On today's episode of Scran we are celebrating Robert Burns. Rosalind chats to a variety of people about Burns night and the associated impending merriment. First up is Graham Mains of The Big Burns Supper. Graham is at the heart of the celebrations in Dumfries that have been running for 13 years. Rosalind learns more about the organisers approach to the festival and their main aim of being inclusive so as many people as possible can share in the celebrations of this Scottish cultural icon.
When Scran visited The Globe Inn in Dumfries last summer we met the wonderful raconteur and entertainer Kathleen Cronie of Mostly Ghostly. We asked Kathleen back on the podcast to share her love of Burns and to provide us with that all important recitation, in honour of his poetry. This is not to be missed.
Finally, chef Paul Wedgewood joined Rosalind to share his rather adventurous experiences of Burns night and suggestions for alternatives that might be of interest if you're over the standard of haggis, neeps and tatties.
When Scran visited The Globe Inn in Dumfries last summer we met the wonderful raconteur and entertainer Kathleen Cronie of Mostly Ghostly. We asked Kathleen back on the podcast to share her love of Burns and to provide us with that all important recitation, in honour of his poetry. This is not to be missed.
Finally, chef Paul Wedgewood joined Rosalind to share his rather adventurous experiences of Burns night and suggestions for alternatives that might be of interest if you're over the standard of haggis, neeps and tatties.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Scran. On this episode, we are celebrating all things Burns ahead
00:07of Burns Night, including haggis, poetry, as well as a very unusual Burns supper. I'm
00:13now joined by Kathleen Crony, who, if you've listened to our previous episode recorded
00:17at the Globe Inn in Dumfries, you may remember from our wonderful tour. Hi, Kathleen, how
00:22are you?
00:23Hello, how are you?
00:24Good, thank you.
00:25It's good to see you again.
00:26You too. So we did say we'd have you back and here we are in January, it's coming up
00:32for Burns Night and this is obviously one of your specialities. So for anyone that didn't
00:41really listen to our episode before or would like to catch up with that, could you just
00:44give me a little introduction to who you are and what you do?
00:47Yes, certainly. I'm Kathleen Crony, I'm the resident storyteller and tour guide at the
00:52Globe Inn in Dumfries and I'm also the founder of Mostly Ghostly. And we present a range
00:59of ghost and local history tours in Dumfries and Galloway. But my role very much in relation
01:05to Burns is centred on the Globe, welcoming people from far and wide to come and learn
01:11about Burns and to help connect people to that incredible history and the building itself,
01:17which is just remarkable, over 400 years old.
01:23And Burns has got this huge lasting legacy and obviously Burns Night is the night where
01:28most people, you know, sit down, have hagsnakes and tatties and like celebrate. But what was
01:33his sort of tie to Dumfries for anyone that doesn't know?
01:38Well he's got very strong links to Dumfries. In fact, much of the built heritage that remains
01:43Burns would have been familiar with during his time. And, you know, he initially moved
01:48to this area to Ellisland Farm, which is about six miles north of Dumfries. And then he moved
01:53to the town in 1791, initially to his home in Bank Street, or the Stinking Vennel as
02:00it was known then, which is not the most appealing name. But he moved eventually to his house,
02:06which we now know as Burns House, very close to the church where he worshipped at St Michael's.
02:12He frequented the Globe regularly during his visits when he was working with the excise.
02:18And he would travel to Dumfries, he would sometimes spend the night there. But once
02:22he'd actually moved to the town, he would come regularly to the Globe. It was like a
02:26sort of nightly ritual where he would present the news to an assembled gathering from his
02:31chair.
02:33And why do you think that Burns has such this lasting legacy? Because obviously the, you
02:38know, if you're a creative and you become famous through your art, that will like maybe
02:42last hopefully through the years. But this, we're talking like a long, long time that
02:46Burns has been, you know, very famous in Scotland and abroad.
02:50Yes, I mean, his legacy is timeless. It's enduring. The themes are every bit as relevant.
02:58In fact, some maybe even more so in today's world. And it's these kind of enduring themes
03:05of love and loss and nature and war and all the things that are hugely affecting in our
03:12day to day lives. And just that kind of character study of everyday people as well and immortalising
03:19them too, which inspires us to research the past and research our local history and learn
03:25more about the people who lived in this area and further afield.
03:31I think he appeals to such a wide range of people too and many folk have perhaps an unusual
03:37relationship with Burns in the sense that they're not sure how they feel about him because
03:41he was a man of so many contrasts. But I think that no one can deny his remarkable talent
03:48and his ability to connect with others and his kind of captivating magnetic appeal to
03:55so many. And it just transcends the ages.
03:58And just for anyone that doesn't know, obviously, Burns Supper, haggis, neeps, tatties, a wee
04:03dram of whiskey. How is that meal on that day become Burns Supper?
04:10I mean, I just think it's over the years that's really evolved, hasn't it? It's become such
04:15an important tradition. There's all the different speeches and toasts and it's a real celebration.
04:23And, you know, it started so, so many years ago. And to think that there'll be Burns Suppers
04:28being held up and down the country, you know, over the coming weeks and probably into February,
04:33giving people a chance to catch up on them all. I've been invited to one myself, which
04:38I'm really looking forward to. But I think it's important because people come together
04:42to celebrate not just a man and his poetry, but to come together and just enjoy stories,
04:48enjoy conversation, good food. And I think it's a very special time of year. I'm super
04:54excited about it, as you can probably tell.
04:57I mean, it's a good, it's a good sort of month after Christmas, something to look forward
05:01to, get together with friends, have more food. Don't do dry January.
05:05No, no, maybe that's not such a good idea if you're going to a Burns Supper, certainly.
05:10But yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Given that we still have quite dark days,
05:14I think having something in the sort of lull after Christmas and New Year, when people
05:19can feel a little bit of kilter, I think it's really nice because it's like a shining beacon
05:24sort of, you know, later in that month that draws people together and encourages people
05:29to get out and do things and experience history, culture, and above all, I think, friendship.
05:36And I think we talked about this a lot before, but in school, we all had to learn a Burns
05:41poem and it became, well, for most people, I think it was a bit of a chore. Have you
05:46found over the years, given your work, that it's less of a chore and more of an enjoyment
05:50to sort of learn and look at these things again?
05:53I think it is. I think I've gained a different appreciation to Burns. The more that I've
06:00discovered about him, and you know, I'm by no means an expert, I'm just a passionate
06:04person about local history and people and I love exploring these stories. And the more
06:11I read about him, the more of his poetry I read, I feel that I appreciate it. I've got
06:16different insights into it. Had I read it at sort of 15 year old, it might not have
06:20meant the same to me. And I think, you know, as your own life evolves and changes, there's
06:25lots of things that you can, you can relate to in Burns's work. And since I've been at
06:32the Globe every day, there are more and more questions, you know, guests ask me questions,
06:36I have my own. I've got a great list of things that I'd love to find out about and things
06:41I want to ask about Burns and learn about. And I think it's, his story is just absolutely
06:47fascinating. It's a compelling tale in itself.
06:50From what you've learned over the years, what is a kind of surprising or a fact that you
06:55people may not know about Burns?
06:57I mean, most people are familiar with the fact that he was, you know, fond of the lassies,
07:04let's see. And he had numerous relationships out with his marriage and within it. But one
07:11of the things that really stands out for me, and it's kind of, it very much relates to
07:15his wife, Jean Armour as well. And I have such immense respect for Jean Armour and always
07:20feel that her immortal memory is every bit as important. And that Jean actually, one
07:26of the facts that surprises a lot of our guests when I'm in the Globe talking about Burns
07:32and Jean's life, is that Jean actually adopted one of Burns's children. And this child was
07:40conceived at the Globe Inn in Dumfries when both she and Burns were together. They were
07:45married, they were living at Ellisland, and the baby was born to Anna Park, who was the
07:49niece of the landlady. And people are kind of wide eyed at that, you know, they were
07:57familiar maybe with his reputation. But it really surprises them to learn in some ways
08:02that Jean, you know, she was so selfless, she was so tolerant, she was such a strong
08:07person. She stood by him through thick and thin. There's no question that he has a lot,
08:13you know, to be very grateful to Jean for. And that she took on this wee girl and gave
08:19her love and kindness. And in spite of perhaps some of the colourful conversations and gossip
08:27there would have been at the time, that didn't matter. There was a job to be done, there
08:31was a child that needed a mother. And, you know, this lady certainly stands out. And
08:38she brought a lot of joy to that wee girl's life. So to me, that is one that really
08:43touches me and surprised me when I first heard about it. And I've seen the effect that
08:48has on guests. So I just wanted to mention that because it does connect so strongly with
08:53Jean.
08:54Yeah, I mean, it's all, you know, we hear all about Robert Burns and the celebration of
08:58his life quite rightly, but there was a lot of women in his life. So it's nice to know
09:01that, you know, that's still being talked about to this day.
09:05I think it's very important to remember the women in his life and the inspiration that
09:09they gave him too. Because, you know, he wrote The Gouden Locks of Anna following his relationship
09:15with Anna Park. And, you know, Burns considered that to be his most beautiful love song. And
09:21although we may have different views about how that song came into being, there's no
09:26question that his words were tender, heartfelt and passionate.
09:32And just before we talk a little bit more about poetry, is there anything special happening
09:37at the Globe for Burns Night? I imagine it's a big night, a big sort of celebration.
09:42Well, this is my first time at the Globe for Burns Night. I'm really excited about it because
09:47it's going to be like Christmas again, really, isn't it? Lots of people coming in and lots
09:52of enthusiasm and excitement and good food and drink. There are two events actually coming
09:57up on the 24th and 25th of January, which is going to be absolutely amazing. And Callum
10:02Watson, a very talented bagpiper, is going to be performing as well. There's lots going
10:06on. And I'm hoping to be guiding lots of people around the Globe and sharing some of the fascinating
10:14stories of Burns and his time there. So I'm really looking forward to this.
10:19You have chosen a Burns poem to recite for us for celebration of Burns Night and this
10:24podcast. Could you tell us a little bit about it?
10:27Yes, it's the minstrel at Llyn Clwydan. Now, Llyn Clwydan Abbey is just about a mile or so up the
10:33River Fae Dumfries and it's a bit of a crumbling ruin today. It's a very romantic and beautiful
10:39ruin, a place that Burns walked to regularly when he was in Dumfries along the River Nith.
10:46And perhaps during his time there, I would imagine his thoughts hark back to the time he
10:53lived at Ellisland and perhaps he missed that beautiful, rural, enchanting landscape.
10:58And I think Llyn Clwydan has got that sense of peace, tranquillity, but also it's quite
11:04ethereal in its nature, a fine medieval building even today.
11:08And he wrote, for example, Cavill Yows to the Nows there and other works too.
11:14So it must have been a very inspiring and perhaps restful place for him.
11:18And the poem that I've chosen, it really evokes a sense of what the Abbey is like and its
11:25surroundings for me. I really liked it.
11:27Yeah, no, it sounds great. So would you be able to recite a wee bit for us?
11:31Yes, I can. I can read that out. I can recite that for you. Is that OK?
11:36Yeah, yeah, go for it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this.
11:42As I stood by yon roofless tower,
11:45Where the waffler scents the dewy air,
11:49Where the hoolet mourns in her ivy bower,
11:52And tells the midnight moon her care,
11:56A lassie all alone was making her moan,
12:00Lamenting oor lads beyond the sea,
12:03In the bloody wars they foe and oor honours gain,
12:07And broken-hearted wee Mondie.
12:11The winds were laid, the air was still,
12:15The stars they shot along the sky,
12:18The tod was howling on the hill,
12:20And the distant echoing glanes reply.
12:24The burn adoon its hazily path
12:27Was rushing by the ruined waugh,
12:30Hasting to join the sweeping nith
12:33Whose roaring seemed to rise and foe.
12:36The call blea north was streaming forth,
12:39Her lights wee hissing eerie din,
12:42A thought the lift they start and shift
12:46Like fortune's favours tint as win.
12:50Now looking over firth and fold,
12:52Her horn the pale-faced Cynthia reared,
12:56When lo, in form of minstrel old,
13:00A stern and stalwart ghaist appeared,
13:04And frae his harpsick strains did flow,
13:07Might roused the slumbering dead to hear,
13:11But o, it was a tale of woe
13:14As ever met a Briton's ear.
13:17He sang with joy his former day,
13:21He weep and wailed his latter times,
13:25But what he said, it was nae play,
13:30I winna venture it in my rhymes.
13:34Thank you very much.
13:35I'm holding a microphone and I would applause,
13:37but thank you.
13:38That was lovely.
13:40And yeah, it's very relevant as well today,
13:45as you say, with the different themes.
13:47So, yeah, thank you for your time again.
13:50It's lovely to see you.
13:51And I hope you have a lovely Burns Night when it comes.
13:55Oh, thanks so much.
13:56It's lovely to see you too.
13:58And thank you very much for inviting me to take part.
14:00It's been a pleasure.
14:04I'm now joined by Graeme Mayne from The Big Burns Supper.
14:07Hi Graeme, how are you?
14:09I'm great.
14:10I'm really great, buzzing up for Burns Night already.
14:13Yeah, I feel like it's something to look forward to after Christmas.
14:16Do you get that?
14:17I've always got that feeling.
14:19I was brought up in Dumfries,
14:21and that was probably something that we did locally here.
14:25I've always got that kind of buzz that there's a build up to Burns Night,
14:29particularly in the west of Scotland.
14:30Do you feel like, so you've kind of grown up with it,
14:32but do you feel like the rest of Scotland and maybe the rest of the world
14:35has kind of caught up with that buzz over the last few years?
14:38Or do you think it's always been something that's been quite massive?
14:42It's a weird one that, innit?
14:43So according to a report in 2009,
14:48nine million people around the world celebrate Burns Night.
14:53And that kind of basically,
14:57I think, says quite a lot about what happens when you leave Scotland.
15:01I don't know if you've ever left.
15:02I went to live in Sligo, of all places in Ireland,
15:05and I bumped into a load of Scots.
15:07And it was kind of a thing.
15:10We did that.
15:10I think a lot of Scots, or those Scots at heart, kind of do that.
15:14And whether that's the same back home, I don't know.
15:17But kind of long story short, the big Burns Supper started
15:20because those same friends kind of came to Dumfries
15:25about 14 years ago, and they were like, oh, it'll be a great crack.
15:28And actually, what we found is there was a lot of Burns Suppers going on,
15:32but they were hidden behind the door.
15:36And you had to have an invite,
15:39or you had to know someone in the Burns fraternity.
15:42And not only that, which really, so that's the first thing that struck me.
15:45But the second thing was that everyone was wearing these tuxedos.
15:49So like I recognised the kilts and I really liked it,
15:52but the tuxedo just felt really formal to me.
15:54And I didn't really know where I belonged in that.
15:56So I guess that's where the genesis of the festival really kicked off,
15:59trying to make it accessible to more people.
16:02And how long has it been going for now?
16:07This is its 13th year.
16:09First kicked off in 2012 was the first big Burns Supper.
16:14It started off as a three day experience, and then it's just kind of
16:18literally snowballed from there.
16:20And now it's a three week experience.
16:22We basically opened with a carnival
16:26and that's still true to who we are.
16:28We want to really... Burns is quite hard to engage people in.
16:33So we've always been aware that the younger generation,
16:36if you just go into their school and ask them to recite Tamashanta,
16:39they can see through it.
16:41So we do lots of creativity with them.
16:43And we've been building an awareness with them to get to know us
16:47creatively, to try to see Burns as a creative
16:50rather than something that you have to preserve and be scared of.
16:53So you've mentioned the festival and the carnival and stuff
16:57and how long it goes on.
16:58But what exactly is the Big Burns Supper like today?
17:02So as in, when does it kick off this month and what can people expect from it?
17:06Yeah, so it kicks off on the 17th of January
17:10and it runs until the 2nd of February.
17:13The Big Burns Supper takes place all across different venues in Dumfries.
17:16We start with a massive street carnival and a project called Northern Lights.
17:21And that's really about us taking empty shops.
17:24So Dumfries High Street is very much like everywhere else at the moment.
17:28There's lots of abandoned shops.
17:29So we've created a kind of open trail where people can come in
17:33and experience the festival.
17:35It's all free.
17:36It's all really targeted towards people who,
17:39you know, we know that people don't have a lot of money after Christmas.
17:41Like you were saying, after Christmas, you look forward to it.
17:44So there's loads of kind of free things for people, street markets.
17:47There's loads of brilliant produce from across the region
17:52that we're kind of showcasing, as well as there being loads of
17:55loads of drink from across the region.
17:57That's in a wee sort of food village just outside our building.
18:02And then the next weekend, it becomes a bit more Burns-like for us, I feel like.
18:06So the biggest event that we stage is our Burns Night Live.
18:09That's hosted by Michelle McManus and it includes Eddie Reader
18:14and a whole load of local people.
18:16So we're basically serving up 500 Burns suppers
18:20at the same time as
18:23broadcasting free to the world on our Facebook channel.
18:27Now, when we did this with Janie Godley in 2021,
18:30we had just under half a million viewers who tuned in.
18:33Now, granted, they were all hard up on lockdown and getting bored of each other
18:39and they were all at home kind of watching it.
18:41But it's a really brilliant way for us to showcase Dumfries
18:46Dumfries is the kind of home of Burns Night, if you like.
18:49And then we've got loads of different things happening.
18:51So there's there's more Burns suppers happening in Dumfries and Galloway
18:54than anywhere else on the planet.
18:56So there's like there's Burns suppers in Stranraer, there's Burns suppers in Langham.
19:00There's stuff for young people, there's stuff for kids and families.
19:02At our festival, we always try and really stay true to the tenets
19:07of what we believe in, which is to try and make it accessible.
19:10So we've got loads of loads of fun things like there's a haggis tour
19:13on the High Street, there's a haggis tour.
19:15But also we've got a big Burns supper on the bus, which is basically
19:18a big, massive double-decker bus and it goes round all the Burns sites.
19:22So we're very lucky in Dumfries that Burns is buried here and they always farm.
19:25So we take the kids and the families round the Burns sites,
19:28but at the same time, they get a Burns supper and they get a caley on the bus as well.
19:32So it's quite mad.
19:33And then, of course, we've got an underwater Burns supper for the first time as well,
19:37which is just really trying to give people a different experience of Burns Night.
19:41So I'm going to come back to the underwater thing,
19:43because that's that is one of the things we're quite intrigued by.
19:46But the logistics of all the food.
19:48So obviously Burns, when people think of Burns Night, they think of haggis,
19:51neeps and tatties.
19:52And you're right, when I lived abroad, that was, you know,
19:55we sat down with my friends and that's what we did.
19:58And so what are the logistics of getting that many Burns suppers
20:01organised for the festival?
20:02Is it is it quite daunting?
20:06It is really, actually.
20:08Yeah, I don't know if that's more daunting for us than staging events
20:12or producing shows.
20:14You know, we are sort of, we work in the live sector.
20:17So I suppose for us putting on a show with loads of moving parts,
20:20it's quite difficult.
20:21But I guess the trick is for us to make sure that food is served hot,
20:26make sure it's local as well, you know, because we've got and also
20:30I think we have to be very careful.
20:32There's so many brilliant haggis producers locally.
20:34And they're really, they really are quite.
20:36We always get award winners in Dumfries.
20:38It may be the Burns connection.
20:41What we've really tried to do is to showcase our incredible food source
20:45here and tell the story behind that, as well as kind of getting 500.
20:50But basically the 500 Burns suppers is one of the tightest operations
20:55that we manage as the food is cooked off site.
20:59It's then delivered to the site and then effectively we set up this army
21:03and effectively those 500 Burns suppers will be delivered
21:08in about 12 minutes flat and straight to the table.
21:13Because because we're going live at seven o'clock.
21:15So there's yeah.
21:16And that's good as well, because we we are a sort of platform
21:20for for lots of community Burns suppers.
21:22And what I really like about that is when they're
21:24they come to us for inspiration about how they could, you know, energize people.
21:28And it's great that we that we go through what they go through
21:31because they have those problems as well.
21:32Like, how will I get the food and and what do you serve?
21:36And the good thing about Burns suppers is it's quite light.
21:39Do you know what I mean?
21:39It's well, the one that we do, we do kind of Burns suppers
21:43and rather than doing a starter, we do cheese boards at the end.
21:48Just because I think people like to sort of maybe it's
21:51maybe it's balancing it with the whiskey.
21:53We are serving Lockley whiskey this year, which is part of the distillery.
21:58It's actually the place where Robbie Burns was born.
22:01And so we've been very careful to try and find cheeses
22:04that balance that.
22:06And I think there's this thing at the end of a Burns supper
22:08where once you've had the wheat or haggis, then we'll do the crannachan.
22:11And actually, cheese board, I think is quite nice
22:14because people might be sitting with that for a good hour and a half.
22:17So it's almost it's quite sort of French that, isn't it?
22:19When you think about that kind of charcuterie idea that it doesn't leave the table.
22:24And sometimes people might just be breaking
22:26bits of oat cake and dipping it into chutneys and stuff
22:28and nibbling away while the speeches and stuff are going on.
22:32It's always good to graze.
22:34Aye. Aye.
22:36Well, it's something about whiskey as well, because a lot of people drink whiskey
22:39on Burns night or have a dram when the haggis comes in
22:42when they wouldn't ordinarily be whiskey drinkers,
22:44or that might not be their drink of choice.
22:47So there's something about setting the palate down once you've had that whiskey.
22:52I don't know.
22:53Your palate sort of searches for something quite savory to balance it, maybe.
22:57And it depends if you're bold enough to have the whiskey as a dram just straight.
23:01Or whether you break it down with the water.
23:03I know there's there's whiskey puritans here.
23:05My grandpa always said, break it with a touch of water.
23:08The water of life, he would say, Ishka.
23:11A wee dad of water and it just just kind of splits the whiskey up for you.
23:14But I've offended half of Scotland by that statement.
23:18No, not anymore. You can drink it.
23:19I mean, I put coke in it sometimes, so it's fine.
23:23I love a wee coke.
23:28So to go back to the underwater Burns supper,
23:30can you tell us what that is and what it entails?
23:35Yeah, so we're always trying to think about amazing ways
23:39that we can get people to think about the Burns supper in itself.
23:42So we've become a specialist, I think, in forming Burns suppers, you know.
23:47We've definitely become a specialist in trying to break down the form,
23:50you know, like trying to say to people, don't just follow the kind of Masonic
23:57legacy that we're left with, you know, that you have to toast this here,
24:00you have to toast that there.
24:02So the underwater Burns supper experience is it's for you and a pal
24:05or you and your partner or you and your mum and your dad, whatever.
24:09It's for two people.
24:10You go to the local swimming pool.
24:11When you get there, they don you with a kilt.
24:14So all you need to do is go with your your swimming trunks or your costume.
24:17You get a kilt when you get there, they wrap it around you.
24:20And the Burns supper is basically happening in a stream to your ears.
24:26So so basically there's a there's a there's a radio frequency
24:30that we're broadcasting the supper from.
24:32And as you swim under the water, you basically get this Burns supper experience.
24:37But within that, we've tried to, we were thinking,
24:40well, how do we make that quite different from, you know,
24:44like a Burns, a fast paced Burns supper?
24:46So it's actually we've created a really holistic, quite a meditative experience.
24:51Now, it's sold out already.
24:52We're hoping to we can we can increase capacity to let people experience it.
24:56But as you go, if you imagine the environment we're under is under the water.
25:00So there's times that you're able to swim under at the same time
25:04and the feed's constant.
25:05And what we realized is that people are like giving it laps.
25:09The last thing we need to do is keep them revved up.
25:11So it's quite meditative, quite kind of soothing.
25:14And by the end of it, we explore some of the ideas
25:18that are really about a Burns supper, about feeling positive, about breathing,
25:22about about, you know, kind of breath control.
25:25And there's some bits in it where we ask
25:28if you can kind of just try and get your breathing regulated first.
25:31And in curating that, we worked with artists that we've been working with
25:35previously, and I think what we wanted to do was put the best
25:40the best of Big Burns supper into that experience.
25:43But it's all very abridged.
25:45It's not long pieces.
25:46And that's something that we are quite good at.
25:48We don't tend to go with a very long Burns pieces.
25:51We tend to just give it nice wee short bursts, because actually
25:55sometimes you can get, you sort of lose the meaning.
25:58So once you've done all that and you've had the experience
26:00that last 30 minutes, because it's quite tiring to swim in,
26:03then when you come out of the pool, we dry you down and then you get a little box.
26:06Inside the box is a haggis pie,
26:11which is the haggis, the neeps and the tatties.
26:13It's made by the Little Bakery locally.
26:15It's award winning pies.
26:17You get a wee bottle of whiskey and a wee poem and a wee gift pack.
26:21And you're sort of left for the rest of the day.
26:23And you're sort of mesmerized by this experience.
26:25I've tried it already and it's so soothing.
26:28It surprised me how soothing we've made it.
26:30You know, it's not.
26:32You should finish it.
26:33Be like, what just happened to me?
26:39And do you find that people are, I mean, obviously, because this is sold out,
26:42people are looking for a bit more of an unusual experience
26:45when it comes to Burns Night.
26:46Like you say, they're maybe not really looking for the black tie
26:50proper sit down formal meal anymore.
26:54I mean, that's not just true to us.
26:55You know, I think the whole of Scotland's music scene
26:57has just rocketed in the last maybe 10, 15 years where,
27:01you know, our trad music is much more contemporized.
27:04You've got incredible bands on the scene like Scary Vore and the Peat Bog Fairies.
27:08They sort of led that.
27:09But then like TALISK and all that.
27:11And we've we've always done that at the centre of our Burns experience
27:15has been a show called Le Haggis.
27:17And we basically brought 600 members of the audience
27:20and set them in the round.
27:22And we put the Burns supper in the round for them.
27:26But we mixed it with loads of different experiences.
27:30We'd have aerial artists flying through the air.
27:32We just kept playing with the form, really, until we started to look around
27:38and we started to clock that the audience were getting younger.
27:41The audience were getting a bit cooler.
27:42They were wearing a touch of tarant.
27:45They were wearing their own kind of like kind of, you know, gear.
27:48And that for us started to make us realize that over the last decade,
27:52actually, Dumfries and the visitors to our festival
27:55kind of have that expectation that we're going to do something a bit daft.
28:00I mean, just silly things like from the from the word go.
28:03We had, you know, we basically imagined that
28:08Rab had fallen in love with a drag queen.
28:10Her name was Tati.
28:12And that she's basically that she's given birth
28:16to the illegitimate child of.