Sunderland transfer latest after Le Fèe signing plus Stoke City reflections
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Sunland Echo.
00:24My name is Jason Jones, joined by James Copley, as always, and we've got plenty of stuff to
00:29be getting through on this Monday morning. Starting, James, with a very cold and ultimately
00:35very disappointing FA Cup third-round tie against Stoke City at the weekend. Sunderland obviously
00:41fell behind to an early penalty in that game, did equalise through Milan. Oleksiić opening
00:47his account for the club, one positive to take from it, but then went on to lose the game an
00:52extra time, Niall Ennis scoring a winner for the Potters late on. Yeah, it was a weird game,
00:59wasn't it, in a lot of respects, I think it's fair to say. Obviously, not a huge attendance
01:03at the stadium, and dare I say, perhaps a little bit of apathy around the afternoon as well.
01:09I think so, and I don't think that's unique to just Sunderland fans. Obviously, the Sheffield
01:14United crowd was really low, there were low attendances up and down the country. There
01:18were a few notable exceptions, you know, Leeds and Harrogate, a couple of other clubs as well,
01:22but generally, I think and feel that the FA Cup third round has sort of lost its magic, so to
01:27speak. Fair play to all of the brave souls that came to the Stadium of Life because it was very
01:32chilly. You know, football tickets are expensive, I know Sunderland do the best that they can to
01:38keep those ticket prices down, but it's a decision that people have to make ultimately, and I think
01:43what we've seen is the Premier League clubs aren't really too bothered about the early rounds of the
01:48FA Cup, so why should Sunderland fans be as well? Sunderland have received a little bit of stick
01:53really, fans on social media for the low attendance, which I find bizarre, you know, given
01:59Sunderland's average attendance in the Championship is well beyond some Premier League clubs. End of
02:04the day, it's not a competition. I think we all understand that, you know, football is the most
02:09important thing of all the unimportant things, so sometimes a decision does have to be made. I don't
02:14blame anybody who stayed away. It was cold, but yeah, it was a strange game. I think because of
02:22that lower crowd, it did feel like a bit of a pre-season friendly, didn't it? I thought both
02:26teams sort of tentatively came at it like a pre-season friendly. The intensity didn't seem
02:30to be there, you know, there was a lot of sort of lax decision-making and passing, obviously,
02:36from Dan Neal to Simon Newell for the goal and Luke O'Neill giving away the penalty, so there
02:41was all of that sort of stuff. It didn't feel like a proper game, if that makes sense, which
02:46is a shame, and to be honest, my overriding thought was I wish they could have just lost it
02:50in normal time. I think the FA Cup was obviously something that was, you know, quite
02:56largely magical, and I wrote about this on the Sunderland Echo. I still think there were
03:00little aspects of magic in that game. Obviously, Harrison Jones made his stadium of light
03:06debut in his first start for the club. He's a boyhood Sunderland fan, being at the academy from
03:11a very young age, so that's a lovely story, and you know, his family will always remember that. He'll
03:15always remember that, whatever happens in his career, and I hope he goes on to have a fantastic
03:19career, but you always have that moment at the stadium of light. I think that's fantastic, and
03:23you know, I know of a couple of families who were taking primary age school children
03:29to the stadium of light for the first time against Stoke City as well, so that first game for them
03:34is always going to be a little bit magical. So, whilst for me personally it wasn't, you know,
03:38Sunderland's greatest game or most exciting, for others, you know, it can be an important
03:43fixture, and I think there's that little bit of residue-cut magic. I mean, we've played Stoke,
03:48you know, twice already this season, coming into this game, pushing for promotion, so yeah, it did
03:54feel like a bit of a training ground exercise at times, but you know, there's still some
03:58talking points to come out of it. Definitely. I mean, I think you're right. It's a combination
04:02of factors, isn't it? It's like you say, three times against Stoke in a little over a month.
04:07It's not going to get the pulse racing for a lot of people. It's early January, you know,
04:11people are spent up, and it was freezing cold, and I know the weather shouldn't be a factor,
04:14but it was exceptionally cold at the weekend, and it also wasn't a game that was included on
04:19a season ticket, so you know, people are going to have to play extra to go and see Sunderland
04:23play Stoke for the third time in a month. All sorts of factors, but like you say, a lot of
04:28positives to take from it as well, sort of individual moments of promise and the like. So,
04:34obviously, we mentioned Milan Aleksic scoring his first goal for the club. I thought he was
04:37really bright when he came on, as you just said there. Harrison Jones making a debut as well,
04:42and I thought that he equipped himself really well in the middle of the park, and we sort of
04:46mentioned it at the weekend, but really nice to see him alongside two fellow academy graduates
04:52in Dan Neal and Chris Regan. All round, just a positive thing for the player, but also,
04:58excuse me, a testament to Sunderland's youth progression and the way that they've been able
05:03to build as well. Yeah, and credit to Harrison Jones as well, because it takes a lot of hard
05:08work to get to that level of even knocking on the door of a first-team opportunity. I think we
05:13underestimate the toll on these young lads' minds and bodies that it takes. So, he's done hugely
05:18well to get there. Obviously, there's probably a little bit of pressure as well with him being a
05:23young lad from the Sunderland area. He supported Sunderland as a boy. He's probably desperate
05:28for it to work, for him to succeed. He captains the under-21s, and I think the biggest compliment
05:33you can pay him, actually, was that in that middle three, he didn't really look out of place. He
05:38didn't look like an under-21 player, which I thought he did when he came off the bench against
05:42Preston North End in the Carabao Cup. That was a different situation because that team was hugely
05:47disjointed, and he didn't get very long, really, to make an impact. But I thought in from the start,
05:52he showed some nice touches, and it'll be really interesting to see what happens to
05:56Harrison Jones. Obviously, we've signed a midfielder in Enzo Lefebvre. Sam Eddsback
06:02rings back from injury, so you wouldn't imagine Harrison Jones is going to get too many opportunities
06:06in the Championship. We understand that he's probably going to go out on loan,
06:10but you do wonder if that FA Cup appearance has maybe opened a couple of other clubs' eyes to
06:16the possibility of Harrison Jones. It's sort of expected that he could go to the National League,
06:22but you never know. A club higher up the pyramid might have watched that, might have scouted him,
06:26and thought he's worth a punt. So, a fantastic story for him. I'd like to congratulate him
06:31because he's living both of our dreams, isn't he, Jase? We're both Sunderland fans. I thought
06:35the message from his dad, Stephen, on social media before the game was absolutely fantastic,
06:41and just a sort of nice reminder of how much it means to lads from this area. I thought it's
06:48a lovely story, and I hope he goes on to make 100, 200 grand appearances for Sunderland. I really do.
06:53Yeah. Again, I said it at the weekend, but he's a player that we've been harping on about for a
06:57long time because we watch a lot of the Under-21s. He is a consistent, standout performer for me,
07:04alongside Trey Ogunsui, who also made his debut. Obviously, difficult circus dancers for him. He
07:09came off the bench quite late on and didn't really have too much of an opportunity to prove himself,
07:14but it is a first-team debut, and I think that that is just rewards for the performances that
07:20he's been putting in this season because he has been borderline sensational for the Under-21s.
07:25It's easy to forget that he is playing above his age group. He's scoring consistently. He's in the
07:30mid-teens already for his goal return, so I think Ogunsui getting a little run out, it's nice to
07:37see, and I think it was justified as well. I think he's earned that, to be fair. In terms of other
07:42debuts, of course, we saw Salih Sabdal-Samad for the very first time in a Sunderland shirt. Again,
07:50maybe not the easiest set of circumstances for him to come in, but did you see enough from him
07:55to suggest that he could bring something to this side? No, absolutely. To me, although it wasn't
08:03a master-class performance or anything like that, and he arguably made a mistake for the winner,
08:09didn't he? For Nylander's winner, he was involved in that sort of mix-up, but for me, I thought
08:16he's so tidy on the ball. When he came on, I just watched him, which was probably to the detriment
08:23of the rest of my reporting at the time, but I sort of just watched him and I thought the
08:26positions he was taking up were superb. He always looked to be in space. I'm not going to over-egg
08:31it because, obviously, he didn't get a chance to show too much. I thought his passing was decent.
08:36He was always looking to get the ball. It's his first football in something like seven or eight
08:41months, which is a long time. It's his first game of any sort of meaning. I think he played
08:47once in pre-season when he was still in France, but I thought it was interesting that he sort of
08:51dropped straight in at that sixth position that allowed Dan Neil to bomb on in a number eight
08:55position. Dan Neil ended up going to centre-back later in the game, but I thought that was
08:58interesting. So, yes, I saw enough to be excited. Obviously, I'll put the brakes on that a little
09:05bit because it's not a league game and he's still getting up to speed, but I thought you can just
09:10tell when somebody's a football player, can't you? I just thought, yes, he's got some serious
09:15touches about him. He can control the ball, he can pass. I was really impressed with his desire
09:19and work rate at times. I know he was probably coming on and trying to impress and imprint
09:23himself on the game, but I thought he ran quite well for the time that he was on the field. So,
09:28I think it's great to have him as an option going forward. As I mentioned before, you look at
09:33Sunderland's midfield now and Riggs is back, Sam Edds is back, Lefebvre is an option for Burnley.
09:38You've got Dan Neil and Joe Bellingham. Milan Aleksic has floated around as well,
09:43then Harrison Jones underneath that. Suddenly, it's really, really well-stocked.
09:48It is, it is. You start to wonder when all those options are back, who the man who probably won't
09:55get the minutes is. We've mentioned all those names, Alan Brown perhaps, but again, he's been
10:02very impressive for the most part over the early part of the campaign. So, Sunderland have gone
10:07from a position whereby they had a threadbare midfield to one that is suddenly starting to look
10:14like a little bit of an embarrassment of riches, dare I say. Obviously, Enzo Lefebvre was paraded
10:20in front of the Sunderland crowd, that beleaguered Sunderland crowd, just before kick-off. Just a
10:25quick word on him as well, because we sat here a week ago and basically said, I'm not entirely
10:31sure that's going to happen. I made a fool out of both of us because Sunderland did get that
10:35deal over the line, and what a deal it is as well. Yeah, in fairness to us, I do remember us
10:42both saying that it sounds like something Sunderland could do in terms of there's a
10:45Labrice link. So, I'll give us a little bit of credit on that. But yeah, I think our initial
10:51reaction just speaks to how much of a coup it is, doesn't it really? Because it's the sort of
10:54transfer link that when it lands across your desk, you think, well, that can't happen. He went for
10:59£20 million, he's on £80,000 a week. It's a pipe dream. There's just a little bit of interest,
11:03we're just chancing our arm. But amazing work to get it over the line so quickly. I mean,
11:08when did that transfer go through? On the 11th or the 10th or something like that,
11:12which is very rare for Sunderland to get deals over the line so quickly. So, I think it gives
11:17everybody a lift, everybody a boost, it drives standards. Labrice is raving about him, isn't he,
11:22in terms of Labrice mentioned in his post-match presser that he's known him since he was 10 or
11:2811, so he feels he can get the best out of him. And, you know, the sort of the wonder kid
11:34rehabilitation factory continues, doesn't it? Because I know he's 24, but his career has just
11:39dropped off a little bit at Roberts, he's had three managers in a season and he just needs to
11:43go somewhere and play. You know, by all accounts from the YouTube clips we watched from all of the
11:48experts that we've spoken to or listened to on European football, he's a top talent. You know,
11:53Julian Laronge was saying that he was under consideration for Didier Duchamp's French squad
11:59at one point in time. There's the statistics when he was at Lorient under Labrice and his passing
12:06and his chance creation was up there with like Kylian Mbappe and all that sort of stuff. So,
12:09there's a fair bit to get excited about. Obviously, you don't know for sure until he plays
12:14for Sunderland because at this club anything can go wrong, but it's hugely, hugely exciting,
12:18a massive positive to get it over the line early. And I think it indicates, doesn't it,
12:23that Sunderland's hierarchy are really serious about promotion this season and the chance we've
12:28got. We've talked about that chance, haven't we? We've got an opportunity here in January with the
12:33league as open as it is, with Sunderland having accumulated so many points already this season,
12:38that there's an opportunity there to go and maybe get promotion at the Premier League or
12:42certainly get really, really close. The automatics are in touch and distance,
12:45you'd back us in the playoffs, we just need a few more reinforcements. And it's good to see
12:50that one of those squad halls has been filled, not only filled, but filled with serious, serious,
12:57serious quality as well. There's a lot being said about his wages, Sunderland covering the wages,
13:02but when you break it down, I think that works out as something like £1.7 million for the six
13:07months. So, £1.7 million for six months to get a player of his quality in wages. It makes sense,
13:13there's no loan fee. Obviously, if Sunderland get promoted, they'll have an obligation to buy,
13:18you'll become Sunderland's highest ever transfer fee, which means we don't have to speak the name
13:24Didier Endong anymore after that. So, yes, it's hugely positive. I'm fascinated to see how it
13:29works out. He can play as a six, as an eight, he likes to advance the ball. There's a lot being
13:35said about who he's going to come in for, but I think it's excellent for Dan Neal and Joe
13:40Bellingham and Chris Rigg to have that competition now. I'm not saying they were complacent at all,
13:44far from it, but I think a good dressing room sees that transfer and thinks,
13:50one, this is good for our squad and our promotion prospects, but two, I really need to open my
13:54game now. And I think that's what you'll get from Rigg, Neal and Joe, because that's the sort of
13:59characters they are. Yeah, absolutely. I would echo that. And also just rest and rotation options,
14:05there's three young lads, even Dan Neal, I think we forget sometimes how young he still is, and
14:13three young lads who have played an awful lot of football out of necessity this season. So,
14:16just having another body in there, someone who you would imagine someone will be able to trust
14:22implicitly to probably raise, but at the very least maintain the standard of that midfield
14:28cohort. So, it's a really good deal for my money. And one that's got not just Sunderland fans,
14:35you know, the sort of wider footballing community really excited, which doesn't
14:40doesn't always happen when Sunderland transfers, does it? But this is one that's really caught the
14:44eye. Obviously, we are still in January, and it's going to be interesting to see where else
14:51Sunderland look to strengthen. One of the positions that we've spoke about a lot is fullback. And then
14:58obviously, Addy Elise suffered that injury at the weekend, still not got a proper diagnosis on how
15:05bad that is. But it certainly, it didn't look good, did it? And in his post-match press conference,
15:10Regis Lebris suggested that he thought initially it looked it looked like it could be a serious
15:15one for Elise. And I mean, obviously, an awful blow for him because he's had such an awful run
15:22of luck with injuries, but also now, Sunderland in a position where they need to go and get a
15:28fullback, do you think? I think so. It just leaves Dennis Sirkin really at left back now,
15:33does not. Obviously, Niall Huggins is out for an extended period, probably won't see him again this
15:37season. Luke O'Neill can play over at left back, Trey Hulme can play over at left back, but obviously,
15:42that's not ideal because then you take away from the centre of defence or right back where, I mean,
15:47centrally, Sunderland do have a few more options, but you could even argue at right back that it's
15:51sort of slim pickings as well. So, I think it would be good if we could sign somebody who could
15:55perhaps play on both sides. I think, obviously, normally, that would be Huggins, but he's injured
16:01as well. I was gutted for Adji, though. He's a player I really like and playing multiple positions,
16:07you know, never seems to get any luck, does he really? But, you know, the positive from the game,
16:13I think, was that Hjelda did okay. He did well playing in two different positions. His sort of
16:20chance for a future might have been up in the air until this injury, but I think that injury pretty
16:24much signals that he's going to stay. Lebris strongly hinted towards that scenario in his
16:29post-match presser. So, yeah, gutted for Adji. You know, he seems like a really, really nice guy as
16:35well. As you say, he can't catch a break, but I think, as well as goals, I think a bit of defensive
16:41cover is definitely a priority now. Those are the two I would say. Yeah, yeah, I think you're
16:47absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, I was impressed with Hjelda. I thought he did okay, to be perfectly
16:52honest, and I think that he's been a little bit of a forgotten man, hasn't he? But he is, he's a
16:56body and he's an option, and we know that Lebris rates him. You know, he said before, he was given
17:02the captain's armband in that Carabao Cup game against Preston, if I remember rightly. So, you
17:07know, he clearly believes that there is a player in there. Again, a player who we're talking about,
17:12and he's still only 21. It's ridiculous looking at how young this squad is and how we sort of
17:18brush over it sometimes. But, you know, I think that, yeah, I think you're right. I can't see
17:23Hjelda going now, and I think another option besides is needed. But, yeah, like you said,
17:30as far as Elise is concerned, you just hope that it's not as bad as it initially looked, because
17:35yeah, it's just so, it's so awful to see that, isn't it? A player who, like you say,
17:40is contributing to the season despite having injuries already, and a player who really does
17:45deserve to be able to just get a run of fitness, because, you know, it's obvious that he's a talent,
17:49and he's a talent who needs to be playing football. So, yeah, real shame on that one.
17:54Obviously, you mentioned there another priority for Sunderland is bringing in a striker. A couple
17:59of new transfer links over the weekend. One being Tom Cannon, who scored the penalty for Stoke City
18:05on Saturday and who was linked with Sunderland over the summer as well, prior to moving to the
18:09Bet365 Stadium. And then the other one being Ben Brereton-Diaz, who's currently on the books at
18:14Southampton. Just interested to get your thoughts on those two links, because they're two players
18:19who have proven that they can do at a championship level, and two players who you would imagine
18:24would be able to come in and immediately ease some of that burden on Wilson Isidor.
18:30Yeah, the Tom Cannon one I find really interesting, because he's obviously a long-term
18:34Sunderland target. Sunderland lodged a couple of bids for him in the summer. He ended up going to
18:38Stoke City on loan. When we spoke to Pete Smith, who's the Stoke writer, before the game during
18:43the preview pod, I asked him about Tom Cannon and he said he couldn't see him being recalled
18:48in January. There's been reports since then that Leicester might want to cash in at around
18:53£7 million, but Pete was saying that he reckons Cannon could eventually go for £10-12 million,
18:59so Leicester are desperate for cash now in terms of PSR or trying to manoeuvre in the Premier League.
19:05I'm not sure. I don't know Leicester's situation specifically. So, I find that one really
19:11interesting, because obviously Sunderland like him and have done for quite a while. He obviously
19:15scores goals against Sunderland. So, in terms of being able to maybe shell out £7 million,
19:20I think that seems sort of doable. Whether he'd come here on loan until the end of the season,
19:27I'm not quite sure. The Diaz one, I don't really know how to read. He's reportedly preferring a
19:34move to Sheffield United on loan, where he's spent time before. He's obviously a really,
19:38really talented player. He can play off the left as well, where Sunderland have some injuries. I
19:43think I read with the Tom Cannon one as well that he has to be recalled from Stoke by Leicester by
19:48Wednesday, so that's certainly one to watch. But in terms of the two players, I can't speak whether
19:53either will definitely sign or not. But again, as with Le Fay, it's encouraging to see Sunderland
20:00ramping up their transfer business a little bit in terms of who they're going to target. Obviously,
20:04I know Cannon was a target last summer, but throwback to last January or the January before,
20:09you wouldn't have foreseen Sunderland being linked with a player of the calibre of Diaz,
20:14would you? I know his circumstances have perhaps changed a little bit since then as well. He's not
20:18getting as much game time as he would like at Southampton. But it just signals that there's
20:24an opportunity in Sunderland's border, a push in a little bit here. So, I'm really intrigued to see
20:28what happens. I'm really intrigued to see who we get. I expect to see us linked with a few more
20:32names. There's Evan Ferguson as well, who was linked before in the window. That's gone a bit
20:37quiet after the Bright manager and the CEO's comments. So, I think there's probably lots at
20:43play and a lot also obviously depends on selling clubs, on loan clubs and what Sunderland can and
20:49can't afford, what they're willing to go to. So, yeah, watch this space, I would say, because it
20:53seems to be hotting up a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. And again, you sort of mentioned
20:59in there, but we're in a situation now where Sunderland appear to be looking at players who
21:04can come in and make an immediate impact. It feels as if the sort of the mission statements changed a
21:10little bit since the summer transfer window. It's not so much about bringing in players who fit that
21:15model. Obviously, you know, it's served some of them really, really well, if you look how far
21:19they've come in recent seasons. But it's not necessarily about bringing in players who they
21:25can develop this window. It seems to be more about bringing in players who are capable of
21:32making an immediate impact and sort of really pushing them towards what they will hope is an
21:38automatic promotion race this season, James. I think you're on mute there, mate.
21:46My apologies. As I said, there's definitely an opportunity there. We can all see it. We can all
21:50sense it, can't we? We've got past Christmas and the new year and we're still in the race. So,
21:55yeah, I think it's hugely positive to see Sunderland's sort of transfer hierarchy moving
22:00on to maybe the next stage of their plan at Sunderland. Whether that should have happened
22:06before is a question for another day. Maybe it could have happened under Mowbray. We've spoke
22:11about that at length. But yeah, I think it's hugely positive and it's hugely exciting for sure.
22:16Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, we are halfway through the January transfer window.
22:20There's still plenty of business to be done. Like James says, very much a case of watching this
22:24space. But that is all we've got time for on this week's show. Join us again next week when we'll
22:29be discussing all of the latest Sunderland news and developments. In the meantime, follow all the
22:33latest Blackcaps news on the Sunderland Echo. You can give us a follow on social media as well.
22:38Thanks to James. Thanks to you for listening. We'll see you next week.
22:41We should actually as well have a preview pod for the Burnley game tomorrow, I'm hoping.
22:46So, I'll just tag that on the end. There's more roles coming.
22:51There we go.
22:53Great. Happy days. Thanks, Jase.