At the India Today Conclave 2025, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Dinesh Tripathi addressed India's maritime security challenges, highlighting concerns over China's expanding naval presence and the evolving nature of warfare. He also detailed the Navy's strategic approach to counter adversaries, emphasising the need for self-reliance in defence technology. Admiral Tripathi also underscored how India's geographical position provides a crucial advantage in the Indian Ocean region.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Imagine the Indian Navy, from the east coast of Africa to the west coast of Australia,
00:08from the North Arabian Sea to the South China Sea,
00:12the Indian Navy is actually being looked at as the net service provider across the region.
00:19I mean, this is not what we want.
00:21This is what the world expects of Indian Navy and of India,
00:27given that we are in such a commanding position.
00:29But what are the challenges that we face in this battle and a tough battle,
00:35given that the Dragon is trying to expand its footprints in our waters,
00:40given that Pakistan, China, Tango, and especially in the field of Navy,
00:44new technology that's coming in, underwater gliders, Admiral Dinesh Tripathi,
00:49it is such a privilege for us to have you on our special India Today show.
00:54We want to understand from you, the Chief of the Naval Staff,
00:57what you consider the biggest challenge, given what you've seen in the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
01:09Thank you very much, Gaurav. Thank you, Rahul.
01:14First of all, I want to thank the India Today group for inviting me.
01:20And I'm delighted to be here at the 21st edition of India Today Conclave.
01:26Now, my generation of Indian citizens have grown up, actually, with India Today.
01:33I remember in 1975, your magazine, India Today, came out with the first edition.
01:41And now you're celebrating the 50th year, so congratulations.
01:45It was a monthly magazine. If all of you remember, I think it was costing 2 rupees 50 paisa then.
01:49Became a fortnightly, a few years later.
01:52And then a weekly magazine of review today, giving a comprehensive coverage.
01:58So I would, and subsequently, of course, you delve into the electronics, digital and TV domains,
02:06at particular periods of time in our journey.
02:09So in the last 50 years, I would not be too wrong to say that the growth of India Today
02:18has been co-terminous with the growth of today's India.
02:22And that I have seen it physically going, especially in the last decade or so.
02:27So congratulations on that first. Coming to your questions per se,
02:34you know, we in the Indian Navy take pride that we are a learning organization.
02:41And therefore, we keep a weather's eye on what's happening in geopolitics around the world,
02:48what's happening in the security domain.
02:53This is for us to prepare for what is to come.
02:59And also what is not probably seen right now, but what may come a few years from now.
03:04So if I have to summarize three takeaways from the ongoing conflicts,
03:12I think the first would be that the use of technology.
03:22And Russia-Ukraine war especially has demonstrated very clearly,
03:32or rather busted the myth that there are going to be short and swift wars.
03:39Because the use of technology now has enabled a smaller or untested opponent
03:48to match a bigger opponent, especially if supported,
03:54and with the kind of resilience which has been demonstrated by the smaller actor.
03:59So that is the first one which we have to be careful.
04:03Jury is still out that can one or two, second one of course you know what I am talking about,
04:09can these two conflicts conclusively prove that there are not going to be short or swift wars.
04:14But that is the one takeaway which we have taken.
04:17Second is, you know in times of conflict, you have to demonstrate sustainability.
04:27And for that, there will be disruptions in supply chain.
04:34There will be disagreements.
04:38And that leads me to the second takeaway that we need to move towards Aad Nirbharta.
04:44Because in this geopolitics relations change, sometimes in times of crisis,
04:53even friends and allies would give preference to their needs.
04:58And you may not get weapons and sensors if you are dependent on somebody else.
05:03And of course the third one is that it is not only the strategy of self-reliance and Aad Nirbharta,
05:14but also the pace of self-reliance and Aad Nirbharta.
05:17And therefore we have to move fast from the technology induction,
05:22from in the drawing board to the battlefield.
05:25So these are the three broad takeaways which we take from Russia-Ukraine war,
05:31as also from the other war which is going on.
05:34Sir, given the fact that technology is changing at such a rapid pace,
05:40questions are being asked about the utility of say aircraft carriers,
05:46which used to be the pride of any blue water navy in the past.
05:49And now with the prospect of supersonic missiles, laser weapon systems, asymmetric warfare,
05:56the concern that are we using old world doctrine to build up for a new world war?
06:03And the concern that some of what would earlier have dominated the seas,
06:07are they now frankly just sitting ducks? How do you look at this?
06:11So Rahul, I would just make two statements.
06:17One is that we are all aware that the nature of warfare remains the same.
06:24And what is that? That is use of force and use of violence to prevail upon the adversary,
06:32to impose your will on him or her. So that remains even today, irrespective of whatever else is happening.
06:39But the character of warfare is changing. And it has been changing at various intervals in our history.
06:46But in the last few years, especially in 21st century, this change has accelerated largely because of technology.
06:53So there have been doubting pharmacists who have commented upon particular kind of platform,
07:02particular kind of weapon systems, whether it is still valid or not.
07:08And those are valid questions. Because people must ask.
07:13Because there is money involved and there is capability involved.
07:17We in the Indian Navy have very clear and futuristic capability development plan with us.
07:24Studying whatever else is happening around us, we have made this plan.
07:29Of course it goes through iteration at various intervals.
07:33Even now it is going through because of what we have seen in last four, five years.
07:37The use of unmanned vehicles, etc., etc. Those things have to be incorporated in our capability development plan.
07:49And we are taking actions to ensure that whatever capability we introduce, those are proven and those will be put to use when the nation demands.
08:00Let me reframe the question. When the Russia-Ukraine war started, it suddenly emerged that this idea
08:05that the Russian army could send in their tanks and dominate Ukraine came apart,
08:10especially in the face of armed drones. We haven't seen a recent big war between two modern navies.
08:18My question and concern is, if this war were to start, say whether it is in the Taiwan Straits or wherever else,
08:25will we find that the nature of naval warfare has as dramatically altered from what our military planners envision naval warfare to be?
08:34That some of the biggest ships, the most powerful ships will suddenly become sitting ducks.
08:38Are you confident, for example, that our aircraft carriers would be able to protect themselves
08:43and be as effective in the face of some of these asymmetric weapons?
08:47So that is a hypothetical question. I would also be bordering on a hypothetical answer.
08:55Please bear with me. We don't know what will happen.
08:59If the crisis which you are alluding to in Taiwan Strait, as to how it will play out in whatever time frame.
09:06But one thing is certain that nations are putting in money to develop the platforms after a lot of study.
09:17It is not just on whims and fancies of one individual or one service.
09:22It is a whole of government decision which is taken that we need to invest in different kinds of weapons, platforms, etc.
09:30And coming per se to the Navy, we are the force which operates on surface.
09:36We operate in the air. We operate underwater. And of course, add to that the cyber domain, the space.
09:43So we are a five-dimensional Navy actually. And therefore, if you have to deter, the whole thing starts with deterrence.
09:52If you have to deter an adversary so that he cannot or he should not infringe on our sovereignty
09:59or he should not do anything which is untoward, which is not accepted to us as a country,
10:04then we have to ensure that we have the deterrence capability.
10:08And those deterrence capabilities are exemplified in terms of weapons, sensors, equipment and capabilities which the Navy has got.
10:17The second, of course, is we need to deploy. And that is physical deployment of assets.
10:25And a Navy which cannot deploy cannot deter. You cannot sit in harbor and say, I have got this capability.
10:31So you have to demonstrate. You have to go out at sea. And you have to demonstrate the capability,
10:36whether it is in terms of surface warfare, undersea warfare, air warfare, space warfare.
10:43So all kinds of things you have to actually demonstrate.
10:47And in that sense, the platforms which you have named, I think they have still got a role to play.
10:56There is adequate, I would say, redundancy in terms of securing those assets.
11:05And especially in a maritime domain where assets are moving, you know, 500 miles within 24 hours.
11:11So you may be detected. Today you can be just assured the battle space is so transparent
11:16that everything and anything can be detected. It is a given.
11:20When we look at the battlefield and how it's changing, you know, there's a hostile China.
11:27And that China is trying this string of pearls that has been written about very extensively,
11:33Hambantota, you know, they're trying to get more bases in Gwadar and in Myanmar.
11:41And they're trying to bring in their underwater gliders.
11:45You know, how big a challenge is that, that if we can detect them in Malacca Straits is one strategy.
11:51But then once they come in and they have bases here, is that a huge challenge for us?
11:57So we are, like I said, as a Navy, we are monitoring what our adversaries and friends are doing in all domains.
12:12You talked about underwater gliders. We'll leave it for the time being.
12:20We have got a very good maritime domain awareness through various means.
12:26And therefore, at any point of time, we are aware that in our area of interest,
12:32which is largely the Indian Ocean region, who is doing what, where, when and how.
12:39So the first part, I think, is very well covered. We are aware that China has increased its presence.
12:47And by the way, PLA Navy is the largest Navy in terms of number today. It happened a couple of years back.
12:52It has surprised the U.S. Navy in terms of numbers. So we are fully aware that the, what Chinese Navy is doing.
12:58They have increased their presence from three ships when they started in 2008 under the guise of anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Aden.
13:07And today we find at any point of time there are six to eight capable warships which are there in various parts of IOR.
13:16Add to that various, you know, scientific research vessels. There are satellite tracking ships.
13:24There are, you know, deep sea fishing vessels, many of them with dual use information gathering missions.
13:31So all that we were fully aware. We are monitoring each ship, what he or she is doing.
13:37The problem which you are, I think, alluding is that Chinese are, come here, they're not acting alone.
13:43They are, of course, helping our western neighbor. We are not surprised. So should you be.
13:49It is, this has not happened, you know, accidentally. China has always been helping Pakistan at various levels,
13:57whether it is political, whether it is economic or military. And especially in the last two decades,
14:03in maritime domain I can talk about, it is happening in the land and air domain also.
14:07They have provided them with real capabilities in terms of three plus four, seven frigates.
14:13There is a missile tracking ship. And now, starting next year, they're going to supply them eight Yuan-class brand new submarines.
14:21So we are not surprised about that. Now, what we can do about it is what I said that that is out of our hands.
14:31What we need to do is that we find, we have to find answers to ensure that even this collusivity,
14:37if it were to happen, we should not be found wanting. We should not be surprised. And that is what we are doing.
14:45Admiral Tripathi, I ran a visualization which projects into the future the naval strength of the PLN,
14:53which is the People's Liberation Navy. The Pak Navy bases the augmentation that they're getting from
14:59across the Himalayas and where the Indian Navy would be. Because one of the big challenges is,
15:05what do we want given the vast list of requirements and the limited budgets that we have, what is most important?
15:11So, it's at the back of our screen right now. This goes back from 2023 and goes out to 2040.
15:18Basically, so that I can explain what you are seeing, if all of what is already in the public domain gets inducted into
15:25the Indian, the Pakistani and the Chinese and the US navies, where will things stand at 2040?
15:33So, basically, given the speed of induction and the announcements that have already been made,
15:39the visualization that we ran suggests that the Chinese navy could be 530 plus warships by 2040,
15:48which is bigger than the US Navy as well, which would be around 380-odd warships.
15:54And the Indian Navy, which would be around 185. Now, if they buy something new, I don't know.
15:58But from what we know and has been announced, and the Pak Navy would be around 60.
16:03Now, that is, and what we are seeing from the People's Liberation Navy is the biggest build-up in the history of maritime build-ups.
16:11They have essentially created an Indian Navy just in the last 10 years. That's the scale of the build-up that we are seeing.
16:17How concerned are you about that? Because that's a lot of force being aggregated against you.
16:23And what's your strategy to defend us? So, you are bang on target. The PLA Navy has created one Indian Navy in last decade plus.
16:32And which is not so good news for us. But there are three things, Rahul. One is numbers per se.
16:39And we don't believe in counting. Because numbers have their own advantages, disadvantages.
16:46The second is the capability. What those platforms build in weathered ships, submarines, aircrafts, etc.
16:52So, those are things which has to be analyzed. They have to be war-gamed. What capability they are bringing.
16:57And the third is the effect which they will have in actual operations. And that depends upon this very basic things called geography.
17:08What is geography of this area? It is prebondly, it is Indian Ocean. It is India jutting out.
17:15So, I would like to believe that we are blessed to have this kind of geography where in the Indian Ocean region
17:24we will always have the so-called upper hand as far as geography is concerned.
17:29Because the Chinese Navy if it has to come from wherever it is to come, there is something called, you must have read about
17:35tyranny of geography. And that cannot be circumvented by any amount of force.
17:42Because finally the platforms has to fly, platform has to sail to come into Indian Ocean region.
17:48And we have got means and measures to track them whenever they leave, wherever they are supposed to leave.
17:54So, that part is I think generally under control. Can they put everything what they have got to Indian Ocean region?
18:00We don't know. It is again a hypothesis which we can war game. But you can be just assured
18:07that we are aware of what is happening whether it is China or Pakistan. And I will just take one minute more.
18:14What you didn't ask me is that how does the, you know, what is the effectiveness of Indian Navy
18:23as far as the nation's growth is concerned. Because that is what I think navies are meant for.
18:28Navies are meant for ensuring that there is complete tranquility, peace and maritime security
18:35so that our trade, energy, our strategic influence, our connectivity remain unhindered.
18:41That is where we feel our role is. We are not so much bothered about who else is doing what.
18:47Because that is a factor of many things, intent, money, etc., etc.
18:51Let's run a simulation just for a moment. During the 1971 war, the Indian Navy to its credit
18:56was effectively able to blockade the Pakistani Navy in the Karachi Harbour.
19:00They weren't able to get out. We had them cornered. If and given that China is following a pearl of string strategy,
19:05if the Chinese Navy were to attempt something similar on the Indian Peninsula,
19:11Ribbon Peninsula, will we be able to prevent it from happening given the sheer scale of the weapon systems
19:17and the platforms that they are building? I think so. I think I am fairly sure about it.
19:23For the reasons which I mentioned. Because they will have to support.
19:27They will have to support their forces thousands of miles away from wherever they are coming from.
19:33And we have the advantage of the geography. So that part I think is not too much bothering us.
19:39As far as Pakistan is concerned, and I link it again with the kind of platforms which you mentioned,
19:44I was at sea as a commander during Parakram. I was at sea after the Pulwama attack in 2019.
19:52As fleet commander. So gap of what almost 17-18 years. And both times my personal experience tells me
20:02that just because we had a particular kind of platform at sea, that was aircraft carrier with aircraft on board.
20:10With the kind of reach which we had. No Pakistani aircraft ship which you couldn't see.
20:19We don't know about the submarine. Could come anywhere less than 300 kilometers from our force.
20:24And we were operating at sea. Why? Because there was a deterrence of an aircraft carrier
20:30which can launch its helicopters, which can launch its fixed wing aircraft and take on their maritime patrol aircraft.
20:37They can take on any ships. They remain bottled up within 50 miles, 60 miles from their bases.
20:43That is the deterrence which the platform which you mentioned.
20:47Every platform is vulnerable. As I said, in this day and age, the battle space transparency is almost complete.
20:54And therefore, everybody is vulnerable. There are means to defend that.
21:00Since Rahul mentioned numbers, when we look at the US Navy numbers, when we look at the Indian Navy numbers,
21:07and let me now take it to Quad, and Quad is a civilian grouping I know, but there's also the Malabar series.
21:14And Malabar is not a civilian grouping. Do you see a bigger role for Malabar series of exercises in the times to come?
21:23And that is again, you know, for the benefit of some of our viewers, you have India, United States, Japan, Australia,
21:29pooling in their resources to checkmate an expansionist power.
21:34You have very rightly said that Quad is a civilian thing, you know, looking at different things beyond security.
21:43Malabar is not a grouping against any particular nation. That should be very clear.
21:50It's a congregation of four partner navies to operate together, to learn from each other, learn the best practices.
22:00And if required, be able and be willing to communicate and carry out various operations,
22:07which could be in less than worse situations. It is a proven fact, everybody understands, including the largest Navy,
22:16that no Navy in the world has got the kind of resources to address the challenges of today in the maritime domain especially.
22:25Because as you are aware, 71% of the Earth's surface is, you know, water, seawater, oceans.
22:31And that is one thing which is accepted by everybody. And therefore, there is a need for us to collaborate.
22:38We need for us to engage with our partner nations. And we are doing it not only in the construct of Malabar,
22:44but there are various trilateral constructs, there are bilateral constructs.
22:48Of course, we are doing under the, you know, Honorable Prime Minister's vision of Sagar, which he had enunciated in 2015.
22:57This is the 10th year now as we speak. And we are engaging with our partner nations in the Indian Ocean region and beyond.
23:05So, Malabar is, of course, is one of the prime multilateral exercises, I would say, multilateral groupings.
23:13And we are continually and continuously learning from each other.
23:17No, because now you've got AUKUS, right? Australia, UK, the United States.
23:22Should we eye AUKUS, like should India also in some way get attached because this is largely for the Indo-Pacific region?
23:29Do you see, like we've got with the Quad, which is more strategic, more diplomatic,
23:35to build on the maritime and military dimension of AUKUS by adding an eye to it?
23:42That is, I think, a political decision, government decision.
23:45Government decision and whatever decision the government takes, that I think armed forces will follow it.
23:52May I for a moment, Admiral, take you to another threat that we face.
23:57Very recently, Taiwan caught a Chinese ship and this Chinese cargo vessel, so-called cargo vessel,
24:04was cutting undersea cables and they apprehended the staff.
24:08Is this grey zone warfare one of the biggest threats we face either through countries like China
24:14or Pakistan that used the sea route to send in terrorists, not just in 26-11,
24:19but 15 years earlier, even in 1993, to land weapons in India?
24:24So, you know, is that one of the biggest challenges that we face?
24:28I will not say that it is one of the biggest challenges, but yeah, it is a challenge.
24:33Not only grey zone warfare, there are other forms, lawfare, hybrid warfare,
24:39there are all kinds of terms which are used. But I would agree with you that it is a threat in being.
24:47And why I say that? The world's data, data which is the new oil, they say,
24:5499% of world's data transits through the undersea cables.
25:01And we, not only we, but most of the advanced countries are dependent on transfer of data.
25:08Because all the services and all the software, et cetera, when we talk about how does it go,
25:13move from one country to another, even for a common person, all of us,
25:19internet, it goes through the undersea cables. So it is, I think, Jane Stowell,
25:26who is the expert in the Google undersea cable.
25:32And it was said that people feel that data is stored in cloud.
25:40It's wrong. It is stored in the ocean. So that is the importance.
25:46And that is what I think that you must have read various articles.
25:49There is a realization in the government of India that we need to address this challenge.
25:55It has not only happened in Taiwan state, it has happened elsewhere as well.
25:59And therefore we need to have the capability, first of all, that if something of this nature were to happen,
26:06how quickly we can repair. And that is, efforts are on in that domain.
26:11So how is artificial intelligence changing the way the Navy operates, prepares for war and engages?
26:17And what are you doing?
26:19It's not only artificial intelligence. Of course we are using artificial intelligence
26:23for decision making, supporting support systems. We are making for our predictive maintenance.
26:30We are utilizing it for, you know, campaign planning.
26:36And in all facets, we have set up, you know, lab, AI lab within the Navy.
26:44We are learning from the industry. In fact, many of the technologies today,
26:49not only the AI, but many technologies today are actually commercial.
26:53And military is imbibing them. Many years ago, it used to be, military used to be
27:00in the forefront of developing new technologies and then it used to go to the commercial world.
27:04But it is a good mix. We are happy with it. Starlink is one example.
27:09You know, it's totally commercial. And it has helped whatever it has done in the Russia-Ukraine war.
27:15For your information, there is a firm called Palantir, which is a data firm.
27:20Data firm. It was assessed as the most valuable defense contractor last year.
27:27And value, you are aware, it was some 174 billion or something.
27:32So, that is the kind of technology which is being developed by the military and the commercial world.
27:40So, there is a lot of cooperation between the Department of Defense and Silicon Valley.
27:45Department of Defense is actively incubating a lot of start-ups in Silicon Valley.
27:49Humare yahan yeh sab itna nahi hota hai? No, no. We are doing, I think, we are doing all three
27:54arms of the forces and the MOD, DOD. I think we are in the forefront.
28:00Certainly, we are going out to the industry. We are hand-holding them.
28:06There are N number of schemes, whether IDEX, Aditi Challenge, etc., etc., which are there in the policy level.
28:11But talking of the Navy itself, I can tell you that we formed something called as Navy's Innovation and Indigenization Organization a few years back.
28:22And there is an arm of that, which is Technology Development and Acceleration Cell, which has gone to the industry.
28:30And I will be happy to tell you that we have indigenized almost 50,000 items.
28:34Apart from that, we realize that there are a lot of start-ups, young people who really want to do something and they have got the wherewithal.
28:41But they have no knowledge about the processes and procedures.
28:45So, last year, we commissioned two task forces, special task forces, each headed by a rare admiral rank,
28:52whose job is to proactively engage with the industry, whether it is DPSUs, PSUs, start-ups, or, you know, private industry, MSMEs,
29:02and then hand-hold them and tell them exactly that if you have this technology, this is what is our requirement, can you do this in this time frame?
29:11So, it is a work in progress. Ad nirvarta per se, and self-reliance, and this infusion of niche and disruptive technologies,
29:20like I said, is a work in progress. There are miles to go.
29:25And we are preparing to travel that arduous mile till we come to fruition.
29:33Admiral Tripathi, in the contest at the Geostrategic High Table against China,
29:40it is the maritime domain which is at the forefront and at the bleeding edge of what the nature of this battle looks like.
29:48So, having a strong, effective, potent Blue Water Navy is a national asset.
29:54And we wish you all the best for being so candid in your responses and for taking our time and joining us.
29:59Thank you very much.
30:01Thank you. Thank you very much, gentlemen. It is a pleasure.