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00:00Okay, when you think about a musical biopic, a CGI chimpanzee playing the main character
00:16is not an obvious choice. But what if I told you that Better Man is my favorite biopic
00:23ever? Truly, it's like nothing you've ever seen before. It's a perfect collaboration
00:29between the life of British singer songwriter Robbie Williams, and the imagination of writer
00:36director Michael Gracie, who made The Greatest Showman. When they met, Robbie mentioned to
00:42Michael that he felt like a performing monkey when he was a member of the British boy band
00:48Let's Take That. That comment inspired Michael to make him into a chimpanzee. And trust me,
00:56it works. Here to talk about Better Man, please welcome to the stage, Robbie Williams.
01:05Hello, Hollywood. Hello, darling. So nice to see you all. My God, you must like films.
01:21Is this like it? So what time did this start? How long have you been sitting there, madam?
01:298.30am. Since 8.30am this morning? Are you okay? My God, I love how much you must love
01:38films. They're not even TED Talks. You don't even learn anything apart from directors have
01:45God complexes and actors are narcissists. You take nothing away from this at all. But
01:51God bless you and thank you for trying. The amazing thing about my journey so far in the
01:59movie world is how on earth any film gets made is beyond me because the trials and tribulations of
02:07bringing this to screen from the inception of the idea seven years ago, it that's a documentary in
02:14itself. And yeah, it's, it's fascinating. Also, I found what was fascinating then was I was taking
02:23in that, that, that, that song and the part of the movie more enthusiastically than anybody in
02:30the movie that anybody sat here today, and I was accusing actors of being narcissists. I'm
02:36sorry, go in. So excuse me. Music and your life. Yeah, I can be proud, right? Yeah.
02:51So that scene is beautiful, but not everything that is depicted in the film of your life is
03:02is pretty by any means. And I had a conversation with Michael a few weeks ago, where he talked
03:10about how proud he was of you for just letting him tell it no sugarcoating. And you'd said to
03:19me that your bandmates from take that that we just saw depicted had not yet seen it. Have they seen
03:25it yet? One of them has. And that's the thing about this movie. There were many villains in
03:34this movie, until we legally couldn't have many villains in this movie. And now the only villain
03:40in this movie is me. It didn't stop manager. We you know, I don't think they villain him enough,
03:49to be honest with you. But so I was in a boy band in England called Take That. And hey, thank you.
03:58And one that there was the lead singer gas and we had a fractious relationship. And in the script,
04:06I speak how I spoke. And I think how I thought back then, which wasn't complimentary to gas.
04:13And we sent him the script. And he rang me. And, you know, he's a grown up. And there was no
04:20effing and jeffing or pointy fingers. How are you going to do effing and jeffing?
04:32Because because I don't even know what that means. I just I heard my grandma say it. And I was like,
04:39I'll keep that in anyway. So gas gets the script and he phones me and he's like, Rob,
04:45I come off worse than Darth Vader in the first Star Wars. So yeah, so we we had to and I'm,
04:54you know, I'm quite happy to be the main villain in this in this movie.
05:01You'd also told me that, you know, your then girlfriend, Nicole Appleton, who was in the band
05:08All Saints, she's a big part of this story. And some really bad, you know, very difficult things
05:16happen that involve her. And obviously, she approved the script. But you told me that
05:23her and her sister, who's also in the band had watched it and then FaceTimed you.
05:30How do you feel in that moment? Well, the things that you're talking about very bad things happened
05:35was she was made to have an abortion of our child. And yeah, it's it's rough and triggering.
05:43And but there's this thing about Nick is that that's the most difficult bit of the film for me
05:49personally, is because everybody else in the movie, they did something bad. And I don't mind
05:57throwing them under the bus. But when it comes to Nick, I was the person that did the bad thing,
06:03not talking about, you know, forcing her to get an abortion, because I didn't do that.
06:08But then, you know, she's incredibly wonderful, incredibly kind, and incredibly brave. And also
06:15wants her part of the story shown too. So I FaceTimed her straight after she came out of the
06:21screening. And it was just a blubber fest. It was just tears, tears, tears. And we just all you know,
06:30and in the middle of being able to talk, or we could say to each other was triggered,
06:36and then back to crying again. So yeah, but this is Yeah, hopefully, this is very much
06:45a healing experience for me. And I hope that it's a healing experience for her because,
06:51you know, she didn't deserve the version of me that she got when I was the version of that person
06:56back then. And I feel great shame that I didn't represent myself in the best way possible because
07:05she deserves the best and she deserved the best me and she didn't get it. Effing and Jeffing.
07:16Yeah.
07:26So Michael also told me that when I really admire your ability to do this,
07:31you let him basically get on with it. Even though this is so personal, you've come to
07:37a place where you were like, Okay, fine. It's that's the truth. Go tell it. And then he didn't
07:42let you see the film until it was done. And partly that was because he didn't want to freak
07:47you out with a chimpanzee. And he didn't want to show you before the CGI was on there because it
07:55would have looked really different. So you're seeing it for the first time finished. Let's call
08:01it how it is. He didn't want to show me while there was any time for that to be redone because
08:08yes, that's exactly what I'm talking. That's what he did. But he didn't have to because you know,
08:13I when you hire or have somebody as brilliant as Michael Gracie, direct your biography,
08:23you better let him do it. If you hire Robbie Williams, you get Robbie Williams, let me do
08:30Robbie Williams. Michael Gracie knows way more about scripts about direction, about the points
08:37that need to be hit, you know, than I do. And I just let him do him. And, and yeah, this is as
08:48anybody seen it, by the way, and a few people. It's a, it's a massive, in fact, not everybody
08:56had seen it, but only those people appreciated it. Now it's a, it's a massive, massive swing ballsy.
09:08And, and, and you look, I just got out of his way. And thank God that I did.
09:23But then you're in the theatre, you watch it for the first time. And I mean, I find it a very
09:30deeply emotional watch. I can't even imagine I can't begin to imagine if that was my life. And
09:36I'm suddenly watching the film of one actually a very, very difficult story. And it's my life.
09:43How did you even cope? How did you process that? Well, I think the one big aspect of being this
09:53kind of neurodivergent is that I don't pick up on the cues where normal people go, I better not
10:02share that. Or I better not say that. Like, I'm good with social cues, I get them. It's just all
10:07of this other stuff. Because like, I go, here are my hemorrhoids. And people go, maybe you should
10:15not show your hemorrhoids. And I go, why? I have hemorrhoids. You know, so I don't get it. You know,
10:24I don't get because people keep coming to me and they keep going, you're very, you're very brave.
10:29I know, I don't want to go, thanks. But I don't know which bits the brave thing because here are
10:35my hemorrhoids. Okay, so something that's where I keep my hemorrhoids. See?
10:48Something that you had said to me, though, was that you were worried about your dad.
10:53Oh, yeah. Because, you know, this is a telling of a version of a story through the eyes of a child
11:00and partly through what your mum had told you about your dad. And when we're kids, we think
11:06it's all about our self worth if our parents are something weird. So that's the story. But there's
11:12so much more to your dad. And you were saying that to me that you were worried about him because
11:18the film is a version of him.
11:21I don't want him to see it. Because, you know, I've done so much work on myself, I've rehabbed,
11:29I've therapied. I've lived in Los Angeles for 24 years. And I'm very grateful that I've picked up
11:35on how to do all of this and heal yourself. And we Brits don't do that. But, you know,
11:41but my dad hasn't, and he hasn't needed to. And also, we haven't had this conversation.
11:46So this is so bizarre to have this film. And the main thing running through it is my relationship
11:52with my father, that I haven't talked to my father about. And yeah, I don't want him to see it.
12:04Just because also, you know, Steve Pemberton, who plays my dad in this movie does a brilliant job,
12:10is tour de force. But also, you know, my dad in this movie is not very likable.
12:19And there's nobody that hasn't met my dad that hasn't fallen in love with him straight away,
12:23because he's just charming, and a beautiful person and wonderful. Even my mom at one point
12:29fell in love with him. And, and this is funny, so don't be sad. But she's got dementia, right?
12:37Yeah, yeah, that's not the funny bit. But she, she, the last thing she'll remember is how much
12:42she hates my dad. That's funny. That's you're allowed. Yeah. Well, what is the rest of your
12:52family say about it? Is there anyone else that you've shown it to that that was challenging?
12:59The rest of my family aren't in it. It's like me, my mom, my nan, and my dad. And that's how it
13:05that's how it starts. But I guess the cousins could have done more to be featured in my life
13:13when they should have featured themselves more in my life. It's not it's not my fault that they're
13:17boring. I don't mean that cousin Jane, cousin Bunty, cousin Matthew, I don't mean that you're
13:24very wonderful people. And you don't deserve to be thrown under the bus because you're all
13:27wonderful to me and I love you. Let's talk about Jono Davies, who plays you under the CGI.
13:37And he does an insanely impressive job. Did you get together with him? Or did he work based on
13:44the tapes and all the footage that there is of you? What did you how did you do that?
13:48So Jono showed me footage of him doing karaoke way before this was even muted for him to play me.
13:55And he was playing me at karaoke and doing a really good job. And I think it turns out that
14:02he's a fan of mine and has been watching me for quite a while. So yeah, he has done an unbelievable
14:09job. And no, I didn't sit with him. You know, I didn't sit with him that the me that's on stage
14:15is very different than the me that's off stage. So I, I met him and you know, we paddled about,
14:22but there wasn't it wasn't a learning experience. What I do love is he has a much better arse than
14:29me. And, and it is the book because like, I've got a like a long torso. And everybody thinks
14:36I'm really small, but I'm six foot one. And it's my legs that do it. And Jono's got really lovely
14:43legs and a lovely arse. So I'm very, very happy that this is how people remember me.
14:52I have to say that when I saw this film, I just went straight onto my Spotify and started playing
15:00all your hits. But you also have a new song in this film Forbidden Road. Tell us about writing
15:07that. And at what point did you sit down? Did you see the film and an early cut and then write? Or
15:14did you? How did that happen? I sent several songs to Michael Gracie over the two years leading up to
15:20this. And I always knew this story about Eight Mile and Eminem sending Lose Yourself and the
15:26director go and it's not good enough. And then it turned out to be Eight Mile. So I had that in my
15:30mind when he sent back my song and when it's not good enough. And I went fucking Eight Mile. And
15:37but here's the thing. You know, you don't have a bird's eye view of Michael's vision of what's
15:44happening. And once I did, I understood why that song wasn't right. And what we needed at this
15:50point of the movie, because this is how the movie goes. 40 minutes of I'm the awful dodger,
15:56but I'm from up north. And then it's an hour and 20 of train spotting. And then and then it's like
16:04Battle of the Bastards from Game of Thrones, you know, so by the time the film ends, you just want
16:11a hug. You really do. You need a hug. That is such an accurate description. Yeah, well, that's
16:17yeah. Well, then. So then the songs I sent weren't a hug. You know, they were. I overcome
16:24this stuff and I am victorious now. That's not what was needed. Want to go? Hey, we've been
16:32through some stuff together. Everything's going to be OK. Make sure you buy my T-shirt at the
16:40merchandise stand, which is not how it actually goes, but should. You know, today, when I knew I
16:50was going to see you, I thought, God, I really hope he sings and kind of did. Thank you. All
16:57right. Well, unfortunately, we're out of time. I could talk to you for hours about this film.
17:01I absolutely love it. And I just say I admire your perseverance and your endurance. Congratulations.
17:07Round of applause for you and a round of applause for you, darling.