Dr Jean Shahdadpuri, Managing Director, Nikai Group of Companies, Muna Al Ghurair, Head of Marketing & Corporate Communications, Mashreq and Shamsa Al Falasi,CEO,UAE Onshore, Citi Bank.
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00:00So this is our first panel of the day,
00:02Navigating the Boardroom, Strategies for Success.
00:05We'll be exploring boardroom dynamics,
00:07discovering effective negotiating strategies
00:09and leadership styles in the corporate boardroom,
00:12and learning from our panelists' experiences
00:15in breaking through the glass ceiling.
00:17I'm Noni Edwards.
00:18I'm a journalist and broadcaster.
00:20I'd like to briefly introduce our panelists today
00:23so we can get underway without further ado.
00:26So we have Jean Shadadpuri on the end,
00:28Dr. Jean Shadadpuri.
00:29She's the Managing Director of the Nikkei Group of Companies
00:32and co-founder and Chief Medical Officer
00:34of Ardent Consulting.
00:36Please welcome Mashreq's Group Head of Marketing
00:39and Corporate Communications, Mouna Al-Ghoreh.
00:42Hi.
00:43Hi.
00:44Hi.
00:44Hi.
00:45Hi.
00:46And Shamsa Al-Falasi, the CEO of UAE Onshore at Citibank.
00:51Good afternoon, everyone.
00:53Let's dive straight in.
00:54I'll start with you, Dr. Jean.
00:56Speaking of breaking through glass ceilings,
01:00with your 20 years of expertise
01:01in both the consumer tech and healthcare industries,
01:04you've reached the C-suite in both arenas
01:06and smashed through not one but two glass ceilings.
01:10What unique insights can you share with us
01:12on navigating boardroom dynamics?
01:16So thank you, first of all,
01:17for inviting me to this amazing get-together.
01:20And it's a special day,
01:21although I don't think we need
01:23an International Women's Day to celebrate every day, right?
01:26Every day is a celebration for being a woman.
01:30But pleasure to be a part of these events.
01:32So it's really helpful to learn from a lot of insights
01:36and co-panelists and speakers.
01:40So thank you, everyone.
01:42Let me address Nooni's question.
01:44So yes, I did break two glass ceilings,
01:48and rest assured I was wounded and scarred.
01:53So it wasn't easy.
01:54Definitely not easy.
01:56But essentially, I don't know if it's not easy just for me
02:00or if it's not easy for anybody to reach there, right?
02:02So you have to start knowing very deeply
02:06the subject you are in, the field you're in,
02:09and the industry.
02:10And then you've got to know
02:11the skillset of managing human capital.
02:16I think hiring good teams, having a clear vision,
02:20and having a very focused,
02:23very focused yet accurate approach
02:26to any problem that you're solving.
02:28U.S. healthcare, as I guess everybody knows,
02:32is not the perfect system.
02:34It's pretty broken, and we're trillions of dollars
02:37in deficit.
02:38And there is a reason for that.
02:40It's not that we're not the best.
02:42It's not that we don't have the skillset,
02:44but the way we are managing it is not right.
02:47So we started managing healthcare,
02:50called Manage Healthcare in California,
02:51and did it very well.
02:53Of course, you have to set an example.
02:55You have to lead by example.
02:56You have to get outcomes and results,
02:57and that's how we were able to go to the federal level
03:01and implement Affordable Care Act,
03:04Obamacare across the nation.
03:07So C-level comes with a lot of accountability
03:11and responsibility, so it's not always fun.
03:14But one thing is that you've got to have a good team,
03:17so your team is your pillar.
03:19But you've got to have a very clear strategic direction
03:23in where you're going and how you're gonna get there,
03:24and carry your team along and celebrate the little wins.
03:28Realize where your obstacles and hurdles are
03:31and strategize around it.
03:33I'm sure all these people, first of all,
03:35these two look like they've just gotten out of college.
03:39But honestly, it takes a lot of experience,
03:44and it's learnings along the way,
03:46so I wouldn't say it was easy.
03:48Here in this region, I understand this region very well.
03:51This region has a unique dynamic of being very nurturing,
03:57providing a lot of collaborative support.
04:00We have the Ajman Free Zone leader here,
04:04and they're all right about,
04:06they do think about diversity inclusion,
04:08they do think about collaboration,
04:10they do wanna enable and facilitate.
04:14I'm not seeing anything like the way UAE leadership does it.
04:18It's probably unique in this region as well.
04:22Glad to know that I'm in a country
04:24which is ahead of the curve
04:25and definitely progressing towards the right direction.
04:30Thank you very much, Dr. Jeanne.
04:33Moving into consumer finance now,
04:34Muna Al-Khair, with your wealth of experience
04:37in financial services, branding, PR, and marketing,
04:41could you please be so kind as to share your insights
04:43on how gender diversity within boardrooms
04:46impacts corporate decision-making and marketing strategies?
04:49I think it's not just a metric
04:54when we talk about women in the boardroom.
04:56It is a strategic way for organizations
05:02to drive better decision-making, better financial results.
05:06It actually drives growth
05:09and I would say effective governance, innovation.
05:15I've come across women who bring unique experience
05:21on the table, I would say.
05:24In the span of at least the years that I've worked for,
05:29I've observed women in leadership,
05:31they definitely bring forward a diverse opinion
05:36in everything they do.
05:41What else can I remember?
05:42Hold on.
05:44And I think the fact that they are unique
05:48and they come with a unique set
05:50and skills itself talks a lot.
05:54And they have these authentic style of leadership
05:57where they're empathetic, yet decisive in strength.
06:02I think at Mashrek, we were able to have a 36%
06:06of gender diversity, which goes without saying,
06:11it's a crucial milestone where it talks
06:15about how much the region and the organizations
06:19are having importance of these gender diversity
06:24empowering women in paving the path
06:27for future women to take leadership roles.
06:34So moving on to leadership styles now,
06:37Shams Al-Falassi, as well as your role as CEO at Citi,
06:40you're also a board member
06:41at the American Business Council here in Dubai.
06:44How do you find your own boardroom leadership styles
06:47differ between those two roles?
06:49First of all, good afternoon, everyone.
06:51And thank you for being She and Gulf News
06:53for having us today.
06:54And kudos to the men in the room
06:56for celebrating International Women's Day.
06:58Happy International Women's Day to everyone.
07:01So I will answer the question from two perspective.
07:07The first one from an American Chamber of Commerce,
07:11we act as a voice of American businesses in the UAE.
07:15So on regular basis, we have to rely a lot
07:17on the feedback they do share with us,
07:19because ultimately, we need to be the advocates
07:22on what they would like to achieve,
07:23challenges they face, opportunities where we can help them.
07:26So a lot of the board style that we usually work on
07:32is collaborative, innovative, as well as nowadays,
07:37we're focusing a lot on making it sustainable as well.
07:39So a part of it and the way we play a very big role
07:42as women, and by the way, we do have around 40% of women
07:46on the board of AmCham Dubai,
07:48which has been a continued focus for us.
07:53The value that we actually bring in as we challenge,
07:56we usually speak up in terms of the feedback
07:59we receive from our clients.
08:01We do have multiple of committees that we work on.
08:05Some of them are very much current
08:07in terms of the subjects that they discuss.
08:09And we play a very big role as females being on the board,
08:12because a very big skill that we actually are born with,
08:16we're very much, we have the empathy.
08:21Therefore, we very much rely on communicating with people,
08:25getting closer to people, and really understanding
08:28their perspective when we deliver those sort of messages.
08:31So ultimately, it becomes very powerful,
08:34as well as it becomes very much driven and supportive
08:38in terms of business growth.
08:40I know Matias talked about profit.
08:42It's extremely important to all of us.
08:44But ultimately, being in a position to communicate
08:48and to deliver that message with innovative way
08:52is extremely important.
08:53The other part that I wanted to quickly touch base on,
08:56because we also have an executive management team
08:59within Citi, where we also have roughly around
09:03close to 40% as well.
09:06It's a very big team.
09:07And we've also used a lot of skills in terms of,
09:11you know, discussing a lot of important topics to us,
09:14very current, very much business driven.
09:17We live in a very central location,
09:20whereby there is never a dull moment.
09:22There's always something going on,
09:23additional business coming our way.
09:25But reflecting back on the pandemic,
09:28and thankfully, it's behind us now,
09:30it was an eye opener in terms of the role
09:32that women actually can play.
09:34When we've seen women at the time,
09:36making decisions to leave the workforce
09:38and focusing on other areas,
09:40we've realized the impact that they were making
09:44by being part of, you know, the board, the management team,
09:49the contribution that they make,
09:51as well as pushing the company all together
09:54in terms of being much more inclusive, much more diverse,
09:58as well as keeping them on track in terms of profitability,
10:01which continues to be extremely important
10:03to us as a bank as well.
10:06I think the pandemic also shed a lot of light
10:09on the concept of work-life balance.
10:11Absolutely, yes.
10:12Some for and some against.
10:13Yes.
10:14Thank you so much.
10:15Dr. Jean, so from the UAE perspective,
10:18Aurora 50 recently announced that the UAE's efforts
10:21to improve gender diversity had resulted
10:23in the number of women on listed UAE boards
10:26more than doubling from 3.5% in 2020 to 8.9% in 2022.
10:33This follows the implementation of a quota in 2021
10:37by the Securities and Commodities Authority
10:39of one woman listed per UAE board
10:42by the Emirates Securities and Commodities Authority.
10:45So in your view, just simply,
10:47what is your view on the role of quotas?
10:50Are they a positive?
10:51Are they a negative?
10:53What do you think?
10:55So I have two perspectives on it
10:57and I don't mean to be controversial, but.
11:00Please do.
11:02I think quotas in general as a concept
11:08is given to the underprivileged
11:09and that's where I have a problem with.
11:12I think each position and each person
11:15needs to be deserving of the role,
11:18needs to have a mastery or expertise on the subject matter.
11:25And shouldn't be given any extra privileges
11:30or extra favor by getting on the board or on any seat.
11:36So I believe in equal effort.
11:38I mean, in today's day and age,
11:40I think we have men supporting us throughout our journeys,
11:44right from families to, I mean, he spoke about his daughter.
11:49I mean, I bet she's the current boss, right?
11:54So fathers have encouraged us,
11:56grandfathers have encouraged us,
11:58brothers, cousins, husbands, sons, right?
12:02So I don't see that as the same as it was
12:06maybe a few decades ago.
12:08Also, the whole concept of women empowerment,
12:11I feel we don't have to seek anyone's permission.
12:15We don't have to seek power to be given to us.
12:18I think it's all within
12:20and people just have to look inwards
12:22and kind of work on yourself
12:24and keep learning and keep evolving.
12:26And then you eventually get where you want.
12:29I mean, you just have to need it enough, want it enough,
12:33so bad that you have nothing but that objective in mind.
12:37And I don't see how the gender could be a hurdle
12:42in anyone's trajectory in their career.
12:45So quotas, I don't know,
12:49but maybe different regions of the world
12:51probably is more relevant.
12:54Some regions that actually need that poll,
12:57but I think making it mandatory
12:58kind of disadvantages the other people.
13:01And so that's where I differ a little bit, but.
13:04Can I add actually to Dr. Jean?
13:06And I consider us lucky in the UAE
13:09because it's something that we grew up with
13:10in terms of supporting women overall
13:12and opening doors for them.
13:14But as Dr. Ismail mentioned,
13:18there has been a lot of support across different industries.
13:21Having said that, having quotas,
13:23extremely important messaging to reiterate to the women
13:27that you are expected to get to that point.
13:30So you have the support, you have the network,
13:35so you need to now be accountable to grow
13:38and get to where you need to be.
13:40Because we've seen people actually
13:42moving in mid-level outside.
13:44It's really lovely to get both of those perspectives.
13:47Muna, how do you mentor and support the women?
13:50If we're speaking about the pipeline of talent,
13:52how do you mentor and support the women around you
13:54in your industry financial services?
13:58I think back in the day, people would,
14:01I mean, especially youngsters who would be interns,
14:05and I've mentored many,
14:07they would come and say,
14:08oh, can I be your mentee and mentor?
14:11And then you get into this whole emotional ride with them
14:15because you're trying to fill the professional gap.
14:18And then you're also trying to tell them,
14:21please take all the opportunities that help you grow
14:25and prove yourself and keep on proving yourself.
14:28And then you go ahead and advocate
14:30a couple of courses for them.
14:32And it's a serious relationship.
14:35These mentorship is quite serious.
14:38And then while you're in the turmoil,
14:41I realized that a mentorship is nothing
14:47but you help them define their career path
14:52and help them achieve it.
14:54So you could go ahead and advocate a lot of courses
14:57and all of that, but that's not going to help at all.
15:00If you are in an executive position,
15:03if you don't have the power to elevate them to next level,
15:08or promote them, or move the needle in their career,
15:12this has no value.
15:14So this is for me.
15:16I mean, if anybody at all thinks of mentorship,
15:20they have to think of the impact
15:21that you have on that person.
15:24I suppose it would be very easy to sit there and think,
15:26I think you would be great for this.
15:28I think this is the path you should go on.
15:31But if it doesn't resonate, there'll be no impact.
15:34No, because ideally they're coming to you,
15:36you are in this executive position
15:38and then you are their role model.
15:41And they like how your journey was.
15:45And then they're expecting to map this somehow.
15:48And you are completely constrained
15:51and you don't have power within you to sort of,
15:54probably this person isn't even in your department.
15:57So then you go around and say, oh, this person is great,
16:01whatever, but if that power is not within you
16:03to promote or elevate them,
16:05and then you see them after your mentorship
16:07just going down the drain and leaving your organization,
16:09that's quite sad, yeah.
16:12That must cut.
16:12Yeah, but that's my view.
16:17Shamsa, I was looking at Deloitte's
16:19Global Boardroom Program.
16:21They produce the Women in Boardroom Report
16:23and the most recent one, the seventh edition,
16:26a couple of the questions that were raised there
16:29in amongst all of it, I mean, there's a lot in there,
16:32but some of the questions I pulled out,
16:34are the same women joining all boards
16:38and why are women occupying board seats
16:40for fewer years than men?
16:43Is there a small pool of very, very resourceful women
16:47who are doing the rounds?
16:49So a couple of things,
16:50and I've already touched base on one of them.
16:53Previously, it's the perception that women had.
16:57It's been a long journey for them.
16:59Obviously, there wasn't as much focus
17:01in terms of diversity and inclusion for organizations,
17:04but they really realize the negative impact
17:08and consequences when things started not to go on track
17:12based on what they wanted.
17:13Therefore, you will notice that a lot of women,
17:16they reach the mid-career level, for example,
17:19and then they have second thoughts about,
17:21should I continue or should I be leaving?
17:24Will I get the opportunities?
17:25You typically, within the mid-level range,
17:29things become much more challenging, difficult,
17:31and therefore, you need to reinvent
17:36in terms of how you would want to see your career
17:38or which path you would like to take.
17:40In terms of mentorship and coaching,
17:42this is an extremely important and crucial stage
17:45for women to actually go through the process
17:48because ultimately, there are a lot of things
17:50that we will lose sight of.
17:52We tend to be on cruise control.
17:54We don't usually think about what else is possible.
17:58We don't reach out to ask for help.
18:00So all of these points are extremely important,
18:03and what I'm getting with that
18:04is when people seek the right support during that time,
18:08when they feel frustrated
18:09and they might need to take different perception,
18:13typically, it really helps them stay on track
18:16and continue to get to management level,
18:19executive management level, and ultimately to the board.
18:21Things have been changing
18:22because there is much more awareness taking place nowadays,
18:26and therefore, you see a lot of women
18:29are holding seats on boards nowadays.
18:32The other part is there has been much more awareness
18:35in terms of organizations,
18:38as well as internship companies
18:40to bring in much more talent.
18:42Thirdly, governments are also pushing for it
18:44because they've seen the positive impact
18:46of growth of businesses, innovative ideas coming up,
18:51and much more of a sustainable growth of these companies
18:54that they're leading.
18:55So it's ultimately, it has been a very positive outcome,
18:59and we will continue to see it grow.
19:00Are we where we want to be?
19:02Not yet, but we are at least on track.
19:05But just a quick follow-up there.
19:07I mean, it seems like you are very much
19:08ahead of the global curve.
19:10I mean, Deloitte's talking about global trends here,
19:12but I mean, it seems very much that we're ahead of that.
19:16So one of the things, for example,
19:18that I'm really proud of being at Citi, for example,
19:21is they've been focusing on diversity and inclusion now
19:24for at least, I would say, a minimum of 10 years,
19:28whereby they decided to hold themselves accountable
19:32and start disclosing the development
19:35that we are having for women.
19:37So we ensured that we have coaching, mentorship,
19:40as well as we usually disclose the percentages
19:43of women in management positions.
19:46So this is something, we are in 95 countries
19:48at the end of the day.
19:49We don't, we are not equally doing the same thing across,
19:54but we're putting the right messaging across,
19:57and it's coming from the management
19:59all the way to all the countries.
20:01The other point is that I wanted to highlight.
20:03We've been focusing on, from a hiring process,
20:06ensuring that we have 50% women, 50% men,
20:10not only focusing on women, because ultimately,
20:12we need to build our allies as well
20:14who will help us develop.
20:15Second point, in terms of mentorship, development,
20:18to continue that mid-level, you know,
20:21getting into a higher level,
20:23and thirdly, also providing them with opportunities.
20:27In terms of focus, from an executive management,
20:31we roughly have around 26%, that's at the global level,
20:34in terms of women holding places now.
20:37From a board, we have more than 53% sitting on the board,
20:41which is fantastic, and in the UAE,
20:45roughly the women, as I said, across the entire population
20:49is about 40%, but the managing directors globally
20:53is about 30%, which is a very high rank
20:56in the corporate world, and extremely difficult to get to.
20:58So there is a lot of focus.
21:00We're trying to share best practices
21:02with organizations that we work with,
21:04you know, the governments in countries we operate in,
21:07but it requires and determines a lot of push
21:09and focus and continuity.
21:12I can tell you, you're proud of those figures,
21:15as you should be, yeah.
21:17Dr. Jean, how important is the female voice
21:23in the boardroom?
21:24Is there a direct link between female representation
21:27and company performance?
21:29So, a simple link.
21:31A study, and I'm actually blanking out
21:35on the name of the study, but you must look that up.
21:38Actually, and from a reliable source,
21:40showed increase in profitability
21:43the moment they included women on the board.
21:47I mean, this was not the executive level, but at the board.
21:51And they showed that the companies
21:53that had more women on the board
21:55were actually more profitable.
21:57And some of the things that they talked about was,
22:01you know, just to give you an example of what she said,
22:03like the mentor-mentee relationship, right?
22:06So for a woman, the moment they have a child,
22:09you know, this child looks up to the mother, right?
22:11So you're kind of always in that mode
22:15of how do I make my child better?
22:17How do I make them better than themselves,
22:20make them learn from their mistakes,
22:23make them learn from our mistakes?
22:26And you try to be that role model 24 hours a day, right?
22:31That same mindset actually comes into a corporate setup
22:35where now you are looking at a mentee.
22:37And I've always looked at mentees not as a,
22:40I have to fix them or I have to make sure they're successful,
22:44but kind of at least have them savvy enough
22:48to identify their weaknesses, strengths, opportunities,
22:53the roadmap, how to navigate through the hurdles
22:56and the challenges.
22:57Definitely something that I have learned from mistakes.
23:00I'm always very particular about getting them to know
23:05not to make those same mistakes.
23:07But navigating through a corporate setup
23:10or knowing what they themselves wanna do,
23:13often mentees, once you get to know them,
23:17what they think they wanna be
23:19or where they think they wanna go
23:21is not always the same once they finish the program.
23:23So just getting them to know what they like,
23:26what they have passion for.
23:29It's without passion, there's no way
23:31they're gonna get to where they need to go.
23:34So women on the board, I think the voice,
23:39different perspectives, they bring different perspectives
23:41as everybody thought.
23:42Empathy is one thing.
23:44But I also think patience comes along with the role
23:47that they play as a mother.
23:49If you have kids and if you're more than three kids
23:51or if you have boys, I mean,
23:53patience is one thing you really would need.
23:56So patience comes as a given once you're at that level.
24:00I also think multitasking and not in a bad way,
24:04but multitasking in a way that our mind,
24:07scientifically and medically as well,
24:09thinks a little differently.
24:10We can think in five different directions pretty well.
24:14I won't say there are no weaknesses in a woman's brain.
24:17I mean, we're not great at directions.
24:20At directions, I mean GPS kind of thing,
24:21but we can think along five verticals at the same time,
24:27which is different for a male mind to do.
24:32But I think a lot of that, plus I think we always learn
24:35how to take our families with us
24:37because we're dealing with our parents, in-laws.
24:39Similarly, the team or a boardroom,
24:43how do we scan the boardroom, communicate effectively,
24:47make sure they're all on the same page,
24:50make sure we know what they need to hear
24:53and what they want to see.
24:56Also building relationships outside the boardroom, right?
24:58So I think that's where women are also pretty amazing.
25:03But essentially when all these traits come together,
25:06you have a much better blend
25:08of not just interpersonal skills,
25:10but strategic thinking, corporate governance.
25:14So that blend actually plays pretty well in a boardroom
25:17when they want to give a diverse perspective
25:19along the strategic direction of the company.
25:23That's where I think their edge is.
25:25However, did companies run before there was this balance?
25:28I have no idea, but they run better now.
25:35Definitely.
25:36Do you think they ran it in the background with the men?
25:39No.
25:41They took all the credit.
25:44No, but honestly, this is not like a men battering session,
25:48but they have been with us.
25:50They're the reason, I mean, all of us are daughters, right?
25:54All of us are wives.
25:54There's a reason why we are here.
25:56Somebody had to literally pick up the weight
25:59of all the things that we're not able to do.
26:02You know, Katie, I think mentioned something
26:03about picking up from school.
26:05Yes, that's in the forefront
26:07and that's also something that we feel like we must do,
26:10but have they not done it, right?
26:12Have they not cooked a meal?
26:13Have they not taken care of our sick children?
26:16They've done it all, right?
26:17They've all done it.
26:18So I think we don't give enough credit to everyone.
26:21My husband's here in the audience.
26:23Give him all the credit
26:24and the reason why I could do what I could do.
26:27Yeah, I mean, that was a point of Katie's before
26:29that resonated with me, that inclusivity benefits everyone.
26:34Mona, I'm really interested to know how do you,
26:39this is something that all of us
26:40could be interested in as well.
26:43What advice do you have for women
26:45or any of us who battle imposter syndrome?
26:50Imposter syndrome,
26:52who have hesitation in asserting our ideas?
26:57I think be assertive.
27:00I don't have any personal advice.
27:01I can only tell you,
27:02I've seen amazing women in my career.
27:06There should not be any setbacks.
27:11There is only success ahead of them.
27:13They should not be thinking this is it.
27:17They should always keep going.
27:21I don't have any specific advice.
27:27Everyone, I think that's our time up for today, I'm afraid.
27:30I'd like to thank all of you for being here
27:32at the Future Women Leaders Forum 2024,
27:34powered by Gulf News and Being She,
27:36and a huge thanks to all our panellists today
27:39for sharing their time and expertise
27:41on navigating the boardroom.
27:42Dr. Jean Chatterpoury,
27:44Mona Alhurair, and Shamsa Al-Falassi.
27:47Thank you, thank you.