Dark Side of the Ring S6 Episode 3 - Big Van Vader
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00:00Ladies and gentlemen, the greatest big man in the history of wrestling, Vader!
00:14In the world of professional wrestling, every hero needs a villain.
00:18And few villains were tougher, scarier, or more dangerous than Big Van Vader.
00:27The most amazing super heavyweight that I've ever seen. Ever.
00:33When you looked at him, you'd think, my God, who would ever fight that guy?
00:37He is one of the most sadistic, one of the most physically intimidating athletes that I have ever seen in my career.
00:43He was 400 pounds and could do moonsaults.
00:46The moonsault!
00:48Vader was a world champion in almost every continent on the globe that had professional wrestling.
00:52But he had a reputation.
00:54When he started hammering people, they were like, damn, that had to hurt.
00:59Because it did.
01:00He was the stiffest wrestler I've ever been in the ring with.
01:04He was really good at that style, but it would be a scary thing.
01:08But the violence that made Vader a sensation also sabotages his career,
01:13as the industry's biggest stars turn their back on him.
01:17You've got to remember what's showbiz and what's real.
01:20And sometimes Leon had a hard time separating the fact from the fiction.
01:23Out of the ring, the man who became a champion by inflicting pain struggles to deal with his own.
01:29He lived life hard.
01:31He did things that a man his size shouldn't have been able to do.
01:35And paid a big price for it.
01:37Pain will change you.
01:39Your personality will change.
01:41You will change.
01:43Big Ben Vader is the greatest super heavyweight of all time.
01:46But he's still human.
01:49And sometimes many of us forgot that.
01:52Vader, he fears no man.
01:55And he feels no pain.
01:57If you look at some of the great movie villains,
02:12they were just so overwhelmingly powerful that they were terrifying.
02:17You rooted for your favorite character to survive that encounter.
02:22Vader, and in professional wrestling,
02:26Vader was the greatest monster, really, of his era.
02:29Vader!
02:30My name is Mick Foley.
02:32I'm a three-time WWE champion.
02:35And I was pummeled by Vader on many occasions.
02:38No!
02:39Leon was one of those few people who could come in and make it look like
02:42not only might your favorite be losing their title,
02:46it might be losing their life.
02:47Like they were fighting for something bigger than a victory.
02:52Vader was going to give it to you.
02:53And if you didn't give it back, he was going to eat you up.
02:57My name is Jesse White.
02:58And I have the honor and privilege of being the son of Leon White,
03:02a.k.a. Vader.
03:04Dad grew up in Linwood, California,
03:06about two miles outside of Compton.
03:08In a house with a lot of violence.
03:11A lot of it involved around alcohol.
03:14Growing up, he kind of had to step up
03:16to take care of his family
03:18and become the head of the family.
03:22He had a rough one.
03:23He had a rough one, you know?
03:24I'm Deborah White,
03:26and I was married to Leon White,
03:28a.k.a. Big Van Vader.
03:32The school he went to,
03:34he had to pretty much fight every day.
03:37This is the late 60s,
03:38and now LA's starting to get a little bit more rough.
03:40My dad was probably about 12 years old.
03:42He was at home watching Star Trek with his sister,
03:45and someone's coming to break in the house.
03:48Two men had broken the window in the back.
03:51I screamed at my sister,
03:52and we ran out the front door,
03:53and they chased us.
03:54You could just tell if they had bad intentions.
03:57So they ran down to the bar where Grandpa was at.
03:59Grandpa took them back home,
04:01boarded up the window,
04:02gave them a shotgun,
04:03said if someone comes through,
04:05you know what to do this time.
04:06He made sure that Leon knew
04:09you don't take shit from anybody.
04:12He was trying to make him tough,
04:14and obviously,
04:16he turned out pretty tough.
04:19Sports is where my dad found his identity.
04:22If it wasn't for football,
04:23I don't know if Pops ever makes it out of LA.
04:26He was a hell of a player.
04:27When he would hit you,
04:29even if he was messing around,
04:31man, it hurt.
04:33My name is Dave Logan.
04:34I played a long time in the NFL.
04:36I met Leon his freshman year,
04:37University of Colorado,
04:39and after that,
04:39we just became fast friends.
04:41His nickname was Baby Bull.
04:43Bull fit him perfectly,
04:46because he was very, very tough,
04:49unbelievably strong,
04:51an incredible, incredible athlete.
04:54He was drafted third round
04:55to the Los Angeles Rams,
04:57but unfortunately,
04:58due to knee injuries that he had,
05:00he couldn't play anymore.
05:02That's what he worked for
05:02his whole entire life,
05:03was to get there
05:04and go have that success,
05:05and this wasn't the success
05:06that he wanted.
05:08He was trying to figure out
05:08what was next for him.
05:11Being an athlete,
05:12he still felt he can contribute
05:13something athletically,
05:15so he decided to give
05:16pro wrestling a try.
05:18Leaving his NFL career behind,
05:21Leon is welcomed into
05:22the pro wrestling business
05:23by one of the sport's
05:25toughest men.
05:27I went down to the local
05:28wrestling show down in Denver,
05:30and I put on a pair of cowboy boots
05:32and a cowboy hat,
05:33and I just walked in.
05:34Everybody just froze.
05:36And Bruiser Brody stood up,
05:38walked over,
05:38and Brody was about 6'5".
05:40He said,
05:41what the f*** you want
05:41in my locker room?
05:43I was scared to death,
05:44but I stared him right down
05:45in the eye and said,
05:46man, I'm here to get a job.
05:48Next thing I know, man,
05:49I got my bags packed,
05:50and I'm in my car
05:52and I'm going to win in Minnesota.
05:53King Kong Brody against Leon,
05:55the baby bull white,
05:57and it's underway.
05:58Let's go.
05:59Whoa!
06:00Another one.
06:02When Leon White started,
06:04he was trained in the Midwest,
06:05and he had notoriety
06:07even as a rookie
06:08because of his size
06:09and NFL background.
06:12He was close to 400 pounds,
06:14but he was amazingly
06:15agile and nimble.
06:18He was 6'3",
06:19and as wide as a wrecking ball.
06:22So he was very convincing
06:24in that he could
06:26kick the s*** out of him.
06:27Oh, look at Leon.
06:28At the time,
06:29Stan Hansen was a champion
06:30for AWA.
06:31Stan Hansen,
06:32the biggest,
06:33the nicest.
06:34He was teaching my dad
06:36the ropes in AWA.
06:37Are you ready?
06:38Well, he was a very
06:40impressive guy.
06:41Oh, look at the agility of him.
06:43Yeah!
06:44But I'm pretty aggressive,
06:46so when he stepped
06:48into the ring,
06:49it's on.
06:50Boom!
06:52Hi, this is Stan Hansen.
06:53I'm here to talk about Vader.
06:56Stan Hansen and Bruiser Brody
06:58introduced Leon
06:59to a rough in-ring style
07:00that pushes the boundaries
07:02between showmanship
07:03and violence,
07:04a style insiders call
07:06working stiff.
07:08It was much more physical.
07:09We just decided
07:11to go all out.
07:12As long as we could,
07:14that's what made us strong.
07:15That's where it starts
07:16and that's where
07:17it's going to end.
07:18When a guy's stuff
07:20lands really well,
07:22he's stiff.
07:24It didn't injure you,
07:26but it hurt.
07:27But that's the way
07:28he was trained live
07:30in front of a crowd.
07:31Brody and Stan
07:32beat the hell out of my dad
07:33and my dad took it,
07:34didn't complain.
07:35And I think both Stan
07:37and Bruiser
07:37respected that about my dad.
07:39I never looked at him
07:41like a student.
07:42I always looked at him
07:44as a very equal competitor.
07:49But Leon Baby Bull White
07:52did not exactly set
07:53the wrestling world on fire
07:55until he got a deal
07:56to go to Japan.
07:58And they made him
07:59the character
08:00of Big Van Vader.
08:03It was an amazing gimmick.
08:05It was an amazing outfit.
08:06And Vader became
08:09an instant sensation.
08:11I'm Jim Cornette.
08:13And in the WWF,
08:14I was the manager
08:15of the man they call Vader.
08:17From Tokyo, Japan,
08:19Antonio Inoki.
08:22Antonio Inoki,
08:24Japanese wrestling legend,
08:26was the owner
08:26of New Japan Pro Wrestling.
08:28And he was always looking
08:30for monster foreigners,
08:32monster heels
08:32that he could vanquish somehow.
08:35And with Leon's size,
08:37he knew he had something.
08:39The legend goes
08:40that Big Van Vader
08:42was a samurai warrior
08:43who represented an island.
08:44And him and another warrior
08:46fought to the death.
08:47Big Van Vader won that battle.
08:50And so Inoki always wanted
08:51to make a character
08:51based on that.
08:53The samurai warrior
08:54come to life
08:55for the Japanese fans.
08:57He also created the helmet.
08:59The headgear
09:01and the shoulder pads
09:02were custom-made in Japan.
09:04And it required a person
09:06to operate it remotely.
09:08Where the steam would come out
09:10of the shoulder pads
09:11and the spikes,
09:12it was something
09:12that people hadn't seen before.
09:14And that's what
09:15Antonio Inoki needed for Japan.
09:19Antonio Inoki
09:20hadn't lost a match
09:21in three, four years.
09:22And Big Van Vader comes out
09:23and beats him
09:24in under three minutes.
09:26The fans were so upset.
09:28that they rioted.
09:30It's probably the most
09:31impactful debut
09:32in professional wrestling history.
09:36I sat down in the room
09:37with Inoki and Masasaito
09:39and they said,
09:40listen,
09:40just go out there
09:41and be a monster.
09:43When you hit somebody,
09:44you know, hit them.
09:45And it was successful for me.
09:48I think the Japanese fans
09:49started realizing
09:51that this is someone
09:52who's special and important.
09:54And my dad was the first
09:55American to hold
09:56IWGP championship.
09:58They would bow to him.
10:00He was the Hulk Hogan
10:02of Japan.
10:03With interest from Japanese fans
10:05at an all-time high,
10:06Stan Hansen
10:07and Big Van Vader
10:08are scheduled
10:09for an epic match
10:10destined to become
10:12one of the biggest
10:13of all time.
10:15So it was in a lot of ways
10:16a dream match
10:17for those fans.
10:18Ah, yeah.
10:19Are in a nightmare.
10:20My dad and Stan Hansen
10:25are the main event.
10:26There is 60,000,
10:2865,000 people in attendance
10:29sold out of Tokyo Dome.
10:31There was two big horses
10:32in there
10:33from opposite stables.
10:35He started hammering me hard
10:37and I hit him back.
10:40It was the real deal.
10:43They wanted it to look real.
10:44Sometimes you didn't know.
10:46The line was really close
10:47and the result could be
10:49scary.
10:52And boom!
10:53Hits Leon right in the eye.
10:57Stan Hansen
10:58knocked Vader's eyeball
11:00out of his head.
11:01He's in.
11:03I'll do it!
11:12When he pulled off his mask,
11:15I mean,
11:15there was a huge reaction
11:17You could see the swelling
11:20and the discoloration
11:22had started almost immediately.
11:25I freaked out.
11:26Leon takes it,
11:28pushes it back into his head
11:29and goes for it.
11:32After 10 minutes
11:34of exchanging blows,
11:36I can remember saying,
11:37take it easy, Leon.
11:40I was scared to death.
11:42But I will tell you,
11:43it was a phenomenal match.
11:45The brutality of the match
11:48with Stan Hansen
11:49cements Vader
11:49as one of the toughest
11:50and most popular wrestlers
11:52in Japan.
11:54Leon was in Japan
11:55probably 32 weeks a year.
11:58He was gone all the time.
12:00Growing up,
12:00he probably missed
12:01half of my childhood.
12:02It's tough for him,
12:03it's tough for my mother,
12:04it's tough for me,
12:05but that's the life he chose.
12:08And it's the life
12:08I was born into.
12:09As Leon's infamous match
12:11with Stan Hansen
12:12circulates among tape traders,
12:14a new opportunity
12:15opens up stateside.
12:17When I was at WCW,
12:19somebody sent me some footage
12:20of the Hansen match
12:21and that's what gave me
12:22the idea to bring him in.
12:24This is one big, big man.
12:27I'm Jim Ross
12:28and my relationship with Leon
12:30goes back a good while.
12:32This is big time.
12:34We're signed with Ted Turner, right?
12:35So extremely important for him,
12:38for us as a family.
12:39And instantly,
12:40he's in the main events.
12:42I mean,
12:42you can't put this guy
12:43in the second match.
12:44He was just a human
12:46demolition machine.
12:47He's the big, bad villain.
12:49He's the one that
12:50beat up the pretty boys.
12:53He took pride in his craft,
12:55but what truly separated my dad
12:57is his athleticism
12:58and his ability to have
13:01a 25-minute main event match.
13:02Oh, no!
13:03Wow!
13:04This guy is just tough, man.
13:06Vader had a big impact on me.
13:09He's...
13:09Check!
13:11The irresistible force
13:12versus the immovable object
13:14and you wonder
13:15which one's going to give first.
13:17Whoa!
13:18The stuff Leon and I
13:19were doing was a little edgy.
13:21Whoa!
13:22Falls back with him!
13:23Look at his moonsault.
13:25Oh, the moonsault was crazy.
13:26Vader going up!
13:29I can say that as a guy
13:31who was on the receiving end of it.
13:33Oh!
13:34He's a 400-pound athlete
13:36doing a backflip
13:38from the top rope.
13:39Moonsault!
13:40It's crazy!
13:40How many big men
13:41in the business
13:42have you seen do that?
13:44At about the exact time
13:45that Vader debuted
13:47his moonsault,
13:49it was like the whole complexion
13:50of that company changed
13:52because he just raised
13:54the bar incredibly high.
13:56The intense matches
13:57with Cactus Jack
13:58elevates Vader into being
14:00one of WCW's top attractions.
14:03Nobody was going to be able
14:05to stop Vader.
14:06Vader has one!
14:07Vader has one!
14:08It was extremely big
14:10for my dad, right?
14:11Winning a championship
14:11for any federation,
14:12it's big time.
14:14So this is when things
14:15start escalating
14:16to a new level of fame.
14:18Vader's here!
14:19Who's the man?
14:21You're the man!
14:23Vader!
14:23Vader!
14:24Growing up
14:25and seeing your dad
14:26on television
14:27three, four times a week,
14:28being on The War Meets World,
14:31they watched a couple movies,
14:33that's pretty cool.
14:34Except the talent of Vader!
14:37But it was a double-edged sword
14:39because you're trying
14:40to develop a relationship
14:41with your father
14:42and he's constantly on the road.
14:43He wasn't around
14:44like the rest of the fathers were.
14:46He enjoyed being on the road
14:47because it's a fun lifestyle,
14:50right?
14:50Rockstar lifestyle.
14:51He worked very, very hard
14:53to get there
14:54but he got to where
14:56that's all he did
14:59was be a star.
15:01I was fascinated by that.
15:03The whole thing about
15:04stepping outside of that curtain
15:05and regardless if you're having
15:07a good day or a bad day
15:08in your life,
15:10it just goes away
15:11and you become Vader
15:12and boy, it's just
15:13feeling like none other
15:14and I got addicted to it.
15:16He's coming to my basketball games
15:17and we have a line of,
15:19you know, 20, 25 people
15:20asking for autographs
15:21and I'm starting
15:22to get jealous
15:24and I'm like,
15:25no, no, no, Dad,
15:26you're here to watch me
15:26not sign autographs.
15:27Sometimes I think
15:28I went overboard
15:29in the character
15:30and I guess
15:32it made me real believable.
15:33You got to be Vader
15:34for so long.
15:36At times in my life,
15:38I've had trouble
15:39turning it off.
15:41He did have
15:42a Jekyll and Hyde
15:43quality to him.
15:44Very soft-hearted
15:45but he also had
15:46the ability
15:47to change.
15:48I believe
15:49anything you say,
15:50I believe it.
15:50And I mean
15:51at the flip
15:52of a switch.
15:53Don't get him
15:54out of here.
15:55He could go
15:55from 1 to 10
15:57like fast.
16:00There was a side
16:01of him
16:01you just didn't
16:03want to see.
16:04He'd go from
16:05being Big Van Vader
16:06and trying
16:08to be Leon White
16:09and sometimes
16:10that was a little bit
16:11of a challenge
16:12for him.
16:14Pretty soon
16:15he just lost
16:15Leon.
16:16He just became
16:17the character
16:18and that's
16:19who I fell
16:20in love with.
16:20I fell in love
16:21with Leon White
16:21and when he
16:23couldn't leave
16:24the other one
16:24at all
16:25that's when
16:27things got
16:28pretty rough
16:28around the house.
16:30He liked
16:31being the tough
16:31man
16:32and unfortunately
16:34he'd bring it
16:35home sometimes.
16:36The one thing
16:39is he never
16:40went to Jesse.
16:42It was always
16:43me he came to
16:43but if I tried
16:45to leave
16:46it wouldn't
16:47have turned
16:48out well.
16:49Leon loved me
16:50to death
16:50but he loved
16:51me to death.
16:53You know
16:53so either
16:54he's in prison
16:55and I'm dead
16:56or you know
16:57what I mean.
16:59It looked
17:00like a beautiful
17:00life
17:01but you never
17:02know what's
17:03going on
17:03behind closed
17:04doors.
17:06Leon understood
17:10one of the most
17:10important things
17:12of our business
17:13and that's
17:14the psychology
17:14of it.
17:15His role
17:16in the ring
17:17was that of
17:18a really violent
17:18man but
17:19as good as
17:20Vader was
17:21he always had
17:21the reputation
17:22of being that
17:22stiff guy that
17:23could hurt you
17:24at any time.
17:25Hey everybody
17:26Gerald Briscoe
17:27here better known
17:28as Jerry Briscoe
17:29WWE Hall of Famer.
17:31A lot of guys
17:32bitched and complained
17:32about how stiff
17:33Leon was.
17:34If he wasn't
17:35stiff and snug on
17:36you weren't having
17:37a good match.
17:38When he manhandled
17:39you, you knew
17:40you were being
17:41manhandled.
17:41That's one of the
17:42reasons why
17:43Vader looked
17:44so impressive.
17:45He broke
17:46Sting's ribs.
17:48Nikita Koloff
17:48he ended his
17:49career.
17:51Gave Cactus Jack
17:51a concussion.
17:53On more than
17:54one occasion
17:55I saw
17:56young men
17:57whose entire
17:58lives were
17:59built around
18:00this goal
18:00of becoming
18:01professional wrestlers.
18:02When they saw
18:03their name
18:03against Leon White
18:04they just
18:05looked at
18:05their friend
18:06and said
18:06I don't
18:08think this
18:08is for me.
18:10Especially
18:10after Leon
18:12temporarily
18:13paralyzed a
18:14kid named
18:15Joe Thurman.
18:16Thurman is
18:17going to be
18:17coming in
18:17to big man
18:18Vader.
18:18Oh!
18:19All the power
18:20in the world!
18:21This is something
18:21that I've never
18:24talked about
18:26this to anybody.
18:28Vader does
18:29just what he wants
18:30during the ring
18:31the way he wants
18:32to do it.
18:32Oh!
18:33Thank goodness!
18:40Growing up
18:40the only thing
18:41that I ever
18:41wanted to do
18:42was to be
18:43a pro wrestler.
18:44I had just
18:45turned 20.
18:46This is the
18:46very first time
18:47that I had
18:47got to work
18:48for WCW.
18:49This is the
18:50biggest night
18:50of my career.
18:51I'm living
18:52the dream
18:53literally.
18:55I'm Joey Thurman.
18:56I was a
18:56professional wrestler
18:57for WCW.
18:58The biggest
18:59claim to fame
19:00in my wrestling
19:00career was
19:01the incident
19:02with Big Van
19:03Vader.
19:04Right before
19:05we're getting
19:05ready to go
19:05out,
19:06Vader goes,
19:07hey,
19:07I'm working
19:07you.
19:08It's going
19:08to be quick.
19:09You good
19:09with a power
19:09bomb?
19:10I was like,
19:10yeah.
19:11And he's like,
19:11okay, cool.
19:12See you out
19:12there.
19:14Introducing
19:14first Big
19:16Van
19:17Vader!
19:19I found
19:20the hard
19:20camera,
19:21done a big
19:21smile,
19:23get in the
19:23ring,
19:24and he does
19:25the Vader
19:25grout.
19:26I went and
19:27bounced off
19:28of him.
19:29Oh,
19:29all the
19:30power in
19:30the world!
19:32And I
19:33don't know,
19:34I don't know
19:37what changed.
19:41And this
19:42is the part
19:43that has
19:43really bothered
19:44me for 32
19:48years and
19:49the part
19:50that I will,
19:51there's no way
19:52that I'll ever
19:52find the answer
19:53to.
19:53This is the
19:54first time
19:55that I realized
19:55that something
19:56was different
19:56because he
19:57leans down,
19:57and he goes,
19:58you better
19:58jump,
19:59you little
19:59mother
19:59and we're
20:02going to do
20:02the choke slam.
20:03Went up,
20:04come back down,
20:05took a big crash.
20:07Oh, my goodness!
20:08And as I'm
20:09getting back up
20:10from that,
20:12it was something
20:12to the effect
20:13of,
20:14come here,
20:15you little piece
20:16of shit.
20:17He's just
20:17absolutely too much,
20:18man!
20:19The mood
20:20absolutely changed.
20:22He sets up,
20:22we go to do
20:23the powerbomb,
20:25I mean,
20:25the carelessness
20:26is obvious.
20:27Anybody can do
20:28it,
20:28look at that,
20:29move!
20:30Oh, my goodness!
20:31Right on the back
20:32of the neck
20:32of my shoulders!
20:33The way that I
20:34land,
20:35the impact,
20:36it was like a
20:37rifle.
20:37It was that
20:38pow!
20:40And I remember
20:41just feeling
20:42the numbness.
20:46Nobody's taking
20:47care of anybody.
20:48When he comes
20:52down for the
20:53pin,
20:54he's not even
20:54touching me.
20:56Whatever had
20:57switched between
20:59backstage and
21:00in the ring
21:00had now switched
21:02back.
21:03You could see
21:03that there was
21:04concern at that
21:05point.
21:07I remember
21:07the ref saying,
21:09holy crap,
21:09are you alright?
21:11I told him,
21:12I said,
21:12I can't feel
21:12my legs.
21:14Broke my back
21:15in two places.
21:16The trauma
21:17was so great
21:19that it almost
21:22severed my
21:22spinal cord.
21:25I was there
21:26and I saw
21:27Leon crying,
21:28you know,
21:28backstage.
21:29You know,
21:30I saw it,
21:30he felt terrible
21:31about it,
21:31and I know
21:32he visited him
21:32in the hospital
21:33that night.
21:35About all
21:36he got out
21:37of his mouth
21:37was,
21:41hey brother,
21:41you okay?
21:44And I unloaded
21:47on him.
21:48I called him
21:49everything that
21:50I could think
21:50of.
21:52He's crying,
21:53and I couldn't
21:54care less.
21:56Because they just
21:57told me,
21:57you'll never get
21:58in the ring again.
22:03Yeah,
22:04he would cry.
22:06It broke my heart,
22:08you know,
22:08because he never
22:09showed that side
22:10very often.
22:11and I would hold
22:13him and say,
22:14it's okay,
22:15baby,
22:15it's okay.
22:18I was told
22:19later that he
22:20was under a lot
22:21of pressure.
22:22He was supposed
22:23to be that big
22:23beast that nobody
22:24could beat,
22:25but if I'm working
22:26hand to hand
22:27with another guy,
22:28his safety is my
22:29responsibility.
22:30It just felt like
22:32having your dream
22:33put in your hand,
22:35but before you
22:38can close your
22:38fingers around
22:39it,
22:40it's snatched
22:42away.
22:44Word got around
22:45that this was
22:46what he did.
22:47Guys like you
22:48make me sick
22:49getting up here
22:49bragging upon
22:50the fact that
22:51you take young
22:52guys like Joe
22:52Thurman and
22:53break their back.
22:54Leon was a nice
22:55caring man,
22:56but you have to
22:56turn that side
22:57of yourself off
22:59when you're in
23:00front of the camera.
23:01And that man
23:01is lucky.
23:02That's all he got
23:03was a broken
23:03back.
23:04That's what
23:05they wanted.
23:05They needed a
23:05killer,
23:06and he gave
23:07it to them.
23:09You know,
23:09they had to
23:10play that up.
23:11Well,
23:11if you didn't,
23:12then what a
23:12waste of time.
23:14It just
23:14advanced my
23:15dad's aura
23:16of being a
23:17badass and
23:18being real.
23:19Although WCW
23:20embraces Vader's
23:22vicious reputation
23:23in the ring,
23:25his actions
23:25alienate him
23:26from the rest
23:27of the locker room.
23:28What happens
23:29when Hulk Hogan
23:29shows up?
23:30That wasn't a
23:31good thing.
23:31Talk about two
23:32people that didn't
23:33like each other.
23:35Hogan was the
23:35massive star
23:36babyface,
23:38and Leon
23:39was the
23:40killer heel.
23:41It's a marriage
23:42made in heaven.
23:44And then why
23:45does it go wrong?
23:47Egos.
23:49Hulk is a
23:50different type of
23:51wrestler, and
23:52Leon was not
23:52going to be Hulk's
23:53type of wrestler.
23:54My dad's
23:55matches with him
23:56were respectfully a
23:57watered-down version
23:58of my dad,
23:59unfortunately.
23:59I was told to give it
24:03to him, he was in
24:04later.
24:08Next thing I know,
24:09he got up.
24:12This is how these
24:13guys get up,
24:14they backstabbing.
24:16he goes better
24:19go wrong, and wrong
24:22he went.
24:23Egos are a terrible
24:24enemy of a lot of
24:25wrestlers.
24:27Vader's conflicts with
24:28other talent reach a
24:29breaking point behind
24:31the scenes.
24:32Paul Orndorff, who had
24:34retired from the ring
24:35because of nerve damage
24:36in his arm, had become a
24:37producer for WCW.
24:39They needed to do
24:40interviews at a TV
24:40taping, and Orndorff
24:42went back, hey
24:43Vader, you got
24:43interviews, I'll be
24:44there in a minute.
24:46And he didn't come,
24:47and then Orndorff says,
24:48hey, get your fat
24:49ass in there and do
24:50the interviews.
24:52Well, then that's
24:53when Leon stood up
24:54and said, you ain't
24:55going to call me a
24:55fat ass.
24:56And Paul Orndorff,
24:58bad arm, wearing
24:59flip-flops, punched
25:01the shit out of
25:02Vader.
25:03Bam!
25:05And then when he
25:06went down, he started
25:07kicking him with those
25:08flip-flops, one of the
25:09guys in the locker
25:10room said it sounded
25:10like you were slapping
25:11two dead fish together.
25:14Somebody had to take
25:15the fall for that, so
25:17Leon had to go, and
25:19that brought his WCW
25:21career to an end.
25:23That was the
25:23beginning of him
25:25making bad decisions
25:26and bad mistakes.
25:29That was the
25:30beginning of the
25:31end, pretty much.
25:38Following a
25:39humiliating backstage
25:41fight with Paul Orndorff,
25:43Leon White is let go
25:44from WCW.
25:46Leon was never quite
25:47the same emotionally
25:48after the Paul Orndorff
25:49incident.
25:50Everybody in the whole
25:51wrestling world was
25:52talking about Japan,
25:53everywhere.
25:54It took away from his
25:55aura of being this
25:56invincible monster.
25:59Vader's status as a
26:00free agent quickly
26:01results in a new
26:02opportunity from an
26:03old friend.
26:05I was in charge of
26:06talent relations in
26:07WWE, and I just
26:09believed he was a great
26:10addition to our team
26:11if we could keep him
26:12sane and healthy.
26:15All of us in the
26:16WWF office, we're
26:17thrilled.
26:18This guy's a major
26:18star.
26:19He's going to be a
26:20champion here.
26:22Who is it?
26:22Man of course!
26:23They debut Vader at the
26:26Royal Rumble, where he
26:27makes a huge splash.
26:28Then the next day on
26:30Raw, when I introduce
26:31him, it's time!
26:32It's Vader time!
26:34It's Vader time!
26:38The people are cheering,
26:39they're going ballistic
26:40because one of the
26:41biggest stars from the
26:42only opposition has now
26:44come to the WWF, and the
26:46fans are going crazy.
26:47They do a deal where
26:49Gorilla Monsoon, legendary
26:50wrestler, who was then
26:51the president of the
26:53WWF, Vader beats him up
26:55and lays out Gorilla
26:56Monsoon.
26:57That's the president of the
26:59World Wrestling Federation!
27:01Holy, I got goosebumps
27:02right now that this was
27:04the start of making the
27:06first monster heel of the
27:10modern WWF era, I thought.
27:14But Vince McMahon had no
27:17clue who Vader was because
27:19Vince McMahon never watched
27:21any other wrestling besides
27:23the WWF.
27:24And Vince thought, pal,
27:26let's call him the
27:27Mastodon!
27:29Called him what?
27:30Vince didn't get it.
27:33So this began a relationship
27:36where neither one of them
27:37got the other one.
27:39Beyond the creative
27:40differences, Leon fights
27:42to live up to his own
27:43reputation in the ring.
27:45Dad was injury prone at
27:47this point.
27:48Vader had a bad shoulder
27:49and needed surgery.
27:51And his weight had started
27:53to balloon because he was
27:54off for so long.
27:55He's going to get too heavy.
27:57It's going to put additional
27:58pressure on his joints.
27:59It's going to slow him down.
28:01And now Vince got upset
28:04about his weight.
28:05And Leon began taking it
28:07personally.
28:08Vince probably was on him
28:10more than he was on most
28:11guys.
28:12He didn't fit in the program.
28:14Duke University in North
28:16Carolina had a world-renowned
28:18weight loss facility.
28:21And it was Vince's idea to send
28:23Yokozuna and Leon.
28:26We're waiting them in on a
28:27regular basis and they're
28:28gaining weight.
28:29How in the hell are you
28:30gaining weight at the Duke
28:31Weight Loss Clinic?
28:33Figure that out.
28:35Then you find out they cheated.
28:37They're smuggling fried chicken
28:38into their dorm.
28:40You're going to eat yourself out
28:41of a job, man.
28:42Act like an adult.
28:44Then came Shawn Michaels.
28:46He is the leader of the new
28:49WWF generation.
28:52Shawn Michaels was Vince's
28:54anointed babyface hero that
28:57needed monsters to try to menace
29:00him, to try to take that title
29:01away.
29:02They should have had wonderful
29:04matches.
29:04Oh, no!
29:06But some things are just not
29:09meant to be.
29:10Michaels was a prima donna.
29:11He didn't like working with
29:13Leon because Leon was stiff
29:14with him.
29:15He was Vince's boy and Leon's
29:19was nobody's boy and ended up
29:21being a pretty nasty situation
29:23on both sides.
29:25Shawn said, you know, if you
29:26keep roughing me up like that,
29:27I'm going to get you fired.
29:28And my dad rolls out of the ring
29:30and has like tears in his eyes.
29:32You know, you don't upset the
29:33golden boy.
29:35Shawn's pissed off because Leon
29:36didn't always wash his gear.
29:39It was a regular discussion.
29:41God damn it, you've got body
29:43odor.
29:43People don't want to work with
29:45you.
29:45And Leon's offended.
29:47And Shawn Michaels was bitching
29:49about it all the time, every day.
29:51Crazy, isn't it?
29:53Body odor.
29:55Michaels had already buried
29:56Vader to Vince.
29:58I don't want to work with this
29:59guy, blah, blah, blah, whatever
30:00he said.
30:01Now Vader's a nervous wreck and
30:02he can't be Vader.
30:04And then the SummerSlam match
30:06happened.
30:07SummerSlam!
30:07When you go back
30:09and look at that SummerSlam
30:12match, it's a good match.
30:14We've got Michaels up in the air.
30:16Michaels from behind again.
30:17And again, a clip and a job.
30:18But there's a couple points
30:20and one of them, Michaels
30:22plants Vader in the middle of
30:23the ring.
30:24And he's going to go to the top
30:25rope and he was going to come off
30:27with an elbow drop and he wanted
30:28Vader to move.
30:30Well, either Vader didn't hear it,
30:32I don't know.
30:33So instead of being a professional,
30:35Michaels changes position in midair,
30:39lands on his feet right over Vader
30:41and then screams at him so all the fans
30:45can hear, I said move!
30:47And kicks him in the head.
30:49He's an unprofessional asshole.
30:51You're a gunless, no-good coward!
30:55You knew you couldn't!
30:56But after that match,
30:57that's when Michaels really went.
30:59And there you have it!
31:00Sean not wanting to drop the title
31:03to my father,
31:04he convinced Vince that he's not ready.
31:06He's not the guy.
31:07That day, yeah,
31:10more than anything changed him
31:13to a very angry human being.
31:15You'd think a guy like him
31:17would be armor-plated,
31:19but he wasn't.
31:21He had feelings
31:22and he was very sensitive.
31:26I mean, you kind of saw
31:27Leon's career
31:28just end in that moment
31:32as a main eventer.
31:33He never worked
31:34in that main event level again.
31:37Despite his demotion,
31:38Vader remains a star attraction
31:40until his aggressive behavior
31:42threatens his career
31:43and freedom.
31:46The WWF was big
31:48on international tours
31:49and the last thing Vince wanted
31:51was international incidents.
31:52All of the Middle East
31:53opened their arms
31:54to the ambassadors of goodwill
31:56the world over,
31:58the WWF superstars.
32:00We got this big,
32:01elaborate tournament
32:02where Vader's supposed
32:03to be the star.
32:04So we get Undertaker and Vader
32:06booked on the most popular
32:07talk show in Kuwait.
32:09The host had asked,
32:10you know,
32:11is wrestling fake
32:11or is that stuff you do?
32:12It's not real, right?
32:13Whatever.
32:14They say this wrestling
32:15is not for real.
32:17Is it like you act or?
32:19Leon took it to heart.
32:21Find your remark
32:22and your question insulting.
32:24It's not my question.
32:25It's somebody
32:25that people talk about.
32:26Does that feel fake, huh?
32:29Does that feel fake?
32:30Now that's physical assault
32:32and it becomes an incident.
32:34Why don't you come down tonight
32:36and before I kick his ass,
32:38I'll kick your ass.
32:39This is Kuwait.
32:40It's a foreign country.
32:41They don't have laws like ours.
32:43Okay.
32:44All right.
32:44Just calm down.
32:45Hey, we're not here to be insulted.
32:47I'm not here to be insulted.
32:49But at the same time,
32:50I'm back at the office in Stanford.
32:52And that's when I found out
32:53Leon's being detained in Kuwait.
32:56Is it just for the wrestling shows?
33:04Excuse me.
33:05Excuse me.
33:06I'm sorry.
33:06Yeah.
33:07You gave him a chance
33:07to respond to that question.
33:09This is the question
33:10I'm going to ask you now.
33:11I'd like to respond
33:12to the same question.
33:13Okay, please.
33:13Go ahead.
33:14They told me
33:15when I walked in there
33:15and listened.
33:16We went to the highest rated show
33:17in the history of the show.
33:19Can you go crazy
33:20and turn over the tables
33:21and jump up?
33:23Does that feel fake, huh?
33:24But the announcer
33:26was live on set
33:28and they did not
33:29go over this with him.
33:31He snatched the guy
33:32and the guy freaks out.
33:35Especially in a foreign country,
33:38you can't physically
33:39manhandle somebody.
33:40They can just keep you.
33:42They wanted to put him
33:42in one of those
33:43Kuwaiti jails.
33:44The company exhausted
33:45every resource that they had
33:47just to get him
33:48under house arrest.
33:49They kept his passport.
33:53Vince got everybody
33:54out, got on the plane
33:56and left Leon there.
33:57Now, I'm at home
33:58and I'm finding out
34:00about this.
34:01And it was very scary
34:02for me and Jesse.
34:03I had no idea,
34:04no communication,
34:05no nothing.
34:06I didn't know
34:06if he was still alive.
34:09And I believe
34:10he spent the next
34:11two weeks
34:12under house arrest.
34:15Leon's lucky
34:15he didn't get put
34:16in prison.
34:17We were lucky
34:17to get him
34:18out of the country.
34:18This incident
34:20really set things
34:22on a bad path
34:23because now
34:24when Vince
34:25loses interest
34:26in something,
34:28Vince loses
34:28interest in something.
34:29Following the incident
34:31in Kuwait,
34:32Leon's status
34:33in the company
34:33tumbles
34:34as his physical
34:35and mental health
34:37deteriorates.
34:38Leon wanted to be
34:39treated like
34:39the star.
34:41He thought he deserved
34:41more.
34:43And he may have.
34:44I guess you could say
34:45he might have
34:46older stayed as welcome.
34:47But he was getting older.
34:49Time ran out on him.
34:51He got to become
34:52too high maintenance.
34:53We couldn't get him happy.
34:55Couldn't get him healthy.
34:57When you play that hard,
34:58it catches up to you.
35:01Knees, elbows,
35:02shoulders,
35:03you know,
35:04just pain.
35:05Pain from his neck down.
35:07Going back to football,
35:09my dad was in an era
35:10of, hey,
35:11you got a sprained ankle,
35:12try these new things.
35:13They're called pain meds.
35:14And then,
35:14so now,
35:15fast forward,
35:16hey,
35:16I got a match
35:16coming up here tonight.
35:18Let me take pain pills.
35:19I was taking
35:20six,
35:20eight Percocets a day.
35:21Just to sleep,
35:22I had to take
35:23two or three.
35:24I was going through
35:25a lot of pain,
35:26and I mean,
35:26pain alters personality.
35:29Pain will change you.
35:31If you've ever been in pain,
35:32and I mean pain,
35:34you will become somebody
35:35you've never known before,
35:37ever seen before,
35:38and probably never
35:40wanted to be.
35:42Leon could be
35:44all over the place,
35:44with his emotions.
35:46When you get into
35:47chemicals and pain
35:48and all that stuff,
35:49that's just like
35:49pouring gas on the fire
35:51for depression.
35:52And I'm pretty sure
35:52that Leon had fallen
35:53into that.
35:55He's self-destructive,
35:57and it just got worse
35:59and worse and worse.
36:00The biggest moonsault in the world!
36:03I don't know anything!
36:04He saw he was human.
36:05Talking about one of the
36:06great monster heels of all time.
36:08He just couldn't handle it anymore.
36:09Maybe bitter time's over.
36:13Ain't nothing but a big piece of shit.
36:15A big, fat piece of shit!
36:18Those words came from
36:19Vincent Kennedy,
36:20McManus.
36:22So be honest,
36:23I haven't been able to give you
36:25what you guys deserve
36:27because I'm a big piece of shit.
36:29That's the way that Vince thought of him.
36:31He was a big, fat piece of shit.
36:33And he just got mad
36:34and went all the way with it.
36:35And it killed the character of Vader.
36:38His career was zilts after that.
36:41He wants some more!
36:42Come get some!
36:43Man, it's like what could have been.
36:48He was just
36:49browbeaten
36:51to the point where
36:53he lost his mojo
36:54and was trying so
36:57diligently to please everyone
36:59that he lost track
37:01of who he was
37:03and what made him
37:04Vader.
37:07Vader's career bottoms out
37:09as his issues spill over
37:10into his on-screen persona.
37:12Edge could not be in, Ed!
37:14Yes!
37:14He got it!
37:15It was devastating for him.
37:17He's not used to
37:18not being on top.
37:20He blew it.
37:21That's all I can say.
37:22He actually blew it.
37:23At one time,
37:24he was on top of the world
37:26and then he just
37:27started spiraling
37:29and went downhill.
37:32I wish he would have
37:33taken better care of himself,
37:35eating healthier,
37:36losing weight.
37:37I started realizing,
37:39like, hey,
37:39I don't need to be
37:40this 350-pound monster anymore.
37:42But for my father,
37:43that was always
37:44a part of his identity.
37:45I do think he struggled
37:47trying to figure out
37:48what the next 15 to 20 years
37:50was going to look like
37:51for his family,
37:52for him professionally.
37:54There was sort of
37:56a great unknown
37:57in terms of,
37:58what am I going to do?
38:00He was done.
38:01I mean, he was cooked.
38:01Nobody wanted to talk to him.
38:03I mean, he burnt a lot of bridges.
38:06A lot of bridges.
38:08It came to a point
38:09when Jesse went to college.
38:11I just,
38:12I'd had enough.
38:14I'd had enough.
38:18Leon, at that point,
38:19was pretty much gone.
38:20And, you know,
38:21I tried to get him
38:22to go to rehab.
38:23I tried everything I could
38:25to save the marriage.
38:27But by then,
38:28he'd stay in bed
38:29for three, four, five days.
38:31Maybe get up to drink
38:33and then go back to bed.
38:35He had been a diabetic
38:37for some time.
38:38And we did not know this.
38:40With low blood sugar,
38:41you need insulin
38:42to get back to normal levels.
38:43But my dad would just take naps
38:45and kind of power through it.
38:47He got an opportunity
38:48to go to Japan.
38:49Decent little payday for him.
38:51Well, on this particular trip,
38:53he had been drinking
38:54and levels were low enough
38:56to where he needed
38:57to take a nap.
38:59He went into a diabetic coma.
39:01I was the most scared
39:02I ever was.
39:03Because he's essentially
39:04on the other side of the world
39:05and I don't know
39:05how I'm going to get to him.
39:14Following a brief resurgence
39:16in Japan,
39:18Leon's health issues
39:19continue to take a toll.
39:21I could just see
39:22his health declining.
39:24I was having a lot
39:25of breathing issues,
39:26a lot of chest pains.
39:28We knew something
39:28was wrong with his heart.
39:30So I immediately set up
39:31a meeting with one of my doctors.
39:34Dad had congestive heart failure.
39:36And it was so bad,
39:37the doctor says,
39:38Haley and I,
39:38I think we need to,
39:40you know,
39:40operate pretty quick.
39:41So we were having
39:42a quad bypass.
39:43My days in the WCW,
39:44I was 417 pounds.
39:47The heart was going to be strained
39:48because of the weight.
39:50And the heart
39:50was basically worn out.
39:52We finally get him home.
39:53Unfortunately,
39:54Dad had a very aggressive
39:55case of pneumonia.
39:57I had to break into his place.
39:58find him unconscious.
40:049-1-1,
40:05whole bit.
40:06We had to put him
40:07in a medically induced coma.
40:12Jesse kind of was
40:13his saving grace
40:15at the end.
40:16We had three weeks
40:17of the coma,
40:18and we had a tracheectomy.
40:19So when he woke up,
40:20he couldn't speak.
40:22It was hard watching
40:23your father,
40:24who was King Kong.
40:26He was Superman.
40:28And now,
40:29not be who he was,
40:30mentally or physically.
40:33You know,
40:33my dad was feeding me
40:34at one point,
40:35and now I'm feeding him.
40:37Bull was so appreciative
40:39of how Jesse
40:41had stepped up.
40:43He really did the right thing
40:44by his dad.
40:46It's the day after Father's Day.
40:47When I walk into the room,
40:49the first things he says
40:50is,
40:51I love you.
40:52It's the first time
40:52I'm hearing him speak
40:53in about a month and a half.
40:55And I said,
40:58hey,
40:58I'm going to see you
40:59after work tonight.
41:00And I said,
41:00cool.
41:01Later that night,
41:02I get a call
41:03from the nurse,
41:04and she's like,
41:05hey,
41:05your dad wants
41:06to talk to you.
41:07And he's like,
41:07hey,
41:08I love you so much.
41:08Thank you for everything
41:09that you've been doing for me.
41:12I said,
41:12I love you,
41:13and I'll see you
41:13in a couple hours.
41:14Unfortunately,
41:14that was the last time
41:15I talked to my dad.
41:17Leon and I
41:18had an agreement.
41:19We promised each other,
41:20if that ever happened,
41:21that we would pull the blood.
41:24And that was my call,
41:25and it was the right call.
41:28That was very hard.
41:32Yeah,
41:32he,
41:33he lived a short life.
41:37He lived a full life.
41:39He got to experience
41:39some things
41:40most people
41:40can't even fathom.
41:43Unfortunately,
41:44it's just,
41:44he was 63 years old
41:45and too young.
41:51don't feel sorry for me,
41:54man,
41:54because I've lived,
41:56I mean,
41:56I've literally been around
41:57the world 10 times.
41:59I've lived a great life,
42:01and I'm thankful
42:01for the time I've had.
42:04Big Man Vader
42:05was the greatest
42:06monster heel,
42:07the greatest big man
42:09that I ever saw,
42:10and I've been doing this
42:11for 50 years.
42:14Vader's legacy
42:15in wrestling
42:15is for a period
42:16of almost 15 years,
42:18the most dominant
42:19big man
42:20in the sport
42:21of wrestling,
42:22and that's what
42:22people remember.
42:25He was a good man,
42:26conflicted man,
42:27who wanted to bring it
42:28every single night.
42:29No, no, no, no!
42:30Even though he was
42:32one of the biggest
42:32stars of the era,
42:33I just don't think
42:34he's gotten the credit
42:34he deserves.
42:35Fuck, you all right?
42:36And the lesson to me
42:38is that you should
42:38never let anyone
42:39or anything define
42:40to you what being
42:41a success is.
42:43Before he died,
42:44I mean,
42:45we would talk
42:46every now and then,
42:47and he,
42:48actually became Leon White at the very end.
42:53He felt very bad about how our life could have been
42:58and how it ended up.
43:00There was a lot of bad, but gosh, there was a lot of good, too.
43:04And it was a lot of fun to be able to be part of that.
43:13The reason I am so successful, my lovely wife, Debbie,
43:18so without her, I could be nothing.
43:20And to my little boy, someday he will be champion,
43:24because through him, I get my strength,
43:27and I am young again.
43:29I think he is the bar for big men in this business,
43:32and I got to be front row center for a lot of it.
43:36I'm proud, blessed to be his son,
43:37and I hope that he's proud of the man that he raised.
43:41As crazy as death is and as dramatic as this whole process was,
43:47there was beauty in it.
43:49The love I had for my father and the love he had for me,
43:52that never changed.
43:55The love I had for me, that never changed.
43:58The love I had for me, that never changed.
44:02Thanks for having me.