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00:00So Alan, welcome to 442. We're going to do a little Euro 96 look back.
00:17Good.
00:18Iconic, semi-iconic tournament for England.
00:19Good times.
00:20Indeed. Pre-tournament then, presumably you would be raring to go. You were in the prime
00:26of your career. England had missed USA 94 and there had been no competitive games for
00:30two years. So you must have been ready to go.
00:33I was ready to go but I hadn't scored in those competitive games leading up to the tournament
00:38for two years. So it was about 13 games if I remember rightly. I was ready to go but
00:43I was also under huge pressure from everyone, including my teammates, the manager, the fans
00:51of the number of forwards that were around then that were also scoring goals on a regular
00:57basis. I'd scored for Blackburn, I think I'd got 34 that season. So it wasn't as if I wasn't
01:04scoring but I just couldn't score for England leading up to the tournament. Then Terry Venables
01:08pulled me to one side about a month before the tournament and said to me, whatever happens
01:14you will be my number one centre forward and you will start that first game against Switzerland.
01:19I just thought wow, for him to have that belief in me. I felt as if I couldn't let
01:26him down and I had to go out. Luckily I scored in the first game against Switzerland and
01:33then went on to finish top scorer. God knows what would have happened if I hadn't scored
01:37but I owed Terry a lot for having that belief in me.
01:42I suppose the story of Euro 96 starts for England in China. Can you remember why that
01:47was picked as a destination for the pre-tournament warm-up games?
01:49I haven't got a clue. China and Hong Kong. I remember more about it in Hong Kong in the
01:55dentist chair than I do the games to be honest. We'd finished and we were on our way home
02:03and we decided to go out or we were let out to go out for a few drinks. That turned into
02:08a few more and a few more and then before we know it, there was one or two in the dentist
02:13chair and things had gone a bit too far. I was there but I was at the back. I could
02:20see everything happening but I was hiding away at the back. I just thought this is not
02:27going to be a good look if this gets out. It did and then all hell broke loose. To be
02:34fair to the manager Terry, he stuck by us and he used that as a rod really for us to
02:43repay him. Everyone loved him. We all respected him. He was an amazing coach and a genius
02:52as a man-manager and he used that to his strength. We all got together and we realised what had
03:01happened. We realised how bad it looked and being front page instead of back page. He
03:10used that to his advantage and it worked because as I said we all respected him and got on
03:16great with him and we were all determined not to let him down. Did the problem start
03:21when Terry sent Brian Robson to be the chaperone for that evening? It's not a good idea really.
03:26Robbo was renowned for having as good time as anyone. He was a great bloke Robbo and
03:32still is obviously. Probably not the wisest of ideas to send Robbo out and keep an eye
03:38on us. Everyone loved him and he got on with everyone as well but we all know Robbo did
03:47like a pint or two. Very sensible move from you as a 25-year-old to back away when you
03:52noticed things were getting a bit light. I don't know if that was through luck or other
03:56people I was with. I was with the Umbro guys. Good friend of mine Simon Marsha was with
04:01us and he was the one that kept me back at the bar rather than going into the centre
04:08into the dentist chair. We'll get to the football in a bit but I'm still very interested in
04:12China because a lot obviously happened. The flight home, Gaza says in his book that he
04:18was asleep on the plane until someone slapped him in the face. I don't know who that was.
04:23Well he did say actually it was you. I don't know if we need to get the lawyers involved.
04:29Was that yourself? Because that caused a bit of an excitable Gaza on the flight. I don't
04:35think Gaza needed any prompting to be excitable. Honestly to this day I couldn't tell you whether
04:42it was me or not. I wouldn't take his word for it. Someone must have done something to
04:49upset him. He didn't need much prompting did he? Honestly I couldn't tell you whether it
04:58was me or not and I'm not just saying that. Fair enough. It was an interesting summer
05:02for yourself as well because your club future was up in the air. Can you remember what your
05:05frame of mind was? Because that would have presumably been quite a big distraction but
05:09obviously it didn't distract you when the tournament actually started. No it wasn't
05:12a distraction at all because I just said I'm putting everything on hold until after the
05:17tournament and that's exactly what I did. I knew how important the tournament was. I
05:23knew how much I had to go out and score and I couldn't let anything else get in the way
05:27of that. As tough as it was, it was parked until after the tournament. I didn't speak
05:36to anyone regarding my future at club level at all during the tournament and it was all
05:41going to be done after it. Did you think you were leaving Blackburn though? Not really
05:45no. I knew that I had big decisions to make but there was also still an opportunity or
05:50a chance that I was going to stay at Blackburn. I hadn't a clue what I was going to do. I
05:56knew that I had chances. I knew that we'd sort of finished further down the league than
06:02I wanted to do after winning the league the season before. But no honestly I didn't have
06:09a clue what I was going to do. Does Alan Shearer get nervous before games? He'd have been forgiven
06:13for being nervous before. No not excited, not nervous. They're not in their stomach
06:21but I think that's a good thing. I don't think that's nerves. I think that was excitement
06:25rather than anything but I never really got nervous. I just wanted to get out there and
06:30get started. And where does the Switzerland goal rank? A huge relief to get to open the tournament.
06:35I think in terms of importance it was one of the most important goals I ever scored.
06:40I mean it wasn't one of the better goals. It was a good pass, it was a good run and a decent
06:45finish but in terms of importance yeah right right up there. Was the Scotland game the biggest
06:51game of your career to date at that stage do you think? Not really no. In terms for England
06:58or a club level? I think just the magnitude of playing Scotland and both teams had drawn
07:02their opening games. It just felt like a massive game at the time. No it was a huge game I mean
07:08in terms of being the most important in my career probably not. But in terms of it being a big game
07:16yeah it was big. I mean all England Scotland games whether it's Wembley or Hampden or wherever
07:21it may be are big games. But that game could have went either way as well. I mean we hadn't
07:27played fantastically well against Switzerland. We drew the game. We didn't play really well either
07:35against Scotland. We got a little bit of luck with them missing the penalty because if they
07:38score that penalty then who knows. They miss it and then within a few minutes we're up at the
07:42other end and Gaza scores that brilliant goal. And it's really funny actually because not many
07:48people remember who scored the first goal. Obviously I do but everyone remembers and
07:52rightly so because that was such an iconic moment in English football to do it against
07:58Scotland at Wembley in a major tournament, Gaza. I mean the brilliance of the goal was
08:05something else as not many people could have done that if any. There'd been calls for him to be
08:09dropped before the game but you did just feel he had that moment of brilliance in him and so it
08:14proved him. Yeah I mean there was plenty of calls for him not even being in the squad.
08:21But Terry knew him better than anyone and he loved Terry. He had a respect for him and it
08:27was vice versa. So I think Terry knew that Gaza owed him and we all owed him and again it was
08:36how good he was at the man management thing Terry and using that to his advantage and the team's
08:40advantage. So if anyone was going to do that then it was going to be Gaza. And when he did score
08:46your reaction was brilliant. You ran straight to the ball and did the dentist chair. We did the
08:50dentist chair. That was all planned. Whoever was going to be nearest to whoever scored then
08:58that celebration was always planned and well planned and it worked out pretty well. And
09:02obviously just prior to that was Gary McAllister's missed penalty. The moving ball, did you see that
09:08at the time? I didn't see it at all. No I didn't see it. Obviously I wasn't far behind it but I
09:15didn't see the ball move at all until after the game. Did you chat about that in the dressing
09:20room with the players? Did anyone reference that? Not that I can remember to be honest, no.
09:25Who was the guy that tried to claim that he moved it? Uri Geller. That's it, Uri Geller.
09:30I remember reading about that nonsense but I don't remember it too much being mentioned in
09:35the dressing room. The following game, Holland, they were the tournament favourites. 92 favourites
09:40to win. England's performance was shockingly good. Did it take you by surprise or did you
09:46feel like England had a performance like that? No, I felt as if there was something special
09:51happening before the game on the way there because the atmosphere was sort of building
09:55after the Scotland game. The confidence and the belief in the country and the thousands of people
10:00that started to line the streets when we got within a mile or two of Wembley. The music got
10:06a bit louder on the bus and the atmosphere on the way to the game and everyone else was getting
10:10that a little bit more excited. But I didn't see us putting in that performance against them.
10:16No, I felt we could win but not as convincingly as we did. That was probably the best England
10:24atmosphere I played in and without doubt I think a highlight of my career with England.
10:33The atmosphere during the game, before the game and particularly after was just
10:38off the charts and it was when we went back to the hotel as well. We had such a great atmosphere
10:42and we had such a great squad and I think that was probably the first time we felt we could
10:48perhaps go on and win this. Your second goal against the Dutch, was that the best team goal
10:53you've ever been involved in? You overloaded them and found the extra man which was you and you
10:58powered it into the top corner. I've mentioned Terry a few times because of how good he was.
11:05We talk now about how Pep and Jürgen changed systems, changed players. Terry was doing that
11:12back in 1996. We played three or four different systems during that game and we knew we were
11:17going to change. We knew we were going to flip into a three at the back or four at the back or
11:22Gary Neville was going to push further upfield or whatever it was. We knew that we were going to
11:26play different systems and that's how good he was but to do it against an opposition how good
11:32they were and to make them look as poor as we did then, we felt that was in us but not as much as that.
11:40Patrick Kluivert famously scored late and sent Scotland home. Yeah that was the perfect evening
11:45because us winning, scoring four, winning the game and then us conceding one which ultimately
11:51knocked Scotland out didn't it so it was the perfect evening. The Venables regarded Spain as
11:58stronger than Italy, Germany and Holland and that was who England played in the quarterfinal.
12:04It was the first time England had experienced a golden goal situation as well. How did that
12:08affect you as a player? Did you think it sort of tightened things up in extra time? Yeah it was
12:12all a bit, it wasn't a great game that. I mean it was a bit tight and tense and could have went either
12:17way but what I remember about that is I know I'd scored the first penalty but I was also aware of
12:27who was coming next. I knew that Stuart Pearce was coming after his miss in 90, him and Chris
12:33Waddle are missing. For someone to step up again and say give me the penalty and it was redemption
12:40time if you like. I mean I can't tell you the pressure that you're under and the walk from the
12:47halfway line to the penalty spot is the longest walk you'll ever make in your life. There's a
12:52million things going through your head. When it's going well there's a million
12:58things going through and when you haven't, when you've missed a penalty like he has and the size
13:03of it and the enormity of missing a penalty in a World Cup then to say oh all right I'll take
13:08another one. I think we were all probably as worried as he was and you can tell
13:15even now if you look at the pictures of it or the videos of it the reaction and the relief
13:20on his face more than anything is incredible. Nothing was said in the Spanish press of
13:26Herrero and Nadal who missed the Spanish penalties and they've rarely been asked about it afterwards
13:30yet Southgate, Waddle, Pearce they get asked about. I suppose that tells us a lot really about the
13:36English mentality towards... Well I mean it might be different in their country. The questions
13:42in Spain would have been as probably as intense as they were here when Waddle and
13:49Pearce missed I guess but just because we're in our country I suppose we focus more on that but
13:57yeah I mean I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy you know missing a penalty of that size and
14:02and I mean you've got you've got millions of people watching on television all around the
14:08world and in England or wherever you've got the 90,000 in the stadium who are watching you
14:15but I think you're under more pressure because of the 10 or 20 guys behind you and your team
14:21who you don't want to let down you know and that's why you're under the most pressure so
14:26it's a it's a bloody tough walk that is but it's probably even tougher if you haven't hit the back
14:31of the net. Thankfully I've never experienced that. I mean in thankfully England won a penalty
14:37shootout and set up a famous game against Germany in the semi-final. Is it true you forgot the three
14:42lines tape to play on the bus on the way to Wembley? Is that story true? No not that I remember
14:47no I wasn't aware it was it was my job I mean I wasn't captain then in 96 so I was captain a
14:55couple of months after that but it wasn't my I don't think that was my job to remember that but
15:00I always remember those coach journeys from the hotel to the ground they were brilliant I mean
15:04because you're on your own you're in the zone the music's blasting and everything else and
15:09yeah there were good moments but I can't remember that no. Can you remember when you first heard the
15:14song and it caught on after the Scotland game I think? I remember that yeah when we were asked to
15:20take part in it I'm thinking what am I doing getting involved in in a video of I mean you
15:26know when you go into cup finals and you see all these players making prats of themselves when
15:30they go into get involved in this song and that's I think I don't I'm not
15:35skinnering the deal you know I was thinking but then it was such an iconic song I mean even now
15:40fans are singing it before the Euros and what have you for England so in a strange way it was
15:45great to be a part of yeah. Do you ever pop it on quietly? I can't remember the last time I played
15:51it no but I was forever playing it during June 96 even at night time you know it was blasting out
15:56of my room here. So between 66 and 96 it was obviously the 30 years of hurt England had played
16:03Germany 13 times lost nine of those games won two friendlies yet we played them in the same
16:08final you scored after 133 seconds did you think this is it we're destined to get the final?
16:14I think we thought that after Holland you know and then to win a penalty shootout against Spain
16:20so you just you know when you just get that feeling that this might just be it and then
16:25me scoring after a minute and a half yeah and in the semi-final yeah we got the feeling that
16:31that was it but we knew because of who they were and what they were Germany at times
16:36against good opposition you're gonna have to suffer and it's I suppose you need a little
16:41bit of luck here and there they could have won it we could have won it with Gaza in extra time
16:47but then it goes down to penalties again yeah. The game became you know they equalised the game
16:54became tense but I felt the extra time England who were naturally a more attacking team they
16:59seemed to go for it was that instruction from Terry Venables to let's try and get this done
17:03with a golden goal and extra time? Yeah I think so yeah I mean that was that was Terry was always
17:07positive that was always his mentality was that we were better than them we could take the game
17:11more to them we had we had more energy and but it's you have your penalty takers but very very
17:23rarely are the are those you know still on the pitch at times you know you've got I don't know
17:27you you look at tiredness or you look at whatever but if I remember rightly I mean there were 10
17:33unbelievable penalties from five from us and and five from from Germany and then you're into
17:39I'm reluctant to say they also rans but then you're into the guys who really don't want to
17:43take a penalty and it was one where okay and you can see one or two heads going down when the
17:52managers who's looking around to who wants to take the penalty after the first five that are chosen
17:59or who are the first five who have said yeah and practiced but then you're into I think you're
18:06in the luck land really of what happens after that. Those players you say who who put their
18:12heads down do you remember the conversations do you hold any resentment towards those lads who
18:16didn't want to step up? No never because if you if you're asked you've got to be you've got to
18:22be honest in that situation because it is really tough it's really hard you know that that if you
18:28and if you've never taken penalties and you've never been in that situation then the manager
18:33looks at you he said you want one and or if you're putting your head down in the hope that
18:37the manager doesn't ask you because you don't want to be looked upon as weak I guess but then
18:44you're into who's brave or who's stupid I guess and and Gareth was one of the brave ones and sort
18:49of put his hand up and said and I guess maybe in hope because think that it might it probably
18:54won't get past the the five that have put their hands up so yeah I remember it well and looking
19:02around and thinking okay we probably should be all right here because I was I was confident with
19:06who we'd had because we'd already won one shoot out in the quarterfinal. And I mean you you can
19:12be critical of as a striker of Gareth's penalty it was it was a it was a bit weak it was too central
19:18can you remember how he was afterwards do you remember did you speak to him in the change? Yeah
19:22I mean everyone was just in console mode you know just to make sure he was he was all right
19:29and you had to face the reality of it I mean we'd been away for for a month and it's
19:36a long month you're getting into the last few days of the tournament although we're all devastated
19:42and he was I mean he had to live with that still does now and I suppose it's out of his system now
19:47because he's won a penalty shoot out as a manager but you have to live with that for the rest of
19:53your life which is is tough as you've got to go back to pre-season you've got to go back to playing
20:00so as I said I wouldn't I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy because it's such a really difficult
20:06situation to to be in so there was no animosity there was no anger it was just we were proud
20:12because we'd given everyone something to shout of it was such a great tournament but it just wasn't
20:19to be. You mentioned that that Gazza moment in extra time you volleyed it across to him I just
20:24my read of that is sort of his football and IQ was so high he's tried to read the goalkeepers
20:29parry and hesitated. Yeah there's just that I mean I've watched it a million times as you can imagine
20:34I'm thinking what the f**k have you stopped for you know it's like but yeah he just has that he
20:40just there's that split second which may be the made all the difference I suppose it was I don't
20:46know why he hesitated I don't know what the reason was perhaps he thought he could get to it
20:52and then stopped again and what have you I mean it was a it was a cross come shot for me it was
20:57one of those where if you if you hit it at the far post someone might get on the end of it but
21:02no one did. He said if it was the other way around him volleying it to you your instinct would have
21:05been to go the ball. Probably yeah I mean I don't know you'd never know that but I guess so yeah.
21:10Did you watch the final Czech Republic were 80-1? I did you know I mean I was such a I suppose
21:17I'm putting my selfish head on here yeah I remember watching it and sat there like that
21:21because I think if there was one thing to come out of the tournament then at least I could walk
21:26away with a golden boot but I was also aware that if Jürgen Klinsmann had scored a hat-trick
21:33and there was every chance because you're playing the Czech Republic who weren't great I mean it's
21:37pretty much a given whoever won between us and Germany were going to go on and win the tournament
21:42so I sat there with my hands over my face hoping and praying that Jürgen wouldn't score so I could
21:47at least take home the golden boot. 442 is 30 years old this year our first ever cover was
21:53Terry Venables so we'll leave the last word to Terry he did multiple systems during Euro 96
22:00he should be given credit for backing you coming into it on a barren run yeah and where does he
22:05rank in in terms of managers he played he was a genius everyone loved him everyone respected him
22:13he made training really difficult but really enjoyable that so much that you didn't really
22:18want to come off the training ground and yeah he was ahead of his time what Pep and what Jürgen
22:24are doing now he was doing in 96 and before that brilliant thank you thanks very much