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00:00I'm Mary Parent. I'm one of the producers of Doom Part 2. This is the process, and I'm
00:13here to have a conversation with the brilliant Patrice Fermet, our production designer.
00:20Thank you, Mary. This is great, this format. I love it. Just a conversation between two
00:25friends. Exactly. So Patrice, Denis, I think was very clear from the start about the need
00:36to break Frank Herbert's seminal novel into two parts in order to really do it justice.
00:45And when we began Part 2, I remember very clearly him saying, we're not going to repeat
00:53anything. There will not be a repeat. Nothing will be the same. Everything will be new.
00:59And to sort of add to that challenge, Part 1, as he always refers to it, it was almost
01:06an appetizer. And many, many things were introduced. And then Part 2, we really delve deeper into
01:15these themes about cultures, religion, imperialism, colonialism, survival, ecology.
01:24And so what you set up in Part 1, you've now had the opportunity and the challenge to go deeper
01:31into Part 2. Exactly. And that's what made it fun and challenging, because from the get-go,
01:40as you were saying, Denis was like, all right, Pat, let's make this movie totally different
01:45from the first. Of course, it was an appetizer. But now let's dig in. Let's dig in into
01:53the Fremen culture. Let's dig into the Arconian culture. And also let's introduce
02:01Khaitan and the imperial planet. And for me, that was kind of a relief, because
02:07again, just like Denis, we thrive on challenges. And repeating business, not super interesting
02:15and not super challenging. So it was great to start. All right. And one of the things is that,
02:23of course, we're returning to Arrakis, and of course, we're returning to Arakeen.
02:27But the fact that the Harkonnens carpet-bombed Arakeen gave us a really good opportunity to
02:34revisit that place as if it was new. Because storytelling-wise,
02:45now that the Harkonnens are being given free reign to the spice exploitation on Arrakis,
02:54they can rebuild to their own image, just like any colonial entity would do. So they're putting
03:01their culture into rebuilding Arrakeen. So just like a cancer, these inflatable
03:09black structure, they grow on Arrakeen just like a cancer. And I think that's my approach to any
03:17design that I do. And especially on part two on Doom, it's about storytelling.
03:26Yeah, very well said. I've had the pleasure of being able to observe you at work. And
03:33one of the things that always amazes me is how intentional everything you're doing,
03:39how authentic it is, but at the same time, completely intentional and how many layers
03:45there are to it. And I remember the first time I was able to see the cave of birds, for example,
03:53and the Sietch Tabar. And I remember that day very clearly. And I was so impressed that the
04:02hieroglyphs, everything was real, everything translated. And then, of course, what you were
04:07doing in the cave of birds. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about this notion of identity.
04:14Yes, well, thank you. First of all, another important thing for Denis is to have those
04:20immersive sets. So the most we can build, obviously, we've got budgetary limits,
04:26and also structural limits, because these places sometimes are bigger than the soundstage.
04:30But for the Fremen culture, I think the number one thing we needed to underline is they're in
04:39survival mode, not only because they are being put to the ground and hunted by the Harkonnens
04:47and any families that were there before them, but they're also fighting against
04:55the elements. That's why, again, in Sietch Tabar, we see the sand seeping every hole. So they're
05:03being drowned by sand, drowned by the elements. They're constantly fighting. And that's also the
05:09reason why they need to write their history on the walls, just like hieroglyphs.
05:16So I love the fingerprint idea I thought was so...
05:19Oh, thank you.
05:20Yeah, really emotional.
05:23On the cave of birds that I imagined that it would probably be an older cave that they built.
05:33For that theme, to carry on on the same theme of identity, all the textures on the wall were
05:40based on fingerprints, which is very personal, very deep.
05:48I found it super emotional.
05:50Oh, thank you. And for me, the fact that to go deeper into that identity,
05:56as opposed to using hieroglyphs, it's because Sietch Tabar has been bombarded,
06:02so it's been crushed, it's been demolished. So they fall back on the cave of birds.
06:10And when you fall back on something, it needs to be
06:13really who you are. So that's also for the fingerprint.
06:17Well said. On the other end of the spectrum, I remember being
06:22really blown away by the emperor's mobile tent. And especially because I remember,
06:30I'm like, I don't remember this being this way in the book, you know,
06:33and I realized there was not really a reference.
06:37No, that's the great thing about, actually, Frank Herbert's writing. It gives the clues,
06:44just little elements. Okay, so it's a pyramidal-shaped tent. That's it. And it gives you,
06:51okay, so then you have to dig a bit deep in, obviously, the script, but also the book.
06:57And, okay, so they're bringing that tent from Khitan to Arrakeen, to Arrakis. And then,
07:06okay, so you start almost like method designing, like, how the hell would they bring that tent?
07:13How would they actually do that?
07:14The whole government, it's huge, you know, and it needs to be
07:18imposing on the rest of Arrakeen, which is already huge. So I was remembering
07:24when I was a kid, my dad had a Seiko wristwatch that was all like interlinked.
07:32And I was fascinated by it. And I said, okay, what about if they actually bring that,
07:39their ship, and then they hoist down, like, something that they could deploy and grow?
07:47And for that tent, also, the idea is like, it is basically the head, well, it's not basically,
07:56he's the emperor. So he's the head of the known universe. So I was thinking that inside the tent,
08:03you know, the design should be like another pyramid inside the pyramid with, you know,
08:10with a staircase that would lead to the top man. Below, it's just like, designed like an
08:18organigram of a government or a criminal family, you know, it's like, it goes down.
08:27And above that, it's basically two slits, like an X. But since the staircase leading to the emperor,
08:38the divinity of the universe, it's like a cross, because the light being projected at an angle
08:45creates a cross. So that's, that was the whole thinking. So basically, again, it's like a
08:52showing, trying to, trying to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to give like a,
09:00like to support the storyline, visually, which is such a wonderful surprise, because you don't
09:06see it coming, you know, it's just yet another layer of something that's unfolding when you see
09:10this beautiful sphere. It's not what you expect, you know, but then again, if you explain it,
09:15it makes complete sense, you know, so then it feels very real, you know, that everything that
09:22you have achieved in the film is so real. And, and the world building is, and especially with you and
09:30Denis, this is, I think, your sixth film? Was your sixth film? Yeah, it was. The mind meld that you two
09:38have is incredible, because he has such a clear vision, and the way you, the way you two work.
09:43But since we're talking about the emperor, you know, we had the opportunity to go to the imperial
09:50planet, which coincided, you know, you've, you've spoken before about Carlo Scarpa, the very famous
09:58Italian architect and designer from 50s, 60s, 70s, what the, what Scarpa's inspiration was,
10:06and somehow you figured out no one had ever been allowed to shoot in the Brion tomb before,
10:12and we were able to do that. It was incredible. It really was, and honestly, Mary, it's like the
10:18first time that I went to a location, I visited a location, and I, and Duncan Broadfoot, our location
10:25manager had, you know, made the deal that, okay, we're allowed to visit, but let's see, it's never
10:31been shot before. Let's, you know, that will be like the second part of negotiation. So, so he knew
10:37how important that architect was for me, inspired me on part one, and he's a huge influence on,
10:46on me. I think it's, he's, he's just the master. And it's the first time that I walked on a location,
10:53I actually started crying. It's, it's so beautiful. It's so, all the intricate details, it looks
10:59very brutal, but so many layers and details, and everything, you know, is in conversation
11:07with each other, like all the shapes. And, and the important thing for me was to, why Carlo Scarpa was
11:15important in part two, was because, just like any imperial entity, any conqueror,
11:23they impose their culture on other, on the people they conquer. They were like, the Greeks did that,
11:29the Turks did that, the Americans do that. And, and it's, it only makes sense that the purest form
11:38of all those, you know, like, steps, design, and all that, all those motifs, we would actually use
11:49his masterpiece, the masterpiece of the master, which is Tamba Brion in Italy, just to introduce
11:55the planet. And, and I thank them, because they welcomed us with, with open arms. And it was a,
12:02no, it had never been before. Yeah. I love how that just, it all sort of came back to, you know,
12:08your, your inspiration and dream became a reality. But that's a lot of what you, a lot of what you do
12:13masterfully. Since we're, since this is the process, I think it would be great to talk a little
12:19bit about how unique your process is, and selfishly as a producer, it's very production friendly. And,
12:26you know, particularly in a lot of what you achieved on Getty Prime, you know,
12:31and just the Harkonnens as a culture, and what drives them, I thought was fascinating. And again,
12:38very production friendly, much appreciated. Well, thank you. And my process, basically,
12:43it's like, I start with, with models with, obviously, my, I started, I started drawing,
12:50like designing in 3D, with SketchUp and Blender. And I've got a team of concept artists. And we
12:59all work, you know, with, with the same, with models, those models from those models.
13:07I do screen, screen grabs, basically. And that's, that's the illustration. And with,
13:14when I work, it's a very sculptural way. So I always use a, like a one sun, one light.
13:21So I see all the shapes and all the textures eventually will affect the set. And so with those,
13:29with those, those illustrations from those models comes illustrations that are approved by Denny,
13:35obviously. And after that, all of that becomes assets that are distributed through all the
13:41amazing department. So, so Greg Fraser gets a, gets a set of the images, obviously,
13:48and also the models. So he can actually play with the, with them on Unreal.
13:55And Paul Lambert, obviously, and his team. So it's like, it trickles down. It's also a way that
14:00to maintain for Denny, the, the original vision throughout, you know, pre-production, production,
14:07and post-production, nothing really changes from the illustrations that we start with,
14:14you know, and on. Certainly experienced it. You know, everyone has a different process.
14:21You know, I've, I've, I've experienced other processes and particularly when there's so much
14:28that's being created. I mean, it's really, it's incredibly efficient and it allows, you know,
14:35it allows the artistry to exist within a way that it can actually be produced properly, you know,
14:42so, so all of us that support you all can figure out how to really bring to life, you know,
14:47effectively rather than being handed something and it becomes a head scratcher, you know,
14:54and a scramble to figure out how to pull it off.
14:57And speaking of supporting us, like, honestly, you guys support us amazingly, like with all
15:02these crazy ideas. Again, we, we said, I spoke about Denny encouraging us to be, to think outside
15:09the box, but you also do the same thing. Mary, like they're, they say, all right, thrive for
15:15something different, never go for the status quo. So that's, it's also amazing working with you
15:21and Herb and, yeah.
15:23But yeah, it's a great, we've been very fortunate.
15:25It's a great group.
15:26You know, starts from the top down. So I think ultimately, you know, reflects from Denny and
15:31you know that better than anyone, given your long collaboration. So again, talking about process,
15:38Patrice, the vision for Getty Prime, the light, how Greg and Denny came up with it on, you know,
15:46the infrared. Talk a little bit about how, you know, collectively the design and conceptualization
15:55of this started with you.
15:57It's, well, Denny started with a couple of words. Melted black plastic. I wanted to see it as a
16:07melted, like black plastic world. Plastic comes from petrol from, and so that's, that was the
16:17trigger thing and everything molded, everything curved. And just, just before we started production,
16:25I was driving just outside Montreal and I had a bit of an epiphany. There was a field filled with,
16:32it was a dealer of septic tanks. Black septic tanks. And on that day it was overcast and it was
16:40just a bit of dust because those were, septic tanks were exposed to nature. And I was like,
16:47wow, this looks like a miniature Getty Prime. So from that, I started like looking at shapes,
16:55looking at how they're molded and getting that language going within Getty Prime. Because it
17:03felt like a natural thing. What's inside Getty Prime, it's basically Harkonnens. So, yeah. So,
17:10and Denny liked the idea because it, you know, it was directly black melted plastic,
17:19black molded plastic. And Denny also, he was like, okay, when we're, he wanted it
17:27like black and almost like it felt black and white, but when we're outside, the black sun,
17:34he wanted that as conceptually to suck up all the colors. So there was discussions about how
17:43do we do it? Do we do it black and white? Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Then Greg came like,
17:49what if we do it with an infrared black and white? And we learned a lot about infrared.
17:54And we sure did learn a lot on that one. You cannot cover up tattoos.
17:59You cannot cover up tattoos. And poor Jacqueline, it was like Denny, like as a genius, he is like,
18:06he embraced the fact that some fabric, which is black, turned out white. We tested them
18:16outside with natural light. Inside with artificial light, they still turned black, but not all the
18:23black fabric turned black. So it was quite a learning experience, which was great. I was lucky
18:30because the sets, the sets, they kept the same color. But speaking, to go back to the collaboration
18:38effort with Greg, which, what is so great is that we have this little thing going together.
18:47Are you going to talk about your paint swatches? Yeah, I'm going to talk about the paint.
18:53Talk about the paint. Because the idea is like, I've always found that it's a crime to have the
19:03best painters do their job under the worst lighting and like conditions. And like studio
19:11house lights with court lights. It's like, it's so bad. So obviously they do a first pass. They do
19:18a really good first pass. And then Greg shows up and he does his pre-light. And we're there, me and
19:27my head scenic painter are there. And we look at the pre-light and we're like, we also have this
19:35cheap used Alexa camera and a monitor. So we look at what's going on and we talk to Greg and
19:44you know, the intention of sometimes seeing some edges, some curved edges, like, ah, they fall
19:48too much into the black. And so after that, the whole pre-light, we do tests during the pre-light.
19:55And, but after that, he leaves us one, one board operator, one lighting board operator throughout
20:02the week after, before we shoot. So we can actually really finesse, put the right makeup
20:08on the edges. It looks like black, but let's just put just a little bit of chrome there.
20:16So it catches the highlight. And that's how we get to finesse the set. And that's a huge part
20:22of the collaboration. The smallest, you know, a lot of little things add up. I've seen, they're
20:27not even like swatches. They're big boards. But that, that also, I think that leads to another,
20:35I think really interesting aspect of the film, which is in many ways, you went old Hollywood,
20:42meaning you, you really built the sets. We don't have a lot of set extensions, very few, you know,
20:50and really old school Hollywood built them. The stages that we were lucky to have were huge and
20:57you could do that, but that was something that you and Denis conceptualized from the start.
21:02It was a choice. No, it was definitely a choice. And I know some filmmakers would say, well, you
21:08know, like, let's, let's let's keep our doors open for if anything needs to be changed at the
21:14in post-production. But Denis is like, he's courageous. Okay. This is what we do. This is
21:21what I want. This is what, this is, this is, this looks how I feel it should look. So let's do it.
21:27And let's, let's, you know, like there's so many, so many wide shots and then go to medium and,
21:34but we try to maximize everything that is built for real. That's sometimes, I know it can be
21:40a bit nerve wracking for, for the first, for some products during the producing.
21:47It's worth it. I mean, you can tell, and it helps the actors as well. I remember walking
21:51through the Siege for the first time and it was incredible. I felt that, I mean, you know,
21:56from top to bottom.
21:57But it also puts the crew, of course the actors, they, it helps them play because they,
22:02they're right into which they should be. But also I think for the, for the crew that everybody's
22:09like, okay, this is the type of film we're making. So everybody's like, kind of, okay,
22:12they know the, the March and they put more attention, I think, to, to, to what they do.
22:16I hear you, the craftsmanship and when the bar is set, you know, setting the bar high, I think,
22:22you know, inspires everybody to do.
22:24We're like the DJs. We're like the DJs. We set the visual tone when people walk on the,
22:31on the sets. Yeah. But yeah, so they did the, obviously there's budget limitation and there's,
22:41there's a, there's space limitation, but yeah, we, we really build a lot on, on, on part two.
22:47Yeah, and I will say again, I, you and Denis both are amazing with, with how you spend,
22:56you know, you approach things very much like independent filmmakers. Obviously this is,
23:02you know, big scale moviemaking, a big epic cinematic event, but the approach is,
23:09is very indie style and there's such specificity that, you know, I, we've not, I don't, unless,
23:15unless it's something I'm not aware of, but I don't think so. There's not, you know, it's not
23:20like you're trashing sets and this didn't work and a lot of changes. Again, it goes back to
23:25that conceptualization at the beginning and the collaborative process, back to process again,
23:30you know? And it's also about sometimes like shapes, playing with shapes and proportions
23:36and you have like a shape that serves the purpose of a one set like that. But if you,
23:43and reusing some of the, some of the, that's true. We did quite a bit of that when we had,
23:50gosh, what was our final count? It was almost 350,000 square feet.
23:54We didn't, we had all of Orego and then we took over that exhibition center and I, you know,
24:00remember the changeover on the sets, which is always a bit nerve wracking because you're,
24:04you're wondering, you know, are you going to recognize this? And I've certainly seen that in
24:07films before and no such thing, you know? Oh, with a bit of, again, with a bit of help from
24:13the light, the lighting department, just like, okay, you light it a bit differently. And also
24:19like when we, when we, we, we, we read the script and like, okay, you cannot like, you cannot do
24:25that trick if those scenes are going to be edited one next to each other. Like you need a bit of
24:30time. So, so it's, it's all about the, the timing and the, you know, okay, I can get away with that
24:37or I don't think I can get away with that. And also with the working in relationship with the
24:43first AD, like, okay, I'd like to, to do a revamp of a set, but I don't have enough time. So again,
24:53it's a collaborative effort. What, what, how much time do you need? So it's, it's always a
24:58conversation and, and, and things can, as long as we shoot every day and no, but I mean, it's,
25:08it's really like a puzzle, which is, which is also very, it's a fun part of the creative process
25:15as well. For sure. But take the compliment. Yeah. Thank you. You know, as brilliant as,
25:23you know, Frank Herbert is, and as prescient as Frank Herbert is, it's always challenging
25:28to adapt a book to film, but particularly with this level of world building and to have it,
25:36you know, it's fascinating that, that, you know, it's a post, you know, humanity had a war with AI.
25:45And now here we are, the good news is it's not dystopian. Humanity has survived, but of course,
25:51we're up to our same old tricks. A lot of the things that got us into trouble in the first
25:55place, we're still repeating, but we've moved away from technology and figuring out how to do that
26:02in a way that feels so seamless and real. I think it's a testament to you and Denis that it feels
26:09effortless in the film, but it's not at all. And, you know, we have giant worms, we have, you know,
26:16all of these things that are, that are this, these incredible elements that are blending together,
26:23you know, they're fictitious, but certainly thematically relevant, but completely fictitious,
26:29but yet we're completely in a, what feels like an authentic lived in believable world, which
26:35obviously makes the film that much more powerful, but it is, it is a, it is a real trick to pull
26:41that off with all these disparate elements. And Denis is such a master, like we need to, to make
26:48the unbelievable credible, we need to always anchor it in some sort of reality. And whether it's,
26:55whether it's, it's, it's building these sets, as we're saying, or shooting in real environment,
27:01you know, in, in, in Wadi Rum or, or, or, or in Abu Dhabi, you feel the sun, you feel the real
27:10elements, it's anchored into a, into like, these are real rocks. These, this is real, this is real
27:16sand, the expanse of the sand is real. So I think, I think it's important, you need also to,
27:25to, to, to design according to, to the element, to be aware of where that, where that set is going
27:32to be sitting, in which context, like in which, again, elements, or is, is the sand, sorry, is the
27:41wind too strong to have any structure like that? So you, you put it at an angle. So it,
27:48design should always be a conversation with the environment in which it sits in.
27:53Well, that's one thing I think you've done beautifully, which is taking, because so much
27:58of Dune is about nature, and, you know, humankind's relationship to nature. And, you know, whether it's
28:06the still tent, or I remember when you were talking about the spice harvester being like a
28:12cockroach, you know, and the beautiful wind catchers, you know, like a spider, and everything
28:19had a touch point to nature. Yeah, no, it's a, and it needs, you know, like the, the spider was a,
28:27sorry, the wind catcher was inspired by spiders, a picture of a spider, netting is, is, it's web,
28:33and it had like water drops in it. So it's like, oh, that's kind of a thing with spiders,
28:40because we also Lady Fenring's, you know, Lady Fenring, Lady Fenring. Yeah, lots of spiders,
28:48that room is basically she, she's attracting, she's attracting the fade into her, her, her,
28:55her nest, her web. And when you walk into that room, it's like you're walking underneath, like,
29:03like these giant, it was wild. It was so very memorable. Yeah. And then the headboard of the
29:13of the bed, it's basically like a spider with like, the under underside of a spider,
29:20if my English is correct. But no, we have a lot of fun. Yeah. With with that.
29:27And playing with nature, the, yeah, the, the, the, it's fun.
29:34But those those touch points, just, just, you know, consciously help, you know, an audience
29:41when you're when you're being immersed in this world, even just subconsciously, things begin to
29:47feel more real, because there's things that are ingrained in us already that are familiar in our
29:52world that that make them feel that much more, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a
30:00emotional response. You know, it's not these, these things are thought of, it's, it's, it's,
30:09it comes from the script, it comes from the book, it comes from the director, but it's and it comes
30:14also from your personal experience as a designer, like where you've been, how you were raised,
30:21what you've seen the experience you've lived. So I don't think any machine thinking machine could
30:26think about that. It's these are they know, it sure is a handmade film with passion.
30:33You feel that it's handcrafted.
30:35All the heart. Yeah, it's, it's a, it and one thing that also drives the passion of everybody
30:42is like those, those, those methodology meetings that Denis.
30:47Yeah, those are, I know they're from there. I know sitting around that table,
30:53from my perspective, you know, I always feel grateful to get to be a part of making things
30:59and to do that for a living. But I will say, do you know, films like this don't come along often
31:08and to be a part of and to be seated at that table and watch that process is certainly something that
31:17has been a highlight for me of my entire career.
31:21And you look around, you're like, okay, the knee is like the master. Okay, we all know
31:26what the settings will be. But nobody really knows how we're going to tell the story of the scene
31:31until we have those storyboards. And I, and you're okay, I'm privileged. And then you
31:36turn left and say, Oh, there's Gerd, there's Paul Lambert. And you turn right.
31:41It's a drag. And it's like, oh, there's Jacqueline. It's like, oh, my God. Okay. So
31:45it's amazing to be part of that team. It's like, I'm so privileged.
31:51Yeah, I pinch myself whenever I'm on those meetings.
31:53Yeah, agreed.