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00:00Well, several billionaires and tech titans have been trying to get into Donald Trump's
00:04good graces and have donated millions to the inaugural festivities today.
00:08Those include Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk, the billionaire chief executive
00:13of Tesla.
00:15Musk actually spoke at Trump's Inauguration Eve rally last night.
00:20This victory is the start, really.
00:26What matters going forward is to actually make significant changes, cement those changes,
00:33and set the foundation for America to be strong for a century, for centuries, forever.
00:42And make America great again.
00:45We're going to talk a bit more about Elon Musk, the world's richest man, and his influence
00:50on Donald Trump now with Stephen Feldstein from the Carnegie Endowment for International
00:54Peace in Washington.
00:55Stephen, thank you for taking the time to speak to us very early this morning.
00:59We just heard Musk there saying he wanted to cement changes for centuries.
01:04Just break it down for us.
01:05What changes does he want to cement permanently right now?
01:09Yeah, well, thanks for having me.
01:11It's a pretty historic day and one perhaps unanticipated.
01:16With Elon Musk and other sort of tech titans that have really come into Donald Trump's
01:22corner not only in the last few weeks, but frankly, for most of the campaign, I think
01:28what we're seeing for them, they see a real opportunity to push forward their innovation
01:33agenda, to kind of get away from regulations and some of the constraints they felt they
01:39experienced under the Biden administration, and to sort of move forward with less and
01:44less restrictions when it comes to a host of technologies that they're pushing from
01:48crypto to A.I. to space based technology and so forth.
01:53So I think they really see an opportunity to kind of push back on what otherwise has
01:57been, I think, over the last four to eight years, I think a growing push for regulation,
02:02whether from Europe, whether from Biden, the Democrats or otherwise, I think they see a
02:06real opportunity to kind of move forward in an agenda that will fit their interests and
02:12suit their needs.
02:13So you talk about their interests.
02:15We're talking about billionaires here.
02:17Musk is now going to be sharing responsibility for the new Department of Government Efficiency
02:20with another billionaire, Vivek Ramaswamy, that they want to slash public spending, which
02:26means many middle and lower class Americans are probably going to lose out.
02:30Would you say is it too far fetched to say Musk and Trump are launching a new class war?
02:37I don't know that I would go so far in that respect, in part because so much of their
02:42support actually comes from blue collar workers, lower middle income voters.
02:47And so I don't think that it is meant to be a repudiation of that base.
02:51I think what it is meant to be is their sense is that government's in the way.
02:55Their philosophy, and this is not this is part of a kind of traditional orthodoxy for
02:59the Republican Party, is that the best way to help people to bring about public services
03:04is to improve efficiency and to move the government out and to move the private sector in.
03:09So I don't see it.
03:10They see it as well.
03:11Let's find a way to tamp down and start a class war.
03:15I think that they see it as a way.
03:16Let's make government better.
03:18Now, many would argue that that's not the way to do it, that cutting services in the
03:22name of, quote, efficiency will actually lead to those outcomes.
03:25But that's the argument that they're making.
03:26That's the logic that they're they're pursuing.
03:28You were talking earlier, Stephen, about regulation, and I'm curious about the effect Musk and
03:33other digital titans like Mark Zuckerberg could have on the European Union.
03:37Europe, of course, has long been one of the safest digital spaces for Internet users.
03:41But now critics say that Musk, Zuckerberg and Trump are out to dismantle these EU digital
03:46rules and the democratic values that they were built on.
03:49Do you think that's likely to happen?
03:51And if so, how?
03:52Should Europe be worried?
03:54I think there will be pressure.
03:55You know, I don't want to project too far ahead in terms of what that will look like.
03:59But I do think certainly if you look at the criticisms that they've levied, both against
04:04sort of the kind of similar type of regulations that we saw under President Biden and also
04:10what they said and commented on Europe and their belief that Europe is trying to constrain
04:15their growth and constrain innovation, I think there will be a lot of pressure that's built.
04:21What could that look like?
04:22So that, you know, obviously tariffs are on the table, tariffs are on the table all around
04:25for all kinds of things.
04:26But certainly one would think in the types of negotiations and discussions that will
04:30occur in subsequent days and weeks that tariffs might be on the table in terms of, well, if
04:35you can keep pursuing actions against our different types of technologies, perhaps you
04:40will see a quid pro quo in terms of penalties that will be accrued against your own economies.
04:45Now, that being said, I do think that there is a little bit of a discrepancy between big
04:48tech and sort of small tech, at least in the past Donald Trump hasn't been a fan of big
04:55tech and conservatives have really pushed back as what they say is a censorship agenda.
04:59So I think there's a little bit of a nuance when it comes to what types of tech particularly
05:04will the Trump administration push for and where will they be a little more of a nuance.
05:09And that I don't completely know yet.
05:11Stephen, just very briefly before you go, I mean, how long could this Musk Trump honeymoon
05:15last?
05:16Do you think there could be clashes down the line?
05:18For example, I'm thinking of of Trump's other large MAGA base who are very, for example,
05:23anti-immigration, whereas tech billionaires like Musk have said they do want to keep hiring
05:27top level immigrants.
05:28We were talking before about slashing public spending, which wouldn't necessarily be good
05:31for lower income MAGA supporters.
05:33I mean, do you think cracks will start to show?
05:37You know, the MAGA coalition is a pretty unwieldy coalition and it's an unlikely one.
05:41And I never would have predicted a couple of years out that you would see this type
05:47of grouping come together.
05:49So I don't know that it works in the long term.
05:51And I also know that the egos of Musk, Marc Andreessen, Trump and many others is pretty
05:57large and already the cracks are, the fissures are showing.
06:02You know, it's hard to say, you know, well, will there be a falling out?
06:05That's certainly possible.
06:07There's a lot of inconsistencies, but I will say this, that policy inconsistency has been
06:11a hallmark of Trump and personal relationships and transactions is what matters.
06:15And to that extent, I wouldn't predict tomorrow in the short term that this will fall apart.
06:21But I think in the medium term, I think there are real question marks about how long this
06:25type of coalition will endure.
06:28Stephen, thank you so much for that.
06:31Stephen Feldstein there reporting for us from Washington.
06:34Thanks for having me.