How Dana White Turned The UFC Into A Multibillion-Dollar Business

Forbes

Over the past two decades, Dana White has turned mixed martial arts, or MMA, into a global phenomenon and, in turn, made his UFC into a behemoth, generating an estimated $1.3 billion in revenue last year—with staggering margins (Ebitda) of almost 60%. Along the way he’s become more famous than any of the fighters who step into his Octagon and amassed a net worth that Forbes estimates to be more than $600 million.  Read the full story on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattcraig/2025/02/05/dana-white-interview-ufc-net-worth-donald-trump-power-slap/  0:00 Intro 2:19 Dana White Meets The Fertitta Brothers 3:25 White Convinces The Fertitta Brothers To Buy The UFC 5:50 The UFC Finds An Ally In Donald Trump 7:36 Finding A Trojan Horse To Get The UFC On TV 11:48 Dana White Becomes A Star And The Face Of The UFC 15:50 How The UFC Survived The Covid-19 Pandemic 19:41 Behind The Scenes At UFC 310  27:19 A UFC Fighter's Perspective  27:58 White's Newest Combat Venture  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00You know, people ask me this all the time.

00:04Did you ever envision this?

00:05Did you ever think that it would be this big?

00:07And the answer is always yes.

00:09Good uppercut.

00:10Oh, that's it.

00:11He's down.

00:11That's it.

00:13Mario Yamazaki stops the fight.

00:16We completely believed in this thing when we bought it.

00:19The question is, is the timing right?

00:21And the answer to that question is

00:23the timing couldn't have been more perfect.

00:25The UFC essentially created the sport

00:27of mixed martial arts in the early 90s,

00:30but in the early days, it was really like cage fighting.

00:33I had known what the UFC was like a lot of people

00:35back in the 93 when it started.

00:38You know, I watched the no rules events on pay-per-view

00:40and it was like, wow, this is crazy.

00:42One of the most fascinating things about fighting is

00:44when you have somebody that looks like you,

00:46talks like you and comes from where you come from

00:49and they're looked at as the baddest human being on earth,

00:51your people surround you and support you.

00:54What's important to remember is that at this point in time

00:57in the mid 90s, UFC had a terrible reputation.

01:00Senator John McCain called it human cock fighting,

01:03leading a campaign that saw dozens of states

01:05and multiple pay-per-view providers to ban it.

01:08But there was an undeniable appeal to the fights.

01:11My philosophy has always been

01:13fighting is in our DNA as human beings.

01:16No matter what color we are,

01:18what country we come from, what language we speak,

01:20we like fighting.

01:21Over the last 25 years, Dana White has turned

01:23mixed martial arts into a global phenomenon.

01:26And in turn, made his UFC into a behemoth,

01:29generating an estimated $1.3 billion in revenue last year,

01:33with staggering EBITDA margins of almost 60%.

01:38But that money did not pour in overnight.

01:41It started more than two decades ago

01:42with a bi-coastal college dropout.

01:46I lived in Massachusetts until like fifth grade.

01:50Then we moved here to Las Vegas.

01:52And then when I was 17, I went back to Boston.

01:56So I sort of bounced back and forth

01:58between the West Coast and the East Coast.

01:59And I got the best of both worlds.

02:02Got to meet a lot of different people.

02:03And obviously, you know, my roots in boxing

02:06started in South Boston, Massachusetts.

02:09Yet, there were a lot of opportunities

02:12and things that I learned here in Las Vegas

02:13that helped me, I don't know,

02:16shape me to what I would end up becoming.

02:19White met Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta,

02:21who were the billionaire heirs

02:22to the station casino fortune,

02:24during their stint at Bishop Gorman High School

02:26in Las Vegas during the late 80s.

02:29But it wasn't until a decade later,

02:30when they ran into each other at a mutual friend's wedding,

02:33that one of the most lucrative friendships

02:35in sports combat history would be solidified.

02:38He said he was training boxers.

02:40He was kind of in that business.

02:42And he was also managing some boxers.

02:45And I said, huh, that's interesting.

02:46I was just appointed

02:47to the Nevada State Athletic Commission,

02:50one of the five members that regulates

02:52the sport of boxing in Nevada.

02:55And in kind of a funny way,

02:57if it wasn't for Adam Corrigan

02:58inviting both of us to his wedding,

03:00the UFC may not exist as it does today.

03:03And sometimes fate does that.

03:05Me and the Fertitta brothers

03:06started doing jujitsu together,

03:07and we fell in love with it.

03:08We became obsessed with it,

03:10training three, four days a week.

03:12And then we started to meet some of the UFC fighters.

03:15And we were like, wow, these guys are really good guys.

03:19John Lewis was a guy who lived in Las Vegas.

03:22And he, at the time, was a UFC fighter.

03:24He was on the roster.

03:26We started training with John.

03:27We did one-on-ones.

03:28It was me, Frank, and Dana.

03:29And we fell in love with it.

03:31I mean, it just completely changed our perspective.

03:34White was managing a few UFC fighters,

03:37and while talking to the company,

03:38realized it was in trouble.

03:39So he convinced the Fertittas to buy the UFC

03:42from Bob Meyerowitz before it went bankrupt.

03:44I love risk.

03:45I love taking what I call,

03:49people would call chances.

03:50I like taking opportunities.

03:51In January, 2001, the brothers closed a deal

03:54to acquire the UFC for $2 million,

03:56naming White as the president and giving him a 10% stake.

04:00We felt like what we had here is we had that brand,

04:03all of our smart attorneys and consultants told us,

04:06what are you guys doing?

04:07This is never gonna work.

04:08How does this make any sense?

04:10And what we said is we're getting three letters, the UFC,

04:14and that's all that matters.

04:15And we'll build the business from there.

04:17You wanna talk about people not believing in the UFC?

04:21So think about this.

04:23When we bought this company for $2 million,

04:25we literally bought an old wooden octagon.

04:28We had three letters, the UFC,

04:30and like 12, 15 contracts, right?

04:32The old owner had sold everything,

04:35all the ancillary stuff away to Lionsgate, right?

04:38So Lionsgate owned everything,

04:40the merchandise, the video games, the DVDs.

04:43So we flew out to Lionsgate

04:45and they sold us the rights back.

04:49And I wanna say it was like $3 million

04:51that was gonna be paid over the next several years.

04:54So when we left, they were probably cracking up,

04:56laughing, going, wow, this is gonna look great

04:59on our books over the next three years.

05:01Now those rights are worth, you know,

05:04hundreds of millions to billions of dollars.

05:06So when you talk about not believing,

05:09they own the rights to this thing.

05:10They never thought this was gonna work.

05:12It's pretty incredible that White,

05:14who was operating boxing gyms

05:15and had never run a big business before,

05:17was suddenly trusted to negotiate multi-million dollar deals.

05:21He really understood who the customer was

05:25and what the demographic was

05:27and how the product should be presented for it

05:31to be successful.

05:32He had this incredible drive,

05:34like he's so competitive

05:38and he would literally run through a wall to make it work.

05:41And I think looking back,

05:43if me and my brother would have said,

05:45we're gonna go out, we're gonna hire a Harvard MBA,

05:48we'd have been toast.

05:50Because of its reputation,

05:51nobody would host the UFC events,

05:53but the reborn company found an early ally in Donald Trump.

05:56He got it, he liked it, he saw it,

05:59and he said, come to Taj Mahal, we'll do the events.

06:01We did two events, he showed up for the first one,

06:03stayed till the last.

06:05Trump enjoyed the sport so much that in 2008,

06:07he made a failed attempt

06:08to launch his own competing MMA venture.

06:11I wanna say it was TMZ was interviewing me one time

06:14and they're like,

06:15Donald Trump's about to go head to head with you.

06:17You know, what do you have to say about that?

06:18I said, I'll never say anything bad about Donald Trump.

06:21Donald Trump was good to us, you know,

06:24but it's a testament to how much he likes fighting

06:27and what he saw in the UFC back in those days.

06:31Now people look back and they say,

06:32oh, UFC was an overnight success.

06:34And no, it wasn't.

06:35Like there were at least five years there

06:37that were very difficult.

06:39By this time, the Fratitas had sunk

06:41more than $30 million into the company with little return.

06:44We got to the point where we were just losing money.

06:47Year after year, every event, we were losing money.

06:50And at the same time, fighters wanted to make more money.

06:53Managers wanted more money.

06:54Everybody wanted, wanted, wanted, wanted.

06:56So one day I was at the office and Lorenzo called me

07:00and he's like, I can't keep doing this.

07:03Me and my brother can't keep funding this thing.

07:05It's getting bad.

07:06So I need you to go out

07:08and see what you can sell this thing for.

07:09I started making phone calls that day.

07:11And at the end of the day, I called him back and I said,

07:14seven or 8 million,

07:15could probably get seven or 8 million

07:16for this thing, in my opinion.

07:18So literally went home, woke up the next morning

07:22and just felt like it's not the right thing to do.

07:25I thought it was over.

07:27And the next day I'm driving to work

07:29and Lorenzo calls me in.

07:30This is literally quote what he said, fuck it.

07:33Let's keep going.

07:37The way for this business to work

07:40was we had to get distribution on television.

07:44But at the time they wouldn't even allow it on pay-per-view.

07:47So think about this, as a grown man,

07:50you didn't have the option to buy this thing on pay-per-view.

07:53Porn was on pay-per-view, but UFC was not allowed.

07:56We had already gone out and pitched it.

07:58Every network in Hollywood, you know, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN.

08:04I mean, it's a joke,

08:05but I did say like, if the Food Network would put it on,

08:08I'd put it on there.

08:08We could convince them.

08:09When you're grinding and nobody wants your product

08:12and nobody wants to hear about it,

08:14you gotta sort of go out and then, you know,

08:17force them to take it.

08:18The guy that ran in-demand pay-per-view,

08:21his name was Marshall Zelaznik.

08:23He wouldn't even take a meeting with us.

08:24So they used to have their big cable TV convention

08:27in Century City.

08:29And I booked a hotel room there, got up in the morning,

08:32went down to where all the conferences were,

08:34found out what meeting he was in

08:35and waited for him outside the door.

08:36And when he came out, I said,

08:38Marshall, Dana White from the UFC.

08:39I got the, you could tell too, when I walked up to him,

08:41he was like, how the hell did this guy find me?

08:44So I started telling him, we just created this reality show.

08:47It's designed to sell pay-per-views.

08:48It'll be big for both of our businesses.

08:50And he hated it, but we ended up working it out.

08:52We did a deal with them.

08:54White and the Fertittas teamed up

08:55with veteran TV producer, Craig Poligian,

08:57to develop a reality show called The Ultimate Fighter.

09:05Reality television was so big at the time,

09:07it was like our Trojan horse to get on TV, you know,

09:10with fighting, without it actually being fighting.

09:13So we were pitching all the networks, nobody liked it.

09:15So this new network popped up called Spike TV.

09:18And it was, they were labeled the network for men.

09:20I mean, if we don't fit there, where do we fit?

09:23They passed.

09:25But then we said, hey, why don't we go to them

09:30and we will propose that we'll pay for the production.

09:37We'll pay for the production and give it to you for free.

09:40The season was going to cost $10 million,

09:43but as long as the Fertittas were footing the bill,

09:45Spike was happy to take a chance on the show for free.

09:48When you look back on stuff like that,

09:50and for other entrepreneurs that are out there,

09:52when you have to put up the money at the time for yourself,

09:55it's hard and it seems whatever,

09:56but you have to put up the money for yourself.

09:59And it seems whatever, but guess what ended up happening?

10:02We put up the money, so we owned 100% of everything.

10:05We owned everything, which ended up being

10:09a much better deal for us in the long run.

10:12Another key decision had to be made,

10:14which was who was going to be on TV?

10:17Who was going to be the host?

10:18And it made all the sense in the world

10:21for Dana to be that person.

10:23As you're over, you either cut the weight

10:25in two hours for the commission,

10:27or you quit now and become eliminated.

10:29He said, I'll do it.

10:30And he said, look, this is going to change your life.

10:33Like, things are going to change.

10:35And he goes, I get it, I understand.

10:37But once again,

10:40wanting to win and wanting to be successful was the key.

10:44It was never about becoming famous.

10:46It was about what do we need to do

10:47to make the business work?

10:54We made the decision

10:55that we weren't going to have any announcers,

10:58and we weren't going to cut the fights.

11:00Just whatever happened, happened.

11:02And you don't have anybody in your ear

11:04telling you what's going on.

11:05You're just experiencing this thing.

11:06And I really truly believe,

11:08and that was something Dana felt very strong about,

11:10that was part of the secret sauce

11:12that helped launch the UFC into what it became today.

11:21I've been loyal to the sport of mixed martial arts

11:24since I was 19, and I found it.

11:26And I was a fan of it.

11:27And I said, this is what I want to do.

11:28I love this.

11:30And then I got a call with 17 days notice

11:32to be a replacement

11:34on the first season of The Ultimate Fighter.

11:35I'd never really seen a reality show,

11:38so I didn't really know what it was about.

11:40Some of the crew said,

11:41this might never see the light of day.

11:43I didn't really know what that meant at the time,

11:45but I knew it was bad.

11:47The show did make it to the air in 2005,

11:49and it became an instant ratings hit for Spike.

11:52And it turned White into a reality TV star.

11:55I was there the moment Dana White found his sea legs.

11:58It was the, do you want to be a fucking fighter speech.

12:01Do you want to be a fighter?

12:02That's the question.

12:03That's why I'm here.

12:04It's not about cutting weight.

12:06It's not about living in a fucking house.

12:08It's about, do you want to be a fighter?

12:10It's not all fucking signing autographs

12:12and banging broads when you get out of here.

12:14It's not.

12:15It's no fucking fun, man.

12:16It's a job, just like any other job.

12:18So the question is,

12:19not did you think you had to make weight?

12:21Did you think you had to do this?

12:22Do you want to be a fucking fighter?

12:24That is my question.

12:25And only you know that.

12:27Anybody who says they don't,

12:29I don't fucking want you here.

12:30And I'll throw you the fuck out of this gym

12:32so fucking fast your head will spin.

12:34It's up to you.

12:35I don't care.

12:36Cool?

12:37I love y'all.

12:38That's why you're here.

12:39Have a good night, gentlemen.

12:41To me, White has never stopped being that reality TV star.

12:45In the years since,

12:46he's embraced the attention he gets

12:47from saying outrageous things on camera.

12:50Big deal, the guy sleeping next to you fucking stinks.

12:53He's drunk all night making noise and you can't sleep.

12:55He got fucking roommates.

12:56But with his aggressive promotion,

12:58the UFC took off.

12:59And because it retained 100% ownership rights of its media,

13:03when Spike renewed the show for additional seasons

13:05and eventually broadcasted UFC live events,

13:08its revenues skyrocketed.

13:10It was because of Dana

13:12that we had this incredible talent,

13:15incredible visionary,

13:17as far as understanding and helping to create the product,

13:22and having the street smarts and the toughness

13:25to be able to deal with the fighters and the managers.

13:29Realistically, Dana is the best thing

13:31that ever happened to the sport of mixed martial arts.

13:33So it's kind of easy to be loyal to him.

13:36The UFC developed into something like a cult under White

13:39and its fans developed a cult-like passion for it.

13:42I love you, Dana!

13:44Dana was put on this earth to do what he does,

13:47literally to be the face of the UFC.

13:50I think the fact that he became such a big part of the brand

13:54actually helped the brand

13:56and helped elevate the brand of the UFC,

13:58and that association between the two worked.

14:00His persona, the way he interacts,

14:03and he's taken to it just perfectly

14:07in the way that he runs the press conferences

14:09to doing press.

14:11Listen, Islam knows I love him, man,

14:13but you know how I feel about that.

14:14Jon Jones was undefeated for however many years,

14:18Move all you want,

14:20and fuck you for asking that question.

14:23Go ahead.

14:24By 2010, the company was valued at $2 billion

14:27when it sold a 10% stake to the son

14:30of one of the richest men in Abu Dhabi.

14:32The following year, the UFC landed

14:34a lucrative new broadcast deal with Fox

14:36and the Fertitta Soup began receiving offers

14:38from potential buyers.

14:40The numbers just got so big that we're like,

14:43maybe it does make sense to exit the business

14:46and see kind of where this thing can go from there.

14:49In 2016, the brothers sold the UFC

14:52to WME-IMG, now known as Endeavor,

14:54for more than $4 billion.

14:56White's take, 360 million before taxes.

14:59Even though we love the business

15:01and we're passionate about it,

15:04at the time, the largest deal ever

15:06in the history of sports felt pretty good.

15:09It was a weird time for me.

15:11I didn't want to sell, Lorenzo did,

15:14and it was at the point where Lorenzo

15:17finally had to sit me down and said,

15:19you're my best friend.

15:22I'm done.

15:23I want to move on.

15:24Be happy for me, okay?

15:26And once he put it to me that way,

15:31I understood it better, I guess I would say.

15:33Well, I think it's important for Dana,

15:36even when we exited, to stay on with the UFC

15:38because he was such an integral part of the brand.

15:40He was the face of the business.

15:43And in a lot of ways, he's just irreplaceable.

15:45You can't replace him.

15:47It is what it is.

15:48I mean, Dana is the UFC.

15:50Luckily, Endeavor's CEO, Ari Emanuel,

15:52had been White's agent for years

15:54and told him he could continue running the business

15:56how he wanted.

15:57That choice turned out to be a profitable one

15:59a few years later when the COVID-19 pandemic

16:02shut down the sports world.

16:03All of a sudden, we roll into the scariest time

16:08in my lifetime.

16:09I'm 55, scariest time in my lifetime.

16:12And I'm gonna tell all these people

16:15that have helped me build this business,

16:17I know this is horrible

16:19and I don't know what the future holds,

16:20but I gotta lay, you know, 37% of you off.

16:25Good luck, everybody.

16:27I hope you make it.

16:28Hope you all make it through.

16:30That's never gonna happen here, ever,

16:32under any circumstances.

16:34When the COVID thing happened,

16:36we had the vaccine, right?

16:38If you wanted it, you could take it.

16:40If you didn't, you didn't have to take it.

16:42It was not mandatory here at the UFC

16:44for employees or fighters to be vaccinated.

16:47But if you wanted it, we'd help you get it.

16:50Whichever one you wanted to take, we'd help you get it.

16:52We don't tell grown men and women what to do.

16:55This is a free country

16:56and you can do whatever you wanna do.

16:58White's ideology didn't mix well

17:00with the government mandates at the time.

17:02I own an arena right next door here, right?

17:05So in my hometown,

17:08I don't need to pack the arena or do any of that.

17:10I need a couple fighters.

17:11I need some commission guys.

17:12I need some production people.

17:14And we can beam this thing out all over the world.

17:18We had social distancing and masks

17:20and all the stuff that was going on during that time.

17:23And we would have abided by whatever the standards

17:26and rules were.

17:27And the governor here still wouldn't let me do it.

17:30Nevada's Democratic governor, Steve Sisolak,

17:32squashed the plan and White never forgot.

17:35He can hold a grudge.

17:36If you cross him, scorched earth,

17:40he's just gonna burn you out.

17:41During the next election cycle,

17:42he endorsed and gave money to Sisolak's opponent,

17:45Republican Joe Lombardo, who won a narrow victory.

17:48I can set up on an island.

17:50If there's some infrastructure there

17:51where I can actually do production,

17:53I just need an island or somewhere

17:55where I can put on fights.

17:56Ended up working out a deal in Florida

17:58and ended up working out a deal in Abu Dhabi.

18:01We ran our business through COVID.

18:03Everybody got paid.

18:04We honored every contract

18:06and our business grew something crazy,

18:09like 77% through COVID.

18:12By 2023, the UFC was valued at $12.1 billion.

18:16When you lead your family,

18:20your business, whatever it may be,

18:23you figure out solutions to problems

18:25and you take care of everybody, not just yourself.

18:28I think why people are so attracted to Dana,

18:31whether just from a friendship standpoint

18:34or people wanna follow him,

18:36that's why he's such a great leader.

18:37He's just got this halo about him

18:39or something about him that he's so likable.

18:42He can literally hold court

18:44and entertain like nothing you've ever seen.

18:47In December of 2024, I joined White in Las Vegas

18:51for the days leading up to UFC 310.

18:53And I saw firsthand the swagger Lorenzo referred to

18:57when White was holding court at a Baccarat table

18:59in the high roller room of the Fountain Blue Casino.

19:02Welcome to the after party.

19:04People are relentless in his presence,

19:07going as far as to pitch him their products

19:09in between bets.

19:11And these are not small bets.

19:13He's betting $300,000 a hand and winning.

19:16After a few hands, he casually calls it a night.

19:22Honestly, I was in shock,

19:24especially with how nonchalant his reaction was.

19:27I mean, he told me he basically does this every night,

19:29even when he's not surrounded by the cameras

19:32and the internet creators he's trying to impress

19:34on the night before UFC 310.

19:44So what are you watching for when you watch these fights?

19:47So one of the big things

19:49when people watch me watching the fights,

19:50they're like, this guy's got the best seat in the house

19:52and all he's looking at is the screen.

19:55Because whatever's going on inside the octagon,

19:59I can't control.

20:00That's up to the fighters and whatever.

20:03I'm looking at the broadcast

20:03and things that I like and don't like.

20:04My team's so freaking good.

20:06There's a red phone.

20:07Very rarely do I have to pick up that red phone

20:10and do anything.

20:11But yeah, that's when I'm there.

20:13I'm there watching the production.

20:17Good to see you, buddy.

20:18Hi, buddy.

20:18And what about the crowd reaction, I guess?

20:21Are you judging the pop that we'll get on there?

20:23Nah, we don't really do that.

20:25I mean, that's determined by where you are

20:29and how big the fight is

20:31and what the fight means that night.

20:34It's always good.

20:36It's always good when you get the pop,

20:39but it's not everything in the moment at that time of night.

20:43But we do look, yeah.

20:45We do look at stuff like that.

20:47If a guy low down on the prelims gets noticed

20:51and gets a pop that you don't expect,

20:56then yeah, then that means something to us.

20:59You know what I mean?

21:01Okay.

21:01What about this first fight?

21:03What do you mean?

21:04This first fight that we're watching.

21:05What are we looking for?

21:06Yeah, so normally this spot in the prelims,

21:10the spot in the prelims, the opening spot,

21:14is what we think is gonna be the most exciting fight.

21:17So you wanna open the show with a bang.

21:20It's hard to imagine any other scene

21:22where you're gonna be in the ring

21:23with a bang.

21:24It's hard to imagine any other CEO

21:26or sports league commissioner

21:28getting that kind of reaction from a crowd.

21:30There's no doubt that he's UFC's biggest star,

21:34but that doesn't stop him from interacting with his fans.

21:36Yes, sir.

21:37You're the greatest fan of the world.

21:38Thank you, brother.

21:39I love everything you do.

21:41Thank you so much.

21:41Thank you, sir.

21:42I appreciate it.

21:44White knows his audience and he knows how to reach them.

21:47He's curated a maniverse of bro-heavy creators

21:50and podcasters like Theo Vaughn,

21:52who line the front row of every UFC fight.

21:55Yeah, we're gonna get you fucking troublemakers

21:57out of here.

21:57Yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:58White's ringside throne is like a little command center.

22:03So this is the backbone?

22:04This bone right here, I pick it up

22:06and it rings directly to the truck,

22:07to the guy who's producing the show.

22:09If there's something that I don't like

22:12or have to talk to him or whatever.

22:15Chase says that in a pay-per-view,

22:17he wants the first fight to be the exciting one.

22:20You're sticking that so that the people

22:21that pay for it are like,

22:22I actually want to wrap this.

22:24There's a pacing, you know?

22:26If you look at this,

22:28so we start out on the prelims, right?

22:31And these are people that are making their way up.

22:34This is on ESPN2.

22:36So you want to open ESPN2 with a great fight

22:39and you want the main event,

22:41which would be the main event, to be good.

22:43Now you're coming into the pay-per-view,

22:45you want the pay-per-view to open with a bang

22:47and then the main event, hopefully, to deliver, too.

22:49You want everything to deliver,

22:51but you want to set yourself up for success.

22:55This fight should be crazy.

22:57There are no guarantees in life,

22:59but if I had to bet, I would bet anything

23:01that that fight's going to be absolutely crazy.

23:04This is going to ruin it for me.

23:05My first UFC I've ever been here, you know?

23:08It's your first one?

23:09In person, in person.

23:10I've watched you.

23:12For it to be sitting right here for the first one is,

23:15here we go.

23:17At one point, White just started reading a text

23:20that he got to me.

23:21And I was, at first, like, what is he doing?

23:23But he seemed very, very excited to read it.

23:26There are many bigger problems in the world right now

23:28that need to be fixed.

23:30I'll catch the next fight.

23:31Tell Joe Rogan I said hi, Donald J. Trump.

23:34There you go.

23:36It was pretty surreal to realize

23:38that the future president was so interested in a UFC fight.

23:41And it made me think about how this little orbit

23:43around White now includes people like the president,

23:46several billionaires, and even the most popular podcaster

23:50on the planet, Joe Rogan.

23:51You know, Joe's podcast was always big,

23:54but then I think everything that's happened

23:57over the last five or six years,

23:59and the way certain people have dealt with it,

24:03has led us to where we are today.

24:06You know what I mean?

24:06I mean, the thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around

24:09is like, you're guys little, like,

24:11through.

24:12And how that is now, you guys are like in the center

24:15of the culture, almost, you know?

24:18It's the center of politics,

24:20and holding your fingers in all these different places,

24:23but you guys are doing a lot of the same things

24:24your mom does.

24:25You know, you and Lorenzo, Joe Rogan,

24:28I mean, all these guys are kind of like,

24:31just moved into the center of everything that's going on.

24:35It's fascinating.

24:35It wasn't by design.

24:38It all just sort of happened,

24:39and I think that all of us,

24:42what we all have is onward.

24:44We've all stayed, like I was telling you earlier,

24:48everything in life right now is about authenticity.

24:50Who's authentic, who's real, who's whatever.

24:53We've always stayed true to who we are

24:55and what we believe,

24:57and no matter what type of pressure was out there,

25:00we never folded to any of that.

25:02We just stayed to our core beliefs and values

25:05and who we are, not only as people,

25:08but as a business and as a court

25:11and as a podcaster and Lorenzo as a business owner.

25:17It also seems like there's an element of like,

25:20loyalty and sticking together,

25:22and everyone's like, I support you, you support me.

25:25A lot of that.

25:26I mean, we are all viciously loyal to each other.

25:31It's had a symbiotic sort of relationship,

25:32you know, as you, one side's resident,

25:34we're saying, help the other one.

25:36If you don't have loyalty,

25:38what do you have?

25:39Right?

25:40What do you have if you don't have loyalty?

25:42White actually told me at one point

25:44that his personal politics were right in the middle

25:46and even leaning left,

25:48which seems crazy because when you hear him talk,

25:50you can't help but notice a lot of MAGA language.

25:53You know, I don't want to be overly political about it,

25:55but when this whole woke movement started

25:58and they started going after people,

26:00I mean, they went after Joe Rogan too.

26:02I was like, you know, it's gonna happen.

26:06Yeah.

26:07And then you start talking about sponsors

26:09and all that other kind of stuff.

26:10And my thing has always been,

26:11listen, we love sponsors.

26:12We love having sponsors,

26:14but I'm at a point in my life and my career

26:16where I want to be aligned with my sponsors.

26:19I don't want, and I found out through COVID

26:21who I was aligned with and who I wasn't.

26:23There were people coming out of COVID

26:26that couldn't pay me enough

26:28to get back in business with them.

26:30They didn't have enough money to pay me

26:33to do one more day of business with them.

26:35I wouldn't do it.

26:37Life is too short to deal with that bullshit.

26:40Ladies and gentlemen,

26:43we are live!

26:50The T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas for UFC 310.

26:59Wow.

27:00Wow.

27:04What's up, buddy?

27:05What's up, man?

27:06Oh my God, did you hear that thud?

27:16At this point, White has near total control

27:19over every aspect of the UFC and its fighters.

27:22When you are a fighter and you're on the posters,

27:26there's some equity there.

27:28They need you.

27:29That's a good thing, right?

27:30And you have to trust that the UFC

27:35wants what's best for you,

27:37wants what's best for your brand,

27:38and that your goals align.

27:41Not all former UFC fighters feel that way.

27:44There's a pair of antitrust class action lawsuits

27:46against the UFC for suppressing fighter pay.

27:49The first case got settled in October for $375 million,

27:53but remember, this is a company

27:54that made $1.3 billion in revenue last year.

27:57In the meantime, White launched a new venture

27:59in late 2022 with the Fertittas and with Craig Poligian,

28:02hoping to use the same blueprint they did

28:04with the UFC for Power Slap,

28:07a league in which contestants take turns

28:08open-hand slapping each other into oblivion.

28:15We have this partnership,

28:17and it's only been a couple years,

28:19and the thing is just exploding in popularity.

28:22It's very similar to what we experienced in the UFC,

28:26where once you get the momentum going,

28:28we know we have a fan base, we have a global fan base,

28:31and we're just gonna start expanding this around the globe,

28:34and we really think it is the next big thing in sports.

28:39It grew much quicker than UFC did.

28:43I mean, we have more sponsors now for Power Slap

28:46than we had 10 years into the UFC.

28:48Power Slap already has 35 sponsors

28:50and a media rights deal

28:51with conservative-leaning live-streaming platform Rumble.

28:54White says the league receives $2.5 million per event

28:57in site fees and earned $4.5 million

29:00from a branded mobile game.

29:01Forbes estimates the company had $50 million

29:04in 2024, just its second year of existence.

29:08If you built this incredible business,

29:10then you had the chance to go back and do it all again,

29:13and it's almost identically the same.

29:16It's what I'm getting right now with Power Slap,

29:18so it's been really fun for me.

29:19Videos of the brutal knockouts

29:20have drawn millions of views on social media

29:22and plenty of critics.

29:24The Brain Injury Association of America

29:26wrote an open letter to Nevada's Athletic Commission

29:29calling the nation's sport, quote,

29:30Nothing short of watching traumatic brain injury happen

29:33to its participants in real time.

29:36People are laughing at us.

29:37People are saying, this isn't a real sport.

29:39People are saying, nobody's ever gonna put this on TV.

29:42Nobody will ever sponsor you.

29:43But I think that's when Davis had his best.

29:46It's when people question and people say, you can't do this.

29:50That's when he's at his best,

29:52and he's gonna build slap into something

29:55that rivals the size of the UFC.

29:58When everybody's saying how horrible it is

29:59and this and that and everything else,

30:01you know you got something good.

30:03You know you got it.

30:04In the 2000s, he used reality TV to launch the UFC.

30:08Now he's finding his core demographic online,

30:10building relationships with influential internet creators.

30:13He gambles with them.

30:14He gives them front row seats to fights.

30:16He offers free reign to mingle

30:18and create whatever content they want,

30:20and they do it for free.

30:22Power Slap spends less than $25,000 per event in marketing.

30:25You told me that you feel like you're ahead

30:28of everyone else, or no one else is catching up

30:30to kind of mobilizing internet creators for your businesses.

30:35Yeah, I wouldn't say that other people aren't doing it.

30:37They're just not doing it at the level that we are.

30:40Listen, I see a day, not too long from here,

30:43when the whole media section is gone.

30:46You know, there is no media section.

30:48We bring media in and we could host them up

30:50in the suites or whatever,

30:51but it's gonna be all about the influencers.

30:53And I guess like what material impact

30:56do you feel like that's had on either of your businesses?

30:58But it seems like Power Slap especially,

31:00that's kind of like a core tenet of the strategy, no?

31:02A hundred percent, yeah.

31:03I mean, when you're building something from scratch,

31:05if you look at how long,

31:06I told you this a couple of times or a couple of days ago,

31:10when you look at building a brand new business like this

31:13and what it took 10 years to do in the UFC,

31:16we've done in less than two years with Power Slap.

31:18But the world is different than it was in 2001.

31:22The internet, social media, you know, these influencers,

31:26the list goes on and on.

31:27And in order to connect with them,

31:28because I feel like movie studios,

31:30everyone wants like, oh, let's get the influencers,

31:32let's get the young people,

31:33but to connect with them requires like a level of like

31:36being one of them, speaking their language,

31:38hanging out with them.

31:39It seems like that's something that you've done well.

31:40Well, it's a level of authenticity is what it is.

31:42So as I started to do this and we started connecting

31:45and doing things with different businesses

31:47associated either with the UFC or Power Slap,

31:50they're like, well, they're gonna have to do this many posts

31:52and they have, no, you don't tell them what to do.

31:56You bring them in and you let them do what they do.

31:59They're really creative

32:00and they know how to create the right content.

32:04I'm 55 years old, I'm gonna tell a bunch of, you know,

32:0620 year old kids how to, no, they know what they're doing.

32:09That's why they're as big as they are.

32:10You don't tell them what to do.

32:11You don't put any restraints on them or a list of demands.

32:16You just bring them in and let them be authentic.

32:19The other kind of element of that is

32:21I've been able to witness a little bit of like

32:23the whirlwind or hurricane that surrounds you.

32:25We saw that last night, I guess,

32:27in the gaming room as well.

32:28But when these creators come up to you,

32:30you make sure to like, you know,

32:31make them feel really welcome.

32:32Like, oh man, thank you for coming

32:34and all that sort of thing.

32:36I guess-

32:36Well, I mean it.

32:37I mean, when you think about these kids,

32:39these kids come in and, you know,

32:42they spend their own money.

32:44You know, they create this content.

32:46You know, we have a very mutual beneficial relationship.

32:50You know, I bring them in

32:51and it takes them to a whole nother level.

32:53They come in and do what they do and make us younger

32:56and create incredible content around our businesses.

33:01During the last election cycle,

33:02White really turned that same marketing engine

33:05toward Donald Trump.

33:06He set Trump up on podcasts with creators like Theo Vaughn,

33:09the Nelk Boys, Barstool Sports,

33:11and eventually Joe Rogan,

33:12which turned out a demographic famously resistant

33:15to voter turnout efforts.

33:16The world is an ugly place

33:18and there's conflicts going on

33:20all around the world all the time.

33:22We don't tell grown men and women what to do,

33:25what to say, what to believe in.

33:27Never once through my whole Trump thing

33:29have I ever told any of my employees,

33:31not only do I tell my employees who to vote for,

33:35we don't even go, hey guys, it's November.

33:38Get out there and vote.

33:39You're all grown men and women.

33:41If you want to go vote, go vote.

33:42If you don't want to vote, don't vote.

33:44Obviously Trump's ability to dominate news cycles

33:46and get his message out there

33:49led to his election.

33:49But White has proven that the same pugnaciousness

33:52and tribalism can be an ascendant business model.

33:55And he's taken it mainstream.

33:56The UFC is now bigger in America

33:58than golf or hockey in cultural resonance

34:00and soon in television money.

34:02People laughed at us in the UFC,

34:04said this will never be bigger than boxing.

34:07This will never work.

34:08This will never be on TV.

34:10All of this, this will never happen.

34:12Sponsors will never, never sponsor you.

34:15Now look at it today.

34:17We believed that this would work all over the world

34:20and it has.

34:20And we are the biggest pay-per-view provider in the world.

34:24We're in over a billion homes worldwide

34:26on some form of television.

34:28But when you look at what the ceiling for this business is,

34:31there's 8 billion people in the world.

34:33So I believe that if I put the right fight

34:35on in the right place with the right guys,

34:38you could get 8 billion people to watch a fight, I believe.

34:42Doubt Dana White at your own risk.

34:44I mean, this is a guy who was teaching boxing classes

34:47and now sits a row behind former presidents

34:49at the inauguration and is on the meta board of directors.

34:53It's hard to imagine what the UFC will look like one day

34:56when he finally steps away.

34:57The UFC is a sport and a franchise and a business

35:00that will go on long after I'm gone.

35:03It'll just be different.

35:05The way that this company was built

35:07and how it's run right now are by my philosophies

35:10of what I think about fighting,

35:12what I think about matchmaking

35:13and many other things.

35:15And then there will be somebody else here

35:17who will have other philosophies and ideas

35:19and it will just be different.

35:21But the UFC will go on forever.

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