Today’s most notable creatives join Variety at Sundance for exclusive in-depth conversations across various entertainment mediums, presented by Audible.
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00:00Yeah, I had to settle for 15 mil for this one, which is totally fine.
00:04It's totally fine.
00:17Congratulations, number one, on getting Distribution.
00:19Big part of Sundance, early, early sale.
00:22Can I ask quickly, do people lean back or do they lean forward more?
00:26What's the real thing?
00:28I mean, actors.
00:30What do you think?
00:31Can we even?
00:32You need your moment before so that you're on the couch.
00:35Okay, this is good.
00:36As long as you're comfortable.
00:37This will be okay.
00:38Own your space.
00:39Okay, I'm owning it.
00:40I would love to start with Amalia and just ask, this conceit, I think, is so relevant
00:45for scarier reasons and then also for amazing narrative reasons, and just how did this come
00:49to you?
00:50Well, some people from my family were getting affected by the spraying of this sort of glyphosate
00:57in rural Argentina, and that was in the back of my mind for a few years while I was working
01:03on El Planeta, actually.
01:06And I knew I wanted to do something about it, but I wasn't sure what.
01:11And then this idea sort of crystallized a few years later, where the way to bring this
01:18story to people was through this very unserious crew of hipster journalists from this New
01:26York media company, and as a way to make it more playful.
01:33And yes, that's sort of how it came about.
01:35That's amazing.
01:36It's so funny, too, because I think in our culture right now, especially in a post-streaming
01:41world, documentaries have become such a more explosive water cooler thing.
01:45And I think that you can see, in some cases, especially how that kind of run amok, how
01:50fast people put them together, how salacious they sometimes need to be to sell, especially
01:54at the expense of natural beauty, other people's really genuine stories.
01:59So I just think it's a really cool concept.
02:00So for the actors, who did you base these characters on?
02:06I'll start since I'm in the far stage left.
02:10I was told by Amalia to basically play a dove who was from American Apparel, who was kind
02:19of canceled, I guess, for his shenanigans.
02:22So she goes, watch a bunch of interviews with him.
02:24I just want you to be sort of a loquacious, fast-talking, slick guy.
02:28And so that was really it for me.
02:30That's all I needed to see was a couple of interviews with him.
02:32And then I just made it my own version.
02:34And I had seen El Planeta, and I was really excited to work with her.
02:38And this was just one of those cool ones.
02:41I was on board before I even read the script.
02:44Chloe said that earlier.
02:45I was the same.
02:46I just wanted to work with her.
02:47And we just had a lot of fun.
02:49It was a great group of people.
02:50Everything in Argentina was amazing.
02:53And I had a blast.
02:56So my character was kind of, Amalia had written a lot of it based on me.
03:02So there wasn't a lot of external work to be done.
03:06But she did tell me to watch Je T'aime Moi Non Plus by Serge Gainsbourg, Joe D'Alessandro's
03:14character as a reference point for Justin.
03:17So that was fun to watch.
03:18It was a good movie.
03:19Absolutely.
03:20Who did I use?
03:24Well I guess my character was kind of written for me as well.
03:27As it should have been.
03:29I don't know so much about my process.
03:33I think more or less it was kind of giving over to the unconventional style.
03:38I mean I've done a lot of unconventional films with unconventional filmmakers.
03:43But this movie was very loosey-goosey.
03:46And I was kind of like, are we getting the coverage?
03:48Are we like, everybody's just improvising.
03:49Are we getting the story?
03:50And I really feel like I had to let my guard down and give myself over to the experience.
03:57That was like the real work for me was actually while we were working.
04:03Which was kind of surprising in a way.
04:05But Alex brought so much spontaneity and so much joy.
04:09The boys were so playful.
04:10They were just going for it.
04:12And I felt like I didn't know where within my character to find that joy to contribute
04:17to what was happening in the scenes.
04:19So I was finding it pretty challenging to find my footing when we first started shooting.
04:24Because she's kind of a sourpuss.
04:27But I tried to bring some moments of levity when we have this sweet moment together and
04:31stuff.
04:32And just trying to have the confidence to infuse more different colors within the performance.
04:38I just, really quick follow up.
04:40It's so interesting because I think that many people would say your career is defined by
04:43these loosey-goosey artistic things.
04:45But for the past couple of years, man, you've been like just between Capote, which was incredible.
04:51And then the Menendez brothers.
04:54Do you find yourself having to sort of decide more between like, okay, I'm going to go do
04:57this big corporate thing and then make space for something amazing?
05:00No, I mean I have another film here, Utopia, by Hayley Gates.
05:05And I had this Bonjour Tristesse film that came out.
05:07So I try and really make time especially for young filmmakers, female filmmakers, and just
05:15people that I find interesting and that I think I believe in, you know, their vision.
05:20Also worked with Luca Guadagnino on his next feature with Julia Roberts.
05:24Wait, so excited for that, by the way.
05:27But it's, I mean, it's nice to make money with the big.
05:32And it's nice to also, yeah, you know, get to experiment and have fun.
05:36You all deserve paycheck roles.
05:37So let's just.
05:39Yeah, I had to settle for 15 mil for this one, which is totally fine.
05:43Totally fine.
05:45Yeah.
05:46Well, tell me a little about who you based your character off of.
05:48And it's all the spontaneity.
05:49Where did you, I mean, you are, first of all, no stranger to this festival and no stranger
05:53to like borderline the genre.
05:55So I feel like you probably just have so much in your toolbox.
05:57Oh, that's interesting.
05:59I felt like a stranger to the genre completely, sort of, but in a great way.
06:04I mean, I did base it off this guy that Amalia set me up with and didn't tell me that the
06:09character was based on him until I was in his house.
06:13And he was saying things that I say in the script.
06:16And he, at one point, got teary eyed and started microdosing mushrooms.
06:21And I thought, I think this is my character.
06:23Then I just stole all his shit.
06:26I took all his clothes and everything.
06:29And the movie was, you know, very important for me because it honestly came from the fact
06:33that I, my therapist had been sort of tired of hearing about me doing this TV show I'd
06:40done for about a year that was very dark and very serious.
06:45And he was like, hey, you need to do something funny.
06:48You gotta do something fun.
06:50And then it was just sort of serendipitous that this came along.
06:53And it felt like, it didn't just feel funny and fun.
06:57It felt like sort of an exorcism of maybe parts of myself that are, I try to keep locked
07:04up in, you know, a secret room.
07:06And this movie was about just really humiliating myself on every level.
07:11Just fundamentally, truly embarrassing myself in a way that I've never done before.
07:21And so, for that, it was, I was scared because I realized, like, you know, you can have no
07:26vanity when you are saying the things that you're saying and, you know, I get a stomach
07:32bug and, I mean, it was like the most embarrassing thing in the world.
07:37And I had my little skinny legs and these tight shorts.
07:39It was like, you know, I was very vulnerable.
07:41So, I was lucky to be in the company of some of the people that I consider the most risk-taking
07:48people in the world.
07:49And Molly, when I saw her first movie, if anything, it is the most bold, like, risk-taking
07:58movie that I've seen in a long time.
07:59And it's her and her mom and it's funny and it's odd and I felt that from the script that
08:06she, you know, just has this very unique pointed vision that I needed in my life then and I
08:14think more people need because I think satire is sort of a dying breed of movie.
08:19And I think this movie runs straight at the satire of it.
08:24And then just the obvious thing is Chloe has been one of the true inspirations.
08:30You're going to listen and you're going to like it.
08:32Wait, I need to say something.
08:33You're going to like it.
08:34I need to backtrack about the paychecks because Brian Murphy and Liz Jobs and Gus Van Zandt
08:39are both visionaries.
08:40And like they, I feel like most of my TV work and I balance between the two have been with
08:45real strong creatives, you know, that are real like showrunners, that it's their show.
08:49I mean, from like Portlandia to, you know, every show that I've ever done, which yes,
08:55you get a paycheck.
08:58But it's always been with really like, you know, strong showrunners.
09:01A tour meeting.
09:02Exactly.
09:03Sorry, go on Alex.
09:04That's cool.
09:05It's right in the middle of my description.
09:06What was the show you were doing?
09:08I was playing Leonard Cohen for, I prepared for about a year and then I shot it for about
09:12a year.
09:13I was lucky to be in the Quiet Place film and that was in the middle of it.
09:16But you know, it took a lot.
09:19That was like, that was very painstaking and I wanted to get it right and the anxiety I
09:23felt to deliver for someone that I've worshipped since I was young and Amalia is a big Leonard
09:29Cohen fan.
09:30You know, I had to really do my research and sort of put my life aside for whatever, almost
09:36two years.
09:37So that was really tough.
09:38I really needed, and it was right after the show and I know I would have sunk into a deep
09:43depression had it finished because it was so mind blowing.
09:46And then to do this movie where it's just the opposite.
09:50There's just no, I felt like I loved this character but I didn't respect him one iota.
09:57And I loved that.
09:58And I felt it'd be a relief.
09:59But back to Chloe.
10:00Are you ready to interrupt me?
10:04I felt-
10:05Just because it's a trade magazine.
10:06I don't want to offend anyone.
10:07Which I tend to do.
10:08Which is true.
10:09That's a good point.
10:10But you're not going to offend anyone.
10:13But I'll just say it and I'll make it quick is that, well first of all, Simon and Red
10:18Rocket and I grew up with Dirt Nasty and I was already a big fan of him but Chloe was
10:22attached when I signed on to the movie.
10:26And you know, I've grown up having a few people as my north stars of what's cool and what
10:35being an artist is.
10:38And the thing about Chloe is when you do too much sort of navel gazing bullshit experimenting,
10:45that is not being an artist.
10:46Chloe goes from, she does everything that is true.
10:49And I've always felt that from her performances from Kids to the amazing show she did with
10:54Luca Guadagnino last year or Menendez.
10:57It's never that she's doing one thing or the other.
10:59It's that it truly feels to me like she's compelled to express herself and it's always
11:05bold, it's always funny, it's always interesting.
11:10American Psycho.
11:11I mean like she's, so I've always looked to her and obviously I was disappointed working
11:16with her.
11:17It's a huge let down.
11:18I was really difficult with him.
11:19I gave him a really hard time.
11:20No, but I will say like you work with a lot of people that you look up to and sometimes
11:27they're very, take themselves very seriously, whatever.
11:30And I will say like acting with Chloe, she is the first one to make fun of herself and
11:36to play ball and you know, I play this like character that I was sort of flailing, you
11:41know, that was the whole character and she just sort of bared with me and so I really
11:46appreciate it and I'm lucky to be in the film with her.
11:50And same with Camila.
11:51So Manji for me was a challenge because I don't speak English so it was an incredible
11:59experience for me personally and I felt comfortable all the time.
12:07I was very scared because it's new people, other country, other culture, so it was amazing
12:15and well, it was very natural work with Alex.
12:20I met him on set so he's very funny so it was very comical.
12:32So it was very natural all the time and I felt very comfortable in all the movie.
12:39And Amalia gave me the freedom.
12:44I feel very freedom to do the Manji character so.
12:50And it would be easy to lean into kitsch with this movie, you know, to lean into the comedy
12:54but I felt like she really made sure that we stayed in the real world, you know, all
13:00these funny things are happening but they're happening in the real world and that, I think
13:03she, you know, it bring me back to life instead of schtick.
13:06If you have to work with anybody for first English language film it should be these two.
13:11Everybody.
13:12You know, while I have you here I just want to say it's really amazing what Sean Baker
13:14has been able to do this year with the Nora and that film really brought up some interesting
13:18discussions I think about intimacy coordinators so I just wanted to ask about your experience.
13:22Did you have one on Red Rocket and what do you sort of think about their role in production?
13:27You know, I understand why they're a thing now obviously, you know, you look back at
13:32movies throughout time until very recently and that was never even a thing.
13:37That term is new.
13:38Some directors like it, some don't.
13:42I don't know if I'm out of pocket for speaking for Sean but I know that he prefers not to
13:45but when we did Red Rocket there was no intimacy coordinator but he was very, very sensitive
13:50to those intimate scenes and how long, like how he framed it, how, you know, it was not,
13:57it was exactly the amount of time that he needed he had us do that so it was very professional.
14:02He knew, since he's the editor, the writer and director and everything else he knew what
14:06he wanted so there was no intimacy coordinator but everybody was fine with that and I guess
14:10that's the main thing, as long as your co-stars were comfortable with it and I was comfortable
14:14with it, it was fine.
14:15So I've yet to run into a situation on, you know, obviously also in Blink Twice there
14:20was a lot of intimate scenes.
14:22There we had an intimacy coordinator, that was a much bigger machine than a little indie
14:26movie.
14:27So it depends, you know, I'm cool with it and I'm cool without depending on the co-star,
14:32you know?
14:33Totally.
14:34Thank you for weighing in.
14:35I know it's a...
14:36Yeah.
14:37Yeah, Blink Twice seems like a much bigger...
14:38Yeah.
14:39A lot of different moving parts so...
14:41So, very natural transition, we are here with Audible so I'm just wondering if anybody's
14:44like a podcast person and does that medium sort of interest you as a storytelling platform?
14:49No.
14:50I did the best...
14:51I love them.
14:52I love podcasts.
14:53I did the one...
14:54I don't like them.
14:55I did the one, Best Man's Ghost Writer, I think, with Glenn Powell and that was really
14:58fun.
14:59I'd never done that before and there was a nice little picture of it outside and I loved
15:03it.
15:04I never listened to him and now I listen to him all the time.
15:06Molly, you should do one.
15:08I don't like podcasts.
15:10I love the radio though.
15:11Oh.
15:12There's only one podcast that I listen to and you must remember this.
15:15Oh, yeah.
15:16Let me listen to the podcast.
15:17Other than that, I like turning the radio on.
15:19Yeah.
15:20I just feel like everyone's got a take on everything.
15:22Yeah.
15:23You know?
15:24If you're charming enough, you can like make it a commodity.
15:27So I'm like, how many times...
15:28How many more podcasts am I going to see on my Instagram feed?
15:30It's definitely flooded, but I do...
15:32Whatever.
15:33Yeah.
15:34Yeah.
15:35Just American life.
15:36Just American life.
15:37Yeah.
15:38I have a theory.
15:39No one talks about this.
15:40I think it's a pun on broadcast because they came out on an iPod, but no one ever says
15:44this.
15:45I think it's podcast.
15:46You're right.
15:47And I put that together so I'm not as smart, I'm not as dumb as I look, but I'm not smart
15:52either.
15:53I think serial.
15:54I'm smart.
15:55In the dark.
15:56There's so many.
15:57Do you like murder?
15:58Sometimes.