Congress leader Rahul Gandhi raised the caste census pitch once again, but this time from BJP bastion Gujarat, during a party's working committee meet that was held in the state for the first time since 1964.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Rahul Gandhi declares an ideological war from Gujarat.
00:23Doubles down on Congress caste demand.
00:30Congress makes its biggest reservation pitch.
00:40Congress makes it clear to its cadre it's time to correct its historical wrongs.
00:55Where Rahul Gandhi had said yesterday, we focused on forward castes and minorities while alienating the OBCs.
01:07The Congress presses reset again.
01:19Top focus on To The Point this evening.
01:37But will that be possible?
01:39Because that reset button has been pressed many a times over when it's come down to the Congress.
01:44All of that coming up.
01:45First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
01:48Hours to go before 26-11 mastermind Tahavur Rana will be on Indian soil ahead of his extradition key security huddle.
02:00External Affairs Minister Jay Shankar and NSA Doval meet Home Minister Ramit Shah.
02:06Bahu Gandhi pushes for caste census in India says Congress will smash 50% quota cap.
02:15Asks why Prime Minister is delaying the caste survey.
02:19Murshidabad tents in West Bengal.
02:31PFI front adds fuel to Bengal Vakfaya.
02:36India's mega deal for 26 Rafale marine jets.
02:4063,000 crore deal with France.
02:4222 single-seater jets.
02:44Four twin-seater jets part of deal.
02:50Putin invites ghost Modi to Russia.
02:53Prime Minister Modi invited for Russia victory day parade.
03:01China-U.S. trade war.
03:03China slaps 84% retaliatory tariffs in U.S. goods in response to Trump.
03:08China files complaint in WTOs as Trump tariffs a form of unilaterally bullying.
03:15All right, 64 years after the AICC meet is taking place in Gujarat loaded with political symbolism.
03:3130 years the Congress has been out of power in Gujarat.
03:34So the chosen venue was Gujarat for the Congress's top brass to come into a huddle.
03:39All of this at the back of back-to-back electoral debacles.
03:43The aim of the meet to chalk out the party's roadmap up ahead.
03:48Where the ideological bent of the party is concerned.
03:51And of course politically on the upcoming elections.
03:54An AICC session on the centenary of Mahatma Gandhi's ascent as Congress president.
04:03In the year that marks the 150th birth anniversary of Sardar Patel.
04:08Held in Gujarat.
04:09A state where the Granol party has been out of power since 1995.
04:15A summit high on symbolism drawing a road map for the party.
04:24Walked down by back-to-back election debacles.
04:30The agenda for brainstorming included alliance management within the India block.
04:35Organizational revamp.
04:37Election preparedness ahead of assembly polls.
04:40Challenging the VAKF Act.
04:42Strategies to counter Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the Gujarat elections.
04:47Rahul Gandhi has set the tone at the CWC meet earlier on Tuesday.
04:54Sources say the Congress MP admitted.
04:57That while they reached out to Dalits, Muslims and Brahmins.
05:01The OBCs left them.
05:03He had reiterated that the party should continue speaking for justice for minorities.
05:09Even if it invites criticism.
05:12On Wednesday, he elaborated on the Congress fight for social justice.
05:16How did the Constituent on the constitution supply chain?
05:19No one bought the whole thing in the constitution.
05:23The whole thing is that the whole thing must be one of two, three people.
05:25The whole thing is that, the whole thing is that two, three people should be second.
05:26There is no one in the constitution in this constitution.
05:27Never got to control that the whole thing of the universities should be RSS.
05:32Universities' Vice-Chancellor should be in the RSS, but the RSS and the BJP are doing this
05:41day to this constitution and they can only stop the Congress Party.
05:50Congress President Malik Arjun Khadge reiterated the party's demand for a caste consensus.
05:56He pointed out how Dalits are discriminated even today, pointing to a purification ceremony
06:02held in a Rajasthan temple by a BJP leader.
06:06After the leader of opposition, Tika Ramjulli, a Dalit, offered prayers at the shrine.
06:26Congress MP Priyanka Gandhi skipped the CWC meeting, but sources say there is a bigger role in store
06:45for her ahead of crucial assembly polls in many states next year.
06:52The big question remains, how was the AICC session in Ahmedabad any different from similar sessions
06:58in the past and how can it help the Congress revive itself?
07:03With Mossamee Singh and Rahul Gautam, Bureau Report, India Today.
07:10All right, before we cut across to our panelists, some of the questions that we posed this evening.
07:15The Congress ready to take head on what it calls an ideological battle.
07:19Rahu Gandhi gave the clarion call of what seemingly seems to suggest a Gandhian versus RSS battle
07:25and also to reclaim what have been or who have been the ideological gurus of the Congress,
07:31be it even Sardar Patel.
07:33The other question that we ask, Congress finally admitting to its historical wrongs like appeasement politics.
07:39Why do we question that?
07:41Well, yesterday, Rahul Gandhi had said that somewhere down the line the Congress was focusing on minorities,
07:48on the upper caste and alienated the OBCs.
07:53The other question that we ask, Rahul Gandhi making it clear that he's not backing off on the caste census demand.
08:00Also, once again reiterating that if and when the Congress comes to power, they will do away with the 50% reservation cap.
08:10How they propose to do it? Well, that's a different thing.
08:13Lastly, it's the symbolism, political symbolism is loaded because this meeting,
08:20the convention of the AICC, the CWC meeting is happening in the state of Gujarat after 64 years.
08:26A party which hasn't been in power in Gujarat for the last 30 years.
08:31Of the kind of commentary we've seen over the last 24 hours,
08:34the question we ask is the Congress clearly reverting back to the calm formula where Gujarat is concerned.
08:41Let's take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
08:44Joining me, Tom Waddakin, spokesperson BJP.
08:46He'll be with us shortly.
08:47Mohan Kumara Manglam, National Spokesperson Congress.
08:50Joining us, Rajot Sethi, political commentator.
08:52Ashutosh, columnist, author, political analyst.
08:55Rashid Kidwai, author and political commentator.
08:58I want to begin with Rashid Kidwai and we'll go back, go to our political panelists right after that.
09:04Rashid Kidwai, it's interesting for somebody who studied the Congress, you know, for decades now.
09:09How do you see this AICC meeting different from the other?
09:12And, you know, it's become kind of political, part of political cliches because the Congress seemingly has set the reset button way too many times by now.
09:23Absolutely Preeti. I think the choice of Congress menu is very interesting.
09:27It's in Gujarat after 64 years.
09:29I think somebody must have advised Rahul Gandhi, like, you know, when we play chess, if you trap, you know, king and queen, then, you know, the game is yours.
09:38So, therefore, Rahul Gandhi is looking at Gujarat with, you know, great interest.
09:42Yes, you know, if we can checkmate Amit Shah and Nalin Modi in their home state, then the Congress did not, you know, worry much about.
09:50But then it's not, you know, politics in India is not as much beyond, you know, a chessboard in a drawing room.
09:56And that is where there are a lot of problems.
09:58A lot of questions are being asked why Priyanka Gandhi is not there.
10:01I understand that, you know, she excused herself, she sought permission, etc.
10:05But the role for her, you know, there has been Preeti and you follow political development very closely.
10:12There have been over six months where Priyanka Gandhi does not have a role for herself.
10:16In the sense there is no state or there is no organizational work that has been assigned to her.
10:21So it sounds, you know, a little weird.
10:23In that scheme of things, the Congress seems to be very allergic to change.
10:27The kind of every time, Preeti, there is something we are told and I, of course, I write a lot that about, you know, the changes are being taken place and sources.
10:35But these sources are, there's something is there that's not, you know, happening between the Office of Congress, President Malika Arjun Karge and Rahul Gandhi.
10:43So here there is a lot of talk.
10:45And just one very quick point.
10:46You talked about that when Rahul talked about OBC, that the Congress has not, you know, committed itself to the OBC.
10:52It was not at the expense of, you know, minorities and all.
10:55In fact, Rahul Gandhi said that he will continue to champion the cause of, you know, minorities.
10:59So therefore, when you are talking about all communities, it looks, it sounds, you know, good.
11:04But in terms of appeal and vote catching ability, there is something missing.
11:09Well, you know, a fair point.
11:11But one of the, you know, reasons why Rashid Kidwai said that it's a little odd that Priyanka Gandhi hasn't been given, you know, an official appointment.
11:18Well, it would be odd what some would suggest because she's a Gandhi and yet has not been given an appointment.
11:24But I'll come back to that.
11:26You also touch on the fact that, and you are right, where Rahul Gandhi did say not at the cost of appeasing the minorities,
11:32but in one sentence, at least with the reporters who were there, he made it very clear that there was a time.
11:37And, you know, there is documentary historical evidence to that, and we'll play those graphics out.
11:41Where Rahul Gandhi did say that somewhere down the line we were focusing too much on the upper castes, the minorities, that we alienated the OBCs.
11:50And that could very well be, and we'll play those graphics out on possibly reflecting of how Indira Gandhi conducted, you know, herself where in the 70s and the early 70s and the 80s.
12:02We'll just play those graphics out if we can. All right, we're going to get those graphics back in just about a minute.
12:07But I want to cut across right now to our other guests.
12:10I also want to introduce the timer, two minutes each to our guests.
12:13There will be a timer which will start the minute your two minutes are over.
12:16Your faders will go down.
12:18I want to cut across now to the Congress spokesperson, Mohan Kumara Manglam, National Congress spokesperson.
12:23Mr. Kumara Manglam, the fact is it's, and I know you hate it, the Congress hates it every time you speak of revival, reset, but that's what you're looking at at a political outfit right now.
12:33And many would also suggest that that reset button has been pushed way too many times.
12:38Preeti, rumors of our deaths have been greatly exaggerated more than once.
12:43I don't think this is the reset. I think this is the reaffirmation.
12:46And a very interesting idea was discussed in detail, which was the complete empowerment of the district units or the district presidents in the Congress party as a reorganization and revamp, I would say.
12:58And as someone who's been, you know, for the last 12 years, I started as a district vice president and moved up the ranks in the Congress party.
13:07I can tell you that that one move would make a massive difference to our organizational strength.
13:13This is an internal party meet. We held the AICC meet today, 10 minutes away from the Sabarmati Ashram, which if you know history was actually situated between a crematorium and a jail.
13:23And it's with that spirit that this was conducted, which is this is sort of a two or die moment in a lot of ways for the Congress party.
13:30We have to commit, recommit ourselves to the values that we believe in, which are enshrined in the Constitution.
13:36And we have to go down to the ground and meet people and ensure that we're able to communicate what our standard versus that of the incumbents right now.
13:46So there was a lot of reaffirmation. You can read the resolutions that are out there in the public domain now.
13:51And there are, you know, long 12 page documents covering almost every factor, including, you know, more than what Mr. Gandhi talked about, which is the caste census.
14:00And we've sort of shown the way there with doing it in the state of Telangana and finding the results that we have.
14:06There was a lot more there also in terms of women's rights, in terms of the economy, in terms of the issues that the youth are facing.
14:13And much of that was discussed during the entirety of the day, taking the lead by senior leaders on stage.
14:20And then even common workers who were there in the crowd were actually called up to talk and express their views.
14:25So it was it was a good rejuvenation exercise and a recommitment exercise.
14:30And as far as I said, the organization's concerned, strengthening the district units would be would be very, very interesting to see.
14:37All right. I want to bring in Tom Wadakan into this conversation as well.
14:40Tom Wadakan, the fact is, you know, some would call it audacious, some will call it foolhardy.
14:45But having the AICC convention, the CWC in Gujarat is loaded with political symbolism like, you know, 30 years the party has not been in power in Gujarat.
14:56Rahul Gandhi has been doggedly going to Gujarat.
14:59If there's been one state he's visited the most ever since the Lok Sabha elections, it has been the state of Gujarat.
15:05That aside, today he also made it very clear that this is a battle of ideologies, Gandhian versus RSS ideology.
15:12And he made that call from Gujarat, once again, reinstating what he's said before.
15:17On the other hand, Tom Wadakan, one thing is clear, you know, whether it's working politically or not working,
15:23but the Congress seemingly sticking by the caste census demand and now even pushing that if we come to power, 50 percent cap will go.
15:36Priti, he has a lot of respect for the Constitution.
15:39And the first thing he wants to do is change the Constitution.
15:46That is the kind of doublespeak he indulges in.
15:51See, for minority or religious reservation is a no-no for our constitutional framers.
16:00He's attempting that.
16:03He wants a caste census.
16:06They were at liberty to do the caste census in their time.
16:10Now, there is an ideological spin.
16:15Good.
16:16There's a rethink.
16:17I mean, I appreciate that.
16:19But will it work, Priti?
16:21You have been watching the Congress circus over a period of time.
16:26We have attended numerous AICC sessions.
16:30Resolutions and resolutions are passed.
16:33The next day after the resolution, you ask any Congress person what was in the resolution, nobody knows.
16:39A voting is done supporting the standard operating procedure.
16:44Then the resolutions are not archived.
16:48You will find them in a Kabadi outlet very soon because there is no system of archiving there.
16:59What you have said in one AICC session is not necessarily followed in the other one.
17:04Rashid is a close follower of all this.
17:07And the circus goes on.
17:09Now, symbolism of Gujarat.
17:12I mean, the man does not realize he is dealing with a man from Gujarat.
17:20And he is dealing with a Prime Minister who is the icon in Gujarat.
17:25I mean, I admire his challenge, you know.
17:28Challenging the...
17:30I am sorry to use this word.
17:32He is the lion in the jungle.
17:34And there is this imposter trying to say, well, you know, I am there.
17:40And I exist.
17:41I am also in the race.
17:43Okay, your time is up, Mr. Vadakan.
17:45Sir, you are sorry.
17:46Your time is up.
17:47I just want to cut across to our other guests and we will come back to you.
17:50Bringing in Ashutosh into this conversation.
17:52Ashutosh, Tom Vadakan had a point.
17:55And primarily, I think that is why he was nominated to be the BJP spokesperson today.
17:59Because he spent way too many times and way too many attended the AICC sessions
18:04to understand on why, you know, we raise the question again,
18:09that will the Congress ever follow through?
18:11Because there is no consistency.
18:12You know, we can put out five resolutions that were passed, you know, in the last convention
18:17and they were never quite followed through.
18:19Why is this any different from those?
18:21See, Preeti Tom Vadakan is there because he is a BJP spokesperson.
18:26So, obviously, he will be critical of Rahul Gandhi.
18:28He will be critical of the Congress party.
18:30Nothing surprised.
18:31I am not surprised at all.
18:32See, the issue is that today Congress party is changing.
18:36And what appears today is there is a socio-political and ideological paradigm is changing.
18:46When the last time you heard that the Congress party is talking about the path to social justice?
18:50Have you heard it?
18:51No, I have not heard it.
18:53But is there any continuity?
18:55Yes, there is a continuity.
18:56Last time in the Congress party, Rahul Gandhi talked about the caste census, was in Kolar
19:00Rally during the Carnatic election.
19:02Since then, it's almost more than three years.
19:05He has been consistently raising the issue of caste census, caste census, caste census.
19:09And his party has done it in the Telangana, also 42% reservation.
19:14I know I am in the minority who say that the Congress party's manifesto, parliament manifesto,
19:22was a radical document in a way.
19:25The party is talking about that the 50% ceiling reservation has to go.
19:30He is talking about the reservation in the private sector.
19:32If this is not a radical departure by the Congress party itself, then what it is?
19:36Because this is the same Congress party, when the Mandal Commission was implemented by V.P. Singh,
19:41it did not take any stand on that.
19:43And look where the Congress is.
19:45Today, the Congress is on a path to find out a new social waste base for itself.
19:52And it knows that it cannot revive in North India unless it gets an OBC vote share.
19:58Because the Congress knows the upper caste has gone to the BJP permanently.
20:02It will not come back unless the Congress reaches to the poll position.
20:05Muslims, they are not going anywhere.
20:07They are firmly with the Rahul Gandhi and the Congress party.
20:10Dalits' movement is almost disappearing.
20:15But there is a certain movement and the restlessness among the Dalits.
20:19And the Congress party under the Rahul Gandhi is consistently holding the state constitution seminar across the country.
20:25Okay.
20:26I'll come back to you, Ashutosh.
20:27Allow me to bring in our other guests.
20:28Two minutes are over.
20:29Sir, your fader is down.
20:30We can't hear you.
20:31Apologies there.
20:32Rajat Sethi, to get you into this conversation.
20:34What do you reckon?
20:35Foolhardy or audacious?
20:36Because many are looking at it.
20:38For the first time, the Congress, like Ashutosh submissions there, is at least admitting what it did wrong.
20:44You know, contrary to what at least the Congress's way of going is to brazen anything through and everything through.
20:51And now there seems to be a realization that you have to rework things.
20:55The sheer fact that Gujarat elections, Rajat Sethi, are two years away.
20:58And already you have a Rahul Gandhi where Gujarat is the most visited state for him post Lok Sabha elections.
21:04So, I don't know, Priti, where to start from.
21:09But, you know, I'm not an expert on Congress internal matters.
21:12But as a, you know, consensuous citizen, I can make certain assessments on what I have heard.
21:17I read the resolution of the Congress party that came out of CWC.
21:21It had three points.
21:22It just smelt of decay to me.
21:26And a complete ideation level decay.
21:29There is no freshness.
21:30You still have, you know, one of the resolutions was that, okay, we need to go out and get OBC votes.
21:36Now, OBC is a big, you know, switch and MCB vote switch that you switch it on and votes will start showering on you.
21:43It doesn't work like that.
21:44And what about the other communities?
21:46I've never seen a party's official resolution talking about one community.
21:51What about the minorities?
21:52You have almost literally thrown them under the bus.
21:55You didn't even mention the Dalits.
21:57You didn't even mention the upper caste in the poor community.
21:59There could have been a very different approach of taking the entire country forward.
22:04What it required was, was imagination, imaginative powers to come out and craft a message, which is all encompassing.
22:12And here we see only a zero sum game between various communities of our country.
22:17You do not want to increase the size of the pie.
22:20You're only worried about how do I split the existing pie.
22:23This is not the leadership that this country at this day and age wants.
22:27And I personally feel that he is totally bereft of certain ideas now because he doesn't have the guts to walk the top.
22:34He doesn't have the power to call the Karnataka chief minister and ask him to table the report on caste census, the only state where he has successfully conducted it.
22:44See, I'm telling you, you carry on with this agenda.
22:48You will continue to see years and years and decades of Congress parties staying away from power.
22:52Again, I have nobody to guide them.
22:54But I just urge them to come out with certain fresh ideas.
22:57Do deeper level thinking.
22:59This surface level assessment and analysis is not going to take your party forward.
23:03Go back to Narsimha Rao's days.
23:05Pick from a non-Khan here.
23:07Rajat, your time is up.
23:08Your fader is going to be down.
23:09But, you know, you did say how are they going to.
23:10It's not a switchboard.
23:11But I would think the fact that they're harping on the caste census.
23:14They're talking about they're going to crack the 50 percent cap.
23:18All adds up to, you know, wanting to attract the OBC vote.
23:24But going back to Rashid Kidwai, you know, in the conversation.
23:27Rashid Kidwai, did you see a sense somewhere that the Congress, at least in Gujarat,
23:32is going back to the Kham formula because especially it was echoed by Mr. Khadge,
23:37then Rahul Gandhi, and then subsequently the kind of commentary that is coming in seems
23:42to suggest that it worked, nearly worked in 2017, where at least, you know, if you remember,
23:48you had a Jignesh Mevani who was representing the Dalits.
23:51You had an Alpesh Thakur who was representing, you know, the OBCs.
23:55And then you had a partidar like you had Hardik Patel.
24:00And do you see a similar form, especially in Gujarat coming through?
24:04They're going to bank on the old model again in going into the next election,
24:07because it's also a prestige battle for Rahul Gandhi.
24:10I think, Priti, if you look at, you know, 2017 election of Gujarat,
24:15it was very keenly fought, very well fought election.
24:18And but now after what happened in...
24:21Rashid Kidwai, I'm sorry, sir, I'm going to interrupt you.
24:23There's a problem with your audio line. We can't really hear you.
24:25We're going to come right back.
24:26We're going to pause that and we're going to come and pose the same question to you.
24:28I want to go back to the Congress spokesperson.
24:30Mohan Kumara Mangalam, do you admit that you have admitted to your wrongdoings,
24:34at least where this AICC convention is concerned and why I say that,
24:39and we'll supplement it with those graphics we wanted to play earlier,
24:42when Rahul Gandhi yesterday said that maybe at the cost of focusing too much
24:47on the upper caste and the minorities, you've alienated the Dalits.
24:51Because that all had taken shape at the time of Indira Gandhi,
24:55where there was a period, you know, Mr. Kumara Mangalam,
24:58and we're playing those graphics now over a course of, I would reckon, five, six years,
25:03where some seven states in India, including a state like Rajasthan and Maharashtra,
25:08had minority Muslim chief ministers.
25:11So, there is a sense that maybe, you know, there were historical wrongs that took place
25:15and we need to correct that.
25:17Because the shift of the OBC vote started right after that, you know.
25:20Of course, you can't just build in binaries though.
25:24You know, I didn't see the three-line resolution that Rajasthan is talking about.
25:29I read the 12-page document that we released today,
25:32and it wasn't partisan towards any one community or any one linguistic, religious,
25:38what have you.
25:39It just talked about taking everybody along under the edges of the Constitution.
25:43Now, as far as what sort of social engineering or social base the Congress is gunning at,
25:49I think everything depends on every state differently.
25:53We can't sort of take it as a, you know, for the entire country to be one.
25:58In terms of what we are going to do in Gujarat,
26:00I think we did this in Gujarat because of the historic nature of the occasion
26:04with Mahatma Gandhi Ji being from Gujarat
26:06and this being the 100th year or 100th anniversary of him first becoming Congress President
26:11and 150th anniversary of Siddharth Patel,
26:13both two of our tallest tall world leaders from Gujarat.
26:17I think it had less to do with the upcoming Gujarat election in two years.
26:21So I wouldn't read too much into Gujarat politics as far as this
26:26All India Congress Committee Convention was concerned.
26:30All right. Okay. You're great. You've given us 55 seconds.
26:33You have more to say. You still have 55 seconds, Mr. Kumara Mangalam.
26:37Okay. You can come back. You can come back to me.
26:39No, the question. Let me ask you a question. Okay.
26:41You have time to answer that question.
26:43Has the Congress somewhere down the line admitted its wrongs,
26:47that there was appeasement in the past. We need to correct it.
26:50We alienated certain, you know, castes, created those fault lines.
26:55I'm glad you asked that. Okay, Priti, I'm glad you asked that
27:00because the word appeasement is not what you used the first time you asked that question,
27:04which is why I didn't address it.
27:06Focusing on particular minorities or castes, depending on how disempower, disempower, disempower we feel they are.
27:18Mr. Mangalam, we're going to cut you short. We can't hear you. There's a problem with your audio line.
27:22There's a problem with your audio line, sir. I apologize. Problem.
27:26You hold that thought. We're going to come right back to it.
27:28Hold that thought. We'll give you some extra time there.
27:30I want to go back to the BJP spokesperson, Tom Wadukun there.
27:34Tom Wadukun, you know, the fact is, yes, electorally it hasn't worked,
27:38but sometimes idea needs time to germinate, and this is something that Rahul Gandhi is not letting go of.
27:44Neither the constitution book, nor on what he thinks has been the ideological impact of it,
27:51and now pushing forth where the caste census is concerned, as well as if we come,
27:5650% reservation is going to be broken.
28:00Preeti, this question of if we come or when we come or will we come is something that I will leave to astrologers.
28:12And some of the astrologers working for the Congress party told me it's going to take some time.
28:18Be what it may. The issue here is, I heard,
28:22he said this is not about the next election in Gujarat.
28:26The problem here is they are never fighting for any elections.
28:30They are fighting for some date, which I think some astrologers told them that they will come back.
28:37Because the fact of the matter is, you are holding an AICC session in Ahmedabad, trying to create a passion,
28:45trying to create a fight against Modiji and his team.
28:50And you are saying, well, no, we are not looking at the elections at all.
28:55So, this is the mindset.
28:57We are 24 into 7 election machine.
29:02We are looking at the next election, where it is happening, how it is happening,
29:06how is our team to be there, and our ideology doesn't change whether we win or lose.
29:13Our ideology remains the same.
29:16People of India know us.
29:18Because we follow the ideology.
29:20Midstream, we don't change ideologies.
29:23We don't admit mistakes committed.
29:25I mean, you have committed mistakes.
29:27Sardar Patel should have been the Prime Minister of India.
29:30I mean, then, now you have come to realize, no, well, you know, you should revive Sardar Patel.
29:38And I think Jairam Ramesh has drafted a resolution saying the greatness.
29:43This doesn't work, you know.
29:45You have to tell the people, look, we admire our leaders and not just wrap them in the dustbin of history.
29:54You need to work at that end.
29:56Freedom fighters are sidelined.
29:59And then you have this ideological issue.
30:02Time is up.
30:03Time is up.
30:04But interesting.
30:05But, you know, Mr. Wadhakan, you know, without the timer, what astrologers are you speaking to?
30:09And what is it that they are telling you?
30:10And are you trying to suggest that the Congress is only, you know, coming together where it meets our concerns based on astrologers?
30:19Well, I have this private information that comes to me from time to time.
30:23That astrologers told you that the Congress is coming to power, not just yet.
30:26So when is that timeframe for that astrologer?
30:29That I think will happen when our young leader becomes a very senior citizen.
30:35Hopefully that happens.
30:36Sir, he is not very far away from becoming a senior citizen.
30:39But…
30:40I am saying very, very senior citizen.
30:42Okay.
30:43Very, very senior citizen.
30:44Okay.
30:45Alright.
30:46We are going to let it be.
30:47We are going to come back to our other panelists.
30:49I want to get back to Ashutosh.
30:50Ashutosh, the fact is, you know, if you speak to journalists on ground, those who are covering Gujarat, there seems to be a shift where Congress is concerned on how it's approached an election.
31:01Of course, Gujarat is two years away.
31:03You have impending elections before that, one just about six months away in Bihar.
31:07But do you see, you know, one big question that is asked all the time to the Congress and especially the top brass is consistency.
31:14Other than the consistency in the rhetoric, right now it seems rhetoric because it hasn't worked politically, which is the caste census reservation rhetoric.
31:22Do you see consistency now in the top brass of the Congress?
31:26Preeti was, Mr. Talbihari, Vajmi and Lalkya Sadwani were consistent when they were changing from Gandhian socialism to the integral humanism and from integral humanism to other kinds of ideology.
31:39No.
31:40I think these are historical process.
31:41Sometimes we get very cynical and we live in the past and we always try to analyze BJP and the Congress from our own perspective.
31:49We don't want to see the reality.
31:51The fact of the matter is that the BJP could not get 272 seats in 2024.
31:57That's a reality.
31:58Why did not get and why the RSS organizer has written that the Narendra Modi can't win election on their own.
32:03So the BJP spokesman and others can live in a paradise if they want to.
32:07The fact of the matter is that if anybody is thinking that the Congress party will revive and suddenly will get 400 seats, that's not going to happen.
32:16The Congress party is on the right path for the simple reason because the Congress party, after a long struggle, has got clarity, ideological clarity that they have to stick to the secular humanism, they have to stick to the Dalit vote, they have to stick to the OBCs.
32:30Now, if you say that suddenly the OBC will come back to the Congress party in two years time and in UP they get 80 and 80 seats and in Bihar they get all kinds of, that is not going to happen.
32:40But the fact is, in 1984, like the BJP decided that they have to take the integral humanism path.
32:46And then they were on the rise.
32:49So unless you get an ideological clarity, I can understand the Congress, we are in the door, there's no doubt about it.
32:55Congress organization has been in the door, there's no doubt about it.
32:58But they are in the right path for the simple reason because today there is an ideological clarity that they have to take the path of mental politics.
33:06They cannot fight BJP unless they have a very strong OBC base, unless they have very strong alliances with the Dalits and the Muslims.
33:14If, can they crack it? I'm not, I can't say that they can crack in two years time or six months time.
33:20Like in 2000, January 2024, everybody was thinking BJP will get 400 seats. What happened?
33:27Right. Sir, time's up. I'll come back again. Rajat Sethi, you know, there's a fair point which Ashutosh is also saying because also now there's an understanding.
33:35Usually cost correction is a word we use very often with the BJP because they immediately go back and they cost correct.
33:41And, you know, we've discussed that ad nauseum after many elections.
33:45This time it's seemingly happening with the Congress.
33:47Even if you go to the, you know, the Kamandal period, the Mandal period, Kamandal was taken by the BJP, Mandal clearly by the regional parties.
33:54You had the RGD or the SP and the likes. The Congress understands that. And they did reflect on that.
33:59So ideologically, you know, it could be called audacious, but they have clarity now.
34:04That could be politically intimidating in the future.
34:08See, I think all of you sitting here have more ideological clarity than Rahul Gandhi has.
34:14The problem is he remains that symbol of internal contradiction within the Congress party.
34:22You move aside, you move, remove the Gandhi Parivar aside and allow Khadge to, being a Dalit president, allow him to rule and, you know, set the agenda, set the narrative of the Congress party.
34:34And I can tell you that is one way of actually regaining the confidence.
34:38You cannot be living under perpetual shadows of the Gandhis who, by the way, are upper caste community members and keep blabbering about all kinds of representational politics when you yourself are symbol of elite, super elite power circles of this country, which have been in power for donkey years now.
34:58You cannot just wish it away. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't suit him when he talks about underprivileged communities of our country coming in from a person who is almost a princeling who's been born with a silver spoon.
35:12That is where the contradiction is. Today, after Khadgeji, the next term, have an OBC president of the Congress party, walk the talk and move aside.
35:21I would want to see that Congress party. I would want to see rustic, grounded leaders rise up the ranks.
35:27Narsim Mara attempted doing that. He attempted giving a Bharat Ratan to Sardar Patel. He attempted giving a Bharat Ratan to Babasab Ambedkar.
35:34Look at the condition. His dead body became the target of politics of the Sunya Gandhi and the Gandhi loyalists.
35:42That is the level of anybody who comes out of these elite circles of the Gandhi Parivar has to face within the Congress party.
35:48Whosoever is left in the Congress party are those remaining princelings who are totally disconnected from the realities of this country.
35:55They cannot even frame an argument which is accretive, taking the entire country forward.
36:00They're talking about total revolution when their entire party wants status quo.
36:04This cannot carry on if they have to. Again, I'm nobody to guide them on this or tell them what course it takes.
36:10Rajat, the time is up. You know, I'm reaching the end.
36:12But what I will do is I'm going to give each of our panelists one minute each for your final submissions.
36:18I will give 30 seconds more to Mr. Mangalam because and 20 seconds more to Rashid Kidwai because they both couldn't complete what they were saying earlier because of audio problems.
36:28Mr. Rashid Kidwai, would you want to go first? What is the difference? Is this a new reset?
36:33Or once again, we know five resolutions will be passed, but none of them will be followed and then we'll go into another AICC session in time to come.
36:41Priti, there is a lot of contradiction on what Rahul Gandhi says and what the party does.
36:47You look at the talk about, you know, the OVC push, OVC thrust. You follow politics very closely.
36:54Can you spontaneously mention, you know, 10 prominent OVC leaders of the Congress party, particularly from the Hindi heartland?
37:01And in the Hindi heartland, the Congress as a sort of alliance or broad political understanding with Samajwadi party and RJD were basically social justice parties.
37:11They would not like Congress to become a, you know, flag bearer of OVCs.
37:15We talk about, you know, the direct, this thing, reached to this district Congress president, 780 district Congress president, all of them are hand-picked by the regional satraps.
37:27So, therefore, you know, to say that the Congress will benefit from this 780 district Congress president is just high on optics, but very little on substance.
37:37These are the, you know, stark realities of Indian politics. Rahul Gandhi must get real.
37:41You know, if you are Priti, if you are offered up, you know, a pepping hot plate of Kichdi, you would not eat from the middle.
37:49You will start from the sides. So, to say that the Congress wants to win Gujarat assembly election is a little tall order.
37:55What it can do sideways, there is an election in, in Kerala, in Assam, in Uttarakhand, where Congress can do well.
38:01But, you know, look at Kerala, Tom Vedakhan state, there is no clarity whether Shashi Tharoor will be our chief ministerial candidate or not.
38:07So, therefore, Congress needs to get small, small things in place. In Gujarat, they need a prominent Gujarati-speaking, you know, leader.
38:16Sir, time's up, sir. Mr. Kitwai, sorry, time's up, but you were making a lot of sense and possibly Mohan Kumara Mangalam was hearing you.
38:25Because Mr. Kumara Mangalam, Rashid Kitwai is somebody who covers the Congress and sage advice coming in from there.
38:30You know, away from the rhetoric, you know, the speeches in parliament where you say you're going to win Gujarat and the BJP will watch in 2027.
38:38Start with the smaller things and then maybe get to the, you know, the big announcements later.
38:45Piti, a lot said during the time that my audio wasn't working, I wasn't able to get through.
38:49I'll give you time, sir.
38:51Let me try and address the most of the things I've said.
38:54One, you were saying, Piti, when my audio got cut off, you started talking about how maybe we have said that we were appeasing Muslims or minorities and not doing enough for OBCs.
39:05We never use the word appeasement.
39:07And I was trying to tell you that maybe we focus more on those who believe are more disempowered or disenfranchised at the expense of others.
39:16And that's something that we need to correct.
39:18So there's a very big difference between focus and appeasement.
39:21Secondly, I agree with Rashid Kidwaiji on regional satirups in the Congress party actually having their say on district presidents.
39:28In fact, I publicly tweeted this out when Mr. Gandhi had the district presidents meeting saying that one of the most fundamental changes that we need to make in the party is that we need to have multiple sources of information aggregated to decide who that district president is.
39:42However, I'd say that when Delhi directly reaches out to the district presidents, you will be surprised to see how many people and how many regional satirups lose their power over them.
39:52This has also been the case I've seen in the youth Congress in our own party.
39:55So very transparently, I'm saying there are more than one ways to skin a cat, so to speak.
40:00I can't account for Rajat Sethi's hate of the Gandhis. He can go on and on on his diatribe.
40:05I know as a congressman in here, how Kharkeji makes his own decisions and has huge influence over the direction the party takes.
40:12So whatever he's talking about is merely a figment of his imagination. I don't feel necessary to address it.
40:17Lastly, to Mr. Tom Badakkan, who said we don't apologize for one of the most gastardly acts committed under the guise of your party, which is the breakage of the Bavari Masjid.
40:27Both Advani ji and Vajpay ji publicly apologized for it and expressed sincere regret for it.
40:34So please, let's make sure that you have your grip on history before you come out and say that the BJP never apologized or never changed his course.
40:40I hope I've been able to finish my time.
40:43Yes, sir. We've given you that 25 seconds extra, so you've got that.
40:47But I'd be damned before any political party on national television admits that they indulged in appeasement because then it's not political anymore.
40:56But I'm glad you accepted what you did, that yes, you favored a particular community or communities at that time who you thought were underprivileged and needed things more.
41:05But having said that, one minute, sir.
41:08Mr. Badakkan, final submissions.
41:11Well, I think Mr. Kumaramangalam is forgetting it was the Congress party who was in government and you had a Prime Minister who was from the Congress party.
41:20That is a fact to the matter.
41:23Now, who broke it?
41:24How it happened?
41:25There was an investigation that went into it and finally it has happened.
41:29Now, as to the question of Khargeji's freedom, extraordinary freedom he has.
41:35He has written by Jairam Ramesh, vetted by Rahul Gandhi and then finally he reads it out.
41:44He talks about every institution of India.
41:47He says he has great respect for the constitution.
41:50He abuses the election commission whenever he loses.
41:54He abuses the judiciary when a decision doesn't favor him.
41:57And then he says democracy is on fire, whatever is happening.
42:01For God's sake, when you win in Himachal, there is no problem there.
42:05When you win in Karnataka, there is no problem there.
42:08And when you get a favorable judgment in the Supreme Court…
42:14Time's up, sir.
42:15Time's up, but I'll complete it for you.
42:16There's no problem there as well when it comes down to the Congress.
42:19But one minute each, both to Rajwat Sethi and Ashutosh.
42:23Final submissions, Ashutosh, please make it.
42:26See, Preeti, I think the Congress, as I said, is on the right path.
42:32But they also had to take certain bold steps.
42:34And the bold step, many of those who were in the Congress party just for the spoils,
42:39they left the party very good.
42:41But there are many left in the party who should be chucked out and who should be given VRS.
42:45People like Kamal Nath, people like Dikvijasi, people like Bupinder Hudda,
42:49like others, they have no business to be there because they have played their innings
42:53and it's good for them that whatever they have done.
42:55So, I think Rahul Gandhi and Malika Arjun Khadgi both has to take those bold steps now.
43:03Secondly, the important thing is that at least Congress parties are admitting mistakes.
43:08I think since when admitting mistakes has become a sin?
43:11I think we all know in our civilization that admitting mistakes is not a sin.
43:16But somehow people are making fun of it because they have some certain ideology,
43:21they have certain past and where they should not be admitting their mistakes because they know if they admit the mistake they will be in jail.
43:30Okay.
43:31Sir, time's up.
43:32Rajat Sethi, one minute, sir.
43:34Your time begins now.
43:36I think, Preeti Ji, in conclusion, what the party was supposed to do was to read the writing on the wall.
43:43It was pretty evident where you were committing mistakes.
43:46You were taking the electorate for a ride and you were not ready to do that extra bit that is needed to win the confidence of the public.
43:53I feel that this CWC is yet again a failed effort.
43:56I still believe that the Gandhis will continue at the helm and they will be essentially be the blocker of everything that they want to talk about, want to represent.
44:04Now, Mr. Kumar Mangalam Ji says that our extra focus on one community, that is the definition of appeasement.
44:10And you will want to carry on with that, but there is lack of conviction.
44:15What I right now sense is that the Congress leaders, after so many defeats, have lost their conviction on any one thing.
44:21So this is why they keep changing the goalposts, they keep changing their strategy in every small couple of months of small defeat here.
44:27Look at what happened in Vakfbol. Rahul Gandhi and Preeti Gandhi couldn't even speak, primarily because there was no clear conviction on certain set of ideas.
44:35And I believe this is where they will...
44:37Rajat Sethi, time's up, sir. That's all the time. We've run terribly out of time.
44:40I appreciate all of you for joining us. Thank you there.
44:43It'd be interesting in times to come on whether the Congress comes through on the resolutions that have been made in this particular convention.
44:51We're going to leave it at that.
44:52Welcome back. Let's get you the latest coming in from West Bengal now.
44:55Politics has escalated over mass sacking of teachers in Bengal.
44:59The TMC is set to hold a protest today in Kolkata, which they held over the firing of 25,000 teachers after the Supreme Court's ruling.
45:08The TMC said teachers have lost their jobs because of a conspiracy by BJP and the left.
45:13And today's protest, TMC will organize protests across wards and districts in the upcoming days.
45:20Meanwhile, Rahul Gandhi has also written to the president seeking her intervention over the mass firings.
45:25Rahul wrote that untainted teachers have also been fired and the perpetrators must be brought to justice.
45:31Clearly, this issue now becoming a political hot potato.
45:35Surya Agni joining us live.
45:37Surya Agni, why is it that even after the Supreme Court has come out with its ruling, Mamata Banuji had criticized that ruling but said that we abide by it.
45:46What are the political compulsions of this political posturing?
45:50Well, Preeti, you have to understand that when 26,000 people lose their jobs, almost all political parties would try their best to jump into the situation and bring something out of it for their own electoral gains.
46:06Now, that's something that we are seeing in this particular issue where after the uphelding of the High Court's order by the Supreme Court, 26,000, almost 26,000, you know, teachers of West Bengal's SSC, that is the School Service Commission, they lose their job.
46:22Now, that, what we also understand is that, you know, that will be, a review petition will be filed by the state government over here, bodies have been already formed.
46:31But now coming back to the entire politics that's happening in and around this particular, you know, development since last week.
46:38The Trinamul Congress Supremo, West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banuji, she claims that all of this happened as a nexus between the left and the BJP.
46:49Why so? Because the first person, the judge who had, you know, passed the initial order almost two years back that the entire panel should be completely sacked was then Justice Abhijit Gangopadhyay, who later on became the BJP MP from, you know, from Tomluk.
47:09And why the left? Because Mamata Banerjee states that every time the state tried to, you know, get hold of an order which should have saved these jobs, it was a BJP, it was a CPIM MP who was filing PILs in the High Court, in the Supreme Court, making sure that, you know, somewhere there's, there's some kind of an obstruction in it.
47:30That was Vikas Ranjan Bhattacharya. This is the reason why Mamata Banerjee is constantly naming these two individuals. Both of them are eminent politicians.
47:38And it has to be seen now what happens when this goes for a review petition, whether it gets admitted in the first case, that has to be seen. Back to you.
47:45All right. Stay with me, Surya Agni, because there's this other, you know, story, which is brewing where the Trinamul Congress is concerned.
47:53And, you know, it's really not political, but it's very intriguing on how an ugly Trinamul Congress pat is now playing out right out in the open.
48:04In a video released by the BJP, TMC MPs are seen locked in a public fight within the Election Commission premises.
48:11Kalyan Banerjee is heard hurling abusers at a chore woman who he labelled, claiming, many say, it was Mahua Moitra he was intending to address.
48:22While fellow MP, Derek O'Brien, tries to pacify him.
48:25Amidst all of this, WhatsApp chats of a verbal duel between Kalyan Banerjee and another fellow MP, Kirti Azad surfaces.
48:32Kalyan Banerjee holds taunt on versatile international lady, once again seeming to target Mahua Moitra.
48:41Now, a sweet shop in Parliament is also in the eye of the storm, where certain MPs wanted a sweet shop open, but Kalyan Banerjee did not.
48:51Now, all of this is playing out right out in the open.
48:55Clearly, there are two camps where you have, at one side, the MPs, most of the women MPs coming together, along with Shogata Roy and Kirti Azad against Kalyan Banerjee.
49:07TMC MP Shogata Roy also confirmed that the woman MP in the question is Mahua Moitra.
49:12He further accused Kalyan Banerjee of unruly behaviour and urged the TMC to remove him as the chief whip for what he deemed was misbehaviour.
49:21I want to cut across now, back to Surya Agni Roy.
49:24Surya, you know, what's really going on where the internal crisis of the party playing out in the open, what's going on?
49:32You know, what's the behind-the-scene action? Can you throw some light?
49:35Well, you know, what's out in the open is that, you know, there is dissatisfaction between, amongst each other, the MPs.
49:46When I say amongst each other, there is some kind of a tussle between the MPs over various issues, and that is something that has been brought up.
49:52This is point number one.
49:53Secondly, it's very important to mention, and we have been breaking, we broke this news earlier, last, you know, last afternoon itself,
50:01that the Chief Minister, you know, Antenemal Congress Supremo, Mamata Banerjee, was very, very upset with the fact that such kind of an, you know, internal conflict or, you know, some kind of a mis-in-the-scene,
50:16spat, that got, you know, leaked, and it was turned into a very big controversy. Why so? Because, you know, the chats that were leaked were from the WhatsApp group of the Lok Sabha MPs.
50:29That means that, you know, someone had leaked them. Now, who was it? That is something that only, you know, if an investigation happens, that can come out.
50:36Even Amit Malviya, he had, you know, tweeted this particular fact, that who is it that got all of these screenshots out, because it can't happen, you know, from someone who's, who's out.
50:47All right. So, Riyagni, I'm sorry I'm cutting you short, but, you know, just paucity of time. But we're going to come back and revisit the story.
50:53Nothing political, but very juicy, where it's concerning, this fact playing out in the open.
50:57All right, with that, it's a wrap on To The Point, but we do leave you with the visuals that are coming in from across North India.
51:02Sweltering heat wave already in the first week of April has gripped large parts of India with several regions, including where I am sitting, the Delhi MCR region, experiencing temperatures which are way over 40 degrees Celsius.
51:15We're just in the first week of April. It's only going to get worse and hot. Take care.