A Pembrokeshire politician put Wales’ First Minister on the spot at the Senedd when asking if she agreed with Cabinet Secretary for Finance Mark Drakeford’s recent comments that the country was “over hospitalised”.
Former Labour First Minister Mark Drakeford who was also once Minister for Health and Social Services, recently remarked on a podcast: “If you're asking me, if I had a blank sheet of paper and could just do the things I think needed to be done, we would have fewer hospitals in Wales. We have too many hospitals and too many beds.”
Paul Davies, the Welsh Conservative Senedd Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire, raised the matter at the Senedd, asking First Minister Eluned Morgan if she agreed with the comments.
Her response was: “Let me just be clear that we are not going to be closing hospitals in Wales. What the finance Secretary was alluding to was, if he had a blank piece of paper, we would not be starting from here. And that is the case.
“I think we're absolutely clear, in terms of our strategic health plan, that we want to see a shift back into communities, we want to see far better use of digital, and we're also all aware that there are around 1,000 people in our hospitals every week who are ready to leave but they can't leave because we need that care in the community.
“So, shifting that into the community makes sense. I'm not going to apologise on his behalf, because I support him because he's right to say that shifting resources into the community is what we should be doing,” she continued.
Not letting the matter rest, Mr Davies continued: “First Minister, you recently appeared on Any Questions? and you gave a stark warning that health bosses will not get extra cash for their services if they do not cut waiting lists.
“You went on to say that there needs to be better management by health boards. But First Minister, you can't pass the buck; your party has been running our Welsh NHS for the last 26 years.
“The reality on the ground, and outlined by the Royal College of Physicians, is that the workforce is burned out and the health bosses are not to blame.
“It's clear that you have failed to bring forward the workforce recruitment and retention plan that our Welsh NHS needs. With staff morale at an all-time low, do you think that it was sensible and rational to once again blame health boards, while making the situation even worse by threatening to make real-term cuts to public services?
Mr Davies continued: “As per usual, there's zero accountability from this First Minister and this Welsh Government, who, quite frankly, should be ashamed of their record on the NHS.
“And let me remind the Senedd and the First Minister that, last month, Wales' latest health statistics were released, and they were truly shocking.
“Welsh NHS waiting lists haven't just hit record highs, they've now hit record highs for 10 consecutive months!”
Former Labour First Minister Mark Drakeford who was also once Minister for Health and Social Services, recently remarked on a podcast: “If you're asking me, if I had a blank sheet of paper and could just do the things I think needed to be done, we would have fewer hospitals in Wales. We have too many hospitals and too many beds.”
Paul Davies, the Welsh Conservative Senedd Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire, raised the matter at the Senedd, asking First Minister Eluned Morgan if she agreed with the comments.
Her response was: “Let me just be clear that we are not going to be closing hospitals in Wales. What the finance Secretary was alluding to was, if he had a blank piece of paper, we would not be starting from here. And that is the case.
“I think we're absolutely clear, in terms of our strategic health plan, that we want to see a shift back into communities, we want to see far better use of digital, and we're also all aware that there are around 1,000 people in our hospitals every week who are ready to leave but they can't leave because we need that care in the community.
“So, shifting that into the community makes sense. I'm not going to apologise on his behalf, because I support him because he's right to say that shifting resources into the community is what we should be doing,” she continued.
Not letting the matter rest, Mr Davies continued: “First Minister, you recently appeared on Any Questions? and you gave a stark warning that health bosses will not get extra cash for their services if they do not cut waiting lists.
“You went on to say that there needs to be better management by health boards. But First Minister, you can't pass the buck; your party has been running our Welsh NHS for the last 26 years.
“The reality on the ground, and outlined by the Royal College of Physicians, is that the workforce is burned out and the health bosses are not to blame.
“It's clear that you have failed to bring forward the workforce recruitment and retention plan that our Welsh NHS needs. With staff morale at an all-time low, do you think that it was sensible and rational to once again blame health boards, while making the situation even worse by threatening to make real-term cuts to public services?
Mr Davies continued: “As per usual, there's zero accountability from this First Minister and this Welsh Government, who, quite frankly, should be ashamed of their record on the NHS.
“And let me remind the Senedd and the First Minister that, last month, Wales' latest health statistics were released, and they were truly shocking.
“Welsh NHS waiting lists haven't just hit record highs, they've now hit record highs for 10 consecutive months!”
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NewsTranscript
00:00First Minister, the former First Minister and your Cabinet Secretary for Finance and
00:10Welsh Language recently said, and I quote, ëIf youíre asking me if I had a blank sheet
00:15of paper and could just do the things I think needed to be done, we would have fewer hospitals
00:21in Walesí.
00:22He went on further to say, ëWe have too many hospitals and too many bedsí.
00:27Do you agree with those comments, First Minister?
00:29Let me just be clear that we are not going to be closing hospitals in Wales, and what
00:36the Finance Secretary was alluding to was if he had a blank piece of paper, we would
00:41not be starting from here, and that is the case.
00:44I think we are absolutely clear in terms of our strategic health plan.
00:50We want to see a shift back into communities.
00:53We want to see far better use of digital, and weíre also all aware that there are around
00:591,000 people in our hospitals every week who are ready to leave, but they canít leave
01:05because we need that care in the community.
01:08So, shifting that into the community makes sense.
01:11Iím not going to apologise on his behalf, because I support him, because heís right
01:18to sayóheís right to sayóthat shifting resources into the community is what we should
01:24be doing.
01:25Andrew R.T.
01:26Davies AM.
01:27So, First Minister, youíve just said you want to close more hospitals.
01:29Thatís what youíve just said, because you agree withó
01:33Yvonne Smith AM I think you can carry on with your question,
01:42and Iím sure that the First Minister will want to respond as well.
01:46So, Paul Davies.
01:48Paul Davies AM Because you clearly agree with your Cabinet
01:54Secretary that there should be fewer hospitals.
01:56Now, First Minister, you recently appeared on any questions, and you gave a stark warning
02:07that health bosses will not get extra cash for their services if they do not cut waiting
02:12lists.
02:13You went on to say that there needs to be better management by health boards, but, First
02:18Minister, you canít pass the buck.
02:20Your party has been running our Welsh NHS for the last 26 years, and the reality on
02:26the ground, and outlined by the Royal College of Physicians, is that the workforce is burnt
02:32out and the health bosses are not to blame.
02:38Itís clear that you have failed to bring forward the workforce recruitment and retention
02:43plan that our Welsh NHS needs.
02:46With staff morale at an all-time low, do you think it was sensible and rational to once
02:52again blame health boards, while making the situation even worse by threatening to make
02:58real-term cuts to public services?
03:00Yvonne Smith AM Iíll tell you what will be worse, Paul.
03:05Well, first of all, it would be good if you just withdrew the fact that I was very clear
03:10we are not closing hospitals in Wales.
03:12I could not have been clearer, and I am saying it again.
03:18I tell you the other thing is that weíre just about to be discussing this afternoon
03:22a Budget that is suggesting weíre going to put £600 million of additional funding next
03:28year directly into the NHS, and youíre not going to be supporting that.
03:32So, donít you come running to me telling me that we should be putting more money into
03:37the NHS and trying to cut waiting lists when youíre not going to vote for it.
03:40I really think that you need to think very seriously about that, and on top of that,
03:45I think it is important to recognise I am quite happyópart of our job is to hold health
03:52boards to account.
03:53That is what the Health Secretary does week after week, month after month, and, yes, I
03:59think it is absolutely legitimate to ask how it is that some consultants do two operations
04:04a day and some do six.
04:08I think thatís a fair question to ask, and we need more transparency on who is doing
04:13what, how effective they are, and managers have a role in that.
04:17They have a role in making sure that the theatres that we have are used to capacity, making
04:22sure that people turn up on time and deliver on time for the people of this country who
04:28are waiting too long.
04:29Yes, letís hold them to account, but we need to make sure that we provide that funding.
04:35What weíve said, and what the Secretary of Health has said, is that you will get
04:39that £50 million extra funding to bring the waiting list down, but if you donít, youíre
04:44not getting it.
04:45Thatís fair enough.
04:46Andrew R.T.
04:47Davies AM Well, Llywydd, as per usual, thereís zero
04:49accountability from this First Minister and this Welsh Governmentóa Government who, quite
04:55frankly, should be ashamed of their record on the NHS.
05:02Let me remind the Senedd, and let me remind the First Minister, that last month Walesís
05:07latest health statistics were released, and they were truly shocking, First Minister.
05:12Welsh NHS waiting lists havenít just hit record highs, theyíve now hit record highs
05:16for 10 consecutive months.
05:19That is truly shocking.
05:22Patient pathways have now reached over 800,000.
05:25Two-year waits that you as Health Minister promised to eliminate in 2023 and 2024 have
05:32to almost 25,000, yet, in England, this figure is 151, despite Englandís population being
05:39around 20 times higher than ours, and itís a factóand itís a factóthat, under successive
05:45Welsh Labour Governments, there has been a reduction in NHS beds of over 4,000.
05:52So, whether you or the Cabinet Secretary accept it or not, there simply arenít enough beds
05:57to cope with demand.
06:00This really is a matter of life and death, because people are dying unnecessarily the
06:04length and breadth of Wales, families are losing loved ones prematurely, and NHS staff
06:09morale is plummeting.
06:11Under Labour, the Welsh NHS is clearly broken.
06:14So, First Minister, youíve previously outlined your commitment to reduce the number of patients
06:21waiting more than two years to 8,000 by the spring.
06:25Do you stand by that promise?
06:27I think itís really important for us to recognise how much is being done by the NHS, day in,
06:37day out.
06:38There are 2 million contacts every month in a population of 3 million people.
06:43That is a huge amount of work being doneó1.6 million people seeing their GP on a monthly
06:51basis.
06:52These are staggering statistics, and the vast majority of people in Wales are getting an
06:57excellent service.
06:59You talk about the waiting listsólet me tell you about waiting lists.
07:04The diagnostic waits in Wales are going down, the therapies are going down, and do you know
07:09what?
07:10They donít even count those in England, theyíre not even counted in the statistics.
07:14So, weíre being far more honest with the public about what is going on in Wales.
07:19When you talk about beds, let me tell you about beds.
07:22When your Government was in power in Westminster, we had significantly more beds per head of
07:29population than they did in England, and when it comes to staff, we now have more staff
07:34than ever before working in the NHSó12,000 people.
07:39If you look at nurses, itís gone up by 14 per cent compared to where it was three years
07:46ago.
07:47So, I do think itís important that people recognise that we are investing hugely in
07:52our NHS, but, yes, we want to see improved efficiency, and Iím not going to apologise
07:58for that.