Dateline Nbc 2025 S02 E14
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00:00:00Tonight, on Dateline . . . .
00:00:03So many people still think about them. How I wish I could tell them, I miss you so much.
00:00:11Whoever has my children, please bring them home.
00:00:15. . . . it was the story that broke America's heart.
00:00:18She said a man forced her out of the car and sped off with the children.
00:00:22Susan is distraught. She's crying.
00:00:25The tears seem genuine.
00:00:26I believe every word is coming out of her mouth.
00:00:28Then, the news no one could believe.
00:00:31Susan Smith has been arrested.
00:00:33Some of our agents were just sobbing when the car was pulled out of the water.
00:00:37Now, Susan Smith breaks decades of silence. Should she be released?
00:00:43Susan doesn't pose a danger to society.
00:00:46She lied and manipulated everybody.
00:00:49I can't let her out.
00:00:50You don't believe that Susan Smith is remotely remorseful?
00:00:53Right.
00:00:53A powerful new interview with a father whose loss still aches.
00:00:58You're not going to make me bitter. You're not going to make me mad at the world.
00:01:03You're not going to win.
00:01:05A mother's unthinkable crime. A father's unforgettable courage.
00:01:10The case of Susan Smith.
00:01:12Tonight, a revealing new look.
00:01:15I'm Lester Holt, and this is Dateline.
00:01:24Here's Craig Melvin with Return to the Lake.
00:01:36A manhunt is spreading across this country for a man who pulled a carjacking Tuesday night.
00:01:44A mother's nightmare came true in South Carolina.
00:01:47Tips continue to come in, but there's no sign of the 14-month and 3-year-old brothers.
00:01:53Tonight, the tragedy that gripped a nation 30 years ago and still won't let go.
00:02:01Why do you think people still care so much?
00:02:04Because we all united with the hope that we would find those little boys.
00:02:10Two brothers missing for nine agonizing days.
00:02:13A nationwide manhunt with a heartbreaking end.
00:02:19And the mother at the center of it all, speaking out for the first time in decades.
00:02:28While the father continues his fight for justice.
00:02:32Would you have been better off had the state executed her?
00:02:35Wow.
00:02:37For myself, yes.
00:02:40Because I wouldn't have to be dealing with what's coming up now and in the future.
00:02:49The Manhunt
00:02:56It all started in the tiny town of Union, South Carolina.
00:03:02A rural community, textiles and farming were the big businesses there.
00:03:06It had just a few traffic lights.
00:03:09Church-going neighbors would wave on their morning walks.
00:03:13The people here are friendly.
00:03:15Harold Thompson grew up in Union and is now the mayor.
00:03:19They're willing to help in any type of situation, you know.
00:03:23We got a lot of volunteers. People get along with each other.
00:03:26No big problems or issues.
00:03:30But that all changed the night of October 25th, 1994.
00:03:36Around 9 p.m., a young woman banged frantically on the door of this house.
00:03:41Homeowner Shirley McLeod answered.
00:03:44She just wasn't physically able to hardly stand up.
00:03:48And took her to the couch and asked her to tell me again what she said.
00:03:52And she said, he's taking my children. He's got my children.
00:03:56Shirley's son immediately called 911.
00:04:09The woman at the door was Susan Smith.
00:04:12A shy, quiet 23-year-old brunette who worked as a secretary at a local textile company.
00:04:19Tiffany Moss knew her from school.
00:04:21What was she like in high school?
00:04:24She was just, you know, nothing extra popular or anything like that.
00:04:29But, you know, she was just a friendly high school girl.
00:04:33Susan and her husband David lived in union and had two little boys.
00:04:38Michael, three, and Alex, 14 months.
00:04:42They were just your typical little boy, toddler.
00:04:47You know, precious, playful, sweet.
00:04:53But now, they were missing.
00:04:56Sheriff Howard Wells raced to the scene.
00:04:59And when I walked in, Susan was seated on the sofa there in the living room.
00:05:04He talked to Dateline in 1995.
00:05:07I knew time was of the essence.
00:05:09And so we went right directly into the informational stage of trying to find out what had happened.
00:05:16Susan told him she was driving with her boys that night to visit a friend named Mitch Sinclair.
00:05:21And stopped at a red light.
00:05:23She said that's when a black man suddenly accosted her with a gun.
00:05:27After giving her statement, Susan called her husband David.
00:05:32What do you remember about that?
00:05:33I remember it was around 9 o'clock.
00:05:37And Sheriff Wells said that your children have been taken.
00:05:41And we're at the McLeod residence.
00:05:45You need to get here.
00:05:47And when you get there, what do you find?
00:05:49Susan is in the living room.
00:05:53And when I walk in, she's just distraught.
00:05:58She's crying.
00:05:59What was she saying about what happened?
00:06:00That I was at a red light.
00:06:02And that a black man jumped in the car.
00:06:05Made me drive.
00:06:06And then forced me out of the car.
00:06:08And drove off with them and still in the car.
00:06:11The sheriff put out an APB.
00:06:13While David and Susan went on camera to appeal for help.
00:06:18I was stopped at a red light.
00:06:19And just out of nowhere, this black guy came up.
00:06:23And just opened the door and jumped in the car.
00:06:25And he had a gun.
00:06:26And he had it pointed at my side and told me to drive.
00:06:31And so I did.
00:06:33And when I tried to ask him why he was doing this or whatever.
00:06:36He just told me to shut up or he'd kill me.
00:06:38So I just kept driving and driving.
00:06:41My babies were in the backseat and they were crying.
00:06:44And I tried to tell them everything was going to be okay.
00:06:47She said she drove a few miles until the man told her to stop.
00:06:52He told me to get out.
00:06:54And I said, well, can I get my children?
00:06:56And he said no.
00:06:57He said, I don't have time for that.
00:07:01And they were just crying.
00:07:04Do you want to make a plea if anybody sees this story or this person?
00:07:09Yes, if anybody sees anything that looks unusual.
00:07:13I mean, this is a black guy with two white children.
00:07:15And obviously they're not his.
00:07:18Do you want to make a plea as well?
00:07:20Just if anybody sees anything whatsoever,
00:07:23please contact your local police department
00:07:26and inform them of anything that looks unusual, please.
00:07:30For Sheriff Wells, it was an all-hands-on-deck moment.
00:07:33He sprang into action, ordering his deputies to hunt down the carjacker
00:07:38and find Michael and Alex.
00:07:40We are hoping that he's going to be as good as his word,
00:07:43that he will not harm the children since he did not harm her.
00:07:48But what police hoped would be a quick search
00:07:51stretched into nine days that captivated the country.
00:07:56We'll take you inside the investigation with newly unearthed audio tapes.
00:08:01How do you feel today about it?
00:08:03Well, I feel better now that that came out.
00:08:06But it still worries me about if I don't know about it.
00:08:10Revealing jailhouse letters and exclusive interviews.
00:08:14I used to sit there and look at the back of her head
00:08:17and think about killing her.
00:08:19You wanted her dead?
00:08:20I did.
00:08:23All from those nine fateful days
00:08:26and the unspeakable crime that left everyone asking one question.
00:08:32Why?
00:08:33Why on earth?
00:08:34It was intense for those nine days, but then it went thermonuclear.
00:08:41In the early morning hours of October 26th,
00:08:44deputies scoured South Carolina searching for a kidnapper.
00:08:49Said it was a black male driving a burgundy protege.
00:08:53Affirmative.
00:08:54He had two juveniles with him.
00:08:57From what I understood, these were small children.
00:09:00Sheriff Wells asked the deputies to search the house
00:09:03to see if they could find the kidnapper.
00:09:06From what I understood, these were small children.
00:09:09Sheriff Wells asked Susan for a more detailed description,
00:09:13and she was happy to comply.
00:09:16She came in between 3 and 4 in the morning,
00:09:18met with a composite artist on day one.
00:09:21Susan described a tall black man, 30 to 40 years old,
00:09:25wearing a knit hat.
00:09:27The sketch, it was disseminated widely throughout the state.
00:09:31Jeff Bailey is the current sheriff of Union.
00:09:34Back then, he was a young deputy just starting out.
00:09:37And we were looking through files and probation pro,
00:09:40who had a criminal history of child molestation
00:09:43or, you know, crimes against children,
00:09:45and we were trying to put that face together with pictures that we had.
00:09:49I was six months into my second job.
00:09:52As daylight broke, reporter Heather Hoops Matthews
00:09:55drove in to work at WIS-TV,
00:09:58the NBC affiliate in Columbia, South Carolina.
00:10:01How did you actually hear about the case initially?
00:10:04I walked into the newsroom in the morning,
00:10:06and the assignment desk said,
00:10:08we hear there are two children missing in Union.
00:10:12Grab a photographer and go.
00:10:14What are you hearing? What are folks saying?
00:10:16At that time, I remember thinking how shocking that was.
00:10:20You know, that's terrible. Surely we're going to find the kids.
00:10:24As Heather and the other local reporters began digging around Union,
00:10:28they started to learn a lot more about Susan and David Smith.
00:10:33What were your impressions of them initially?
00:10:36I thought that he was very loving to her.
00:10:38I saw him put his arm around her,
00:10:40and I just remember thinking how nice that was.
00:10:44Both Susan and David had grown up in Union
00:10:47in modest, church-going families.
00:10:50How did you meet?
00:10:51We were both working at a local grocery store.
00:10:53Winn-Dixie?
00:10:54Yes, Winn-Dixie.
00:10:55And then we just got to talking like teenagers do.
00:10:59Small talk soon led to dating,
00:11:02and the young couple married in 1991.
00:11:05Susan was 19.
00:11:07David was 20.
00:11:09And then Michael was born,
00:11:11and I was head over heels.
00:11:15My first son.
00:11:17Then came little Alex.
00:11:20Tell me about Michael. Tell me about Alex.
00:11:22Michael was the more sensitive one.
00:11:25His feelings were getting hurt easy when you scolded him.
00:11:29He was very protective of Alex at the daycare.
00:11:32Even at home, Alex was more rambunctious, more mischievous.
00:11:39Susan later left her job at Winn-Dixie
00:11:41and got a position as a secretary to the CEO of a major textile company in town.
00:11:47David says she was an attentive mom.
00:11:50She always made sure they were well-dressed.
00:11:53Whoever was taking care of them while we were at work,
00:11:56she made sure they were in good hands.
00:11:58But not long after Alex was born,
00:12:01David and Susan's marriage started to fall apart.
00:12:05I was a lousy husband.
00:12:07You know, there was infidelity.
00:12:09But there was, you know, infidelity on her part, too, after mine, but...
00:12:14You were both cheating on each other.
00:12:15Right.
00:12:16Yeah.
00:12:17The couple separated in the spring of 1994.
00:12:20By the next fall, David had a new girlfriend, Tiffany.
00:12:25Yes, the same Tiffany who knew Susan in high school.
00:12:29We met after my first year of college when I started working at Winn-Dixie.
00:12:35And he was an assistant manager there.
00:12:37What drew you two to each other?
00:12:40I just remember the day that I started when I walked in the door
00:12:43and I saw him stocking shelves.
00:12:45And I was like, hmm.
00:12:48Susan had started dating someone else, too, Tom Finley,
00:12:52a co-worker at that textile company.
00:12:55But with the boys missing, David knew he had to be there
00:12:59to support his wife any way he could.
00:13:02I just want to hug him and tell him I love him.
00:13:07As Susan and David got their message out to the media,
00:13:10deputies and volunteers widened their search to the woods surrounding Union
00:13:15with bloodhounds on the ground and helicopters in the air.
00:13:19Everybody in the state of South Carolina knew about it as soon as it happened.
00:13:23Mark Keel is now the chief of the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division,
00:13:28known as SLED.
00:13:29But in 1994, he was attending law school and working as a pilot,
00:13:34so he joined the search team.
00:13:37And we were up flying the next morning and looking for that,
00:13:40searching for that vehicle.
00:13:41You're flying around South Carolina.
00:13:43What are you guys looking for?
00:13:44Where are you looking?
00:13:45We started from where she was carjacked,
00:13:48and we were flying every route that you can imagine.
00:13:51The manpower is overwhelming.
00:13:53Reporter Heather Hoopes-Matthews began following along with the search teams.
00:13:58My videographer flew in a helicopter with them as they flew over Long Lake,
00:14:03and I stayed down on the boat ramp.
00:14:05What were your folks at law enforcement saying initially to you?
00:14:10They said they were searching that area because it was close to where she called for help,
00:14:16knocked on the door.
00:14:18As the search expanded, so did the media coverage.
00:14:22What happens to that small town?
00:14:24It was a multiplying effect.
00:14:27First, there were six journalists.
00:14:29Then there were 12.
00:14:30Then there were 24.
00:14:31Then it felt like there were 250.
00:14:33The streets were lined with satellite trucks.
00:14:36A carjacker with a gun took her car, and with it, her two small children.
00:14:42The gunman did not harm them or ask for money.
00:14:45Soon, it will be 24 hours since they last saw their mother.
00:14:49Union was now in a hot media spotlight, but still with no sign of those little boys.
00:14:55With time slipping away, police released a new bit of video to jumpstart their investigation.
00:15:01Would it work?
00:15:18October 28, 1994, a Friday.
00:15:22Michael and Alex Smith had been missing for three days.
00:15:25The family released this video of Susan with the boys celebrating Alex's first birthday.
00:15:33What did that do for the story?
00:15:35I think the release of the images of Michael and Alex swiftly added to the interest in the story.
00:15:43And I remember watching it in the satellite truck over and over and over
00:15:48and thinking, surely, we're going to find Michael and Alex.
00:15:52What started as a small-town carjacking is now a massive search,
00:15:56first spreading into four surrounding states, now nationwide.
00:16:01Police are receiving calls from all over, one tip every minute.
00:16:05It hurts all the way to the heart.
00:16:07And I'm a grandmother, and I said, what if that was my children?
00:16:10What if that was my grandbabies?
00:16:12Everyone in the community came to look for Michael and Alex.
00:16:16People were on horseback looking for them,
00:16:20and there were people just looking everywhere trying to help to find these kids.
00:16:25While David stood by Susan, his new girlfriend Tiffany joined the search.
00:16:31What do you remember about that eight- or nine-day period?
00:16:34Just looking everywhere I went, looking for her car,
00:16:40looking for this composite drawing of this black man, looking for Michael and Alex.
00:16:47I mean, that was all I was doing.
00:16:49Of course, then I started having to hide out myself, too,
00:16:51because there were certain media that were coming after me and harassing me.
00:16:56Why were they harassing you?
00:16:58Because they had found out that I was the girlfriend,
00:17:03and so they started wanting to talk to me and see what I had to say.
00:17:10Meanwhile, police blasted that sketch of the suspect everywhere.
00:17:15After the sketch was drawn and it was distributed,
00:17:19the black people of our community were our greatest asset.
00:17:22They came forward and told us who they thought that looked like.
00:17:26One officer went to the home of a man who resembled the suspect.
00:17:30We asked him where he was during this time, but it's so easy to check out.
00:17:34We checked it, and he was where he said he was.
00:17:37A big disappointment for investigators, but the tips kept pouring in.
00:17:43A robbery in a nearby state.
00:17:45A man fitting the description of the carjacker
00:17:47has been spotted 100 miles north of Union in Salisbury, North Carolina.
00:17:52A sighting in a national park.
00:17:55Someone gave a report of a child crying in a national forest in North Carolina.
00:17:59That was going on at the same time.
00:18:02And a man seen running just miles from where the boys disappeared.
00:18:06Anything to give us a clue.
00:18:09All of them turned up nothing.
00:18:11How low could you get in those choppers?
00:18:13You can get as low as you want to get.
00:18:16We were generally flying, you know, 300 foot above ground, up to 1,000.
00:18:21Were there moments where you did spot something?
00:18:23Where you did see something?
00:18:24No, I mean, we spotted cars that, you know, were the same color
00:18:28and, you know, that were similar, but not what we were looking for.
00:18:32As they continued to pursue more than 700 tips,
00:18:36police developed other theories about the case.
00:18:39Could someone who knew Susan be behind the kidnapping?
00:18:43They questioned friends and co-workers,
00:18:45including that new boyfriend of hers, Tom Finley.
00:18:50Family members, too.
00:18:52You start finding out an abduction case, a high percentage are family abductions.
00:18:57You have to look at family to find out what is the motivation here,
00:19:01why or who would have been behind it.
00:19:04Investigators wondered whether Susan and David's pending divorce might have played a role.
00:19:09We had to look at all the possibilities of who may have been involved,
00:19:12of whom it would have benefited for abduction.
00:19:16Including David Smith.
00:19:19Susan had custody of Michael and Alex.
00:19:22Could David or someone else have conspired to have the boys kidnapped?
00:19:27Everyone was a suspect in this case until we could narrow it to a single individual or whatever,
00:19:33anyone who may have had a motive, anyone who may have had contact with Susan,
00:19:38who may have been a participant or whatever.
00:19:42Sure, we looked at everybody.
00:19:44Investigators gave David a polygraph test, which he passed.
00:19:49What did the sheriff, what did those investigators tell you privately about their theories,
00:19:56what they thought may have happened?
00:19:59I don't remember them really talking to me a whole lot after I took the polygraph
00:20:03and obviously passed, as they said, with flying colors.
00:20:07Then suddenly, a new tip from 3,000 miles away, and this one sounded different.
00:20:13We're working on some very promising, exciting information right now,
00:20:16and that's all I'm going to be able to say to you.
00:20:30Day six in the search for Michael and Alex Smith was Halloween, warm and sunny.
00:20:38But fear hung in the air in Union as parents and kids headed out to trick-or-treat.
00:20:44They have a tradition of trick-or-treating in the downtown.
00:20:47Michael Cogdell was a reporter for WYFF, the NBC affiliate in Greenville, South Carolina.
00:20:54That Halloween, people were hanging on to one another and one another's kids.
00:20:58They thought there might be a threat afoot.
00:21:00I think everybody should stay close to their kids, keep an eye on them.
00:21:05Alongside the fear, he saw something he didn't expect.
00:21:10One of the things we noticed, this is a woman who has fingered a black man for this crime,
00:21:16and you would have thought it would have torn that town apart.
00:21:19Instead, it brought people together.
00:21:21There was such love, blacks and whites, arm in arm, hand in hand, holding on to each other's kids.
00:21:26On the one-week anniversary, Sheriff Wells had nothing new to report.
00:21:31Well, we've looked at any possible motivation for this case, and we have not developed anything concrete.
00:21:36What do you remember most about that period of time?
00:21:41The media. It was out of control.
00:21:45Circus.
00:21:46They were camped out at her parents' house where we were staying.
00:21:48They were camped out at the courthouse.
00:21:51They would try to follow us.
00:21:54I grew up in South Carolina and remember the extensive media coverage and the endless waiting.
00:22:01I was a teenager, and I, like millions of other folks, for days on end, glued to the television,
00:22:11trying to figure out what happened to these little boys.
00:22:14For you, day in, day out, the rollercoaster of emotions, how did you grapple with it?
00:22:24I just got up every day and did whatever somebody told me to do.
00:22:31If it was to go for an interview, if it was to take a polygraph.
00:22:36He cooperated, hoping law enforcement would stop looking at him and find the carjacker.
00:22:42I guess I was trying to get more boots on the ground, as you say.
00:22:47The national search for Michael and Alex continued,
00:22:50while local investigators worked their way down the list of Susan's family and friends.
00:22:55They focused on her relationship with Mitchell Sinclair,
00:22:59the man she said she was going to visit on the night of the carjacking.
00:23:03Sheriff Wells was especially interested in Sinclair
00:23:06after seeing an interview he did with a reporter for Current Affair.
00:23:10The truth is going to come out.
00:23:13What is the truth? Tell everybody what the truth is.
00:23:25Exactly what the sheriff says it is.
00:23:29Police questioned him several times.
00:23:32Turned out, he wasn't even home that night.
00:23:35Sheriff, has Mitch Sinclair now been eliminated as a suspect in the investigation?
00:23:40I'm not going to say he is any more or any less than he ever has been
00:23:44because we still do not have the information we need in this case.
00:23:47Investigators were also taking a close look at Susan as a mom
00:23:52and heard nothing but good things.
00:23:55They never saw those children dirty.
00:23:57They never saw her spank her children.
00:24:01We never found one detrimental remark towards Susan about those children.
00:24:06Then on the 8th day, a true glimmer of hope.
00:24:10At 3.30 a.m., a call came into the command center.
00:24:13A sighting of a young boy who matched the description of 14-month-old Alex
00:24:18riding in a car with South Carolina plates.
00:24:21He'd been dropped off at a motel in Washington state.
00:24:25It's a solid lead right now.
00:24:27Turns out, if we believe we need it, it might give us the direction we need in this case.
00:24:31Sheriff Wells appeared elated.
00:24:33We're working on some very promising, exciting information right now,
00:24:36and that's all I'm going to be able to say to her.
00:24:39Susan and David rushed to the command center.
00:24:41Three hours passed.
00:24:43The town of Union held its breath.
00:24:46Then Sheriff Wells addressed the press once again.
00:24:50Our hearts soared for a while that we were close to recovering the children in this case.
00:24:55That did not happen.
00:24:58The news was crushing.
00:25:00The little boy abandoned in Washington state was not Alex Smith after all.
00:25:05It's very hard once you get your hopes up to come back and then see them die.
00:25:10Soon after, what everyone hoped would be a joyous appearance by Susan and David
00:25:16became yet another anguished plea.
00:25:19I would like to say to whoever has my children
00:25:26that they please, I mean please bring them home.
00:25:30I would like to take the time to plead to the American public
00:25:35that you please do not give up on these two little boys.
00:25:40But almost as soon as Susan and David finished their nationally televised plea,
00:25:45the story took another turn.
00:25:48That night, Dateline got a tip that crime lab technicians were headed to Susan's home.
00:25:54Our cameras captured law enforcement going into the house.
00:25:58They took photographs, examined paperwork,
00:26:01dusted apparently for fingerprints,
00:26:04and went into the crawl space underneath the home.
00:26:07Can you tell us what you're doing?
00:26:11The search ended about two hours later with investigators
00:26:14carrying several paper bags out of the house.
00:26:17To outsiders, it didn't look like investigators were any closer to answering the painful question,
00:26:24where were Michael and Alex?
00:26:27But for insiders, the investigation was becoming laser focused on the only witness in the case,
00:26:34the woman at its center, Susan Smith herself.
00:26:48For more than a week, the public saw a heartbreaking scene,
00:26:58two young parents pleading for their children's safe return.
00:27:02I want to say to my babies that your mama loves you so much.
00:27:08But at the command center, Sheriff Wells had been verifying Susan's story,
00:27:13and not everything checked out.
00:27:16There were questions about the traffic light.
00:27:18She said she was stopped at a red light at an intersection in Monarch,
00:27:22and there were no other cars around.
00:27:24Information from the Department of Public Safety had landed on Sheriff Wells' desk.
00:27:29He learned there was no way that light could have turned red.
00:27:34That cannot be. A car has to be at the opposing light in the intersection to make the light change.
00:27:40Without another car, the light would stay green.
00:27:44The sheriff tried to keep his doubts about Susan's story under wraps,
00:27:47but other officers were coming to the same conclusion.
00:27:51What do you recall about how members of law enforcement were talking about the case?
00:27:58There was a lot of suspicion, I would say, as to what happened,
00:28:03especially after days that we had searched and looked.
00:28:06Chief Keel, who'd been searching for clues by helicopter, says too much of it didn't make sense.
00:28:13Carjackings take place often, but generally you end up finding the vehicle.
00:28:18So as days went by and we didn't find anything, the suspicion continued to grow.
00:28:24While retracing the steps Susan said she made that night,
00:28:28investigators discovered something astonishing.
00:28:31That night, you were actually having her followed?
00:28:35Yes.
00:28:36Why?
00:28:37Because I knew she was running around on me too.
00:28:40You have your girlfriend at the time following your soon-to-be ex-wife?
00:28:45Right.
00:28:46The night that your boys go missing?
00:28:49Yes.
00:28:50So we were wanting to try and catch her so he could counter-sue,
00:28:54and so I had put on my PI gear, my ball hat and everything,
00:28:59and sat in the car watching when she left work
00:29:02and had watched her when she went and picked the boys up from daycare.
00:29:06Tiffany continued to follow her.
00:29:09She saw Susan make several stops with the boys in the car.
00:29:14Then a little bit later she had went home,
00:29:16and then I saw the boys, they were getting down out of the backseat,
00:29:20and she had Alex on her hip.
00:29:22Tiffany then went to visit a friend nearby,
00:29:25and when she came back 45 minutes later, Susan's car was gone.
00:29:31So I had kind of, you know, give up my PI search at that point.
00:29:36Investigators couldn't find any witnesses who saw where Susan went that night.
00:29:41They were becoming more and more convinced she was hiding something.
00:29:45So they brought in SLED agent Peter Logan, a polygraph expert, to meet with Susan.
00:29:52We interviewed him back in 2000.
00:29:54Susan Smith showed up with her family, and I introduced myself to her.
00:30:00Agent Logan quickly built a rapport with Susan
00:30:03and asked her if she would agree to a polygraph test.
00:30:06She said yes.
00:30:08Then there comes a point where Susan says to you
00:30:11that she thought that she was probably a suspect.
00:30:15When she said that to you, what did you think?
00:30:17I said, don't worry about it.
00:30:20I told her not to worry about it.
00:30:21I was trying to, like, help her pass polygraph tests.
00:30:25I was telling her, like, to think about a field of daisies,
00:30:29to calm her down to pass the polygraph, because I wanted us to get past that.
00:30:36When she first sat down with Agent Logan, he took it slowly.
00:30:41I realized that if Susan Smith didn't talk about this,
00:30:45that we may never know what really happened.
00:30:48So my first polygraph that I did was to determine at that time
00:30:51whether or not the carjacking was truthful.
00:30:56He didn't tell her the results.
00:30:58Instead, he said she'd done enough for the day and sent her home.
00:31:02But it didn't take long before rumors that Susan failed a polygraph
00:31:07circulated through the small town of Union.
00:31:10When you had heard that she had failed one of those polygraph tests,
00:31:12what did you chalk that up to?
00:31:14I didn't put a lot of weight into it,
00:31:16because to me, she had just had her children,
00:31:19our children ripped away from her, snatched from her.
00:31:23How in the world would she be able to pass the polygraph?
00:31:27Susan was supposed to come back the next day to continue the polygraph,
00:31:31but that didn't happen.
00:31:33She didn't want to come in for the interview, so I phoned her at home.
00:31:38Agent Logan shared with Dateline this newly unearthed tape of that call.
00:31:43Hello, Susan?
00:31:44Hi, Pete.
00:31:45Hey, how you doing? You doing okay?
00:31:47I'm hanging in there.
00:31:48Well, that's good. I'm concerned about you and just wanted to know how you were doing.
00:31:53Then he brought up a rumor he'd heard that Susan told her mom she'd failed a polygraph.
00:31:59He tried to reassure her, saying the results were inconclusive.
00:32:04You know, I don't want you to misunderstand anything or anything like that.
00:32:07Yeah.
00:32:08So...
00:32:09Well, it does worry me.
00:32:10Yeah.
00:32:11I'm trying not to think about it.
00:32:14Yeah, well, you know what the bottom line is, and we talked,
00:32:16is sensitivity, every mom who's missing her kids has got sensitivity.
00:32:20He asked her to write down everything she could remember from that night.
00:32:24She agreed and said she'd meet with him again the next day.
00:32:27I enjoy talking to you, and hopefully you get some little help out of it.
00:32:31Oh, I do.
00:32:32Okay.
00:32:33I walked out feeling a lot better than I did when I walked in.
00:32:35Yeah, well, that's good. That's sort of the bottom line.
00:32:37Yeah.
00:32:39When Susan returned the next morning to continue a polygraph,
00:32:42Agent Logan gently explained that part of her story did not make sense,
00:32:48that the light would not have turned red.
00:32:51I said, is there some reason that you have not been truthful about this light
00:32:56and it happened somewhere else, it could have happened somewhere else?
00:32:58She initially denied it.
00:33:00But then she said the agent was right.
00:33:03The carjacking had happened somewhere else, 15 miles away, in a town called Carlisle.
00:33:09I said, well, let's go to Carlisle.
00:33:12So I got her out in the car and I took her in a sled car.
00:33:16I said, now you tell me exactly where you were when the carjacker came out and got in your car.
00:33:20And she had some hesitancy in actually picking out the exact location, but she did.
00:33:27He asked her why she didn't say it happened in Carlisle from the beginning.
00:33:31Her explanation at that time was that, well, I knew I shouldn't have been in Carlisle,
00:33:36that people would question me, why was I in Carlisle riding around?
00:33:40She told him that when she was 18, she had an affair with a married man who used to live in Carlisle.
00:33:46She said we used to park in the woods down in this area and that's what she went back.
00:33:51By the time Susan and the agent left Carlisle, it had grown dark.
00:33:55So he told her to go home and write down exactly what happened at this new location.
00:34:02I knew at that time in my heart that she would probably tell us the truth, but I wasn't sure under what circumstances.
00:34:09She trusted me. I thought at the time she trusted Sheriff Wells.
00:34:14So Agent Logan alerted Sheriff Wells that Susan had changed her story.
00:34:19Then they put their heads together and came up with a plan for the next day.
00:34:24A carefully orchestrated dance that would lead to an unimaginable admission.
00:34:30There was a shockwave. It's like the place was struck by lightning.
00:34:34November 3rd, 1994. For nine days, Americans had been glued to their TVs, hoping for the safe return of two young boys.
00:34:44It's been real difficult.
00:34:46That morning, Susan and David Smith, who had just been released from the hospital,
00:34:51decided to go back to their home town of Carlisle.
00:34:55Hoping for the safe return of two young boys.
00:34:59It's been real difficult.
00:35:01That morning, Susan and David Smith appeared on the Today Show.
00:35:05I think what's kept me going more than anything is the Lord.
00:35:09The public had no idea Susan had changed her story, but it was clear feelings toward her were shifting.
00:35:17Katie Couric asked about the police search of her home the night before.
00:35:22Were you there at the time, and do you know what they were looking for?
00:35:26No, ma'am, I was not there, and I do not know.
00:35:31I did agree to sign a form for them to do that. I was aware they were going to do that.
00:35:36How do you all feel when you hear that some members of the public think that you might have been involved?
00:35:43Well, my first reaction is that it hurts to know that I would be accused
00:35:51or even thought that I would ever do anything to harm my children.
00:35:55David spoke directly to his boys.
00:35:58Me and Mommy believe that you guys are okay and that you will be coming home soon.
00:36:05We're not going to give up until we find you.
00:36:09Just hours after that interview, Susan handed Agent Pete Logan a written statement of her new version of the carjacking.
00:36:17Logan recorded their interview that day.
00:36:20How do you feel today about that it didn't happen there, but it happened somewhere?
00:36:24How do you feel about how you're feeling today?
00:36:27Well, I feel bad now that that came out, but it worries me about everybody else coming out about it.
00:36:35Agent Logan says he could tell she was getting tired.
00:36:38It was time to set in motion the plan he and Sheriff Wells had worked out.
00:36:42He asked the sheriff to come into the interview room and explain that Susan had changed her story,
00:36:49pretending the sheriff didn't already know.
00:36:52And so we sat in there for maybe a couple minutes and discussed it.
00:36:56And then I left under the pretext of somebody beeping me with the idea that the sheriff would talk to her to see how he made out.
00:37:04Susan repeated her new story that the carjacking actually happened in Carlisle.
00:37:10That gave Sheriff Wells an opportunity to pounce.
00:37:14I told her that we had that intersection under surveillance,
00:37:17that it was a suspected drug drop site and that it could not have happened there, as she said.
00:37:23This was a bluff. There was no surveillance.
00:37:26And she says, why do you say that? And I told her, I said, there's no way because we would have seen it.
00:37:33With that, Susan Smith completely lost it.
00:37:37She broke down and started sobbing. She cried. She said she was so ashamed.
00:37:41And then she asked for my gun.
00:37:43And I said, why would you want to do that? And she wanted to kill herself.
00:37:47And I said, but why? And she said, you don't understand. My children are not all right.
00:37:53That was the first incriminating statement that she had made.
00:37:57After nine days of intense investigation, hundreds of tips and a search that consumed the country,
00:38:04Susan Smith finally told the truth.
00:38:08She'd killed her two young boys.
00:38:11When I walked back in, Susan was on her knees and crying hysterically with her head in the chair.
00:38:18And the sheriff had told me that she had admitted that she had let the car go in the lake with her kids in the backseat.
00:38:26They gave her a pen and paper and she wrote down her confession.
00:38:31I dropped to the lowest when I allowed my children to go down that ramp into the water without me.
00:38:39She told the sheriff where to look for her car.
00:38:43A few hours later, divers found it at the bottom of John D.
00:38:47Long Lake, two small bodies strapped in car seats in the back.
00:38:52Sheriff Wells alerted the press.
00:38:55Susan Smith has been arrested and will be charged with two counts of murder in connection with the deaths of her children, Michael three and Alexander, 14 months.
00:39:08There was a shockwave. It's like the place was struck by lightning.
00:39:12Thunder went over that crowd. Shock.
00:39:14How did you find out that she had confessed when Sheriff Wells announced it to the public?
00:39:20That's the way I found out.
00:39:21Did you think initially maybe this was some sort of mistake?
00:39:25Obviously they've got the wrong person.
00:39:27No.
00:39:29So my thoughts were just what are they?
00:39:32What is he talking about?
00:39:33I didn't think it was a mistake.
00:39:35I don't think it was correct.
00:39:36I was just like, what is he talking about?
00:39:38You couldn't even get your head around it.
00:39:41No.
00:39:42The question of what happened to the boys had been answered.
00:39:46But why it happened would take years to untangle.
00:39:51A highly emotional trial would rivet the nation and have neighbors taking sides.
00:39:57What were people saying leading up to the trial?
00:39:59You know, there was the question of do you think she should die for killing them?
00:40:03Family secrets would spill out, setting the stage for an emotional showdown.
00:40:09You don't kill your children for what happened to you.
00:40:13I wanted an eye for an eye.
00:40:15What I did was so horrible.
00:40:20The American Pronunciation Guide Presents
00:40:21A Trial of the Heart
00:40:33It was a heartbreaking end to an already tragic story.
00:40:38The vehicle, a 1990 Mazda, driven by Smith, was located late Thursday afternoon
00:40:45in Lake John D. Long near Union.
00:40:49Two bodies were found in the vehicle's back seat.
00:40:53I remember Willard Scott crying on the Today Show during one of the weather breaks.
00:40:59And I would like to wear this white rose this morning for those two sweet children.
00:41:03We are so, all of us, emotionally involved in this story.
00:41:06You're sharing this information with viewers around the world as well.
00:41:10What was the initial reaction?
00:41:13Anger. People were angry.
00:41:16For the black community, there was added rage.
00:41:19Everybody's looking for a black man and, you know,
00:41:22I hate that she used this as a scapegoat, you know, to cover up the incident.
00:41:26You know, it could have been anything else, you know, but this is the way she chose out.
00:41:30Susan's attempts to blame a black man inflamed painful stereotypes.
00:41:36Union Sheriff Jeff Bailey.
00:41:38She deflected onto somebody else that she knew would gain attention from the media,
00:41:43gain attention from law enforcement.
00:41:44It's a black man that took these two white children.
00:41:48Susan's brother, Scotty, addressed the racial issue at a press conference.
00:41:53On behalf of my family, we want to apologize to the black community of Union.
00:41:59I'm thankful, especially to many of my black friends who called me and, you know,
00:42:06to comfort me and to tell me that they still love me.
00:42:11Amidst the tense climate, police drove Susan to the courthouse the day after her confession.
00:42:17This is no overstatement at all.
00:42:19There was a howling lynch mob of women waiting to see her.
00:42:31There was one woman leading that mob of outraged women.
00:42:36They were just outraged, black, white.
00:42:38And I remember she screamed at Susan, hold your head up.
00:42:42Hold your head up. I want to look at you.
00:42:46And that's when I knew this is going to fascinate the world for a long time.
00:42:55Three days after Susan Smith confessed to killing her sons, Michael and Alex Smith were laid to rest.
00:43:03Their father, David, inconsolable as he walked into the church to say a final goodbye.
00:43:11No, Greg, it throws everything out of whack.
00:43:14Forever.
00:43:15It changes everything, having to bury a child.
00:43:19And burying two of them.
00:43:22That your mother killed them.
00:43:25I didn't know which way to go.
00:43:28Scores of strangers felt his pain and gathered outside the church to pay their respects.
00:43:36I still can't, you know, grasp and say, why would somebody do anything like that, let alone a mother?
00:43:42Nearly a month later, David gathered the courage to face Susan.
00:43:47She just casually, like you and I sitting here, said, I'm sorry.
00:43:52And that was about as far as it went.
00:43:55Me? Greg, I would have been around her ankles begging her to forgive me if I had done what she did.
00:44:02That was it?
00:44:03That was it. That was it.
00:44:05Did she ask you to do anything during that conversation?
00:44:08Did she ask for you to testify on her behalf?
00:44:12Did she ask?
00:44:13No, she didn't even ask for my forgiveness.
00:44:15Did you ask her why?
00:44:16Yes, I did ask her, why did you do this?
00:44:18Why did you, why?
00:44:21And she said, I don't know why, but I'm sorry.
00:44:25David did not buy Susan's apology or her apparent remorse.
00:44:30And neither did prosecutors.
00:44:33They believed Susan's actions were premeditated and decided to seek the death penalty.
00:44:39Despite her confession, Susan pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder.
00:44:44What were people saying leading up to the trial?
00:44:47You know, there was the question of, do you think she should die for killing them?
00:44:50That got a lot of coverage and there was a lot of discussion.
00:44:54Many in the community were uncomfortable with the idea of sentencing a person to death, especially a woman.
00:45:02The young prosecutor in charge of the case, Tommy Pope, decided that shouldn't matter.
00:45:07I felt like Susan got treated differently than anyone else would in a similar situation.
00:45:14And I was determined from a justice standpoint not to let that happen.
00:45:18Why do you think she was treated differently?
00:45:21I think the problem was Susan reminded people, and I say people, us, jurors, law enforcement,
00:45:30she could have been your sister, she could have been your co-worker.
00:45:34Less than a year after she killed her boys, Susan stood trial for their murders.
00:45:40Opening statements of the trial of Susan Smith.
00:45:43Once again, news crews from all over the country descended on the small town of Union.
00:45:49Main Street in front of the courthouse is shut down.
00:45:52The prosecution was ready to present its case.
00:45:55What did you have to prove?
00:45:57So in South Carolina, I always tell people a death penalty is like a murder plus.
00:46:02And it's a two-part trial.
00:46:04The first part is about guilt.
00:46:06The second part, if you're successful on guilt, is the penalty.
00:46:09Prosecutors told the jury Susan's guilt was not in question.
00:46:13Her handwritten confession made that clear.
00:46:16Then they presented their theory of why she did it.
00:46:21What made her kill those boys was a selfish desire, a delusional desire, but a selfish desire to be with another man.
00:46:31That man was Tom Finley, the wealthy co-worker Susan dated after her marriage fell apart.
00:46:38The prosecution argued Susan was in love with him.
00:46:42There was just one problem.
00:46:45He didn't want kids?
00:46:47Prosecutors showed jurors a letter Tom wrote to Susan a week before she killed her children.
00:46:53In it, he explained why he ended their relationship.
00:46:57Susan, I could really fall for you.
00:47:00But, like I have told you before, there are some things about you that aren't suited for me.
00:47:05And yes, I am speaking about your children.
00:47:08The fact is, I don't want children.
00:47:11And I don't want to be responsible for anyone else's children either.
00:47:16Prosecutors argued those words pushed Susan to murder.
00:47:21You say, well, why wouldn't she just give away the kids?
00:47:25If you give away the kids, you're a bad mother.
00:47:29But if the carjacker takes your kids, you're a victim.
00:47:33And if you're a victim, you're more likely that Tom Finley is going to come and rescue you.
00:47:38The prosecution argued that Susan's carjacking story was a cold, calculated plan.
00:47:45Her failure to try and save her own sons was proof.
00:47:49I always tell people, if she had shown up at the house wet, injured from diving out of the car,
00:47:56if she had gone straight to that house and said, I've done a horrible thing,
00:48:00you and I would probably never be talking about it today.
00:48:03But she fabricated that story and put that car in the lake.
00:48:10Experts testified it took six minutes for Susan's car to sink
00:48:16and played this simulation video for the jury.
00:48:20You know, as it goes down and the water comes through the vents and the floorboard
00:48:24and it's coming up and it's coming toward that camera and ultimately it covers the camera,
00:48:28which, I mean, even describing it makes it hard to, you know, breathe almost.
00:48:32Day after day, David listened to testimony about the deaths of his sons.
00:48:37And each day, he was forced to look at the woman who killed them.
00:48:42As you sat there, what was going through your mind?
00:48:45I don't know if I should even answer that.
00:48:47Be honest, though.
00:48:49I used to sit there and look at the back of her head
00:48:52and then look at where the bailiffs were, the officers were, and think about killing her.
00:49:01How quick could I get to her? Could I reach her before that officer reaches me?
00:49:06Or could I get to her before that person would jump in front of me before I got my hands on her?
00:49:12Yeah.
00:49:13You wanted her dead.
00:49:14I did.
00:49:16Of course, David never acted on those thoughts.
00:49:19He was hoping the state would put Susan to death.
00:49:22But defense attorneys would have something to say about that.
00:49:26They had a very different explanation for why Susan killed her children.
00:49:31It is a story of a really complete emotional collapse.
00:49:50Susan Smith's lawyers had done everything they could to keep the death penalty off the table.
00:49:56Was there ever a plea deal offered?
00:49:58Absolutely. Yes.
00:50:00She would have fled guilty in exchange for a life sentence.
00:50:03Lead attorney David Brook.
00:50:05And the prosecution said no and made the offer again and again and again.
00:50:11The defense saw just one option.
00:50:14Lay out the case for why Susan should not be sentenced to death.
00:50:19When most people think about Susan Smith, it's manipulative, it's conniving.
00:50:24Some have described her as pure evil.
00:50:26Pure evil, yeah.
00:50:28The time that you spent with her preparing for her defense, what was she like?
00:50:33Well, a lot of what I saw was that she was just in an agony of grief and remorse and self-loathing.
00:50:43Grief for her children, remorse for what she had done.
00:50:47Out of the gate, they offered a very different explanation for why Susan killed her sons.
00:50:54What led her to the lake is a story of mental illness.
00:50:57It's a story of depression.
00:50:59It is a story of a really complete emotional collapse.
00:51:04They argued Susan wasn't homicidal that night.
00:51:07She was suicidal.
00:51:09To prove it, defense attorneys would present the details of Susan's past attempts to take her own life.
00:51:16Law enforcement agents were also called as witnesses to share what Susan told them.
00:51:22She mentioned to me that she had started down the ramp a couple times herself to commit suicide with the kids.
00:51:30She felt that was the best thing.
00:51:32Agent Pete Logan spent days observing Susan during the search for her boys.
00:51:37He testified he believed her account that she tried to take her own life as well that night.
00:51:43She stopped both times and got out of the car.
00:51:46She said, I'll never understand why I reached in and let the emergency brake go.
00:51:51The main thrust of her defense was sympathy, sympathy, sympathy.
00:51:56They told the jury Susan didn't kill her children to be with a wealthy man.
00:52:01To be clear, there was a wealthy boyfriend.
00:52:04Yes.
00:52:05Okay.
00:52:06You just maintain that it wasn't her affair with the wealthy boyfriend that led to the murders of Michael and Alex.
00:52:14It wasn't her desire to get back together with the wealthy boyfriend.
00:52:19That relationship was dead as a doornail before this crime occurred.
00:52:24The defense argued what happened at the lake stemmed from trauma far older than a recent breakup.
00:52:32It began when she was a child.
00:52:34She grew up in a in a family marked by alcoholism and violence.
00:52:40And finally, her father did commit suicide.
00:52:45Susan was six when he died.
00:52:48He shot himself and then called 911 and screamed into the phone to get them to come and help him.
00:52:54That is what suicide is like.
00:52:56It's not rational.
00:52:58People want to die and they want to live at the same time.
00:53:01And what she did at the lake really echoed the way her father left her when she was just a little girl.
00:53:10The defense hired a renowned psychiatrist to evaluate Susan and testify about her past.
00:53:16This is a person scarred by childhood, scarred by a disordered family, a dysfunctional family.
00:53:25And the defense argued those untreated scars and depression led to suicidal thoughts.
00:53:32She is a child at age 13 was making childish suicidal suicidal attempts with pills.
00:53:39And again at age 18.
00:53:42The last attempt, so serious, Susan was hospitalized.
00:53:47While you were dating, even when you were married, did she seem like she was mentally ill at any point?
00:53:51No.
00:53:52No depression?
00:53:53No.
00:53:54No.
00:53:55Seemed totally normal?
00:53:56Yes.
00:53:57And when you heard that, did you think, oh, well, that might explain this or that might explain that?
00:54:05Or no?
00:54:06No.
00:54:09I don't.
00:54:10Nothing gives you the right to kill your children.
00:54:18Susan's attorneys presented even more evidence to shed light on her behavior.
00:54:22It involved her relationship with stepfather Beverly Russell.
00:54:27A father who seemed to the outside world what she had lacked in in her earliest years.
00:54:35But it turned out that he had been sexually molesting her when she was a teenager at age at least at age 15, 16.
00:54:44Susan reported the abuse to a teacher.
00:54:47Social services investigated and Russell confessed.
00:54:51But after a closed court hearing, no criminal charges were filed.
00:54:55Russell did agree to move out and undergo family counseling.
00:55:00After Susan's arrest, it was Russell who took out a mortgage to pay for her defense.
00:55:06Beverly Russell is quite the interesting character in all of this.
00:55:09He's an abuser.
00:55:10Oh, by the way, he hires you to represent her.
00:55:14Yes.
00:55:15Expert witnesses testified the sexual abuse was a major contributor to Susan's depression, promiscuity, and insecurity.
00:55:26And it all came crashing down at that lake.
00:55:30You argued there was another reason that Susan snapped that night.
00:55:34This mounting fear that her private life was about to be exposed.
00:55:39What did she fear was going to come out?
00:55:41Well, her ex-husband, David, knew that she had had this sexual relationship with her boss.
00:55:55And it had also come out that this sexual relationship with her stepfather had resumed.
00:56:04In the year leading up to the boys' deaths, the defense told the jury that Beverly Russell had more sexual encounters with Susan.
00:56:12And she is exhibiting the promiscuity and the impaired judgment of an untreated incest survivor,
00:56:21of somebody who was left to figure out what had been done to her on her own.
00:56:26The defense argued Susan worried it would come out during her divorce.
00:56:31She was a single mother with two small children who was about to be utterly disgraced.
00:56:36And she could not, could not survive this.
00:56:42And the children could not be left alone without their mother.
00:56:46And that is where the suicide idea came from.
00:56:53The defense had done all it could to garner sympathy for Susan Smith and rested its case.
00:56:59But the trial would have one more twist.
00:57:02At the last minute, the judge allowed jurors to consider a lesser charge.
00:57:07It took the prosecution by surprise.
00:57:10The judge decided to give an involuntary manslaughter instruction too,
00:57:16which suddenly took you from murder to like five year penalty or something.
00:57:21And so that was a little nervous time going to the jury in that first phase.
00:57:26The courtroom was on pins and needles.
00:57:29Would the jury spare Susan Smith's life?
00:57:47On July 22, 1995, in the sweltering heat of a South Carolina summer,
00:57:53the jury and the Susan Smith trial started deliberations.
00:57:57Do you remember what it was like, Tommy, waiting for that verdict to come back from the jury?
00:58:02It's stressful waiting. You know, you run through your mind.
00:58:05Would I do this different? Would I do that different?
00:58:07But you have to kind of let that go and just accept what comes.
00:58:11Were you fairly confident that they would convict her?
00:58:15I didn't really know either way.
00:58:17That was the first time I've ever been through a trial, and especially one capital murder.
00:58:25Just two hours later, the jury returned with a verdict, guilty on two counts of murder.
00:58:32At least she was going to go to prison. That took some relief off of me.
00:58:39And right on cue, Mother Nature offered the town a bit of relief as well.
00:58:45The weather broke. It rained like I haven't seen it rain in a long time.
00:58:50It was like a cleansing in that little town.
00:58:54The prosecution had won the first battle, but another lay ahead.
00:58:59The penalty phase. Given the evidence, given the confession, given the mounting publicity,
00:59:04how worried were you that she was, in fact, going to be executed?
00:59:09I thought it was so clear from the facts that this was a murder-suicide attempt that was caused by mental illness
00:59:18that she was not going to be sentenced to death.
00:59:21This time, the defense could call character witnesses to testify, people who knew Susan well.
00:59:28What was the strongest testimony that you had?
00:59:32I think the testimony about how much she loved those children from so many people.
00:59:38But the defense's most riveting testimony came from Susan's stepfather, Beverly Russell.
00:59:44He read from a letter he'd written to Susan after her arrest.
00:59:48In it, he acknowledged his sexual abuse and apologized for the damage he'd caused.
00:59:55Beverly Russell was a very, very flawed man, but he still saw his responsibility to Susan when this disaster struck and did what he could.
01:00:05But the prosecution had a completely different take and reminded the jury that Susan wasn't the victim in this trial.
01:00:13Her sons were. David took to the stand to share his fondest memories.
01:00:19How hard was that for you?
01:00:22It was probably the, I won't say the hardest day I've ever had, but it's been among the top five.
01:00:30What do you remember about that experience?
01:00:34I remember Tommy Pope just asking me a lot of questions about Michael and Alex and about mine and Susan's marriage.
01:00:43I remember it seemed like I cried a lot.
01:00:47Everybody was in tears. It was so raw. It was so powerful in its emotion, in its heartbreak, in his heartbreak.
01:00:56The prosecution wanted Susan to pay for the terrible agony she'd caused and hoped the jurors would, too.
01:01:04They deliberated just two hours before agreeing on a sentence.
01:01:08Life in prison.
01:01:10When the decision was read that Susan would not be executed for the crimes, what was her reaction?
01:01:18Well, she was relieved for her family, that her family was not going to have to go through the whole gruesome process of having a loved one executed.
01:01:28But David was both angry and disappointed. He still is.
01:01:34It wasn't an accident. She didn't kill them by mistake. She took a life. She should have gave up her life for it.
01:01:43Lead prosecutor Tommy Pope says it was a hard loss to accept, but he has no regrets.
01:01:50I mean, I felt like we proved our case beyond a reasonable doubt.
01:01:54A few weeks after the verdict, Dateline's Dennis Murphy talked to five of the jurors.
01:02:00Why did you decide to spare Susan Smith with your vote?
01:02:04After we listened to everything and we got all the evidence, I figured that the deaf family just wouldn't.
01:02:12That would be an easy way out, to my opinion.
01:02:16Would you say you all bought the defense presentation of Susan Smith, a woman with a lot of trouble?
01:02:22I never went for the suicide part of it.
01:02:25What do you hope will happen to Susan Smith?
01:02:27I hope that Susan will be able to live with herself in prison for the rest of her life knowing that.
01:02:33But that life sentence didn't guarantee Susan would spend the rest of her days in prison.
01:02:38After 30 years, she'd be eligible for parole, something David could not live with and would fight tooth and nail to prevent.
01:02:48She deliberately killed Michael and Alex, and they can't let her out.
01:03:02In the years after his boys were murdered, David Smith's heartbreak was so all-consuming, he sometimes thought about taking his own life.
01:03:16There were a few times.
01:03:18Take me back to one of those times. You went back to the lake. What happened?
01:03:23I had my car lined up on the same boat ramp.
01:03:28No.
01:03:29No, because I wanted to go to the same place the same way they did.
01:03:37But I couldn't do it.
01:03:41I prayed for the strength to do it.
01:03:45There was a time when I was on their grave with a gun in my mouth,
01:03:53praying to God to give me the strength to pull that trigger.
01:03:59But thank goodness he didn't do it.
01:04:03Susan's life sentence didn't put David at ease.
01:04:07She would still be eligible for parole after 30 years, and it weighed on him.
01:04:13Would you have been better off had the state executed her?
01:04:17Wow.
01:04:19For myself, yes, because I wouldn't have to be dealing with what's coming up now.
01:04:25I mean, Craig, I know they said she had a tough life growing up, and I've never tried to make light of that.
01:04:35But you don't kill your children for what happened to you.
01:04:42I wanted an eye for an eye, but the jury saw a difference.
01:04:48At first, David put the thought of Susan's potential freedom in the back of his mind.
01:04:54He and Tiffany, who'd remained by his side, focused on building a life together.
01:04:59They married in 2003.
01:05:02I saw how dedicated and faithful and compassionate Tiffany was through all of it and stuck by my side.
01:05:15So I knew I better make that jump before I lose it.
01:05:20And while David didn't think he would have more kids, along came a daughter, Savannah, now 24.
01:05:28How does something like that change you as a father?
01:05:33When you lose two kids the way you lost them, how does that change you and the way you parent?
01:05:40For me, it was a fine balance between being overprotective and not very protective at all,
01:05:50not being part of their life because you're scared to love them because something might happen to them.
01:05:56As for Susan, her name still made headlines periodically, mostly when she found herself in trouble.
01:06:03In 2000, two guards were fired and later convicted of having inappropriate relationships with her.
01:06:09Susan was transferred to a different prison.
01:06:12She was also punished several times for possessing illegal drugs.
01:06:17What have you heard? What have you been made aware of?
01:06:19I've heard about drug abuse, had sexual relations with guards, but I would just hear it and then move on.
01:06:26When you heard those things, did it surprise you?
01:06:30No, no, not at all.
01:06:33Not much else was known about Susan's life in prison.
01:06:38And then in 2004, Dateline producer Carol Gable wrote to Susan asking for an interview.
01:06:45Though South Carolina doesn't allow prisoners to do on-camera or phone interviews, Susan was allowed to write letters.
01:06:53Dear Carol, I received your letter and was glad to hear from you.
01:06:58The correspondence would continue for 20 years and give a rare look into Susan's life in her own words.
01:07:06When you wrote that initial letter to her, what were you hoping to accomplish?
01:07:12What I was hoping to do is to get some sense of her point of view.
01:07:17We heard lots about her.
01:07:19Many, many people are willing to talk about her, but she hasn't spoken much about herself.
01:07:27Susan would end up sending more than 50 letters, some casual, others more revealing.
01:07:34I am not a horrible person, Carol. I'm a human being who made a horrible decision.
01:07:39I grieve daily for my boys.
01:07:42In her letters, Susan wrote about her struggles with mental health.
01:07:47I cannot remember a time when I did not suffer from depression.
01:07:51Everyone has a breaking point, but not everyone reaches theirs.
01:07:56I'm not trying to offer excuses for what happened,
01:07:59but neither am I this mean person who harmed her children because she wanted to be with a man who didn't want children.
01:08:06She also said she attempted suicide three times while in prison.
01:08:11When they found me, there was a big puddle of blood and I'd written with my blood, let me die.
01:08:17Carol, I truly did want to die at that moment.
01:08:21As the years passed, Susan sent cards.
01:08:24She wrote about getting therapy, medication, and a job.
01:08:29Right now, I'm working in the school as a tutor.
01:08:32I teach math to students trying to get their GED.
01:08:36Did you ever think, especially early on in the back and forth, that she might have an agenda with you?
01:08:43Oh, sure. I mean, you always have to consider that as a possibility.
01:08:48But over time, she always said the same things.
01:08:52And then change. The facts then change.
01:08:55One thing Susan can never change is what she did at the lake that night.
01:09:01In a recent letter just last week, she included what she says is her best explanation for what happened.
01:09:09I'd never felt so completely alone as I did that night.
01:09:13I bit all my fingernails off.
01:09:15When I got to the lake, that's when it hit me how I was going to die.
01:09:19Michael and Alex were asleep.
01:09:22She said she stopped the car from going into the lake several times before finally jumping out.
01:09:28And then she let it roll in.
01:09:32I never saw the car go into the lake.
01:09:35When I reached the top of the hill, I stopped and looked back, and all I could see was a dark lake.
01:09:41You'd never have thought that two little boys had just drowned at their mother's hand.
01:09:46Susan says she accepts responsibility for what she did.
01:09:51David disagrees.
01:09:53I don't think she's even, to me, been really sorry for what she did.
01:09:58You don't think she's sorry?
01:09:59No. Not genuinely.
01:10:01By November 2024, Susan was 53 and believed she was ready to reenter society.
01:10:09She would argue as much at her parole hearing.
01:10:12But David would also be there fighting to keep Susan in prison.
01:10:18You don't think she's been rehabilitated?
01:10:20I don't think she'll ever be rehabilitated.
01:10:24The months before Susan's parole hearing were anxious times for David and Tiffany Smith.
01:10:30For almost 30 years, we've not worried about it.
01:10:34And then for six months leading up to the parole hearing, it started eating away at both of us.
01:10:41It was like, I don't know what to do.
01:10:43It was like, I don't know what to do.
01:10:45It was like, I don't know what to do.
01:10:47And then for six months leading up to the parole hearing, it started eating away at both of us.
01:10:53Because they could come back and say, let her out.
01:10:56What do you plan to say?
01:10:58I don't know for sure.
01:11:00Just speaking from the heart.
01:11:01Nothing scripted.
01:11:03But I just want to tell that parole board that they can't let her out.
01:11:09The day finally arrived, a rainy November morning in 2024.
01:11:14For David and Tiffany, it was deja vu.
01:11:18There were cameras set up out on the lawn everywhere.
01:11:23But Susan would not face the cameras outside.
01:11:27She appeared virtually from prison where she'd spent decades.
01:11:31Her trial attorney, David Bruck, believes Susan should be released.
01:11:36Susan doesn't pose a danger to society.
01:11:39I don't see what punishing her year after year after year in prison does to help anyone.
01:11:46To those who would say, Michael and Alex deserve more than 25, 30 years for their murders.
01:11:55Michael and Alex are beyond harm or help.
01:11:58Susan's parole attorney, Tommy Thomas, told the board Susan's untreated mental health issues led her to the lake that night.
01:12:07It doesn't take away from the horrendous nature of the crime.
01:12:11She knows that she's guilty.
01:12:13She struggles with the guilt every day.
01:12:17He said Susan would live with her brother back in Union and try to become a counselor if granted release.
01:12:24I think that her motivation of being released is secondary.
01:12:29To the primary goal of if she can maybe help some other mother who is thinking of maybe the same things.
01:12:41And then, for the first time since 1994, Susan Smith appeared on camera to speak on her own behalf.
01:12:51First of all, I want to say how very sorry I am.
01:13:00I know that what I did was horrible.
01:13:15And I would give anything if I could go back and change it.
01:13:20And I love Michael and Alex with all my heart.
01:13:26The board asked what she would say to the law enforcement community who worked tirelessly for nine days to find her children.
01:13:34That I'm sorry that I put them through that.
01:13:37I really, really am.
01:13:39And I'm especially sorry to the other person that had to find them.
01:13:44I wish I could take that back.
01:13:46I really do.
01:13:49I was really, I didn't want to get away with it.
01:13:53I really didn't.
01:13:55I was just scared.
01:13:57I didn't know how I could tell the people that loved them that they would never see them again.
01:14:02I didn't know how I could tell David he couldn't see his sons again.
01:14:06Susan acknowledged she hasn't been a model prisoner but claimed she's changed.
01:14:12I grew up and I knew that I needed to stop making dumb decisions.
01:14:18And I did.
01:14:20I just, I knew it was time to just grow up and do the right thing.
01:14:25I just made a lot of dumb choices and mistakes in here.
01:14:30So I know I've learned from those mistakes.
01:14:33In closing, she begged the board for her freedom.
01:14:37I am a Christian and God is a big part of my life.
01:14:42And I know he has forgiven me.
01:14:45And it is by his grace and mercy that, and I have a lot of faith and I live by that every day.
01:14:51And I just ask that you show that same kind of mercy as well.
01:14:59But the hearing wasn't over.
01:15:01David and Tiffany were about to address the board.
01:15:04They filed into the room, flanked by family and friends, all wearing a pinned photo of Michael and Alex on their chests.
01:15:13Tiffany cautioned the board not to be swayed by any of Susan's arguments.
01:15:18All I can think about is how much she lied and manipulated everybody.
01:15:24And that just makes me feel like if she could do that then, whatever she's told you today, I'm sure were probably lies as well.
01:15:32And then all eyes were on David Smith.
01:15:36God gives us free choice.
01:15:39And she made free choice that night to end her life.
01:15:44This wasn't a tragic mistake.
01:15:47It wasn't something that she didn't mean to do.
01:15:51She purposely meant to end her life.
01:15:58I understand back in 95 that through the state's law, life in prison meant 30 years to life.
01:16:10But ultimately to me, that's only 15 years per child.
01:16:18Her own children.
01:16:22It's just not enough.
01:16:26After three decades, Susan's fate lay in the hands of the parole board.
01:16:31Its decision was just moments away.
01:16:51After an hour of tense, emotional testimony at Susan Smith's parole hearing, the decision came quickly in the end.
01:16:58Susan Smith is denied parole.
01:17:00The board denied Susan's request.
01:17:02By that point, she had left the Zoom hearing.
01:17:05Once again, David spoke to the swarm of cameras outside.
01:17:09Today, the committee made the right decision and denied her parole.
01:17:18That's how it was.
01:17:19You literally could feel and see the relief off of both of us.
01:17:26For now, Susan Smith remains in prison.
01:17:30But going forward, she'll be up for parole every two years.
01:17:35Every two years, you're going to have to deal with this.
01:17:37Yes.
01:17:38Have you made peace with that?
01:17:40Yes.
01:17:41How?
01:17:42Because it's going to give me another chance to stand up for Michael Alex, to defend him, and try to keep the sympathy off of her that she keeps trying to conjure.
01:18:02And every time he goes up to the parole board, Tiffany says she will be there with him.
01:18:10How hard has this been on you over the last 30 years?
01:18:14It's been very hard to start with.
01:18:19It took a while for him to trust me again because he had been betrayed so awfully.
01:18:31But I stuck beside him through it all to try to win his trust, to show him that I wouldn't do anything like that.
01:18:39That's not who I am.
01:18:42And then losing Michael and Alex was a loss to me as well because I've always loved children.
01:18:48David and Tiffany don't live in union anymore.
01:18:52They have a home near Spartanburg where David continues to get up every morning and work at a manufacturing company.
01:18:59How have you been able to do it?
01:19:01What has been the secret to not letting what happened define your life?
01:19:08I would say the top would be my faith in God.
01:19:16You know, I was mad at him for a long time.
01:19:20Me and him have had some heated discussions, but I never blamed him.
01:19:24But the second was not letting her win.
01:19:30You may have took my children, but you're not going to make me bitter.
01:19:35You're not going to make me mad at the world.
01:19:38You're not going to make me take my own life.
01:19:40You're not going to win.
01:19:43Have you forgiven her?
01:19:44Of course.
01:19:46Why?
01:19:47Because that's the way I was taught.
01:19:49I had to forgive her because it was just going to eat me up if I didn't.
01:19:52It was going to hold me back.
01:19:54But he says there's another painful struggle he faces daily, trying to remember his boys.
01:20:01It's been three decades now.
01:20:03Are the memories, are they still fresh or do they fade at some point?
01:20:11I've never really had any memories of them since they passed.
01:20:17I was told by, you know, psychiatrists and stuff through the years early on that
01:20:25that was just my self-defense system.
01:20:29It was protecting me from myself.
01:20:32But that they would come back.
01:20:35But Craig, we're here 30 years later, as you said.
01:20:38And I still have very few memories of Mike and Alex, and that hurts.
01:20:42It hurts.
01:20:43You want vivid memories.
01:20:45Yes.
01:20:46Of course I want to remember them.
01:20:48I remember things I did with them.
01:20:51But they're not there.
01:20:53What do you think that is?
01:20:54Do you think that perhaps it is to help you on some weird level?
01:21:00That's all I can think it is.
01:21:03It's my own mind protecting me from myself because I still miss them so much
01:21:12that those memories would just hurt too much.
01:21:16And my own self knows that.
01:21:19And it's just saying, not yet, David.
01:21:21Not yet.
01:21:26Just three weeks ago, David returned to John D. Long Lake,
01:21:30the place where this whole tragedy began.
01:21:36Stopping at the memorial the community erected for the boys,
01:21:40people still come here to pay their respects.
01:21:45Michael and Alex have touched so many hearts.
01:21:52The lake, he says, looks a little different.
01:21:55This is the first time I've been back to this lake in about 25 years.
01:22:01For one thing, that boat ramp that Susan used is gone.
01:22:06To the eyes it's more peaceful, but to the heart it's still sad, sadness.
01:22:16David listened to the quiet wind blow over the lake,
01:22:20then shared a few final words for his little boys.
01:22:27I'm so sorry.
01:22:32That your life ended this way.
01:22:39I'm so sorry.
01:22:43It's just such a peaceful place to have such a horrific thing happen.
01:22:59I miss you.
01:23:02That's all for this edition of Dateline.
01:23:05And check out our Talking Dateline podcast, Craig Melvin and Josh Mankiewicz.
01:23:10We'll go behind the scenes of tonight's episode,
01:23:13available Wednesday in the Dateline feed wherever you get your podcasts.
01:23:18We'll see you again next Friday at 9, 8 central.
01:23:21I'm Lester Holt.
01:23:23For all of us at NBC News, good night.
01:23:26♪♪