Phil and James take questions from fans after Sunderland's 2-1 defeat to Watford
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00:00Hello, welcome to On The Whistle, Sunderland have just lost 2-1 to Watford at Vicarage
00:14Road.
00:15Phil, bitterly disappointed in the result.
00:16I thought that Sunderland were pretty poor in the first half, although they did come
00:20into it.
00:21Second half, I thought they were much, much better, deserved something out of that game
00:24and a costly penalty given away by Dan Neil.
00:26Yeah, it was a really strange game.
00:28I thought that the first half was probably as poor as we've seen Sunderland all season.
00:32In fact, I think it definitely was.
00:33I mean, they barely had a kick, didn't they, in the first half, first half and hour of
00:38the game.
00:39It was just quite hard.
00:40Obviously, we know that they're quite happy to sit off and counter-attack, but they pretty
00:43much had 10 men in their own box for most of the game.
00:45It was really strange.
00:46It was interesting asking Lebris about it there and he made pretty clear it wasn't an
00:50issue with effort or mentality or anything.
00:52He said he felt that Watford's basically 3-5-2 formation had basically caught Sunderland
00:57out.
00:58Well, not caught Sunderland out, as in he felt that they struggled to deal with that.
01:00I mean, he said he made a little tweak for Neil to drop in almost as a third centre-half
01:04and you did see the game change.
01:05I thought Sunderland ended the first half really well.
01:08Second half, totally dominated the first 20 minutes of the half, but then it was really
01:12open and could have gone either way, I think.
01:13I think Watford did come back into it, I think, once they realised there were opportunities
01:16on the break that did look lively.
01:18For me, I think a point would have been a fair result, probably.
01:22I think Watford completely dominated early on and I don't think Sunderland totally dominated
01:25the second half.
01:26I'm not arguing the better team, but Watford always looked a threat.
01:29I thought when Watford scored, if anyone was going to score, it was going to be Sunderland,
01:32when Watford got that penalty.
01:33Yeah, no, I agree with that.
01:34I think Sunderland were shading it, but it wasn't one-way traffic, by any specific imagination.
01:37No, and there was a couple of those crucial blocks, there was one by Hulme, I think O'Nine
01:41might have got one as well.
01:42So, yeah.
01:43So, it was strange in the end, I felt it was a slightly harsh result and it was interesting
01:45speaking to Lebris there.
01:46I know he's quite a measured person anyway, so you're not going to get a strong reaction
01:50to a defeat, but he was quite upbeat, he was really pleased with the way that Sunderland
01:55had been in a bit of a hole early on and had dug their way out of it and that they'd
01:58found a solution.
02:00He was more upbeat than you would expect a manager to be after a defeat.
02:04Well, his message was on still building the culture.
02:07Basically, he said that Sunderland needed to do better, but he was actually pleased
02:12by how they were able to change tactically in the game.
02:15Yeah, really disappointing and you can't, away from home in the Championship, every
02:19team has really good players and you cannot afford to give them a head start like Sunderland
02:22did today.
02:23So, yeah, really disappointing, but I don't think it was it.
02:26It's similar to Plymouth, really frustrating, but it wasn't like a terrible performance.
02:29I think it's maybe highlighted that Sunderland can be vulnerable on the counter-attack actually
02:36because I thought Watford had so much pace, quality and power as well that they were just
02:39sort of driving through Sunderland at times.
02:41They've got good players, I mean, I'm not going to try and pronounce his name because
02:45I'm going to embarrass myself, but the number eight, the Georgian international is a real
02:48threat.
02:49You know, Mises Sissoko probably doesn't have the legs that he had once upon a time, but
02:52he's still a really good player.
02:54Barr was really lively in the substitute that came on.
02:56They have got good players, you know, we shouldn't be dismissive of that.
02:58And I think, to be fair, Sunderland were between a rock and a hard place, weren't they?
03:01Because when they were trying not to give counter-attacking opportunities up early on,
03:05they were just, you know, completely absent from the game in any kind of attacking way.
03:08So really disappointing, really frustrating, but I think, you know, there were some positives
03:13to take, which will come on to Isidore being a big one.
03:16He was excellent at prop, played like a prop number nine.
03:18There's been so much debate about, oh, he's not going to be a strike, he prefers to play
03:21off the left.
03:22I mean, true, but he looked like a number nine today.
03:23He held the ball up when he was quite isolated in the first half, made some Ross Stewart-esque
03:27runs into the channel for something a bit different, took his goal well.
03:30I thought he was really good.
03:31I'm quite excited by his performance today.
03:33I don't want to compare him sort of too closely to Ross Stewart because, obviously, he's his
03:37own player and he's quite new to the club, and I think it's unfair to put that level
03:40of pressure on him, but that's the first time since Ross Stewart left that we've seen somebody
03:44up there where I've thought, right, hang on, OK, he's got the right stature and he makes
03:49the sort of similar sort of runs in between that forward channel.
03:53I don't think he's one-dimensional either.
03:55No, he's not as dynamic as Stewart, he's not as quick and he's not as powerful a runner.
03:59I think he's going to be different.
04:00I think he's going to be more of a link-up player, but the intelligence and the understanding
04:03of the position.
04:04Yeah, and for the goals as well, to be in that position was...
04:07Yeah, and I thought he was willing to put his back into the defences as well and scrap
04:10a bit, which is a really, really... he's going to have to do that.
04:13I think as well, just to keep going, because I actually thought in the first half he didn't
04:16really touch the ball too many times, but to have the wherewithal in the second half,
04:21obviously so close after the halftime break as well, to have the presence of mind just
04:26to get across the front post, the willingness, I thought that was really pleasing.
04:29Another assist for Roberts as well.
04:31Yeah, should we get to some questions?
04:32Yes, we should, yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:34Ethan Todd's friend of the show says, do you think Samed will come almost straight into
04:39the start 11 when fully fit and allow Neil to play in one of the eight where he's seemingly
04:45more comfortable and productive?
04:47I feel like that's going to be a theme of these questions.
04:49Yeah, have we got any other Dan Neil questions?
04:51Should we take them all as one?
04:52Because I feel like it's going to be a big talking point.
04:54Another from Mike Smith which we'll come to afterwards.
04:56Josh Kebbs says, does Dan Neil need dropping?
05:00Seems to have struggled.
05:03And we could throw the Dan Neil captain debate in there as well, I guess.
05:08Yeah, I mean, I don't think the captain's things have any impact on his performance.
05:11You know, I just don't see that at all.
05:14I think that, you know, for me, like, obviously Dan Neil's made a mistake there at the end
05:17and given a penalty where, you know, when we asked the briefs about it, he did make
05:20the point that no player should be left one on one for that long and that Neil didn't
05:24have the support.
05:25Obviously, it's a mistake.
05:26He shouldn't dive in and try and make the challenge and that's costing them.
05:29But I think, like, realistically, Neil took on this role when Corey Evans got injured
05:34and I think he's done an unbelievable job since then.
05:36And I know there've been some almost like high profile moments where, you know, it looks
05:41like he's cost the team.
05:43But, you know, that Middlesbrough red card, for example, last year was unbelievably harsh.
05:46I think Dan Neil has 90% of the time been really good in that role.
05:50And I think that there shouldn't be any kind of overreaction to what is obviously a costly
05:55mistake.
05:55I think at the moment, I think that Sunderland, I think he's more exposed in that position
06:00defensively than he has been in the past because I think Sunderland are playing with two eights
06:03rather than like two sixes and a ten.
06:06I think that's very noticeable.
06:07And when other teams break, Neil is very often trying to defend against a couple of players
06:10on his own.
06:11Sometimes he's made some great challenges.
06:13Sometimes he's not come out on top today.
06:15I don't agree with the assessment that Neil's been poor this season.
06:18I just absolutely don't.
06:20Has he been one of Sunderland's absolute best players?
06:23Maybe not.
06:23But I think he's done a decent job.
06:25He got sent off against Burnley, but he had a good game up until then for me.
06:29He's missed out on one challenge, which, yeah, maybe he shouldn't make.
06:32But I just think there shouldn't be an overreaction to Neil.
06:35Yeah, I still think he can do that role.
06:40Will Sam Ed come and play that role at times?
06:42I think he definitely will because he's more naturally a defensive midfielder.
06:45I don't, you know, I think that is a valid sort of discussion point.
06:48And I definitely think there'll be times where we see Sam Ed play that because he probably
06:51has got that more of those defensive abilities.
06:54But I think Neil's done an excellent job over a long period of time in that position.
06:58And yeah, I think he's a brilliant player going to the top.
07:02Whether he'll do that as a six or an eight, I don't know.
07:04Maybe we'll see the best of him as an eight.
07:05But I just, the assessment that Neil hasn't had a great start of the season, I think is
07:10an overreaction.
07:10I don't think it's the time to crucify him, to be brutally honest.
07:13Yes, he's made a mistake.
07:15You know, as LaBreeze mentioned, he was left one on one, which, you know, isn't ideal.
07:19A comment from Mike Smith actually backs that up and says, it's a shame Dan Neil is getting
07:23so much stick.
07:24He's been asked to take on a role for the team till Sam Ed is fit.
07:29Then he'll get the chance to push upfield.
07:30Poor judgment for the pen, but doesn't make him a poor player overall.
07:35No, he's an excellent player who's been one of Sunderland's most consistent performers
07:39for a long period of time, especially in a position that he had no real knowledge of
07:44before he took it on after Corey Evans' injury.
07:46And I agree with the basic point that I think there are times when we'll see Sam Ed play
07:52that role and Neil can push further up.
07:54And I think that could be a really nice blend.
07:55And I still do think Neil will probably end up as a more attacking midfielder in time.
07:59I've said it a million times.
08:00To me, Dan Neil is the player who played and scored against Ackland and Sam Ed at the
08:04stadium.
08:05Obviously, he's developed massively since then.
08:07But that was Dan Neil at his core.
08:13He'll be a better player for this spell he's had as a whole.
08:16And we have said for a long time that Sunderland should sign a proper defensive midfielder
08:19because we feel like that would boost the squad.
08:21And I think we've always felt that some variety in that position would be good.
08:24And hopefully Sam Ed will be that player.
08:25I think Dan Neil's been asked to play that position because there's probably a consensus
08:29at the club, at the Academy of Light, whether you agree with this or not, I probably tend
08:32to, is that technically he's probably the best midfielder we've got and the best suited
08:36too.
08:37And he's the one player that's able to suit that role.
08:40And at the start of that second half, when Sunderland actually got up the pitch and started
08:43controlling the game and seeing more of the ball, Neil was really good.
08:46You know, he picks the right passes, he moves it quickly, he plays the players in the right
08:49positions.
08:50When Sunderland are up the pitch, dominating the game, playing as we want them to on the
08:54front foot, Neil is a very effective number six.
08:56Do I agree that there will be scenarios where he needs a different number six?
08:59I absolutely do.
09:00And he's never going to be a Claude McAlealy as a defensive midfielder.
09:03He's not.
09:03And I accept that, but we shouldn't overreact.
09:05He still has a lot to offer in that role.
09:07We shouldn't overreact.
09:08And this isn't me digging out Joe Bellingham and Chris Rigg because the two players I absolutely
09:13love.
09:13And when they play well, I will praise them to the hill.
09:15But Bellingham and that...
09:17So once again, me and Phil had a little bit of a nightmare with the video here at Watford.
09:22Our iPhone storage was full again.
09:25So bear with us with these videos.
09:26We're going to try and do them a little bit better.
09:28But the point I was making was just on Sunderland's midfield being a little bit out of sorts.
09:33Head over to the Sunderland Echo website for all the latest analysis ahead of Derby County.
09:37And we'll try and get these videos nailed a little bit better.
09:40Thanks for watching.
09:40Cheers.