takes action.
08:54Shut up and get to work.