Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim, Assalamu Alaikum.
00:24Today's program will be divided into two parts.
00:26The first part is to understand the significance of the discussion
00:31that has just begun.
00:34To understand its significance as a result of the discussion.
00:41When the discussion ended today,
00:43both sides expressed their opinions on these words.
00:47There has been a discussion in a more pleasant environment than before.
00:51Ali Ameen Ghandakur gave a very good suggestion.
00:53Everyone has decided for the betterment of Pakistan.
00:56That we will continue this.
00:58The PTI Committee has announced that
01:00to present the Charter of Demands in writing,
01:03a meeting with the Founder of PTI should be provided in Adayala Jail.
01:08After consultation and guidance,
01:10the Charter of Demands will be presented in writing in the next meeting.
01:14All these things were to be fixed.
01:16I feel that today is the right time.
01:18We will talk about this later.
01:20Mr. Shaukat Yusufzai is the Senior Director of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf.
01:23He has said in our program that
01:25nothing will be achieved by this discussion.
01:27Ultimately, we will have to move towards protest.
01:29Does he still think the same?
01:31He feels that there is no way forward.
01:33Mr. Daniyal Chaudhary has been strongly critical of the PTI.
01:36Does he still think so?
01:37He feels that the situation could be better.
01:39Let's talk about this in the first part of the program.
01:41In the second part of the program,
01:42a year has ended and a new year has begun.
01:44Today is January 2nd.
01:46In our previous programs,
01:48we discussed international and national politics in 2024.
01:53In 2025, we discussed political and international issues.
01:56But the most important topic is economy.
02:00If a person has two meals a day,
02:04then the rest will be discussed later.
02:06We have given three very relevant topics to our friends.
02:09So that we can discuss the situation in 2024 and 2025
02:13in simple words.
02:15Let's start with Mr. Shaukat Yusufzai and Mr. Daniyal Chaudhary.
02:23Mr. Daniyal Chaudhary is the Parliamentary Secretary
02:26for Information and Broadcasting, PMLN.
02:29Mr. Shaukat Yusufzai is the Senior Leader of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
02:33He is a very vocal leader.
02:35I am very thankful to both of them.
02:37Today's session is over.
02:40The Charter of Demand is over.
02:42Mr. Shaukat, a few days ago, you said in our program
02:45that you don't think this issue will be resolved through negotiations.
02:49Negotiations will be futile with them.
02:51And today I have realized that the government has no mandate.
02:56I think we will have to go back to protest.
02:59Because I don't think this government will agree to this.
03:03The problem with PMLN is that when you step on their toes,
03:07then they are ready to accept everything.
03:09As soon as you step away from their toes,
03:11they become a lion again.
03:13You said that when you step on their toes,
03:16then they are ready to accept everything.
03:18But when you step away from their toes,
03:20then they are ready to reject everything.
03:22Do you still think that there is a way out?
03:25Or do you think that this is not going to happen,
03:27that we will have to go back to the streets
03:29and make them listen to us?
03:33Thank you very much.
03:35I hope I am wrong.
03:37But this is what happens in political struggle.
03:40There are negotiations.
03:42Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't.
03:45But the negotiations should be open-minded.
03:48And I think both the teams are very serious this time.
03:51And I feel that the statements coming from a few ministers
03:57are not serious and not responsible.
04:00But this continues in politics.
04:02But the negotiation team is very hopeful
04:06to some extent.
04:08I can't say much.
04:10I am not very hopeful.
04:12But to some extent,
04:14some days will pass.
04:16And they will pass safely.
04:18I can say this.
04:20First, I have an innocent question for you
04:22and one for Mr. Dhaniya Chaudhary.
04:24I have a question for you,
04:26which Mr. Khwaja Asif is asking.
04:28And I have a question for Mr. Dhaniyal,
04:30which some other people are asking.
04:32I have a question for you.
04:34Those people who used to tell us
04:36that we don't want to talk to them.
04:38We will only talk to the establishment.
04:40Why are we talking to them?
04:42What do they have in their hands?
04:44They are puppets.
04:46They are stupid people.
04:48Today they agreed to sit with us.
04:50So you tell me first.
04:52Then I will ask Mr. Dhaniyal.
04:54These people, Mr. Dhaniyal,
04:56who used to say that now this Jamaat
04:58has tried everything.
05:00They have tried every way to spread.
05:02They have tried every way to spread.
05:04They have tried every way to spread.
05:06They have tried every way to spread.
05:08They have tried every way to spread.
05:10They have tried every way to spread.
05:12They have tried every way to spread.
05:14They have tried every way to spread.
05:16They have tried every way to spread.
05:18They have tried every way to spread.
05:20They have tried every way to spread.
05:22They have tried every way to spread.
05:24They have tried every way to spread.
05:26They have tried every way to spread.
05:28They have tried every way to spread.
05:30They have tried every way to spread.
05:32They have tried every way to spread.
05:34They have tried every way to spread.
05:36They have tried every way to spread.
05:38They have tried every way to spread.
05:40They have tried every way to spread.
05:42They have tried every way to spread.
05:44They have tried every way to spread.
05:46They have tried every way to spread.
05:48They have tried every way to spread.
05:50They have tried every way to spread.
05:52They have tried every way to spread.
05:54They have tried every way to spread.
05:56They have tried every way to spread.
05:58They have tried every way to spread.
06:00They have tried every way to spread.
06:02They have tried every way to spread.
06:04They have tried every way to spread.
06:06They have tried every way to spread.
06:08They have tried every way to spread.
06:10They have tried every way to spread.
06:12They have tried every way to spread.
06:14They have tried every way to spread.
06:16They have tried every way to spread.
06:18They have tried every way to spread.
06:20They have tried every way to spread.
06:22They have tried every way to spread.
06:24They have tried every way to spread.
06:26They have tried every way to spread.
06:28They have tried every way to spread.
06:30They have tried every way to spread.
06:32They have tried every way to spread.
06:34They have tried every way to spread.
06:36They have tried every way to spread.
06:38They have tried every way to spread.
06:40They have tried every way to spread.
06:42They have tried every way to spread.
06:44They have tried every way to spread.
06:46They have tried every way to spread.
06:48They have tried every way to spread.
06:50They have tried every way to spread.
06:52They have tried every way to spread.
06:54They have tried every way to spread.
06:56They have tried every way to spread.
06:58They have tried every way to spread.
07:00They have tried every way to spread.
07:02They have tried every way to spread.
07:04They have tried every way to spread.
07:06They have tried every way to spread.
07:08They have tried every way to spread.
07:10They have tried every way to spread.
07:12They have tried every way to spread.
07:14They have tried every way to spread.
07:16They have tried every way to spread.
07:18They have tried every way to spread.
07:20They have tried every way to spread.
07:22They have tried every way to spread.
07:24They have tried every way to spread.
07:26They have tried every way to spread.
07:28They have tried every way to spread.
07:30They have tried every way to spread.
07:32They have tried every way to spread.
07:34They have tried every way to spread.
07:36They have tried every way to spread.
07:38They have tried every way to spread.
07:40They have tried every way to spread.
07:42They have tried every way to spread.
07:44They have tried every way to spread.
07:46They have tried every way to spread.
07:48They have tried every way to spread.
07:50They have tried every way to spread.
07:52They have tried every way to spread.
07:54They have tried every way to spread.
07:56They have tried every way to spread.
07:58They have tried every way to spread.
08:00They have tried every way to spread.
08:02They have tried every way to spread.
08:04They have tried every way to spread.
08:06They have tried every way to spread.
08:08They have tried every way to spread.
08:10They have tried every way to spread.
08:12They have tried every way to spread.
08:14They have tried every way to spread.
08:16They have tried every way to spread.
08:19They have tried every way to spread.
08:22Their demands are high!
08:24They have tried every
08:26They have tried every way to spread.
08:28Their demands are high!
08:30regardless of all these things
08:32we have made plots
08:34to allow luck
08:36out of them
08:38We have
08:45We will try to settle things down with them and take Pakistan forward for the wider benefit of the country.
08:52Shaukat Bhai, you are hopeful that you will prove Mr. Daniyal's statement wrong.
08:58Because there is an impression about the media that aggression, statement, put him in jail, put him in jail.
09:06Now, you have suffered a lot, but historically.
09:09So, will there be such an environment as a result of these negotiations that after that,
09:14as a result of the collective tension, he will play his role and you will play your role?
09:17Because they say that they are sure that they will not succeed.
09:20Because you have again adopted the same trick.
09:22The system that seemed to us that they do not negotiate, today we are negotiating.
09:26Now they say, why were we not negotiating?
09:28We were saying that they do not have the power.
09:31Today, Mr. Daniyal himself is saying that, yes, negotiations are taking place, but the result will not be good.
09:36I am not saying that they do not have the power.
09:38That will be proven.
09:39Because, see, we are negotiating.
09:42If we were not doing it, then we told the reason.
09:44Today, if we are doing it, then we are proving that we are going to negotiate.
09:48We are political people, but from now on, there is no such thing.
09:52Mr. Daniyal, tell us that the people sitting in the negotiating committee,
09:58they have no power.
09:59They just have to ask Mr. Nawaz Sharif and Mr. Shahbaz Sharif.
10:02Or they have to ask Nawaz Sharif and Mr. Shahbaz Sharif.
10:06Then they have to tell them.
10:07Then they have to tell you.
10:08Then you have to tell them.
10:10See, there is absolute power, so they are sitting.
10:13And the party has given them power.
10:16But those who do not have the power,
10:20they are the people who put a comma, full stop, everything in the 26th amendment.
10:27And in the end, they were told that, brother, do not do it.
10:30So, Mr. Daniyal, if we conclude this,
10:34you personally do not expect that this will be a conclusive,
10:38that the result will be clear, that a new era will begin.
10:41You think, considering the nature of PTI,
10:44you do not have any reason to believe that it will succeed.
10:46See, you have been taught one thing in law.
10:49In law, you are taught one thing.
10:51That is, once a criminal and twice a criminal,
10:55then there is a propensity that he will commit a crime again.
11:00There is a propensity that he will commit a crime again.
11:02Or he will do it again.
11:03That unlike him, there is a person with a clear character.
11:06There are more chances that the one who has committed twice before,
11:09will commit a crime for the third time.
11:11These are the people who lie again and again.
11:14But then I want that what I am saying is wrong.
11:17I hope that what I am saying is not true.
11:20So, this is actually so interesting.
11:22To begin with.
11:23I understood, brother.
11:24Let's conclude the debate.
11:25First, Mr. Yusufzai, you tell me, but Mr. Daniyal, you.
11:27Mr. Yusufzai, is there any such suggestion,
11:29not today, but tomorrow,
11:31four weeks later, four months later,
11:33twenty months later.
11:34Is it not possible,
11:35as Mr. Rana Sanaullah said,
11:37that these three people,
11:39one of whom is Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif,
11:41one is Asif Ali Tardari,
11:42one is Imran Khan.
11:43These three are sitting.
11:45And as much as Mr. Rana has said,
11:47the next question is mine.
11:48At least agree on some things.
11:50For example,
11:51yes, we will obviously have political opposition.
11:53We will not go against each other.
11:55But the political revenge,
11:57we will not move towards political revenge.
11:59Is it possible for political democratic action
12:01to move forward in Pakistan?
12:03Or is it a madman's dream?
12:04It cannot be.
12:05The difference has increased so much.
12:06Brother Shaukat.
12:07No, the first thing is that
12:09the serious people on both sides
12:11will have to move forward.
12:12Right.
12:13And this,
12:15the taunt, the allegation,
12:17will have to end.
12:18We will have to accept each other.
12:20Look,
12:21Tariq-e-Insaf,
12:22no one can say that this is a crooked party.
12:24Tariq-e-Insaf has proven everyone in February
12:26that despite taking everything away,
12:28everyone knows how many votes Imran Khan has.
12:30If there is a transparent election today,
12:32I think everyone's bailout will be seized.
12:34Despite all this,
12:35how much injustice has happened.
12:37The second thing is that
12:38everything will depend on it.
12:40The trust deficient,
12:42if this committee ends it,
12:44then a lot can happen in the future.
12:46If these committees do the same thing,
12:48that the trust building,
12:51if it is over,
12:53then a lot can happen.
12:55Because Pakistan is really in trouble.
12:57We used to say this before,
12:59but now I am telling you in reality,
13:01that the financial difficulties,
13:03the situation in Oman,
13:05it has become very dangerous.
13:07We will have to agree on this.
13:09Is it also possible that,
13:11the way you people
13:13consider the institutions responsible,
13:15that there has been a lot of corruption against you.
13:17You have said it on the record.
13:18In fact, you are taking the name of Saran
13:19and saying that he attacked me.
13:20He did this, he did that.
13:21Even then, Bushra Bibi has said,
13:23on the basis of Mr. Khan,
13:24that I want to pay attention to the institutions.
13:26I don't want to take any revenge from anyone.
13:28Can you do the same thing for the political opponents?
13:31Or will you say,
13:32no, we will not leave them.
13:33This will be equal.
13:35No, no, no.
13:36Look, Imran Khan said that day,
13:38when our team went,
13:40he said,
13:41I will not take revenge from anyone.
13:44This will not happen from my side at all.
13:47He gives examples of a lot of people,
13:49what kind of injustice was done to them.
13:51The people outside,
13:53Nelson Mandela,
13:54and many others.
13:55And he has read a lot of books.
13:56He said,
13:57taking revenge is not the work of a brave politician.
14:00Forgiving is the greatest bravery.
14:02So, God willing,
14:03that is not the case.
14:04He has said that,
14:05whoever he is,
14:06whether he is a politician or whatever,
14:08but at least I will not take revenge.
14:11That's why he is a leader.
14:12And may God teach you a lesson from the past.
14:14This final word is from you,
14:15Mr. Daniyal.
14:16Obviously, a lot has happened in this era.
14:18So, two things,
14:19please conclude on this.
14:20One, the same question,
14:21that is it possible that
14:22these three big leaders are sitting,
14:23and just like Bibi and Nawaz Sharif are sitting,
14:25after that,
14:26everything did not go well.
14:27Still, there was a whole period of investigation.
14:29But at least one,
14:30one stage has passed.
14:32So, is it possible that
14:33three people are sitting
14:34and some countries move forward,
14:35number one.
14:36Number two,
14:37whatever has happened in this era,
14:38that see,
14:39three to three hundred people,
14:40or even if someone has done it in September,
14:42but the press conference was done,
14:43so September was forgiven.
14:44That is,
14:45are you also ready to claim all this?
14:46That yes,
14:47it is okay,
14:48it is okay here,
14:49it has been exaggerated up to here,
14:50it should not have happened,
14:51it will not happen in the future.
14:52Is there any possibility
14:53that the country can move forward?
14:54Or will we be stuck in this cycle,
14:55even in the year 2025,
14:56and even in 26,
14:57and I don't know,
14:58even in 27.
15:01Look,
15:02Mr. Badami,
15:03we tried,
15:04and this is the attempt from day one.
15:06And even today,
15:07it is that
15:08we remove things
15:09and move towards improvement.
15:10Look,
15:11you tell me,
15:12that your own children
15:13are sitting outside,
15:14Mr. Badami,
15:15and you tell people's children
15:16that your own children
15:17are eating McDonald's
15:18in the UK,
15:19and you tell people's children
15:20to take pills.
15:21Okay?
15:22Which leader does this?
15:23What do you have to say, Shogat?
15:24What do you have to say?
15:25I am saying that
15:26as Daryal Bhai said,
15:28that our children are outside,
15:30so to take pills here,
15:32so I want to ask
15:34why pills were given in politics?
15:36Will people in politics
15:37take pills
15:38when they protest?
15:39If we had to protest,
15:41the day Imran Khan was shot,
15:43couldn't we protest that day?
15:45How many people were with him?
15:47Couldn't all of them protest?
15:49No one did.
15:50Tell us one thing,
15:51that they came and
15:52occupied the Fana building,
15:53the government,
15:54and we did this
15:55to get rid of them.
15:56We all went for
15:57peaceful protest.
15:58No, you are right.
15:59Sometimes you say
16:00that we didn't shoot,
16:01sometimes you say
16:02that why did you
16:03leave the children
16:04to take pills.
16:05But Danyal Bhai,
16:06tell us,
16:07this is the first program
16:08of 2025,
16:09in which both of you are present.
16:10Sir, no one shot.
16:11Neither our people,
16:12our people were unarmed
16:13throughout the operation.
16:14You just said
16:15that your own children
16:16are outside
16:17and you left
16:18other people's children
16:19to take pills.
16:20Yes, because
16:21what else did they
16:22use them for?
16:23When you came,
16:24they wanted us
16:25to bring dead bodies.
16:26They came to take
16:27the dead bodies.
16:28This was the strategy
16:29of the government
16:30and the law enforcing
16:31agencies,
16:32who said
16:33that those who
16:34are being misled
16:35and brought here,
16:36they are also our children.
16:37We don't want to do
16:38this work
16:39and we won't let them do it.
16:40But you tell me,
16:41the people
16:42you brought
16:43here,
16:44the people
16:45whose children
16:46were shot,
16:47the people
16:48whose children
16:49were shot,
16:50the people
16:51whose children
16:52were shot,
16:53the people
16:54whose children
16:55were shot,
16:56the people
16:57whose children
16:58were shot,
16:59the people
17:00whose children
17:01were shot,
17:02the people
17:03whose children
17:04were shot,
17:05the people
17:06whose children
17:07were shot,
17:08the people
17:09whose children
17:10were shot,
17:11the people
17:12whose children
17:13were shot,
17:14the people
17:15whose children
17:16were shot,
17:17the people
17:18whose children
17:19were shot,
17:20the people
17:21whose children
17:22were shot,
17:23the people
17:24whose children
17:25were shot,
17:26the people
17:27whose children
17:28were shot,
17:29the people
17:30whose children
17:31were shot,
17:32the people
17:33whose children
17:34were shot,
17:35the people
17:36whose children
17:37were shot,
17:38the people
17:39whose children
17:40were shot,
17:41the people
17:42whose children
17:43were shot,
17:44the people
17:45whose children
17:46were shot,
17:47the people
17:48whose children
17:49were shot,
17:50the people
17:51whose children
17:52were shot,
17:53the people
17:54whose children
17:55were shot,
17:56the people
17:57whose children
17:58were shot,
17:59the people
18:00whose children
18:01were shot,
18:02the people
18:03whose children
18:04were shot,
18:05the people
18:06whose children
18:07were shot,
18:08the people
18:09whose children
18:11were shot,
18:15the people
18:20whose children
18:22were shot,
18:24the people
18:26whose children
18:32were shot,
18:36the people
18:37How will it be?
18:38Three relevant guests, the Minister of State for Finance and Remedies, who has dealt with
18:42the IMF, are the most important members of this government's economic team.
18:45Mr. Ali Parvez Malik will be with us.
18:47The most important member of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa's government's economic team,
18:51Mr. Muzammil Aslam will be with us, who is also the advisor of CMKPK.
18:55The most important members of Pakistan's economic team are Mr. Mifta Ismail.
18:59All three of them will be with us after a break.
19:01We will be back after a short break.
19:31Mr. Malik, thank you very much for your time.
19:33The advisor of CMKPK, Mr. Muzammil Aslam, thank you very much for your time.
19:43And of course, the former finance minister of Pakistan.
19:46Needs no introduction.
19:47He has organized Pakistan's budget.
19:50He has been a part of the government's economic team for years.
19:53He has been designing economic policies.
19:55Mr. Mifta Ismail.
19:56I am very thankful to all three of them.
19:59Mr. Muzammil, if I can start with you.
20:02Let's go one by one.
20:04At the beginning of this year, we used to hear a lot that IMF is not coming.
20:10Or even if it comes, it will be very difficult.
20:12There was a lot of criticism against you and your party.
20:14That you tried a lot, but IMF didn't come.
20:17You wrote a letter.
20:18And one more thing, we used to hear a lot.
20:20This default happened today and tomorrow.
20:22It happened next week and two weeks later.
20:2315 days of money is left and 20 days of money is left.
20:25Anyway, let's talk about this one thing one by one.
20:30Don't you think this is a success?
20:32Anyway, these two things happened.
20:34IMF came.
20:35We got a program of 7 billion dollars.
20:37Although we got it after going through many stages, but we got it.
20:40And today we don't hear anything about default.
20:42There was no default.
20:43Do you think this is an achievement of the government or not?
20:45Mr. Muzammil.
20:46When this year started, there was a 9-month program of IMF.
20:50And it was a caretaker.
20:51And then there was an election in February.
20:53That 9-month program.
20:54You will remember that the entire team of IMF went to Mr. Zaman Pak Khan.
21:00Yes, I remember.
21:01There was a lot of noise on it.
21:03So this was the program that PTI endorsed in it.
21:06Yes.
21:07Then this was the second program in July.
21:09This was the fiscal program of IMF.
21:11And in this, until all four provinces had to contribute, this program could not move forward.
21:17In which KP first took a step.
21:20And PTI, you can call it in one way.
21:23And took a step and signed the fiscal pact and also did MOU.
21:27Because of which this IMF program took place.
21:30So you can't minus us in this.
21:33And both these IMF programs.
21:35So what was the criticism on Mr. Taimur Jagda and Mr. Shaukat Tareen?
21:38What were they communicating about IMF?
21:41No, no.
21:42No, no.
21:43You have Mr. Mifta Ismail with you.
21:46That letter was also written by poor Taimur.
21:48I have said it ten times.
21:49It was written to Mr. Mifta.
21:50And today I will request Mr. Mifta that he will tell that letter was written to him.
21:55Not that it was written to IMF.
21:57All this should be asked.
21:58The audio that Mr. Shaukat and Mr. Taimur Jagda were talking on the phone.
22:03That phone got leaked.
22:04But that letter had never been written to IMF.
22:08It was written to Mr. Mifta.
22:10And a narrative was made on it.
22:11A lot of noise was made.
22:12Do you know who did this to Pakistani politics?
22:14We will ask Mr. Mifta.
22:15Okay.
22:16So okay.
22:17Now let's assume that you were also a part of it.
22:18We will ask Mr. Mifta what it was and what it wasn't.
22:20But was this an achievement or was it not a default even with everyone's cooperation?
22:25Was this an achievement?
22:28Look, I don't understand which default we are talking about.
22:32Either you are not asking for a roll over from Saudi Arabia, China, UAE.
22:38So even today, Prime Minister Ali Bhai was with me there.
22:42The program that has been given for 10 years.
22:45In that, Prime Minister was talking about Kashkol.
22:49And he was saying that the previous government asked for 1 billion dollars.
22:54So the other country gave half a billion dollars.
22:57So they refused.
22:58Look, they are giving you half a billion dollars.
23:00And you are in the hands of Kashkol.
23:02So you shouldn't have refused.
23:03So that is still the same.
23:05Your payment is still the same.
23:07So are you telling me that for all practical purposes, we are still in the state of default?
23:12This is what you are telling me?
23:13Tell me that if you are talking about the euro bond and its rights.
23:21That we have paid that and we are not in default.
23:24So let's assume that for a minute.
23:26But you are still in limbo.
23:28You are taking roll overs of 18-18, 15-15 billion dollars.
23:32You are doing everything.
23:33Your financial gap, which the IMF has told you to go and complete.
23:40You are not able to complete it yet.
23:42And in the March review, it will be found that you are still in a state of crisis.
23:48Let me ask Mr. Ali on this specific point.
23:51He says that if you are still following these arrangements.
23:54So did you avoid default?
23:58Mr. Ali.
23:59I would like to request that for a second.
24:02I think if we separate ourselves from this personal limbo and political limbo.
24:07So if we just look at this thing.
24:11So definitely from 2023 to 2024.
24:15It is better in every way economically.
24:18Now this is a matter of default.
24:19Look, I will end this on a small fact.
24:23Because I don't want us to move forward with any limbo in the new year.
24:27The request is that Pakistan had a few weeks of savings left.
24:33When we were present in the last year.
24:35And today when we are doing this program for you.
24:38The savings have reached about 2.5 to 3 months.
24:42Now you can argue about it.
24:44What did they ask for?
24:45Or where did they come from?
24:46What is not there?
24:47But today the fact is that you have a lot of buffers.
24:53If there is any turbulence in this world.
24:56Then you can meet them.
24:58Mr. Mifta, two innocent questions come to you.
25:00One is that in your opinion, getting this IMF program.
25:03Avoiding default.
25:05Was it really a success?
25:06Or what was the success?
25:07And the second.
25:08Mr. Muzammil spoke to you on air.
25:11And also made a request for clarification.
25:13Was it really you who addressed that letter?
25:17Not the IMF which had become a lot of controversy.
25:19Big things were going on at that time.
25:22As far as I remember.
25:25I don't remember that my name was written on it.
25:28Or it was written by the IMF.
25:30But I do understand this.
25:33That it was given to the IMF.
25:36Even if it was written on my name.
25:37And the IMF sent a copy of it.
25:38Then it is the same thing.
25:39And it was done exactly because.
25:41That the program of the IMF was delayed.
25:43And you also saw that the ministers of Punjab.
25:45They were not cooperating.
25:47But Mr. Taimur Jagda came forward.
25:49Then he came to me.
25:50He said that he didn't do it.
25:51But later all the recordings came out.
25:53So he tried very hard.
25:55That we will not do this.
25:57So there is no doubt about this.
25:59The second thing you said.
26:01That is the default.
26:03Now I agree with Mr. Ali Parvez.
26:08That the year 2024 was better than 2023.
26:11Okay.
26:12Mr. Ali Parvez will not be able to tell you this.
26:15But I will tell you.
26:17That the year 2023, which was very bad.
26:19There is a very big reason for this.
26:21It was the mistake of the Muslim League itself.
26:23It was the mistake of the government at that time.
26:25When you started fighting with the IMF in 2022.
26:27When you kept the currency locked.
26:29After that you saw the inflation of 35% for 4 months.
26:33This was the mistake of the Muslim League.
26:35The big thing that Shahbaz Sharif did.
26:37He went to Paris alone in June.
26:39And went to Paris and made an agreement with the IMF.
26:41And increased it by 1% and made it 22%.
26:43So the year of 2023 that was ruined.
26:45That was ruined by the Muslim League itself.
26:47After that, the public gave its answer on February 8, 2024.
26:51They refrained from talking to the public on February 9.
26:54And after that, they did another program.
26:57On which there is a lot of burden on the public.
26:59It is true that this year is better.
27:01The prices of crude oil have decreased all over the world.
27:04The prices of wheat, rice, cotton, LNG, and urea have decreased all over the world.
27:10Because of which the number of people in Pakistan has decreased.
27:13Inflation has decreased.
27:15Inflation has not decreased.
27:17The rate at which inflation was increasing has decreased.
27:19Pakistan has one of the highest tax rates in the world.
27:23And we have nothing to show for it.
27:25All the promises they made to the IMF were not fulfilled.
27:28So a lot of good things have happened.
27:30Alhamdulillah, by the grace of Allah.
27:32But this government has nothing to do with it.
27:34It has only amended the 26th amendment.
27:36Obviously, you are not from a political background.
27:39But three people who have an economic background.
27:41Does it happen that America has so much influence in the IMF
27:46that for any reason it tells the IMF that it does not want to support a particular country.
27:51So it makes any excuse that there is fiscal discipline,
27:54the tax target did not meet,
27:56can it really stop the support of that country?
27:58Does this happen, Mr. Miftad?
28:00Because you are all those people who have made a deal with the IMF.
28:02Mr. Miftad, you have made a lot of deals.
28:06Let's take this in two parts.
28:08One is that, yes, I understand that if America wants,
28:11it may not be able to get the money to any country,
28:14but it can stop the money of any country.
28:16The program can be stopped.
28:1830-35% is the share.
28:20And where America votes, the European Union votes with them.
28:22So if America wants and tells the IMF,
28:24then the program can be stopped.
28:26I believe in this.
28:30And I also believe that maybe the Trump administration,
28:33because a lot of Pakistanis had given money to Trump,
28:36that the Trump administration,
28:38and the tweets that are coming,
28:40they think that if Imran Khan gets some relief,
28:42then it is better.
28:44That's why I think this is also happening to me.
28:46That's why you have seen that negotiations have started.
28:48But I don't think that America,
28:50will give all its benefits to Imran Khan's release.
28:58Pakistan and America have a strategic relationship,
29:02and such a big country as Pakistan,
29:04which is a nuclear power,
29:06is such a populated country.
29:08Bankrupting it is neither in America's interest,
29:10nor in the interest of any region's friend or enemy.
29:12So I don't think that America will go to that extent,
29:15that it will stop the IMF.
29:17But other things being equal,
29:19America at the margin will prefer that Imran Khan is released.
29:23If it goes to that extent, then the IMF will have to be stopped.
29:26Let me complete this sentence.
29:29Our journey from slavery to true freedom,
29:33has come to a halt somewhere.
29:35That's good.
29:37We wanted the USA,
29:39and now we have to get the USA.
29:41Muzamin Bhai, please comment on this.
29:44Because this is very relevant.
29:46Do you see any possibility,
29:50where America uses this as a tactic,
29:53that the IMF should be stopped?
29:56If I recall the history,
29:58there were two instances,
30:00where America took Pakistan head-on.
30:03One was in 1998-99,
30:05when they did nuclear.
30:07We got the IMF program at that time,
30:09and we got it after that.
30:11And in 2009-11, Musharraf also took it.
30:13And nothing like that happened.
30:15And then there was an occasion of Osama Bin Laden.
30:17I was in practical life,
30:21I made some notes and shared them.
30:25At that time, there was a fear,
30:27that Osama Bin Laden,
30:29and in America,
30:31you will remember Obama's election,
30:33you will have a very strict stance.
30:35Immediately after that,
30:37you got Friends of Pakistan,
30:39you got Pakistan's biggest program,
30:41so all these things.
30:43I am sure they have influence,
30:45they have voting rights,
30:47but Pakistan has its own strategic value,
30:49and Pakistan attracts it.
30:51So, it can be a tough time.
30:53What can be more tough than this?
30:55Since 2009-10,
30:57America has not given the money
30:59of the Coalition Support Fund.
31:01If you look at America,
31:03if you look at the aid,
31:05if you look at it from 2013,
31:07if you look at it from the time of Mr. Mifta,
31:09it was almost impossible.
31:11So, Pakistan was almost at its feet.
31:13The commodity super cycle,
31:15one was the election in 2018,
31:17and the other was the commodity super cycle.
31:19If you minus these two years,
31:21then Pakistan,
31:23for 8-7 years,
31:25was more or less at its feet.
31:27And you don't think that
31:29America will go so far
31:31that it will stop coming to aid.
31:33It is less likely to happen.
31:35Look, the first thing is that
31:37if such a thing happens,
31:39and it comes under our autonomy,
31:41then first of all,
31:43our party will say that
31:45we cannot do this.
31:47So, if America does this,
31:49will you condemn it?
31:51That this is a matter of Pakistan,
31:53not of Imran Khan Nawaz Sharif.
31:55Look, I cannot give a strategic statement
31:57on Pakistan,
31:59but Mr. Khan will give a statement on it.
32:01You can give your opinion
32:03that if America stops aid,
32:05will it be worthy of condemnation?
32:07Of course, Mr. Khan,
32:09you will see,
32:11others may not be able to speak,
32:13I will tell you this today,
32:15you can write it to me.
32:17It has been recorded.
32:19If America stops aid to IMF,
32:21then Mr. Khan himself will stand up
32:23and condemn it.
32:25Ali Parvez,
32:27you must have heard this.
32:29Let's make a quick comment on this,
32:31then I will ask you the next question.
32:33Mr. Shahbaz Sharif has said
32:35that this will be the last program of IMF.
32:37I remember Mr. Asad Umar
32:39saying that we have to go to IMF,
32:41it is our choice,
32:43but it will be our success
32:45that this will be the last program.
32:47Do you believe that this will be the last program?
32:49Mr. Badami,
32:51I would like to say that
32:53this is Pakistan's 24th or 25th program.
32:55My brother, Mr. Mifta Ismail,
32:57might have exaggerated
32:59when he blamed
33:01Pakistan Muslim League
33:03for all the corruption.
33:05I humbly request you
33:07to make these two brothers
33:09witness that
33:11there are some economic facts of Pakistan
33:13and these two gentlemen
33:15know it better than me.
33:17When you know that Pakistan's
33:19external financing requirement
33:21is close to 100 billion dollars
33:23and when a vote of no confidence
33:25movement comes against you
33:27and you give such an
33:29unfunded fuel subsidy
33:31which is estimated
33:33to be more than
33:35the cost of running
33:37the country,
33:39do you think that
33:41the relationship with IMF
33:43which you knew was necessary
33:45to save this country from default,
33:47did you poison it
33:49so that Pakistan Muslim League
33:51ruined the government
33:53that came later?
33:55Mr. Mifta was a part of the government
33:57at that time,
33:59I didn't understand how
34:01he put the whole disease
34:03on the shoulders of Pakistan Muslim League
34:05I want to say to Mr. Dar
34:07that he voted for you
34:09so that you don't get into trouble.
34:11I am saying that
34:13all these communities
34:15who have ruled this country
34:17for 70 years,
34:19including me,
34:21including Mr. Mifta,
34:23including Mr. Muzambil,
34:25that today we are running
34:27for one billion dollars.
34:29And where you are talking about
34:31the IMF,
34:33the IMF is a non-political institution
34:35whose mandate is
34:37that it removes governments
34:39and states from the crisis
34:41of temporary balance of payments.
34:43It doesn't do their default engineering.
34:45So I have confidence in this.
34:47As long as
34:49we make good progress,
34:51the agenda of reforms
34:53that we have set,
34:55every government,
34:57every friend of Pakistan
34:59will support this initiative.
35:01Mr. Mifta, you tell me,
35:03do you acknowledge that
35:05even though there were no good reforms,
35:07some steps were taken
35:09that were not taken before.
35:11You can answer this question.
35:13My question to you is that
35:15like you said,
35:17when we say that the inflation
35:19has decreased by 5%,
35:21it doesn't mean that the 100 rupee thing
35:23has become 80 rupee.
35:25Last year, the 100 rupee thing
35:27was 10 rupees more expensive,
35:29but still,
35:31touching the peak of 38%
35:33and coming down to 5%,
35:35doesn't it mean that the government
35:37doesn't have to give credit for it?
35:39If you want to give credit,
35:41then give it.
35:43If you want to give it,
35:45then I will give it,
35:47otherwise I won't give it.
35:49When I said that
35:51last year the inflation
35:53was due to the mistakes
35:55of Muslim League Noon,
35:57if Muslim League Noon
35:59doesn't want to take the blame
36:01that it's due to the mistakes
36:03of Mr. Ishaq Dar,
36:05then why should I give credit
36:07to them for 5%?
36:09And the truth is that
36:11the oil prices have decreased
36:13all over the world,
36:15that's why the inflation
36:17has decreased.
36:19In Pakistan,
36:21the inflation has decreased
36:23all over the world,
36:25because Pakistan's governance
36:27system has failed.
36:29And secondly,
36:31there is no need to sit together
36:33and talk to each other.
36:35We don't have to sit together
36:37because of the pressure of the US.
36:39We have to sit together
36:41because our governance
36:43has failed the Pakistanis.
36:45Mr. Muzammil,
36:47can you tell us
36:49about the stock exchange
36:51in 2024?
36:53You are laughing.
36:55I am not talking
36:57about China's stock exchange.
36:59If you say
37:01that the stock exchange has not
37:03increased successfully,
37:05then you should not say
37:07that the government's stock
37:09has failed.
37:11I will not say such a thing.
37:13I have just started
37:15working on the stock exchange.
37:17The market has increased
37:19by 85% in 2024.
37:2185%
37:23After
37:252002-2003,
37:27it has increased the most
37:29in Pakistan's history in one year.
37:31You should be happy.
37:33Your love should be shaken
37:35by what Mr. Muzammil is saying.
37:37What is the truth behind this?
37:39The truth is that
37:41the market has increased
37:43by 52,000 points.
37:45And in this,
37:475 shares,
37:49No. 2, Mari Petroleum,
37:51No. 3, UBL,
37:53No. 4, OGDC,
37:55No. 5, Angro Fertilizer.
37:57These 5 stocks have increased
37:59by 20,000 points because of them.
38:01These 5 stocks.
38:03The share in the stock market is more than 500.
38:05After this,
38:07listen to me about the sector.
38:0912,000 points have increased
38:11because of the banks,
38:1313,000 points,
38:1511,000 points have increased
38:17because of fertilizers,
38:19and 10,000 points have increased because of oil and gas.
38:2135,000 points have increased
38:23because of these 3 sectors.
38:25And there are 17-18 sectors in the market.
38:27What is the connection between the banks
38:29and the common people who got the highest
38:31all-time share of interest,
38:33their profits increased,
38:35their shares increased.
38:37Fertilizer, agriculture,
38:390.92% growth,
38:4140% decline in production,
38:43and 12%
38:45growth in the main crop.
38:47Fertilizers increased their
38:49prices and their profits increased.
38:51The 2 companies that I mentioned in the
38:53top 5 were of fertilizers.
38:55If the price of fertilizers
38:57increases, then what will happen?
38:59Food is expensive.
39:01Third, oil and gas.
39:03In the history of Pakistan,
39:05the prices of gas have increased by 800%
39:07in the last 1.5 years.
39:09Oil and gas companies got cash
39:11from the prices of gas,
39:13but they did not release money
39:15because of the circular debt.
39:17This was the 3rd sector.
39:19These were the 3 sectors
39:21that increased 35,000 points,
39:2352,000 points, 85% growth,
39:25and 5 companies.
39:27You can call it a success.
39:29I have put it in front of you
39:31as an analyst.
39:33Ali Bhai,
39:35let's answer the question
39:37about the capital market.
39:39To portray it as a barometer
39:41to show how fast the economy is growing
39:43is completely wrong.
39:45These are some specific shares
39:47and some specific people
39:49who are benefiting from it.
39:51Look at the Karachi Stock Exchange
39:53as a forward-looking index
39:55and use it
39:57as a barometer
39:59to see
40:01whether people's confidence
40:03and trust
40:05in the country
40:07and the government
40:09is improving or not.
40:11Tell me,
40:13the price-earnings ratio
40:15that reflects the opportunities
40:17for growth,
40:19won't it increase from 4 to 6 times?
40:21Isn't Pakistan's stock market
40:23a forward-looking indicator?
40:25Isn't it the best index in the world?
40:27Even if you reject it,
40:29the international rating agencies
40:31that are giving positive outlooks
40:33and upgrading your outlook,
40:35tell me about it.
40:37The demand is so small
40:39that all these things
40:41are based on people's confidence.
40:43This is a demonstration
40:45of confidence of the domestic
40:47and international investors
40:49that the government is on the right path.
40:51Muzaffar,
40:53please comment on this.
40:55I remember that Mr. Khan
40:57said 500 times
40:59that the biggest problem
41:01is the current account deficit
41:03and the current account surplus.
41:05In that sense,
41:07this is the best economy in the world.
41:09The numbers are based on the current account.
41:11Mr. Khan explained to people
41:13what this term means.
41:15He repeated it so many times
41:17that there is a difference
41:19between imports and exports.
41:21This is the biggest problem of every economy.
41:23If this improves, the economy improves.
41:25This is amazing.
41:27If Mr. Khan was outside,
41:29he would have said that the problem
41:31is not the current account
41:33but the financial account.
41:35You are saying that he is not talking about it.
41:37No, listen to me.
41:39Mr. Mifta is sitting here.
41:41He is a Ph.D. in economics.
41:43He will agree with you.
41:45What is a financial account?
41:47It is where the whole world
41:49sends money to you.
41:51FDI, foreign direct investment,
41:53if you do bonds,
41:55bilateral and multilateral
41:57money comes to you.
41:59Pakistan's financial account
42:01is a demand contraction in this country.
42:03That is why imports are over.
42:05People's money is not sold.
42:07Shopping is over.
42:09The real problem in the last two years
42:11that I have not seen in 75 years
42:13is that Pakistan's financial account
42:15is gone.
42:17Your FDI is over.
42:19You are not doing euro bonds.
42:21No one is bilaterally funding you.
42:23You have taken
42:25multilaterally from the IMF.
42:27The problem is the current account.
42:29If the current account explodes,
42:31it explodes for two reasons.
42:33One, your domestic growth is exploding.
42:35If it is consumption led,
42:37that is a different thing.
42:39Current account deficit sometimes is good.
42:41If you are doing investments.
42:43Mr. Khan, you should not have said this
42:45at that time.
42:47If he was outside,
42:49he would not have explained this.
42:51Mr. Mifta, please respond to this.
42:53This is related to my remittances.
42:55You have to tell me about it.
42:57Mr. Mifta, please give me a chance.
42:59Mr. Mifta will conclude on all three questions.
43:01Mr. Mifta.
43:03My request is that
43:05in everything,
43:07in the economy,
43:09there are many numbers.
43:11In everything, you can find a good thing
43:13or a bad thing.
43:15Obviously, the stock market
43:17has gone up. It is better.
43:19It is better than falling.
43:21There is no doubt about it.
43:23The 1.5 lakh people who work in the stock market,
43:25it is better for them.
43:27Muzammil also used to work in the past.
43:29But for the Pakistanis,
43:31the 23 crore, 98 lakh, 50 thousand
43:33Pakistanis,
43:35nothing has happened yet.
43:37May Allah make the economy work.
43:39What the Muslim League should do
43:41is to do some reforms
43:43according to their government.
43:45Seriously, there are some serious mistakes.
43:47No one has ever done this externally.
43:49Last time,
43:51when Mr. Shahbaz went to China,
43:53he said,
43:55Mr. Shahbaz,
43:57you don't have money to buy poison,
43:59you don't have dollars,
44:01who will pay the 7 billion?
44:03So, be a little smart.
44:05Don't look at everything as politics.
44:07But seriously,
44:09I think we have to stop fighting among ourselves.
44:11Muzammil doesn't like the stock market.
44:13He doesn't like everything.
44:15Ali Bhai doesn't like everything.
44:17Let's realize the fact that
44:19Pakistan is stuck in the wrong place.
44:21Let's stop the remittances.
44:23Along with that,
44:25I think 2025 will be better than 2024.
44:27Economically.
44:29Remittances have increased by 33%.
44:31Even now,
44:33despite increasing by 33%,
44:35the number of remittances in 2022
44:37will be close to that of PTI.
44:39From 2022 to 2024,
44:4118 lakh people have left the country.
44:43These increased remittances
44:45are not
44:47a great achievement.
44:49People have left the country.
44:51And obviously,
44:53they have to send money home.
44:55Let me tell you about 2025.
44:57In 2024,
44:59the fiscal year 2025,
45:01the trends we see this year
45:03will not be more than 1.5-2%.
45:05This means
45:07unemployment in the country,
45:09productivity growth,
45:11and poverty.
45:13All these things
45:15will continue to spread.
45:17It will continue to spread
45:19in the same way as it did in 2024.
45:21You can say that
45:23the current account is this or that.
45:25That's a different issue.
45:27I'm talking about a common man.
45:29Just like it was painful in 2024,
45:31even in 2025,
45:33I don't see any top gear.
45:35Ali Bhai,
45:37I'm sure everyone has the desire
45:39but do you have
45:41anything to say
45:43that Pakistanis
45:45won't be swept away?
45:47I'm not talking about the fiscal year.
45:49I'm talking about the next 12 months.
45:51It will be better than the last 12 months.
45:55You're absolutely right.
45:57I'm not talking about the
45:59sweeping of milk and honey.
46:01I'm talking about the different
46:03indicators we talked about.
46:05The international investors
46:07or the local investors,
46:09whether it's the Karachi Stock Exchange
46:11or the dollar bond
46:13or the bond price
46:15or the ratings.
46:17All of these things
46:19only show
46:21the confidence
46:23that our Qibla is correct.
46:25And the remittances
46:27that you see increasing
46:29that in these 5 months,
46:31you're seeing remittances
46:33of $15 billion and $3 billion
46:35per month,
46:37which will probably touch
46:39$33 billion in a year.
46:41This shows
46:43that Pakistan's Qibla
46:45is correct.
46:47Mr. Mufti, I have one last question.
46:49Do you think it will be better than
46:51the last 25 years?
46:53And please do tell us about the remittances
46:55because this is a political and economic issue.
46:57Do you think that a political party,
46:59like the PTI,
47:01if it's telling people to limit
47:03the interest rates and to stop it
47:05in the next phase,
47:07can this be a serious
47:09issue?
47:11Or do you think it's okay
47:13and it won't make a difference?
47:15Look, the people who send money
47:17for our hard work
47:19here, they're not sending it
47:21for the government,
47:23Shahbaz Sharif,
47:25Ali Parvez.
47:27They're sending it for their parents,
47:29for the safety of their wives and children.
47:31They work very hard to save $200-$300
47:33and send it.
47:35If you don't send money,
47:37it won't make a difference of $1.
47:39It won't make a difference of $1.
47:41Isn't it possible that the illegal channels
47:43that send money,
47:45they encourage the illegal channels
47:47and harm the economy?
47:49Everyone sees
47:51the difference between the interbank rate
47:53and the curb rate.
47:55If they send illegal money,
47:57the dollar will come to Pakistan.
47:59That's what happens.
48:01The state bank can buy it.
48:03I assure you,
48:05I've studied economics,
48:07and I've done some business in Pakistan.
48:09It won't make a difference of $1.
48:11You can call 6 times and see.
48:13The government shouldn't just
48:15make their targets.
48:17It's good to have targets,
48:19but hope is not a plan.
48:21You'll have to do concrete work for it.
48:23I apologize for the mistake I've made.
48:25When Shahbaz Sharif told the people
48:27on the budget to bend their back,
48:29they should have done the same.
48:31When they increased their expenses by 22%,
48:33when they increased their PHDP by 65%,
48:35they told the people
48:37to bend their back.
48:39They should have done the same.
48:41They should have done the same.
48:43It's not right.
48:45That's why there's so much anger in Pakistan.
48:47That's why the life of Pakistanis is difficult.
48:49The macroeconomy is getting better in Pakistan
48:51because of international oil prices.
48:53But the fact is that the microeconomy
48:55and the people's conditions are not getting better.
48:57They'll have to think
48:59that people's conditions will only get better
49:01when they make fundamental reforms.
49:03Thank you to all three guests.
49:05Ali, Muzaffar and Muzaffar.
49:07We'll conclude after the break.
49:31May you live long.
49:33See you in the next episode.
49:35Allah Hafiz.