Video Information: 23.07.2024, Greater Noida
Description:
Acharya Prashant and Dr. Sid Warrier engage in a deep discussion on the Bhagavad Gita, exploring its transformative power and philosophical depth. Acharya Prashant highlights how the Gita is designed to challenge the ego, gradually dissolving false self-identities. He explains that every reading of the Gita feels different because its purpose is to change the reader, making them evolve with time. Using Arjuna’s internal struggle as an example, he illustrates how the Gita dismantles physical and social conditioning, urging self-knowledge over external attachments.
Dr. Warrier draws parallels between Arjuna’s dilemma and modern-day anxiety, emphasizing how the mind’s agitation stems from the ego’s ignorance. They discuss how real self-knowledge eliminates the need for external motivation, making action natural and spontaneous. Acharya Prashant stresses that the Gita is not about prescriptive rules but about realizing one’s true nature, beyond conditioning and imposed identities. The conversation concludes with the idea that true wisdom is about seeing what one is not, leading to liberation from falsehood and enabling one to act freely and authentically.
🎧 Listen to Acharya Prashant on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/2QmVEAAnsNE7Xs0MW0Li8Y?si=09fbcbc7c99c469b
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~
Description:
Acharya Prashant and Dr. Sid Warrier engage in a deep discussion on the Bhagavad Gita, exploring its transformative power and philosophical depth. Acharya Prashant highlights how the Gita is designed to challenge the ego, gradually dissolving false self-identities. He explains that every reading of the Gita feels different because its purpose is to change the reader, making them evolve with time. Using Arjuna’s internal struggle as an example, he illustrates how the Gita dismantles physical and social conditioning, urging self-knowledge over external attachments.
Dr. Warrier draws parallels between Arjuna’s dilemma and modern-day anxiety, emphasizing how the mind’s agitation stems from the ego’s ignorance. They discuss how real self-knowledge eliminates the need for external motivation, making action natural and spontaneous. Acharya Prashant stresses that the Gita is not about prescriptive rules but about realizing one’s true nature, beyond conditioning and imposed identities. The conversation concludes with the idea that true wisdom is about seeing what one is not, leading to liberation from falsehood and enabling one to act freely and authentically.
🎧 Listen to Acharya Prashant on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/2QmVEAAnsNE7Xs0MW0Li8Y?si=09fbcbc7c99c469b
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Arjun is in the middle and on the one side is all the people who rely on him.
00:06Other side is the enemy but they are also his family.
00:10So that's what the entire Bhagavad Gita is devoted to.
00:13Freedom from the conditioning of the body and the conditioning of the mind.
00:20It's not at too many places that Shri Krishna directly exhorts Arjun to fight.
00:27Every time I read the Bhagavad Gita, I would understand it very differently.
00:33If this war happens, then all the Kshatriyas might be killed and then what happens to our women?
00:39How do I kill my own brothers out there?
00:42Gita is about letting Arjun know who he is.
00:46He is kind of accusing Krishna of misleading him.
00:51The best thing was served to Arjun first of all.
00:56That's the Gyan.
00:58Entire wisdom literature is absolutely silent of what you can do, what you cannot do.
01:04So that's what the entire Bhagavad Gita is devoted to.
01:07Freedom from the conditioning of the body and the conditioning of the mind.
01:11The Bhagavad Gita is called the very essence of Upanishads.
01:14You know the world is afraid of death and that's what gives me joy.
01:18I want to die.
01:21Bhagavad Gita has been very close to me.
01:25So when I was a child, my grandmom, she actually knows Sanskrit
01:30and she used to take Gita classes in our native place in Kerala.
01:34So I used to attend Gita classes with her when I was 8, 9.
01:39And after I finished my MBBS, I decided that I have one year to study for my entrance exam.
01:49And I took up reading Bhagavad Gita every Sunday.
01:52Almost as a, you know, I will do this.
01:56God, help me study better.
02:00And my grandmom only took me through that again.
02:04So that was the second time I read it.
02:06And during the pandemic, I read it a third time.
02:10What was very interesting was every time I read the Bhagavad Gita,
02:15I would understand it very differently.
02:21It almost felt like it was a completely new book.
02:27Which makes me wonder that the last time I read it, I was 33.
02:31I am now 36.
02:35I wonder if every 5 years I read it for the rest of my life,
02:39will it always be a different book?
02:43It will be, and the more it changes,
02:47and the more speedily it changes, the better.
02:53Because you see, it's a very special book,
03:00where the words have been addressed to the ego,
03:08to the ego,
03:10with a view to convince itself of its non-existence.
03:20Which means that the very purpose of the book is to change the reader.
03:27Right.
03:29The very purpose of the discourse is to change the reader.
03:36I pick up the book and I think I am somebody.
03:39And if I am honest with the reading,
03:43then the reading will convince me that I am not what I think of myself.
03:50That is the first leg of the...
03:53The second part is the principle
03:59that what I read, what I think,
04:04what I construe as the reality is a function of who I am.
04:12The same words will mean something to you and something else to me.
04:20I mean, very basic words.
04:22Somebody writes here, okay, this is a goat.
04:26This is a goat.
04:28And you might think of it as a pet.
04:30I might think of it as food.
04:33Depends on who you are.
04:35Depends on who I am.
04:37Same words.
04:39Here is a goat.
04:42These words mean very different things to you compared to what they do to me.
04:46Yes.
04:47So if you change,
04:49the meaning of those words will change.
04:51And the very purpose of those words is to change you.
04:56Yes.
04:57So those words exist to change me, change you.
05:01I am talking about the Gita.
05:02Those words exist to change you.
05:04And when you change, the meaning of any words you read...
05:08Will change.
05:09Will change.
05:10Which means that if the Gita is successful upon you,
05:14you will find its meaning evolving.
05:17Therefore, I said that I wish
05:20that the change happens with a greater speed.
05:25That makes sense.
05:26And I will add one more point which is
05:29it is likely that you will open the Gita
05:31at a time when you are
05:33maybe going through some conflict
05:36which means that you are more in your ego
05:39at that point
05:41which means the change would be even more stark.
05:45See, it's like this.
05:49I have some eye condition.
05:52I cannot see properly.
05:56Somebody gives me a particular tube
05:59some ointment or something
06:00or some drops.
06:03Given my eye condition,
06:05can I read what's there on the label?
06:08No.
06:09Or can I read those micro words that are usually there
06:11on such tubes and bottles?
06:13I can't.
06:14But it has been given and for some reason
06:16I decide to apply it.
06:18I do not know what really it is.
06:20Maybe I can read what's there in big and bold.
06:23Beyond that, nothing.
06:25So I have some idea of what it is
06:28and using that idea, I apply it.
06:30When I apply it, what happens?
06:31My eyesight gets better.
06:33And then I can see more of what I have just applied.
06:39And if I can see more of what I have just applied
06:41I can read the instructions there
06:44and next time I apply it in an even better way
06:47and if I apply it in an even better way
06:49then I am able to read the whole thing even better.
06:53So I get into a virtuous cycle.
06:56You see, we are not talking about the tube.
06:58We are talking about the Gita.
07:00But the analogy is perfect
07:02because we are talking of seeing.
07:04We are talking of seeing.
07:08One thing I really liked about the Gita
07:10the last time I read it
07:12was for the first time
07:14I noticed how the first chapter
07:18begins with a conflict.
07:21And the setting of the story
07:23is so beautiful
07:25that Arjun is in the middle.
07:29And on the one side
07:31is all the people
07:33who rely on him.
07:35Other side is the enemy
07:37but they are also his family.
07:39And he is now conflicted
07:41that should he fight, should he not.
07:43And the rest of the book
07:45is about resolving that conflict.
07:47Now in this case
07:50the conflict seems to be a very big one.
07:52War.
07:54But conflict is something
07:56that we go through everyday.
07:58Everyday.
08:00Every minute.
08:02Should I call up my friend or not?
08:04Should I order swiggy or not?
08:06Everything is a conflict.
08:08And I had never noticed it before
08:10but it suddenly felt that
08:12this is a very practical book.
08:14Very practical book.
08:16That it begins with a conflict.
08:19Chapter 1 that you mentioned.
08:21Shri Krishna doesn't utter a single word.
08:27Really? I didn't notice that.
08:29Not a single verse.
08:31And that's what
08:33makes the whole thing so relatable.
08:35Chapter 2 starts with
08:37Shri Krishna.
08:39Even in chapter 2
08:41it's after a few verses
08:43that Shri Krishna
08:45comes in.
08:48Chapter 1 is us.
08:50You and me.
08:52Chapter 1 is there
08:54to bring us into the picture.
08:56Everybody is talking.
08:58Dhritarashtra is talking.
09:00Sanjay is talking.
09:02Duryodhana is talking.
09:04Arjuna is talking.
09:06Shri Krishna is not talking.
09:08Chapter 1 is about us.
09:12That battlefield is our own lives.
09:14People from all different places
09:17and he is going to Bhishma
09:19and saying, you know,
09:21we need to protect him.
09:23He is saying, look at that side.
09:25They appear mightier than us.
09:27Apprehensions, greed,
09:29attachments, everything is there.
09:31And Arjuna
09:33especially.
09:35Very remarkable
09:37is this chapter 1.
09:39It comes up with two things.
09:41One,
09:43they are
09:45my
09:47friend's kin.
09:49How do I fight them?
09:51They are related to me
09:53by blood.
09:55That's physical conditioning.
09:57Even animals have that.
09:59They usually don't want to attack
10:01their own pack, their own tribe.
10:05Second thing that Arjuna talks of
10:09is social conditioning.
10:13If this war happens,
10:15then all the Kshatriyas
10:17might be killed and then
10:19what happens to our women?
10:21Probably the women will
10:23go to
10:25those who do not belong to
10:27our varna or caste
10:29and then what will happen?
10:31Arjuna
10:33goes on
10:35explaining.
10:37He says, you know,
10:39the kids that will be born out of
10:42illicit relationships,
10:44they will not be qualified
10:46to offer the right
10:48rituals to our dead ancestors
10:50and then
10:52their souls will
10:54suffer in various kinds of hells.
10:58All this is
11:00religious dogma.
11:02All this is religious dogma.
11:04Social conditioning.
11:06Arjuna has heard of all these things from somewhere.
11:08They are not coming from the body.
11:11First of all, it has come to Arjuna
11:13from the society.
11:15It is not even arising from the body.
11:17You know, that there are
11:19higher castes and lower castes
11:21and that there are souls somewhere
11:23in the sky and that if you
11:25offer the right kind of rituals,
11:27then those souls are appeased.
11:29So that's social conditioning.
11:31That's religious dogma.
11:33So two kinds of things
11:35Arjuna is suffering from right
11:37in the first chapter.
11:40How do I kill
11:42my own brothers out there?
11:44That is physical conditioning.
11:46The second is social conditioning.
11:48Higher caste, lower caste and the status of
11:50women. You know, they are our women.
11:52How do we let our women
11:54go to the other side?
11:56And what about the kids that will be born?
11:58All kinds of...
12:00That sets the stage
12:02for what's going to come now.
12:04What is going to come now
12:06is a demolition of
12:09physical and social conditioning.
12:11I call it
12:13freedom from
12:15vritti and sanskriti.
12:17Vritti as in
12:19the physical tendencies.
12:21Sanskriti as in the social culture.
12:23And that's what
12:25Krishna goes on
12:27to very successfully deconstruct.
12:29That's beautiful.
12:31So that's what the entire
12:33Bhagavad Gita is devoted to.
12:35Freedom from the
12:37conditioning of the body and the
12:39conditioning of the mind.
12:41And it's
12:43not at too many places
12:45that Shri Krishna directly
12:47exhorts Arjun to fight.
12:49That happens only
12:51rarely.
12:55Gita is about letting
12:57Arjun know who he is.
12:59In a very liberal way,
13:01Krishna says, if you realize
13:03who you are, then you
13:05will know what to do.
13:07I do not need to instruct
13:09you. I do not need to command you
13:13or school you.
13:15That's for kids.
13:17So Arjun
13:19is not even
13:21being motivated,
13:23let alone being instructed.
13:27He's being illuminated.
13:29And that illumination
13:31enables him to
13:33do what he must.
13:35I had this thought
13:37that because of that conflict,
13:39Arjun is
13:41going through an anxiety
13:43attack.
13:45And there is a phrase that
13:47the hair on his
13:49skin is standing,
13:51his mouth has gone dry.
13:53Typical symptoms of an anxiety
13:55attack.
13:57Shivering, weakness,
13:59limbs are weak.
14:01Full sympathetic
14:03crisis.
14:05His adrenal gland is really active.
14:07Cortisol levels have gone up.
14:09He is now in that state of mind.
14:11He is panicking.
14:13Because of that, he is
14:15catastrophizing.
14:17He is only imagining
14:19worst case scenarios.
14:21He is spiraling.
14:23You can see that.
14:25It's almost like you are listing the symptoms
14:27of an anxiety attack in chapter 1.
14:29And later on,
14:31what comes in the next chapters,
14:33like you said, is an
14:35exercise in how to
14:37deal with somebody
14:39who is going through an anxiety attack.
14:41Because Krishna does not immediately
14:43say, hey, get over it.
14:45Or just get up
14:47and fight. Just get up and fight.
14:49Do your job. It's not that
14:51straightforward. So I thought
14:53also, what a great
14:55framework to deal with somebody
14:57who is going through a mental health problem.
14:59In fact,
15:03the way the mind
15:05is classically defined
15:07is that it is an aggregation
15:09of objects and structures
15:11around your sense of self.
15:13So it's me, the
15:15I
15:17at the center.
15:19You could say the linchpin.
15:21And me being who I am,
15:23I accumulate
15:25a lot of stuff around myself
15:27like one does in his home.
15:29And that,
15:31all that accumulation, that aggregation
15:33and those relationships,
15:35that entire network
15:37is the mind.
15:39So any crisis of mind
15:41is actually
15:43a crisis of the one
15:45who accumulated the mind.
15:49Because mind is just
15:51objects and objects in themselves
15:53are not conscious or sentient.
15:55Objects do not know anything.
15:59So it's never the mind that is agitated.
16:01The agitation
16:03of the mind is a symptom.
16:05Not the central
16:07cause.
16:09It's the self
16:11that is not
16:13restful.
16:15And the only thing that makes the self not
16:17restful is absence of self knowledge.
16:19So when
16:21the self, the ego, is not
16:23at rest, the mind
16:25will be agitated.
16:27The ego cannot be seen.
16:29But the mind can be experienced as the brain.
16:31And there can be very tangible and physical
16:33symptoms.
16:35Nobody has ever seen the ego.
16:37But the mind
16:39is more tangible.
16:41And the brain as we know, the brain is the body.
16:43It is very tangible.
16:45So we say
16:47the mind is agitated just because we cannot
16:49see the ego at the center
16:51of the agitation.
16:53So if the mind
16:55is not the root cause of agitation,
16:57if the ego is at the
16:59center of agitation,
17:01and if this diagnosis can be
17:03done, then the
17:05treatment of mind must begin with the
17:07treatment of the ego.
17:09For the ego to be
17:11treated, first of all, the disease has to be known.
17:13The condition has to be known at least.
17:15The condition of ego
17:17is one of lack
17:19of self-knowledge.
17:21That is the very definition of
17:23ego, not even the condition.
17:25The ego is the
17:27self that does not know itself.
17:29So because
17:31the ego does not know itself, it is sick.
17:37It's a cultivated sickness.
17:39It's a fake sickness actually.
17:41The ego is not really sick.
17:43It's a
17:45sickness that it has just superimposed
17:47upon itself.
17:49The ego is
17:51struggling with lack
17:53of unity
17:55with... You see, it's like this.
17:57I think of myself as a bird.
17:59And now
18:01I am anxious that I cannot
18:03fly. The thing is, you are not
18:05a bird at all. The moment you realize
18:07that, the anxiety is gone.
18:09So lack of self-knowledge can lead to all
18:11kinds of anxieties.
18:13I take myself to be
18:15what I am not. I'll expect
18:17myself to do things that I can't.
18:19And in today's world of
18:21social media, our identity
18:23has never been more fluid.
18:25You see somebody with a fancy car,
18:27you suddenly assume
18:29the identity of someone with a fancy car.
18:31And now not having a fancy car
18:33gives us sadness.
18:35The problem with this fluidity
18:37is that it is
18:39an imposed fluidity
18:41born out of helplessness
18:43of the one it is being
18:45imposed on.
18:47What does this fluidity mean? It basically means
18:49that you can come and affect
18:51my identity in one way.
18:53Now you leave and somebody else
18:55comes and my identity becomes
18:57dependent on that one. This is the fluidity we are talking
18:59of. It's a state of helplessness.
19:01I am not in charge
19:03of who I am. Anybody comes
19:05and starts determining my sense of self.
19:07My state of mind.
19:09Why? Because I do not know who I am.
19:11If I do not know, let's say,
19:13my own name and you come and address
19:15me as AB.
19:17Then I am AB for the while.
19:19Then that one comes
19:21and calls me CD. I become CD
19:23again for a while.
19:25So that's fluid identity.
19:27And it's a
19:29state of great slavery.
19:31Helplessness and powerlessness.
19:33Just because
19:35I do not know who I am.
19:37But if I know that my name is
19:39something, why?
19:41You can come and address
19:43me the way you want.
19:45I won't even mind. It will be a nice joke.
19:47He too can address me
19:49the way he
19:51pleases to and I won't even mind.
19:53And there will be no crisis
19:55within.
19:57Arjun does not know himself.
19:59He is a victim
20:01to both these conditionings.
20:03The social one
20:05and the physical one.
20:07As we all are.
20:09So,
20:11I
20:13advise my students. First of all, see
20:15that you are Arjun.
20:17Because the Gita was instructed to Arjun.
20:21Only an Arjun can be
20:23rightful recipient of Gita.
20:25If you are not Arjun,
20:27the Gita will not help you.
20:29First of all, you should see
20:31that you
20:33are the victim of multiple identities
20:35and all kinds of conditionings, just as Arjun is.
20:37And then,
20:39step by step, verse by verse,
20:41there will be some
20:43resolution, as you said.
20:45So, that's the reason the Gita
20:47is so
20:49useful and
20:51also became so commonplace.
20:53Because the very setting
20:55is of
20:57familiarity.
20:59Unlike the Upanishads,
21:01where the entire setting
21:03is idyllic and far removed
21:05from the usual
21:07householder's life.
21:09The setting of the Bhagavad Gita
21:11is extremely
21:13relatable. Everybody
21:15can relate to the Bhagavad Gita.
21:17The Upanishads and the Gita, they carry
21:19exactly the same message.
21:21They form part of the core
21:23of Vedanta.
21:25But still, the Upanishads
21:27are not
21:29as famous, not as relatable.
21:31But they carry the same message.
21:33They carry the same message. In fact,
21:35the Bhagavad Gita
21:37is called the very
21:39essence of Upanishads.
21:41And
21:43Vedanta
21:45is supposed to be
21:47having three
21:49legs, just to
21:51explain it.
21:53Not legs exactly, not stump exactly.
21:55But the audience would
21:57understand it this way. That's called
21:59Prasthan Trayee.
22:01The three pillars
22:03you could say.
22:05One of the
22:07pillars is Upanishads, and one
22:09of the pillars is the Bhagavad Gita.
22:11And then the third one is the Brahma Sutra.
22:13So the Upanishads and
22:15Bhagavad Gita, they belong
22:17to the same
22:19bracket
22:21of scriptures. Much the same.
22:23Yet,
22:25the Bhagavad Gita is far more famous than the
22:27Upanishads because of the
22:29packaging and the
22:31relatability quotient.
22:33There is feeling, there is emotion, there is drama,
22:35there is bloodshed,
22:37and there is history. It is a part of
22:39the Mahabharata, and the Mahabharata has
22:41so much that fascinates us.
22:43So the Gita became far more famous.
22:45Which is better scripting overall.
22:47Much better scripting as well, yes.
22:49One analogy that I observed,
22:51and I don't know if this is
22:53true or not, is that
22:55the entire story is written
22:57from the perspective of a
22:59blind king
23:01being told what is
23:03happening with somebody with
23:05second vision.
23:07Yes, yes, yes. I wondered if
23:09there is a metaphorical
23:11explanation to this, which is
23:13that
23:15it is not easy to look inside our
23:17own conflict.
23:19Was I reading too much into it?
23:21No, you are not.
23:23Everything
23:25there has layered meanings.
23:27And the more
23:29we get unlayered,
23:33the more the layers
23:35upon the core meaning
23:37also
23:39just remove
23:41and the core is uncovered.
23:43You could
23:45very well say that
23:47the blindness
23:49of Dhritarashtra
23:51is
23:53metaphorical
23:55and indicative of
23:57a deeper inability
23:59to see.
24:01When the
24:03second chapter starts, that's where
24:05we get into the, or we start getting
24:07into the meat of the matter, the conversation.
24:09Now the
24:11way the advice goes
24:13through
24:15the different yogas,
24:17Karma Yoga
24:19and Sanya,
24:21why is it arranged in that specific order?
24:23Why is it Karma Yoga first,
24:25Sanya Se Yoga? The arrangement is not really
24:27original.
24:29The arrangement came later.
24:31Oh.
24:33The division of chapters in this
24:35particular way and
24:37particularly the naming of the chapters,
24:39that came later.
24:41So we need
24:43not read too much into why one
24:45particular chapter is named
24:47in one particular way,
24:49but what I
24:51find interesting there is that the war
24:53lasted 18 days
24:55and there are 18 chapters.
24:57That is true.
24:59So
25:01was it one per day?
25:03I think so.
25:05Just
25:07cute little things to keep
25:09us engaged
25:11and pointers and reminders
25:13that there is still something more to it.
25:15But one must not read
25:17too much into these things.
25:19Otherwise one will miss the central message.
25:23I want to talk about the
25:25three main yogas in the Bhagavad Gita.
25:27So let's talk about the Karma Yoga
25:29first, which is
25:31put it in a nutshell
25:33what I have understood is
25:35action takes precedence over
25:37everything else.
25:39But is that the right
25:41interpretation?
25:45As we
25:47were saying, Gita
25:49comes from the legacy
25:51of the Upanishads.
25:55In fact,
25:57very strictly
25:59speaking,
26:01the Upanishads are placed higher
26:03than the Gita.
26:05The Upanishads form part of
26:07what is called the Shruti literature,
26:09revealed literature,
26:11literature without an author,
26:13literature without
26:15a human author,
26:17a Purushaya literature.
26:19So Upanishads come from there.
26:21Gita forms
26:23part of Smriti literature
26:25where
26:27the scripture is the product
26:29of an author,
26:31a human author,
26:33it's a human creation. So the Gita forms
26:35part of Mahabharata and Mahabharata is
26:37attributed to Vedas.
26:39So very very strictly
26:41speaking, because Upanishads
26:43are Shruti and Gita is Smriti,
26:45the Upanishads are in some sense
26:47above the Bhagavad Gita.
26:49So that is not practically
26:51how it is accepted
26:53and it is also not
26:55useful to put it
26:57this way.
27:01But it's important to see
27:03that it's
27:05the message of the Upanishads
27:07that will reverberate through all
27:09the chapters of the Gita. It has to.
27:13The Upanishads are
27:15Gyan.
27:17What is Gyan?
27:19Gyan not in the
27:21sense of knowing about the world
27:23and this and that.
27:25Atma Gyan, self-knowledge.
27:29So the core
27:31message of Gita too is
27:33self-knowledge. Arjun, please understand
27:35who you are.
27:37What is
27:39Karma Yog then?
27:41Focus
27:43not on the Karma but on the
27:45Karta, the doer.
27:47Know who you are.
27:49If you focus too
27:51much on the action,
27:53you will be deluded.
27:55Look at the actor.
27:57If the actor is right, you need not think
27:59about the action. The action
28:01will fall in place on its own.
28:03That's Karma Yog.
28:05I like to put it this way.
28:07Chapter 2
28:09comes before Chapter 3.
28:13Chapter 3 is Karma Yog.
28:15Chapter 2 is Gyan Yog.
28:17Got it.
28:19Fair.
28:21So the best thing
28:23was served to Arjun
28:25first of all. Gyan Yog.
28:27But Arjun was
28:29still reticent. You know, Krishna
28:31I have my doubts. In fact, at points
28:33he is kind of
28:35accusing Krishna of misleading him.
28:37That is the extent
28:39attachment and delusion
28:41can delude you.
28:43So
28:45after Gyan Yog
28:47which is Sankh Yog, then there is
28:49Karma, Karma Sannyas and all the things
28:51that follow.
28:53So Karma.
28:55Whenever Shri Krishna says
28:57Karma, it's
28:59Nishkama Karma.
29:01Whenever Shri Krishna says Gyan,
29:03it's Atma Gyan.
29:05So Karma Yog is actually
29:07Nishkama Karma Yog.
29:09Nishkama Karma means
29:11action that is not
29:13coming from a desirous
29:15self.
29:17Action that is not coming
29:19from a desirous actor.
29:21And if
29:23you do not know the actor, the actor
29:25will remain desirous because we are born
29:27incomplete.
29:29Where there is incompletion, there is desire.
29:31Desire to be complete.
29:33If I do not know myself,
29:35I will remain incomplete and therefore
29:37all my actions will be full of desire.
29:39Therefore, the only way
29:41Karma can be Nishkama
29:43is through Atma Gyan.
29:45You cannot have Nishkama Karma without Atma Gyan.
29:47Otherwise,
29:49your Nishkama Karma will be very superficial.
29:51On the surface, you might feel you are
29:53acting without desire, but there will be
29:55some lingering desire within
29:57that you might even not know of because you don't
29:59know yourself.
30:01And that
30:03desire is not something
30:05that can be fulfilled by
30:07just achieving the next
30:09target. No, no. It never gets fulfilled.
30:11It never gets fulfilled.
30:13It can get fulfillment
30:15only through
30:17getting negated.
30:19So
30:21today, in my heart
30:23there are desires.
30:25There are things that I want to achieve
30:27in medicine, in social media
30:29or whatever.
30:31Now, I cannot say
30:33that I will let go of these desires
30:35after I have achieved
30:37say 1 million on YouTube.
30:39There is nothing like that.
30:41Nishkama Karma is not about not having
30:43desires. Nishkama Karma,
30:45I repeat, is about
30:47not having desires
30:49coming from a point
30:51of incompletion. It's about
30:53the actor, not about the action.
30:55It's about the
30:57desirous one, not about the desire.
30:59You can have desires.
31:01But your core
31:03must be desireless.
31:05Then your desire
31:07will not be for your personal self.
31:09Then your desire
31:11will actually be auspicious for the
31:13entire world.
31:15Nishkama Karma is not about
31:17not having desire.
31:19Krishna does not use
31:21prescriptive language. No, do not desire.
31:23Just go and fight.
31:25No, not that way.
31:27So, we said
31:29it's not about the action. It is about
31:31the actor. It is not
31:33about the desire. It is about the
31:35desirous entity.
31:37So, it is about the desirous
31:39entity. Nishkama Karma means the one
31:41who used to have desires
31:43has now
31:45known himself.
31:47And after you have known yourself,
31:49all the evil
31:51within is dropped,
31:53disappears, vaporizes.
31:55The only evil within
31:57is lack of self-knowledge.
31:59Once I know myself,
32:01I am clear about who I am.
32:03It's not as
32:05mundane as I am
32:07making it sound to be.
32:09But once you have known
32:11yourself, there is a thing called
32:13there is no end to it.
32:15But for the purpose of this conversation,
32:17I am putting it in simplistic terms.
32:19So, once
32:21there is that, what could
32:23I call it? Purity within?
32:25Or clarity within?
32:27Then,
32:29in some sense, you are entitled to desire.
32:31You are not even entitled to
32:33desire. You are obligated to desire.
32:35You are not even obligated to desire.
32:37You are free of all obligations.
32:39Now,
32:41go ahead
32:43and just play.
32:45For instance, if my identity
32:47is an F1 car driver
32:49and through and through my identity
32:51is that, I will desire to win
32:53the race
32:55because that is my identity.
32:57But you are saying that
32:59I can do that
33:01as long as
33:03my core self is
33:05detached.
33:07The
33:09entire wisdom literature
33:11is absolutely
33:13silent of what you can do
33:15and what you cannot do. It is totally silent
33:17on that.
33:19It is not prescriptive.
33:21It is not an instruction manual.
33:23I feel we are at the crux
33:25of something here because if you crack this.
33:27So, it is not about
33:29whether you can want that,
33:31whether you can achieve that, whether you should do this,
33:33whether you should do that.
33:35You are proud in your religion. No, no, no.
33:37We don't do these things. We are Jews. We are Christians.
33:39We are Buddhists or Hindus. No, no.
33:41That is not the way of wisdom.
33:43What you do,
33:45what you wear, what you eat,
33:47how you marry, whether you marry,
33:49we are not going to get into that.
33:51That is not the way of wisdom.
33:53We want
33:55to look at who we are.
33:57We want to look at who we are.
33:59And after that, whatever happens is auspicious.
34:01Fine.
34:03Who am I to tell you how to live?
34:05But yes,
34:07if you are struggling, I would probably
34:09come to you and throw some light
34:11on the way.
34:13You are struggling, you are stumbling,
34:15you are falling, you have hurt your knees.
34:17I would say, friend,
34:19here is a torch.
34:21There is some light.
34:23But you have to use your own eyes.
34:25And whether you want to use the torch
34:27is again your discretion.
34:29I am not going to impose it on you.
34:31You have to do it yourself.
34:33So, all wisdom literature
34:35is about enabling
34:37you to see.
34:39See what?
34:41First of all, who you are.
34:43And what does that mean?
34:45Because if you repeat that phrase
34:47too often, it becomes very
34:49cliched and who I am, who I am
34:51appears so mysterious, one gets lost in it.
34:53It is not about seeing who I am.
34:55It is about seeing who I am not
34:57and yet have become.
34:59I am not this and yet
35:01I have become this.
35:03Many times you find yourself
35:05in situations where you almost
35:07feel like you are acting.
35:09You are acting because you have been trained to act.
35:11Yes. You have been conditioned to act.
35:13In such situations,
35:15this is how it is done.
35:17This is how it is done.
35:19Now that
35:21the fellow has arrived,
35:23you are supposed to smile and greet.
35:25Now the fellow says, oh, I lost my job.
35:27You are supposed to offer some kind of
35:29commiseration.
35:31So, I am not that.
35:33But something
35:35happened in the process of my journey
35:37through life and I just
35:39got indoctrinated,
35:41conditioned to do that.
35:43So,
35:45Jnan is about freedom
35:47from what you are not and
35:49yet have been forced to become.
35:51It is freedom from becoming.
35:53Becoming that came to you
35:55in the past and becoming
35:57that pulls you to the future.
35:59What does future mean to us? Becoming, right?
36:01I want to become such a thing in the future.
36:03And all this becoming associated
36:05with the future is actually a residue
36:07of the past. Pushing you.
36:09You cannot have desires for the
36:11future
36:13devoid of your experiences of the past.
36:15If you remove everything that has
36:17happened to you in the past,
36:19what will you do? There is no desire
36:21for the future then. You cannot have dreams
36:23and aspirations then.
36:25So, we remain entangled in all that and the
36:27net result is suffering.
36:29So, wisdom then,
36:31the way Krishna is imparting
36:33it to Arjun, is about seeing
36:35what Arjun is not.
36:37Arjun, why are you behaving this way?
36:39You know where your action is coming from.
36:41Arjun, can you see where your action
36:43is coming from? Therefore,
36:45there is a tremendous lot of negativa
36:47the Gita deals in.
36:49Nirashi nirmamo bhav
36:51Nirmamo bhav
36:53Yudhya swa vigata jor
36:55You look at the construction
36:57of the very word.
36:59Drop hope. Nirashi bhav.
37:03Drop ownership.
37:05The sense of possession.
37:07Nirmamo bhav
37:09You see how the very word is constructed?
37:11Hope is towards the future.
37:13Ownership is from the past.
37:15Drop these things.
37:17In fact, the entire
37:19repository of words that you find
37:21in the Gita, they themselves
37:23tell you what Shri Krishna is attempting.
37:25He is saying, just drop it.
37:27Just drop it.
37:29And if you do not drop that, then
37:31you will drop the Gandiva.
37:33So, pick up the Gandiva and drop the
37:35nonsense.
37:37Because when you think about motivation,
37:39why are we doing anything?
37:41We are most likely being
37:43either pushed by something in our past
37:45or pulled by something in our future.
37:47So, am I doing this hoping that
37:49something will come in the future
37:51or am I doing this because
37:53I have committed to something?
37:55Actually, there is not even an or in between.
37:57As you stand,
37:59there is the past
38:01that you think is behind you.
38:03And the future
38:05is but a mirror.
38:07What you look at
38:09as the future
38:11is nothing but a reflection
38:13of your past.
38:15So, here I am and there is a mirror there.
38:17And what I see in the mirror
38:19is stuff that is actually behind me.
38:25So, there are no new dreams actually.
38:27What we are dreaming of
38:29is actually just the stuff
38:31of the past repackaged.
38:33Or things that you can see other people do.
38:35Things that you have seen
38:37other people do.
38:39Again in the past.
38:41Yes.
38:43What can you dream of in the future
38:45that has not happened?
38:47Can you think of anything that has not been
38:49in your experience so far?
38:51No.
38:53Even imagination is dependent
38:55on the repository of experiences.
38:57So, all hope and optimism
38:59is just projected past.
39:01And that's what the Gita
39:03is attempting to rid Arjuna of.
39:07In psychology and even in neuroscience
39:09when it comes to motivation,
39:11external motivation and internal motivation.
39:13So, all external motivation
39:15is motivation influenced
39:17by things that have happened around us
39:19to us. And internal motivation
39:21is one that comes from within.
39:23And there is a lot of discussion
39:25whether is there an internal
39:27motivation? Isn't everything
39:29external motivation?
39:31In the world of Gita,
39:33first of all,
39:35the external and the internal motivations
39:37become one.
39:39Secondly, both
39:41become redundant.
39:45Krishna is not motivating Arjuna.
39:47Krishna is illuminating Arjuna.
39:49In fact, the very core of Gita
39:51is motive-less action.
39:53I'll put all motivational
39:55speakers out of business.
39:57Oh, they hate me.
40:01What do I do? Nishkama Karma
40:03is motive-less action. What do I do?
40:05You are trying to motivate.
40:07Shri Krishna is saying motivation
40:09is nonsense.
40:11What do I do?
40:15Knowledge
40:17leads to action.
40:19The Jnana Yoga
40:21leads to Karma Yoga.
40:23After that
40:25is
40:27renunciation.
40:29Actually,
40:31it's not even that.
40:33Knowledge
40:35does not lead to action.
40:37Knowledge makes
40:39action
40:41superfluous.
40:43In knowledge,
40:45you cease
40:47to bother about action.
40:49It's not that
40:51if you have the right knowledge, then you will do the right action.
40:53No, that's not the framework.
40:55Once you
40:57know who you are, you need
40:59not keep an eye on yourself.
41:01Because
41:03action still assumes will.
41:05Now, there is no
41:07will. There is just a certain
41:09very peaceful
41:11completion.
41:13After that, you can allow yourself
41:15to just play and flow.
41:17That's Advaita Vedanta. Go play.
41:19If you
41:21gain the knowledge that you are water,
41:23you will flow.
41:25If you gain the knowledge that you are a rock, then you will
41:27be there. And if you understand you are nobody,
41:29then there is
41:31no need to
41:33have prescriptive
41:35checks on yourself.
41:37Why else would you want
41:39to determine your action in advance?
41:41Why would you want to plan your action
41:43in advance? Only when, first of all,
41:45you have a model of things.
41:47To be free of ignorance is to be
41:49free of all models.
41:51Now, you can act freely.
41:53Now, you can act in ways that
41:55even you have not thought of.
41:57Now, this kind of
41:59freedom, as you hear it,
42:01as you hear of it,
42:05does it not
42:07terrify you?
42:09It's scary.
42:11That quantum of freedom, that immensity of freedom
42:13where even you do not know
42:15what you are going to do next.
42:17It's horrible.
42:19And that's the reason why the real thing
42:21could never become massy.
42:23That's why India, in spite of
42:25being the mother of
42:27these things, Indians could never
42:29partake the benefit.
42:31At least not the bulk of Indians.
42:33Because even when we talk of this
42:35freedom, we are talking of freedom
42:37from self.
42:39Because what we identify as self is
42:41that person who is acting.
42:43We still
42:45associate freedom with freedom of choice.
42:47And here you are saying that
42:49once you have that level of knowledge,
42:51there is no need for choice.
42:53Because there is no chooser.
42:55There is nobody to choose.
42:57So, in a way,
42:59that is death.
43:01Wonderfully put.
43:03And that death is something
43:05that wisdom literature
43:07sings so beautifully
43:09and so
43:13just tugs at your heart strings.
43:15If you hear the saints singing
43:17of death, that inner death.
43:19जिस मरनी से जग डरे मेरो मन आनन्द
43:21कब मरी हूँ कब भेटे हूँ
43:23पूरण परमानन्द
43:25He is saying, the world is afraid of death.
43:27And that's what gives me joy.
43:29I want to die.
43:31And of course, he is not talking of physical death.
43:33He is talking of the inner death.
43:35The महामृत्यू.
43:37That must come to you before the body falls apart.
43:39Ego death.
43:41And that's the purpose of life.
43:43There is a term
43:45that is used in psychedelic
43:47literature called
43:49ego dissolution.
43:51And all psychedelic effects are measured
43:53on a scale of five parameters.
43:55There is one called oceanic boundlessness.
43:57There is one called ego dissolution.
43:59There are four or five others.
44:01And ego dissolution is when
44:03you feel
44:05your ego dissolving.
44:07Who is there to feel?
44:09That's the
44:11question mark.
44:13All that is maya.
44:15To feel that you are not.
44:17Who is the one feeling?
44:19It's like saying, I am silent.
44:21Then who is speaking?
44:23Who is there to utter that you are silent?
44:25Which reminds me of
44:27this conflict which is there in monotheistic
44:29religions about going to heaven.
44:31How will you go to heaven?
44:33See, that's a question
44:35that religious people so often
44:37fail to ask.
44:39Who? Who is going to heaven?
44:41Who?
44:43To whom? Whose?
44:45All those questions.
44:47They don't ask.
44:51Tell me about bhakti.
44:53Love.
44:55Love.
44:57Is it the same as surrender?
44:59Surrender to whom?
45:01And by whom?
45:03I see I am not
45:05what
45:07I must be
45:09if I am to live in peace
45:11or fulfillment or joy.
45:13So I surrender
45:15this sub-optimal self.
45:17That's surrender.
45:19To what? To my greatest potential.
45:21You could call it
45:23the complete being, total being, absolute being
45:25or equally you could call it non-being.
45:27Non-being.
45:29So that's love. That's bhakti.
45:31You are not surrendering to
45:33external entity.
45:35No, no, no. Never.
45:37So when people stand in front of a
45:39photo or an idol or a book or anything
45:41and they surrender to that
45:43entity, is there
45:45a difference?
45:47There is a choice then.
45:49The only problem
45:51is that it becomes infeasible.
45:53Surrender becomes infeasible
45:55when you are surrendering to somebody outside
45:57of you. Why?
45:59Because now there is a choice.
46:01You chose to surrender to that.
46:03You did not choose to surrender to this.
46:05So the one making the choice
46:07is keeping himself intact.
46:09So how is now surrender complete?
46:11Partial surrender will happen
46:13and partial surrender is no good.
46:15Therefore any kind of surrender to any
46:17external entity will never be complete.
46:19It will not deliver the goods.
46:23I would push back here saying
46:25maybe it's not equally good
46:27but does it come with some benefits?
46:29There are some benefits.
46:31It can be a preparatory thing.
46:33It can be a provisional thing.
46:35Because the benefits of prayer
46:37even partial surrender
46:39to the brain is still noticeable.
46:41But you have to understand that
46:47unless you
46:49graduate just at the right time
46:53you run the risk of
46:55rotting.
46:57In that state of partial surrender.
46:59In that state of partial surrender and
47:01that partiality can become
47:03addictive.
47:05It's a very comfortable
47:07spot that you have acquired
47:09for yourself.
47:11Where the ego gets the pleasure
47:13of being called a surrendered ego.
47:15It also gets the
47:17pleasures that come
47:19with
47:21all the things that you do.
47:23There obviously are some mental
47:25benefits to that.
47:27And then you don't want to move from that state.
47:29You think of that state as the final one.
47:31So there is a great
47:33problem there.
47:35It's something okay to begin with.
47:37But very soon you must
47:39graduate ahead of it.
47:41So any
47:43proclaimed enlightened soul
47:45who is still in public
47:47talking about how they are enlightened
47:49is it fair
47:51to raise a question mark on their enlightenment?
47:53There is no need to even raise a question mark.
47:55A question mark is when there is
47:57uncertainty.
47:59It is certain that they are fooling
48:01themselves. So there is no question.
48:03Because anyone who has
48:05truly reached that
48:07it does not exist anymore.
48:09To reach there is to
48:11disappear. Now who is there
48:13to claim
48:15the credit?
48:17Who is there to make the declaration? I am enlightened.
48:19As long as you are, you cannot
48:21be enlightened. It's like saying I am dead.
48:23I come and say I am dead.
48:25Sir, if you are dead, who is talking?
48:27Exactly. So by the very act
48:29of
48:31declaring one's enlightenment
48:33one has actually certified
48:35that he is not.
48:41Practical Bhagavad Gita
48:43to a 25 year old
48:45student or
48:47young working professional in India.
48:49They have never explored it before.
48:51Practical Bhagavad Gita. How would they
48:53start? What should they do?
48:55Do they need
48:57to read it?
48:59Obviously.
49:01They don't need to read it.
49:03The reading has to be there.
49:05It's a book.
49:07You have to read it.
49:09One must
49:11stay with the verses for long.
49:13Very very long.
49:17One should not
49:19be lazy
49:21with the
49:23interpretations.
49:25Because
49:27it's a
49:29famous scripture.
49:31There are just too many commentaries.
49:33One should first of all
49:35try to get
49:37into a personal relationship
49:39with the speaker,
49:41the author, whatever,
49:43creator, Krishna.
49:49First thing,
49:51there should be no need,
49:53no primary need
49:55for an intermediary.
49:57An intermediary
49:59should be
50:01called in only when
50:03there is a genuine obstacle.
50:05I cannot proceed any
50:07further or this part is something
50:09I just cannot get any clarity with.
50:11Or I have some clarity with this.
50:13Yet I think there is something more to it.
50:15Only then you should call for assistance.
50:17Otherwise it should be
50:19an intimate thing between you and Krishna.
50:21Which also means that
50:23if you pick up a book, you should not be
50:25too eager to
50:27jump on to the elaboration,
50:29the commentary.
50:31There is the verse.
50:33See what you can make of it.
50:35When Krishna was speaking to Arjun,
50:37there was nobody in between
50:39serving as a middle man.
50:41It's not as if Krishna was speaking to some guru
50:43and the guru was then elaborating
50:45it to Arjun.
50:47Arjun had to struggle to understand
50:49just like you the reader
50:51will struggle to understand.
50:53You should avoid
50:55partisan interpretations.
51:01It has to be a love affair.
51:03You cannot look at it like
51:05a textbook.
51:07You have to carry it wherever you go.
51:09You have to read one verse many times.
51:11Then you go
51:13back and forth.
51:15You return to a particular verse.
51:17You play with them.
51:19One of the memories that I have
51:21from my childhood.
51:23I am sleeping.
51:25I have fallen asleep
51:27with the Gita
51:29on my chest.
51:31It's open
51:33in some of the pages.
51:35They either
51:37get dog-eared or a little
51:39and then in the morning
51:41I get a bit of a scolding.
51:43What have you done to the Gita?
51:47I hardly
51:49followed any
51:51prescriptive way.
51:53It was a love affair between me and
51:55Gita, between me and Krishna
51:57where I actually didn't want
51:59a middle man.
52:03I actually
52:05got
52:07slapped once.
52:09I was having my dinner
52:11with the book open by my side.
52:13A little bit of dal.
52:15That's something
52:17that you don't allow in a Hindu
52:19family.
52:21Where is the reverence?
52:23First of all, you are not supposed to read it when you are eating.
52:25I was doing that.
52:27Then to make
52:29some food item
52:31fall on the pages of the Bhagavad Gita.
52:33That's just not permissible.
52:35Why you got
52:37down?
52:39I am not advising that.
52:41That just came to my mind.
52:43What I am trying to highlight
52:45is that there was a
52:47very genuine relationship.
52:53Try to get to the essence of what I am saying.
52:55Like kids carry their dolls wherever
52:57they go. Sometimes they do that, right?
52:59So,
53:01it should be a friendly learning.
53:03It was a friendly learning.
53:05I was grappling, wrestling, doing all kinds
53:07of things with it.
53:09Arguing. Not accepting it easily.
53:11I have argued endlessly
53:13with Krishna. Not that I have given
53:15easily. No way.
53:17That was not again the case with only this book.
53:19There were
53:21so many other books
53:23that I have
53:25grappled with.
53:27There is this thing in Salesman
53:29where
53:31there is a book called Never Split the Difference.
53:33They talk about
53:35negotiation tactics.
53:37One of the lessons is that
53:39if you are selling something to somebody
53:41and if they say yes,
53:43that makes you a bad salesman.
53:45Their first response
53:47should be no.
53:49Because that means they have heard you.
53:51People will say yes
53:53just to get out of a
53:55difficult conversation.
53:57Yes, yes, I will buy it.
53:59That means you actually have their
54:01attention and then you have to convince
54:03them. So, I like that you
54:05argued because that means
54:07it hit.
54:09You see,
54:11how can there be
54:13surrender without struggle?
54:15Without struggle. Exactly. You are giving up
54:17the most precious thing in your life.
54:19All that I have is me.
54:21You want
54:23to have me, the totality of
54:25my existence. Correct. And I will
54:27just give in without a fight.
54:29It's not a real giving in.
54:31Correct. Where is the violence?
54:35I think that makes a lot of sense.
54:41Over the next one or two years,
54:43I will read it again now.
54:45After this conversation. Wonderful.
54:47And I will be talking about
54:49this and I will be bringing
54:51in wisdom
54:53that I have gained from this.
54:55What I would eventually like to do
54:57is to bring more of
54:59a scientific lens to
55:01what the verses have said.
55:03Because there is a lot of biology.
55:05There is a lot of what is happening in your body.
55:07It talks of senses. It talks about
55:09levels of senses. It talks about
55:11levels of pleasure.
55:13And maybe 50-100 years ago
55:15the pleasure networks were not
55:17described
55:19in neuroscience. But now
55:21they are. So, now when
55:23I hear the verse on pleasure,
55:25I can compare
55:27with pleasure networks in the brain
55:29and understand, oh, is this
55:31what it was meant for?
55:33In fact, I would like to possibly
55:35contribute with
55:37all the instances
55:39where Shri Krishna is referring
55:41to something
55:43that corresponds to
55:45neuroscience.
55:47He talks of, for example,
55:49Nirmalendriya.
55:51He distinguishes
55:53even between sense and sense.
55:55He says there is one
55:57kind of sense and then there is another kind of sense.
55:59Now what does that
56:01mean in the terms of whatever happens
56:03in the neurons is
56:05better obviously understood by you.
56:07And
56:09man, yes, the mind,
56:11the relationship of the mind to the brain,
56:13the Gita
56:15goes into all that
56:17in length.
56:19It was
56:21very fascinating for me the last time
56:23but I have since
56:25become more
56:27engrossed into it.
56:29So, there is an open
56:31invitation here
56:33that we can do that at a
56:35deeper level. Definitely,
56:37my pleasure. I do that all the
56:39time. That's my life.
56:43One verse,
56:45every single verse,
56:47we
56:49spend hours and hours on it
56:51and
56:53these books
56:55that you see, in fact, they don't even contain
56:57all the
56:59verses. This is not even
57:0110% of the work.
57:05And still, in spite
57:07of whatever I might have done,
57:09there is so, so much more
57:11that still needs to be done.
57:13So,
57:15I would be happy.
57:19It would be an honor.
57:21Acharya ji, thank you so much
57:23for being a part of this conversation.
57:25Most welcome. I really enjoyed this conversation.
57:27Thank you. It has been a learning opportunity.