Bobby Manning welcomes NBA trainer Drew Hanlen whose new book Stop Bulls****ing Yourself describes, in part, his work with Jayson Tatum on his way to becoming a Celtics champion. They'll discuss Tatum's season and more.
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00:00Hard hat's all about showing up to play hard, doing what it takes to win.
00:07If you want to cement legacy, win another.
00:09He's your third center.
00:10You don't want to pump him up too much, but it's hard not to.
00:14This is maybe the most I've ever agreed with you.
00:19Hey, Bobby Manning here.
00:23Welcome to the Garn Report, Monday edition, afternoon edition here.
00:28We have a great guest on, Drew Hanlon, going to join us in just a second here.
00:33We get Celtics heat tonight as well down here in Miami, hence the hat.
00:39Quick one to get this out of the way, prize picks, of course, I bet a lot of people had
00:44fun on prize picks last night with the big game, but basketball season's still on here
00:48and they still will give you $50 instantly when you play $5.
00:53Head over there to prize picks.
00:55Basketball season, an all-star weekend specifically, which I'm going to be at.
00:59A great time to go over to prize picks, the best place to win cash while watching your
01:04favorite players during the game and the Saturday night events.
01:08Jason Tatum's going to be out there, Jalen Brown as well.
01:11The three-point contest is going on.
01:13No Peyton Pritchard, as he just told us, across the street here in Miami, but a lot of fun
01:19action going on over in San Francisco.
01:21Again, we'll have coverage of that and plenty of opportunities to pick more or less on your
01:26favorite players over there and for the rest of this basketball season.
01:29Again, use that code CLNS, get $50 instantly for all-star weekend.
01:34This weekend coming up, just a couple of Celtics games left as well before that over on prize
01:39picks.
01:40Download that today.
01:41Prize picks, run your game.
01:44Today we are talking to NBA skills trainer, Drew Hanlon, who I've wanted to have on the
01:52show here for a long time.
01:54He has a great event coming up in Boston tomorrow, but tonight he's in Philadelphia.
02:00Welcome in, Drew.
02:01How are you doing?
02:02Great to have you here.
02:03Great, man.
02:04I'm trying to stay warm.
02:05You got a hat on, you know what I mean?
02:06I'm over here just bundled up and stuff like that.
02:10I'm jealous of you being in Miami for sure.
02:13Yeah, it's been long awaited on the schedule here and there's another one next month.
02:17I'm going to be pushing my boss to send me the next one as well, but I always enjoy it
02:22here.
02:23I always love this trip.
02:24This is always the one I got circled on my calendar.
02:28Great to have you here, Drew.
02:30Tonight, event coming up in Philly, but the big one's Boston tomorrow.
02:33I was just asking you off air, is it out there yet?
02:36The special guest who's going to be there?
02:37I guess you couldn't keep it secret for too long, could you?
02:40Well, it was funny because I put special guest in Boston, said Celtics fans, and then on
02:45the cover, it might have Joel Embiid and Jason Tatum.
02:50People that knew how to do any bits of investigating were quickly to find out who the special guest
02:56would be.
02:57I'm super excited for it.
02:59To be honest with you, I'm doing a book signing in Philadelphia with some of my guys tonight,
03:02which will be really fun for the Sixers fans just to be able to connect and sign stuff.
03:07I'm going to St. Louis on Wednesday, which will be fun to see family and friends and
03:11people that I grew up with.
03:13The highlight's going to be tomorrow night, Tuesday night.
03:17We're going to Studio B at TD Gardens.
03:22Just a great event planned.
03:23We've been spending the last two weeks digging through old content, high school content,
03:29pre-draft content, the ultimate Holy Grail.
03:33We've never shared the Kobe Bryant content, the workout.
03:38There was a workout with Kobe.
03:39We know about it, but we don't really know what it looks like.
03:42I'm really excited to not only share some never-before-seen content, but also to have
03:48some untold stories and conversations that have been off the record for years that Celtics
03:54fans will love.
03:56I think people will just get to see the true behind-the-scenes, the stuff that they always
04:01wonder about, they'll actually get to hear about.
04:05I told you off-camera, I said I really do think that everyone that attends will be in
04:09heaven and everyone that doesn't, when they start hearing all the stuff that was trickled
04:14around during that event, they'll be like, I should have went.
04:17I just didn't know what it was all about.
04:20I'm really excited for tomorrow night and just really excited for the book launch in
04:23general.
04:24It's cool.
04:25In a couple hours, I get to see my book in a Barnes & Noble for the first time, which
04:28has been a long process writing the book, but I'm super excited for that moment as well.
04:34Yeah, I think I heard you were doing it a couple years ago, we were chatting and I was
04:37like, all right, is it ready?
04:38Is it ready?
04:39Is it ready?
04:40And you're doing all your stuff, you're doing all your training, everything like that.
04:44How did you find the time?
04:45It was hard.
04:46To be honest with you, everyone asked me like, oh, you had a ghostwriter and I'm like, no.
04:50I hired somebody originally to ghostwrite and what I realized quickly was I wanted it
04:55to be in my voice.
04:56I wanted it to be in my tone and so I had a gentleman that helped coach me along the
05:01way as far as helping making sure everything was set the right way and we wanted to make
05:07sure that everything would flow together and it was no different than me.
05:11I always say that I'm in the background helping these guys try to get results, but it's ultimately
05:16them that are getting the results.
05:18Whether it's the work they put in, the work they don't put in, the results are going to
05:21show.
05:22It was a long process just because I wanted to make sure that the book was readable, which
05:31a lot of basketball players do not read books.
05:33So I was like, the first thing is I wanted to make it very simple, very short section
05:38so that you can pick it up, put it down, pick it up, put it down.
05:42Second thing is I want it to be very direct.
05:44I did not want it to be like a story that could be 500 words, be 3,000 words and so
05:50I kept trimming the fat and making it shorter and shorter out of respect of the reader's
05:55time.
05:56Then the third thing is I wanted it to be something that actually drove action.
06:00There's a lot of books that people pick up and they don't get inspired right away or
06:04they don't get motivated right away and they never finish the book.
06:07There's also some books that you pick up and you like and you say, oh, that was a good
06:09book, but you don't change because of it.
06:13Throughout the book, I actually have prompts that you're doing and filling out as you go
06:16on in the book so that not only are you getting to hear some of these untold MBA stories,
06:22but also you're getting to hear stories about entrepreneurs and moms and dads and other
06:27people that have completely altered their health, their finances, their businesses,
06:34whatever it is that they want to change and it gives you that same system so that you
06:38actually identify the changes you want to make and then build out the blueprint to actually
06:43make those things a reality.
06:45I'm really excited for not only these book launch events, but really six to nine months
06:49from now when I start hearing how people use this exact system that helped a ton of MBA
06:55All-Stars use to improve their games, but also use these things to improve their businesses,
07:00their relationships with their kids or spouses and their weight, et cetera.
07:05That's what I'm really looking forward to.
07:07Yeah.
07:08And the event's tomorrow about seven o'clock, like you said, Studio B there, TD Garden.
07:13I think you said about 40 spots left.
07:14I just threw the link in the chat there for anyone who wants to sign up, go there, get
07:19a free book as well, attending here.
07:22Yeah, basically it's like the cost of a book and you get to get this awesome event as well.
07:28I just wanted to do it to connect.
07:29Boston fans have been so welcoming from the jump.
07:33They knew that I worked with Jason ever since he was in high school.
07:37There are obviously some trolls that tell me each and every game exactly what we need
07:42to be doing better with Jason.
07:44But for the most part, the Southska fans have always been super supportive of the work that
07:49I do with Jay.
07:50I'm excited to connect with them.
07:53Yeah.
07:54And we'll get to Jason, his season so far.
07:56I think that's what people want to hear about a little bit.
07:58But I want to get in your journey, since I haven't interviewed you before.
08:01So this system you're talking about, this training method you do with your players and
08:07just your whole career at this point, coming out of college 2012, did you expect this was
08:12going to be your career?
08:14What were you thinking when you got out of school?
08:16What were some of your aspirations?
08:18How did this method start to develop once you figured out, all right, this is what I
08:22want to do?
08:23To be honest with you, I did at that point, because I started training Brad Beal when
08:28he was a freshman in high school.
08:30I was a senior in high school.
08:31Part of the story a lot of people don't realize is we were actually training together.
08:35So it wasn't like me, coach, him, player.
08:37It was like us both as players training together.
08:40And Brad averaged eight points a game as a freshman in high school.
08:43And after that first summer of us working out together, his second game of his sophomore
08:47year, he scored, I think, 51 or 52 points.
08:50And everyone was like, what did you do that summer?
08:52And he was like, I trained with Drew.
08:54And that's when I started realizing like, wow, if I can teach players how to work, you
08:59know, with purpose, you know, work on the right things, we can really get results.
09:04And so that led me to working with, you know, a couple other really good players around
09:07the St. Louis area, one of them being Jason Tatum, one of them being David Lee.
09:12And I started working with David as a, you know, as I think it was a sophomore in college.
09:18And so I remember I had a dinner with Steph Curry right after he had signed his $44 million
09:24deal.
09:25It was like four year, $44 million deal.
09:26That was back when he had the ankle injuries.
09:28And so like, he just wanted the security.
09:30And he took us all out to Cheesecake Factory to celebrate.
09:33And we're sitting there and David Lee was like, he's like, hey, Steph, are you going
09:37to go to your brother's opening night game against Drew?
09:41And he's like, I didn't know you coached college ball because he thought that I was,
09:45you know, a coach.
09:46And he's like, no, no, no, no.
09:47He plays for Belmont and they're opening up his senior season at Duke.
09:51So Drew is going to be guarding Seth and, you know, we should go to the game.
09:57And I remember him like pausing for a second, he's like, timeout, wait, you still play college
10:02basketball?
10:03And he's like, David, well, first of all, why would you ever listen to a mid-major college
10:07basketball player?
10:08And David said something that was so powerful at the time.
10:11He was like, listen, Phil Jackson can't beat Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or Shaquille
10:16O'Neal in one-on-one.
10:18He's not better than any of those guys, but he can make them better versions of himself.
10:22And he's like, I'm better than Drew.
10:24Obviously, I'm an NBA All-Star, but Drew makes me a better version of myself.
10:29And that gave me a big vote of confidence in, you don't have to be an NBA player to
10:34help make NBA players better.
10:36And, you know, I've poured the last two decades of my life into studying film, studying analytics,
10:42you know, studying psychology so that you can not only improve their skills, but also
10:46improve their confidence, help them get over the insecurities and the doubts that, you
10:50know, everybody has, both players and people.
10:54And you know, it's been a fun journey, but I never really had a plan.
10:57It was never like, oh, you're going to train all these NBA All-Stars.
11:00It was more so just like everybody that steps on a court with you, try to get them as good
11:05as you can, whether it's a, you know, a kid picking up a basketball for the first time,
11:09trying to fall in love with the game, or whether it's an NBA All-Star that is trying to become
11:13an MVP or a champion, like it doesn't matter to me, I'm going to pour into that player.
11:17And you know, there's no such thing as a perfect training program.
11:21The goal is just to constantly try things out, if they're working, do more of what's
11:26working.
11:27If they're not, do less of what's not.
11:28And then just constantly refine the process until you, you know, get the results that
11:32you're after.
11:33I've been very pleased with the results that a lot of my guys have gotten.
11:38You know, one of the things that we always talk about, though, is there's always another
11:41level.
11:42And so we're constantly seeking out ways to improve and enhance your game so they can
11:46reach those levels that they haven't touched before.
11:48Do you remember the first time you met Jason?
11:52I do.
11:53Yeah.
11:54Like, I mean, I know in the starting five doc in the Netflix series, you know, like
11:57they kind of touched on the relationship, you know, Brandy had reached out to me and
12:02asked me to work out.
12:03Originally, I said no.
12:04You know, he's like, I think he was in eighth grade at the time and they called in Brad
12:08Beal and were like, hey, Brad, you know, can you get your trainer to like give Jason a
12:13shot? And, you know, I remember that first workout, Jason, you know, in his forward in
12:18the book actually talks about it.
12:19He's like, I had to leave the gym a couple of times to throw up, you know, he did.
12:23He was like, and he's 13 years old at the time or whatever, you know, freshman in high
12:26school is. And so, you know, that that moment stuck out with me.
12:31And I the only thing that I really remember is I remember him coming.
12:35I remember him, you know, going outside.
12:36I do remember him going outside.
12:38I don't remember him throwing up. I remember him like saying he needed drinks
12:41constantly, which then he told me he's like, I didn't want to tell you I was going to
12:43throw up because I wanted you to take me on as a client.
12:47But I do remember the phone call I got from his mom and his aunt had brought him to the
12:51gym and his mom had called me a couple of, you know, 15 minutes later and was like,
12:54you'll love this. And and the quote that kind of went viral from the documentary was
12:58like, she really did. She's like, Jason said, like, mama, y'all are going to have to
13:01carry me off the court before I gave up.
13:03And that I mean, that stands out.
13:05You know what I mean? Like when you're a kid, a freshman in high school and you're
13:08just working to that pace, it just shows you that he had something different that, you
13:13know, most kids his age just don't have.
13:15What were you guys doing? They were throwing up a couple of times.
13:20Like to me, I don't think people realize that, like, I don't just take on everybody as
13:24a client. Like, I am very selective.
13:26You want to see what he was made of.
13:27That's all I wanted. And to be honest with you, if you if you don't love basketball, you
13:33can't push through times that are are where you're up against the wall.
13:37Once you hit the wall, you get stuck on the wall.
13:39And so I want to see guys that find figure out ways to mentally and emotionally get
13:44beyond that wall, whether it's, you know, figuring out ways to keep going and whether
13:48it's figuring out ways to tap into that like extra gear, whether it's figuring out
13:52ways to shut your your mind up, no matter how much it's telling you to give up and
13:57give in. And, you know, that's the first thing I always do is I always test players
14:02mentally. And, you know, that's that's actually the funniest thing that I always get a
14:05kick out of out of trolls is like trolls on Twitter and and Instagram.
14:10They think like I'm like a rebounder and a yes man, because I do.
14:13I constantly promote my guys.
14:15I'm constantly, you know, if somebody's hating on them, I'm backing them up for with
14:18facts and stats to, you know, help my client's case.
14:22But I'm like, I'm probably the most hated guy in their life most of time.
14:26Like my slogan is hate me now.
14:28Thank me later. And most of the time they hate that.
14:31I'm, you know, constantly tell them, do more, do more, do more.
14:34And that's what makes it fun.
14:37You know what I mean? Like I remember there was a game where Joel Embiid had fifty nine
14:42and he FaceTime me right after the game, you know, in the locker room and was like,
14:47you know, just waiting for me to be like, good job.
14:49And I was like, couldn't even get 60.
14:51And then when he got the 70 against Wemby, he called me and it was just like middle
14:55finger up. Like, like, you know what I mean?
14:57And I was like, anniversary of Kobe's 80.
14:59You couldn't get the you couldn't get an ADP like, and he's just like, shut up.
15:03Like, I'm not even taking criticism after that 70 point game, you know, but it's
15:07that's what it is, you know, and it's fun because like Jason was a championship.
15:12And what do you do? You celebrate that night because he's poured in, you know, so
15:16much hard work and so many sacrifices along the way.
15:20But then it's like you did it once now and now you can do it again.
15:23Like, you know, how many would it take to put you in those all time conversations?
15:26Like, that's just the mentality is always another level.
15:29And so, yeah, I think that's that's the key is just constantly seeking out ways.
15:34And it's not going to be perfect.
15:36Development never is.
15:37Improvement never is. It's not a straight line.
15:39But, you know, we're constantly trying to get better and better.
15:42And that's that's the goal.
15:44One of the things you said you describe in the book here is encouraging a school
15:47Tatum to become more of an asshole.
15:50I still would not describe Tatum as an asshole, but has he become more of an
15:55asshole as the years have gone on?
15:57Of course, like like we're no dummies.
15:59Like I love when people are like hitting me up and like, oh, just tell Jason to be
16:03more aggressive. I'm like, what do you not think we know the numbers like we know
16:07the numbers when his usage is, you know, over 30, like they've won like what is
16:11a 51 and three over the last 54 or something like that?
16:14Like, trust me, we would love if the offense ran through zero every single night.
16:18And but the goal is to win a championship.
16:21And so for him, you know, he doesn't want to step on teammates toes.
16:24He wants to listen to the coach.
16:25He wants to be contribute to winning.
16:28And, you know, as much criticism as Jason got during the finals last year, you know,
16:33for really just one thing, the only thing that he was really struggling with was
16:37highly contested off the dribble threes.
16:40He shot those at like 11 percent, even the other threes outside of the highly
16:44contested off the dribble threes.
16:45I think he was at like 38 percent.
16:47So it's really just those threes that were off.
16:50He led his team in points and rebounds and assist on his way to a dominating
16:55playoff run by the Celtics.
16:57And we still had so many people criticizing him.
17:01And again, I agree with some of the criticism, like, you know, there's times
17:04where, you know, a smaller defender will switch on to him and I'm like, Jay, don't
17:08settle for the step back, get downhill like that's you know what I mean?
17:10He can't stop you.
17:11You've worked so hard to improve your strength and physicality, like just get
17:14downhill. And then there's other times where people don't understand that there's,
17:20you know, games within the games that they're playing.
17:22You know what I mean? Like I remember back in the day, people used to always just
17:25tell like, you know, Joelle, like, why don't you just stand right underneath the
17:29basket, catch it and dunk it every time?
17:32You guys not realize in 2002, they actually changed the rules where now you can zone
17:35defense and you can double and you can gap like it wasn't like that when Shaq was
17:39playing, when Shaq was dominating, the rules where you had to be above the free
17:42throw line. If your guy was above the free throw line, if you came in double, you
17:44had a full double, you couldn't stunt and be in the gap.
17:47And so like, so they don't, they don't understand how that stuff changes.
17:50You know, same thing we criticize all the time for, you know, the Celtics encouraging
17:54him to eliminate a lot of the mid range shots.
17:58But that has led to his efficiency being at an all time high, which helps the team,
18:02you know? And so as a guy that grew up loving MJ and as Jason grew up loving Kobe,
18:08like we love the art of the mid range shot.
18:10And we do agree that there is a place for it when you just need a basket.
18:14We do agree that you shouldn't settle for contested, highly contested threes.
18:18And we agree with all that kind of stuff.
18:21But, you know, he's modernized his game to really help his team win.
18:24And that's all that matters.
18:25You know what I mean? He's every year it seems like they're in the Eastern Conference
18:28finals. You know, they've been to two finals.
18:30They won one. That's the goal is to hang banners in Boston.
18:33And so, you know, the team gives us a lot of feedback.
18:37We look at analytics and we look at film and then we're constantly trying to just
18:41refine his game so that we can hopefully, you know,
18:43help the Celtics hang another banner at some point.
18:47Yeah. What is that dynamic like? Because I'm sure when you started training him,
18:50you didn't expect him to be shooting, you know, 10 threes a game or, you know,
18:53wherever that is right now. And, you know,
18:55being the kind of brunt of a lot of pressure defenses take on him and all the
18:59different things that he's kind of transitioned into over the last couple of
19:02years here, you mentioned the usage thing too. You know,
19:05I asked him about that earlier in the year. I'm like, you know,
19:08when you look at numbers like that, is it kind of feel like, all right,
19:11I need to take over more.
19:12I need to do more given that the numbers are what they are when his usage goes up
19:17and the record's not great when the usage goes down.
19:19I know that's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy a little bit,
19:22because obviously if he's making shots and all of that,
19:26the usage is going to go up. And, you know,
19:28if the shots aren't going in or there's just not the stats,
19:31the usage is going to go down,
19:32but it is so stark that you wonder like, all right,
19:36how do you avoid going into that takeover mode when obviously they want him to be
19:41more amicable and getting guys involved in all that too.
19:44And that's obviously a part of his game that's improved so much and is, you know,
19:48impactful too.
19:49But everybody watches the MSG game the other night and they're like, whoa,
19:53like this, this is what we like to see,
19:56but you got to keep guys involved too. So from your perspective,
20:00how have you struck that balance in terms of his approach?
20:03Yeah. I mean, I mean, to be honest with you,
20:04the first thing is, you know,
20:05what the team wants him to do is the most important thing. And, you know,
20:08I'm not one of those guys that goes against a team.
20:10Obviously we always consult together and stuff like that. But you know,
20:14years ago, you know, if you look at his rookie season, you know,
20:18his mid range, especially long twos were very high.
20:21And that was one of the first things that when we met with the Celtics after
20:24the season to kind of prepare for that summer was like, Hey,
20:26we got to like eliminate those or like minimize those. And so we did a lot of
20:31drills to do that. You know, is there a place for him? Yes.
20:34Especially in the playoffs, especially when you just need a bucket. But I mean,
20:38the game winner he had against New Orleans, you know,
20:42Was good. But again, even that one, he made, and I was like, Hey,
20:45let's try to get more on balance shots. You know, I love the,
20:48I think it was a game before where he he went down and was it maybe
20:53Cleveland or something like that,
20:54where he drove down and got the right hand layup all the way to the basket.
20:56I'm like you know, I was like, that to me is like the ultimate Holy grail.
21:01Like if you can, you know, basically size up your defender,
21:05obviously the floor has to be properly spaced and then use his handles,
21:08his hang dribble and get downhill. And if they do cut that off,
21:11then you can slam the brakes and then get to, you know,
21:14shot fakes or on balance mid range shots. We love that. You know what I mean?
21:18But I mean, I think that it's funny,
21:21just the amount of criticism that he gets. Like, if you go look at the numbers,
21:25like that's what I always tell people. It's like, I'm like, they're, you know,
21:27when you realize like everything's out there, you know,
21:30like he's 26 years old and he's put together a hall of fame,
21:34first ballot hall of fame career already. It's been first team, all NBA,
21:37everything that you get people all the time that are like, he should fire you.
21:41Drew, you suck. And I'm like, yes. After,
21:44after leading your team in points rebounds and assist on your way to a
21:46championship,
21:47after being named first team all NBA for three seasons in a row on his way to a
21:51fourth one, like, like I don't understand like how fans just constantly criticize.
21:56Like they're going to look back one day and they're going to look up and be
21:59like, Oh my God. Like Jason Tatum was one of the best players of all time.
22:02And you know, I, I understand that people have their opinions,
22:08they want them to be perfect. And I do think some of the criticisms fair you know,
22:11for whatever, whatever it is, shot profile, you know, like, you know,
22:15as rookie season,
22:15we made the big change in his pre-draft and he shot 43.4 or something like that.
22:20I don't have the numbers in front of me from three,
22:22but a lot of those were catching shoot spot ups. A lot of them were in the corners.
22:26Now, if you look at his shot profile, it's changed a lot. You know, I,
22:29I was just looking at it yesterday.
22:31There are only 12 players in the NBA that are shooting over 34% off the dribble
22:36threes and making at least 1.5 a game, only 12 in the entire NBA.
22:42So I know that everybody wants, and Jason's one of those 12.
22:45And so I understand like you don't,
22:47we don't want them settling for threes that are bad shots.
22:49We don't want him settling for threes when he can get downhill.
22:53We talk about that all the time. We look at that on film,
22:55all the time. But the case is it's just, that's league wide.
22:59It's just a hard shot to make,
23:01but he doesn't get as many catching shoots as other guys because he's the
23:03primary playmaker on that team. And so I don't think people put the concept,
23:08like the context into play. You know, when,
23:12when you're a first option and you're getting doubled and you're at your primary
23:16responsibility is to generate mismatches for your teammates. You know,
23:19he comes off a ball screen.
23:20He doesn't get those pocket jump shots that a lot of players get.
23:23Cause he gets doubled, he gets blitz, he gets off the ball.
23:25Now it's, you know, three on two on the backside that is good for the Celtics.
23:29You know, there's times where he drives downhill and the floor is tilted,
23:32which means basically the rotating,
23:33the extra defender on the strong side so that it takes away Jason scoring
23:37ability.
23:38And he's been able to improve his passing so that now everybody else is playing
23:40off of catching shoots and attacking closeouts that helps the Celtics.
23:44And so the goal is to help the Celtics. And so, you know, trust me,
23:48if he went and played for the Washington wizards,
23:50he would lead the league in scoring, no doubt, but that's not what he wants.
23:54He wants to hang banners.
23:55And so I wish fans understood that like sometimes you have to put those personal
24:00agendas aside for the betterment of the team.
24:03And I think that's what Jason doesn't get enough credit for is I still think
24:07Jason's underrated. You know what I mean? As highly rated as he is.
24:10I think he's underrated because people don't appreciate that he plays defense.
24:14You know, he creates for his teammates. He gets a bucket when you need to.
24:18He's so dynamic in all the aspects of the game. He's six 10 with a,
24:21with a package of a guard, like, you know what I mean?
24:24He's really special and he's not even close to his prime yet.
24:27You know what I mean? That's,
24:28that's the thing that to me is the most fun part about it.
24:32Yeah. The scrutiny around him is weird. I guess there's a lot to it. Boston,
24:37playing in Boston, being so visible so soon.
24:40I don't get the perception of him though,
24:44the negative side of it a lot of times because
24:48I, I, I, I, I don't even really know what to say. Yeah.
24:53About that whole thing. Um, I guess we can go to the summer though,
24:57because there was a lot of attention on him in the summer over the Olympics
25:00thing. He comes back, you guys get together,
25:03get in the lab a little bit with the shot there, because obviously, you know,
25:06through the Olympic run, limited number of shots,
25:10but wasn't able to get many jump shots to go. In fact,
25:13I don't think he hit one through the stretch there. Um,
25:16and then the playoff run, obviously, um, three points shooting down a little bit.
25:20You mentioned the splits between the, um,
25:22open and the more difficult ones there as well,
25:24but it was a limited window of time that you guys had going into the season.
25:29What made you think, all right, we got to tinker with some stuff here.
25:32Cause I remember going to camp to trying to play shot doctor and, you know,
25:35see what it was looking like and see what was different.
25:37It didn't look that different to me.
25:39So what did you guys go back and do after the Olympics there?
25:42Yeah. So one of the things also that the fans don't realize is it's not like
25:45we're sitting there and we're like retooling a shot, meaning like, all right,
25:48let's start from scratch.
25:50We love what his shot looked like in his rookie season.
25:53We had a dedicated three month, um, you know,
25:57time period where we were doing two a days, we're shooting a thousand shots a day.
26:00And we were like, it was perfect.
26:02Yeah. How has it evolved over time? You would say like, even to that point.
26:05Yeah. I mean, it, what happens is when, when Jason was younger,
26:08he had a shot that was way over his head and you notice that like,
26:12he would circle his elbow and then it would be way over his head and then shoot
26:15and a really high pocket. And so then in pre-draft we lowered it.
26:18And that really, you know, improves your arc,
26:20which allows you to have more room for drop angle,
26:22which allows you to have more room for air basically. Um, and so that was great.
26:27You know, he had perfect balance on every shot.
26:29And those are the two things that we really,
26:31three things we really notice is ball line.
26:33We want everything to be in a straight line, no circlage.
26:36Second thing is we want the ball on the way up to shoot.
26:39So that means like basically lower pocket shooting, not like a pause and then
26:42like a, uh, you know, a forward shot.
26:45And then the last thing is just balanced base, keeping his feet wide, you know,
26:48keeping a shoulder straight feet wide,
26:50just basically like not a lot of like pullbacks and not a lot of twist and
26:53turning and all that kind of stuff. And so, um, you know, I think every player,
26:58literally every player in the NBA, they go through ups and downs. Um, you know,
27:02I just think that Jason's are more heavily criticized. Um,
27:05but uh, I really do think that if you look at his percentage,
27:08it's more based on his shot diet and profile.
27:12And we just got to keep improving that shot diet and profile. Um,
27:16and then the mechanics have every once in a while, just like every player,
27:18they'll go through little slumps where you'll say, ah,
27:20you're pausing at the top or all your shoulders are leaning back or, you know,
27:23whatever those little mechanics are.
27:25But it's not like we're sitting there trying to change something that's already
27:29worked. You know what I mean? It's,
27:30it's more so just making sure that he sticks with what we know works,
27:34which is those three things. Good base, good slash, good balance,
27:38good shot line. And then on the way up ball path.
27:42So what stands out most to you about his season so far this year,
27:45coming off the championship,
27:46the adjustments you made there and just his overall productivity. And you know,
27:50I know you mentioned like the new Orleans shot, didn't love it.
27:53Even though it went in, like, are you, when you're looking at like good shot,
27:57bad shot for him,
27:58are you looking more at like the mechanics of it or the quality of it?
28:01Cause obviously he's going to shoot a lot of difficult shots that you might look
28:03at and go, no, no, no. And then it goes in. Cause that's just who he is.
28:07And that's obviously a big part of what's great about them as the team,
28:10but like,
28:10how do you go about evaluating his play night in a night out this season?
28:15Yeah. I mean, he's averaging what was a 27, nine and six. You know,
28:20and, and obviously the Celtics are, are in a really good spot. You know,
28:24they dropped some games that they probably shouldn't have, you know,
28:27they went through that kind of a month long. I don't know what it was.
28:31You know what I mean? It was a weird month. You know what I mean?
28:33That has some games that come out and dominate and some games that come out and
28:36just no show. But you know,
28:38the ultimate goal is to win a championship.
28:41And so you just need to be at your best when it matters,
28:44which is when the post season. And so you know,
28:47like Jason season, you know, he's, he's doing well, he's,
28:50he's having a great year. You know, there's a reason he was an all-star starter.
28:54There's a reason he'll be all NBA. And you know,
28:57the thing that matters is them figuring out solutions for their problems,
29:01them getting in rhythm. And if you look,
29:04the Celtics players,
29:04a big reason why they were losing is they were just missing shots that they
29:07normally make. You know, one of the things NBA shot teams do which I don't know if
29:12most fans know this, but they judge games on shot luck,
29:15which means if we took those exact same shots and if the other team took their
29:19exact same shots on average, who would win the game?
29:23And a lot of those games I lost, they would have won. You know,
29:25if you factor in for shot luck now,
29:28it doesn't matter because they didn't win and they didn't make them,
29:31which means, you know, whatever.
29:32But I do think that's also important to realize is like some of it was just,
29:37they weren't making shots they normally make. And you know, and,
29:40and so I do think that the Celtics are in a really good spot. You know,
29:45they have a great chance to go back and, and, you know, kind of you know,
29:50put themselves in a position to compete for another championship. And,
29:54and I think that obviously, you know,
29:55Jason has made strides in certain areas and, and you know,
29:59we just got to keep it rolling and hopefully they can put together another
30:03string of, of, of wins when it matters.
30:06So you mentioned a lot of untold stories coming tomorrow night in Boston.
30:10The Kobe thing stands out to me.
30:12I wasn't covering him at the time when his relationship with Kobe formed and,
30:15you know, he was a mentor to him early in his career.
30:19But it is something I think about a lot just because of obviously what happened
30:23with Kobe you know, dying in 2020
30:27that probably being an impactful moment early in Jason's career,
30:30losing a mentor like that and a guy who he idolized growing up.
30:35Obviously I don't think you probably want to give away some of the stories you're
30:38going to tell tomorrow, but the Kobe relationship for Tatum in general,
30:44how important was that?
30:46And what lasting impact do you think that has had on his career?
30:51Yeah. I mean, I think growing up, like he idolized him, you know what I mean?
30:54He was somebody that inspired him to chase greatness.
30:56He was somebody that brought love and joy to the game for him.
30:59And he's somebody that he studied, studied a lot of Kobe's game.
31:03And you see a lot of his, you know, the traces of his game in, in Jason's game,
31:07you know, his footwork, his versatility.
31:10You know, a lot of the things that he does are very Kobe like, and that's by,
31:14by training, you know what I mean?
31:15Like he literally worked on that stuff.
31:18And so I would just say that, like having the chance to work with your idol,
31:23somebody that you looked up to is like a full circle moment that, you know,
31:27it was a great experience for him. And, you know, for me, it was awesome too,
31:31just to be able to see, you know, Jason and him in a row.
31:33Were you there for a lot of those workouts meetings?
31:36So this is what people don't realize. He only did one workout with Kobe.
31:39Only one, that's it. And so he did that one workout with him.
31:44And obviously, you know, was he there for that?
31:48I was, yeah, we did all the workouts together.
31:50So it was a real cool moment to be there.
31:52And like I said, I mean, I don't want to speak for Jason.
31:55Jason's obviously made it very clear how much Kobe's meant for him.
31:59And you know, I was,
32:02I was appreciative that I was a part of that workout because it was,
32:07it was also a full circle moment for me from like going from watching film with
32:10Jason, teaching him how to jab like Kobe, how to fade like Kobe,
32:13how to operate in the mid post, like Kobe, how to like do everything like Kobe.
32:18And then we're out there with Kobe doing all the exact same skills that we had
32:21already worked on.
32:22It was just cool when he would throw something at Jason and Jason be like, okay.
32:25And just started repping it out. And Kobe's just like, wait, how did,
32:28how do you doing all this? We're like, we've already stole all of your game,
32:31you know? And, and I think that was a,
32:33was something that always stood out to me. It was like how prepared Jason was,
32:36just because he had been, you know, training like this, you know,
32:39his entire life.
32:41Yeah. Did, did anything stick with you from that in terms of his process,
32:45the way he works? Does anything kind of,
32:47did you pull anything from that that you kind of use or, uh, you know,
32:51think about to this day in terms of your process?
32:53Yeah. I would say, I would say the biggest thing is just system.
32:56You know what I mean? Having like your go-to option, then your second option,
32:58then like almost like a process instead of like, all right,
33:01I have this big bag of tricks, more of like, what's my go-to.
33:04And then what's my counter to that. And then what's my counter to that.
33:06So more of a system of attacking instead of just like a bag of tricks that you
33:10kind of are scattering and randomly using
33:14the books out tomorrow. He can get on Amazon.
33:17You can buy wherever books are sold. Obviously,
33:20if you're in Philly event going on tonight, there Boston tomorrow,
33:24still some tickets left. I put the link there in the chat.
33:28What's your favorite part of the book story in their section? Like what,
33:32what wouldn't you writing it? Were you like, all right,
33:34I'm excited to write about this, this section, my favorite part. Like what,
33:40what were you most excited to put pen to paper on when it came to any part of
33:43this book?
33:44You know what? It's funny because there's a bunch of untold NBA stories that are
33:47very cool. That's what most people will come for. But the truth is my favorite
33:51part was, was writing some of the personal stories because you know, there's,
33:56there's one story in the book you know,
33:58it's one about my dad and one about another dad. And you know,
34:04for my dad,
34:05he basically finally made the decision to commit to his health and lost 90
34:09pounds in the calendar year using the system that I outlined in the book.
34:12That's so cool to me. You know what I mean?
34:14The fact that he probably saved five to 10 years of his life by losing that
34:18extra weight that would have caused health problems later on if he didn't
34:21address it. And there's another story in the book about another gentleman who,
34:25you know, his, his daughter needed a kidney and he wasn't able to give up his
34:29kidney because his health and he reclaimed his health, you know,
34:33lost a hundred pounds in six months and basically was able to get on that
34:38operating table and donate a kidney to his daughter. And it just,
34:42that to me means the most because it really shows people that they have the
34:47power to make changes. And you know, we have all these people,
34:50even some people in the comments right now that like constantly criticize these
34:53athletes about like what little tweaks they want to see and what changes,
34:57but yet they are constantly stressed and struggling with their finances,
35:02with their relationships, with their, your kids or their spouses.
35:05They're struggling with, you know, their own weight. They're struggling with,
35:09you know, their, their inner peace and their happiness, whatever their,
35:12whatever those struggles are.
35:14And I hope that it gives them not only the confidence to actually go all in and,
35:18and try to reclaim that peace, you know,
35:20or reclaim their financial freedom or reclaim that relationship that they once
35:24loved or had, but also it gives them a strategy to do it in a system to do it.
35:29So that's my favorite part. You know what I mean? I,
35:32trust me, the NBA stories are going to get shared, right? You know what I mean?
35:35Like those are the ones that are going to be the highlights,
35:37but I think the meaningful ones are the ones that really are going to hit the
35:41moms and dads and the kids and motivate people to actually stop BSing themselves.
35:47If, if, you know, if I'm being honest,
35:50what's one big change you've had to make in your life to stop BSing yourself?
35:54You know what one big one was? And it's funny just because I think it's,
35:57it's so important. I stopped caring what people thought. And you know, first,
36:01when I first started being a trainer, you know,
36:04I put out a lot of content because then people would be like, wow, there's Drew.
36:07Like Drew, I wanted people to give me credit. When people,
36:10when my players would struggle, I'd be like, ah, that's my fault. Like,
36:14and then when people would say it's my fault, I like,
36:16I had to try to like prove them wrong by like, you know, helping the player.
36:19And I just realized like, you have to detach from that,
36:22like the results are the results. And you know,
36:24that mental clarity opened me up and freed me up to, you know,
36:27be a lot better skills coach. You don't worry about what the media says.
36:31You don't worry about what the fans say.
36:32You don't worry about what the haters or trolls say. You know,
36:35most of the time, if somebody says something stupid, I just block them now.
36:38And they're like, Oh, Drew's so insecure. I'm like, I just don't care anymore.
36:41So I just block you.
36:42And then a lot of times those same people beg me to unblock them on a different
36:45social media platform. And like, you just have to,
36:48you have to mature and realize that like, it doesn't matter what people say.
36:52What matters is the results you get and let them judge the results.
36:56And so for these players, you know what I mean?
36:59Like a lot of them are going to have a normal NBA season. Let's say you play 70,
37:0370 games, 72 games. You know, you're going to have 10 great games.
37:07You're going to have 10 really bad games and then you're going to have 50 where
37:12you're just average games. That's the most, that's the average NBA season.
37:17And so if you realize that that 50 of the 70 games that you play are going to be
37:21just average, you were nothing special and you weren't terrible.
37:25Then most of the time you're going to have criticism.
37:28The games that you're really bad, you're going to definitely have criticism.
37:31And then those 10 special games, people are just going to most of the time,
37:34just be like, see, that's what he could be. If he, like,
37:36even then you don't get credit. It's like,
37:38that's what you could be and should be every night.
37:39So I think that was the biggest thing that I had to stop BSing is like,
37:43stop caring, stop worrying about, stop like just who cares?
37:47Like just let them judge the results.
37:48And so I'm a big believer in looking at the evidence, you know?
37:53And so when it came to me, instead of having people say, Oh,
37:55he's the best trainer in the world.
37:56I just say the evidence says eight of my 12 guys have been all NBA all-stars.
38:01The evidence says, you know,
38:02my clients have made over $5 billion in contracts.
38:05The evidence says that, you know,
38:07a lot of these guys have personally shared stories with me that have helped them
38:09on and off the court and that's enough. And so I think that, you know,
38:13that's something for me and for a lot of people that I think is important.
38:16You know, we shouldn't worry about the outside noise.
38:19We should just really focus on the inner peace.
38:21And as long as you love the life you're living and know that you know,
38:24you're a good person doing whatever you're doing.
38:26I think that's when you're ultimately winning in life.
38:29That makes me think about one more thing.
38:31And I'll let you go here on this with Jason and you know,
38:34the criticisms or whatever else, you know, people might have for him.
38:38The one thing I always have loved about him,
38:40and I don't think people talk about enough with him as the games played the fact
38:45that he's out there every game, the fact that he's talked about,
38:48I don't want to rest because I want to be out there at the city,
38:51that city for the fans. That to me is that's big time.
38:55Especially when you look around the league, a lot of guys miss games.
38:58A lot of guys miss time. He's super durable. He's super healthy.
39:01What goes into that?
39:02Like what has allowed him to play so many games, be so effective, be so available?
39:07I mean, the other night he scores 50.
39:08I mean, plays 15 straight minutes in that second half.
39:12You don't see that much.
39:13And that's something you almost just expect from him
39:17because he's done it throughout his whole career so far.
39:19Is that something unique that he's done or you've seen in terms of his
39:23approach that's allowed him to do that?
39:25I just think he's been a professional ever since he was young.
39:28You know what I mean?
39:28The way that he maintains his body, the way that he's improved his strength
39:31training, him and Nick saying obviously spend a lot of time in the weight room
39:34and, you know, him doing treatment every single day, him
39:38getting in the cold plunge and stretching him, eating well, sleeping well,
39:44him avoiding, you know, toxic friendships and relationships
39:48so that nothing drains him off the court.
39:49Like it is very underrated how professional he is.
39:53And I think that's honestly why he gets so much hate is because
39:56there's not much to hate about him.
39:57You know what I mean?
39:58It's like he just he shows up, he puts in the work, he gets,
40:01you know, good results and then he goes home like.
40:04And so that's the thing I've always appreciated about Jay is like
40:07it doesn't matter what, you know, what is said.
40:10It doesn't matter what is thought.
40:11He's going to show up every day, put in the work, be a professional,
40:14come to come to work.
40:16And he also has the mentality that, you know, I can push through
40:21when a lot of other people don't.
40:22You know, there's a lot of other people that have little nagging injuries
40:24and they might say, I'm going to shut it down tonight or I don't want to play
40:27because it might mess up my stats or I don't want to play
40:30because I'm going to get blamed if I don't play well.
40:32He doesn't care about any of that.
40:33He's just like, if I can play, I'm going to play.
40:36I'm going to try to help my team win.
40:37I also want to be a good role model to everybody that looks up to me
40:40the same way I looked up to Kobe and and other guys before me.
40:43And so, again, I think one of these days,
40:46you know, people are going to look back and start appreciating,
40:49you know, really the you know, what Jason Tatum is putting together,
40:53because it's a it's going to be a special career that I really think
40:56is going to be one of the all time greats.
40:58We moved in the 10th in Celtics history and scoring at MSG the other night.
41:02And if we know Jason, you know, he's questionable tonight.
41:07We'll probably see him in Miami Celtics Heat tonight.
41:10We'll have coverage of that 730 here on the garden report after a live
41:14all star break fast approaching.
41:16Jason will be out there as well.
41:19Once again, for all star weekend and we'll have coverage of that as well.
41:23But tomorrow, if you're in Boston, make sure to head over this.
41:26About 40 spots left for Drew's book event.
41:31Stop bullshitting yourself out tomorrow.
41:34I can't wait to read it, Drew.
41:35I've been looking forward to this for a while.
41:37You know, I've been asking you about it.
41:38Where is it? Where is it?
41:39And it's finally on tomorrow.
41:41Yep.
41:43Tomorrow will be a special event.
41:44Like I said, I look forward to connecting with the fans.
41:46I think it'll be a very opening experience.
41:49And I think that the people that, you know, say, ah, he's just doing that
41:52to sell books, they don't realize, like, you know what I mean?
41:54Like the event itself is better.
41:56The book is just basically an add on.
41:58So it'll be a really cool event.
42:00And I'm excited to connect with with anybody that decides to pull up.
42:03Are you hosting it?
42:04Are you going to be interviewing Jay?
42:06Like, what's the setup going to be like?
42:07It's just us. Yeah, just us on stage.
42:10So it'll be it'll be fun.
42:11It's not going to be it's not going to be anything.
42:14It's going to be just a good conversation with a bunch of untold stories,
42:17a bunch of unseen footage.
42:19And I think it'll be a cool memory and a good way for people to see,
42:24you know, kind of the the behind the scenes work
42:28that he puts in to be really special.
42:30All right. He's Drew Hanlon.
42:32Make sure you go get that book and go check out the event tomorrow.
42:35I have links to both of those in the description slash comments.
42:38I appreciate you taking some time here, Drew.
42:41One interview for a while.
42:42So this was this was great.
42:44And we'll let you know what we think of the book out tomorrow.
42:47Awesome. Appreciate you.