In this Gulf News webinar, panelists from Mashreq Bank, Visa and Noon debate how the pandemic has propelled the shift towards electronic transactions like no single event in history.
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See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
#economy #banking #cashless
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the Gulf News webinar, Accelerating Cashless in
00:00:05Association with Mashreq. Thank you for your time this morning. I'm your moderator. My name
00:00:10is Noni Edwards. I've been with Gulf News for six years, and I've been a resident in Dubai for 12
00:00:14years. We have an expert panel here with us this morning to share their insights and discuss the
00:00:20transition to a cashless society. So let me introduce our esteemed speakers. We have Mr.
00:00:26Kartik Taneja, Head of Payments at Mashreq Bank. Live long and prosper. We have Mr. Mossam Ghadia,
00:00:34Senior Vice President of Finance and Digital Payments at Noon. Good morning. And we have
00:00:40Shahbaz Khan, UAE General Manager of Visa. We're looking very forward to hearing their views.
00:00:46The cashless society is not a new concept. At first glance, the UAE may look to be a long
00:00:52way off with a large majority of all transactions still being made using cash. However, the pandemic
00:00:59has propelled a shift towards a cashless society in ways that no other single event has. The new
00:01:05dynamics are creating a golden moment for card companies, banks, and digital platforms to advance
00:01:10the cashless revolution by encouraging consumers and retailers to use digital payments. One of the
00:01:18biggest shifts in the UAE was in the e-commerce space. Cash on delivery customers moving towards
00:01:24online payments. What dynamics are at play here in a post-COVID world? What is the future of
00:01:30cashless payments? Let's start by asking our panelists. Mr. Kartik, is cash still king in the region?
00:01:40I think cash is certainly important and I think it will remain important for some more time.
00:01:48In my view, I'm not certain at this point whether cash will really die. I think
00:01:55there are use cases for that where you would always find need for some cash to
00:02:02remain within the society because there are always segments that would not be part
00:02:08of the digital revolution and they would not have access to those kind of tools and I think till we
00:02:14reach that stage, cash is certainly going to remain in the society. But over time, of course, the
00:02:20importance of cash is coming down. In fact, today I would say probably give or take
00:02:26half of the transactions are happening in cash and I think that number is going to go down. Yes, you're
00:02:32right, the pandemic has given a flip to e-commerce in particular but also
00:02:39payment methods like contactless as well. But I would say that there is a little
00:02:46bit of a denominator effect which is happening. So if you had a hundred dollars or a hundred
00:02:52dirham of transactions which were happening pre-COVID and out of that 20 were on e-commerce, let's say
00:02:59roughly. So what's happened is that during the pandemic, what we've seen is that the
00:03:0680 which were happening face-to-face or on point-of-sale costs essentially crashed to 15
00:03:15or 20 and the e-commerce bid went up to 30 and that's what's really
00:03:22happened. So a lot of people who are making headlines just based on the percentages
00:03:28are kind of missing the point that this wasn't just one thing.
00:03:36But it's also the fact that everything around us is going back.
00:03:56Thank you very much. Your views from Visa's perspective?
00:04:01I was on mute. Webinar Error 101. Anyway, here we go. So look, I think not so much. I don't
00:04:10think cash is king. It hasn't been in the UAE for a while now. Even before the pandemic, the UAE
00:04:16was making a rapid progress to become cashless. I mean, we've got a young population,
00:04:21there's a huge adoption of smartphone penetration. So we've been typically early adopters for all
00:04:28new forms of payments. And also on top of it all, I think the government policies and initiatives
00:04:33have been really supportive of going cashless. So all of this was already propelling UAE towards
00:04:41being cashless. But the pandemic obviously has accelerated that shift. We did a study
00:04:47recently to track the impact of COVID in the UAE and more broadly in the region.
00:04:53And what we found is that our COVID impact tracker found that 80% of the consumers in the UAE
00:04:58have actually changed their shopping behavior. They have also changed their payment behavior.
00:05:04And the encouraging news for us is that a lot of them actually intend to stick to those habits
00:05:12post-COVID as well. So you will see that nearly two-thirds of the people that we researched in
00:05:20the UAE and Saudi have said that they've started shopping online for the first time. Obviously,
00:05:26when you shop online, you're more conducive to pay with card and go cashless.
00:05:31Karthik talked about contactless. I think this is, again, a movement that's been happening in
00:05:34the region for a while. We see in the UAE more than 50% of transactions that happen face-to-face
00:05:43are actually on contactless. And that number keeps going up constantly.
00:05:50So I don't think cash is king, gladly for us. And I think that the pandemic has really
00:05:58accelerated the move towards cashless. There are pockets of stubborn cash that remain,
00:06:05as Karthik alluded to, and I think there are ways we can go after it,
00:06:11which we can talk about as we progress. Yeah.
00:06:14Thank you for that. You mentioned that the move to online shopping is obviously prompting
00:06:21cashless transactions. Mr. Mossam, can you give us your perspective? Is cash still king for Noon?
00:06:29Actually, you know, what has happened is over a period of time, especially before pandemic,
00:06:36before pandemic, we used to, anyways, promote a lot of contactless way of payment
00:06:43at the time of delivery and also online. But because of pandemic, the whole journey has
00:06:48accelerated a lot. We have also seen data that a lot of customers are actually preferring to
00:06:54go contactless. In fact, one of the studies we were also reading says that
00:06:59the contactless payments year over year have actually grown by more than 100%.
00:07:03And a lot of customers are actually now preferring to pay. They are getting,
00:07:08pay online and they are getting a lot more comfortable around trusting the platforms.
00:07:13And I think in the beginning, cash on delivery became a method that customers are not trusting
00:07:20the platform. They may not know who the platform is and the trust, but with time and multiple
00:07:26sort of transactions and now that the loyalty is getting developed, we feel people are a lot
00:07:32more confident. In fact, our card on file, which is the amount of cards that people are actually
00:07:37saving on the platform are growing through the roof month over month. And that is really a sign
00:07:43of people trusting the platform. And we believe that for us, you know, cash was just a method
00:07:48to build trust, but we really don't want to rely on cash as a predominant method.
00:07:53And we have seen a steady increase in adoption of prepaid methods. And in partnership with
00:07:59multiple players, we are even further innovating on how we can provide plethora of contactless
00:08:04and cashless options to the customers for shopping online. And even if they wish to
00:08:10pay on delivery, because they want to see the product and make sure that they get the delivery.
00:08:14So absolutely, like I concur with what Shabaz said, we are not really seeing cash being
00:08:22the king for us anymore. And we are actively pursuing strategies and technology investment
00:08:28as known to make sure that we move away from reliance on cash as much as possible. Also,
00:08:33you know, what happens in our kind of operations is there's a lot of risk that cash brings to our
00:08:38operations. Our people's lives are at risk because they are carrying hundreds of thousands of
00:08:43trillions of cash. And we actually discourage the behavior from the customer experience
00:08:49perspective as well, and try to shift them online. And I think COVID has actually accelerated
00:08:54their journey for us by a lot of percentage points. And we see that the baseline shift has
00:08:59happened. So we do not see the cash on delivery customers, a lot of them will go back to cash
00:09:05anymore, because the trust is there. And as I said, there are a lot of cards are getting saved
00:09:11online or platform. And we believe that should continue to, you know, help customers buy more
00:09:17and more online. Yeah, I agree. That's really interesting that you make the point about
00:09:24safety, because I mean, we're all seeing that cash is less safe for us now in COVID times.
00:09:30But you're saying that for your delivery drivers who were carrying cash, it's always been a
00:09:35safety risk. I'll just stop there for one moment. Before we continue, I'd like to raise a couple of
00:09:40housekeeping points for our spectators. If you'd like to ask a question during the webinar,
00:09:45please use the questions box down the bottom of your screen there. We also have a chat box
00:09:53there at the bottom of the screen. If you'd like to make any comments, you can make the comments
00:09:56there. But if you have a question that you'd like to ask our panelists, please put it in that
00:10:00questions section there. And also, we have a poll running. We'll have several polls running
00:10:06throughout this session. We have one running that's our first one. In a society that relies
00:10:12heavily on cash payments, will cashless be widely accepted? We have 87% of people saying yes,
00:10:21and 13% of people saying no. So we'll check back in on that poll and the others in just a moment.
00:10:27All right, let's continue on with our questions now for our panelists. Let me start this time with
00:10:34Mr. Shahbaz. At first glance, the UAE looked to be a long way off with up to 75% or maybe 55% or 60%
00:10:41of all transactions still being made using cash prior to the pandemic.
00:10:45What are the shifting consumer behaviours that you're seeing as a result of COVID-19?
00:10:54So I think only we're seeing two very distinct shifts in behaviours, right? So I think the
00:10:58pandemic obviously has impacted us all in a big way. Lots of habits are going to change. And I
00:11:05think the two that are most important to us at Visa are we're seeing a huge shift in the way
00:11:11consumers shop. So not only just what they're buying, but how they're buying, and also how
00:11:17they're paying for their purchases, right? So in my opening remarks, I talked about a couple of
00:11:23statistics. So people are becoming more and more aware of touching things. And I never thought that
00:11:31in my time at Visa, I would ever have a tagline to say that cash is not safe, apart from the rider
00:11:37safety that Mosam talked about. But cash is not hygienic. I mean, I never thought that would be a
00:11:42tagline that we would ever see in a newspaper. But so I think people are getting very conscious
00:11:49about making touchless, having touchless experiences, right? So I know platforms like
00:11:55Noon and food deliveries have adapted to it. You can almost, whenever you do online shopping,
00:12:01you can have a complete touchless experience. If you've paid by card, you can instruct the
00:12:05driver to leave your goods at door. So that's becoming really important. So the two key elements,
00:12:12the two key change of behaviour we're seeing is obviously at point of sale, when you're face to
00:12:17face at a retailer, consumers are choosing to make touchless payments, contactless payments.
00:12:23This was on even before the pandemic. But now I think we see, for example, in the UAE, more than
00:12:2850% of those payments are contactless. In Saudi, more than 80% of those payments are contactless.
00:12:32So we're really going, you know, at least in a face to face environment towards cashless in a
00:12:38big way. And there's a huge shift I think we've seen in e-commerce, right? So, you know, nearly
00:12:4890% of consumers, of merchants were online before the pandemic, but the remaining 10% have now,
00:12:54you know, set up their footprints online. And I think that's been a big differentiator
00:12:58for a lot of retailers. And I think that's another behaviour shift that we've seen.
00:13:02People are choosing to go online, shopping online. There is a build of trust, as Mohsam
00:13:06talked about, you know, after you've transacted once, you tend to come back. So I think those
00:13:12are the two key behaviours that we're seeing a huge shift towards as a result of the pandemic.
00:13:20Yeah, it's interesting. You made an early point there about cash being not hygienic. We've been
00:13:25seeing people going to extraordinary lengths trying to sanitise their cash, putting it in
00:13:29the microwave. I mean, that's dangerous. Try that with an Australian dollar.
00:13:40Well, we all know that Australians are very far advanced with cashless payments, don't we?
00:13:45Okay, let's carry on. All right, Mr. Kartik, can you tell us from Masharek's point of view,
00:13:51do you think consumer behavioural changes due to the pandemic, such as shifting online and
00:13:56increasing digital payments, are they likely to continue post-COVID-19?
00:14:00Have they lost trust for cash? Have they gained trust for cashless?
00:14:08Oh, we don't have Mr. Kartik there. I'll ask Mr. Mohsam that same question then.
00:14:13Do you think that the habits that people have developed now... Kartik, I'm just going to ask
00:14:18Mr. Mohsam that question now. We just lost you. What do you think, Mohsam?
00:14:23Yeah, see, I actually believe that the shift is actually going to remain, and it's equally
00:14:31important for a platform like us to keep innovating for the customer needs, right?
00:14:34So, we have been, during the pandemic, one of the most active times of our history known,
00:14:40that we actually have launched more than two or three new platforms, and all of them went
00:14:45live during the pandemic to meet the new customer needs. You know, ability to buy
00:14:50grocery online in a very seamless way, getting the stuff delivered next day. I think those things
00:14:56were the real consumer needs, and the team at Noom worked hard to get it delivered and
00:15:02make sure that we are there for the customer needs. And I believe that with such kind of
00:15:06innovation coming on ground almost in a jiffy has actually helped consumers to try to shift
00:15:15their purchasing behavior more and more online. So, I think that trend is going to continue.
00:15:20We will see a lot more people adapting to buy online and continuously try newer ways
00:15:32to engage with various kinds of products and services.
00:15:35I think one thing that we must also understand is, it's not only that consumers were buying
00:15:41products online, e-commerce. I think e-commerce services, sorry, the services that consumers are
00:15:46buying or were buying pre-pandemic are also going through a transformational change as we speak.
00:15:52And we believe that by innovating on helping consumers consume stuff in a completely digital
00:15:59way is also going to be a big game changer as we go ahead. You know, ability to buy with a click.
00:16:05You know, you want to buy a subscription, you want to buy a ticket, you want to buy a movie ticket.
00:16:09I think those things will continue to see a dramatic shift and I would assume a huge proportion
00:16:16of those transactions will continue to go online. But yes, to make sure that the consumer behavior
00:16:22stays the way we want it to be, which is less cash and of course with almost zero contact.
00:16:29I think it's a responsibility and duty of us as an e-commerce player to keep innovating in that
00:16:36space and we have been doing a lot of it over the last three to four months and you will see a lot
00:16:40more coming out in the near future.
00:16:43Yeah, I have to say, I have to give thanks from a consumer point of view here because the speed,
00:16:49the inner jiffy, the momentary nature of you being able to pivot with online platforms and provide us
00:16:57with things that were no longer just for convenience but for necessity. We weren't able to
00:17:01get out and buy our necessary goods and, you know, for your platform and others to be able to deliver
00:17:07these to us, you know, on the turn of a pin was, I mean, you know, life-saving for many people.
00:17:13So thank you very much.
00:17:15All right, we have our second poll up here.
00:17:17Has the pandemic resulted in you spending more on e-commerce platforms and using
00:17:22digital payments? 94% of respondents say yes.
00:17:27Only 6% of people have not been spending more on e-commerce and using digital payments.
00:17:33There we go.
00:17:34All right, so let's continue on to our questions.
00:17:37Let's ask this one to Mr. Kartik now from Mushrek.
00:17:40How has the coronavirus pandemic reshaped e-commerce in the UAE and wider region?
00:17:47Okay, so I can, I think, easily talk about the UAE.
00:17:53As I said in my sort of opening remarks, I think what has happened is that the e-commerce sector as a whole
00:18:00has really gone up because there was really no other way to do it.
00:18:04Obviously, we also saw increases in, you know, kind of daily necessities, some kind of, you know,
00:18:09a little bit of hoarding also was seen sometime in March, April.
00:18:13So, in fact, groceries as a category for us went up almost 500% year on year.
00:18:22But e-commerce, we are the leader in that space.
00:18:26And so we have a high base that we started off from.
00:18:29So while year on year, it's gone up like 100%.
00:18:33I think for us, that increase was already off a pretty high base.
00:18:37And what I see is like there are three stages.
00:18:40I think people have alluded to it.
00:18:41Like in marketing, you learned about the three P's, right?
00:18:46Product placement and something else with a P and price actually.
00:18:51And now it's about the three T's, right?
00:18:53So it's technology, it's trial, and then it's trust, right?
00:18:56So the tech has been there.
00:18:58The trial is the area which has really exploded during this time where a lot of people didn't have a choice
00:19:04but to try out e-commerce.
00:19:06And we've seen users who weren't using e-commerce before.
00:19:09Clearly, I think that trend is visible to us here.
00:19:14I think trust is a little bit longer term.
00:19:17Although I have no doubt, I have zero doubt that this is a trend that is not coming down.
00:19:22It's only going to go up from here.
00:19:24But I think trust over time is going to be a function of the kind of experience people have with these platforms
00:19:31and in these payment methods of how good are we able to make the customer experience.
00:19:36And that depends on the user experience of our applications.
00:19:41For example, we pay a lot of attention to how our online banking and mobile banking looks like
00:19:47and how easy can we make it for customers to make a payment.
00:19:51And if you'll allow me, I'll give you one example, right?
00:19:54And this is the things that Visa is doing along with us,
00:20:00which is having a new level of security which has been launched into this market,
00:20:04which is called 3D Secure Version 2.
00:20:07And with this, the kind of security which is happening at the backend,
00:20:14the kind of data that we are getting about a transaction that is coming to us to approve or not,
00:20:20there are now more than 200 fields that will come to us.
00:20:23And that allows us to be more confident and therefore approve a lot more transactions
00:20:28than what we were doing in the past.
00:20:30And that's a customer experience which is far superior.
00:20:34We think that we will be able to maybe approve if our calculation is right,
00:20:40more than a million more transactions than we were doing in the past.
00:20:45So I think that's the kind of tech that is enabling the customer experience
00:20:50that the user experience is also leading to.
00:20:54Thanks very much for that, Kartik Taneja.
00:20:57Okay, here's another one for Visa, for Shahbaz.
00:21:01Okay, we talk about the technology.
00:21:03We talk about the infrastructure.
00:21:04Shifting businesses online requires significant investment
00:21:08from brick and mortar retailers facing a cash crunch.
00:21:12What can banks, payment providers, and e-commerce firms
00:21:16do to support their digital transformation?
00:21:26Sorry, Shahbaz, you're on mute.
00:21:30Better now?
00:21:32Yes.
00:21:33Okay, so look, I think businesses, all kinds of businesses
00:21:37have seen a really tough time during the pandemic, right?
00:21:39And there has been this increased push, urgency towards digital.
00:21:44And every business that wants to grow in the future,
00:21:46even post-pandemic has to really pay attention to that message.
00:21:52I think when we, again, I'm going to refer back to our research
00:21:56that we did during the COVID period.
00:21:58What we've seen is that the cash-only merchants,
00:22:03both across the UAE, Saudi, have struggled the most
00:22:08and have been most negatively impacted during the crisis.
00:22:10So just to quote you some numbers,
00:22:1358% of cash-only merchants in Saudi
00:22:16and nearly 50% of these merchants in the UAE
00:22:19have experienced a significant drop in revenues during the pandemic.
00:22:24In the UAE, there were a lot of businesses, obviously,
00:22:26who had an online footprint in some way, shape, or form.
00:22:31But the remaining 10% have now expressed an interest to get online.
00:22:37And I think a lot of them have pivoted, as you said,
00:22:40noon being one of them.
00:22:41I think they were into the sort of the noon daily
00:22:45was a quick pivot to make sure that they're able to be the providers
00:22:50for sustenance for a lot of families in the UAE and Saudi.
00:22:53So there is a huge digital transformation wave that's going through.
00:22:59And I think we need to think through long-term, even post-COVID.
00:23:03I think this is going to be an important step for any business to consider.
00:23:09So I think from our perspective,
00:23:10so Visa has made a commitment globally
00:23:14to support 50 million small to medium businesses worldwide
00:23:18that have been negatively impacted because of the COVID-19 situation.
00:23:22We are running a whole range of programs
00:23:25to help the small to medium businesses to accept digital payments,
00:23:30to enable their websites for e-commerce,
00:23:34to digitally transform their back office operations,
00:23:37and also to meet the increasing consumer demand for cashless.
00:23:43At the regional level, there is two specific things that we've done.
00:23:46So we've introduced a regional campaign called Where You Shop Matters,
00:23:52where we're trying to encourage consumers
00:23:55to essentially buy local and support local businesses.
00:24:00We have also created what we call a small business hub,
00:24:04because getting online for smaller businesses can be a daunting task.
00:24:08I think there is lots of help that's available.
00:24:11So we've created the small business hub that I'm talking about.
00:24:15You know, it offers information, it offers toolkits,
00:24:17it offers resources for smaller businesses that want to get online
00:24:21and enable e-commerce on their footprint.
00:24:25Another thing that we've done, again, in fact, in conjunction with Noon,
00:24:29is there was a period of time where, in fact,
00:24:32and I thought it was a bold move when Noon had actually removed cash on delivery,
00:24:39which is a brave move.
00:24:41And at that point in time, Visa and Noon had collaborated
00:24:43for first-time shoppers to get a discount if they paid by card.
00:24:49So that was a consumer adoption,
00:24:52basically just to encourage them to get into that behaviour.
00:24:55So there are lots of things that we've done in collaboration with our partners,
00:24:59and we'll continue to do so, because I think this is here to stay.
00:25:05Thank you for that.
00:25:06Yes, it's really interesting to hear about the programmes
00:25:09that you're putting in place to support local business and small business.
00:25:12It was just yesterday, wasn't it,
00:25:14that Dubai Chamber of Commerce and Industry
00:25:15established a restaurant business support group
00:25:19so that, you know, at every level of society,
00:25:22we're looking to help and support the businesses around us.
00:25:25So long may that continue and help the industries out.
00:25:30Okay, so Mr. Mohsam, let's look at e-commerce here.
00:25:33What role will e-commerce play in helping UAE retailers
00:25:37and businesses emerge from lockdown?
00:25:40Yeah, I think I must first say that
00:25:44the whole purpose of building Noon as a platform
00:25:47was actually to help local sellers, retailers, wholesalers,
00:25:52distributors to actually go online.
00:25:54We've been seeing a continuous shift in the consumer behaviour,
00:25:58and that's only accelerated by pandemic,
00:26:01for us to be able to shop online
00:26:02and find a lot more products available online.
00:26:05So as the pandemic started,
00:26:08and then we had a lot and lot of queries coming out of new sellers
00:26:13who wanted to become partners with Noon,
00:26:15and we have been working on launching various programmes
00:26:18across all our platforms that we operate.
00:26:20We operate, of course, the Noon.com and the mobile app of Noon.
00:26:24We launched the grocery business,
00:26:26and we now are accelerating the foray into fashion.
00:26:30Last weekend, I think the day before yesterday,
00:26:33Mr. Lappar also announced that
00:26:35Noon would actually get into food delivery
00:26:36because we want to support the local restaurants
00:26:39and probably help them protect the business and margins
00:26:42by giving them a very differentiated and a low-cost service
00:26:46versus what is being offered in the market today.
00:26:48So I think we at Noon are taking multiple-level initiatives
00:26:51to support the SMEs.
00:26:53We run a payment gateway internally,
00:26:56and we are offering a huge amount of discount
00:26:59and one-time savings for SMEs who sign up for it.
00:27:03And eventually, all of this happens
00:27:05in the partnership with the ecosystem, right?
00:27:06Like, of course, we build what we build,
00:27:10but working with Visa, working with Mashraq Bank,
00:27:14and many other partners that we have in the ecosystem,
00:27:16we've been able to really bring value to our sellers,
00:27:19both in terms of showcasing their products,
00:27:22helping them go online quite quickly.
00:27:25It's a completely touchless process.
00:27:27So today, there's no physical interaction
00:27:29that one needs to do to become an online seller at Noon.
00:27:32And we provide the end-to-end service, right?
00:27:34We pick up the products from the seller's place,
00:27:37put it into our warehouse,
00:27:39and then we ship it to the customer
00:27:40at the fastest speed possible.
00:27:42So the program that we run,
00:27:45which is called Fulfilled by Noon,
00:27:46which is, when you shop on Noon,
00:27:48you see something bad that's expressed,
00:27:50is actually a program that was meant to accelerate
00:27:53both on the customer side adoption of online commerce,
00:27:56but also help the sellers to really showcase their products
00:27:59in a more prominent way
00:28:00and have a much higher chance of conversion.
00:28:03And I think that has only accelerated with COVID.
00:28:06We have been actually struggling to manage space.
00:28:09We are growing out of space.
00:28:12When we build something for some amount of time,
00:28:14it just keeps running out
00:28:15because there's just so much demand from the SMEs already
00:28:19to use the platforms like us.
00:28:21And of course, we support them in all the ways possible,
00:28:23helping them manage their catalog,
00:28:25their content, the pricing.
00:28:28So all of that market development
00:28:29has actually been part of what we have been doing,
00:28:32and we have only doubled down on that effort
00:28:34over the last few months or quarters, I would say.
00:28:36So that's what we as e-commerce are playing a role.
00:28:39And of course, as Shabba said,
00:28:42we partnered with Lifes of Visa
00:28:45to make sure that we give back to the customers
00:28:48during this period
00:28:49and help them transition a lot more smoothly.
00:28:54That's really interesting,
00:28:56the point you're making about providing the marketplace,
00:28:58the virtual marketplace for local providers.
00:29:01I guess in so many areas of our life now,
00:29:03we're trying to find a new sense of community
00:29:07in a less contact world.
00:29:09So yeah, that's interesting, the business community,
00:29:12the small business community
00:29:13that you're all helping to foster there.
00:29:15We have another poll running.
00:29:17Given the likelihood that buying products online
00:29:20will only increase with time,
00:29:22has the transition so far been smooth?
00:29:26An astounding 87% says,
00:29:28yes, the transition has been smooth.
00:29:30Well, that is comforting as well,
00:29:31given that so many things about the pandemic
00:29:35have not been smooth.
00:29:36They've been very, very jolting, very jarring for us.
00:29:39So yes, 88% of people believe
00:29:41that the transition has been smooth so far.
00:29:44All right, let's ask Kartik a question for Visa.
00:29:49With the rise of contactless payments,
00:29:51what is the future in terms of new payment technologies
00:29:54that are likely to take off?
00:29:56Can you give us a glimpse into the future
00:29:58and tell us what is on our horizon?
00:30:02Sure, I'm happy to take that.
00:30:03Although Shabaz is from Visa, I'm from Mashrae.
00:30:08So sorry.
00:30:10But I'm happy to give you-
00:30:11Let's press both of you,
00:30:12so we're not playing favorites there.
00:30:18I think I just want to take a second and say,
00:30:21while I think Visa and Noon
00:30:23are doing a lot of work on the merchant community,
00:30:28I have been looking at, or Mashrae has been looking at
00:30:31supporting the customers, the clients
00:30:33that who actually shop there.
00:30:34In addition to the fact that we are the payment provider
00:30:39for Noon as it stands currently, right?
00:30:42So we partner with Noon,
00:30:44but also a number of our SME customers have gone online.
00:30:48But we were one of the first banks,
00:30:50if not the first bank, I think,
00:30:52who came out with a plan for all the people
00:30:55during this pandemic who were affected
00:30:58by COVID directly or indirectly.
00:31:00And I think we had the biggest
00:31:02and probably the most generous program
00:31:04that we had in the market,
00:31:05where we had several, two or three months
00:31:08of either interest-free or reduced interest payment holiday
00:31:13that we had given to our customers.
00:31:15And I think all of that helps
00:31:17because it allows people to keep going
00:31:19and get their necessities and just hang in there.
00:31:23Because in times like these,
00:31:24sometimes just that is important.
00:31:27But moving on to the future
00:31:28and what's probably coming down the tube,
00:31:33I think that there is a wave of new payment methods, right?
00:31:41And I think that started in the West
00:31:43and I think it's not reached the peak here yet.
00:31:48And I think there is more innovation
00:31:50to be done in that space.
00:31:52And the battleground on that is going to be,
00:31:55how do we have new payment methods
00:31:59that either target a particular segment
00:32:02or work on a particular use case
00:32:04and say, how do we be the best at that?
00:32:06How do we make sure that this is the best experience
00:32:09a customer can have, right?
00:32:11And so whether it's QR code,
00:32:13I mean, QR code is just a tech,
00:32:16but it allows us to serve a lot more clients
00:32:19that we wouldn't have been able to serve earlier
00:32:21because it's a lot cheaper to get it done.
00:32:24So it opens up a new segment of customers and QR code.
00:32:28I mean, if you've been to China,
00:32:29China, everywhere you just see QR codes.
00:32:32India is rapidly becoming the same.
00:32:34I'm not certain UAE or Dubai in particular
00:32:38will follow the same route,
00:32:40but I think that tech is here to stay.
00:32:42In the maybe medium term,
00:32:45we might even see biometric led,
00:32:47you know, cardless payment.
00:32:48A lot of digital payments that we talk about
00:32:52are running on card rails,
00:32:53but tomorrow it could be just blinking your eyes to pay
00:32:57or, you know, smile to pay as Alipay trialed.
00:33:00I don't think it's gone anywhere,
00:33:02but there are biometric methods
00:33:04that I don't think are out of the question.
00:33:07And let's say the five-year time horizon.
00:33:11I'm quite a smiley person,
00:33:14especially when the people around me are cracking jokes.
00:33:16I think I might need to keep my mask on
00:33:18if I'm going to be spending money
00:33:19every time I crack a smile.
00:33:21Maybe I'll get paid.
00:33:22Well, that's something else entirely.
00:33:26That was really interesting.
00:33:28Shahbaz, can you tell us from Visa's point of view
00:33:31about the new technologies
00:33:32that might be coming online in the future?
00:33:34Yeah, so I think Karthik's referred to a couple of them.
00:33:37We've talked about contactless.
00:33:38We've talked about e-commerce and card and file.
00:33:41I think another one that I believe
00:33:43the time's right in the UAE,
00:33:45and, you know, if you referred to earlier
00:33:46part of the conversation,
00:33:47we talked about, you know,
00:33:49stubborn pockets of cash.
00:33:50And Karthik said it's, you know,
00:33:51cash is not king, but it still remains important.
00:33:54I think technology that will really help sort of,
00:33:58you know, target those stubborn pockets of cash
00:34:00is P2P, right?
00:34:02So a lot of the bigger markets, bigger economies
00:34:05have enabled person-to-person payments.
00:34:07I think we should be able to enable those in the UAE.
00:34:11I think the technology exists.
00:34:13You know, we use it for cross-border remittances.
00:34:16I think we should be able to use it
00:34:17for local payments within the UAE as well.
00:34:19So I think that's an important payment mechanism
00:34:22that should be introduced.
00:34:24And I think, you know, we're working very closely
00:34:26with the central bank to sort of, you know,
00:34:27talk about that.
00:34:30As in, you know, another couple of things
00:34:32that will, that sort of really sort of sits on the back
00:34:36is really not top of mind when it comes to consumers,
00:34:39but I think really gaining traction.
00:34:42One is, you know, and Karthik alluded to
00:34:44a little bit of that earlier on,
00:34:45is security, right?
00:34:46So when all of these payments are shifting online,
00:34:49obviously the fraudsters are also shifting online.
00:34:51So how do we keep payments secure?
00:34:53So 3DS 2.0 that Karthik talked about,
00:34:57you know, we keep continuously innovating
00:35:00on how to make payments secure,
00:35:02how to build trust,
00:35:03and then how to keep consumers safe online.
00:35:05So I think that's one area
00:35:08where there is gonna be a lot of innovation
00:35:09that continues to be, it has been traditionally as well.
00:35:12And I think the last one,
00:35:14and I think the last one
00:35:15that I would sort of wanna talk about
00:35:17is analytics, right?
00:35:19So unlike cash, and this is an advantage
00:35:22of, you know, digital payment
00:35:25is that it creates,
00:35:28there is a footprint for the payment.
00:35:30And, you know, while there are, you know,
00:35:32consumers sometimes get a little bit nervous about privacy,
00:35:34but the good side of it is that,
00:35:37you know, players like Noon, players like Visa,
00:35:39and then, you know, and Mushrik are able to adapt
00:35:42to consumer, you know, understand the trends,
00:35:46adapt payment methods, services
00:35:49to meet those consumer needs.
00:35:51And I think that's really powerful.
00:35:54You know, if you are given a solution
00:35:56that is customized to you,
00:35:58I think that's really powerful.
00:35:59And I think the advances in data go a long way.
00:36:03And I think that's another area
00:36:05that there's a lot of work happening globally.
00:36:08Thank you for that, Shabaz.
00:36:10We have another poll running here.
00:36:12It is speed, convenience, and limited human contact
00:36:17are the main reasons cited
00:36:18for an increased preference for digital payments.
00:36:21How important is the security of payment technology for you,
00:36:25as we were just talking about?
00:36:2799% say very important.
00:36:29And one loan holdout,
00:36:32one person has voted not that important.
00:36:35I'd like to know that one person's reasons
00:36:37for security of payment technology not being important.
00:36:40Okay, let's move on.
00:36:42Well, let's stay with that.
00:36:43Fraudsters are seeking to take advantage
00:36:45of people spending more time online.
00:36:47How can stakeholders address security concerns?
00:36:50That might be one that all of you might like to...
00:36:53Mohsam, can you tell me briefly from Noon's point of view?
00:36:57How is Noon addressing fraudsters?
00:37:00Yeah, so we have actually addressed fraud
00:37:03at multiple levels.
00:37:05We work closely with the solutions
00:37:07that are provided by a couple of our partners,
00:37:10including Visa,
00:37:11who help us actually screen the transaction on the fly.
00:37:14So if we see somebody acting in a malicious way,
00:37:19try to game the system,
00:37:21try to do fraud transactions,
00:37:22we obviously block them.
00:37:24And they are not even taken to the next level.
00:37:27We also, because we gather a lot of data
00:37:30as customers are shopping about the IP,
00:37:32about multiple kind of data points,
00:37:35that the purchasing is free, et cetera.
00:37:37I think we know with a lot of sort of experience
00:37:41in handling this data,
00:37:42is whether a specific transaction
00:37:44is actually going to be a potential fraud.
00:37:46So what we have done is over a period of time,
00:37:50we have invested a lot
00:37:52in sort of pre-transaction frauds across the levels
00:37:56during our customer journey,
00:37:57the operations, the checkout process,
00:37:59and all of that.
00:38:00I think once the transaction is completed,
00:38:02we also have certain rules
00:38:03where we actually go and measure the transactions.
00:38:06We see if there are any kind of levers
00:38:09that we can catch
00:38:11before the actual delivery is happening.
00:38:13And sometimes customers whose cards are fraudulently used
00:38:16because of multiple issues,
00:38:18it can be a friendly fraud.
00:38:19It can be fraud where customer
00:38:21has actually compromised their card details
00:38:23and somebody is trying to take advantage of it.
00:38:25So obviously we do all of these checks
00:38:27both in terms of pre-transaction process
00:38:30as the customer money is going to get charged
00:38:32and also after the transaction has been completed.
00:38:36So we have invested in a lot of technologies,
00:38:39both in-house and using our third-party capabilities.
00:38:42And I'm really sort of proud of the numbers
00:38:46that we see in terms of
00:38:48what in industry terms we call as chargebacks,
00:38:51where customers are actually raising claims
00:38:53of a fraudulent transaction.
00:38:55And one of the main tricks that we closely monitor
00:38:59is actually how much those chargebacks are.
00:39:01And we at Noon actually have seen
00:39:03almost like a 0.00 some percentage of that number,
00:39:07which is better than the gold standards
00:39:10I have personally seen
00:39:11in many other places across the world.
00:39:13So obviously maintaining the user security,
00:39:17the payment gateway we use
00:39:18is actually a PCI DSS compliant,
00:39:21which is one of the leading security standards
00:39:23in the payment industry.
00:39:24And we have been successfully achieving
00:39:27the higher levels of security
00:39:28as we are getting into those certifications every year.
00:39:32So obviously we have invested a lot
00:39:34in keeping customer data secure,
00:39:35keeping the transaction information secure.
00:39:39All our pipes and connections are properly encrypted.
00:39:43We don't have data available to our merchants
00:39:49even about what the customer data is.
00:39:51Like we take it very seriously.
00:39:53And what we also do is actually
00:39:57across our networks and even the internal teams,
00:40:00they can't access the personal information.
00:40:02So all of that is completely encrypted.
00:40:04So that enables a lot of security internally.
00:40:07And we invest into an inner security team
00:40:11who continuously checks our technology.
00:40:13They do penetration testing.
00:40:14They do vulnerability assessments of all our stack
00:40:17to make sure that the stuff that is being used
00:40:21on a day-to-day basis by consumers
00:40:22is running with a watertight security.
00:40:25You know, recently we heard about Garmin
00:40:26and what happened to them.
00:40:27It's really astonishing to see a large organization
00:40:32like that being held by ransom by cyber attacks.
00:40:36And we take all of this really seriously.
00:40:39This region is prone to attacks.
00:40:41We have seen that in the past.
00:40:42And this is something that is top of our mind
00:40:45across the board as management at Moon.
00:40:48And as I said, we have invested at multiple fronts.
00:40:51Thank you so much, Massam.
00:40:53Kartik, can you explain for me,
00:40:55I guess on a psychological level,
00:40:57these are the pockets,
00:40:59the stubborn pockets of cash that we're seeing.
00:41:01They've obviously, I mean,
00:41:02the phrase that comes to mind with the pandemic
00:41:04is that push has come to shove,
00:41:06that they have had to adopt cashless.
00:41:09How do you reassure them?
00:41:10How do you deal with them, you know,
00:41:12on a psychological level
00:41:14to offer that kind of reassurance to them?
00:41:16You know, when they must admit
00:41:17that they must not use cash anymore.
00:41:20But how do you deal with the psychology of it?
00:41:23I think that's a tough question.
00:41:25It's a great question.
00:41:29I believe that fraud prevention is a team sport.
00:41:33I don't think it's just something we do alone.
00:41:36And I think we partner with Visa,
00:41:38we partner with MasterCard, American Express.
00:41:41We partner with, you know,
00:41:43our merchant partners like Moon and many others
00:41:46to firstly make sure that there are standards
00:41:49that are put in place
00:41:51that allow for customers to feel comfortable
00:41:54that if something were to happen,
00:41:56that they are protected, right?
00:41:59The second part of that is to communicate that.
00:42:03And I feel, I don't think we have done that great a job.
00:42:06I think there are standards in place already
00:42:09which should reassure customers
00:42:12that, you know, if they're shopping online,
00:42:14they are safe and they're protected.
00:42:16I think we have done a less good job
00:42:18of communicating that effectively.
00:42:20And I think that's something
00:42:21that I'm asking my team to at least work closely with Visa.
00:42:25I know they have had programs for years around that
00:42:28and maybe it's time to refresh some of that.
00:42:31And the third piece is actually making,
00:42:34if something were to happen,
00:42:36making that experience really, you know,
00:42:39quick, painless, and people see that
00:42:41even if something happened, you know,
00:42:43we were able to deal with it effectively and efficiently.
00:42:47And those are pieces where I think
00:42:49the tech part, the digital technology
00:42:52that we have to interact with,
00:42:54let's say if somebody got defrauded at noon,
00:42:56somebody used someone else's ID, right?
00:42:59That we are able to talk to noon instantly
00:43:01and we're able to talk to Visa instantly
00:43:04and make sure that, you know, the case is resolved
00:43:08as quickly as possible with the minimum documentation.
00:43:11So I think that's an area of focus for us.
00:43:13I think the standards and platforms exist
00:43:16and we just need to make sure
00:43:20that we are working that asset harder.
00:43:23Thank you for that.
00:43:25It's time now to move to our spectator,
00:43:28our audience questions because frankly,
00:43:30they're a lot more interesting than the ones that I have.
00:43:32Let's go to Irfan.
00:43:33Irfan has asked,
00:43:35for small business, how convenient is it
00:43:37to move to cashless?
00:43:39Are there heavy charges of payment gateways
00:43:41plus commissions?
00:43:42And is the market working on less margin?
00:43:44Let's ask Shahbaz from Visa.
00:43:48So I think, so the market's very competitive, right?
00:43:50So I think, you know, small businesses
00:43:52looking to enable digital payments,
00:43:56there are lots of options to choose from.
00:43:58You know, Mashriq is a very large provider obviously
00:44:00and, you know, it's a very competitive.
00:44:02So I don't think the margins are that high
00:44:04and especially when you compare it
00:44:05to loss of business in situations like these, right?
00:44:08So I think that's a manageable cost of doing business.
00:44:12It keeps coming down.
00:44:13You know, I have seen over the last two, three years,
00:44:17cost of acceptance have come down.
00:44:20Karthik alluded to QR codes.
00:44:23That's a relatively inexpensive way
00:44:26of accepting payments as well.
00:44:28So even that technology is available in the UAE.
00:44:30So I think the notion of cost of acceptance
00:44:34being too high is that actually of historic nature.
00:44:38I don't think that's a reality today.
00:44:42To be honest.
00:44:43And I don't know if Karthik wants to add anything to that,
00:44:45but that's my view.
00:44:46Yeah, Shahbaz, I would love to.
00:44:49So I would just add one thing,
00:44:51which is that it has never been easier
00:44:54to start accepting payments,
00:44:56especially digital payments as it is today.
00:44:59And you're right in saying margins
00:45:01have been just consistently coming down
00:45:04over the last three years in this market.
00:45:06Now the question is what is fair and what is relevant?
00:45:08I think it's a competitive market
00:45:10and the market determines what the market will bear,
00:45:15right, in that sense.
00:45:17But what I can say is it's never been easier
00:45:20and it's never been cheaper.
00:45:25Thank you both for that.
00:45:27One on e-commerce for Mohsam.
00:45:29Amit asks, it's evident that e-commerce
00:45:32has gained from this pandemic.
00:45:33However, in the long run,
00:45:34people will want to go out to brick and mortar stores.
00:45:37What would be the long-term measures
00:45:38to continue keeping customers engaged on e-commerce?
00:45:42Yeah, I think it's an amazing question.
00:45:44And I think this is something
00:45:46that keeps us awake every day, every night.
00:45:48Like how can we keep getting more and more
00:45:50to the consumers with respect
00:45:52to what they're wanting to buy online,
00:45:54whether it is their daily needs,
00:45:55whether it is something that they need in real time,
00:45:58whether they need something
00:45:59which is a planned purchase, an expensive item.
00:46:01So I think we have been working tirelessly
00:46:04on bringing these services over the last few months.
00:46:06And as I said, we are aggressively working
00:46:09towards getting our grocery service
00:46:11expand to other geographies.
00:46:13It's already live in UAE across most of the Emirates,
00:46:17covering a large part of population
00:46:18and gaining a huge traction already
00:46:20with a very high rate of customer satisfaction
00:46:23in both in terms of the speed
00:46:24and the quality of the service.
00:46:26So I do agree that, of course,
00:46:29you know, going out and shopping
00:46:33was been our best trend.
00:46:34And, you know, people visiting malls
00:46:36for shopping for, you know, their daily needs
00:46:38or whether the planned purchases
00:46:40will continue to stay.
00:46:41It's not going away anytime soon.
00:46:42But what I would always say,
00:46:44and I believe that, you know,
00:46:47the function of e-commerce growth
00:46:48is actually selection and price.
00:46:51You know, those are the two pillars
00:46:52along with an amazing service.
00:46:55And we at Noon have been working tirelessly
00:46:57to increase the selection of the customers
00:46:59so that you literally get what you want
00:47:03in no matter of time.
00:47:05And we have recently launched,
00:47:07you know, a new service,
00:47:08which is a hyperlocal delivery.
00:47:09It's called NowNow.
00:47:10In fact, I was wearing that mask today.
00:47:12And this service is actually,
00:47:15it's quite unique.
00:47:16You know, we are partnered
00:47:17with a lot of small and large chains
00:47:20and help customers to get the stuff
00:47:22instantly delivered.
00:47:23So I personally use that service
00:47:25two times a day to just,
00:47:26you know, shop anything that my wife needs.
00:47:28And it just shows up in less than an hour.
00:47:31And that's amazing.
00:47:32So, yes, there will be a need
00:47:34for customers to go.
00:47:35Maybe not everything will be available online
00:47:39that a customer needs.
00:47:40But I do believe that by innovating
00:47:42on multiple ways of customer needs,
00:47:45like building a grocery service,
00:47:47building an instant delivery service,
00:47:49building, of course,
00:47:50a core sort of large plethora
00:47:52of selection on the e-commerce,
00:47:56whether it is electronics, fashion,
00:47:57your home needs, your baby needs.
00:47:59I think that direction is continuously
00:48:01sort of getting accelerated.
00:48:03And as consumers are becoming
00:48:06a lot more savvy with shopping online
00:48:09using digital means
00:48:10and actually trusting the platforms,
00:48:13I think the need to go out
00:48:16is continuously going to diminish.
00:48:18And with a lot more innovation happening
00:48:21around even the technology, for example,
00:48:23in India, there are companies
00:48:25that actually allow you
00:48:25to try your clothes digitally.
00:48:27You can just pick up the clothes,
00:48:29put a photo or put the shoes down
00:48:32on your own feet using AR, right?
00:48:34And these things are gaining traction.
00:48:35And I believe as more and more innovation
00:48:37happens around how customers
00:48:39can shop online,
00:48:40the need to go physically
00:48:42and buy something
00:48:43will actually keep reducing.
00:48:45And that's a duty and responsibility
00:48:47of us as a platform.
00:48:49Thank you very much.
00:48:51We're coming towards
00:48:52the end of the session now,
00:48:54but we still have quite a few
00:48:55spectator questions to get through.
00:48:57If I might, I'll try and ask a few of them.
00:48:59Could we keep these last
00:49:01few answers quite tight
00:49:02so we can get through
00:49:03as many as possible?
00:49:04All right.
00:49:05So let us go to Marcus's question.
00:49:10I think I'll ask this one
00:49:11to Kartik, please, from Maastricht.
00:49:14What do you think of the main gaps
00:49:15and challenges for the UAE
00:49:17to become a cashless society,
00:49:18let's say, compared to Sweden,
00:49:20which is one of the leading countries,
00:49:22he says.
00:49:24I think we need some improvement
00:49:28on the universal ID.
00:49:30We have a form of that.
00:49:32I think it needs
00:49:32a little bit of enhancement
00:49:34to be able to reach everyone,
00:49:38you know, instantly digitally.
00:49:40The second piece is
00:49:41some enabling regulations,
00:49:43which I think we work
00:49:44with our regulators quite a lot.
00:49:46And I think those are on their way.
00:49:48And the third piece is,
00:49:50I think sometimes just allowing
00:49:53or having a platform for banks
00:49:56to create new kind of products.
00:49:58So in Sweden, for example,
00:49:59one of the products
00:50:01you're talking about
00:50:02allows you all banks
00:50:04to have a QR code-based P2P,
00:50:07P2M kind of solution
00:50:09where all banks participate.
00:50:11And I think that will take
00:50:12a little bit of time.
00:50:13So these three things.
00:50:17Shabaz, we have a question here for Visa.
00:50:19Is Visa doing anything currently
00:50:21to raise customers' awareness
00:50:23on fraud and new cybercrime threats
00:50:25targeting online shoppers?
00:50:26If yes, any examples?
00:50:28Says Hassam.
00:50:30So we've, so yeah, absolutely.
00:50:32So I think we go to market.
00:50:34So a couple of things.
00:50:35The first one is we work very closely
00:50:37with the regulator,
00:50:38the central bank of the UAE.
00:50:40We have worked very closely with them
00:50:41on the, what we call
00:50:43the Stay Secure campaign.
00:50:44So these are basically
00:50:45a set of regulations
00:50:47that, you know, keep consumers safe
00:50:50when they're either shopping
00:50:51face-to-face or online.
00:50:53We also collaborate very closely
00:50:55with our partners.
00:50:56So typically, so I mean,
00:50:57Visa is a B2B company.
00:50:59You know, people like Karthik
00:51:00and Mossam are our clients.
00:51:02So we actually work with them
00:51:03to go to market
00:51:04with a lot of these campaigns.
00:51:05So a lot of the customer
00:51:06awareness campaigns.
00:51:08We also conduct a lot of merchant
00:51:10training campaigns as well
00:51:11where we train merchants
00:51:12on how to deal with payments
00:51:15in the store.
00:51:17So these are a whole bunch of things
00:51:19that Visa has invested in
00:51:21to, you know, make sure
00:51:24that consumers remain safe
00:51:26either face-to-face or online
00:51:27when they're using electronic payments.
00:51:31Thanks, Shabaz.
00:51:32We have a question here
00:51:33from Rakeem for Mashreq.
00:51:36He says, Mashreq has done a great job
00:51:38in bringing digital in my comfort zone
00:51:40by providing Apple Pay.
00:51:42This has become my default way of paying.
00:51:44Where I do feel is a gap
00:51:46is the loyalty part.
00:51:47Can Mashreq play a role there?
00:51:49I guess in bridging the gap
00:51:51with that with Apple Pay?
00:51:55I'm not certain I understand the question,
00:51:57but let me try to decode that.
00:52:00I think if loyalty can be,
00:52:03you know, done instantly
00:52:05like Apple Pay payments are being done,
00:52:08I think that is an area
00:52:10which requires technology investment.
00:52:13That investment is something
00:52:14that we are actually doing.
00:52:16So probably if all goes well
00:52:19by the end of this year,
00:52:21we should have a reward platform
00:52:23which is as instant
00:52:25as what you see in Apple Pay.
00:52:29Oh, I think we just got a hint there.
00:52:32And I think we'll make this
00:52:34the final question from Siva.
00:52:37What is the strategy for Mashreq
00:52:38and Visa with regards to trials
00:52:40in fintech innovation,
00:52:42develop in-house
00:52:43or partner up with start
00:52:45or partner with startups?
00:52:46So yes, I'll ask Siva first.
00:52:49What is the strategy
00:52:49for Mashreq and Visa
00:52:50with regards to trials
00:52:51and fintech innovation?
00:52:54So we've, so Visa is really,
00:52:55I mean, we've been at the forefront
00:52:57with partnering with fintechs
00:52:58in the region.
00:52:59I think we've realized quite early on
00:53:01that we don't want
00:53:02to be building everything.
00:53:03I think if there is
00:53:04good technology available,
00:53:05there are lots of promising fintechs
00:53:06in the region.
00:53:07I think the region has been a hub
00:53:08for fintechs for a long time now.
00:53:11So we partner quite extensively
00:53:12with a lot of fintechs.
00:53:14In the region to bring new experiences,
00:53:17new technology,
00:53:19you know, our recent partnership
00:53:20that we announced with Kareem Peh
00:53:22is an example of that.
00:53:24You know, we also collaboratively work
00:53:26with Mashreq on some
00:53:28of these fintech partnerships.
00:53:30We introduced a global program,
00:53:32which is also live in this region.
00:53:33It's called the fintech fast track program,
00:53:35which is anybody, any fintech
00:53:36that wants to work with Visa
00:53:39has got a accelerated way to do so.
00:53:42So, you know, that's
00:53:44our flagship program we run here.
00:53:46And we're really open to working
00:53:48with fintechs in the region.
00:53:52And yes, the other side to that coin?
00:53:55I don't think it's the other side at all.
00:53:57I think it's a one sided coin.
00:53:59So in our cashless society,
00:54:03I would say that Mashreq today
00:54:05partners with at least
00:54:08two dozen startups already
00:54:10who are our partners
00:54:12in different processes,
00:54:13because our belief is that
00:54:14we don't hold IP rights
00:54:15to all the good ideas in the world.
00:54:17And whether it's, you know, partnering,
00:54:20whether it's, you know, revenue share,
00:54:24whether it's, you know,
00:54:26renting a platform,
00:54:27we are open to all these kind of ideas.
00:54:30And at this point of time,
00:54:31I can tell you I'm personally involved
00:54:33with dozens of conversations
00:54:34with startups where we're evaluating
00:54:37different levels from investment
00:54:39to, you know, a simple buyout
00:54:41kind of situation.
00:54:42Sorry, I don't mean buying out the fintech,
00:54:44but buying the technology.
00:54:48I think this is one that indirectly,
00:54:50I'm going to ask to Mossam.
00:54:51We have a question from Danny here.
00:54:53If I go to a local street vendor,
00:54:56he doesn't have a credit card,
00:54:57debit card payment machine.
00:54:59He will insist on cash payment.
00:55:00What is the solution to make
00:55:02this street vendor have access
00:55:03to cashless without a credit card machine?
00:55:06I think that Mossam can.
00:55:08Yeah, I think I would say that
00:55:10Karthik already answered that question earlier
00:55:13with a lot of details.
00:55:14And I believe, you know,
00:55:16we need to bring out newer solutions
00:55:18to the country.
00:55:20You know, the traditional post machines,
00:55:22hardware systems are not something
00:55:23that everybody can adapt to.
00:55:25And China and India have shown the way
00:55:27that is a way possible
00:55:28that you don't need a hardware
00:55:29to accept payments.
00:55:30A simple printout on a four sheet
00:55:32with a QR code is good enough
00:55:33for you to accept payments.
00:55:36And I think for those kind of use cases,
00:55:38this is a brilliant fit
00:55:41that can really work
00:55:43to enable such kind of merchants
00:55:45to accept payments on,
00:55:46you know, digitally without cash.
00:55:49And of course,
00:55:50Shahbaz touched upon P2P payments.
00:55:52I think with the regulations
00:55:54getting in place
00:55:55and hopefully coming out very soon,
00:55:57I think there is a way
00:55:59where we can enable the P2P payments,
00:56:01even P2M payments.
00:56:02When I say P2M is from a purchaser
00:56:04to the merchant
00:56:05and I think those kind of payment methods
00:56:07will start seeing a lot more adoption
00:56:10as we go along.
00:56:12It's already happening in Saudi
00:56:13as we speak.
00:56:15There is a decent amount of traction
00:56:18and a huge amount of regulatory effort
00:56:20that has gone to create the ecosystem
00:56:22or the infrastructure,
00:56:23I should say,
00:56:25to enable such kind of payments.
00:56:26And I think we at Nona
00:56:28are aggressively working in that direction
00:56:30to bring such kind of capabilities
00:56:32with, of course, our ecosystem partners
00:56:34so that people don't have to carry cash anymore.
00:56:37Your mobile device is good enough.
00:56:42Okay, we've got probably time
00:56:44for a last one here.
00:56:45I'll wrap a few questions into one.
00:56:47We're getting a few questions
00:56:48about prepaid cards or virtual cards.
00:56:51Maybe all of you,
00:56:53Shahbaz, I'll start with you.
00:56:54What are your thoughts
00:56:55on using virtual debit or credit cards
00:56:57instead of physical ones?
00:56:59It's a great idea.
00:57:00I think it's already there.
00:57:01It's already live.
00:57:02I think there are rules in place
00:57:06where you can issue only a virtual card as well.
00:57:09In fact, Kartik and I were talking about it yesterday.
00:57:12So look, I think a lot of the technologies,
00:57:15especially around tokenization,
00:57:17so when you get a card
00:57:19and you tokenize it to your Apple Pay
00:57:22or a Samsung Pay wallet,
00:57:24that's the virtual card.
00:57:25You don't need to carry the physical card
00:57:26anymore after that.
00:57:29I think there is room
00:57:30to have a virtual only card as well.
00:57:33It's just a matter of,
00:57:34I think it depends on consumer preferences.
00:57:36If consumers are happy
00:57:37to live without a physical card,
00:57:38I think I'm pretty sure
00:57:39all of us will be happy to issue.
00:57:43It costs money to issue a physical card.
00:57:44So I'll be more than happy
00:57:45for people to carry a virtual card.
00:57:47Do we still call it a card then
00:57:49if it's not a card?
00:57:50We call it a credential
00:57:51if you wanted to know
00:57:52the industry term for it.
00:57:53But yeah, that's what it is.
00:57:56I'm not sure if that one
00:57:57will catch on in consumer land.
00:57:59I don't think so.
00:58:00Mohsam, can you deal in a world
00:58:02without a physical card?
00:58:05I have been living in that world
00:58:06for quite some time now.
00:58:07Actually, I don't remember
00:58:08when I used my physical card last time.
00:58:11Wherever I go,
00:58:12I just tap the phone and it's done.
00:58:14And of course, I think
00:58:16that's the direction
00:58:17the world is going.
00:58:18The only time I probably use
00:58:20a physical card is to withdraw cash
00:58:22for a payment that has to be made
00:58:24through cash.
00:58:24And I hope those will be addressed
00:58:27by likes of Visa very, very soon.
00:58:29But yeah, I mean, technically for last,
00:58:33I would say like the whole pandemic,
00:58:35I didn't use my card at all.
00:58:36It was all digital payment
00:58:39either through mobile device or e-commerce.
00:58:41And thanks to the company I work,
00:58:43they actually addressed a big need
00:58:45which was groceries.
00:58:47Fantastic.
00:58:47Can I end the questions here
00:58:49with one that I'm asking
00:58:50of my own here for Kartik?
00:58:52You told us a little story
00:58:53the other day about an example
00:58:55in your life when cash
00:58:57was actually quite useful to you.
00:58:59Yeah.
00:58:59Do you mind sharing that with us again?
00:59:01Sure.
00:59:02So, and that's why I think,
00:59:04you know, cash can never disappear
00:59:06or at least I hope it doesn't.
00:59:08Because in China,
00:59:09cash has almost disappeared
00:59:13to a much larger extent than here.
00:59:15And I was visiting China
00:59:17and I was going to a small city
00:59:19called Hangzhou,
00:59:20which is about 100 miles from Shanghai.
00:59:23And I had just flown in
00:59:25and I was alone
00:59:26and I was about to catch
00:59:28a high-speed train to Hangzhou
00:59:30from Shanghai terminal.
00:59:32So I reached there
00:59:33and of course,
00:59:35everything is in Chinese.
00:59:36Everything is in Mandarin.
00:59:38And everywhere I go,
00:59:40they only accept digital payments
00:59:42except the two forms
00:59:44of digital payments
00:59:45they accept are only
00:59:46China UnionPay branded cards
00:59:49and Alipay wallet, right?
00:59:51And neither of these payment methods
00:59:53is available to me.
00:59:55And it so happens
00:59:57that I later found out.
00:59:58So I had to actually literally
01:00:00jump into a taxi
01:00:02and, you know,
01:00:03drive for six hours to get there.
01:00:06Whereas the high-speed train
01:00:07would have taken an hour
01:00:08to get me there.
01:00:10So not fun, right?
01:00:12It later turns out
01:00:13that there is a counter
01:00:15which accepts cash
01:00:16on one or two counters.
01:00:18But of course,
01:00:19I couldn't figure it out
01:00:20because I don't understand Chinese.
01:00:21Maybe that's the lesson here
01:00:23that I should learn Chinese.
01:00:25That is a high price to pay.
01:00:28Six hours versus one hour.
01:00:30Thank you so much for your time.
01:00:31I'd like to thank
01:00:32all of our panelists today.
01:00:34Kartik Taneja,
01:00:35Head of Payments at Mushrik Bank.
01:00:38Shahbaz Khan,
01:00:39UAE General Manager at Visa.
01:00:43And Mohsam Gharia,
01:00:44Senior Vice President of Finance
01:00:46and Digital Payments at Noon.
01:00:48Thank you so much to my team
01:00:50here at Gulf News
01:00:51and to all of you
01:00:52for your time this morning as well.
01:00:54If you'd like to read more
01:00:55about today's topic,
01:00:56we will have a summary article
01:00:57that comes up on Gulf News,
01:00:59either out in your store
01:01:02or on gulfnews.com.
01:01:04Thank you for your time.
01:01:05I'm Noni Edwards for Gulf News.
01:01:07I'll see you again next time.
01:01:08Have a great day.
01:01:10Thank you, Noni.
01:01:11Thanks, Noni.
01:01:13Thanks a lot.