Join academic experts from leading schools in the UAE as we explore the importance of initiating career readiness in high school. Discover how local schools equip children with the necessary information and skills to navigate their professional aspirations with confidence.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Once again, great to have you here. Final one of the weekend, which is always a good one, so we thank you for those of you that have turned up.
00:07We know there's always people that tend to come in as soon as the sessions start.
00:12My name's Kitch, and over the next little while we'll be discussing, having followed on so many of the innovations around schools and nurseries,
00:19we'll now be looking at getting career ready in high school.
00:23We know that high school plays a critical role in preparing students for the transition from education to the workplace,
00:30from identifying individual interests to fostering both academic and non-academic skills.
00:36Schools have the responsibility to equip students with the tools and resources to succeed in their chosen careers in the future.
00:44We've joined our academic experts in this panel from the leading schools in the UAE
00:48as we explore the importance of initiating career readiness in high school,
00:53and we aim to discover how local schools can equip children with necessary information and skills
00:59to navigate their professional aspirations with confidence and also with clarity.
01:04Our speakers we've got for this session, the final one,
01:07Mohana Kalkar, the Head of Admissions at the Local Indian International School.
01:11Thank you so much.
01:12Paul Rye, the Head of Secondary from Heartland.
01:15Thank you for being present.
01:17And Ritika Anand, the Principal of the Diro Private School.
01:20Round of applause for our speakers please.
01:24Mohana, a simple question to start.
01:27How are the schools today helping students to develop the right skills for their future careers?
01:37We'll turn this one on for you.
01:39All right.
01:40There we go.
01:41Yoshi, you're on.
01:43So we see in skills that we require to be in standards, communication skills, which is very important.
01:49And we've seen both times that how communication is very important and can help during those times.
01:56Secondly, we need to see that the children are AI ready.
02:00Robotics is one of the critical thinking skills.
02:03There are research skills which come into picture as well.
02:06These are some of the skills that we are thinking about.
02:10So it's for those who couldn't hear, robotics, AI.
02:13It's training the students now, not just the traditional STEM subjects.
02:17It's a lot more of the technology that they need to be equipped with.
02:21Yes.
02:22Once it comes to skills, the subjects that we're looking at, once it comes to skills,
02:25these are the skills that they need to learn.
02:27Would you agree, Paul, they're more of the common skills that are needed to be career ready
02:32rather than traditional subjects, the softer skills perhaps?
02:35I don't know.
02:36Do you want me to start off?
02:37Yes, you could.
02:38I think the question is interesting.
02:40I think the idea of career ready and what kind of career type people will graduate towards.
02:45I think it was around the year 2000, the Australian educationist, Henry Baird,
02:50put together a series of talks and a presentation in his book around the idea of a girl in class, Angelica,
02:57who was five at the time.
02:59And we were preparing Angelica for a career that we didn't actually know what she might go and do.
03:04And I have to admit, I was quite critical of that idea at the time.
03:09I actually think what you mentioned around two, there were two disruptors.
03:14One was COVID.
03:15COVID was a disruptor in terms of challenging some of the orthodoxies around what schools thought they were doing.
03:21And some of the way in which we've changed practice has actually been positive.
03:25I think the other is disruptive technology.
03:28It may be that our young people go into work that's quite traditional,
03:33they become engineers and doctors, for example.
03:36The way in which that work is carried out will be transformed over the next 20 or 30 years.
03:42And AI and disruptive technologies, while they might not change the careers that children do,
03:47it will completely transform the way in which they carry out those careers.
03:51So I think the focus on transferable skills and the focus on the capacity for future learning are probably more important than how they ever were.
04:01I do think something you said about subjects is important, though.
04:04It remains fundamental that schools teach children the bedrock of young people and those who go off to graduate,
04:12the foundations of the subjects that they all go to study.
04:15So if you don't have to do chemistry, it's more than you know how to do chemistry by the age of 18.
04:19So we mustn't discount knowledge in this case.
04:22But I do think the idea of transferable skills and a disruptive work community in the next few years is good.
04:30Just holding with you on that point, Paul, one of the discussions we've had over the past couple of days is the challenge in finding the balance.
04:38So obviously, if you want to be a chemist, then you need to know the basics of chemistry.
04:42But then there's also the need to be job ready, to have the latest innovations.
04:46And sometimes the school leaders are at the forefront of industry because they're equipped with more technology than rusted,
04:51hardened-on people in the industry who don't want to change.
04:54How hard are you finding, are schools finding, to keep that balance?
04:59I think until now, it's been relatively simple to do because we've been in front of children.
05:04I think we've seen the period where children are now in front of us in terms of technology.
05:09We're concerning ourselves in school about the use of AI.
05:13The children are already using it in ways that we don't understand.
05:16And I think we're at that really interesting point, and my attention and opportunity comes,
05:22that we need to think very deeply about how AI will transform some aspects of schooling.
05:28So, for example, can we rely on pieces of work done outside of the classroom in any meaningful way?
05:34Can we rely on externally-competed assessment in schooling outcomes,
05:39given the challenges with detecting whether or not a piece has been altered by an individual,
05:45given the amount of AI out there?
05:47And does it actually mean we'll end up back in more traditional routes of examination,
05:52waiting on examiners to be ahead of you than they've ever been before?
05:55And I don't think we know the answers to that yet, but it's an interesting topic.
05:58Yeah, I think we may even get into that topic towards the end of the session.
06:02Riddhika, thank you for being patient.
06:04Are you the principal of the Deira Primary School?
06:06We mentioned how students are now sometimes at the forefront
06:10when they're coming in and perhaps teaching teachers.
06:13Are students aware of this situation?
06:15Are they aware of the impact?
06:18I mean, they're trying to get through that week, that month, that year,
06:22but do you think they're aware that when they leave school at 18,
06:25they need to have these extra skills rather than face subjects?
06:29Yes, absolutely.
06:30And it is also therefore the job of the parents and the schools
06:34to make sure that they all become aware if they aren't already.
06:38Because especially in Dubai, being a large expat population,
06:42parents are coming in at different times of the year from different places.
06:46They have different experiences prior on education,
06:49what it looks like, what they want for their children.
06:52And when they come to Dubai, which is a hotpot of so many cultures,
06:57so many expectations, and a country which is very aspiring,
07:01so that changes the perspective of so many parents
07:04who might traditionally not be looking at that.
07:07So it's the responsibility, I believe, of the schools.
07:10See, in my 20 years of being in Dubai,
07:13I started my career as a chemistry teacher for AS and A level,
07:17and then I went down to leadership into the schools,
07:19and I'm looking at whole school now.
07:21So it is very important that schools focus on developing
07:25holistic personalities in their students right from the younger age.
07:30For example, software skills, resilience,
07:33which is very important for them to see through
07:36when they're having difficulties in examination.
07:39So as they grow into the field outside,
07:41they would be challenged so many times
07:43with not being successful in the first go.
07:45So teaching that balance of software skills, communication skills,
07:49collaboration, financial literacy,
07:52knowing how to manage your own self outside.
07:55So those are one of the few things where, you know,
07:58children who are very academically bright come back home
08:01because they're not able to manage their independent lives
08:04outside the country without their parents' support or things like that.
08:07So as schools, we need to be very aware.
08:09We need to be aware of our cohorts.
08:11We need to be aware of, are these just ready to get into university,
08:15the secondary part of the schools?
08:16They're in the middle, so what could possibly be happening?
08:19So as I said, no disruptive technology is already bringing them in.
08:23Children from FS are learning about coding and programming right now.
08:27So that's where the schools need to go.
08:30They need to keep track of all of this together
08:33as an individual and give them that facility to make them successful.
08:39And adding to that, I think, which is very important
08:42that school and parents need to work at is values
08:45because we do want them to become responsible, caring, empathetic citizens
08:49and not just individuals who are looking for their own path and their own success
08:54but success as a community, success as a society.
08:57So sustainability, environmental awareness, giving to the society
09:01are also equally important fundamental concepts
09:04that need to be built in the schools, I think.
09:06Yeah, and because some students find that overwhelming,
09:09you've got to take in so much, you know.
09:11How hard is it as teachers and as educators to find the balance in the curriculum
09:15because it seems like each year there's a new innovation
09:18or there's a new holistic method that's added to the curriculum.
09:21Yeah, so that's the part of the curriculum review process
09:24that is very crucial every year,
09:26to keep abreast of what the children need in order to be successful
09:30and also at the same time to gauge the interest of the generations
09:33as they're becoming younger and younger and looking at many other things.
09:37So for example, we can't tell them now not to have devices.
09:40We can't tell them now not to use technology
09:43or you can't use this, you know, this thing.
09:45But it's how to use it with responsibility.
09:49That is very important for us to teach.
09:51So therefore, there is this continuous work going on
09:53and yes, it's a lot for educators to do.
09:56I wouldn't say any educator would feel it's a piece of cake
09:59nowadays because there are a lot of things that we need to get ready.
10:03But as I said, we are preparing our children for a future.
10:07For three years, we don't even know anything about this yet.
10:10So the best we can do is give them a very broad base of fundamental skills
10:14in all areas and values so that they become those ready veteriners
10:18and able to learn on their own and, you know, grow on their own and adapt.
10:23Yeah, thank you, Radhika.
10:24You'd be aware, some of that may not be aware,
10:26it was touched on in the last session,
10:28that when many students graduate, for the ones that are in kindergarten,
10:3265% of all the jobs haven't even been created yet.
10:35So it's a scary prospect.
10:38On that view, Mahana, what are you doing in terms of mentorship
10:43or in terms of work placements or internships?
10:46Is that the best way still to bridge that gap
10:49between the school and the workplace?
10:51Absolutely.
10:52It is very important for the students to be having good internship opportunities.
10:57And also, we keep meeting a lot of families and students
11:03who have no idea about subject choices or internship opportunities
11:07or, you know, getting employed in the future.
11:12They come to us saying that, you know,
11:14my friend is taking this and I would like to go and take this.
11:17And already it's just in right now.
11:21So I would like to go and do that.
11:23But then it is our responsibility to tell them, educate them, empower them,
11:28you know, and spend their summer holidays in a much better way,
11:37engaging themselves with some internship opportunities.
11:40So maybe three to four weeks or, you know,
11:43realistically, how easy is that to tell a student
11:46that they're taking summer holidays?
11:48But they do, at least most of them do.
11:50So it's our responsibility to tell them about it.
11:53And also, one more thing I feel that high school students must have one hobby
11:58and one sport in them.
12:00That is also one thing we always want them to have as students, right?
12:04Is that the balance for holistic learning?
12:06No, it's not the balance.
12:07But in the university, what happens is,
12:09how you spend your free time in the university is very important.
12:12And if you don't have engaging things going on,
12:15then they end up doing the things they shouldn't be doing either
12:19or they fall into bad company.
12:21It's just, you know, too many possibilities.
12:23Do the schools assist on all those mentorships or placements?
12:29Yes.
12:30Is it becoming part of the curriculum as well?
12:31It is.
12:32We have a career counsellor.
12:33I think most of the schools do have career counsellors on board.
12:36And they do this mentorship, refining of the students, you know,
12:40giving them good opportunities to identify their diversities,
12:43scholarships, et cetera, yeah.
12:47Paul, how are you working with students to help decide on the right career path
12:51for all these mentorships?
12:52And sometimes it's up to the students to, you know,
12:55they've got all these options.
12:56But how do you help them kind of break down and make a calculated decision?
13:00Yeah, I think that's part of the challenge we're facing at the moment.
13:05Some of the things that I think are important is to go early
13:08and to think that career planning and university guidance
13:12begins in post-16, begins at the age of 16 is wrong.
13:15That needs to be brought down early into within the British system,
13:19children start to take their options at the end of year nine,
13:22so at the age of 14.
13:23So actually bringing your careers guidance program down to 13
13:28and 14-year-olds so you're starting to have those meaningful discussions around.
13:32At that stage, course selection will not define you,
13:35but what it can do is make a potential outcome more difficult to achieve.
13:41And it can just mean you have to take a slightly different route.
13:43So bring those discussions very early.
13:46You're absolutely right that we all have our careers guidance counsellors.
13:50Each week we run a Tuesday session where we have somebody
13:56who is actually a member of our parent body or somebody we know in the city
14:00comes in and talks about their career path and what they actually do.
14:04Much of what we find with children is they want to do a particular role
14:08until they find out what the person who does that role actually does.
14:14So we have career sessions every Tuesday morning where we invite children
14:20from year nine up, so the 14-year-olds up,
14:24to come and listen to somebody from the industry or particular profession.
14:30Usually my voice is quite loud and I wouldn't need this,
14:32but today as you can hear I'm a little bit hoarse.
14:34The other thing is the good use of technology.
14:36There are two software platforms, BridgeView and the other one,
14:41I can't remember now, what we actually use.
14:46Unifor. Thank you.
14:48So what Unifor will do is you put it in front of a 14-year-old
14:52and they can just type in everything they think they like to do,
14:55such as they like to do what they like to do in their spare time.
14:58And there's a little bit of AI behind it.
15:00And then it will start to generate a profile of the kind of pathways
15:04that might be suitable for somebody who has these likes and dislikes.
15:07It will take you through some psychometric character questions
15:11and then it will start to say, OK, you could go to Monash
15:14or you could go to the Dutch universities, you could go to the US.
15:18Have you thought about Canada?
15:20And it will start to give you your prerequisites
15:22and it will start to direct you towards potential course options.
15:25And so bringing that piece of software down into the early years
15:28begins to sharpen people's ideas around what they want to do.
15:32And absolutely what you're saying is right around.
15:35There's some curriculum choices we need to make,
15:37but they're also the ethos of your school.
15:39Do you insist that children continue to do extracurriculum
15:42so that they can experience defeat,
15:45so that they can develop that resilience you were talking about
15:48in a context that's character building and forming rather than destroying?
15:52Because it's important that they have opportunities
15:55where they don't get their own way, particularly with children
15:57who do particularly well over time and maybe have never faced defeat.
16:00So extracurricular, sports, interests outside of the classroom,
16:05so that they can develop and not become narrow,
16:08but also so they can experience defeat.
16:10And sports is a key one for that.
16:13Yeah, and it also comes down to teaching.
16:17Also, sport comes down to, you know, work with the timelines.
16:21You know, work with teams and then losing and coming back
16:25and winning the next week.
16:28Opening up to the three of you, what about the input we have?
16:32We've got the software and the mentorships
16:34and all the opportunities that are available to students,
16:37but, I mean, what about the pressure from the family and the parents as well?
16:41How do you as a school cope if, you know, you've got this child
16:44that's starring in chemistry, but there's this pressure
16:47to go to Stanford that comes in as well that you're having to work with?
16:51Absolutely, and I think the pressure is both from the parents sometimes
16:55and sometimes the parents are understanding the students themselves
16:58are very, very aspirational and competitive and they set their goals
17:02and they just want to go there to the top universities.
17:05So the career counselling, as we've been talking about,
17:09and speaking to these leaders at school and speaking to other alumni
17:13who've gone through the same kind of process,
17:16these kind of interactions then help to build that awareness.
17:19If it's the parents who are over-aspirational
17:22or maybe the child wants to pursue psychology but they want them to be a doctor
17:26or especially in a community like Mumbai where parents are primarily Asian parents
17:32and they have their STEM goals and their own aspirations
17:35that they're wanting their children to become.
17:37So we do need to have a lot of counselling sessions for the parents sometimes
17:41and even sometimes for the children because they don't have a plan B.
17:45And it is very important for them to have a plan B and sometimes even a plan C.
17:50Because at the end of it, it's an exam on a day and anything can happen on that day
17:56and your results can go whichever way they are going.
17:59And when you're applying to a university who may have traditionally taken children
18:03with those grade levels, but the competition is only increasing year by year
18:07and the entry level requirements are becoming much more competitive.
18:12So that's why I think the focus of all of these schools with higher secondary students
18:16is to give them that edge.
18:18The edge which comes with all of these other extracurriculars,
18:22the edge which comes with a strong mental framework, emotional framework,
18:26as well as along with the academic framework and the skill set that we've been talking about.
18:30So it's not something that schools can do on a day like a February day and finish it there
18:36because it is something which is an ongoing process
18:39right from when you're entering middle school and talking about it.
18:43In fact, our school does and I'm sure many others do.
18:46We have a talk around dreams and aspirations right from the onset.
18:50It's something that we do with the primary schools.
18:52Even in the LDS, we introduce them to career days or people coming with their uniforms
18:59or the Dubai police or the fire brigade to get them to know about people with different professions.
19:04And they start having their affiliations set in sometimes with the context of the parents' aspirations,
19:11sometimes what they like, something they see in a movie perhaps.
19:15So there are so many factors which are making an impression on the young child's mind.
19:19And this is what we need to hone, need to look for, need to build up, need to guide
19:26right from the onset when these children are preparing on their journey.
19:30And having portfolios is a very important aspect,
19:34whether you build it through Unicroft as with the Gregorio,
19:37but even younger, having a simple book to start with and then an online system
19:42where they're just logging in, what they like doing and what they have achieved
19:46and all the certificates there gives them a sense of self-worth,
19:50gives them a sense of what they're good at or the areas which they may not be good at
19:54but might be required for the career that they're choosing for themselves.
19:57So all of those kinds of discussions are ongoing from a very early age
20:02and it's a collaborative process between the educating team and the parents and the child
20:08that we work on based on an individual and group level as well.
20:12Yes, so really, are you finding if someone puts in what they're good at and where they've achieved,
20:16there's also reflective learning?
20:18Are they then able to go back and go, you know, over the first half of this term,
20:22I was really good at these subjects but I always wanted to do this.
20:26Actually, you know what, maybe I should put my focus towards that.
20:28Yes, the target setting and goal setting is something which is an ongoing process.
20:34It is reviewed during our assessment cycles and it's okay.
20:38Sometimes children start with wanting to do something and over the time,
20:41they don't think this is their cup of tea.
20:43So they are also looking at similar options and it is the responsibility of the schools
20:47to provide that information around that area, you know.
20:51For example, somebody is very passionate about the field of medicine
20:55but maybe being a doctor is not what they want to be
20:58and they're excellent at AI or technology.
21:01So biomedical sciences, bioinformatics and there are a whole lot of these options available now
21:06that you can be in a field that you love but not be doing the job
21:10that was perhaps a few years back the only alternative for you to be in that part.
21:15Yesterday, you know, I had a family who walked into our kiosk and they were asking,
21:21so she wanted to do NEET.
21:22NEET is one of their competitive exams in a year for medicine
21:26and I asked her about, why do you want to do NEET?
21:29Oh, my friends are going for NEET so I would like to go there right now.
21:32I was explaining, oh, do you know what NEET is and what's the level of, you know,
21:36number of hours of efforts you need to put in.
21:40She had no food for it and then we explained that, you know, around medicine,
21:44there are a few other courses which would be in the same industry
21:49which may be achievable by you.
21:52But they did not know that.
21:54So the parents also need to be counseled with the students, I think.
22:01Yeah.
22:02Further to it, Paul, in your experience,
22:04what are some of the common mistakes you think students or families make
22:07when it comes to deciding on the right career path?
22:11I don't know how popular I'll be in the room because it's all parents.
22:16The big mistake children tend to make is doing what their parents want them to do
22:20and the big mistake parents make is assuming they know what their child should do.
22:26What you need there is a lot of honesty and you need to know your children very well
22:30and you need to know your community very well.
22:32If you need to have a conversation, too many times I've sat with parents who say,
22:35he's going to do this, she's going to do this, and then two days later,
22:38the child's in the corridor going, we don't want to do that.
22:41How do we have that conversation?
22:43Is that one of the hardest things as a teacher?
22:45I wouldn't say it's the hardest.
22:47It's one of the most challenging conversations.
22:50In this city, in this context, parents are paying a good amount of money
22:55for the school to educate their child.
22:57They have certain expectations about what their children may be able to do.
23:00They have certain aspirations and hopes.
23:03And children do change their mind.
23:05For a school to undermine the hopes that a family might have
23:09and then a child two or three years later says,
23:11oh, no, actually, I really did want to do that,
23:13but my school let me do something completely different, so I'm not there.
23:16So negotiating those discussions and being very honest with parents
23:20will ultimately allow families to make decisions that they feel are in their best interest.
23:24The best we can do is guide, support, and where we need to,
23:28to have honest conversations that those final decisions do need to be made.
23:33That sounds pretty clear. You wanted to add?
23:35Yeah, I mean, being working with older children for all my life,
23:39except for the last two, three years now,
23:41because my school is only a women's school now,
23:43but there is always that fine line that educators are always walking
23:49while they're having these kind of discussions
23:51because you don't want to be the person who has taken away from them a career
23:55which they could have probably succeeded in
23:58had you given equal opportunity for that parental aspiration to also weigh in
24:04while they were making those discussions
24:06because we've had those later discussions
24:08where they've come back doing a course that they were very, very keen on
24:11and they didn't find it giving them what they thought it would give them.
24:16So then there are those regrets later on,
24:19but the good thing now is that a career is not fixed in today's world.
24:23You can study something and you can change your major in the university.
24:27You can study something, finish your graduation,
24:30and then do something else altogether.
24:32You can also work in a field for some years,
24:35do what you want to achieve in that,
24:37find it's not meeting your purpose anymore
24:39or your aspirations have changed along the way,
24:41and switch on to a different career.
24:43So that open-mindedness to this from a parent's perspective,
24:47student's perspective at the school is very important,
24:50and it is also important for us to realize
24:53that we need to give them the right basic skill set,
24:58the ability to understand, reflect, evaluate, critically think,
25:03and work together to meet that successful goal,
25:06whether it is whatever you choose to become,
25:08because you only become successful if you work hard,
25:11in whichever field or area you might choose to be, right?
25:15And if you're resilient, and if you can overcome failures.
25:17So those are the skills that fundamentally we need to talk,
25:21but yes, you always are playing this game of balancing,
25:24guiding, stepping back, stepping forth,
25:26in order, looking at every individual case is different.
25:29Sometimes the children are in real distress
25:32because of the pressure the parents have put in,
25:34or because their cousin did something,
25:36or their sister did something.
25:37We've got lots of cases where the elder child is very bright,
25:41and has therefore set those high expectations
25:43of academic achievement in the environment.
25:45And the pressure on the other kids.
25:46And the pressure on the other kids,
25:47and they might not even be interested academically.
25:49They might be a brilliant sports person,
25:51or a musician, or whatever, but the pressure is so high.
25:54And I have personally seen students break down,
25:57fall out of school, not being able to complete
26:00at all, because your mind is very precious
26:03while you are doing all of this pressure intake.
26:06And not all children's brains, or minds,
26:08or emotions are yet strong enough.
26:10So it's therefore always that balance
26:12of the school guidance counselor,
26:14the school experience counselor,
26:16the academic team, the parents and students.
26:18You really need to look at individuals,
26:20and see who can take what pressure,
26:22and what aspirations they have,
26:24and then how to work together to get on with that path.
26:28Well, we've got three very passionate people here.
26:30Any questions?
26:31Does anyone have any questions
26:32in regards to the education program?
26:34Teachers, anything?
26:35We've got three great people you can work on.
26:38One of the questions I want to have
26:39is in regards to those stories about mentorships,
26:42about people coming in.
26:44How important is it to get people
26:45not only to share their industry?
26:47Someone, as you said, they might want to do robotics,
26:50or AI, and they realise actually there's a pathway
26:52for me in medicine to do this.
26:54And how important is it to get people
26:55to share their story about how
26:58they wanted to go down a certain path,
27:00but due to trauma or tragedy or something,
27:03they had to do a complete 180
27:05before they realised where they need to go,
27:08the joy of life sometimes.
27:11Making a mistake or something goes wrong
27:13puts you in the path you were destined to.
27:15Is that part of the mentorship program as well?
27:17Absolutely.
27:18I think even though we are not
27:19a very secondary school as yet,
27:21but even we've been getting people
27:23from the field, from the industry.
27:26For example, there was this Emirati gentleman
27:28who was an engineer by profession,
27:30but he is UAE's or Middle East's
27:33only classical singer for Arabic language.
27:37So getting people like that who had
27:39some other training, but then had
27:41some aspiration or hobby or interest
27:43that they wanted to pursue as a passion.
27:46Those kind of people are people with needs.
27:49Because we are a society where the children
27:51with special needs are increasing.
27:53So what kind of options are we giving to those parents?
27:55What kind of options are we giving to those children?
27:58So having people coming to the school
28:00who may be having some needs and are successful
28:02in their own careers and lives,
28:04or authors, or musicians, or sports people,
28:08including then the bank professionals
28:10or doctors or the other traditional
28:12chapter 5s that we have.
28:14So making sure your student body is aware
28:18and they have this openness to having
28:21those discussions with you as a school,
28:23that you are there for them,
28:25getting them to give that confidence,
28:27and then giving them this exposure.
28:29Whether you take them outside to those places,
28:32to factories, to industries, to space centres,
28:34to libraries, or whether you have those experts
28:37visiting your school to give them those talks.
28:40Parents do lovely career counseling,
28:43because they all come from a different background.
28:45They're all professionals in something or the other.
28:47That's a wonderful resource that we have at our schools.
28:50So parents, whether through Zoom,
28:51or they're coming to school, talking to their children,
28:53I'm a bank professional, this is what I did,
28:55I trained here.
28:57Like, for example, myself,
28:59I have done my PhD in chemistry.
29:01In order to start my product,
29:03I needed to achieve a certain first product to be done.
29:06I failed 11 times.
29:08And if I had given it up at that point in time,
29:11I wouldn't have been able to achieve.
29:13So there are lots of people like us,
29:15real people, working with them,
29:17who we can relate to, who can give them
29:19this kind of context, and understanding,
29:21and experience, which works far more.
29:24And it's very inspiring when children listen to them,
29:27and they come back and tell us,
29:28I want to do this.
29:30It's a little bit of the more traditional values
29:32of storytelling and vulnerability.
29:34Yeah.
29:35Children, sometimes, are the people who are successful,
29:38and assume they've always been successful.
29:40And when they hear a story,
29:42and when they see some vulnerability,
29:44somebody who is highly successful,
29:46who wasn't always highly successful,
29:49they understand their own context.
29:51Yeah, exactly my point.
29:52Because I was teaching chemistry to ASN level,
29:54and they said,
29:55you have a PhD, and you know everything.
29:57So you have all the right answers.
29:59But then I had to tell them,
30:00no, I didn't have all the right answers.
30:02And in spite of whatever I had done,
30:04I still failed in so many places.
30:07So that connectivity, relativity,
30:09the experience of real life, real people, real stories,
30:13and not just us, many other people.
30:15I've listened to fashion, yes.
30:17Also, when entrepreneurs come in,
30:19usually entrepreneurs are people
30:21who are doing something totally different
30:24from what they have learned strongly.
30:26And to learn from them,
30:28then how do they actually start on the journey?
30:30What was their experience?
30:32Entrepreneurs are always there.
30:33Entrepreneurs, I think,
30:34they have always been there.
30:36Absolutely.
30:37And sometimes entrepreneurs talk about failing better.
30:40Yeah.
30:41And learning each time they come through.
30:44Touching on what you said, Paul,
30:46what's the reaction from students
30:48that you're seeing when someone comes in
30:51who's got the appearance of being successful
30:53and they share their story and they go,
30:55I failed here.
30:56This didn't work.
30:57I failed here.
30:58It took me a few hits to rebound and become where I am.
31:02You see, I was having a conversation
31:04with a year 10 boy there every week.
31:06And he was talking about he didn't need a career
31:09because everybody he knew who was successful
31:11didn't have a career.
31:13And I was trying to understand what that meant for him.
31:15But they've got wealth and they haven't got a career.
31:18He said, do you want to go away and do some research
31:20and come back to me about how they developed that wealth?
31:22And he came back the next day and he went,
31:24oh, they had careers before.
31:26So there's an assumption that you do one thing,
31:29you design an app, you make lots of money.
31:32And I think what you have to do is
31:34you have to gently erode some of those assumptions
31:36that are misplaced.
31:38And you have to put stories in the context
31:40of children's real experience.
31:42And you have to repeat that significantly over time.
31:45In order for that to become knowledge
31:47rather than a soundbite that somebody's given you.
31:50I agree with you, it's not a career statement
31:52that you do and then you've done that.
31:54It's about the consistent stories
31:56of those who've been successful and those who haven't.
31:58Particularly those who haven't and who were.
32:01And role models that individuals can connect to.
32:04It might be something about their story,
32:06their background, their setting.
32:08Or something about the challenges they face
32:10that they can see connection in.
32:12We always know we've had a successful,
32:14we call it a breakfast quiz,
32:16we always know we've had a successful careers clinic
32:18on a Tuesday, when the children leave
32:20and half a dozen stay to speak to the speaker.
32:22Because they just want to ask them,
32:24when that happened to you,
32:26when you made that change,
32:28or when you decided you didn't want to do that
32:30and you wanted to do this,
32:32can you tell me more about that?
32:34So again, if there were a single response to it
32:36or a single answer, I'd stop doing this
32:38and I'd go around the world to schools.
32:40Having a consistent program over time,
32:42having that program as varied as it can be,
32:44lots of honesty and lots of
32:46compelling stories that children can hear.
32:48It's funny, but I'll get to your question next,
32:51because when I went back and went to a high school
32:53and spoke about my career as a radio announcer
32:55and my failings, all the class were going to say back.
32:57I thought, oh, this is good.
32:59I've made a breakthrough.
33:00They just wanted to know more about the famous people up there.
33:02So, didn't have much to do with me.
33:04That happened to you?
33:06Yeah, that's right. You had a question?
33:08We're starting our academic career here in Dubai
33:11and I wanted to know,
33:13if you have this knowledge,
33:14do they do a career attitude test
33:16in the school settings here?
33:19So, it depends on the age of the child.
33:21Sorry, it depends on the age of the child
33:23that the child is entering into.
33:25Most schools do have some kind of
33:27a preliminary assessment
33:29when they take children in.
33:30Many schools also use what we have,
33:32the Cognitive Ability Test, the CAP4,
33:34which is a GL-based test,
33:37which is a cognitive test
33:38and not connected to any curriculum background or anything.
33:41So, they use that primarily as a guiding light
33:45to understand the skill set
33:46for which a cognitive ability is stronger
33:49or needs help in or where the child is.
33:52But then, as they're growing to secondary,
33:54different schools have got different ways
33:56of working around this.
33:58But there is some other program already in place
34:00in our secondary schools in Dubai
34:02which would be guiding and then assessing the children
34:05on a more career-oriented skill understanding
34:10and assessment profiles.
34:12So, it depends again where your child is,
34:14what is their age and what they are doing.
34:16I think career profile is challenging
34:19because young people change over the journey through school.
34:22Also, it would make an assumption that a school
34:25is unable to define a pathway for somebody
34:28and we need to be mindful not to do that.
34:31So, you're looking at aspects that you have already,
34:34which is their academic progress,
34:36how well they're doing across their subjects,
34:38their character, their involvement
34:40in extracurricular activities.
34:41And then you can start to look at these software
34:43like you've got at the start.
34:46Because career profiling is based on interest,
34:48so they don't ask directly,
34:50they ask indirect questions.
34:52And they begin, what do you like,
34:53what do you enjoy doing,
34:54what do you do in your spare time,
34:55what subjects do you enjoy,
34:56what do you enjoy about those subjects?
34:58And from those questions,
34:59they'll begin to generate some potential pathways
35:02but it remains very broad at the age of 14, 15, 16.
35:07I think we want to avoid narrowing children's choices
35:10and funneling them into something
35:12that might not actually be their interest too early.
35:15So, I think it's about having a range of information
35:19you have about a young person.
35:21And then about knowing that they're
35:22wanting open discussions with you.
35:24Any other questions, anyone?
35:26Yes?
35:27What are your thoughts about students
35:30using AI for assignments?
35:32And how do you guys end up in this, you know?
35:36Well, if you put into challenging BT or OpenAI,
35:40have you produced this assignment?
35:42It will tell you whether or not it's produced it or not.
35:44We can't tell the children that.
35:46I think it will radically transform schooling.
35:52It will, for example,
35:55I'm a history and geography teacher
35:57and if I wanted children to look at some models
35:59of exemplary responses to certain similar questions,
36:04I either need to have them from previous pupils
36:07or I need to write them myself.
36:10Or today, I could go to ChatGPT
36:12and ask them to give me five responses
36:14at different grades to a particular question
36:16to a later history question.
36:18And ChatGPT will give that to me about a third or second.
36:23If I wanted a programme of study for six weeks,
36:27for a seven-year group on a particular topic,
36:29broken down into eight different lessons
36:31with assessment of two points,
36:34pieces of AI will give teachers that
36:36in two or three seconds.
36:38So it will change the way in which teachers
36:40can generate material,
36:41can generate programmes of study,
36:43and can think about curriculum development.
36:45And more profoundly, it will alter the way
36:47in which we have to think about the validity
36:49of student responses that aren't generated
36:51in front of us.
36:53But we have to think more creatively than that.
36:55And we actually have to work out a way
36:57that we can use the technology
36:59in a creative way to support children
37:01to do great work.
37:03And so we have to start thinking about it as a threat.
37:07I will just give a context.
37:08It's just about 30 years back
37:10thinking computers are going to be damaging.
37:12They will take away from the learning.
37:14It's the same thing about calculators
37:16being allowed in mathematics exams.
37:18So we've gone over all of these revolutions
37:21and AI at this point in time
37:23stands to be that transformative revolution.
37:25We have to think of ethical ways
37:27to use AI in teaching and learning.
37:29And it's not just about students at school.
37:31It's about what's happening at universities as well.
37:33And there is where they're going to
37:35just come out into careers.
37:37So how much is there independent work
37:39and how much is it work from the AI?
37:41All those contexts have greater relevance there.
37:43Our children are still younger.
37:45They would get time to grow over it
37:47and we would find ways to work with it
37:49and overcome the negative points around it.
37:52But it is something to be embraced, I feel,
37:54like all technology changes and all transformations,
37:57but with always understanding
37:59where to put a limit
38:01and how to use it in the best interest.
38:03And that's not just AI or tragicity.
38:05The bigger threat,
38:07and I'm sure teachers would agree,
38:09the biggest threat to students
38:11is the unsupervised
38:13or supervised use of social media.
38:16They're getting more damage done to them
38:18by using apps that are not meant for them
38:21and reaching out to content
38:23which they shouldn't have had.
38:25And parents need to supervise that at home.
38:28It's okay. You need to supervise
38:30because we deal with students
38:32where they go through greater turmoil
38:34and pressure and unnecessary exposure
38:37to absolutely unsafe content
38:39through all of that rather than interactivity
38:42or any of these AI tools that we're talking about.
38:45Yeah, it's a tough time for students also
38:47with the pressure that they've got on them.
38:49But further to the point you made initially, Paul,
38:51we've got AI, we need to work with it,
38:53we need to embrace, but sometimes
38:55when it comes to testing or the end of exams,
38:57you made the point that we may have to go back
38:59and start going back to traditionally
39:01writing essays in exams
39:03or going back to giving a standing up
39:05or giving a presentation.
39:07Is that what you're more looking at so it's got to be done
39:09in the moment so it hasn't been
39:11plagiarised or something?
39:13I think that's some thinking
39:15we need to have.
39:17The days of coursework,
39:19essays that have been completed
39:21at home and submitted,
39:23if we assume that they're not being
39:25in some way constructed, informed
39:27or even written through pieces
39:29of disruptive technology as educators
39:31are ignoring the reality,
39:33then how do we have a valid,
39:35consistent and reliable assessment
39:37if we're unsure around
39:39the access to those technologies?
39:41So I think
39:43to move back to three hours
39:45and three essay questions,
39:47I think you're quite right,
39:49but I think you're right around
39:51some of the ways in which presentations,
39:53the building on the
39:55presentations of models
39:57of excellence, etc.
39:59We're now an R&D school,
40:01and I hesitate to say it's my principal's work,
40:03some of the aspects of
40:05TOK for example in the IB
40:07where if they move from
40:09an essay into the presentation
40:11of your ideas that you then are interrogated
40:13on and you have to discuss,
40:15I think the movement
40:17towards assessment that is both soft and hard
40:19but even moment, I think is likely
40:21the direction of travel over the next decade.
40:23If I could just add to that a bit,
40:25just a bit, because again
40:27the assessment system varies from curriculum
40:29to curriculum. So for example,
40:31the British curriculum has traditional tests
40:33at the end of the GCSEs and
40:35at the end of the S&A level. There is no check
40:37of an AI unless they get fired or something
40:39and they bring it back.
40:41And in the curriculum as well,
40:43it's still very traditionalistic in its assessment
40:45systems. So yes, but
40:47as a community of educators, that balance
40:49needs to be kept in mind
40:51and thoughtful
40:53understanding of how assessments
40:55proceed in different conditions, keeping all of this
40:57AI is important.
40:59Any final questions from anyone
41:01before we finish up? Just lastly
41:03on the three of you, final thoughts
41:05if you were to give one piece of advice
41:07to a student and a family
41:09starting with you, what do you think
41:11would you give as if you can simplify it?
41:13One piece of advice?
41:15That's challenging.
41:17But I think
41:19listening carefully
41:21to your own
41:23wants as students is
41:25important.
41:27I don't think it changes
41:29over time despite all the changes
41:31around the environment following your passions.
41:33I think facilitating
41:35is very important, getting them
41:37to explore, giving them the opportunities
41:39to experience different things
41:41because that's only when they would know
41:43what works for them or what they like doing
41:45if they don't get that exposure
41:47by the family or by the school
41:49then they would have very limited experiences
41:51and they would not be able to
41:53perhaps make a more informed choice.
41:55Well, it's been a great session.
41:57Please give a round of applause to our speakers.
42:03Ladies and gentlemen,
42:05we're joined here by the International School
42:07Paul Rye is the head of a secondary partner
42:09and Ritika Anand, the principal of the New York
42:11Private School. Finches up Golf News
42:13as the edge of their special focusing on
42:15schools and nurseries. We'll see you at the next
42:17edge of golf news. Thank you very much.