上田と女がDEEPに吠える夜 2025年1月21日 「嫌知らず」って知ってますか-人間関係に亀裂を生む「認知のゆがみ」とは!-
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TVTranscript
00:00I'm the type of person who doesn't know what to say and just goes for it.
00:04When I talked to these five people, they were like,
00:05when did you kiss?
00:08The theme of tonight's Deep Talk is...
00:11I think it's people who mistake flirting for humor.
00:14I think it's a commercial.
00:16I've been flirted with many times,
00:19and when I'm like, that's enough,
00:22I'm like, does this person have anything else to say?
00:25Sometimes I think I can't communicate.
00:28My husband teases me.
00:31Even if I say I don't like it,
00:33he doesn't feel like I really mean it.
00:37A word that's become a hot topic on social media recently,
00:40the word, Iyashirazu.
00:42For example, even if you say,
00:44don't do it because you don't like it,
00:47he doesn't take it seriously
00:49and indicates that he won't stop.
00:52People who can't admit their mistakes
00:55and tend to think in a worse direction than necessary
00:58are called cognitive distortions.
01:01If this goes too far,
01:03it can cause a crack in human relationships.
01:06So the theme of tonight's Deep Talk is
01:09cognitive distortions.
01:11First of all, this kind of cognitive distortion.
01:14When I'm drunk and I want to go home early the next day,
01:20I'm like, what time is it?
01:22I feel like it's about time.
01:24I'm like, I'm totally fine.
01:26If he looks at the clock, let him look at it.
01:29I go out to hang out with him.
01:31It's my first time, so I make him look at the clock.
01:34But on the way home, he asks me a lot.
01:38I don't need you.
01:40Cognitive distortions that interpret things more positively than they actually are.
01:45In addition, cognitive distortions caused by extreme negative thinking.
01:50But when he comes home drunk,
01:53the moment he suddenly stops,
01:55I'm like, oh, is he angry?
01:57Did he say something?
01:59That happens sometimes.
02:01So tonight, we're going to talk about cognitive distortions in depth.
02:06The night when a man and a woman talk in depth.
02:13This program is a talk show for adults talking about deep topics.
02:17Did you know the phrase, Iyashirazu?
02:20No, it's the first time I've heard it.
02:22I only know Oyashirazu.
02:24I don't think that's what it's about.
02:28It's the Iyashirazu that's talked about on social media.
02:31Specifically, there's a case like this.
02:33A woman who had her head hit by her husband on Sunday
02:36said, stop because it hurts.
02:38Her husband said, it's an expression of affection.
02:41She didn't stop him.
02:43Her husband suddenly brought his co-worker home.
02:46Her room was a mess.
02:48She wanted him to contact her in advance.
02:51He said, I don't care.
02:53She didn't listen to him.
02:55Is there anyone like that around you?
02:57I think I'm the type of person who does Iyashirazu as much as I want.
03:01Ueda-san might be the same.
03:03In the world of variety shows,
03:05if there's something, I play with it.
03:07I'm always like that.
03:09It's Iyashirazu.
03:11He was there.
03:14He might be at a drinking party with a friend.
03:17He might be doing it without realizing he's saying no.
03:20That's right.
03:21That's a little scary.
03:23He's just getting excited.
03:25Don't you do that?
03:27It's scary.
03:29I always think I'm saying that.
03:33What do you think, Yamana-sensei?
03:35Does Iyashirazu come from the distortion of recognition?
03:41That's right.
03:43People with Iyashirazu have a personal boundary.
03:46They don't recognize their own boundaries.
03:50It's okay up to this point,
03:52but if you don't say specifically that it's more difficult,
03:55you won't be able to convey it.
03:57There are also people who rely too much on positive thinking.
04:00People who say, I'm okay.
04:03People who underestimate their own problems.
04:07There's a distortion of recognition.
04:09It's not uncommon for people to become Iyashirazu.
04:13Maekawa-san, what do you think about Iyashirazu and the distortion of recognition?
04:17I think there's a lot of Iyashirazu in the relationship.
04:25In my experience,
04:27when I go out to eat with a few people,
04:29I say, let's go on a date next time.
04:33If I don't like it,
04:35I say it very clearly.
04:38If it's August or summer,
04:40I say, I won't go on a date this year.
04:43You shouldn't say that.
04:45I should say no to that.
04:49But after that,
04:51when I'm free,
04:53or when I get a call,
04:55I'm often told that I'm pretending to be a woman.
05:01Even if I say it so clearly,
05:03if I say no,
05:05it means I'm a kind woman in the world.
05:07I think people who say no easily
05:09are more likely to have a negative impact.
05:13Maekawa-san, you're the one with the least impact.
05:15I think so.
05:17But you can say that.
05:19You can say,
05:21I'm not good at this person.
05:23When you're invited to a meal.
05:25I say no a lot, too.
05:27How do you say no?
05:29I have a job.
05:31You can say no to that.
05:33You can say, I'll invite you to a meal.
05:35You can say, I'll invite you to a meal.
05:37Then, I say no.
05:39I say, I understand.
05:41I'll call you when I understand.
05:43I'll call you in a month.
05:45I was waiting for you to call me.
05:47I'll call you in a month.
05:49What happened?
05:51The representative of Japan.
05:53What happened?
05:55I give up.
05:57I give up and go to a meal.
05:59I'll invite you to a meal.
06:01Will all the members of Rampage come?
06:03This is a celebration.
06:05I'll invite 16 people.
06:07It's a nuisance to invite so many people.
06:09Harada-san, do you say no?
06:11I might say,
06:13I'm married.
06:15I'm married, too.
06:17That's probably what will happen.
06:19Then, I'll make a really loud voice
06:21and go home.
06:23Why?
06:25Why is that?
06:27That's extreme.
06:29How about you, Sano-san?
06:31Have you ever experienced
06:33that you might be a nuisance?
06:35I don't do anything I don't like.
06:37I don't do anything I don't like.
06:39I talk a lot about
06:41what I think is OK.
06:43For example,
06:45when I share information about beauty
06:47with a girl,
06:49I say, I recently got Botox here,
06:51so I'm in good shape.
06:53But when another friend
06:55comes over,
06:57I share information
06:59about her, too.
07:01I see.
07:03I don't mind
07:05sharing information,
07:07but she said
07:09it was a secret.
07:11I was sad
07:13when she said
07:15she didn't want me to tell her.
07:17That's possible.
07:19When I go to a drinking party,
07:21I don't have a lot of
07:23friends who are good at
07:25talking to each other.
07:27I think everyone is having fun,
07:29so when I go out with these five,
07:31I ask, when did you kiss?
07:33Then everyone gets along.
07:35You might think it's the entrance,
07:37but it's the exit.
07:39It's distorted.
07:41It's distorted.
07:43Ms. Yamura,
07:45can you explain the distortion of recognition?
07:47The distortion of recognition
07:49is a technical term
07:51used to describe
07:53the way you perceive things
07:55or the distortion of interpretation.
07:57It's a negative term
07:59because you're hated
08:01just because you don't get
08:03a reply on LINE.
08:05Your subordinates
08:07shouldn't leave
08:09before their boss does.
08:11You're attacked
08:13because you're trapped.
08:15Ms. Harada,
08:17do you ever feel
08:19like you're being hated?
08:21I don't have much confidence
08:23in myself,
08:25so I think I'm being hated
08:27by the people I meet.
08:29That's what I do.
08:31I'm an illustrator,
08:33so I don't meet a lot of people
08:35at home.
08:37Before I meet people,
08:39about a week or two ago,
08:41I simulated
08:43a conversation
08:45or a topic
08:47and did a first greeting
08:49with this kind of energy.
08:51I did it alone in the living room.
08:53Alone in the living room?
08:55I did it for the first time in a while.
08:57That's cute.
08:59When I'm working on a TV show,
09:01I usually
09:03wear a cat
09:05on the day
09:07I meet a lot of people.
09:09I think the public image
09:11of the world towards me
09:13is that I'm a private person
09:15so I wear a cat.
09:17Is that your image?
09:19You're in a hurry to change your public image.
09:21When did you hear that?
09:23I think everyone has
09:25that kind of image,
09:27so I wear a cat.
09:29Ms. Harada,
09:31what do you think of
09:33Ms. Harada's story?
09:35Is there a distortion of recognition?
09:37Yes. In Ms. Harada's case,
09:39when she meets people,
09:41she has a distortion of recognition
09:43that she wears a cat
09:45in the image of a private person.
09:47In Ms. Harada's case,
09:49when she was told by someone
09:51or when she was written in a comment,
09:53from one experience,
09:55she has a distortion of recognition
09:57that everyone thinks so.
09:59That's what I felt.
10:01Is there anyone
10:03like Ms. Maekawa
10:05who has a negative thought?
10:07When it's always negative,
10:09for example,
10:11Ms. Maekawa has a positive thought,
10:13but when it's always negative,
10:15Ms. Harada has a negative thought,
10:17so she gets tired.
10:19Ms. Maekawa has a positive thought.
10:21I think I have a positive thought, too.
10:23I think I have a positive thought, too.
10:25I think I have a positive thought, too.
10:27I'm a bit like Ms. Harada.
10:29Before I meet people,
10:31when I go out to eat with my seniors,
10:33I try to think about
10:35a list of questions.
10:37I don't want people to think
10:39that I'm a bad person.
10:41I don't want people to hate me.
10:43In counseling,
10:45there are many people like that.
10:47There are many people who say
10:49that you have to make others happy
10:51or give them a positive impression.
10:53Psychology has the principle of variability.
10:55When you try to relax
10:57and enjoy yourself,
10:59your partner will also feel
11:01that you are having fun and relaxing.
11:03First of all, I want you to remember
11:05that enjoying yourself
11:07is a very important thing.
11:09I want to ask you about
11:11the negative thoughts around me.
11:13Ms. Emiko Kawamura
11:15was very negative.
11:17When we worked together,
11:19she said,
11:21was Mr. Okubo okay?
11:23She said,
11:25was Mr. Ueda okay?
11:27She said,
11:29was Mr. Ueda okay?
11:31She said,
11:33was Mr. Ueda okay?
11:35If you give a positive impression
11:37to someone who has always been negative,
11:39you can say,
11:41I laughed a lot.
11:43If you express your feelings
11:45in a linguistic way,
11:47you can feel at ease.
11:49If you say,
11:51I laughed a lot,
11:53it's annoying.
11:55By the way,
11:57there are different types
11:59of cognitive distortions,
12:01so you can check
12:03your own cognitive distortions.
12:05I'd like to check
12:07your own cognitive distortions.
12:09If you ask your subordinate
12:11to do a job,
12:13what do you think?
12:15I don't want to do it.
12:17If you want to do it,
12:19you can do anything
12:21except me.
12:25I'd like to check
12:27your own cognitive distortions.
12:29If you ask your subordinate
12:31to do a job,
12:33what do you think?
12:35What do you think?
12:37If someone says
12:39I did a bad job,
12:41I'll do it.
12:43I see.
12:45How about you, Ms. Harada?
12:47I think I did a bad job.
12:49I think I did a bad job.
12:51I think I did a bad job.
12:53How about you, Ms. Maekawa?
12:55If someone says I did a bad job,
12:57I think I did a bad job.
12:59I think I did a bad job.
13:01I think I did a bad job.
13:03I think I did a bad job.
13:05I think I did a bad job.
13:07I think I did a bad job.
13:09I think I did a bad job.
13:11I think I did a bad job.
13:13I think I did a bad job.
13:15I think I did a bad job.
13:17I think I did a bad job.
13:19I think I did a bad job.
13:21I think I did a bad job.
13:23I think I did a bad job.
13:25I think I did a bad job.
13:27I think I did a bad job.
13:29I think I did a bad job.
13:31I thought,
13:33she doesn't like me,
13:35She doesn't want to work for me.
13:37I know how you feel about it,
13:39but depending on me,
13:41she ends up dating someone else.
13:43You'll go that far!?
13:45We're just joking.
13:47Maybe she doesn't like me,
13:49but maybe she doesn't want to do it
13:51after I asked her so many things.
13:53Maybe she doesn't like me,
13:55What about you, Ueda-san?
13:57I don't want to do it.
13:59I'll do it somewhere else.
14:01I don't want to do it anymore.
14:03I don't want to do it anymore.
14:05I don't want to do it anymore.
14:07I've prepared three typical patterns of distortion.
14:09I've prepared three typical patterns of distortion.
14:11I'd like to introduce them to you.
14:13A. He's a subordinate.
14:15He should take on all the work.
14:17He's a perfectionist.
14:19B. If he makes that face,
14:21I won't ask him to do it anymore.
14:23C. He doesn't like me.
14:25If it was Marumaru-san's request,
14:27he would have accepted it.
14:29It's a negative delusion.
14:31Sanosu-san is A.
14:33He's A.
14:35He's A.
14:37He's A.
14:39He's A.
14:41He's A.
14:43He's A.
14:45He's A.
14:47He's A.
14:49He's A.
14:51I didn't find the position difficult when I met him.
14:53I didn't find the position difficult when I met him.
14:55I wonder if he's had bad thoughts about it.
14:57I wonder if he's had bad thoughts about it.
14:59As I said to you before,
15:01I think of them
15:03as a however warning of the dissonance.
15:05As a however warning of the dissonance.
15:07Like, he's a bit tired,
15:09but we can talk about it next time.
15:11He was overdoing his work recently.
15:13Let's ask to do something faster next time when we can.
15:15Is the example of Dissonance.
15:17How can he be corrected?
15:19There are times when I feel like I'm the worst subordinate.
15:24But I ask myself, what's the basis?
15:27What is it really like?
15:29The people who have a lot of options are the ones who have a flat sense of direction.
15:33Are they just tired? Did I overdo it?
15:36Or am I just not feeling well today?
15:38If you practice giving yourself a lot of options,
15:42you'll gradually get a flat sense of direction.
15:47Ms. Harada, do you have any other problems or worries
15:51when communicating with people?
15:54When I meet people a few times,
15:56I feel like the hurdles get higher and higher.
15:59Every time I meet someone,
16:01I feel like I've done something wrong
16:03and I've been criticized by the other person.
16:06Every time I go home,
16:08I reflect on my actions.
16:11I wonder if I've done something wrong.
16:14Sometimes I ask myself,
16:16did I really do something wrong?
16:20I see. How about you, Ms. Tano?
16:22There are a lot of times when I can't say what I want to say.
16:27For example, when I go out to eat Korean food with four friends,
16:32the three of us like spicy food.
16:34I don't like spicy food,
16:36but I think everyone likes it.
16:38I see.
16:40I don't like spicy food,
16:42so I ask the three of us to eat together.
16:45But I don't think it's good for either of us.
16:48I see.
16:49Ms. Tano doesn't like spicy food.
16:51I think it's spicy.
16:53For people who want to eat spicy food,
16:55it's a little mild.
16:56It's like no one's happy.
16:59Maybe it's better not to participate in it.
17:01If the three of us went,
17:03we might have been able to eat a lot of spicy food.
17:05It's pretty negative.
17:07I can't say what I want to say.
17:09You need to check in advance.
17:11Is it spicy?
17:13I can't eat spicy food.
17:15I might cause trouble.
17:17It's true that you need to check in advance.
17:20It looks like it's settled.
17:24Yoshino, do you have anything you're not good at?
17:26I'm really...
17:30I want to tell people that it's very important
17:34to make your boundaries a language.
17:38It's also being streamed on VIVA and Hulu.
17:40We're looking forward to your favorite subscription.
17:43In the program, we're looking for your concerns.
17:46It's hard to tell your family and friends,
17:48but if you have any concerns you want to consult with women,
17:51please contact us.
17:53Yoshino, do you have anything you're not good at?
17:55LDH is an image of drinking a lot of alcohol.
17:59I'm really weak.
18:02I'm LDH, so I drink a lot.
18:05I'm often asked to drink with me.
18:09But I really can't drink.
18:11Do you drink without saying anything?
18:14Yes, as a man.
18:16It's embarrassing.
18:18I can't drink.
18:19It's distorted, isn't it?
18:21It's a thought that men should have.
18:24It's not like,
18:26I'm sorry, I'm LDH, but I can't drink.
18:31It's not like that.
18:34Yamada-sensei, do you have any advice for people who are struggling to communicate?
18:40In communication,
18:42there are a lot of people who try to change what's wrong with the other person.
18:47It's easier to correct the way you communicate,
18:50the way you convey, and the way you perceive things.
18:54And as a premise,
18:56it's important not to ask too much of the other person
19:00when you're in a relationship.
19:03Also, it's very important to be able to
19:06properly express your feelings and boundaries in language.
19:11That's what I want to tell them.
19:14Yoshino-kun will give you a message.
19:16The movie will be released on January 31st.
19:20The true nature of the classmates who are exposed to the story of a certain student,
19:24and the passion they have for the story,
19:27please enjoy the movie.
19:32Next time, it's a night to think about women's crisis management.
19:36I was on the main train, and the train opened.
19:40I didn't get off, but the moment he got off,
19:43he grabbed my chest.
19:45Look forward to it.