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00:00This is the Deadline Hollywood Contenders panel, the Oscar nominees for Universal's Wicked.
00:05The Jon M. Chu directed feature take of the Broadway musical is up for a whopping 10 Oscar
00:11nominations. It's also the highest grossing feature adaptation of a Broadway musical on
00:17the big screen with close to $720 million worldwide. I'm Anthony D'Alessandro. Let's
00:24welcome our guests. Oscar nominated this year for Best Achievement in Film Editing,
00:30Myron Kirstein. Welcome. Thank you for having me. And the Oscar nominated sound team of Wicked,
00:38Nancy Nugent Title, the supervising sound editor and sound design of Wicked, John Marquis,
00:45supervising sound editor and sound design and re-recording mixer, and Andy Nelson,
00:51re-recording mixer. Hello all. Hello. Hi. Before we get started, let's look at a clip.
01:51How did all of you first get involved with Wicked and what drew you to the project?
02:12Well, I've been working with John since Crazy Rich Asians and we really enjoyed working together.
02:19And I had worked with him on In the Heights, which was our first musical together. And then
02:26John said his next film would be Wicked, which I was very excited about. And that was a year before,
02:36or maybe a couple of years actually before we actually started production. And so I was around
02:41for quite a bit of the pre-production and the development stages of the script. And then of
02:49course I was really excited to work with John and Nancy again. We worked together on Crazy Rich
02:56Asians and John worked on In the Heights as well. And then I'll tell Andy how he was involved
03:04because it's a great story as well. Yeah. I remember we were finishing up
03:10In the Heights and I had overheard in the back Myron and John talking about what was coming
03:16down the pipe. And I just, I was so, so excited just because after having just getting off the
03:22high of In the Heights and seeing the way John worked and the chemistry Myron had with him. And
03:29I just was really, really excited just knowing how near and dear and huge Wicked was going to
03:36be for the fans. And I just knew I felt a real confidence that John and the crew that he was
03:43going to assemble was going to be able to really give it what it needed to be for the film or for
03:48the screen. So that was back in 2020-ish, I think is when we started talking about it.
03:55So my involvement was, I was a new person to the team because I hadn't worked with John Myron or
04:03John before. I worked with Nancy, but not with the John Chu film. So, but I had worked with
04:10Mark Platt on La La Land. And he had mentioned at the time that Wicked would be coming along. And
04:16I basically bugged him every six months after that for about six years, probably, because I'd done a
04:24few musicals before, love working on them and loved the show, tremendously loved the show on stage.
04:30And I just had a feeling this was going to be something special on film as indeed it is. And
04:36so I chased John Chu rather dramatically.
04:43Yeah, I think I did some chasing as well. As Myron and John said, my first project with John
04:50Chu was Now You See Me 2. And then got to work with Myron on the next one after that. And it
04:56was just such a great team. And once we heard Wicked was happening, we were bugging people
05:03on a regular basis to make sure we got to be part of it.
05:08So for the sound team, how does John shape the creative process?
05:14Well, it's a big, it's very collaborative. You know, it's not just sound. I mean,
05:19we're involved with the choreography or the cinematography. And of course,
05:22Myron through the whole way, it's very homogenous and very reactive. You know,
05:31we'll sit down at the very beginning, Myron showed us a sizzle reel just to kind of,
05:36to whet our whistle and get us percolating on the particular sounds,
05:39Ozzie and nature and the whimsy and the world building that we're going to need to do.
05:44And so as they're putting the track together, you know, we're feeding him,
05:48at least from the sound effects side of things, we're feeding him just kind of some design ideas,
05:52some palettes, some things for him to play around with, to get a sense of where we're going to go.
05:57And it's just kind of back and forth, you know, as we, as we build, you know,
06:00he's refining the edit and then we're taking notes and, and it's just very collaborative
06:06back and forth, you know, and trying to capture, you know, the emotion and the sensibility
06:13of what we're seeing visually, you know, that's the audio, the sound.
06:17Music obviously is, is a massive part of the, of the production, but there's a whole world
06:23that needs to be built around it as well. And so John and Myron are very, very deep into that.
06:29So it's a, it's a long conversation that goes up through, through the final print master.
06:35I think John has a very clear intent of what he was trying to convey emotionally,
06:41and he shares that with us and then gives us a lot of freedom to,
06:46to be creative and to have a lot of back and forth.
06:50Yeah, I agree. I think coming onto it as one of the last people, because I don't deal with
06:55the editing side, so I'm kind of the last person to come on. It's, it's really fascinating because
07:01I, you know, I have no history on it. So I sort of see it fresh. And I feel very much part of my
07:08job is to make sure that the story is coming through clearly. And, you know, I think what
07:14was lovely about working with John and Myron particularly was the, as Nancy and John said,
07:19it was that freedom. It was, we could express it and try things out. And John would just sit and,
07:25and take it all in and then cherry pick all the, the notes and things that he felt were,
07:30we could do differently or, you know, it was, it was incredibly collaborative. And I think it was,
07:38you know, one of the most satisfying things for me that I've worked on for a long time.
07:43And Andy works on like every Spielberg ever, Spielberg film ever. And, you know, just to put,
07:49you know, when Andy Nelson tells you that you're doing something right, you, you take it in deeply.
07:56It was really important to me to have the sound team really close to the picture editorial
08:01department because I wanted that collaboration. I just knew if we had that back and forth between
08:06music editorial, picture editorial, sound design, mixing, just everyone together,
08:11that that would be a, for one, it'd be a really big family that, that would, we could hang out
08:17together and talk and laugh and cry, but also to just inspire each other and, you know, kick the
08:24tires on things. Even if it's like, you just, a hunch about something while you're standing at
08:31the water cooler. And, and when I met Andy for the first time, he was like, let's have lunch.
08:36And he told me about, you know, the, the things about musicals that people make mistakes on,
08:41it's not to have like a dynamic range to have moments of silence and quiet, as well as this
08:47bombastic moments. And that clip at the end with, you know, Elphaba looking at her younger self for
08:54the first time, that's a quiet, reflective moment that then builds into the climax of the film.
09:00Then again, goes to a meditative moment with, you know, the unlimited section. And then again,
09:08another powerful moment. And so to have people who have experience and talent near you,
09:15like whispering in your ear really informs how you edit something.
09:21Myron, tell us about the first cut of this movie. And if you can, other iterations,
09:29was it a six hour cut? Was it everything in it?
09:33It was perfect. It was perfect for one. There was, I, yeah, I just didn't change a thing after that.
09:39You know, it was a, it was a, it was a, it was a long movie. It was probably close to four hours.
09:49And then of course I had the second movie that was also assembled. So we were able to watch
09:54both parts at the same time to inform us, you know, what we're, the bigger story we're telling
10:01and whether or not it should still be one or two movies. And so, you know, we're thinking about a
10:06lot of things. And also that first cut did not have the end of our movie, did not have defined
10:12gravity because of the strike. So we had a lot of post-vis and animation and, you know, animated
10:18alphabet, like trying to sing the end of defined gravity with not live vocals and stuff. And so
10:25it was a, it was an unfinished, not a mess, but it was an unfinished, you know, foundation of a,
10:33of what the movie wanted to be. But then we had a lot to figure out. There was definitely scenes
10:38in there that were, that we dropped later and there, you know, which had been the release
10:44sense on, you know, to the world. And there's, but there was other things as well. And it's just,
10:50it's an assembly. That first cut is always like really important to me. I usually go guns blazing
10:56with, in my presentation to the director, especially with somebody with John, like I,
11:02I'll get sound design, I'll mix it myself for the first time. It's a lot of work just to present
11:09something, but it is just the beginnings of what, you know, there's no obviously VFX, it's really
11:16raw. But there's also, there's moments where, you know, my first cut of the Ozdust Ballroom, it's
11:22very similar to where we ended up. And so though, you know, knowing that certain things emotionally,
11:30again, the key is like just getting into John's head about what the emotional arc of the film is
11:36and understanding that everything else, like how, you know, how long the scene is or, you know,
11:45whether a scene should be in or out or whether or not the VFX are going to be good enough,
11:49or the music is going to be good enough. If you don't at least get a handle on what you're supposed
11:54to do emotionally, then the rest of it is just going to fall apart. So at least on the assembly
11:58stage, I sort of understood those basic things, which is really the thing that all that matters
12:04in any film, at least to me. For the sound team, tell us about the process of recording
12:12the live vocals on set and the challenges associated with that.
12:18Well, Simon Hayes, who's the sound recordist on set, who I've worked with before, is just phenomenal
12:24at capturing this. I mean, he makes sure he has microphones everywhere. He deals with the floor
12:31surfaces. His intention is to get everything as best he can on as many mics as possible
12:38to give us a lot of choice. Obviously, you're dealing with pre-recorded vocals that are done
12:43because you have to have that for choreography. You have to have that as your backup. But the
12:47intention was always to go live. And indeed, a lot of it is live and used live because it's so good.
12:55But it's just lovely to have all these choices. And I think Nancy also helped
12:59enormously with all these different microphone choices and things because, of course, you're
13:03dealing with going from dialogue to vocals and back and forward all the time. So that's the
13:07matching that's crucial. And I think Simon gave us so many options, right, Nancy? I mean, tremendous
13:14amount. Yeah, amazing amount of coverage, both on set and during pre-record. So if we needed to go
13:20back and forth, it was very easily done. But yeah, and we have amazing music editors whose job it was
13:28to sift through every single take of every angle of every scene and every microphone. And we matched
13:36that on the sound side as well. And it was labor intensive. But Simon's philosophy is always to
13:45provide as many choices as possible. And it does create a lot of work. But it's just the best way
13:53to approach something like this by far. Myron, what was the key in editing Defying Gravity?
13:59It's the signature song of the movie and arguably the most famous song in Broadway and cinema musical
14:06history. Yeah, I would say fear. Fear was the key to getting through Defying Gravity. No, it was-
14:13Defying Fear. Yeah, Defying Fear. You know, it's really exciting when you know the history of a
14:21song means so much to so many. But it is very intimidating because, you know, not unlike
14:28Wizard and I or Popular, you know, these are really important songs to a lot of people.
14:34And so, you know, but the key to me was to make sure we earn the emotion, again, earn the emotion
14:42as that song built. And so, and also how to have a firm grip with your audience. That way we don't
14:51lose them every time we stop and start that song. So if we have Elphaba singing for the first time
14:59and you want to feel that power of her, like wanting to rebel against Morrible, you know,
15:05who's, you know, talking down to her and calling her a monster. And then, you know, she ascends
15:15up the attic. And then we stop the song again for a moment in which, you know, the guards are
15:22interrupting. And then there's this moment of power with her getting the broom for the first time.
15:29And there's these moments where we're feeling the emotion of Glinda and Elphaba basically saying
15:34goodbye to each other. And taking our time with that, with these moments, you know,
15:42them saying goodbye and those tearful looks at each other. We're doing this all in the middle
15:46of the song. And so, we just have to hold the audience really tight dramatically in order in
15:52which we can get through these starts and stops of these songs. And otherwise, they're going to
15:58turn on you in a moment and, you know, and curse you as they walk out of the theater. And instead,
16:03we're like, okay, we're going to build up anticipation with these starts and stops. We're
16:07going to make sure that they're hold tightly emotionally. And we're going to keep building
16:11the song again and again and again. Every single time we stop, we're building up anticipation
16:17up to the very, very end. I mean, I think it's four or five times we stop the song.
16:22And for really dramatic moments, every single time, I get goosebumps thinking about how
16:31we did it collectively, VFX, sound, music, you know, editorial. But the key is to just
16:40hold the audience tight dramatically, build that emotion all the way up to that
16:46to be continued card. Well, let's thank our guests, the Oscar-nominated sound team of
16:52Wicked, Nancy Nugent Title, John Marquis, and Andy Nelson, as well as Oscar-nominated film
17:00editor Myron Kirstein. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.