In this episode of the Biscuits & Jam Podcast, Southern Living's Sid Evans gets to know Cody Johnson as he opens up about his Texas roots, music career, and formative life experiences. Raised in the small town of Sebastopol, Texas, Cody’s journey includes working in the prison system with his father, bull riding, and now, a thriving career in country music. Hear stories about his new song, “That’s Texas,” collaborating with Carrie Underwood, and even a funny tale about his grandma’s famous banana pudding!
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00:00Cody Johnson, welcome to biscuits and jam. Thanks. I appreciate it
00:04Where am I reaching you right now? You look like you might be on the road
00:08Yeah, we we started out in Alabama for Dean Dillon songwriters and stories tribute
00:15It was really cool. And then we
00:17Had to go to Nashville yesterday to do a ton of interviews
00:23Album release stuff and then last night we had a double number one party for
00:27the painter and dirt cheap at the BMI headquarters and
00:31Then we got on the bus at about midnight and drove to st. Paul, Minnesota for a show tonight
00:36We're in Kansas City, Missouri tomorrow. Oh, and you're on the bus right now. Yeah, I'm sitting in my house
00:41Well, yeah, I hope it's a I hope it's comfortable because it sounds like you're spending a lot of time on it
00:46Oh, yeah, this is this is my home away from home. Well, I want to talk about just start out
00:53About your your your real home back in, Texas
00:57You grew up around Huntsville, Texas, right? Yes, sir, and
01:03So this is about I think 70 miles or so north of Houston
01:09And I'm wondering if you were to drive through town
01:13Back when you were a kid
01:15Tell me what it what it looked like. Well, I grew up
01:19Towards Lake Livingston, which is about 30 40 minutes from Huntsville even for the further northeast and
01:25There was really a few schools to go to and uh, you know
01:29It's kind of what we call the open enrollment where you could you know, the county was so big you didn't have to go
01:33to one particular school, so I went to Grofton and
01:38When you drop their growth in Texas, there's a
01:41Brookshire Brothers, there's a little Mexican restaurant
01:43there's a car wash and a couple of gas stations and then there's
01:46The town square right in the middle with some hardware stores and some you know
01:51Lawyer firms and real estate stuff like that and that's unless you take a left and go to the football stadium in the school
01:56That's it. You're out it. You're already out of growth
02:01So not a lot not a lot there I guess it's probably a little bigger now I would think nope
02:09No, it stayed the same all these years I've been back a few times and visit, you know
02:14So I'm like my ag teacher is a pretty important person to me. Mr. Fortenberry and
02:19It ain't changed much I've gone to homecoming and it still looks the same and
02:24But you know whenever I got when I got older when I graduated I moved to Huntsville
02:28So that I could get a job, you know working for the state of Texas at the prison there and
02:34And so I called Huntsville home and it was obviously honestly
02:38It was just easier when people would say where you from and you could say Huntsville and they'd say oh the prisons
02:42Yeah, but if you take growth didn't they go?
02:45Where's the hell is broken?
02:48Well, what about the what about the house where you grew up
02:52What did that kind of look and feel like as a kid?
02:54We grew up down Pipeline Road and there was a it was a long dirt road and we lived at the very end of it
02:59we had a single wide trailer house that me and my dad had built on to with some rooms and
03:05Had a little chicken coop and a little barn and we lived on, you know
03:10Four or five acres there and most of the people that lived on that church for people that we you know went
03:14I mean on that church most of the people that lived on that road
03:17were people we went to church with their family members my grandma and grandpa live right down the road and
03:23It was the kind of place so that I went to growth them. But that little community I lived in was called, Sebastopol and
03:30Don't ask me to spell it. I live there my whole life and still can't spell it
03:34but it's right on the lake and it was the kind of place where
03:37You know, there was a store called Lawrence's
03:41About three miles down the road and it has gas station
03:44there was a little it had a grocery store and
03:47Mr. And mrs. Lawrence, you know work cows and bailed hay for a living plus the store and we had a little monthly tab
03:54Where mama could tell me to go to the store and I'd ride my bike down there and miss Lila would have
03:59All the grocery list stuff on the counter and I'd sign the ticket and she'd give me an ice cream
04:05I'd sit over and listen to the old men
04:07Talk about how it was too hot or too cold or we had too much rain or not enough rain
04:12And I can't bail. Hey, and I got too much hay to bail and and I'd ride my bike home, you know
04:16And it was it was very picturesque. It was very Mayberry growing up
04:20I mean, you know, you're not that old Cody, but it sort of sounds like something from the from the 50s
04:26Yeah, I mean, I'm only 37 but where I grew up it was definitely dated
04:30Yeah, I didn't get a cell phone till I was 18
04:33So, I mean we we lived pretty simple lives and you had a lot of family around us. So
04:39cousins or
04:42aunts and uncles
04:43Yep. Yep. We always had
04:45Growing up. We always had family around and you know, it's funny because it's such a stark
04:51Contrast of you know, we had you know, my dad had two brothers and you know
04:55They're married and kids and cousins and all this and my my mom, you know
05:00Her side of the family was pretty big and you know
05:02I think a lot of people have passed away over the years and you know, I grew up and have this career where
05:08You know, I'm gone all I'm going here and going there and I'm on a jet and then I'm on a bus and then I'm
05:13coming home and
05:14you know, it's a stark contrast to what I do now with the ranch in Texas because when I come home, it's I really don't
05:20See many people and I still my you know, my parents we see my parents a couple times a month
05:25But when I go home, it's pretty much about Brandy and those two girls. So yeah, I'm sure well Cody
05:32Who was doing all that cooking?
05:34In your family, well when I was a little kid, you know, you're talking
05:38You know infant to 12 years old my my grandmother my memo on my dad's side
05:45Really? She could man. She was a cook. She'd she drank a pot of coffee a day and
05:51All she did was cook read her Bible and drink coffee
05:54and I think you know in her lifetime, I think my dad told me she had read the Bible through 13 times and
06:01And
06:02She just drank coffee and cook and I can always remember her being there in her apron and she'd be singing just cooking and and
06:08It was it was a good southern food to everything had, you know
06:11Way too much starch and Velveeta and you know and flour and it was just you know
06:16by the time you get through eating you feel like you could roll over in the floor and just nap for 12 hours, but
06:22Now, you know my wife in my memo wasn't a she wasn't a small lady either
06:28Well, it's so funny cuz now my wife, you know, she's 110 pounds soaking wet but she cooks like she's a she eats all the
06:35time she's a
06:36Amazing cook when it comes to Thanksgiving or Christmas, man
06:39She gets it done and I'm like I try to help because I'm a decent cook myself, but I try
06:45I've just learned to stay out of Brandy's way when she's cooking
06:50Well, it sounds like maybe you picked up a few things from your grandmother, yeah, yeah, I definitely did what was her name
06:56Lois Faye Johnson Lois Faye and she went by Lois. She went by Lois, but to us she was ma'am
07:02Oh, so was there a dish in particular that kind of stands out for you that you really you know
07:07That reminds you of home my Nana on my mom's side. Her name was Jerleen
07:12Freeman and she you know, so she was Nana
07:15so she when we were growing up she'd always make banana pudding and it was homemade from scratch and she said that's Nana's pudding and
07:22I would always mean I'd look forward to every time we'd go to Nana's house
07:25I knew we was gonna get some Nana pudding and it wasn't till about I think I was about 15 or 6
07:31I think I was 16 years old cuz I drove myself up there to Nacogdoches and I'll never forget
07:35I started eating this pudding and I kind of looked at her and she she said what I said, this ain't homemade
07:40Is it she said you better not tell nobody she had bought it at the store and tried to pass it off and I I
07:45Caught it quick. I was like this ain't your homemade pudding. This is something you bought from the store
07:50And I never forget the shock of the fact that she would feed me something from the store she didn't make me so well
07:56I didn't have time to make it this
07:58Well, she wasn't expecting to get busted. I don't think I don't think so, but my taste buds told her different
08:06Well Cody I want to ask about your dad and and and the the prison
08:12That he worked at was this the state penitentiary?
08:16Yeah, so a lot of people don't realize that everybody thinks about Huntsville, Texas and they think you know, there's the one prison but
08:22In Walker County and and in to the surrounding counties, there's seven maximum security prisons right there
08:29All within about an hour drive of each other and each each prison has its own role for the state
08:38For instance downtown
08:39The walls unit is we call it the nursing home because it's where you know
08:44a bunch of you know when they've been in there for a long time and they get older and they need better medical care and
08:48Stuff and that's where they go. But that's also where they they
08:51Carry out the executions is at that prison
08:55If you go to Livingston, that's the Polonsky unit and that's where death row is
08:59If you go to holiday unit, that's where your transit your intake when you come into the system
09:06If you go to the bird unit, that's all of our transportation, you know as far as buses and trucks and all that
09:12If you go to the wind farm, you know, it's kind of a half transit half lifers, you know
09:18There's a maximum security area, but it has a big trustee farm
09:22With guys that work all over the city of Huntsville. And if you go further out of town, there's
09:28the the Ferguson unit and the East Ham unit and those are those are two very
09:33Very large very dangerous maximum security prisons and you know on the side of that
09:38There's the Ellis unit the Estelle unit that are kind of the same way
09:42so my dad started working for the
09:45State of Texas in the late 80s at East Ham and it was uh, it was a pretty pretty brutal environment
09:51You know, it wasn't there wasn't a whole lot of regulation back then and which one did you?
09:56Work for well started at holiday unit, which was you know your intake you never really know
10:02You might have a guy that got a DWI and then right behind him
10:06there's a capital murder case and
10:09you know this guy could have been a
10:11You know a sexual offender or whatever it is and you just kind of never know what you're getting
10:17and then from there I moved to the gory unit, which is a
10:21Sexual offender treatment program unit to where that's basically all that's housed at that unit
10:27Except for the trustee farm and I worked on the trustee farm
10:31Taking crews out to go mo clear fence lines, you know cut trees up pick up after storms
10:36You know just painting painting buildings doing whatever needed to be done
10:41and then
10:43From there. I moved to the wind farm and the wind farm
10:46I was a field boss where you work those guys that are your maximum security guys
10:50you take them out in the field and you you know, you you work them in the field picking vegetables or cotton or or
10:57Clearing fence lines and things like that
11:00But when I was working there overtime paid time and a half
11:04So I would get through with my job at you know
11:062 30 in the afternoon 3 o'clock in the afternoon something like that and I would drive out to East Ham or Ferguson and
11:12Clock in and work as many hours as they would let me work sometimes till midnight
11:16Just making you know extra money to pad the pad the paycheck and you're how old at this point?
11:21I started working there when I was 18. I mean Cody there can't be a whole lot of
11:28country stars
11:30That have that have done this
11:33I'm sure there's maybe there's a few but
11:37You know, you had to have taken away some pretty interesting lessons
11:41I mean, what are some things that you kind of learned?
11:45From that experience. I think discernment is a really good
11:51quality I can tell within about four words of talking to somebody what their intentions are and
11:57really decipher pretty quickly what they're after and whether it's from me or
12:02I can tell
12:04genuine people
12:05From you know, not genuine people very very quickly
12:09I developed a way to not only notice it but to monitor it in a way that they don't know that I'm monitoring it
12:16You know not playing dumb, but just a little bit of playing dumb and you know
12:21Let let them speak and tell you what their intentions are especially in the business world
12:26I've played dumb in front of a lot of big business meetings and walked away from it looked at my manager and went
12:32Nope, absolutely not because you can just tell that that maybe their intentions were we're not I
12:40Don't know honorable, I guess. Yeah, and also in
12:46Violent situations where you know
12:48Even even in the public whenever I'm in a place and I'm with my wife or my kids and I can see
12:53There's certain people I know to keep my eye on I always know the exits
12:57I always kind of scan the room. I pay attention to people's body language differently
13:02The way that they even even whenever I've been in
13:05Situations after working there where it's been somewhat of a volatile situation. I can really read
13:11Whether or not this guy's raising his voice and he's really going to do something or if it's the quiet guy in the corner
13:16That's actually going to do something
13:18and it's it's
13:20Helped me out a lot through my life of I'm a very very security minded person
13:25and it's it's one of the reasons why we've hired a security team this year is because
13:29With the massive crowds that I'm in now and the places that I'm going it's hard for me to be Cody Johnson and
13:35Still stay as security minded without people noticing it
13:39So I've hired those two guys to hey look
13:41this is how I want y'all to pay attention to these things and they're both former Marines and
13:46You know, they're I'm in good hands now, but for a while it bothered me that I couldn't be more security minded at my workplace
13:52Yeah, and well and it's also I
13:55Mean this experience has also kind of found its way into your music
14:00To had it. Yeah here and there
14:03You know, there's a song on my new
14:06record leathers, it's called Jesus loves you and it kind of
14:09Pokes at that prison thing a little bit and you know, there was old song
14:14I can't remember what record it was on. It's called guilty as can be and that was kind of a that was kind of a story
14:21That I
14:23amended just enough that it wasn't the actual story, but it was pretty much the story from a guy that worked for me while
14:31I was there and
14:33You know, it's funny because we don't Merle Haggard always saying about prison
14:37It's different when you're locked up there versus being the guard there, you know, and you know me and Jelly Roll have talked about it
14:43He said, you know
14:44We ought to me and you ought to go back and do a big go pick the maximum
14:47Security the worst one in Texas and go put on a concert. I said, yeah, they'll love you. I don't know if they'll love me
14:54Yeah, you were on the you were on the other side of that for a while
14:59Although I do think that'd be a pretty popular concert Cody. Yeah
15:03You know and Jelly Jelly and I've talked about it a lot
15:05The only difference between working there when you really work there and being locked up there is at the end of the day
15:10You get to go home
15:12But like Jelly was telling me he said, you know
15:14It's he said it seems like it'd be easier for me to be in my cell and to not have to leave but he's like
15:20you know having to leave and go home and then getting up the next morning and
15:24Intentionally coming back and being in that environment all day long. You know that it's it plays with your head a little bit and
15:32You know that it's not a it's not a glamorous job at all
15:36there's some stories that I'll probably never tell anybody, you know, there's
15:41But it wasn't all bad it was good I met some good people and and learned a lot of life lessons
15:47Well, I want to ask you about another
15:50Kind of area of your life that that seems to have had a huge influence on you
15:56And it's a kind of a guiding force in your life and and that's the church
16:01You know you you grew up spending a lot of time in the church and
16:06And I'm wondering where you where you went what was the you know, what was the physical place that you went
16:14When you were going to church
16:16Early on and what did it kind of look and feel like on a Sunday a little bitty country church called Friendship Harbor Church
16:22And you know, we were all very close-knit
16:25You know when I say a little country church, I mean, that's what it was
16:28you know, you're talking a hundred people and and
16:31Not like these big mega churches that you see on television now
16:36But it was just worship in the Bible
16:40One thing that was difficult for me growing up was I didn't realize it until I was older and I had kind of gone out
16:46my own way and
16:48Completely left church and kind of I won't say turn my back on God, but I dang sure didn't know where he was at
16:54He was looking if he was looking for me. I didn't know it
16:58Was I was I was raised in a very perfection
17:02Doctrine
17:03Which is great, you know, like I was always told, you know might hear the preacher say I don't want to just go to heaven
17:09I want to be in the hundred and forty four thousand in the light of rain
17:12It's like well heavens not good enough, you know
17:13And it kind of it was one of those cultures where
17:16If you went to Friday night to the football game and you drank a beer under the bleachers here. Oh, man, you're going to hell
17:23God God God's wrath is going to get you, you know, and if somebody went through a divorce in the church
17:29It was oh, they're out of there out there in the world, you know
17:32And devil's got him and I'm like it really ruined me a lot about had a little bit of church hurt
17:37For a long time and and I've heard that term
17:40Recently church hurt, but it is real
17:42To where you put so much pressure on an individual that they think that we're not worthy to talk to God and we're not ever
17:49Gonna be good enough and I've got news for anybody. Listen, we're all good enough
17:54you know
17:56Even Jesus himself said father, please let this cut pass for me. He said it three times begging. I don't want to do this. I
18:03Don't want to do this
18:04Even Jesus got mad in the in the temple and took a bullwhip to people and turned over tables and he got angry
18:10you know, there was he was uh, he was friends with sinners prostitutes and thieves and murderers and
18:16If you if you said that today like, you know, hey one of my best friends is a prostitute and my other best friends a murderer
18:22well, you'd be labeled as a pretty bad guy, but that was Jesus and I
18:26it's funny you mentioned that because I stopped going to church with my family because people would
18:32Just it was it turned into a huge meet-and-greet people wanted autographs. They'd take pictures and I said, I'm not doing that
18:39That's not you know, I'm not going. Well, what I did was I failed my wife right there
18:43Because I'm you know as a man you're supposed to be the leader of your home
18:47Especially in the spiritual sense and I left it to her and it caused a lot of issues caused a lot of problems that I didn't
18:53Even know until this last year in my marriage and we finally had to stop sit down together and go
18:59Hey, we've got to make some changes, you know, and I admit it
19:01I said I've failed you and here's why but we're gonna take these girls to church every Sunday morning
19:06We're gonna pray over every meal if we start to have an argument about something or if there's something difficult in our marriage
19:11We're not gonna argue. We're gonna pray together and we're gonna let God do his thing
19:16You know, we give God our finances. We give God our business and all this and
19:20It hit me. I started really reading my Bible every day and
19:24reading my devotionals every day and reading books that helped me and
19:28It's not about perfection. It's about faith with deeds and acting those deeds out and showing that you know, hey, I'm not in control
19:35This ain't Cody's world. This is this is his world and everything
19:38I've got is a blessing that comes from him and I'm gonna have faults and I'm gonna have failures and I'm gonna screw up
19:44I may say the wrong thing. I may do the wrong thing, but I'm not running from him anymore
19:49I'm running to him going. Hey, help me not to do that. I know I help me not to be that way
19:53What do I need to read?
19:54What do I need to do?
19:55To change that about Cody just to be a better person just a better man a better husband a better father
20:00It's funny how he sits there and waits on you
20:03no matter how bad you run off, you know, he still waits on you and
20:06And
20:07You know, I liken it to that horse at the house if he wants to run off, that's fine
20:11But hey when he gets hungry enough, he knows where this foods that he knows where that nourishment that he's eventually gonna come back to
20:17The barn and say I'm hungry. Can I please have something to eat?
20:21Cody you you also
20:26You seem to have
20:28gotten a lot of your early kind of musical
20:31Inspiration from the church and it was a really important place for you in terms of finding a voice
20:39and maybe
20:41Getting comfortable on a stage or kind of you know being exposed to
20:48the performance of music and what it can do
20:51Is that is that a fair thing to say?
20:53I don't remember a time of my life without music
20:56my mom and dad both saying both sides of the family all saying and played instruments and
21:00you know, I learned how to play the bass guitar from my dad and then I learned how to play drums from my dad and
21:07I I play the piano about halfway decent. I never really learned music
21:11I just play all by ear and by feel
21:14So even to this day when I'm in the studio and I'm directing a band
21:16I have to kind of have an interpreter
21:18To tell them exactly what I'm saying because I can hear it and I can sing it and I can and I know what it
21:23Is but I can't draw it out for you on paper
21:26But yeah, we would sing a lot in church and it was pretty obvious early on that I had a gift and
21:33One thing I learned in church singing
21:36Was that you could change?
21:37When you're singing in church, you're the thermostat you you change the temperature in the room
21:43And everyone else is just a thermometer and they're going off of what you say and do
21:47And so whenever I would sing something and make somebody
21:52You know raise their hands or they would come down for a prayer or whatever
21:56I knew that I'd been a vessel that was used to affect them
22:00The problem was I wanted to go to those honky-tonks and do the same thing
22:04And I did
22:07Gotcha. Well, yes, which probably you know was not
22:11you know that I was probably frowned upon a little bit by
22:15Some of the church folks. Yeah, what denomination was this just a non-denominational just a country Bible Church
22:21Okay. Well your dad
22:24Your dad played the piano, right? Yeah, he plays like Floyd Kramer good
22:32A lot of your musical journey is kind of
22:35Connected to your dad
22:37You know, he played
22:39He played in your band played drums with you for a while
22:43How would you describe your musical connection to him dad all he was just always so talented he was really good at the bass guitar and
22:52You know it he we always listened to that's where I heard
22:56Charlie Daniels and Leonard Skinner and Merle Haggard and George Jones and Waylon Jennings for the first time was, you know, my dad Rodney Corral
23:04You know Elvis Presley all those sounds
23:07Ray Price
23:09You know Glenn Campbell that was all those things that influenced me was my dad
23:14you know playing that kind of music growing up and I just had this love this this crazy passionate love for country music and I
23:21Knew I always wanted to sing
23:23I just didn't know how or when you know when you're a kid growing up where I grow up you think
23:28Being a big country music star is like trying to be like an astronaut. Like it's probably not in your cards, you know and
23:35You know, my dad always
23:37Supported me musically no matter what I wanted to do and we spent a lot of nights out in the garage with you know
23:43playing guitar and drums and bass and just just you know inviting people over to just play and I
23:49think that that's where the bug really got a hold of me and
23:53And he played bass in my band not drums
23:55but he played bass for quite a while and we were just a three-piece and we'd go play all the
24:01honky-tonks and bars and and
24:03Every marina that would have a band and we'd play four-hour sets and play every cover song we could possibly think of and
24:12You know, and then after a while dad was like, hey, you know, I gotta quit doing this, you know
24:16I can't be doing all this and just I got to get out
24:20So we got another bass player and then we found a guitar player and it's just that all of a sudden it just started snowballing
24:25We just started building the band and guys would be on for a while and they would fall off and we'd get another one
24:30Somebody be on for a while and they'd quit and we'd get another one. So I mean and that's that's how the band was built
24:36Well, it sounds like your dad could kind of play play a little bit of anything. Oh, yeah. Yeah hundred percent
24:42I want to get to music in a minute
24:44But but before we do that, I just wanted to talk about rodeo for a second and your involvement in that
24:51Was your dad did your dad kind of lead you into that as well? No, I am
24:58I'm a first-generation
24:59Rodeo cowboy and rancher in my family. I always knew from the time. I was a little kid
25:04You know, I will I will have horses and cows and I'm gonna rodeo
25:09But we didn't have money for that kind of stuff
25:12so I paired up with a bunch of guys whenever I finally got to high school that rodeoed and I started riding bulls and
25:18I took this all upon myself. The only guidance I had was my AG teacher Larry Fortenberry. He encouraged me to rodeo
25:26he helped me learn how to ride bulls and and
25:29swing a rope and and to teach me about the cattle industry and and
25:34agriculture, you know as far as how to how to manage land and things like that and
25:38You know, I always knew it was coming but you have to be able to afford that kind of stuff
25:42I had a altercation altercation but a little bit of altercation with a guy last year that smarted off
25:46I'm a fifth generation rancher and I said well
25:50You know what's harder than being a fifth generation rancher a first generation when you have to do it all yourself
25:54And nothing got handed to you and it's the truth, you know, every blade of grass every tractor every bale of hay. It's all
26:01Something that you work for yourself and I take a lot of pride in that it
26:05The rodeo world taught me a lot and I still compete
26:08very competitively in the team roping world now and we're breeding cutting horses and a professional rope and performance horses and we we raise
26:16Braiford calves at my place and you know, we've got a Hereford bull and Brommer cows and
26:20We do hay production and so it's a we're full-blown my kids old my kids will be able to say well
26:27We're ranchers because daddy was a rancher
26:29which is what I always wanted you talked about some of your
26:33musical heroes a minute ago
26:37You know Willie and Waylon and George straight people like that
26:41Did you have a rodeo hero that kind of inspired you to get into it? Crystal do?
26:47Crystal do was the guy that he was the awesome bareback rider world champion, you know
26:53freaking larger-than-life legend cowboy
26:56But then he still had a record deal in Nashville and was playing shows and I thought that's pretty dang cool right there
27:01You know
27:03he was pretty inspiring and I listened to a lot of his music as a kid going up and down the roads to different rodeos and
27:09It definitely inspired me to keep chasing both dreams
27:12Riding a bull the idea of riding a bull is kind of unimaginable to me
27:16I mean why anybody would get on one of those things?
27:21Is is beyond me, but you've done a lot of it
27:26and
27:27I'm wondering if there's a particular
27:31bull a particular ride
27:34That kind of stands out in your memory. Well, I want to be pretty clear. I was always the worst bull rider in the car
27:42The guys that I surrounded myself with were
27:45Were very very talented and they knew they'd been doing it since they were little kids
27:50You know riding steers and riding calves and working their way up whenever I started riding
27:54I just kind of was like, uh, it's almost like I got thrown right in the middle of the lines then
28:00So I was getting on bulls that were
28:04Way too much for me at the time and you know
28:07My buddy Codrick that I still talk to all the time
28:10We stay in touch and we got to talking about it this year at my birthday
28:15we were sitting up having a cold beer and
28:17Reminiscing old times and and he said, you know, what was crazy about you is he said you didn't have the natural talent for it
28:24That the rest of us were probably born with
28:27He said but you had more grit and more determination and heart than any of us put together
28:33He said but we all knew
28:34that you were just doing it to do it and that music music was gonna be we all knew every time you play the guitar
28:39And saying we were like, yeah, he's gonna be a country music star
28:42He said but we didn't want to tell you that, you know, cuz you're out there riding bulls with us and Codrick told me
28:47He said what's funny?
28:48What's interesting about you is he said the bulls the easy bulls that you were supposed to ride
28:52You'd always buck off of and he said the ones that you were not supposed to ride when we get to the rodeo and you'd
28:58And we'd look at the draw and see what you drew
29:00We'd think God he's gonna he's gonna get murdered he's gonna die this is he's gonna he's gonna wind up in the hospital
29:06He said that's the bulls that you wrote
29:08And he said that told me a lot about yourself is that he said I figured out that you you always needed
29:14To be the underdog and to have more of a challenge to fight back harder
29:19And I can tell you every one of them, you know
29:22all those bulls that I rode that I did place and win and all that they were bulls that I
29:28Shouldn't have rode but I rode the dog crap out of them and then I'd go get on one that was supposed to be really
29:33Easy and I'd wind up on my face. I
29:38Think I needed more of a I needed something to fight. I needed something to fight back, too
29:42Well, you seem to have emerged from it. Okay, thankfully I'm limping around at 37. I'm still feeling some of it
29:49All right, Cody. I've got a few quick ones for you. And then I want to talk music
29:54All right, so first question
29:58Is Texas part of the South no, Texas is Texas
30:04It's its own place once you uh
30:06Once you go across that Red River or that Sabine River, then you then you might be arguably in the South
30:12but when you get to Texas, you're just in Texas and it's funny because last year we went to Australia and
30:18To go play shows with Luke Combs and whatever. They'd say where you where you from mate
30:23None of us none of us said
30:26America none of us said the USA we all said Texas and I and it as soon as it happened
30:30I was like, well that says it all right there
30:33second question
30:34What in your opinion is the best place to find Texas barbecue?
30:38And what do you order when you get there man as much as I'd hate the traffic and and kind of the culture of the city
30:47Anywhere near Austin. It's probably some of the best barbecue and I mean you've got people
30:52World-renowned guys and women that devote their life
30:57Literally to barbecue and it it's some of the most amazing stuff. There's a place in Elgin, Texas is near Austin
31:03called Southside meat market and
31:05They have something that's called hot guts and you can order them by the pound and I'm talking about it
31:10Some of the best brisket sausage you've ever had in your life
31:13I've been eating it since I was a little kid my papa and I used to drive over and get it get it and drive
31:18back
31:19That's pretty Texan that's about as Texan as it gets when you drive three hours to get barbecue and then go back home
31:25All right last last quick one. What's your favorite?
31:28Tattoo if you have one, um, really a minute it
31:32my whole right arm is
31:34It's from here to here and each piece tells a story
31:38I've got you know, my rockin CJB, which is the band
31:42we've got the chaos by Carol's which is a
31:46Organization that I'm a member of and obviously the the bull logo I keep all those things on my hand for accountability purposes
31:54You know
31:55People I have to live that I have to support
31:59the standard that I have to live up to and
32:02Up my arm. I've got pine trees for where I grew up in East, Texas
32:06And I've got red feathers for you know, we're growth in Indians and and then from here on up
32:12I've got you know, my sunshine, you know, Clara may my oldest daughter and then I've got my rose for Corey and then all here
32:20I've got
32:20Jasmine vines and and and blackberries for they bloom every year around Brandy's birthday
32:26and and I've got my brand my ranch brand the J bar see on the back of my arm and
32:30Each one of those things all has a significance for me. So it's hard to pick out anyone. You can't pick a favorite
32:35Yeah, well the most I'll just tell you the most odd is the bottom of my foot
32:40That's the truth
32:42I had my tattoo artist out on the road and after the show we may or may not have had a few drinks and
32:48I asked him what's the weirdest thing? He's ever tattooed and he told me some things
32:53I'm not gonna say on this podcast, but I was like, well, what haven't you tattooed and he said well
32:58I've never done the bottom of a foot
33:00And so we've one of my favorite Waylon Jennings songs is I've always been crazy and in the second verse
33:05He says I've always been different with one foot over a line
33:08So if you were a carpenter you would write one foot over a line and I've got that on the bottom of my foot like
33:14an idiot
33:16That's great, that's great
33:19That had to hurt though. Well, not at the time if you know what I mean
33:25It hurt the next day along with my head. All right. Well, I want to ask you about a couple songs and
33:33The obvious one to ask you about especially given this conversation
33:38Is a great new song called. That's Texas
33:41And you played it. I think you played it for the first time at the CMT Awards
33:47live
33:49Just tell me what kind of reaction do you get when you play that song?
33:52And especially when you're in the Lone Star State when I was coming up through music
33:56I was told very very quickly in Nashville that I would never make it because I was just a Texas artist and I had a
34:03Cowboy hat on and my music was too country and basically you're gonna need a new producer and you're gonna have to put you know
34:10snap tracks in your music and
34:11Comb your hair different and wear skinny jeans and kind of have this look to make it
34:16And I just I just I wasn't gonna do that
34:19So I went home and and built my own brand and for years and years and years we would not play
34:25Anything that had the word Texas in it because we didn't want to be labeled as a Texas country artist
34:31Really or a Texas band? Oh, yeah, it's just a band from Texas, you know
34:35I mean, how would you feel if somebody said yeah, he does podcast, but he's just this, you know
34:40He just does this podcast, you know
34:43It kind of puts that stigmatism on you
34:44So and it and when we came around to choosing music for this record that song that's Texas comes across and you know
34:51I said, you know what? I'm at a point in my career where I can sing whatever I want and you're damn, right
34:56I'm from Texas. And so I think this song took a turn of where it's more like Sweet Home, Alabama
35:03Like you don't just play Sweet Home, Alabama in Alabama you play it right anywhere in Australia
35:09Yeah, we played that's Texas in Nashville and people went crazy and I went boy if that ain't full circle. I don't know what is
35:17Well, it's a great song and I just it's it's you can't hear it and and not move a little bit
35:24It's just got a you know, a great great beat to it and just you know, a lot of fun
35:30So you must have fun playing it. Oh, yeah, it's frowdy. So Cody you got a new song out
35:37Called I'm gonna love you with Carrie Underwood
35:41and
35:43You know you are
35:46Selling out. I mean big big, you know crowds these days
35:52and
35:54You know
35:56You're traveling all over the place and you've got you know, a million fans out there, but to
36:02To partner with Carrie Underwood had to be a big deal for you
36:07You know, she's been at this a long time and she's about as big as they they get
36:13What was it like to you to to be able to do this song with her
36:18She has been so great to work with I think people have preconceived notions about what a big star is like and
36:26She's not that she is very down-to-earth very easy to work with and so so talented and so gracious
36:33I mean even down to the point of like
36:35Hey, what colors are you wearing for the music video? So I don't wear something stupid and it's in here
36:40I'll send you some pictures of what I'm wearing. Okay. Thanks. I appreciate it, buddy
36:43And you know, and it's just it's it's like having a friend that you didn't know you had
36:48It's also really fun to sing with someone that challenges you
36:52To know what caliber of vocalist that she is
36:56That helps me set my game up. You know, it it's been a real pleasure and she's uh
37:01She's she's gone above and beyond. I mean even when we did the music video
37:05I mean we worked in there for 12 hours that day and she never
37:07Never took the smile off her face and never complained and and I thought man
37:12What what a great deal and I think that also speaks to the song too
37:15And it speaks to the point where I'm at in my career where someone like Carrie would say yeah, I'm in
37:22And the song period first before me before Carrie
37:26The song is so well written and the melody is so great that I mean, it's just it's a powerhouse by itself
37:34I mean if I played you the demo of it, you would you would love it just as much but
37:38Then you get me and Carrie together on it and it just it took it to another level. Well, it must be fun
37:43To be rolling that out. Y'all have any plans to perform it together in the near future. We've talked about it
37:50I mean, obviously it debuted in the top 30
37:53And we all kind of know what that means when a song does something like that. We're like, okay
37:58It's headed to some pretty big some pretty big heights
38:01So we've kind of been looking at schedules of like where where do we perform this together?
38:06Are we you know, do we concentrate on just you know?
38:10Like your big events TV events or award shows and stuff like that or do do I do I fly you into here or do?
38:16I fly in to meet you here or you know, and we're obviously gonna have and I've done something
38:22Starting next year. We're gonna have we have video walls at my shows in these hockey and basketball arenas
38:27To where we've got a video of Carrie singing the song and we're gonna actually get to let the fans experience
38:34Seeing her sing her part even though she's not here because it would be kind of weird to play the song without her and I'm
38:39Not into all that digital crap like that ain't my game
38:42But when you have something that's big you kind of have to cater to that situation. Well, that sure would be
38:48Exciting for folks if y'all were to pull that off and I'm sure you will
38:53So Cody this is going to come out close to Christmas. So I got to just ask you a couple of
39:00Christmas songs
39:03When you were growing up
39:05Was this a big deal in your house Christmas?
39:08Well, yeah, I mean anything that had to do with music, you know, Halloween and Thanksgiving don't have music and in my family
39:14Everything revolved around music. So at Christmas time, we had a whole new set list of stuff to play
39:19Who's the most excited person in your house when it comes to Christmas these days? Oh, man, both my daughters. It's crazy
39:25I'm not gonna say too much because in case my kids listen to it
39:28but my oldest daughter has already kind of figured things out if you know what I mean, and
39:34I'm like, hey, you better keep your mouth shut because your little sister still has all the magical ideas
39:40So just leave it alone, you know, and I was it right before I got on the phone with you
39:45I was actually talking to both of them and all that dad
39:49Lenny Wilson's new clothes came out in Boot Barn and I was wondering if I could have some of that for Christmas, you know
39:53They're already they're already on Christmas. So
39:57Well, there's you know, there's parents Christmas and then there's Santa, you know, that's a whole other thing
40:01So that's a whole different deal, man. Yeah, I saw you perform a version of Merle Haggard song
40:08If we make it through
40:10December
40:12And I'm wondering if that's a favorite of yours or if that has any special meaning to you when I was working
40:18Brandy and I just got married very broke newlyweds, you know, you're mixing
40:23ramen noodles and mac and cheese and a little bit of hamburger meat for your meals and
40:28We'd gone to my parents
40:31For Christmas week in a relative's
40:34Christmas card I put
40:36$20. It was last $20. I had my wallet
40:38I put $20 in there and on the way home
40:40You know the low fuel light comes on and we didn't have debit cards and credit cards and things like that
40:45And we she said, you know, that was that was it. That's all we had
40:49till the first of the year or the first of the month and
40:53It was kind of depressing because I felt like you know
40:56What if I drug this girl into she married this guy that can't even afford to stop and get fuel and you know
41:01I wonder if she's doubting me or you know all these things and so we kind of had a
41:05you know a teary moment, you know get home and I'm standing out in the yard and
41:10Crying a little bit about you know, like where you know
41:12This sucks so bad and and on the way home Merle Haggard if we make it through December comes on the radio
41:17Well, of course now we're both crying because it you know, we're wondering are we gonna actually make it through December and at the time?
41:25I'm with BMI now, but at the time I was with ASCAP for my publishing and as an independent artist. There's a lot of
41:32We've we've since we've since taken things to a court and got them changed
41:37but back then they didn't really pay independent artists very consistently and
41:41I went to the mailbox for some reason and I pulled out two
41:45$2,500 checks from ASCAP and
41:47So that that song has always ever been ever ingrained in my mind of if we're gonna make it through December, but we did
41:54That's a great story and
41:57Probably a lot has a lot better ending than you know, the one that Merle Haggard had. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're still here
42:05Well Cody, I just have one more question for you
42:09What does it mean to you to be a Texan
42:12It means everything
42:14Because you know, we were we as Texans were a country first
42:19there was you know, Native American Wars there was
42:24Mexican Wars there was a lot of
42:26Sacrifice on all sides to create what this thing that we call Texas is
42:31There were people that marched from Tennessee and all over the south to come and help defend the Alamo
42:38For Texas independence and you know it in Huntsville, Texas. There's a big statue of Sam Houston
42:44You know with you know
42:45People don't recognize that if that man hadn't had the vision that he had for the state of Texas
42:50We wouldn't have been Texas
42:51We'd have been split up into different territories. Mostly probably of it would have went to Mexico
42:57And it reshaped America
42:59And I think that that's a very very
43:02Important thing to instill when you are Texas Texan in your kids to say look we have a different sense of pride
43:08Than a lot of other states
43:10And we still do everything's everything's bigger and better in Texas. You know the slogan don't mess with Texas
43:15And I've got a big tattoo right here of Texas over my heart
43:19But it's it's probably where I'll always I'll always stay great to hear and you don't get much more committed than that that tattoo
43:28No
43:30Well, Cody Johnson
43:31Congrats on the new music and the tour and everything you have going on and is great talking to you
43:37And thanks so much for being on biscuits and jam
43:40Thanks that I appreciate your time
43:48You