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00:00Hi, this is Manjusha Radhakrishnan from Gulf News. I'm the entertainment editor and today
00:23I have the makers and talent behind Citadel, Honey Bunny. It's a spy series and of course
00:30has lots of style, stun sequences and it's like Mr. and Mrs. Smith meets I suppose James
00:37Bond. I would say James Bond. Would you agree with that? And I saw the first episode and
00:41I thought both Varun and Samantha were brilliant in it. I can't wait to see the remaining five
00:46episodes but is this a part of your bucket list? To be a part of such a spectacle, you
00:52know where you have to suspend belief. Actually, we didn't have to suspend belief. Oh really?
01:01Because it's Raj D. K. Yeah. Because I think the first instruction was that don't suspend
01:07belief. All this has to look very believable. So, that was the first director's cue that
01:13I almost got that oh the way you're doing it is not seeming believable. So, make it
01:18I remember there was this thing we were shooting in this run down kind of under construction
01:25building and I had a gun and I had to go and keep checking rooms and it was like almost
01:3016 rooms that they made me check and they kept retaking it. So, I said what happened?
01:36I said there will be another cut. So, D. K. comes and says nahi, it's not believable.
01:40It looks like anyone can come and shoot you at any time. True that. So, I said what do
01:45you want me to do? He said no, really check the rooms. Forget the cameras there, really
01:49check the rooms. I was like boss. Did you just intellectualise a spy genre? Super Spies?
01:56Come on, this is one genre where I think you can get away with murder, you can get away
02:00with like say you know taking over the world, saving the day, geopolitics, South Watered.
02:06Why intellectualise an established genre? It's more about giving it the right due, whatever
02:11genre we do. Even if I do a slapstick comedy, I want to give it the right due so that there
02:16is enough details spent or enough focus spent on it because action films may be very, very
02:21useless, right? Everybody has a say on it, they've seen enough. So, you can see a trope
02:26coming, you can see a bad punch coming. Everybody can spot it. So, when you're doing it, let's
02:32do it right. How about you D. K.? Would you like to add to that and Seetha as well?
02:37Did you just intellectualise a spy genre which is known to like, you can get away with murder,
02:42that's the whole point of this, right? No, fair enough. But I mean there are very
02:45intelligent spy films as well and see this is actually the show, if I may say this now
02:51at this point, when it's ready for release, even though it's set in the spy genre, it
02:55is really a human drama. It is about the characters, Honey, Bunny and the child. It's really about
03:01their love story, their relationship, this family unit. Yes, the backdrop is this guy,
03:06the spy genre. So, it only helps the characters, it only helps the drama when everything feels
03:13that much more real. Okay. And Seetha, what about you? Did you take
03:16the help of AI? I feel AI is taking over our world.
03:19AI? No.
03:20Yeah, chat GPT. That's what Hollywood is grappling with.
03:24She didn't write the script. She just went on chat GPT and said write a script.
03:29No, I'm kidding. But was it tough? I mean we are competing with AI right now, right?
03:34For writing. So, how do you make sure that it is authentic? How would you say?
03:38I write it myself. Every line. Every action line. Every dialogue.
03:42Every dialogue. Very simple answer. She doesn't know how
03:45to use chat GPT. No, right? She does. What she does is, in a
03:49break, writing break, she'll ask chat GPT one existential question.
03:53Oh yeah, she does that. And confuse the chat GPT. I like it. Try to
03:57humanise it. It has something about, she made chat GPT for two days.
04:05What was that existential question? I was asking some deep questions to chat GPT.
04:10Profound questions. Confuse the chat GPT. I love that. Samantha, you are really, I saw
04:15just the first episode. I feel there's more action coming. Yesterday, you took one for
04:19the action, you know, for the women's team. Where you said, Varun Dhawan, of course. It's
04:24a spy genre where male guys get the best kicks, right? But you also, I think, you got your
04:30due here. How does that feel? Like, were you very particular? Did you tell the makers that
04:34if I'm in the series, it has to count? I mean, it's Sita writing. I didn't have to.
04:43I think that's why we need more female writers as well. To do it for us. So, I didn't have
04:52to say anything. In fact, I just was pressurised to do justice to the incredible character
04:57that she has written. Because I know that there's a lot of Sita in Honey. Especially
05:04the shooting and the killing people part.
05:07Here comes the latent page.
05:11No, but yeah, there's a lot of her. And I know that because I know her personally very
05:15well as well. So, there was pressure to do justice to this role.
05:18Excellent. And was it cathartic to actually kill people? And I ask this, forget gun violence
05:23and all of that. That's a very serious debate. But just to play spies who can save the world,
05:28nobody, you're not answerable to anybody. It's not state-sanctioned. Isn't it the most
05:32fun to play super spies?
05:34It is. I think your first question that it is definitely on every actor's bucket list
05:39to play a spy. I remember having this conversation with Seth Ali Khan and he told me this after
05:44Agent Vinod. He's like, no, what do I know? But it's been my boyhood dream to play a spy
05:49always. But what do I know? You know, and in like trademark Seth style. And I was like,
05:56yeah, man. I was like, you know, I've also always wanted, this was like back in the day.
06:00So, every actor would want to play a spy at some point. I'm glad that I'm in 2024, 2023
06:08and I'm getting to play a spy in a Raj D.K. series. Because that is the kind of spy that
06:14I had always imagined myself playing. A little bit more in a real situation.
06:19Right, right. There are these tropes, right? Russians are the enemies, etc. in the West.
06:24We have Pakistan, of course. Did you try to deviate from the tropes?
06:29Of course. First, we recognised the tropes. It's not just the bad guys in what you said,
06:36but also how a situation is handled, how a honey trap is laid or how do you do a heist
06:42or how do you do a counter attack, what a chase means, what is a reverse chase,
06:46pretty much all the tropes. And sometimes you play with them because it's fun. You know the
06:52trope and you play with it. And sometimes when it matters, when it actually counts,
06:57you don't rely on the trope. Hence, it becomes, the situation becomes fresh, is how we feel.
07:04So, you know, yeah, being aware of tropes is a must to write a good story.
07:10You know what I found like very intelligent and very relevant in what they wrote, though it's
07:15based in the 90s, is that we are in an era where sometimes the good guy is actually the bad guy
07:22and the bad guy is actually the good guy. For sure.
07:24Because, you know, fake news and perception creation and all these things have started
07:31coming in which are easy. You can easily manipulate pieces to make it feel like that.
07:35Yes.
07:35And they played that very well in this series. You know, they played on that angle. There's a
07:41thought in this but they played on this angle that what looks good and shiny and nice from the
07:46outside could actually be the most dangerous thing. And what looks dangerous could be actually
07:51trying to save you. So, they played on that psychological thought very well.
07:56And I always wondered when they wrote this that was that inspired by some event that
08:02happened in the world or was that just an observation?
08:05It's just a greyness. Most of our protagonists, if you see across, they're all very grey.
08:09Correct.
08:10Like, if you take the family man, Shrikant Diwadi, he's possibly the worst husband,
08:15worst dad, worst friend.
08:17Not worst dad.
08:18He's not a bad dad.
08:19He doesn't even know their classes.
08:21Listen, I don't know my kids' classes.
08:25I don't actually boys. They ask me.
08:27Okay, he's not the greatest dad, he's not the greatest husband.
08:32You're asking a storyteller. So, I was telling a story that changes.
08:37So, I'm saying bad is a superficial thing is what you immediately term him as.
08:42Bad guy, bad dad, bad father, bad husband.
08:45But there's so much goodness and integrity and other values that shine in, balance out.
08:50So, the grey character with depth in focus on something, you know, passion about something
08:58suddenly makes the character elevate.
09:00So, all these guys, Honey, Bunny, Shrikant Diwadi, Sunny from Farzi, everybody are flawed.
09:05Even Baba for that matter.
09:07Yeah, everybody's flawed and they believe passionately on a philosophy
09:13that could be sometimes wrong.
09:15Fair enough.
09:17Please go for it.
09:17I think to go back to your question, we love writing what's reflecting today.
09:25No matter what period the story is in, we love it to have parallels to the current situation.
09:31So, there will always be references to the times we live in.
09:35There's context. Basically, there has to be context.
09:38It's also about the chemistry between spies that I think for me Mr and Mrs Smith work
09:43because of their sexual chemistry.
09:44100%.
09:45You two, I know, are very platonic, great friends.
09:49How do you ensure that you know that sparring works?
09:51That I think is what makes a spy series work, right?
09:54I don't know, you need to educate me.
09:56Like, did you guys have workshops where you like, okay, let's be, you know, let's amp this up a bit.
10:02I mean, you see it for sure, right?
10:03I mean, I don't know because we didn't do that much.
10:06We didn't do much.
10:07I think it was all in the writing.
10:09It's definitely in the writing.
10:10I think there was a
10:11You wanted to say something, see that.
10:12They're great actors.
10:13They walk in on the set and they turn on the child.
10:15Of course, they're amazing.
10:16They have a great body of work.
10:17No, I feel, see we are not the best of friends or anything like that.
10:21It's not like that.
10:22But I think there was just an instant chemistry that, okay, this is your life.
10:29Okay, Varun, this is your life.
10:31We get it.
10:32I think we think about work in a very similar way.
10:36We approach work in a very
10:37Yeah, I agree with Varun that we approach work and a scene, how to play a scene like without
10:45any of the frills, just about how to make this look authentic and nothing else.
10:53I think that when we, that's why I instantly
10:56gelled or like instantly I found comfort in working with Varun because all he was thinking
11:02about was how to make this scene amazing, how to keep it authentic.
11:07I remember there's this particular scene where it was just one scene where that was light
11:12between us and it was, I was actually laughing because he was so hilarious and he was so real
11:19and he was, he was so comfortable with making like a little bit of a fool of himself and I
11:25was like in splits.
11:27I was genuinely so, so, so taken by his performance.
11:32So, I think that most of it was very seamlessly.
11:35You know which person?
11:36Yeah, I remember.
11:37I was just dying.
11:38I think the one quality I want to point out in Sam which I have,
11:41she doesn't have any insecurity in the scene.
11:44She has zero insecurity that if another actor is scoring more
11:47but she'll be like that's fine as long as the scene is great.
11:49Okay, same thing.
11:50I think the same way, let the scene be, let the scene shine.
11:54Yeah.
11:54So, I think we really connected on it.
11:58Also, the first scene, the first day when we shot the scene by the balcony or by the
12:03window we are doing and she really tears into me and she's expressing why she wants to
12:08get into this business.
12:09Yes.
12:10And the first take she did was a very commercial take.
12:13Like a super commercial take which I loved.
12:16I was like, yeah, what is this?
12:19I was like a front bencher and then yeah and then they were like no, no just turn it down.
12:23Make it real.
12:24But I enjoyed it.
12:25Such a wet blanket you guys.
12:28This would fly.
12:29So, I'm watching her like this but suddenly I start smiling because I'm enjoying myself
12:36and they both are like this is not what we are doing.
12:38It's not it.
12:39That's really not it.
12:39But I enjoyed it that that was my instinct.
12:41Yeah, but these guys asked like let's amp it down a bit.
12:44We are not doing.
12:45How involved were the Russo brothers in the editing and the casting of the show?
12:50Casting was up to us.
12:51Okay.
12:52Casting, of course, we ran it by them but I think the whole thing was on us.
12:59Like pretty much do what you have to do.
13:01So, you had creative control over the Indian version?
13:04Yeah, completely.
13:05Like writing, directing, producing, editing.
13:09It's the edits we would send that we like.
13:11So, it's yeah.
13:14Yeah, same thing.
13:15I mean they were involved to the extent of giving us feedback in their point of view.
13:19But I would say most of the time they were all suggestions in the sense rather than
13:26any kind of interface.
13:27More like suggestion.
13:28They were like could we do it this way?
13:31Because see they also look at it from an international perspective.
13:33Like once we think we have a great edit and we share it.
13:37They look and say you know this might be like if they had trouble understanding it,
13:41this might be you know troublesome for other people to understand.
13:44So, can we make it clearer or something?
13:47Once in a while the feedback would come like that.
13:49We'll be like sure I mean yeah we'll make it more accessible.
13:52Fair enough.
13:53Citadel is a fan favorite.
13:54People love the show.
13:55But if you look at the Rotten Tomatoes score for instance, it's not very flattering.
13:59It says style over substance etc and it's mixed.
14:02Which I think for any work of art will be mixed, right?
14:05It'll be polarizing.
14:07Do you think you don't care for the reviews anymore guys?
14:09Like this one you guys did it for the you know just spectacle of it all.
14:13Like somewhere it's made on a great budget.
14:16You know you have the money, you have the backing.
14:18But do you really care whether the reviews are favorable to you all?
14:21I don't know if it's a huge budget and stuff.
14:28It is a good budget for us.
14:30For us to make what we want.
14:32We're always making a film or a show as good as we can.
14:39Now if that means wanting good reviews, yes.
14:41If that means the movie standing the test of time, yes.
14:46I'm not making a film or a show for numbers alone.
14:50We've never done it.
14:51We've never thought if this is how I make a film it's going to open big.
14:54If you make it really well it'll open big.
14:57So our idea has always been as writers, directors to focus on my desk, my laptop,
15:04our script and how well can we do this and how well can we shoot it.
15:09I don't think it's like let's make a spectacle and throw caution to the wind at all ever.
15:15It's not.
15:16Never so reckless.
15:17I mean you guys are never that reckless.
15:19To dig deeper, I mean it's not about any critics reviews or any particular critic or anything.
15:24It's just about it could be critics reviews.
15:26It could be now there are so many people on YouTube and social media who actually speak
15:31their mind and so it's about how much love the show gets.
15:34So it's about are people loving the show?
15:36Are we hearing good stuff about it?
15:38Are they not right?
15:40That's important.
15:41At this point on OTT at least what we are putting out,
15:44the real payoff for us is not the box office collections.
15:48It is the love that people give.
15:49So it is very important.
15:50And the views, right?
15:51I mean the parameters have changed for web series.
15:54Sure views will matter but that's a function of the marketing and the platform and how
15:58far they push it and all.
15:58But for us if everybody watches and nobody says it's good, we'll be heartbroken.
16:04You too.
16:04I mean especially Varun I have to say he takes every review sportingly.
16:09Some movies I did not like of his and some ones I did.
16:13And we've had good discussions on them.
16:15Like he takes it, you know very few actors do.
16:18And I have to admit that you are the, I'm not scared of reviewing his films.
16:22I don't get a hater.
16:23I think it's, see every actor does want an honest point of view at the end of the day.
16:28You want an honest point of view but then sometimes what happens you're like this is
16:33kind of influenced by this or this is influenced by this and this, you know I didn't give this
16:37channel an interview or I didn't meet this person nicely.
16:39You start thinking like that, all that happens.
16:41And that does happen sometimes.
16:43But there are few and I want to pay back the compliment to you that I know for a fact that
16:49we share a good relationship but you've always been very like honest about what you felt.
16:54And I'm happy we have that kind of a relationship because I get an honest feedback there.
16:58Okay, fair enough.
16:59Last question, how do I take somebody called Honey and Bunny seriously guys?
17:05What is that?
17:05You guys need to, I mean shouldn't name have gravitas?
17:09This is so funny like so I was telling some of my peers who are from the west,
17:12they're like Honey and Bunny, they are the spies.
17:15I found that hilarious and I'm like it's from makers and writers
17:18who are really quirky, they don't, they're not traditional.
17:22So, I'm like just wait for it, watch it.
17:23Like let's not reduce them to just names.
17:26Did you also ask them the question like why Honey and Bunny?
17:29Very Punjabi nicknames.
17:32I thought you answered the question yourself.
17:35It's made by writers and directors who are quirky.
17:39It's made by them.
17:42Yeah, we needed a title that was unexpected because you know the whole idea is see that
17:48going back to reviews and how people take movies,
17:52action films are the least reviewed or the worst reviewed in history in general because
17:58action, the focus is to create some action,
18:01spectacle and what can I do stunts with.
18:03So, in that process, story takes backseat automatically because the focus is on how
18:08do I get to that action set piece.
18:10So, action movies are already a handicap when they come out.
18:14So, our idea is that why treat this like an action film?
18:18We'll treat it like a human drama first and then see where the characters lend themselves
18:22and you know find themselves in the action set pieces.
18:26So, having said this, a good review always gives you an insight on what you did.
18:33Of course, it doesn't help once it's released.
18:36But later on when you look at it and read it and actually see the points in which they're
18:40making, yes that's the only, those are the what you call top of the line feedback from
18:47users or people that this is what I've been doing, this is how they see it, this is how
18:52I correct, this is how I can do.
18:53I get it totally.
18:56So, yeah I mean Honey Bunny is like I'm not, if they start thinking like you know shit
19:01what are they gonna say, it can never be not scared and Honey Bunny for us is an endearment.
19:09We went for an endearment like a darling, Honey Bunny.
19:12So, if the whole movie is about the darling, like everyone is darling to each other, the
19:18kid, the parents, so the love story and the mother-father, everybody is a Honey Bunny
19:24sweetheart and then we also needed names for them.
19:27We are not Punjabi, so I did not think of Honey Bunny like that.
19:30In fact, Honey is a name, Bunny the reason we did that was that a stunt man in Bollywood,
19:38they all have nicknames, so he'd rather, his real name is Raheel Gambhir in the film
19:43but I wanted him to be, hey Bunny come over, so just in the series, so it's a more relatable
19:48nickname.
19:50Honey has a deeper meaning in the sense that women have always been used as honey traps.
19:55And in the beginning you are.
19:56Yes, exactly, so that's the trope, that's the trope I said you take a woman and you
20:00put him as a honey but she proves to be more than that, so it's a satirical call to the
20:06fact that women have been honeys in the spy genre.
20:09So, we take it, own it and then show a warrior from it.
20:14You guys make bruised and battered look so good, both of you.
20:18I've seen very little of you, I'm sure it was painful, right?
20:21Both of you, are you still like bruised?
20:22You guys look very cleaned up.
20:24No, now we are good, lot of ice baths later.
20:27How many ice baths later?
20:29Many, many.
20:30But you are such committed artists and I really hope the series takes some serious
20:35We didn't even have to use any stunt doubles for anything.
20:38That's a tall ask, is that correct?
20:40I thought it was misquoted.
20:42No, no, pretty much they did all the action themselves.
20:45Well done you both, that's brilliant and I really hope you get all the views.
20:49Thank you so much.
20:50Thank you, thank you so much.