Phil is back to discuss Sunderland's 2-1 win over Sheffield United and to answer questions from fans
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00:00Good morning everyone and welcome to the latest episode of On The Whistle, where we're going
00:18to talk about Sunderland 2, Sheffield United 1. A massive night, I think it's fair to say,
00:23in Sunderland's season. But I just wanted to start by wishing you and your loved ones
00:26all a very, very happy new year. Hopefully 2025 is a peaceful and fulfilling year for
00:32all of you. Yeah, I thought it was a huge win for Sunderland last night. I think when
00:38you looked at the table coming into the game, off the back of Concede and later Blackburn
00:42and Stoke, I think Leeds had stretched their lead out to seven points going into the New
00:47Year's Day's fixtures. You looked at Sheffield United, who I think had a five-point advantage
00:51going into the game. I think if Sunderland had lost last night particularly, it would
00:54have been very, very difficult to see them overhauling those three teams above them.
00:58And then with Leeds and Burnley dropping points in the three o'clock fixtures, it felt like
01:01a real opportunity for Sunderland. Both teams really heavily impacted by injuries at the
01:07moment. I think you could see that at times in the game. But I think for the Sunderland
01:10team, with all the players that are missing to go and win the game, I think was a huge
01:17result. And I think both Regis Lebris and his players deserve a huge amount of credit.
01:21Spoke about it with James. Hopefully you'll have watched our instant reaction video from
01:25the press box last night. I thought the win was based on a really brave decision from
01:29Lebris, really. And two aspects of it. One was in his press conference ahead of this
01:35game. He was asked about Eliezer Miendo and whether he would potentially take him out
01:39of the team after those couple of quite costly misses against Blackburn and Stoke. Lebris
01:43was unusually animated and unusually strong. You know he's not a very emotive person in
01:48his response. Saying how important it was to back young players. How important it was
01:53to sort of not get too sucked into, especially up front and in goal, which he says are the
01:57two hardest positions on the pitch where mistakes are magnified. Not to get too carried away.
02:01Made it very clear that he was going to pick Miendo and that he trusted him. I thought that
02:05was a real obvious public showing of faith in Miendo. And he was of course totally rewarded
02:10with Miendo's excellent performance throughout the game. It was also an excellent decision
02:14to change formation a little bit. You know it would have been very easy for him to stick with
02:19his kind of settled and trusted formula. Move Aucic into a central area and play Miendo again
02:23off the left. But I think we've seen it times in recent weeks that it's not positioned Miendo's
02:27comfortable in. A big, big risk to essentially potentially give Sheffield United control of
02:31the midfield by taking a player out there and putting another player up front. But I thought
02:35it was a game plan that worked perfectly. A lot of credit has to go to Dan Neal and Joe
02:39Bellingham. Because I think when you play, any time in the modern game where you play with a
02:42two-man midfield, you ask them to do a huge amount of running and you put them under a lot
02:46of pressure to win their duels. And then you sort of magnify that when you're playing against a team
02:50of Sheffield United's quality. So I think for those two to put in the performance that they
02:53did was a big bedrock of what the other players elsewhere on the pitch were going to do.
02:58Did Sunderland deserve the win? I think they did just about. I think Chris Wilder was
03:02interested after the game. He praised Sunderland for their, I mean two aspects of the game. One,
03:05the way they punished Sheffield United's sloppiness in possession and countered in the first half.
03:10And also the way they defended later on. He did say as well that he felt that if maybe some
03:15Sunderland fans and some people at Sunderland felt they maybe should have got more from the return
03:18fixture at Bramall Lane, which I definitely agree with, then he maybe felt that their pressure in
03:22the second half deserved a point. I can see where he's coming from. I thought it was a really,
03:26really tight game. The second half, I felt like it was a bit of a sort of high wire act.
03:30Sheffield United looked dangerous, of course. They had so much ball, so much territory,
03:34so many crosses into the box. You felt like they could get a goal at any time. But I always
03:38actually felt that Sunderland could score on the break as well. And I felt that in a strange kind
03:42of way, Sunderland were happy with where the game was because there was so much space on the break.
03:46And I think they always felt that they could go and finish it off. As it happened,
03:49neither team was able to get the goal. So, yeah, a tight game. It was one that could have gone
03:53either way. But I do think that it was a Sunderland's game plan was perfect, really. And I
03:57think they just about deserved the win. And maybe they were due a little bit of luck that sort of
04:01deserted them in recent weeks. So a really big night in the Sunderland season and hopefully
04:05something they can go and kick on from. Now, as you know, we take your questions and comments on
04:10the whistle. So I'm going to go through them now and I'm going to start with something that so many
04:14of you asked about. So I'm just going to put your questions into one. I'll read through them now and
04:18we'll have a little discussion about it. And that was the change of formation last night. So Peter
04:22says two up front, a momentary response to injuries and opposition or something to expect often.
04:27So Stelix says, what was RLB thinking about behind the tactical change in this game?
04:314-4-2 worked brilliantly and both Mienda and Isidor caused Sheffield United all sorts of
04:36problems. Danson Radio says, is 4-4-2 the best formation as per Mike Bassett? Always love a Mike
04:43Bassett reference on the whistle. Righty214 says, is 4-4-2 the way forward? And then Max
04:51Steele also says, Phil, you mentioned in a previous episode how you felt RLB might not trust
04:55Adil Aoushi centrally. Do you think that may have been the reason for a switch in formation or can
05:00we expect to have two up front as a backup plan going forward? So we spoke to Labreece after the
05:05game in his post-match press conference about how he came up with this strategy. I think it was based
05:10first and foremost on the fact that he knew that Sheffield United were going to have a lot of the
05:15ball. I think you look at Sheffield United's midfield, they've obviously got a huge amount
05:18of talented players in there. And I think he felt that Sunderland's biggest threat in the game was
05:23going to be on the break with the pace that they have. And so I think that the 4-4-2 was designed
05:27specifically, really, so that when Sunderland won the ball back, and we saw this a lot, particularly
05:31with Daniel and Joe Bellingham, then he felt that the best option with the players he had available
05:36was to utilise Meander and Isidore's pace on the break. And I think, fair play, because it's not
05:41very often that kind of what you have in your head before a game works out pretty much exactly as
05:45you hoped it would. But I think we saw from the start, I thought while defensively he was excellent
05:49as well, Chris Mepham's work on the ball in the first half was so important to the way that
05:54Sunderland attacks Sheffield United. Those little early passes he plays over the top, I thought
05:58Sheffield United really struggled to deal with it. Yes, there's a big error for the first goal where
06:01Jack Robinson fails to make the clearance, but I think it all stems again from Mepham putting
06:06them under pressure from Isidore and Meander being in the right position. So in short, I think there
06:11was two elements to it. One was that he really felt that Sheffield United could be vulnerable
06:14on the break. I do think the other aspect of it was with the players available. So as I explained,
06:18I think he basically had two options, which was to move Aushish in field and to move Meander out
06:22wide or to play Meander through the middle. I think we've seen enough evidence now that
06:27generally speaking, he doesn't like to play Aushish in central areas. He prefers him out wide.
06:31I think he feels that's where, I think Aushish, although we saw in this game, we'll speak about
06:36it later, he is a real, real grafter and he does get up and down. I think he prefers his slightly
06:41more off-the-cuff Maverick style out wide. And I also think he maybe felt that with Meander,
06:47because he was a little bit short of confidence, because he's had a tricky couple of games,
06:50I think he just wanted to simplify things for the next time as well, put him in his favourite
06:53position, given that sort of confidence. And I think that was part of it as well. And I thought
07:00that was a really, really good decision because it was also a game in which, because Sheffield
07:03United had a lot of the ball and a lot of players in front of the ball, there was space for Meander.
07:07And I think what we've seen is that when there's space in the game, space for him to run into,
07:10he is an incredibly dangerous player. So I think in short, the 4-4-2 was primarily a response to
07:18the players Lebris had available. I think that was the best way he felt he could put out the team,
07:23given all the players that were absent. I also think it was a little bit of a strategy,
07:28specifically designed to play a bit more of a direct and a bit more of a counter-attacking
07:32style than we would probably see someone at home. After the game, Lebris did say that, although he
07:36couldn't remember the game at the time, there was a game earlier this season where he finished with
07:40two up front in a similar kind of shape. And he did say that he liked the feel of it, he liked
07:44the look of it, and it was something that he'd thought then would be a bit of a backup plan.
07:49Don't forget as well that at the start of pre-season, this is a little bit what the shape
07:53looked like, but Job was the second striker. It was actually when Alan Brown got injured in the
07:56first game of the season and Chris Rigg came in at the start on 11, that Lebris really moved things
08:01around a bit and dropped Job a bit deeper. So in answer to those of you asking if I think it'll be
08:05something we see regularly moving forward, I definitely don't think it's going to be regularly
08:08moving forward. I think especially at home, it's going to be rare for someone to have this
08:12possession in games. And I think that will require a different shape. I think generally speaking,
08:16the 4-3-3 has worked really well. And I think it's very, very difficult to imagine Rigg, Job
08:21or Dan Neil being left out of the side. So I definitely think that 4-3-3 is the template
08:25moving forward. I think this was specifically a response to the injuries and the opposition.
08:30Having said that, I definitely think it's something in Lebris' mind that is a plan B,
08:35if you like. So I wouldn't be surprised if at some stage we see it used again.
08:39Realistically, looking ahead to Sunday and the visit of Portsmouth, I'm not expecting any of
08:43Sunderland's injured players back for that game. So it might be something that we see again then.
08:48That's going to be really interesting because that is going to be a totally different kind of game.
08:51I don't envisage Portsmouth having anywhere near the same level of possession as Sheffield
08:55United. I don't envisage them having anywhere near as high a defensive line as Sheffield
08:59United did in this game. So that'll be interesting if Sunderland do stick with this formation,
09:03which you think Lebris will probably have to. Will we see some of the challenges of playing
09:07this way against a bit more of a low block and losing that sort of creative midfielder who can
09:11unpick defences a little bit? So that's definitely one to watch. I don't think it's something we can
09:16expect to see week in, week out, but it's definitely a plan B, if you like. I certainly think that is,
09:22although Miander certainly thrived, I actually think Isidore enjoyed having someone up there
09:27with him and not being quite so isolated as we have seen him at times. So Rob Cronin says,
09:35not the most notable takeaway from the game, but worth flagging that Aushish had another good
09:38showing in my opinion. He's a battler, but also has a touch of class at times. If he could just
09:42be a little bit more consistent, he'd be great. Definitely earned his minutes recently. Shiny Tom
09:48also says, great to see Eliezer Miander come good. Totally agree. Praise must be given to
09:52the ideal Aushish performances over the games he started. I appreciate the pecking order when
09:57everyone is fit, et cetera, but do you think he's shown enough to be retained? So yeah, I thought
10:01Aushish had a good game last night, especially in the first half. I think fair play to Aushish.
10:06What he has shown is that he will put a big shift in. He got up and down that left wing all the time
10:10and give Adjie Elise a lot of defensive support. And ultimately that's the reason why Aushish has
10:15played his way back into contention, I think, is because he's shown that he will put a shift in.
10:19You know, I don't think anyone's doubting his creative ability, his ability to pick a pass,
10:23play a good cross. And I think the fact that he's shown that he can definitely do the defensive
10:28side of the game is why he's backing La Bresa's plans at the moment. I thought he tailed off a
10:31little bit in the second half. I don't know whether it was a little bit of fatigue. He's
10:34obviously gone from barely playing any football to playing sort of two 90 minutes in a matter
10:38of days. So I think it was kind of inevitable that he looked to run out a little bit of steam
10:41in the second half. I think you could see that in his decision making, but generally speaking,
10:45another good performance. As to whether I think he'll be retained, I think it's an interesting
10:49one, Tom. I think the crucial thing is that Sonnen don't rush into any decisions. I think
10:53realistically now that the transfer window is open, if a team was to come in for, say, Abdullah
10:57Bahr, maybe even Nazir Hussain, I think you could just accept that they're not in La Bresa's plans.
11:01It would probably be the best thing to sort of look to get them to move. I think at the moment,
11:05realistically, Sonnen can't afford to let Aoushish go. They don't have enough bodies.
11:10He's got too important a role in the squad, whether that's from the start or as an impact
11:13substitute right now. So I think it's one that Sonnen just have to wait and see how the window
11:17develops. Now, as good as Aoushish has been, and I think he's shown he can be an option specifically
11:21in that left wing position, it might be that by the end of the transfer window, Sonnen have
11:26recruited more players in that position. Romain Mundel should be fit and playing again. By the end
11:31of January, Tommy Watson won't be far off coming back. Now, in that scenario, we could be back to
11:35a position where Aoushish is fairly well down in pecking order. In my opinion, in that scenario,
11:39it's not fair to ask him to hang around if he's got no chance of game time. A player of his ability
11:44deserves to be playing more often, and especially with the graft he's shown recently, to get his
11:48way back into contention. So I would love to see Aoushish stay, but I think it's still potentially
11:53going to be the right thing to do to let him go. Having said that, I don't think there's any need
11:57to rush into a decision on that one. January's quite a long time, there's a lot of games,
12:01and I think that's one where Sonnen should take a breath at the end of the window and work out
12:05what's best for all parties. I think he's got an important role to play in the next few weeks,
12:09and I think we've seen that he can be trusted to do that, and that's to his credit. Carl Bridgeworth
12:14said, do you feel we raise our game against the better sides in the league, or are we better suited
12:18to the playing styles? Better sides generally avoid the low block and we have more space to
12:22work with. Yeah, I think it's definitely the case, if you speak to pretty much any manager
12:26in this division as I do, after all the games and the post-match press conferences, the one
12:31thing they all mention about Sonnen is their threat on the counter. Sonnen undoubtedly have
12:34a reputation of being one of the best counter-attacking sides in this division. I think
12:38we've seen for a long time now that their wide players in particular are such a threat on the
12:43break, whether that's Clark and Roberts, whether this year it's Mundell, even Tommy Watson coming
12:47into that picture now. It's something they've definitely got a reputation for, and a lot of
12:51players thrive on that space. I think sometimes it definitely suits them to play against a higher
12:55line. I think that's been magnified even more this season by the fact that they're sent forward,
13:00as you've seen, as someone who loves space to run into. But that's the perfect game for Issa
13:05Doe, he caused the back four so many problems. So I definitely think that Sonnen are more suited
13:09to playing in these kind of open games, Carl, I agree. I think teams who get up the pitch and have
13:14a lot of the ball actually give them a lot of space and a lot of trouble. The one thing I would
13:17say is sometimes someone can look really hard work playing against a low block, but to be fair,
13:22on the main, their results at home against teams low down in the table this season have been very,
13:27very good. So I hope, while it hasn't always looked totally convincing, I think it is definitely
13:31something they are slowly developing. But I agree with you totally, Carl, I think all things being
13:35equal, this is the kind of game they love, an open game with lots of space. I think the way
13:39the squad's designed, it works perfectly.
13:42Robert says, is Salis Abdul Samad a figment of our imagination? I can understand everyone's
13:51desperate to see Salis Abdul Samad make his debut. Well, the good news is he returned to training
13:56last week. He's now in full training, full contact training. So, I've spoken to Labriez about it,
14:02obviously, we have to, everybody, touch wood. Fingers crossed he'll be back playing in the next
14:09couple of weeks. I think some are going to be cautious because it's about six months since he
14:12played competitive football now, so they do need to be a bit careful. But Labriez has mentioned
14:16the Stoke game in the FA Cup as a possible day for his return. If not, he should be in the squad
14:21the week after. So, I promise you that the Salis Abdul Samad debut is coming. I know it feels a
14:27little bit hard to believe at times, but we are almost there. So, Ross says, where's Sheffield
14:33United the best team we've seen at the SOL this season? If so, does that make it the best
14:37performance in terms of guts of the season? I think there's definitely a strong argument for
14:41being the best performance and result of the season, just because of when you look at the
14:44players that were missing. I know Sheffield United would say that they have seven or eight key
14:48players missing as well, and that was definitely a factor. But I think when you look at their start
14:53in 11, it was still very, very, very strong and they brought some good players off the bench as
14:57well, especially that first double substitution. So, I think in terms of the personnel, I think
15:01that probably is Sunderland's best result of the season. I still think Leeds are the best team
15:05we've seen. I think they're the team that have exerted the most control over Sunderland and would
15:09have seen the game out relatively comfortably if not for that goalkeeping error. For me,
15:13Leeds United are still my favourites for the title. I still think they're the best team,
15:17all-round team that I've seen this season. But huge credit to Sunderland because their consistency
15:22has been really impressive. Even when they haven't played well, they seem to find a way of
15:26buying large to grind out results, pick up points. You know, they're up there on merit now
15:31with 24 games in the season. So, I think a lot of praise is deserved for Sunderland.
15:38Stu says, I know the game where we didn't really trust the subs, even though some were dead on
15:42their feet. I know we've got players coming back and I know you've done articles about being
15:45patient for quality over quantity, but is there a case for a couple early in the window to bolster
15:50a threadbare squad? Well, listen, I think the ideal scenario would be to get the business
15:54done early. That's always the case. As you mentioned there, Stu spoke to Lebris about this
15:59before the game and he made very clear that Sunderland would wait. They only want two or
16:03three high-quality additions. And if it means waiting until the back end of the window to enjoy
16:07the sort of last segment of the season, that's what they'll do. Obviously, they'll look to get
16:11their business done early. At the moment, there doesn't appear to be anything absolutely imminent,
16:17but we'll wait and see on that. I think the one thing I would say, Stu, is if you look a little
16:20bit at the schedule, there's nobody who can really come in and impact the game on Sunday
16:24against Portsmouth. You've then got the FA Cup third round next Saturday, so that means it's
16:28another two weeks really after the Portsmouth game before Sunderland play in the league.
16:33In that time, I would expect quite a lot of players to come into contention. Dan Ballard,
16:38Chris Raig, possibly Alan Brown, possibly Romain Mundo, Salis Abdel Sameh should be
16:44sort of available by around that time. I'm not for a second saying Sunderland don't need to
16:48strengthen. I think they absolutely do. I think it's a crucially important window. But in terms
16:52of your point, I think actually, although at the moment it feels really difficult because the squad
16:56is too small for the schedule, I think things are going to ease slightly moving forward. So,
17:00I don't think there's a need to just get any player in. I think it has to be the right player
17:04and I do think that by the time, once Sunday's out of the way, the next time Sunderland play
17:08in the league, the sort of base of the squad will be a bit stronger. Glenn says,
17:13can we expect more experience in the January transfer window or Premier League kids on loan?
17:17Hopefully a nice mix of both. Yeah, I think that Lebris has always said, I don't think they're
17:22necessarily looking for experience per se, but what they are definitely looking for is someone
17:27who can hit the ground running. We know Sunderland will always potentially sign young players who can
17:31impact the team if they're available, a bit like when they signed Mundo last year. Maybe they'll
17:37do that. But I think first and foremost, they're looking for players who can compete for players
17:40right now. Lebris has said that Chris Meckham is kind of a bit of a template for that, if you like.
17:45To be honest, Glenn, I'm not sure about how experienced necessarily these players will be,
17:49although I'm sure that'll be part of it. But I think what we'll definitely see is when Sunderland
17:54do recruit, it'll be players who'll hopefully be match fit and who sort of have enough experience
18:00of the Championship or the Premier League or whatever it might be to hopefully compete for
18:04a place straight away. It does feel like Sunderland's setting a pretty high bar for
18:07their recruitment this month. That's obviously high risk because those players are going to
18:10be hard to sign and there's going to be a lot of competition for them. But hopefully,
18:15it's players who can immediately impact the team. Because as I mentioned,
18:18there are some players who you're a little bit nervous about in terms of we haven't seen them
18:22much this season. So you're a bit nervous about their recovery. But broadly speaking,
18:25the injury picture should look better in the next couple of weeks anyway. So I think it's about
18:29adding real high quality who can make the difference in tight games. I think that's got to
18:33be the sort of the goal for Sunderland in January. Boots RTG says the low block effective but doesn't
18:42help the atmosphere. It's a hard watch. Discuss. Generally speaking, we want to see Sunderland on
18:47the front foot. I agree with that completely. I think you have to put last night a little bit
18:51into the context in terms of the quality of the opposition. You look at some of the money that
18:55they've spent on some of the players on that side, the players that Sunderland were missing.
18:58The one thing I will say last night is I don't really mind a low block when Sunderland are as
19:02aggressive as they are when they win the ball back. I never really felt at any point that
19:05Sunderland weren't trying to score. I thought in their own way they were really, really positive
19:09when Neal and Joe won the ball back. They were trying to find the striker straight away.
19:14Meppin was playing a lot of quite risky but also quite positive balls over the top. It wasn't
19:18aimless. It was trying to find the runs of Isidore Mienda. So generally speaking, I totally agree
19:23with you. I think a big part of Sunderland's whole kind of strategy is to be aggressive and on the
19:27front foot at home to try and utilise the crowd. It's definitely not something they're always able
19:31to do. I don't mind last night because I thought it was a smart game plan in the circumstances,
19:37especially when you consider how much football Sunderland have played recently. It's really hard
19:41to be 100% intensity all the time in this kind of schedule. I thought it was the right set-up and I
19:47can always forgive a low block when it's done specifically to help the team score. I don't feel
19:53like Sunderland weren't trying to score last night. I thought they were quite aggressive when
19:56they won the ball back. A couple of comments over on YouTube as well just before I finish.
20:02Someboy Cold says, great win tonight. So pleased for Mienda. Do you think we'll strengthen the
20:09window even though players are coming back from injury? Yeah, hopefully I've kind of answered
20:13that a little bit. I don't see, because as you say, a lot of players coming back. I don't see
20:16tons and tons of business, but Sunderland are definitely looking to do two or three
20:22sign-ins this month. So hopefully they can do it. Tim Hewitt says, so pleased for Mienda to
20:27play well and score in such a big game. With Mienda, Isidore Conley, Roosen,
20:31Abdullahi and Ogunseyi, can you realistically see us signing another striker? I definitely
20:35think Sunderland would like to add an experienced striker if they can this month. I think they've
20:39recognised the importance of it. Conley obviously hasn't had a lot of minutes recently. Roosen,
20:43I think there has to be a good chance he goes this month because of his lack of game time.
20:48So although I agree with you there are a lot of players up front, I think it's definitely
20:51something Sunderland would like to do. And there you go again. I've spoken for 21 minutes,
20:57so I'm going to call it there. Thanks so much for all your questions
20:59and comments. Brilliant start of the year talking about Sunderland win.
21:03And I will be back after the Portsmouth game. I'm losing all track of days at this time here.
21:08I'll be back after the Portsmouth game on Sunday, so it'll probably be Monday morning,
21:11and your edition of On The Whistle will be up. We'll have our instant reaction from the press
21:15box on Sunday evening as well. So you'll be able to watch that over on the Echo website
21:18and on YouTube. Thanks for watching.