Everything in contemporary artist Subodh Gupta’s work is about making home so permanent that there is no scope to forget. He is seeking redemption. That is why he is almost insistent about making ordinary bartans become something else. A Kafkaesque kind of transformation. Totally phantasmagoric and illusory and surreal. It is also terrifying and disturbing because there is a trajectory of loss. Like when Gregor Samsa in The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka wakes up one morning and turns into an insect. Alienation is the theme there and here.
We left home.
“We carry home inside us,” says Gupta.
At his retrospective at Bihar Museum called The Way Home curated by the director of the museum Anjani Singh, visitors see the familiar and ordinary mutate into things that are abstract and existential.
In these works, there is that urgency stopping that which corrodes away that makes Gupta cast his memory of ordinary objects in ordinary steel, a material that lasts for decades, a middle-class aspiration once. There would be no rust. Only the light that it would reflect. And only the ordinary has the potential to become extraordinary.
That’s how he is preserving what’s getting lost by the hour. That’s an emergency. Of loss. Trees, cars, motorbikes, buckets, tiffins, etc. Nothing so extinct yet but you know there will be that ending and you are at war against that eventuality.
There is poetry in everyday things. Language is never sufficient. To write about what you feel when you see the steel utensils stuck together to form a bouquet that he calls guchchha that emerges from a bucket is an exercise in futility. No language can contain home.
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#SubodhGupta #TheWayHome #ContemporaryArt #Art #Memory #BiharMuseum #PreservingIdentity #SteelSculptures #HomeAndBelonging
We left home.
“We carry home inside us,” says Gupta.
At his retrospective at Bihar Museum called The Way Home curated by the director of the museum Anjani Singh, visitors see the familiar and ordinary mutate into things that are abstract and existential.
In these works, there is that urgency stopping that which corrodes away that makes Gupta cast his memory of ordinary objects in ordinary steel, a material that lasts for decades, a middle-class aspiration once. There would be no rust. Only the light that it would reflect. And only the ordinary has the potential to become extraordinary.
That’s how he is preserving what’s getting lost by the hour. That’s an emergency. Of loss. Trees, cars, motorbikes, buckets, tiffins, etc. Nothing so extinct yet but you know there will be that ending and you are at war against that eventuality.
There is poetry in everyday things. Language is never sufficient. To write about what you feel when you see the steel utensils stuck together to form a bouquet that he calls guchchha that emerges from a bucket is an exercise in futility. No language can contain home.
Follow us:
Website: https://www.outlookindia.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Outlookindia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/outlookindia/
X: https://twitter.com/Outlookindia
Whatsapp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaNrF3v0AgWLA6OnJH0R
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutlookMagazine
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/outlookindia
#SubodhGupta #TheWayHome #ContemporaryArt #Art #Memory #BiharMuseum #PreservingIdentity #SteelSculptures #HomeAndBelonging
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CreativityTranscript
00:00:30Basically, I ran away from home and I went to Patna art school when I joined, I stayed
00:00:56in the hostel.
00:00:58And you still have friends there?
00:00:59We still have friends there, few of them and rest of them all over the world.
00:01:06I didn't have a single penny, so I have to survive.
00:01:10So, when I was in Patna hostel, art school, how I am going to eat food even I had a problem.
00:01:19Yeah.
00:01:20So, I had to go, I had a friend, Ravindra sir who was a writer.
00:01:24His family adopted me, I am like a family member.
00:01:28So, I used to go in their home every evening to have a meal.
00:01:37Hi, welcome to Outlook Talks, we are with Subodh Gupta and we just saw his exhibition
00:01:42The Way Home in Bihar Museum and Subodh ji is an old friend also and we are sitting in
00:01:47this studio kitchen which is a room made up of utensils, you know everywhere and these
00:01:53are all used utensils which kind of is his language also.
00:01:57So, we are here to talk to him about his journey, the concept of home and his language which
00:02:05is the humble bharatan that he has always kind of used and which is also a very brave
00:02:10thing to do that he has developed this language.
00:02:12Also, he has started cooking which long time ago he started but now 2-3 days ago he cooked
00:02:18a very good Japanese meal for us which we are still relishing.
00:02:22But Subodh ji, first of all tell us that your title is The Way Home, so why did you give
00:02:29this title and you went to Bihar, it was like your homecoming, it was a museum, there was
00:02:35a little familiarity, there was a little fear that you are going to Bihar.
00:02:38So, if you can talk about that, the objects that you selected also for that.
00:02:43The Way Home is a very old title of mine.
00:02:47In 1999, when I did my first exhibition and that exhibition takes place in Kemol Art Gallery
00:02:56in Mumbai and that was my first solo show in any commercial gallery in one way.
00:03:05So, I given the title that time The Way Home.
00:03:08That time.
00:03:09There was a work in that.
00:03:10Yes.
00:03:11For the first time, I used utensils in that exhibition.
00:03:22So, there was a stainless steel utensils and I made a lotus in the middle, the lotus and
00:03:31surrounded by stainless steel utensils and also I casted the country made revolver called
00:03:40Katta in Bihar.
00:03:42So, I casted those, also put on some of them plate and scattered all over, they created
00:03:48the installation on the floor.
00:03:50So, that was my first work with stainless steel, created that particular installation
00:03:56called The Way Home.
00:03:57The Way Home.
00:03:59And that time, I made it the lotus flower because this was national flower and also
00:04:08religious and political both.
00:04:10Completely.
00:04:11From that time and stainless steel utensils everybody was using.
00:04:17Every single person home you will see, middle class, upper middle class, lower middle class
00:04:24and Katta was in Bihar.
00:04:27It's like a kind of masala, like a herbs.
00:04:33Without that, you can't make vegetable.
00:04:35No, something like that.
00:04:37So, like everybody have a Katta in Bihar.
00:04:41Yeah.
00:04:42And I was a bit shocked.
00:04:43I was a bit shocked and then I thought, you know, I also need to make this particular
00:04:51item in my artwork.
00:04:53So, I did that and after so many years, after 30 years, when I'm having a show in Patna,
00:05:01I thought, oh my God, wish I could have that particular work to exhibit.
00:05:06Yeah.
00:05:07But since that artwork is already in collector place and not even in India, so it was very
00:05:12difficult for me to bring it back and install it.
00:05:15So, I thought, okay, title is still is mine.
00:05:18Yeah.
00:05:19And it's my work.
00:05:20Yeah.
00:05:21So, I must give the title at least.
00:05:22The Way Home.
00:05:23The Way Home.
00:05:24So, that's how I chose it, The Way Home.
00:05:25Okay.
00:05:26You know, because that Katta also came into prominence for the rest of the world.
00:05:28There's no dialogue in Gangs of Wasseypur.
00:05:30Yeah.
00:05:31Katta is like this small range thing.
00:05:35In Munger, they say there's a lot of gunpowder.
00:05:38Yeah, yeah.
00:05:39It's also about this Bihari thing.
00:05:40You know, there's a lot of innovation.
00:05:42You can make anything out of anything.
00:05:44The other thing I thought of asking you is that your work has a lot of elements of home.
00:05:49And you said once that when you used to live in Mayur Bihar and you were in the kitchen
00:05:54and in the afternoon, the sun was shining on the utensils.
00:05:57And that's how you discovered that this is the language, which was a very unusual language.
00:06:02When you are an artist, you are always struggling to find your own language.
00:06:07Yeah.
00:06:08So, when we were studying in Patna College, we had only two teachers.
00:06:15One was Brishas Bhattacharya and the other was Shyam Sharma.
00:06:18Shyam Sharma was a graphic teacher.
00:06:20Brishas Bhattacharya used to teach painting.
00:06:22And both were very good at painting in their own college.
00:06:27So, we used to quarrel with each other, with our friends, with our senior students.
00:06:32And the one who was doing a better job, I was better than him.
00:06:36I used to try to learn from him.
00:06:38Anyway, we learned how to paint.
00:06:42Yeah.
00:06:43We came to know that we can paint like this.
00:06:46Then we came to know the chemistry of the paint.
00:06:49But we didn't know what to paint.
00:06:52What to do.
00:06:54So, still, what we see, we painted.
00:06:57Yeah.
00:06:58So, when we saw a tea vendor, we painted a tea vendor.
00:07:00When we saw a rickshaw driver, we painted a rickshaw driver.
00:07:03When we saw someone standing on a bus stand, we painted him.
00:07:06So, I was also, day to day, capturing images in my painting.
00:07:11Dhobiwala.
00:07:12And that kind of image.
00:07:14If you see, even now, in a city like Delhi, a Dhobiwala irons in a corner.
00:07:21So, that image is still like your…
00:07:25It's far and it's close.
00:07:26It's far and it's close.
00:07:27And iron itself is a big object.
00:07:31The coal one.
00:07:32Yes.
00:07:33It's no less than a sculpture.
00:07:34So, all those images attract you as an object.
00:07:38So, you observe it.
00:07:40You observe it.
00:07:41And then I was doing all those.
00:07:43That was not a bad thing.
00:07:44I think I was in the right track.
00:07:46But still, so many artists doing the same thing.
00:07:50So many artists doing a similar kind of thing.
00:07:52So many artists painting.
00:07:54Abstract painting.
00:07:55Figurative painting.
00:07:56All kinds of painting.
00:07:57So, still you were struggling to find your path.
00:08:00Find your language.
00:08:01Find your path.
00:08:02Find your language.
00:08:03And then you're sitting with the friends.
00:08:05Everybody doing everything.
00:08:06So, you're a bit confused.
00:08:08Lost.
00:08:10Also, you did not study art history.
00:08:13Exactly.
00:08:14Because Patna art school never taught you art history.
00:08:17Because there were no teacher.
00:08:18Okay.
00:08:19So, we did the five years course in seven years.
00:08:23And without art history single classes.
00:08:25So, we don't know anything.
00:08:28Yeah.
00:08:29About history of art or anything.
00:08:31That was a really sad back.
00:08:33Like Baroda school at least.
00:08:36School they have it.
00:08:37Some Santini Ketan.
00:08:38They had some teacher.
00:08:40From the student from there.
00:08:42They know what they.
00:08:43And you never studied.
00:08:44We never studied.
00:08:45So, it was.
00:08:46And it's still sad back of Patna.
00:08:48Yeah.
00:08:49The saddest thing in 30 years.
00:08:50Patna art college gone backward.
00:08:52Not gone further.
00:08:53Further.
00:08:54Sorry to say that.
00:08:55It's a sad news.
00:08:56But it's true.
00:08:57But anyway, I'm coming to my work.
00:09:00So, it was.
00:09:01You were struggling.
00:09:02And when you painting.
00:09:04I was.
00:09:06I was quite good.
00:09:07In the sense.
00:09:10I was commercially as well good.
00:09:12Even then.
00:09:13Because I remember.
00:09:15When I was working with the gallery.
00:09:17They were my first gallery.
00:09:19They were selling my work.
00:09:21Then.
00:09:22So, I was quite happily doing my paintings.
00:09:25And happy.
00:09:26But.
00:09:29Somewhere you get stuck.
00:09:31Yeah.
00:09:32Okay.
00:09:33What I'm trying to say.
00:09:34What I'm trying to say.
00:09:35You try to change your artwork.
00:09:36So, whenever I try to change my artwork.
00:09:38I was very.
00:09:40Gone down.
00:09:41In the sense.
00:09:42I was not making good painting.
00:09:43Yeah.
00:09:44Because when you trying to change your language.
00:09:46It's very difficult.
00:09:47You might making crap.
00:09:49Yeah.
00:09:50Maybe I was making crap.
00:09:51Yeah.
00:09:52That time.
00:09:53So, I was made many bad painting too.
00:09:55Some of them painting.
00:09:56Still I see it.
00:09:57It's not so bad.
00:09:58But I was thinking that time.
00:09:59I'm making very bad.
00:10:00Yeah.
00:10:01So, yes.
00:10:02When I was in my kitchen.
00:10:03One afternoon.
00:10:04And.
00:10:05The light from the window.
00:10:06I was going to cook food.
00:10:08And saw the.
00:10:10All stainless steel utensils.
00:10:13And this shining material.
00:10:15The sun is shining.
00:10:16And somehow.
00:10:17You know.
00:10:18It's moving the sunlight.
00:10:20In your kitchen.
00:10:21It's quite.
00:10:23What call?
00:10:24Surreal.
00:10:25Surreal.
00:10:26And twilight.
00:10:27Kind of you know.
00:10:28Feeling.
00:10:29And.
00:10:30Then.
00:10:31Immediately.
00:10:32I've taken.
00:10:33All the utensils.
00:10:34And put in my drawing room.
00:10:35Oh.
00:10:36And.
00:10:37Yeah.
00:10:38Taken everything from the kitchen.
00:10:39And put in drawing room.
00:10:40And I said.
00:10:41Oh.
00:10:42This look like one of my work.
00:10:43Yeah.
00:10:44Now.
00:10:45And that's how.
00:10:46I started it.
00:10:47And that was the first installation.
00:10:48I made.
00:10:49And then you told me also.
00:10:50That you remembered your sister.
00:10:51That time.
00:10:52That utensil was exchanged.
00:10:53That utensil came at that time.
00:10:54Stainless steel.
00:10:55Yeah.
00:10:56About your childhood also.
00:10:57Yes.
00:10:58So.
00:10:59That time.
00:11:00And look.
00:11:01Stainless.
00:11:02Stainless utensils.
00:11:03Very shining.
00:11:04Very shining.
00:11:05Yeah.
00:11:06And resilient.
00:11:07You know.
00:11:08It doesn't get junk.
00:11:09It doesn't get junk.
00:11:10Very shining.
00:11:11And somehow.
00:11:12You know.
00:11:13People.
00:11:14Like to see.
00:11:15No.
00:11:16Also they say.
00:11:17Forged in steel.
00:11:18Yeah.
00:11:19Yeah.
00:11:20Yeah.
00:11:21Yeah.
00:11:22And also when you touch it.
00:11:23It's quite cold.
00:11:24Yeah.
00:11:25Very.
00:11:26And sometimes it's empty.
00:11:27So.
00:11:28All those thing was there.
00:11:29Yeah.
00:11:30But.
00:11:31Yes.
00:11:32But.
00:11:33When you.
00:11:34When are you making.
00:11:35With the utensil art.
00:11:36Yeah.
00:11:37You don't realize.
00:11:38Why it came to you.
00:11:39Exactly.
00:11:40Did you.
00:11:41Did really that sunlight.
00:11:42Only attracted you.
00:11:43Or.
00:11:44Or did the sunlight.
00:11:45Or something.
00:11:46Something else.
00:11:47But when I start doing it.
00:11:48After few years.
00:11:49I realized.
00:11:50Hey.
00:11:51This is my language.
00:11:52This is my language.
00:11:53And like you said.
00:11:54I remember.
00:11:55Then I go back.
00:11:56Flush back again.
00:11:57Yeah.
00:11:58I remember.
00:11:59In my childhood.
00:12:00I remember.
00:12:01My sister.
00:12:02The first time.
00:12:03Stainless steel utensil came.
00:12:04The scheme.
00:12:05The scheme.
00:12:06Then.
00:12:07Then there was a scheme.
00:12:08If you sell one of them.
00:12:09Set.
00:12:10Of kitchen set.
00:12:11You will get one set free.
00:12:12Yeah.
00:12:13Or two set.
00:12:14You will sell it.
00:12:15You will get one set free.
00:12:16That kind of a scheme.
00:12:17My sister.
00:12:18She was older.
00:12:19She was studying in college.
00:12:20Yeah.
00:12:21And she.
00:12:22She was young.
00:12:23And she liked to do it.
00:12:24And she sold one.
00:12:25And.
00:12:26We got one gift.
00:12:27A set free.
00:12:28A kitchen set.
00:12:29Stainless steel.
00:12:30So.
00:12:31That's our first stainless steel utensil came in our home.
00:12:34Oh.
00:12:35Yeah.
00:12:36And that time it was luxury item.
00:12:37That time.
00:12:38Very luxury item.
00:12:39Yeah.
00:12:40Yeah.
00:12:41The brass and copper was.
00:12:42Looked like very faded.
00:12:43And.
00:12:44Aluminium.
00:12:45Aluminium.
00:12:46Yeah.
00:12:47So.
00:12:48Those kind of memory come back to you.
00:12:49So.
00:12:50It's.
00:12:51It's.
00:12:52Somehow.
00:12:53It's like linked to you.
00:12:54Yeah.
00:12:55From childhood.
00:12:56Yeah.
00:12:57It doesn't come something.
00:12:58Just like.
00:12:59It's also knitted.
00:13:00Somewhere.
00:13:01Yeah.
00:13:02Interwoven.
00:13:03And other thing.
00:13:04Also you.
00:13:05Remember a lot.
00:13:06And.
00:13:07People say na.
00:13:08It's better to remember.
00:13:09A lot.
00:13:10Actually.
00:13:11Maybe sometimes it's traumatic also.
00:13:12It's sometimes very good also.
00:13:13But.
00:13:14You've not forgotten.
00:13:15Actually.
00:13:16Ki bartan kaise use hota hai.
00:13:17You've so many stories also.
00:13:18Khagol mein aap.
00:13:19Pehda huye.
00:13:20Toh usme.
00:13:21Kya.
00:13:22What did you remember from that place.
00:13:23So.
00:13:24Interesting story.
00:13:25Sun shape mein kaho.
00:13:26Nahi.
00:13:27Ache se kahe.
00:13:28How we remember is also.
00:13:29Such a beautiful thing.
00:13:30So.
00:13:31My gallery.
00:13:32It's called Gallery Continua.
00:13:33They have a space in.
00:13:34San Gimignano.
00:13:35In Italy.
00:13:36And.
00:13:37Interestingly.
00:13:38Many gallery.
00:13:39Often have a space.
00:13:40In very mega city.
00:13:41Like Milan.
00:13:42Yeah.
00:13:43Rome.
00:13:44But this gallery.
00:13:45Started from the small place.
00:13:46Called San Gimignano.
00:13:47Very touristic place.
00:13:48But very small place.
00:13:49And.
00:13:51So.
00:13:52This is about the gallery.
00:13:53Anyway.
00:13:54They have a gallery in San Gimignano.
00:13:55So.
00:13:56One day.
00:13:57I was.
00:13:58Sitting with my gallery guy.
00:13:59Lorenzo.
00:14:00And Lorenzo.
00:14:01Say.
00:14:02Come and visit my.
00:14:03Space in San Gimignano.
00:14:04So.
00:14:05We went to see this.
00:14:06He's a space.
00:14:07Interestingly.
00:14:08That's why.
00:14:09I remember.
00:14:10I remember.
00:14:11I remember.
00:14:12I remember.
00:14:13I remember.
00:14:14I remember.
00:14:15I remember.
00:14:16I remember.
00:14:17I remember.
00:14:18I remember.
00:14:19So.
00:14:20Interestingly.
00:14:21That whole space.
00:14:22Is gallery.
00:14:23Is cinema itself.
00:14:24Oh.
00:14:25So.
00:14:26Like old theatre.
00:14:27So.
00:14:28There is a stage.
00:14:29Where the people need to.
00:14:30Sit in the chair.
00:14:31He just remove the all the chair.
00:14:33Okay.
00:14:34And then you have the balcony.
00:14:35And all up.
00:14:36Anyway the both side balcony.
00:14:37Front is cinema.
00:14:39But he kept all empty.
00:14:40The space.
00:14:41And just exhibit piece of artwork.
00:14:43On the stage.
00:14:44On the balcony.
00:14:45On the.
00:14:46There.
00:14:47And where projector come.
00:14:49He made the office. So anybody, all the staff sitting with the computer, anybody come in the office and see them, they can see you who are come.
00:14:59Anyway, but they, he has a one room was closed and he says I have to give, show you some surprise. Then he opened that room.
00:15:09It's like really lots of nest and quite dusty room. And what was inside the room?
00:15:17Old projectors. Everything related to cinema was there. Trolley, reel, film, a small cottage and projector, everything was there.
00:15:30I said, wow, Lorenzo, you have a show. Yes, I am ready for show here now. And then I realized it's something very close to me.
00:15:42Because I also grew up cinema, watching cinema from childhood. And cinema exactly the way in Italy, it was exactly in our home too.
00:15:52Yeah. So, Nostrologia, what that time is somehow Italian, Indian cinema linked it. And here you go, Filmy to Satyajit Ray.
00:16:02It was like, yeah, you can see them together. And so I said there is always cinema I give in the theatre.
00:16:10And I casted every single object, what I found it interestingly. One, I kept it as original and one I casted in bronze.
00:16:19So, make it unique piece. So, you can't, yeah. So, that was the 2008, I did the show with them.
00:16:26I called there is always cinema. And yeah, so that's how coming, that work I able to make it.
00:16:35Because I have a cinema, my hometown, memory and everything. So, it was quite linked together.
00:16:42Also, because this whole thing is also very interesting, like you know the question that is always on top of our minds
00:16:49and we are always looking for an answer is how do we remember, right? What do we remember? And how we filter it out?
00:16:54So, your story about growing up in Danapur, theatre, aapki mummy leke jaati thi, you know, like we've all been through that, right?
00:17:02Yeah, yeah. But the way you remembered as an artist, very different because you started to cast your memories into steel maybe or bronze.
00:17:08Toh wo aap thora pata sakte hain. Very interestingly, when I pass out from the college, school basically,
00:17:18I went to the normal college. I went to B.N. College. And B.N. College in Patna University,
00:17:25I taken the principle in this psychology and history. I don't know what I was doing. I taken the subject and okay.
00:17:35So, I started studying there. But due to I was absent a lot in class, the principal did not promote me.
00:17:42Why were you absent? Because in the morning, 7.30 bus used to come to take us. And that time I was still sleeping.
00:17:50So, yeah, I was a bad student anyway. So, principal did not promote me. So, I had to again one year study.
00:18:01I intermediate only. In between, I was doing, start joining theatre group. My small theatre group in my hometown.
00:18:10And then I got so much involved with them. I thought this is my life. And I taken it very seriously of my theatre.
00:18:17I did 5 years theatre. And I travelled to Jamsherpur. But wo theatre group jo aapka gaon mein tha unhi ke saath?
00:18:25Toh koi ghar mein nahi bola ki tum kya kar rahe ho. Jaise Bihar mein nahi ho, doctor, engineer bano ya UPSC karo.
00:18:31Because, yes of course. Lekin due to my father pass away, my elder brother had a responsibility to run the home.
00:18:42I was youngest in three. Two brother and three sister. I was youngest one. So, I had a opportunity to sneak away.
00:18:51Yeah. And observe. And also, I only realise now, I don't have a childhood photograph.
00:18:58Because I have a brother, my brother, sister, everyone have a children photograph. Except me.
00:19:03Because they have forgotten about me. Look like. You know, ki achha yeh toh sahi hai.
00:19:07Koi aagaya. Aagaya. So, I don't have a childhood picture. Can you imagine? So, hardly.
00:19:15So, what I am trying to say ki, family was there but they were struggling in their own. In their own ways.
00:19:22Yeah. Own problem. They are struggling to survive. Yeah. They are struggling. My sister need to get married.
00:19:29No? The social structure. So, woh bhi karna hai. Woh bhi karna hai. Bhai sahab ko, behan ki shaadi bhi karna hai.
00:19:36So, they were busy with their own stuff. So, I sneak away. You were left alone.
00:19:40Sneak away and I was doing my own things. So, that's helped me to, I think, become an artist.
00:19:45Yeah. Because that time it would be. Yeah. And, yeah. So, I basically, I run away from home.
00:19:52Yeah. And I went Patna artist school. When I joined, I stayed in the hostel.
00:19:57Achha. And you still have friends there. You still have friends there. Few of them. Yeah.
00:20:04And rest of them all over the world. Yeah. Yeah. No, because I realized that you also talked about, you know, how you worked at a newspaper also.
00:20:11Yeah. Phir waha, aapne woh job kisi aur ko karke, aap waha se bhaag gaye. Phir gateway banaya, medical sign ka, medical student ka sign.
00:20:19Maine bahut kuch kiya. Bahut kuch kiya. So, because no matter what I was doing it. You were not satisfied.
00:20:24No, I didn't have a money. Haan. I didn't have a single penny. So, I have to survive. Yeah.
00:20:30So, when I was in Patna hostel, artist school, how I am going to eat food even I had a problem. Yeah.
00:20:39No? So, I have to go to, I had a friend, Robin sir, who is director, writer the. Haan. Unke ghar pe family, they adopted me like a family member.
00:20:48So, I used to go in their home every evening to have a meal almost. Haan. Yeah. And, so, it was interesting.
00:20:57Somehow I used to manage. No? So, like one day somebody will come and say, can you make a book jacket for me? Haan.
00:21:05For avaran, mere kitab ka avaran banate. Banate chahiye. Toh main bana dunga jee, 150 rupee lagenge.
00:21:10So, they used to give me 150 rupees. 150 rupees, enough for me to survive for a week. Yeah. So, it was like this.
00:21:17And something I used to do. So, Patna mein gypsy theatre aaya, Russian gypsy theatre aaya. That time the Bihar government
00:21:23wanted to do some gate and design karna hai. I said ki, sir, main 5000 mein bana dunga aapka gate.
00:21:29So, I used to do this kind of thing. So, and I used to get job. I had a fun life. Somehow I was lucky to get job, this kind of job.
00:21:36Yeah. And I do it and I buy one drink for all hostel friends and they say, come on, let's do it together.
00:21:43And we all used to do it together and we finish the works. And that's how we used to survive.
00:21:50One day, Times of India and Nawab Times came Patna. Haan, Fraser Road pe. Yeah, Fraser Road pe.
00:21:56And when these arrived, somebody said ki, waha pe toh graphic artist ka job khaali hai. Haan.
00:22:00Toh humne kaha, apply kar deta ho yaar, apply. Toh kaise apply karun, toh ek din gaya main.
00:22:05Toh waha pe Nawab Times ke editor the Dinanath Mishra. So, main unse gaya milne.
00:22:14Toh Dinanath Mishra was a smoking lot. He smoked lot, yeah. And he was smoking lot.
00:22:21And he said ki, hmm, bag mein tumhare kya hai? Haan. Hum ki mere bag mein kya hai tumko?
00:22:26Isse matlam, humne socha main. But still iske bag mein tumhare kya hai? Iske book hai.
00:22:32He said ki, leave the bag here and come and collect next day.
00:22:36Hum ki, what kind of person is he? Toh mera bag bhi le lega. Mera bag le lega.
00:22:40Anyway, that time I had a nothing, no money, nothing. Take my bag, big deal.
00:22:44Next day I went, he gave me job. Basically, he was interesting person.
00:22:49You can recognize the person with their bag. Yeah, actually. What they have inside.
00:22:53And that time Dinanath Mishra has taken my bag, no? He says study in psychology.
00:22:57So, he find only a sketch book and drawing. So, he knew ki, who am I?
00:23:01So, he given me job. And I took the job. Thousand rupees per month only.
00:23:07Not much. For me, enough. I used to bicycle. And interesting thing, newspaper, everything
00:23:15I start in the evening only, right? Toh 7, 8 o'clock, 6 bhaji toh school band ho jaati thi.
00:23:20College band ho jaati thi. The evening I can go. 7 o'clock I used to do bicycle,
00:23:24go Fraser Road. Park my bike and upar jaake, phir 10 bhaji, raat ke baad toh kaam suru hota tha.
00:23:31Jab tak toh story aate rehta hai. Khat pat, khat pat, phir story aana suru hua.
00:23:35Peh page design ho gaya, usse cutting paste hota tha. Kuraane zamani ka chustu.
00:23:38Toh raat par chal raha hai, ek wajah tak. Uske baad nikal do.
00:23:41So, that's how I used to do it. But, after one year I realized, oh my God,
00:23:47it's getting serious here. But this is not for me. It's enough.
00:23:54But you had clarity, that's why.
00:23:56Okay, enough. This is going to be my life. No, this is life I don't want to lead.
00:24:03So, did you know at that time ki kya zindagi chahiye tha?
00:24:07Somehow I knew ki jo kya zindagi chahiye tha nahi tha, wo mujhe nahi pata tha,
00:24:14kya chahiye mujhe. Itna pata tha ki yeh nahi chahiye mujhe.
00:24:17Toh I said, you know, this has to stop right now.
00:24:22So, I went one day, sir ki, resignation. He said ki, no.
00:24:27You can't resign unless you give someone. So, I come in my room and
00:24:32anybody need a job? And my one friend's roommate said ki, yes.
00:24:36Okay, let's go. So, he got the job. And he's just retired now from newspaper.
00:24:41Oh, he continued with that job?
00:24:43He continued with the job. Not in Patna only, he worked in Delhi.
00:24:49So, now I realize, imagine, I was doing the same thing.
00:24:54And he would have retired also now.
00:24:56Yeah, retired now as a graphic artist. So, yeah, so that clarity was there.
00:25:00So, that's how I survived. But I learned a lot. Those theater, those newspaper, everything.
00:25:07When you're making art, art also teach you everyday. So, you not understand what I'm going to do today,
00:25:13but what I'm going to do tomorrow. But everyday learning is something you're learning.
00:25:17And when I start traveling abroad, when I start looking the art world outside the world,
00:25:25then I realize, you know what, you have to go back to your root.
00:25:30Exactly.
00:25:31To do something original.
00:25:33And was it scary to go back? Because there are so many losses also.
00:25:37It was not scary, but it's become more interestingly, because I do have a root.
00:25:43And I do see things from my childhood to now. I have so many things to express.
00:25:48So, why not I do that? And let's do that. And that's how I made My Mother and Me,
00:25:53with the cow dung cake and the room. That's how I made many artworks.
00:25:58So, no, I went back to my root and I start digging my root and I start bringing to contemporary aspects.
00:26:06And I made so many installations and artworks. And still I do the same thing.
00:26:10Same thing. And also another thing is that, you know, when you come into this contemporary art world,
00:26:14from a certain place, from a certain background, it's very difficult because people don't believe in you.
00:26:19But you were quite clear that this is my language, we will go ahead with this.
00:26:23Or to take the old utensils, I mean, you know, there's a very interesting aspect to that language.
00:26:30So, when I made the first time cow dung cake installation, so they were very, everybody said, what are you doing?
00:26:38Yeah, exactly. So, it didn't shake your confidence that time?
00:26:41I wanted to do something different.
00:26:46I wanted to do something different. And also, the Japan Foundation wanted to bring me that work to Japan.
00:26:53And we had a six month correspondence about the cow dung cake, how to bring to Japan.
00:26:57Yeah, because it's cow dung.
00:26:58But the Japan government did not allow it because shit is shit.
00:27:02Cow shit, cat shit or whatever, no dog shit. But somehow cow shit is our holy shit.
00:27:09Yeah.
00:27:10So, interestingly…
00:27:11How do you explain to the Japanese government?
00:27:13Yeah. So, anyway, so it did not happen, but they invited me for residency and I went there.
00:27:18Did one month residency in 1999 in Fukuoka Art Museum in Japan and had a great time a lot.
00:27:25And so, to travel outside of India also opened my mind.
00:27:31Yeah, that is true.
00:27:32Also, in the beginning, they also invited me to give the project, give the scholarship.
00:27:40In 1997, I did the first residency in London, gasworks residency.
00:27:48So, three months residency in gasworks in London, that's helped me to understand.
00:27:53And then 1999 Fukuoka, then 1997 again, I was invited, Bospasia award, I got it.
00:28:04So, solo show in New York. So, that's how internationally somehow picked up.
00:28:10And in 2000…
00:28:14Which was that story where you did that show and, you know, with, I think, Shireen, if I remember correctly.
00:28:21And then you said ki, koi kharidega, itna toh dedo mera paisa ki mera bartan kharidega.
00:28:26The Way Home.
00:28:27The Way Home.
00:28:28The Way Home, first in relation when I did the Shireen Gandhi in Kerala Art Gallery.
00:28:32And that was, we kept it at one lakh rupees something price of the artwork.
00:28:3975,000 rupees.
00:28:4075,000 rupees and CC was too expensive for both. Who's going to buy this?
00:28:45Keep it 25,000 rupees. I'm ki, how can I keep 25,000?
00:28:49Katta cast karne mujhe 7-8,000 lagya.
00:28:55And mera toh train ka bhaara, yahan rehna, no?
00:28:59So, that time I used to go by train too.
00:29:02Can't afford anything else.
00:29:04No, because you have…
00:29:05I used to stay in Salvation Army in Bombay.
00:29:07The Colaba wala na, abhi bhi hai.
00:29:09Abhi bhi hai. Hum bhi gaye the ek din rehne ke liye.
00:29:12So, I stayed there.
00:29:13Nahi, and you also had this keen observation sense which very few people have in the sense
00:29:17jo aapka transit wala installation hai, jo trolleys hai.
00:29:21And you talked about how you observed these workers, kyunka gathri mein aakhir hota kya hai.
00:29:26And, you know, that one journey you said ki Qatar se plane khaali ho jata tha.
00:29:30Phir wahan se aap yaha aate the toh.
00:29:32So, dekho, curiosity toh hum sabko hoti hai bahar jaane ki.
00:29:35But bahut naam isko sunta nahi hai.
00:29:37Us.
00:29:38No, when I was in art school, I was studying.
00:29:40Hum log mein competition toh ki sabse phale bidesh kaun jaayega?
00:29:43Hum log mein se.
00:29:44So, we used to dream about it.
00:29:46Every time, no?
00:29:47Ki who will go foreign?
00:29:48How do we go foreign?
00:29:49And really, we were able to go foreign.
00:29:51Really, we will sit in the plane.
00:29:53We can drive there.
00:29:54All kind of dream catches, we discuss, we enjoy.
00:29:57We do all kind of thing.
00:29:59So, but also is a fairy tale story, Saath Samundar Paar.
00:30:02Haan.
00:30:03No?
00:30:04Toh kahaani toh Saath Samundar…
00:30:05Bachpan se aap sunta hai.
00:30:06Haan, sun rahe ho ki jaayenge bidesh.
00:30:07Haan, Saath Samundar Paar.
00:30:09So, when I went there.
00:30:12Aur jab, like I said ki that time you are looking for a very cheap ticket.
00:30:16Yeah.
00:30:17Going to abroad.
00:30:18And so, still you get 24,000, 25,000 mein.
00:30:22We used to get ticket.
00:30:23Haan.
00:30:24Via Dubai, via…
00:30:25Qatar, via this, via that.
00:30:26Yeah, yeah.
00:30:27So, I used to take that and go.
00:30:29And when I coming back, you suddenly will see the whole plane is empty.
00:30:33Haan.
00:30:34And you say, what happened?
00:30:35Haan.
00:30:36And suddenly within a 10 minutes, full.
00:30:39Hmm.
00:30:40Who are these people sitting next to you?
00:30:42Hmm.
00:30:43They are own people.
00:30:44Yeah.
00:30:45They are my people.
00:30:46They come from my country.
00:30:47And these people, when you start speaking to them, some of them tailor, some of them
00:30:53driver, some of them doing some kind of job, all they came here to work for two years,
00:31:00one year.
00:31:01Hmm.
00:31:02And they going back home.
00:31:03Yeah.
00:31:04And they carried, when you arrive in Delhi airport, in the…
00:31:09Conveyor belt.
00:31:10Conveyor belt.
00:31:11You see those luggage.
00:31:12I thought ki very fascinating luggage.
00:31:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:16I mean, what excited me, how they tidying up this, that is…
00:31:22So, I start taking photograph.
00:31:24Haan.
00:31:25And I start making painting of those series as well.
00:31:27Hmm.
00:31:28Somehow, I was start getting so close to that.
00:31:31So close to that.
00:31:32Haan.
00:31:33And the way they tied their bundles is so, better than sometime, any bundle can be fail.
00:31:39Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:40Like leave it all, anything, fancy thing will fail, if you look at it properly.
00:31:43The way they, precision ke saath banate hain usko.
00:31:45But also affection.
00:31:46Yeah.
00:31:47Their love.
00:31:48Hmm.
00:31:49Their position.
00:31:50Hmm.
00:31:51So, I given the title.
00:31:52And aspiration also.
00:31:53Yeah.
00:31:54Everything inside.
00:31:55Yeah.
00:31:56So, for that, they carrying their dream.
00:31:57Hmm.
00:31:58Inside those.
00:31:59Inside.
00:32:00Yeah.
00:32:01Because whatever they worked hard.
00:32:02Yeah.
00:32:03So, I went back Dubai.
00:32:04Hmm.
00:32:05I made video about it.
00:32:06Hmm.
00:32:07And I went, I met those people.
00:32:08Hmm.
00:32:09Who work in Dometri.
00:32:10Who work in Dometri.
00:32:11They live in Dometri.
00:32:12Yeah.
00:32:13I went to see them.
00:32:14And I wanted to see ki, when they go home, how they pack their bags.
00:32:16Aur gathri mein kya hota hai.
00:32:17Gathri mein kya hota hai.
00:32:18Haan.
00:32:19So…
00:32:20Kya hota hai?
00:32:21Gathri mein kuch nahi hota hai.
00:32:22Very interestingly, they have a Nabiya cream.
00:32:25Hai?
00:32:26One doll.
00:32:27Haan.
00:32:28For their child.
00:32:29Hmm.
00:32:30Maybe one underwear for their wife.
00:32:31Yeah.
00:32:32Yeah?
00:32:33Hmm.
00:32:34Or some toy.
00:32:35And they…
00:32:36Just little, little things.
00:32:37Yeah.
00:32:38But for them, it's everything.
00:32:39It's everything.
00:32:40Yeah.
00:32:41They're taking village.
00:32:42Come on.
00:32:43Yeah.
00:32:44They're taking home.
00:32:45Hmm.
00:32:46And it's a…
00:32:47It's a token, na?
00:32:48It's a tokens.
00:32:49Yeah.
00:32:50And they pack it such a way.
00:32:51And their friends will help them to pack together.
00:32:52Hmm.
00:32:53They will pack it together.
00:32:54Then they will make a tape.
00:32:55They will write the name.
00:32:56Yeah.
00:32:57Oh, they do whole and then they will go and drop it.
00:32:58It's so fascinating.
00:33:00And it's very moving.
00:33:01Yeah.
00:33:02It's very moving.
00:33:03Yeah.
00:33:04And sometime dream can be so powerful and so hard working.
00:33:08Hmm.
00:33:09It's take your life to do that.
00:33:10But yes, I've been fortunate ki I observed them.
00:33:14I able to make it artwork.
00:33:16And they given the title like everything in inside.
00:33:19Yeah.
00:33:20I also give it them cross seven seas.
00:33:22Hmm.
00:33:23Hmm.
00:33:24Hmm.
00:33:25I made many series of the work about them.
00:33:26Hmm.
00:33:27And I given them.
00:33:28It was also very interesting ki Bihar mein migrant corridor hai.
00:33:31You know so.
00:33:32Yeah.
00:33:33There is a thing about Bihar is that we always cross over.
00:33:35So one thing was with me.
00:33:38Somehow I always looked at it what I lived in.
00:33:43Yeah.
00:33:44I was not so educated.
00:33:47Yeah.
00:33:48So I did, I was not carrying something very heavy.
00:33:51To as a barrier basically.
00:33:53To your.
00:33:55But I observed due to the theatre.
00:33:57I able to observe normal people so closely.
00:34:00Exactly.
00:34:01Yeah.
00:34:02So closely.
00:34:03Because we used to travel together with the theatre group.
00:34:05Hmm.
00:34:06And we used to go Allahabad, Jamshedpur.
00:34:08Yeah.
00:34:09To do a small theatre.
00:34:10And interacting with the audience.
00:34:13And doing some comedy also.
00:34:16And many things.
00:34:18So we learn lot.
00:34:19And I think.
00:34:21It's also human relationship.
00:34:22Yeah.
00:34:23It's human relationship.
00:34:24And today when I make art.
00:34:26I spent 7 years in art school.
00:34:30Hmm.
00:34:31And 5, 6 years in theatre.
00:34:32I will say still theatre for me is art school.
00:34:35Exactly.
00:34:36And art school was technical for me.
00:34:39Hmm.
00:34:40They told me to how to mix the colour.
00:34:43Like you said chemistry of colour.
00:34:45Yeah.
00:34:46The theatre really.
00:34:47The soul of colour you got from theatre.
00:34:48Theatre given me subject.
00:34:49Hmm.
00:34:50Theatre what to do.
00:34:51Hmm.
00:34:53And if I make it very large work today.
00:34:56And something everybody ask me.
00:34:58Why you making large work?
00:34:59Still I find.
00:35:00And in theatre.
00:35:01You need a audience.
00:35:04Yeah.
00:35:05You need a light.
00:35:06You need a people to act.
00:35:08And you don't have sound to be very loud.
00:35:09But when I left theatre.
00:35:10And I was going to the art school.
00:35:12I very interestingly.
00:35:15Hmm.
00:35:16You become your own audience.
00:35:18Yeah.
00:35:19When you paint.
00:35:20You become your own light.
00:35:23Hmm.
00:35:24And your own stage.
00:35:25One man show.
00:35:26One man show.
00:35:27One man show.
00:35:28You become a one man show.
00:35:29So very interestingly.
00:35:30I combined the C and C.
00:35:31But anyhow.
00:35:33I knew that.
00:35:34I was theatre.
00:35:36I don't know where I could have gone.
00:35:37But I thought.
00:35:38Okay.
00:35:39I chosen this now.
00:35:40Hmm.
00:35:41So let's focus in this.
00:35:42So.
00:35:43But also your stories.
00:35:44You are selecting.
00:35:45It's also very interesting.
00:35:46You know.
00:35:47There is a thing of curating it.
00:35:48There is a narrative somehow.
00:35:49Which is chaotic.
00:35:50Hmm.
00:35:51But there is a narrative.
00:35:52A very beautiful thing comes out of it.
00:35:53Like.
00:35:54You had a story.
00:35:55That you wanted a trolley.
00:35:56From the airport.
00:35:57Now you have to make it.
00:35:58Then you told me about.
00:35:59How one friend of yours suggested.
00:36:01That take it in the car.
00:36:03So also.
00:36:04No.
00:36:05Because it was.
00:36:06It's such a funny.
00:36:07It was.
00:36:08I needed trolley badly.
00:36:09Because I wanted to cast.
00:36:10Yeah.
00:36:11You clicked photos.
00:36:12But it didn't work.
00:36:13No.
00:36:14It didn't work.
00:36:15So I asked a political influence friend.
00:36:16Yes.
00:36:17That you are an influence.
00:36:18Give me a trolley.
00:36:19I want a trolley.
00:36:20He said.
00:36:21Subodh.
00:36:22You will ask for a trolley.
00:36:23He will say.
00:36:24Write a letter.
00:36:25Why do you want a trolley?
00:36:26Yes.
00:36:27Then.
00:36:28There is a lot of terrorism going on.
00:36:29Yes.
00:36:30It's about the airport.
00:36:31You are not seen from the other side.
00:36:32Yes.
00:36:33Yes.
00:36:34Then.
00:36:35A lot of things.
00:36:36It seems very complicated.
00:36:37Yes.
00:36:38So pick up a trolley from the airport.
00:36:39I said.
00:36:40How can I pick up a trolley from the airport?
00:36:41He said.
00:36:42So many trolleys are installed.
00:36:43In the car parking.
00:36:44Yes.
00:36:45So many trolleys are installed.
00:36:46In the car parking.
00:36:47Yes.
00:36:48In the car parking.
00:36:49At that time.
00:36:50The airport was also of very old style.
00:36:51Yes.
00:36:52So it was very easy.
00:36:53He went.
00:36:54He put a gypsy.
00:36:55He opened the door.
00:36:56He kept the suitcase.
00:36:57He also kept the trolley.
00:36:58And took it away.
00:36:59I said.
00:37:00This is right.
00:37:01It's quite fascinating.
00:37:02The installation of the trolley.
00:37:03Yes.
00:37:04Because there is.
00:37:05This nostalgia.
00:37:06Like.
00:37:07We are also seeing it.
00:37:08Like.
00:37:09After you told me that story.
00:37:10About the workers' gathering.
00:37:11Even today at Patna airport.
00:37:12It's an old airport.
00:37:13Even now.
00:37:15It still hasn't changed.
00:37:16It still.
00:37:17It hasn't changed.
00:37:18It's nothing.
00:37:19It will keep showing big.
00:37:20Yes.
00:37:21And now the thing is.
00:37:22For us also.
00:37:23It's fascinating.
00:37:24We didn't pay attention before.
00:37:25When we heard this story.
00:37:26We also paid attention.
00:37:27It will be late by 10 minutes.
00:37:28But see the gathering and go.
00:37:29Yes.
00:37:30So that's also.
00:37:31How art changes.
00:37:32People like me also.
00:37:33Right.
00:37:34In the sense that.
00:37:35We are also seeing the story in it.
00:37:36Right.
00:37:37So my mother.
00:37:38When she went to your show.
00:37:39She said.
00:37:40There are utensils.
00:37:41I said.
00:37:42But you didn't see the utensils like this.
00:37:44But also.
00:37:45Interestingly somehow.
00:37:46When I make a sculpture.
00:37:47Even they don't understand the sculpture.
00:37:48Yeah.
00:37:51But in it.
00:37:52There is such an object.
00:37:53Which can be related to it.
00:37:54She is relating it.
00:37:56So I came to see the object.
00:37:57Then I saw the object.
00:37:58Then I said okay.
00:37:59What kind of work is this?
00:38:00Then I tried to understand it.
00:38:01Then somewhere.
00:38:02A dialogue started.
00:38:04Yes.
00:38:05Dialogue starts.
00:38:06And doing the show in Patna.
00:38:10I will say.
00:38:11I will say one of the my best thing I've done in my life and one of the best show I'm doing in my life
00:38:17Because first of all I'm coming from there.
00:38:21This is my home and
00:38:23second
00:38:24The people from there, they never seen art even contemporary art even in their life
00:38:31Yeah
00:38:32Those people coming and you can see a smile in their face and like the fact that's fascinating
00:38:38That is fascinating. That's fascinating. It's a very emotional
00:38:42And it's not like that. They're looking at it. They're looking at it. They're engaging with it. And that's it art made for the look and if you've seen it
00:38:50Somehow subconsciously you've taken lots of things. You don't have to express it and explain it
00:38:54No, you don't have to and another thing I said
00:38:56I also noticed that you straddle all kinds of words now you are like such a big artist you've gone international
00:39:02You've gone everywhere. There is this whole thing about speaking in a certain jargon, you know in the art world keep a
00:39:07Modernism impressionistic. Yeah, but then you go home or whatever and your work is very simple and there's an honesty about it
00:39:15Keep it. Yeah, I have an old past and I'm carrying it. And then you said
00:39:20You know, just a simple old lady came to the show looking at the tiffin
00:39:25Then you said this is the response and what is this? What is the how how do you define a response and
00:39:33Why is it important?
00:39:34Very interestingly like right now we were looking at Mauritius Catalan banana
00:39:40We talked about it and then same time. We also talked about Dushyant
00:39:45Fountain
00:39:47fountain, so
00:39:50115 years ago. Yeah, he made something that bad
00:39:53So that was the most serious and really the whole art world and very brave and history changed since then completely and
00:40:01Also when you see it from the cave painting the
00:40:08Art hasn't changed much
00:40:11Then you look at it
00:40:14the
00:40:16What we see new in art what we see new in what what I'm trying to painting is still going on
00:40:23No
00:40:24Yeah, what I'm trying to say only thing you were looking at what you already know about it. Exactly
00:40:31Yeah, it's not like something
00:40:34if Kafka written a story
00:40:36how long ago and
00:40:39Her he's a story how much today is grounded. It's how much
00:40:44a
00:40:46Manto or Premchand the story is grounded. They are contemporary, right? Exactly. They're so contemporary timeless
00:40:53Same thing is that we there is a moon. There is a earth. There is a space. There is a universe
00:41:00There are people there are the people we come we're going to go. Yeah, it's just cycle
00:41:05So whatever you observing and what is your strength? Hmm if we do that, honestly, that is
00:41:14In your own language
00:41:16and that's make
00:41:17That's make you strong. Whatever language you choose either writing or making art or anything
00:41:25but you have if you have a command on that and you allow to express yourself within your
00:41:31Expression you succeed. Yeah, and that's we are looking at twin century and century completely
00:41:36So not much art changes in that perspective. Yeah, but of course
00:41:42We
00:41:45Fly today with the plane and technology
00:41:51Emotion core is there emotion code is there is still we love to see the moon and sun and sunset
00:41:58Sometimes yeah, but now like maybe a I said it's not pretty good. Yeah, but
00:42:03We all know
00:42:05key
00:42:06a
00:42:08crystal
00:42:12Belgium Spain
00:42:17I'll believe
00:42:19Joe capsule that they take on a go
00:42:23Pay for that. I mean, yeah, I mean
00:42:25It was me taste I go on late car or kissy chicken car or soup car. So they create they're so creative
00:42:33To give you to food to eat in such a way you experiences and these are one of the best
00:42:38Top restaurant in the world watch and they run it for many many years and they close it now
00:42:44and
00:42:45Many of the people who work in the elderly they open the Noma restaurant like also, but now they have so
00:42:54Experimental food with the eating with the capsule and taste like an omelet or post a chicken
00:43:01And really eating the real food
00:43:04So they didn't last so much no, so it's still I don't want to eat a capsule
00:43:10But people wanted to go ahead to experiment
00:43:13But you know, so everything has a room for everything. I don't know why I said that though
00:43:18No, actually because we were talking about response and how art doesn't change much. Yeah
00:43:24Yeah, it's a bit or as I but I'll tell you can I tell you more Joe core health?
00:43:28Yeah, core health is the same.
00:43:30One response question was that
00:43:32We were in Bihar and we saw a lot of response
00:43:34Two girls go in front of your mirror and then you hold her hand and pull her and run away
00:43:40It's very difficult to confront yourself in that mirror, but it's so beautiful also
00:43:44The refreshing thing was that very like common people came which was very beautiful school kids were coming
00:43:50You know, it's not like
00:43:52Hi-fi type of people are coming, very normal people
00:43:54It's a big deal for them to see a ticket of 500 rupees
00:43:56That they have come in an auto
00:43:58And Bihar Museum is that kind of space also. It's pretty open. Very open. There's nothing very overwhelming about it
00:44:05Although designed by Maki and all that, but I think I have been going there for a long time
00:44:10But your response I saw with your that tiffin box guy
00:44:14Poor old lady is looking at him with curiosity
00:44:18I thought there was something very innocent about it
00:44:21So, I don't know like does it mean a lot for an artist like you?
00:44:25I told you that when I was standing first day in the museum
00:44:31And watching people how they were looking at my artwork
00:44:34I felt like I should not leave
00:44:37And honestly I wanted to go to Patna
00:44:42I feel like every week at least to experience that
00:44:45Because I will never get that opportunity again
00:44:47To feel the people and see their expression from that closely
00:44:52And especially I want to go Sunday because Sunday is very crowded
00:44:55Completely, it's so much fun
00:44:57And I wanted to go there and spend the whole day again Sunday
00:45:00So, no I think it's extraordinary
00:45:04And that's why I like it most
00:45:07Because those people haven't seen contemporary art
00:45:10Those people not so much
00:45:14They don't know art history, movement
00:45:16Such a pure response
00:45:18Very pure feeling
00:45:20Very pure feeling looking at any visual art
00:45:23And the way they see it and they express it about it
00:45:29That's fascinating
00:45:31And most of the people are able to relate it
00:45:34Completely
00:45:35We feel jealous that why our response is not so pure
00:45:38Because we are burdened with so much knowledge also sometimes
00:45:41It's useless
00:45:42Because that core response
00:45:46And also in Bihar I saw you were surrounded by friends
00:45:49Your college friends
00:45:50Anjani ji who is the director and the chief advisor
00:45:53He is fascinating because he gets you also
00:45:55I think
00:45:56Anjani is an extraordinary person
00:45:59And due to him I think Bihar Museum is running so far
00:46:04And he is the curator for the show also
00:46:06I am so proud that he curated my show
00:46:09And he given me also freedom
00:46:12To do what I like
00:46:17And that relationship shows through
00:46:19We work together in the show
00:46:21So that was very fascinating
00:46:23That's why I was able to do that
00:46:25Exactly
00:46:26And it took a lot of time
00:46:28And this other thing which I find fascinating
00:46:30Is this whole room that you have made
00:46:32And you started cooking
00:46:34And long ago when I was working for another media thing
00:46:37You had told me that you know this cooking
00:46:39When you started
00:46:41It was also nostalgia
00:46:43Because when food was made in your house
00:46:45Sometimes the vegetables got over
00:46:47And then you saw people using innovation
00:46:49Like in chili, garlic
00:46:51Renovation
00:46:52Exactly
00:46:53They are experimenting with their food
00:46:55And that experiment bring a new dish
00:46:58Exactly
00:46:59A new dish and become more tastier
00:47:01And that's what you do in cooking
00:47:03If a great chef
00:47:05It's not like what you are cooking
00:47:07What you are innovating
00:47:09And what you are able to make out of the same
00:47:11Ingredients
00:47:13Something very different
00:47:15Nobody has eaten before
00:47:17So that's what the excitement
00:47:19And all these things come later
00:47:21At that time I don't remember
00:47:23That it was like this
00:47:25Now I remember because now I am cooking
00:47:27And now I see
00:47:29Chef does this thing
00:47:31And then most of the great chefs
00:47:33They are getting very organic
00:47:35They are going in the ground
00:47:37They are finding
00:47:39We used to go in child
00:47:41And
00:47:43Pick up some kind of
00:47:45Three kind of leaf
00:47:47Like a butterfly kind of leaf
00:47:49And all cousins, sisters
00:47:51Little, little
00:47:53We are playing in the ground
00:47:55And we will pick them and eat them
00:47:57I think I remember that
00:47:59So
00:48:01Even a small mango
00:48:03In the summer
00:48:05And some of them going in the grass
00:48:07So
00:48:09That time we had a knowledge
00:48:11What to pick up from the floor
00:48:13And it came naturally
00:48:15And came naturally
00:48:17What to eat and what you can't eat
00:48:19So like
00:48:21There used to be a flower
00:48:23There used to be berries
00:48:25Little blue coloured berries
00:48:27That berry you can eat it
00:48:29We have eaten it
00:48:33Earlier there used to be a lot
00:48:35There used to be a lot of small flowers
00:48:37And there used to be a small blue coloured
00:48:39Berries
00:48:41I think I have seen it
00:48:43And we used to eat the berries
00:48:45There used to be a small
00:48:47Blueberry in the tree
00:48:49We used to eat that too
00:48:51Remember that? I don't know
00:48:53I am just forgetting the name
00:48:55What we used to call it
00:48:57So those are things
00:48:59I am looking at
00:49:01To the best chef in the world
00:49:03Finding those things
00:49:05And bringing it back
00:49:07And making something very special
00:49:09Because those things are very organic
00:49:11Because we need to
00:49:13Find ourselves
00:49:15What we are not eating everyday
00:49:17Something we are missing
00:49:19In our palate
00:49:21What it was there
00:49:23The taste of home
00:49:25Especially
00:49:27When my father
00:49:29Passed away I went to the village
00:49:31My uncle was a farmer
00:49:33So my mother
00:49:35Came from the farmer family
00:49:37So they have a big farming
00:49:39So I used to
00:49:41Go and live with them for two years
00:49:43And I remember
00:49:45There was
00:49:47One saag called
00:49:49Khesari saag
00:49:51It is very difficult to make
00:49:53Khesari saag
00:49:55Very interestingly
00:49:57When it used to come from the farm
00:49:59It used to come this much
00:50:01Not this much in the village
00:50:03It used to sit for 3-4 months
00:50:05And we used to clean it
00:50:07But while they were picking and
00:50:09We all used to go there
00:50:11And make it
00:50:13We used to take it
00:50:15And eat it raw
00:50:17We all eat raw
00:50:19Khesari saag
00:50:21Bhadwa ka saag
00:50:23So
00:50:25Those kind of things
00:50:27Now
00:50:29Eating raw vegetables
00:50:31Is very fascinating
00:50:33In the new cuisine
00:50:37At that time we used to dip it
00:50:39And eat it with salt
00:50:41If you get it in a
00:50:43Fashion way
00:50:45Khesari saag
00:50:47Hand picked
00:50:49It will be one of the
00:50:51Best cuisine in a restaurant for a starter
00:50:53That is true
00:50:55But you will not find it
00:50:57Because where you get Khesari saag
00:50:59Earlier we used to dry wheat
00:51:01Now
00:51:03Same way like
00:51:05Amavat
00:51:07There are so many recipes of mango
00:51:09Amavat
00:51:11Earlier we used to eat Amavat like this
00:51:13Now
00:51:15All over the best
00:51:17People are using Amavat
00:51:19They are also finding
00:51:21Their way home
00:51:23Exactly
00:51:25Food is transformed crazy
00:51:27Food is taken
00:51:29So
00:51:31Excuse me
00:51:33My idea about the food
00:51:35To try to bring
00:51:37Those ingredients back
00:51:39I think in that also you are looking for a way home
00:51:41You have to go back
00:51:43To find it
00:51:45We also say
00:51:47The house is in memory
00:51:49But it is not like that
00:51:51Our house is broken
00:51:53But we have to go back
00:51:55We know that we will not reach
00:51:57But there is a journey there
00:51:59And I think that's what
00:52:01Your artwork even gives us
00:52:03There is a reassurance
00:52:05There are some objects
00:52:07Forged in steel
00:52:09You will not get hurt
00:52:11You are shining
00:52:13You use a lot of these used things
00:52:15There was one time when we were talking
00:52:17You
00:52:19You say that
00:52:21You see the universe
00:52:23There are so many utensils
00:52:25It's like an echo chamber
00:52:27Echo chamber
00:52:29And all utensils are used
00:52:31Imagine
00:52:33If I have 10,000 utensils
00:52:35In 10,000 utensils
00:52:37And people and families
00:52:39Make food
00:52:41And how many years
00:52:43They must have eaten
00:52:45And after so many years
00:52:47Who ate
00:52:49I don't know about them
00:52:51That fascinates me
00:52:53It's a meditative space
00:52:55And when you
00:52:57Take a close up of any of those utensils
00:52:59See this
00:53:01Take a close up of this
00:53:03So
00:53:05When you will go so close
00:53:07It will look like a cosmos
00:53:09So that fascinates me
00:53:11And I thought
00:53:13Why not
00:53:15So
00:53:17No
00:53:19Proust effect
00:53:21Remembrance of things past
00:53:23So
00:53:25There is that
00:53:27That was the reason
00:53:29I was working with utensils anyway
00:53:31And that was another reason to choose old utensils
00:53:33Because their memory
00:53:35Their past
00:53:37They're related to food
00:53:39They're related to
00:53:41Their space
00:53:43And it's all dying
00:53:45They're melting these utensils
00:53:47And they're making it
00:53:49Aluminium bricks
00:53:51So I want a recarnation in my art
00:53:53And also it's a room of wonder
00:53:55You can sit and think
00:53:57Who eats in this utensil
00:53:59And it's secular
00:54:01Who knows whose utensil it is
00:54:03There are so many things
00:54:05And everybody look at it in their own perspective
00:54:07And see it
00:54:09And this
00:54:11This is my studio kitchen
00:54:13One last question
00:54:15We have time left
00:54:17One small question
00:54:19What is memory to you
00:54:21And how do you keep it
00:54:23Second is you did some work
00:54:25Which is my favourite
00:54:27Which you have
00:54:29Like how we exchange
00:54:31Little bit if you can
00:54:33Talk about that
00:54:35How do you look at memory
00:54:37Is memory imagination also
00:54:39So
00:54:41Sometime
00:54:43I feel it
00:54:45When I'm making the artwork
00:54:47And I think I'm losing it
00:54:49Something is not right
00:54:51I'm not connecting it
00:54:53Maybe I'm
00:54:55Getting distracted
00:54:57Why this artwork
00:54:59What I'm trying to make
00:55:01It's not coming to me
00:55:03Close to me
00:55:05Why not giving me a strength
00:55:07Why I don't feel it confident
00:55:09Why I don't like it myself
00:55:11So these kind of questions
00:55:13When arise
00:55:15Then I leave it
00:55:17Then I really try to go back
00:55:19Try to go back to my memory
00:55:21And from my memory
00:55:23I try to connect that
00:55:25There is any link
00:55:27There is any connection
00:55:29There is anything
00:55:31Really I'm doing
00:55:33Sometime I'm able to solve with that
00:55:35Sometime not
00:55:37That artwork stays in my studio
00:55:39For 10 years I haven't touched them
00:55:41And after 10 years
00:55:43Then I'll make it again
00:55:45So this is happen
00:55:47Like you're writing something
00:55:49Just leave it aside
00:55:51So you're saying
00:55:53Same thing
00:55:55Yeah the question was
00:55:57It's a very beautiful project
00:55:59It's also about
00:56:01I saw some parts of that film
00:56:03Many years ago
00:56:05Many years ago
00:56:07I
00:56:09Was in my hometown
00:56:11And
00:56:15One uncle will come
00:56:17And they will say
00:56:19Subodh this is a family tree
00:56:21And they are so
00:56:23Chauvinist in that way
00:56:25They will show me tree
00:56:29Okay they become
00:56:31And all we live in one
00:56:33Mahalla
00:56:35And there is a 2000 family there
00:56:37And they all we related to each other
00:56:39The big family
00:56:41No the uncle
00:56:43We have it because our family
00:56:45Come from there and we belong to there
00:56:47So many of them now
00:56:49It's like a village
00:56:51And they enter each one's house
00:56:53And you'll go to 10 houses
00:56:55It's like a cave
00:56:57It's like very
00:56:59Interestingly
00:57:01But you will not see
00:57:03Any female picture
00:57:05Only men
00:57:07You'll get the photo of brother
00:57:09You'll get the photo of brother
00:57:11But you won't get the photo of grandma
00:57:13But you won't get the photo of grandma
00:57:15So it's very interestingly
00:57:17So I was not so much interested in my
00:57:19Family tree
00:57:21But one point
00:57:23There is lots of family
00:57:25I used to go from childhood
00:57:27Aunt
00:57:29You used to go to their house
00:57:31And you went to their house
00:57:33And you ate pakora
00:57:35And you ate pakora
00:57:37And Subodh Babu
00:57:39Will feed you pakora
00:57:41And you'll go to their house
00:57:43So we are like this
00:57:45So my family strength
00:57:47And the
00:57:49It was there
00:57:51So it's still there
00:57:53I miss them actually
00:57:55Because sometime
00:57:57I'll meet some aunt of that time
00:57:59She'll tell old story
00:58:01She'll tell old story
00:58:03Subodh Babu, it's been so long
00:58:05I haven't seen your face
00:58:07Very emotional, very interesting
00:58:09And they were very close that time
00:58:11So one day I thought
00:58:13I should make art about those family
00:58:15And I start
00:58:17Okay you have something, any personal thing
00:58:19Give it to me
00:58:21I start asking them then
00:58:23But none of them able to give me
00:58:25Something really personal
00:58:27Because first of all maybe they didn't have
00:58:29If they have, they don't want to give
00:58:31Yeah
00:58:33And the jewelry
00:58:35Even
00:58:37I noticed one thing
00:58:39I noticed one thing
00:58:41That they have not much to give me
00:58:43Exactly
00:58:45So I felt very sad about it
00:58:47And then
00:58:49I collected it little bit
00:58:51But that project somehow
00:58:53Got shelved
00:58:55Got shelved
00:58:57But
00:58:59Then I was in Bombay
00:59:01When
00:59:03When I was doing project in Bombay
00:59:05When I was doing my show
00:59:08Solo show
00:59:10In film institution
00:59:12That time I decided
00:59:14When I read Catherine
00:59:16Behind Beautiful Forever
00:59:18Behind the Beautiful Forever
00:59:20And when I met her and spoken to her
00:59:22So
00:59:24I was quite inspired with that story
00:59:26And everything
00:59:28So I asked Catherine
00:59:30How you did in the slum
00:59:32How you able to go inside
00:59:34Because if I enter, I don't know where to go
00:59:37And how to navigate this
00:59:39How to talk to people
00:59:41She said I have a person
00:59:43I worked there for 3-4 years
00:59:45So I know the people
00:59:47Will you introduce me one person
00:59:49So she did introduce me to one person
00:59:51Then I explained that person
00:59:53I wanted to choose
00:59:5510 family
00:59:57In slum
00:59:59And I just want
01:00:01Everything from their kitchen
01:00:03And I wanted to give them new kitchen
01:00:06Then they said
01:00:08Ya but it's not easy
01:00:10They will ask the question
01:00:12Why you want new kitchen
01:00:14Nobody wanted to give their
01:00:16Ok fair enough
01:00:18But can you find 10 family
01:00:20If they will tell them seriously
01:00:22They are going to get new cup
01:00:24New cutlery
01:00:26Maybe little better quality
01:00:28So anyway
01:00:30She was so good
01:00:32She helped me so minutely
01:00:35She not only to convince those family
01:00:37She calculated
01:00:39Every single item from the kitchen
01:00:41With the size and measurement
01:00:43What they have in the kitchen
01:00:45TV, fridge everything
01:00:47And she gave it to my list
01:00:49She did not told the family
01:00:51It's going to be exchanged
01:00:53Because they said if I tell them
01:00:55Maybe they will bring 10-15 more things
01:00:57In the kitchen
01:00:59And they will say it's part of the kitchen
01:01:01So she was so
01:01:04Can you imagine
01:01:06And she helped me to navigate this
01:01:08And then I selected those family
01:01:10I bought those new things
01:01:12And I went to those family
01:01:14And it was the project I did it
01:01:16I bring that project to make it
01:01:18In a studio installation
01:01:20New installation and I did
01:01:22Created once
01:01:24First of all
01:01:26Why I am doing this work
01:01:28This work
01:01:30What will happen
01:01:32Why it is coming in my mind
01:01:36Why I am doing this
01:01:38I don't know why
01:01:40What is the meaning
01:01:42There are so many things
01:01:44Because everything is suspended
01:01:46I have experimented that installation
01:01:48I have never exhibited that work
01:01:50It's still in the studio
01:01:52So I have a
01:01:54I have a dream
01:01:56To exhibit that work in the right place
01:01:58So
01:02:00I have thought the title of that work
01:02:02What?
01:02:06I have taken the title from a song
01:02:08Called Ek Muthi Aasman
01:02:12And given the one fist
01:02:14Of a sky
01:02:16So
01:02:18That work is still in my studio
01:02:20I haven't exhibited it
01:02:22You are still questioning
01:02:24In 2016 I started making that work
01:02:26I remember
01:02:28I made that work
01:02:30Questioning
01:02:32You know what
01:02:34Everything you make why you make
01:02:36There was a reason
01:02:38May be what I was trying to collect
01:02:40From family they did not give it to me
01:02:42I will find another family
01:02:44To give it to me
01:02:46So somehow
01:02:48Related
01:02:50In one way
01:02:52Because
01:02:56I don't know why
01:02:58I am very good at
01:03:00To connect with the
01:03:02Very grounded people
01:03:04Exactly
01:03:06May be that dialogues
01:03:08May be your work is about
01:03:10Memory
01:03:12When I used to work
01:03:14In Modi Nagar
01:03:16Everybody looking for the material
01:03:18All the artists used to come
01:03:20Then I used to take them and talk to the
01:03:22You know
01:03:24Some people
01:03:26How good are you at it
01:03:28Talking to those people
01:03:30Those people I am used to talking to
01:03:32That's why
01:03:34They are my people
01:03:36They understand me
01:03:38That fascinates me
01:03:40That's why I keep doing my own kind of artwork
01:03:42You want to create something
01:03:44Very different
01:03:46What is different is nothing
01:03:48Just do your own thing
01:03:50That's it
01:03:52Thank you
01:03:54I wish you are always surrounded by memories
01:03:56Like this room
01:03:58A friend like you
01:04:00We learn so much
01:04:02It's so fascinating to talk to you
01:04:04I hope you all find a way home
01:04:06I am from Bihar
01:04:08You are from Bihar
01:04:10We also know how we have carried that home
01:04:12Forever
01:04:14You can't return to it
01:04:16It's very emotional
01:04:18Long way to go
01:04:20Fortune still now
01:04:22Thank you so much
01:04:24Thank you