11 April 2025 Friday Night Live
Watch the first 20 minutes of the debate being analysed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6kirkSwTg&t=20s
DOUGLAS MURRAY
DAVE SMITH
JOE ROGAN
Expertise: If you freeform for 2 hours on US foreign policy, you are implicitly communicating expertise. I don't know much about Armenian history, so I can't do 2 hours, or anything close.
If someone says: You do not have the rigor of an expert, the answer is not to say: I never claimed to be an expert. The answer is: What is an EXPERT?
Credentialism is dead. Douglas Murray has an undergrad in English.
Big things experts got wrong.
- COVID / VACCINE
- GLOBAL WARMING
- MELTING POT
- IQ RESEARCH
- Psychotropics
- Replication crisis in science
- Not moving heaven and earth to find the source of autism - although diagnosis has gone up with government money for autism
- Media bias - they are 'experts' who claim to be unbiased, and are ridiculously biased
- Feminism - supposed to be about female equality, had morphed into female supremacy, 58.6% in university for instance
- immigration
- welfare state
- depopulation VS WE NEED IMMIGRATION
- intransigence
"Mad in America"
A lot of podcasters come out of frustration with 'experts' - if you like your doctor, you don't go looking for a new doctor
When experts are faced with growing competition (me VS NYT or CNN) what do they do?
I come from the business world, where competition drives innovation - I wrote programs that let end users change the entire system.
You never badmouthed competitors, you positioned your strengths against their weaknesses, learned from them and would never try to get them cancelled by lying about them.
The media/political world is wild - evil compared to business
When we are at Vegas, at conferences, we would go to competitors booths and joke with them - like sports. VS Tonya Harding
Well, media/politics work to get you deplatformed
A lot of people in business had done sports - media, not so much
Murray was talking to Joe, not Dave - to deplatform competitors rather than striving to understand what gives them appeal and an audience, and work to win over their audience. We tried to win over competitors customers in the business world.
BOB IS A MEAN PODCASTER!
Hostility and contempt from Murray was fascinating - I think it comes from despair - we can't save or help people, so silencing them is the only course of action, either because I don't have a good answer, or because the other audience is too dumb and bigoted.
Anti-democratic of course, people can't choose their own podcasts but they can choose their own political leaders.
I didn't advocate for silencing other philosophers - I just tried to win over their audience.
Can you talk about places you've not visited?
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Watch the first 20 minutes of the debate being analysed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6kirkSwTg&t=20s
DOUGLAS MURRAY
DAVE SMITH
JOE ROGAN
Expertise: If you freeform for 2 hours on US foreign policy, you are implicitly communicating expertise. I don't know much about Armenian history, so I can't do 2 hours, or anything close.
If someone says: You do not have the rigor of an expert, the answer is not to say: I never claimed to be an expert. The answer is: What is an EXPERT?
Credentialism is dead. Douglas Murray has an undergrad in English.
Big things experts got wrong.
- COVID / VACCINE
- GLOBAL WARMING
- MELTING POT
- IQ RESEARCH
- Psychotropics
- Replication crisis in science
- Not moving heaven and earth to find the source of autism - although diagnosis has gone up with government money for autism
- Media bias - they are 'experts' who claim to be unbiased, and are ridiculously biased
- Feminism - supposed to be about female equality, had morphed into female supremacy, 58.6% in university for instance
- immigration
- welfare state
- depopulation VS WE NEED IMMIGRATION
- intransigence
"Mad in America"
A lot of podcasters come out of frustration with 'experts' - if you like your doctor, you don't go looking for a new doctor
When experts are faced with growing competition (me VS NYT or CNN) what do they do?
I come from the business world, where competition drives innovation - I wrote programs that let end users change the entire system.
You never badmouthed competitors, you positioned your strengths against their weaknesses, learned from them and would never try to get them cancelled by lying about them.
The media/political world is wild - evil compared to business
When we are at Vegas, at conferences, we would go to competitors booths and joke with them - like sports. VS Tonya Harding
Well, media/politics work to get you deplatformed
A lot of people in business had done sports - media, not so much
Murray was talking to Joe, not Dave - to deplatform competitors rather than striving to understand what gives them appeal and an audience, and work to win over their audience. We tried to win over competitors customers in the business world.
BOB IS A MEAN PODCASTER!
Hostility and contempt from Murray was fascinating - I think it comes from despair - we can't save or help people, so silencing them is the only course of action, either because I don't have a good answer, or because the other audience is too dumb and bigoted.
Anti-democratic of course, people can't choose their own podcasts but they can choose their own political leaders.
I didn't advocate for silencing other philosophers - I just tried to win over their audience.
Can you talk about places you've not visited?
GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!
Subscribers get
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00Good evening, everybody. Welcome to your Friday Night Live.
00:00:07We are going to go deep into a very interesting debate.
00:00:13A lot of philosophical depth in this debate.
00:00:16And the debate is Joe Rogan Experience 2303, Dave Smith and Douglas Murray.
00:00:21And this was a debate.
00:00:25And it's interesting. I did double-check this.
00:00:28So, I've done three shows with Joe Rogan.
00:00:33I've done a bunch of shows with Dave Smith back in the day.
00:00:35And I did a show with Douglas Murray, I think back in 2017.
00:00:38Which is not to throw shade on Douglas Murray.
00:00:42But we did a show together.
00:00:45So, I've actually talked to all three of these men.
00:00:49And Joe, I did three times in person.
00:00:52And then, of course, with Dave, it was remote, as it was with Douglas.
00:00:56So, I had a little bit of a chat about all of that.
00:01:02And this was a very interesting debate.
00:01:04And there's a lot to talk about.
00:01:08You don't have to have watched the debate
00:01:12in order to gain value out of what it is I'm going to talk about.
00:01:16You don't have to.
00:01:17I mean, wouldn't hurt, doesn't hurt.
00:01:19But you don't have to have watched the debate
00:01:22to get value out of what it is that I'm going to say.
00:01:26So, the question of expertise came up.
00:01:35I'm going to go real wide and deep.
00:01:37I've got a bunch of notes here.
00:01:38So, yeah, the show with Douglas Murray is 3738,
00:01:44The Strange Death of Europe.
00:01:49So, the debate is around expertise.
00:01:53And that's kind of an interesting question.
00:01:58And it's a big difference between American culture and British culture.
00:02:01British culture is very hierarchical.
00:02:03There's snobbery in the schools.
00:02:05There's a sort of insufferable superiority in this kind of elitism
00:02:09that goes on in the UK, a very class-based society.
00:02:14And the question is around expertise.
00:02:18Now, what I found fascinating about this discussion
00:02:20is that I can see everybody's point of view.
00:02:25I can see everyone's point of view.
00:02:28Now, I'm going to characterize these individuals' points of view,
00:02:34whether I get it exactly right doesn't really matter,
00:02:37but this is the general thing.
00:02:39So, Douglas Murray is saying,
00:02:41look, if you're going to put yourself forward as an expert,
00:02:45you need to have some rigor, some discipline,
00:02:47some standards, some strictness.
00:02:49You need to not to just do confirmation bias.
00:02:53You need to do a proper analysis of the topic as a whole,
00:02:58if you're going to put yourself forward as an expert.
00:03:01Now, the frustration that Douglas Murray had
00:03:04was he was talking about some podcasters.
00:03:06I can't remember.
00:03:08Jake Shields, I think, was one.
00:03:09There was some other guy.
00:03:11And he was talking to Dave Smith and saying,
00:03:13look, you're an expert on this, that, or the other.
00:03:16You talk about history.
00:03:17You talk about US foreign policy.
00:03:18You talk about whatever, right?
00:03:19And if you're going to be an expert,
00:03:23you need to have some rigor.
00:03:24You need to have some discipline.
00:03:25Maybe you need some training.
00:03:26Maybe you need to work in the archives.
00:03:28So, you need to have some,
00:03:30you can't just go and shoot from the hip
00:03:31and then say, you're an expert.
00:03:35And then, of course, the response to that tends to be,
00:03:39hey, man, I never claimed to be an expert.
00:03:41And that is, and to which Douglas Murray was like,
00:03:48well, this is like trying to nail Jell-O to a wall,
00:03:51trying to sort of get an answer, right?
00:03:53So, if you freeform have a debate conversation
00:03:55for two hours on US foreign policy,
00:03:57you're explicitly,
00:03:58you're implicitly communicating expertise, right?
00:04:01So, I've done one show on the Armenian genocide.
00:04:04I really don't know much about Armenian history.
00:04:06So, I couldn't do two hours on Armenian history.
00:04:08But, you know, if you're Dave Smith
00:04:12and you do two hours on US foreign policy
00:04:14and things like that,
00:04:14then you're implicitly communicating expertise.
00:04:19So, if someone says,
00:04:21well, you claim to be an expert,
00:04:22but you don't have the rigor of an expert,
00:04:23the answer is not to say,
00:04:24hey, man, I never claimed to be an expert.
00:04:26That's a cop-out.
00:04:26That's a cop-out.
00:04:27And love Dave Smith.
00:04:29Just by the way,
00:04:29I have a bias towards Dave Smith.
00:04:32But nonetheless,
00:04:34if somebody were to say to you,
00:04:37you claim to be an expert,
00:04:37but you don't have the rigor and discipline
00:04:39and training and credentials,
00:04:42maybe credentials of an expert,
00:04:43the answer is not to say,
00:04:44hey, man, I never claimed to be an expert.
00:04:48The correct answer is,
00:04:50what is an expert?
00:04:53What is an expert?
00:04:55Now, you could say somebody with a PhD
00:04:57in Armenian history is an expert.
00:05:00Me, who knows virtually nothing about Armenian history,
00:05:02I'm not an expert.
00:05:03That's it.
00:05:04Somewhere in there, right?
00:05:06What is an expert?
00:05:06And this frustration
00:05:12where they were talking about,
00:05:15was it Ian Carroll?
00:05:16And there was some other guy,
00:05:17I can't remember.
00:05:18This guy is not working in the archives,
00:05:20this historian guy.
00:05:21He's not the historian of the generation
00:05:23to which, you know,
00:05:24Joe Rogan and Dave Smith say,
00:05:26well, he never claimed to be.
00:05:28He never claimed to be these things.
00:05:31That's not an answer, though.
00:05:32So, if you're going to do 30 hours
00:05:37on, say, the rise of Nazism
00:05:39or the fall of Constantinople
00:05:43or the Roman Empire,
00:05:47then you are,
00:05:48this is the Dan Carlin argument,
00:05:49I did some shows with him back in the day,
00:05:51you are implicitly communicating expertise.
00:05:57And if you are communicating
00:06:00that you are an expert in something,
00:06:02you have to have some rigor.
00:06:04And the way that I view it,
00:06:07this is sort of my definition of an expert,
00:06:09an expert is someone with deep knowledge
00:06:13that surmounts or opposes confirmation bias.
00:06:19In other words,
00:06:20have you read opposing arguments?
00:06:22Have you integrated opposing arguments,
00:06:23opposing data,
00:06:24opposing quote facts or whatever, right?
00:06:26So, an expert to me is someone
00:06:28who has a more 360 view, right,
00:06:31of a particular issue, right?
00:06:36So, if you are going to put yourself forward
00:06:40as an expert,
00:06:42ideally you should work
00:06:43with some source materials
00:06:44and not just read what other people say,
00:06:46because then you're just an expert
00:06:47who's interpreting what other people say.
00:06:49You know, if I was,
00:06:50in my History of Philosophers series,
00:06:52if I didn't read the actual philosophers
00:06:53but just read what other people said about them,
00:06:55I'd be an expert in other people's opinions
00:06:58of those philosophers,
00:06:59but not the philosophers directly.
00:07:02So,
00:07:03the frustration that Douglas Murray had,
00:07:09which I sympathize with to some degree,
00:07:12and I'll sort of get into sort of
00:07:13when and how and why.
00:07:15And by the way,
00:07:15just,
00:07:16is this of interest to you guys?
00:07:18Do you,
00:07:20hit me with a why,
00:07:25if this,
00:07:25I want to make sure that the show
00:07:26is of interest and a value to you.
00:07:31Yeah, okay, good.
00:07:32I think the question of expertise
00:07:33is really, really fascinating.
00:07:35Okay.
00:07:38So,
00:07:39if,
00:07:42like Dave Smith does,
00:07:43you're going to talk for a long time
00:07:45about particular technical subjects
00:07:47like U.S. foreign policy
00:07:48or the causes of the war in Ukraine
00:07:50or the sort of
00:07:51Wesley,
00:07:54the General Wesley,
00:07:56the seven nations
00:07:57that were supposed to be,
00:07:59have a regime change
00:07:59and so on, right?
00:08:00Well,
00:08:02then you're claiming
00:08:03a certain amount of expertise.
00:08:04And if somebody says,
00:08:05well,
00:08:05you claim to be an expert,
00:08:06but you lack this or that or the other,
00:08:08the answer is like,
00:08:09hey man,
00:08:09I never know,
00:08:10I never claim to be an expert.
00:08:11It's like,
00:08:12but if you don't claim to be an expert,
00:08:14why are you talking
00:08:15continually about
00:08:16these particular topics?
00:08:19So,
00:08:19I think that's,
00:08:20that's a dodge.
00:08:21And I don't think it's a,
00:08:22it's a reasonable dodge.
00:08:24So,
00:08:25the answer is,
00:08:26what is an expert?
00:08:28And that's a fascinating question to me.
00:08:30A really deeply fascinating question.
00:08:33What is an expert?
00:08:35Now,
00:08:36in the past,
00:08:38I would say,
00:08:39as a whole,
00:08:40in general,
00:08:41that
00:08:41expertise
00:08:43used to be
00:08:47credentialism.
00:08:49You went to Yale,
00:08:50you went to Harvard,
00:08:50you went to Stanford,
00:08:52you went to Oxford,
00:08:53you went to Cambridge,
00:08:53you come out
00:08:55and you've got the
00:08:55four-point hat
00:08:56and you've got the cloak
00:08:57of all of that
00:08:59and you are
00:09:00an expert.
00:09:02Okay?
00:09:07But tell me
00:09:08if you think
00:09:09this is true.
00:09:11I think
00:09:12for the most part,
00:09:14for a lot of people,
00:09:15not for everyone,
00:09:16but for a lot of people,
00:09:17for the most part,
00:09:19credentialism
00:09:19is kind of dead.
00:09:23Do you agree?
00:09:24Do you disagree?
00:09:25Is credentialism?
00:09:28Well,
00:09:28this person has a PhD,
00:09:30this person is a professor
00:09:32and therefore this person
00:09:34is correct.
00:09:36I mean,
00:09:38not for everyone,
00:09:39but I certainly think
00:09:39in this group,
00:09:40certainly for me,
00:09:41I'll just be honest with,
00:09:42I view credentialism
00:09:44as a negative now.
00:09:45To me,
00:09:45it's not just dead,
00:09:46it's like
00:09:47anti-life.
00:09:50Now,
00:09:50Douglas Murray
00:09:51has an undergraduate degree
00:09:52in English
00:09:52and speaks about
00:09:53all kinds of topics.
00:09:55In fact,
00:09:56I saw a clip of him
00:09:57not too long ago
00:09:58talking about AI.
00:10:00I'm not sure how
00:10:01having an undergraduate degree
00:10:03in English
00:10:04qualifies you
00:10:05to talk deeply
00:10:06about AI,
00:10:07but
00:10:09so
00:10:12what is
00:10:13an expert?
00:10:14I think to me,
00:10:14an expert is someone
00:10:15who's read deeply
00:10:16in a topic,
00:10:16has thought deeply
00:10:17about a topic
00:10:17and has absorbed
00:10:18more than one perspective.
00:10:20Right?
00:10:21I mean,
00:10:21I did a whole presentation
00:10:22that was available
00:10:23at NFT a while ago
00:10:24called The Rise of Nazism
00:10:25and
00:10:27I read
00:10:28an ungodly amount
00:10:29of
00:10:29fairly horrible material
00:10:31at times
00:10:31and
00:10:32went
00:10:33with a variety
00:10:34of sort of
00:10:34understandings
00:10:35and explanations
00:10:36and
00:10:37oh,
00:10:42congratulations
00:10:42on getting your PhD,
00:10:43my lady.
00:10:44So,
00:10:45so I just
00:10:48did a little bit
00:10:51on just a couple
00:10:52of notes here
00:10:52about big things
00:10:54that experts got wrong.
00:10:56COVID lockdowns,
00:10:57the vaccine,
00:10:58if you get it,
00:10:59you can't
00:11:01get COVID
00:11:01and
00:11:02a lot of people
00:11:03who got it
00:11:03got COVID even more.
00:11:04If you get it,
00:11:05you can't transmit it.
00:11:06Turns out it was never
00:11:06tested for
00:11:07transmission.
00:11:08Big things
00:11:08experts got wrong.
00:11:09Global warming,
00:11:11at least in terms
00:11:11of the catastrophes
00:11:12that were predicted
00:11:13in the 80s,
00:11:14totally wrong.
00:11:15And if you look
00:11:15at all the models
00:11:16versus the actual
00:11:16temperatures,
00:11:17there's really
00:11:17not much in common.
00:11:20The melting part
00:11:21that you can just
00:11:23get a wide variety
00:11:24of cultures
00:11:24and they're going
00:11:25to kind of
00:11:25blend into one goo
00:11:26that was foundational
00:11:28to a lot of policies.
00:11:30Doesn't really
00:11:30seem to be happening.
00:11:31the IQ research
00:11:33that I was
00:11:34revealing to the world
00:11:35some years ago.
00:11:38The sort of
00:11:39chemical imbalance
00:11:41theory of
00:11:42mental
00:11:43unease,
00:11:45depression,
00:11:46anxiety,
00:11:46and so on,
00:11:46that you have a
00:11:47chemical imbalance
00:11:48and you take these pills
00:11:49to restore that chemical imbalance,
00:11:50that appears to be
00:11:51pretty false.
00:11:53There's a replication
00:11:54crisis in science
00:11:55as a whole
00:11:56and in particular
00:11:57in psychology.
00:12:02Experts have seen
00:12:03the rise in autism
00:12:04and experts are not
00:12:07moving heaven and earth
00:12:07to find the source
00:12:08of autism,
00:12:09although RFK Jr.
00:12:10is now talking about
00:12:11having that data out
00:12:12by September,
00:12:13October,
00:12:13which is going
00:12:15to be interesting.
00:12:16Although it's fair
00:12:17to say that
00:12:18the diagnosis
00:12:18of autism
00:12:19has gone up
00:12:20with government money
00:12:21for autism.
00:12:24Media bias,
00:12:25right?
00:12:25So these
00:12:25in the media,
00:12:27mainstream Western media,
00:12:29these are experts
00:12:29who claim to be unbiased.
00:12:30They're reporters,
00:12:31they're well-trained,
00:12:32they claim to be unbiased
00:12:32and I think
00:12:33fairly clearly
00:12:34it's pretty ridiculously
00:12:35biased, right?
00:12:36Was it NPR?
00:12:37I'm sure that they would say
00:12:38that they're objective
00:12:39and NPR has
00:12:41like no
00:12:41non-democrats
00:12:43in any
00:12:44positions of power.
00:12:47Feminism
00:12:47is supposed to be
00:12:48about female equality
00:12:49and has morphed
00:12:51into female supremacy
00:12:52in many ways.
00:12:53Almost 60%
00:12:54of university
00:12:55attendees
00:12:57are women now
00:12:57and there isn't like,
00:12:59oh,
00:12:59we've got to find a way
00:13:00to bring more men back.
00:13:01Let's just go
00:13:01into more and more women.
00:13:05Immigration,
00:13:06certainly
00:13:06what the experts want
00:13:09and what the general
00:13:09population want
00:13:10is quite divergent.
00:13:13The welfare state,
00:13:14solving the problems
00:13:14of poverty
00:13:15has not happened
00:13:15and of course,
00:13:18you know,
00:13:18one of the things
00:13:19that I talked about
00:13:21many years ago
00:13:22was people in the West
00:13:24were told,
00:13:24oh,
00:13:25there's too many people,
00:13:26you shouldn't have kids
00:13:26and then it's like,
00:13:27oh,
00:13:28we don't have enough people,
00:13:28we need lots of immigration.
00:13:29And there's this
00:13:32intransigence
00:13:32to all of this
00:13:33expertise,
00:13:33right?
00:13:34The intransigence
00:13:35is they just
00:13:36don't admit fault.
00:13:39You know,
00:13:40one of the things
00:13:41that is really
00:13:41essential for me
00:13:42in terms of
00:13:44credibility
00:13:44as a whole
00:13:45is
00:13:46I need people
00:13:49to admit fault
00:13:50and take responsibility
00:13:52for getting things wrong.
00:13:54Right?
00:13:54I mean,
00:13:55as you know,
00:13:55I've got a whole
00:13:56series of shows
00:13:58called
00:13:58I was wrong about.
00:14:00Now,
00:14:00I've made my apologies
00:14:01because if you want
00:14:04to be an expert,
00:14:05you have to be able
00:14:05to admit fault,
00:14:06otherwise you're just
00:14:06an ideologue,
00:14:07right?
00:14:11So,
00:14:12I think people
00:14:13are quite
00:14:13frustrated
00:14:15about all of this stuff.
00:14:22Yeah,
00:14:22you guys are,
00:14:23ability to process
00:14:25source data
00:14:25is my big criteria
00:14:26if you're an expert.
00:14:27Yeah.
00:14:27Either source data
00:14:29or in the philosophical
00:14:30realm,
00:14:30being able to make
00:14:30arguments from first
00:14:31principles.
00:14:33If somebody says,
00:14:34same,
00:14:35oh,
00:14:35and by the way,
00:14:36freedomain.com
00:14:37slash donate,
00:14:37if you could help
00:14:37out the show.
00:14:38I know I've been a
00:14:39little bit lower energy
00:14:40this month,
00:14:40but it was just
00:14:41a health issue.
00:14:42And if you could
00:14:43help me out,
00:14:43I'd really appreciate it.
00:14:44Freedomain.com
00:14:45slash donate.
00:14:45We're quite low
00:14:47compared to where
00:14:48we were last month
00:14:49and I really would
00:14:49appreciate your support.
00:14:54Somebody says,
00:14:55same,
00:14:55if I hear on the news
00:14:56experts say,
00:14:57I assume they're just
00:14:57trying to push a narrative.
00:15:01Someone says,
00:15:02he says,
00:15:04Dave Murray,
00:15:04I think you mean
00:15:04Douglas Murray,
00:15:05also criticized
00:15:06poor white Americans
00:15:06for being hopeful
00:15:07that Trump would help
00:15:08them as if they
00:15:09had any choices.
00:15:10Yeah.
00:15:11Somebody says,
00:15:12trust me,
00:15:13bro,
00:15:13versus my university
00:15:14trusts me,
00:15:14bro.
00:15:15Either way,
00:15:15it doesn't prove
00:15:16actual understanding.
00:15:17Predictions,
00:15:17track record seems
00:15:18to be the way forward.
00:15:19These experts' failures
00:15:25are almost always
00:15:25in trying to prove
00:15:26leftist narratives.
00:15:28Yeah.
00:15:28Yeah.
00:15:29Credentialism is
00:15:30important,
00:15:30right?
00:15:32People in higher ed
00:15:34cannot admit wrong
00:15:35unless it's in submission
00:15:36to someone else
00:15:36with a sparkly PhD.
00:15:38Yeah.
00:15:39And so,
00:15:40where are the error
00:15:41corrections,
00:15:42right?
00:15:43Expertise means
00:15:44that you have to have
00:15:45an error correction.
00:15:46Other things that I
00:15:47thought about
00:15:48with terms of
00:15:48experts got wrong.
00:15:50People have real big
00:15:51questions about
00:15:52the food pyramid.
00:15:53The idea that
00:15:54fat causes fat
00:15:55was not very well
00:16:00studied in many ways.
00:16:00Lots of doubts
00:16:01about statins.
00:16:02And of course,
00:16:03post-COVID and
00:16:04post-COVID vaccine,
00:16:07there's a lot of people
00:16:07who have massive amounts
00:16:08of skepticism about
00:16:09what in general
00:16:11is considered
00:16:12factual or true
00:16:13in medicine as a whole,
00:16:18right?
00:16:18And particularly in diet,
00:16:19right?
00:16:19Because the problems
00:16:23of obesity,
00:16:24particularly in America,
00:16:25are so extraordinarily high
00:16:26that there has to be
00:16:28some real problems
00:16:30and issues about this stuff.
00:16:34And I had Robert Whittaker
00:16:35on the show,
00:16:36twice I think,
00:16:37really great.
00:16:38You should read the book
00:16:38Mad in America.
00:16:39I think there's a revised
00:16:40version out now,
00:16:41a fantastic book.
00:16:42And the basic thesis
00:16:43is that if all
00:16:46of these psychotropics
00:16:46are supposed to help
00:16:48with mental illness,
00:16:48then why is mental illness
00:16:49getting worse and worse
00:16:50as time goes forward?
00:16:52Right?
00:16:53I mean,
00:16:53if you have something
00:16:54like insulin
00:16:55supposed to help
00:16:55with people with diabetes,
00:16:58then as insulin spreads,
00:16:59issues with diabetes
00:17:00should go down.
00:17:00If you have an antibiotic
00:17:02that's very effective
00:17:02against infection,
00:17:03then as that spreads
00:17:04and is used,
00:17:04infections should go down,
00:17:05people should be healthier,
00:17:06and so on,
00:17:07right?
00:17:09So,
00:17:10our people.
00:17:15Oh yes,
00:17:16so you want to look
00:17:17at 3175,
00:17:19Myths and Facts
00:17:19about Antidepressants.
00:17:21So,
00:17:22what I want to know
00:17:26with people
00:17:27who are credentialed
00:17:30or they have credentialism,
00:17:32it's like,
00:17:32okay,
00:17:33so what is the price
00:17:35of being raw?
00:17:37what is the price
00:17:40of being raw?
00:17:42That's an interesting
00:17:43question,
00:17:43right?
00:17:47Thank you for your tips.
00:17:49It's an interesting
00:17:50question.
00:17:51And if somebody
00:17:52doesn't pay any particular
00:17:53price for being wrong,
00:17:56you know,
00:17:56I mean,
00:17:57what happened to all
00:17:57the people who got
00:17:58the Iraq war wrong?
00:17:59What happened to all
00:18:00the people
00:18:00who were of the opinion
00:18:02or the perspective
00:18:03that
00:18:05going into Afghanistan
00:18:07was going to create
00:18:08the Jeffersonian
00:18:08paradise of democracy
00:18:10and freedom?
00:18:18So,
00:18:20that's
00:18:24a big,
00:18:25big question.
00:18:26All right.
00:18:28Now,
00:18:29the credentialed class
00:18:30is having a big problem
00:18:31with the podcasting class.
00:18:34Of course.
00:18:35I mean,
00:18:36this is the aristocracy
00:18:37versus the bourgeoisie.
00:18:39Those who have
00:18:40a kind of privilege
00:18:42versus those who have
00:18:43particular talents.
00:18:45Right?
00:18:45So,
00:18:46the aristocracy
00:18:47inherited all the land
00:18:48largely by being
00:18:49very efficient murderers
00:18:50on behalf of the king.
00:18:51And then,
00:18:55the bourgeoisie
00:18:56came along
00:18:57and started to make money
00:18:58through capital
00:18:58and investment
00:18:59and businesses
00:19:00and factories
00:19:00and so on,
00:19:01right?
00:19:01Oh my God,
00:19:02the upstarts,
00:19:03right?
00:19:05So,
00:19:06why are people
00:19:08going to podcasters?
00:19:10Why are they going
00:19:11to podcasters?
00:19:12Well,
00:19:13if you like your doctor,
00:19:15if your doctor's good,
00:19:16your health is good
00:19:16and,
00:19:17you know,
00:19:17you get good advice,
00:19:18you don't go looking
00:19:19for a new doctor.
00:19:20So,
00:19:23I think a lot
00:19:24of podcasters,
00:19:25a lot of the audience
00:19:26through podcasts
00:19:27comes out of frustration
00:19:28with the experts.
00:19:30Have the experts
00:19:31been accurate
00:19:32and right
00:19:32and self-critical enough
00:19:34and self-policing enough
00:19:35to maintain
00:19:37or,
00:19:39to win over
00:19:39and maintain
00:19:40the trust
00:19:41of the audience?
00:19:47And I think
00:19:48the answer to that
00:19:49is no.
00:19:50the experts,
00:19:52the credentialed classes,
00:19:53the professional
00:19:53intellectual classes
00:19:55have not
00:19:56had the rigor,
00:19:59the objectivity,
00:19:59the incentives,
00:20:01the motivations,
00:20:02the self-criticism
00:20:03to maintain
00:20:05the general population's
00:20:09trust
00:20:10in their expertise.
00:20:12So,
00:20:12you can look at
00:20:13Martin Luther's
00:20:14criticism
00:20:14of the Catholic Church
00:20:16in the 15th century
00:20:17in the Reformation
00:20:18where the Catholic Church
00:20:20was selling
00:20:21these indulgences
00:20:22where you could
00:20:22buy your way
00:20:24out of purgatory
00:20:25by giving money
00:20:26to the priest
00:20:27who would then
00:20:27take a thousand years
00:20:29off your time
00:20:29in purgatory.
00:20:30You could end up
00:20:30doing this ahead of time.
00:20:31I'm going to go
00:20:32have a naughty
00:20:32weekend with my
00:20:33mistress.
00:20:34Here's five gold coins
00:20:35and I'll be fine,
00:20:37right?
00:20:37And he got
00:20:38kind of grossed out
00:20:38by that.
00:20:40And so,
00:20:40there was a split,
00:20:41right?
00:20:42A split from
00:20:42traditional Catholicism
00:20:44to the various
00:20:45denominations of
00:20:45Protestantism.
00:20:46So,
00:20:49why are people
00:20:50going to podcasters?
00:20:55You have a
00:20:57competition issue
00:20:58if you are
00:21:01a credentialed
00:21:02person,
00:21:04a quote expert,
00:21:05a credentialed
00:21:06person.
00:21:06You have a
00:21:07credibility issue.
00:21:08The other thing,
00:21:09too,
00:21:09is that they don't
00:21:09tend to criticize
00:21:10each other very much.
00:21:13You know,
00:21:14one thing that's true
00:21:15in the sort of
00:21:15alternative media space
00:21:16is a lot of
00:21:17cross-pollination
00:21:17and cross-criticism,
00:21:19which is,
00:21:20you know,
00:21:20a lot of competition,
00:21:21a lot of people
00:21:22taking digs at each
00:21:24other,
00:21:24you know,
00:21:24sometimes fairly,
00:21:25sometimes unfairly,
00:21:26but it's a brawl,
00:21:26brawl space,
00:21:27right?
00:21:29Whereas the,
00:21:30the credentialed
00:21:33classes don't tend
00:21:34to criticize
00:21:35people that much.
00:21:42So,
00:21:43this is the big
00:21:48question to me.
00:21:51So,
00:21:52when experts
00:21:53are faced
00:21:55with growing
00:21:55competition
00:21:56of
00:21:58alternative media,
00:22:01which is,
00:22:02I'm going to say
00:22:02experts versus
00:22:03podcasters,
00:22:04just because it's,
00:22:05I just need a
00:22:06common phrase
00:22:06for the two.
00:22:07Experts are those
00:22:08generally with
00:22:08credentials
00:22:09and social
00:22:11support
00:22:11for their
00:22:12perspectives
00:22:12and the
00:22:13podcasters are,
00:22:14you know,
00:22:14the Wild West,
00:22:15the Freeformists,
00:22:15the Freeballers,
00:22:16and so on,
00:22:16right?
00:22:20So,
00:22:20when experts
00:22:24are faced
00:22:25with growing
00:22:25competition,
00:22:26what do they do?
00:22:27I mean,
00:22:27I remember
00:22:27many years ago
00:22:28showing my
00:22:29daughter,
00:22:29like,
00:22:30I do a tweet
00:22:30and here's
00:22:31how many people
00:22:31like and
00:22:32read and
00:22:34share it,
00:22:35and then we
00:22:35went to this,
00:22:36we went to CNN,
00:22:37we went to the
00:22:37New York Times
00:22:37and so on,
00:22:38and here's their
00:22:38tweets,
00:22:39and,
00:22:39you know,
00:22:39it was
00:22:40night and day,
00:22:41right?
00:22:46So,
00:22:46when experts
00:22:47are faced
00:22:48with growing
00:22:48competition,
00:22:49what do they do?
00:22:50What do they do?
00:22:53Now,
00:22:55two things
00:22:55that heavily
00:22:56influenced me
00:22:57in my life,
00:22:58the business world
00:22:58and the sports world.
00:23:01I was very big
00:23:01into sports,
00:23:02played a lot
00:23:02of team sports
00:23:03when I was younger,
00:23:05I had water polo
00:23:05team,
00:23:06swimming team,
00:23:07cross-country
00:23:07running team,
00:23:08although that's
00:23:08more solo.
00:23:09I was both
00:23:10singles and doubles,
00:23:11tennis,
00:23:13volleyball,
00:23:14soccer,
00:23:15a lot of team sports,
00:23:17and I would play
00:23:18several times a week.
00:23:21I'm not a morning
00:23:22person,
00:23:22I would get up
00:23:23and practice
00:23:24swimming,
00:23:25right?
00:23:25So,
00:23:26I did
00:23:26a fairly
00:23:28massive amount
00:23:29of sports
00:23:31when I was
00:23:34younger.
00:23:35Now,
00:23:36sports are really
00:23:37important because
00:23:37you don't
00:23:39sabotage,
00:23:40right?
00:23:41I mean,
00:23:42I remember
00:23:42seeing,
00:23:43there was an episode,
00:23:44a couple of episodes
00:23:45of the show,
00:23:46Glee,
00:23:47where I think
00:23:48the cheerleaders
00:23:48were sabotaging
00:23:49another cheerleader
00:23:51by telling her
00:23:52she had to stop
00:23:53eating or couldn't
00:23:54eat and then she
00:23:54had no energy
00:23:55to compete
00:23:56with them.
00:24:00So,
00:24:02when you're
00:24:05on a sports
00:24:05team and
00:24:06somebody comes
00:24:07along who's
00:24:07really good,
00:24:08it tends to
00:24:09up your game.
00:24:10They've done
00:24:10studies on this
00:24:11that runners
00:24:11run faster
00:24:12when somebody's
00:24:12running slightly
00:24:13faster than
00:24:13them.
00:24:13you get
00:24:14better
00:24:15with
00:24:15competition.
00:24:17So,
00:24:18I learned
00:24:19a lot about
00:24:20competition
00:24:20from doing
00:24:22huge amounts
00:24:23of sports
00:24:24and I still
00:24:24do fairly
00:24:25significant
00:24:25amounts of
00:24:26sports.
00:24:28So,
00:24:29you don't
00:24:33sabotage,
00:24:34right?
00:24:35You certainly
00:24:36don't sabotage
00:24:36on your own
00:24:37team and you
00:24:37don't sabotage
00:24:38the other
00:24:38team,
00:24:38right?
00:24:38So,
00:24:41in the
00:24:43business world,
00:24:43there's
00:24:44competition and
00:24:45competition drives
00:24:46innovation,
00:24:47right?
00:24:48So,
00:24:49I mean,
00:24:49because our
00:24:50customers always
00:24:50wanted to change
00:24:51the system,
00:24:52I wrote code
00:24:53that allowed the
00:24:54program to change
00:24:54itself.
00:24:55So,
00:24:55they just hand
00:24:56over the
00:24:56program,
00:24:57let the
00:24:57customers change
00:24:57the system as
00:24:58they saw fit,
00:24:59right?
00:24:59This gave us a
00:25:00huge competitive
00:25:00advantage.
00:25:02And I learned a
00:25:03lot about,
00:25:04because I did a
00:25:05lot of sales
00:25:05and marketing,
00:25:06so I learned a
00:25:06lot about how
00:25:06you deal with
00:25:07competition when
00:25:08you're talking
00:25:08to clients,
00:25:08potential clients,
00:25:09RFPs,
00:25:10requests for
00:25:10proposals,
00:25:11you go down
00:25:11and give a
00:25:11presentation.
00:25:12So,
00:25:13you don't
00:25:15badmouth your
00:25:15competitors,
00:25:16you position your
00:25:17strengths against
00:25:17their weaknesses,
00:25:18you admit where
00:25:19their weaknesses
00:25:20are stronger,
00:25:21where their
00:25:22strengths are
00:25:22better than
00:25:22yours,
00:25:24and you would
00:25:24learn from
00:25:25them,
00:25:25you would try
00:25:26to,
00:25:26you'd go to
00:25:27their website,
00:25:27you'd look at
00:25:28their demos,
00:25:28you wouldn't
00:25:29cheat and pretend
00:25:30to be a
00:25:30customer,
00:25:31but you would
00:25:31try and figure
00:25:31out what they
00:25:32were doing,
00:25:34and so on,
00:25:34right?
00:25:34So,
00:25:38you don't
00:25:39badmouth your
00:25:39competitors,
00:25:40you say,
00:25:41here's where our
00:25:41strength is,
00:25:42they do have
00:25:43these strengths
00:25:43to be fair,
00:25:44so that you
00:25:44sound,
00:25:44you're objective,
00:25:46and you
00:25:47learn from
00:25:47them,
00:25:48right?
00:25:49And it
00:25:50actually is,
00:25:51it's fierce,
00:25:55but friendly,
00:25:56if that makes
00:25:57sense,
00:25:58fierce,
00:25:58but good
00:25:58nature,
00:25:58like sports,
00:25:59sports are
00:26:00fierce,
00:26:00but good
00:26:00nature,
00:26:00right?
00:26:01You try
00:26:01to win,
00:26:01and then
00:26:01you shake
00:26:02hands afterwards,
00:26:03right?
00:26:05Now,
00:26:08and because
00:26:08I came from
00:26:09the sports
00:26:09world,
00:26:10and I came
00:26:11from the
00:26:11business
00:26:11world,
00:26:12entering into
00:26:13the world
00:26:13of media
00:26:14and politics
00:26:15was fucking
00:26:16foul.
00:26:21It was
00:26:21fucking
00:26:22foul.
00:26:26I don't
00:26:26think I've
00:26:27ever,
00:26:27like other
00:26:28than coming
00:26:28home from
00:26:29a rational
00:26:29universe to
00:26:30my family
00:26:30of origin,
00:26:31I don't
00:26:32think I've
00:26:32experienced
00:26:32anything
00:26:33fouler.
00:26:35It's one
00:26:35of the
00:26:35reasons why
00:26:36I eventually
00:26:36just had to
00:26:37bust it out
00:26:38of politics
00:26:38and the
00:26:39sort of
00:26:39media stuff.
00:26:40It's
00:26:41foul.
00:26:45It's
00:26:45foul.
00:26:45I don't
00:26:46think,
00:26:46I didn't
00:26:46find it
00:26:47foul among
00:26:47the podcasters,
00:26:48but it's
00:26:50fucking
00:26:50foul.
00:26:51It really
00:26:52is.
00:26:55So,
00:26:56when I
00:26:58was in
00:26:58competition
00:26:59with
00:27:00other
00:27:01businesses
00:27:01to try
00:27:02and sell
00:27:02environmental
00:27:03management
00:27:03information
00:27:04systems,
00:27:04health and
00:27:04safety
00:27:05information
00:27:05systems,
00:27:05all the
00:27:06stuff that
00:27:06I had
00:27:07programmed
00:27:07and worked
00:27:07on,
00:27:09I mean,
00:27:10we fought
00:27:11hard.
00:27:12And I
00:27:13remember
00:27:13calling people
00:27:14up,
00:27:14congratulating
00:27:15them,
00:27:15they called
00:27:16me up to
00:27:16congratulate
00:27:16me,
00:27:17but we
00:27:18fought hard
00:27:18against each
00:27:19other,
00:27:19but we
00:27:19shook hands,
00:27:20right?
00:27:21And we
00:27:22needed each
00:27:23other because
00:27:23if you've
00:27:25got five
00:27:26competitors,
00:27:26they're all
00:27:27advertising,
00:27:27and that
00:27:28saves you
00:27:28money on
00:27:29your
00:27:29average.
00:27:29If you're
00:27:29the only
00:27:29person,
00:27:30then you
00:27:30have to
00:27:30do all
00:27:31the
00:27:31advertising.
00:27:31So,
00:27:32it's
00:27:32fierce but
00:27:33friendly.
00:27:34Now,
00:27:35what I
00:27:37couldn't
00:27:38imagine,
00:27:39what I
00:27:40couldn't
00:27:40imagine
00:27:41was
00:27:43going up
00:27:47against a
00:27:47fierce competitor
00:27:48or a
00:27:48series of
00:27:49fierce
00:27:49competitors,
00:27:50losing to
00:27:52them,
00:27:52and then
00:27:53trying to
00:27:53get them
00:27:54debanked by
00:27:55lying and
00:27:57saying they
00:27:57were money
00:27:58laundering or
00:27:58they were
00:27:59fraudulent or
00:28:01like,
00:28:02I couldn't
00:28:02conceive of
00:28:03that.
00:28:05I mean,
00:28:06that would
00:28:06be like
00:28:06your concerns
00:28:08that you're
00:28:08going to
00:28:08lose a
00:28:09running race
00:28:09to some
00:28:10guy.
00:28:10So,
00:28:10what you
00:28:10do is
00:28:12you
00:28:15send in,
00:28:16you spike
00:28:17his drink
00:28:18with some
00:28:18performance
00:28:19enhancing drug
00:28:19and then you
00:28:20make an
00:28:20anonymous call
00:28:21to get him
00:28:21tested.
00:28:22That's
00:28:22fucking
00:28:23foul.
00:28:30That's
00:28:30incomprehensible.
00:28:32I've never
00:28:33heard of
00:28:33anything like
00:28:34that,
00:28:34honestly.
00:28:34Never
00:28:35heard of
00:28:35anything like
00:28:36that in
00:28:36the business
00:28:36world.
00:28:50Yeah,
00:28:51miss this
00:28:51mail.
00:28:52Yeah,
00:28:52misinformation,
00:28:52disinformation,
00:28:53mail information
00:28:53is all they
00:28:54do.
00:28:58Yeah,
00:28:58they run to
00:28:59the government
00:28:59and that happens
00:29:00in the business
00:29:00world as well.
00:29:01Joe Rogan was
00:29:02pretty foul to
00:29:02you as far
00:29:03as I recall.
00:29:03Yeah,
00:29:04that's true.
00:29:04That's true.
00:29:05Yeah,
00:29:05you're right,
00:29:06James,
00:29:06you don't go
00:29:06Nancy Kerrigan,
00:29:07right?
00:29:09Well,
00:29:09actually,
00:29:09Tonya Harding
00:29:10was the one
00:29:10who I think
00:29:11she hired
00:29:11her boyfriend
00:29:11to take a
00:29:12pipe wrench
00:29:13to Nancy Kerrigan's
00:29:13knee or
00:29:14something like
00:29:14that,
00:29:15right?
00:29:16I mean,
00:29:17I used to,
00:29:18back in the
00:29:19day in
00:29:20another life,
00:29:22I was,
00:29:22I've always
00:29:23been,
00:29:23well,
00:29:23I was,
00:29:24I was an
00:29:25introvert,
00:29:26pretty shy as a
00:29:26kid,
00:29:26but I really
00:29:27worked hard to
00:29:27sort of overcome
00:29:28that.
00:29:29And I used
00:29:30to go down
00:29:31to Vegas
00:29:32and you set
00:29:33up this whole,
00:29:33I'm sure you've
00:29:34been to conferences
00:29:34probably at one
00:29:36time or another.
00:29:36So we would go
00:29:37down,
00:29:37you'd set up
00:29:38your booth
00:29:38and I would
00:29:40chat with people
00:29:41and make jokes
00:29:41and show them
00:29:42our software
00:29:42and you'd
00:29:44offer them
00:29:44an iPod
00:29:45if they'd
00:29:45give you
00:29:46a business
00:29:46card and
00:29:46then you'd
00:29:47go and
00:29:47call them
00:29:47later and
00:29:48so on,
00:29:48right?
00:29:49And of
00:29:50course,
00:29:50we would
00:29:50go over
00:29:51to our
00:29:52competitors
00:29:53booths.
00:29:54We would.
00:29:55We would
00:29:56go over
00:29:56to our
00:29:56competitors
00:29:56booths
00:29:58and,
00:29:59you know,
00:30:01it was
00:30:01a tiny bit
00:30:03intense,
00:30:03but it
00:30:04wasn't
00:30:04hostile.
00:30:06You joke
00:30:06with them
00:30:07a little
00:30:07bit and
00:30:07you got
00:30:08us on
00:30:09that one,
00:30:09but we
00:30:09got you
00:30:09on this
00:30:10one.
00:30:10And,
00:30:10you know,
00:30:12you just
00:30:13play like
00:30:16children play
00:30:16very seriously,
00:30:17right?
00:30:20Right.
00:30:26So,
00:30:27that's
00:30:28the sports
00:30:28world.
00:30:30If you
00:30:31want to
00:30:31beat somebody,
00:30:32you figure
00:30:32out what
00:30:32they're doing
00:30:33that's better
00:30:33than you and
00:30:34you try to
00:30:34replicate it,
00:30:35right?
00:30:35If somebody's
00:30:36got a
00:30:37what was
00:30:38it?
00:30:39Andre
00:30:39Agassi
00:30:39versus
00:30:40Bjorn
00:30:40Borg.
00:30:41I think
00:30:41Andre
00:30:41Agassi
00:30:42figured out
00:30:42that Bjorn
00:30:43Borg used
00:30:44to stick
00:30:44out his
00:30:44tongue when
00:30:45he was
00:30:46going to
00:30:46go left
00:30:46or right
00:30:46on the
00:30:47serve.
00:30:47So,
00:30:48it gave
00:30:48him a
00:30:48tiny,
00:30:48tiny advantage,
00:30:49right?
00:30:49So,
00:30:53in the
00:30:55sports world,
00:30:55in the
00:30:55business
00:30:56world,
00:30:56you compete
00:30:57hard,
00:30:57you play
00:30:57hard,
00:30:58but you
00:30:59don't
00:31:00lie about
00:31:00people.
00:31:01You don't
00:31:01accuse them
00:31:02of heinous
00:31:02things.
00:31:03You don't
00:31:04sabotage
00:31:04them.
00:31:05You don't
00:31:06spike their
00:31:06drinks.
00:31:07You don't
00:31:08spread
00:31:09rumors
00:31:09about them
00:31:12that are
00:31:13dangerous and
00:31:15false.
00:31:15You just,
00:31:16you just,
00:31:16I've never heard
00:31:17of that in
00:31:17business.
00:31:17I'm sure
00:31:18it happens
00:31:19occasionally,
00:31:20but I did
00:31:21a lot of,
00:31:21you know,
00:31:22I did a lot
00:31:23of business
00:31:23with a lot
00:31:24of different
00:31:24companies,
00:31:25and this
00:31:26was never
00:31:26a thing.
00:31:27It was
00:31:27fair.
00:31:28It was
00:31:29fierce,
00:31:30but it
00:31:30was fair.
00:31:34But media
00:31:35politics is
00:31:38foul.
00:31:42And the
00:31:42one thing
00:31:43that I did
00:31:43notice,
00:31:44certainly in
00:31:45the world
00:31:45of business,
00:31:46most people
00:31:47had done
00:31:48sports,
00:31:50like serious
00:31:50sports.
00:31:51I mean,
00:31:51there was
00:31:52still that
00:31:52stuff going
00:31:52on,
00:31:53right?
00:31:53I mean,
00:31:54when I
00:31:54worked at
00:31:55my first
00:31:55programming
00:31:55gig,
00:31:56we went
00:31:56and played
00:31:57squash a
00:31:57lot,
00:31:58and people
00:31:58were pretty
00:31:59good.
00:31:59A lot of
00:32:00golf,
00:32:00of course,
00:32:01tennis,
00:32:02pickleball,
00:32:02and all
00:32:03of that.
00:32:04A lot of
00:32:04people do
00:32:05sports,
00:32:06particularly
00:32:06the sales
00:32:06people.
00:32:10So,
00:32:12you know,
00:32:13hopefully this
00:32:14makes sense
00:32:15as to
00:32:17what I'm
00:32:18talking about.
00:32:19You've
00:32:20got the
00:32:21expert class
00:32:22and you
00:32:23have the
00:32:24podcasting
00:32:24class.
00:32:25And the
00:32:26podcasting
00:32:26class is
00:32:27eating the
00:32:27expert class
00:32:28alive.
00:32:31Now,
00:32:32in general,
00:32:33if you're
00:32:33losing to a
00:32:34competitor,
00:32:35you've got to
00:32:36figure out what
00:32:37they're doing
00:32:37that's better.
00:32:39That's one
00:32:40option.
00:32:41But that's not
00:32:42the option in
00:32:43general that
00:32:43happens in the
00:32:44realm of
00:32:44politics.
00:32:45And what
00:32:47happens in the
00:32:48realm of
00:32:48politics in
00:32:49the media
00:32:49is lying
00:32:53about people,
00:32:54trying to get
00:32:55people to
00:32:55platform,
00:32:56trying to get
00:32:56people to
00:32:56not talk to
00:32:57people,
00:32:57attacking
00:32:58anyone who
00:32:58talks to
00:32:58someone,
00:32:59you know,
00:33:00that kind
00:33:00of stuff.
00:33:04So,
00:33:05in my
00:33:05view,
00:33:06in my
00:33:07view,
00:33:08Douglas
00:33:09Murray was
00:33:10really talking
00:33:10to Joe
00:33:10Rogan,
00:33:11not really
00:33:11to Dave
00:33:12Smith.
00:33:13And there
00:33:13was this
00:33:13whole,
00:33:13was it
00:33:1440-minute
00:33:14struggle
00:33:14session at
00:33:15the beginning,
00:33:15like how
00:33:16dare you
00:33:16platform
00:33:16these people
00:33:17kind of
00:33:17thing.
00:33:19But that's
00:33:19the big
00:33:20challenge,
00:33:20right?
00:33:21And I'll
00:33:21go with what
00:33:22Douglas Murray
00:33:23says.
00:33:23Like,
00:33:23let's say
00:33:24that there
00:33:24is,
00:33:24I'm not
00:33:24talking about
00:33:25any particular
00:33:25individuals because
00:33:26I don't know
00:33:27their work,
00:33:27but let's
00:33:28just say
00:33:29there's
00:33:29Bob,
00:33:30Bob who's
00:33:30out there
00:33:31and Bob
00:33:31is just
00:33:31saying
00:33:31terrible
00:33:32stuff.
00:33:32There's
00:33:33terrible
00:33:33stuff,
00:33:33right?
00:33:33Stuff that's
00:33:34just really
00:33:34bad.
00:33:35Okay.
00:33:36And let's
00:33:36say Bob
00:33:37has a big
00:33:37audience,
00:33:38right?
00:33:39So,
00:33:40what do
00:33:40you do?
00:33:41Bob
00:33:42has got
00:33:43a big
00:33:43audience and
00:33:44he's saying
00:33:45terrible
00:33:45stuff.
00:33:45Let's
00:33:45just make
00:33:46the case,
00:33:46right?
00:33:47What do
00:33:47you do?
00:33:50What do
00:33:50you do?
00:33:50Well,
00:33:55I think
00:33:55you have
00:33:55to fill,
00:33:56you have
00:33:56to figure
00:33:56out what
00:33:56niche
00:33:57Bob
00:33:57is
00:33:59filling.
00:34:02Why do
00:34:03people want
00:34:03to listen
00:34:03to Bob?
00:34:04And let's
00:34:05just say
00:34:05again,
00:34:05we'll just
00:34:06make Douglas
00:34:06Murray's case
00:34:07as strong
00:34:07as possible
00:34:08and say
00:34:08Bob is
00:34:08saying
00:34:08objectively
00:34:09terrible
00:34:09stuff.
00:34:12Well,
00:34:13how do
00:34:15you,
00:34:16how do
00:34:18you help
00:34:18people who
00:34:19are drawn
00:34:19to bad
00:34:20information,
00:34:21bad
00:34:21arguments,
00:34:23negative
00:34:24stuff,
00:34:24whatever,
00:34:24how do
00:34:24you help
00:34:25them?
00:34:25Well,
00:34:25you have
00:34:25to figure
00:34:26out what
00:34:26need is
00:34:28being served,
00:34:29right?
00:34:33And then
00:34:33you have
00:34:34to try
00:34:34and fulfill
00:34:35that need
00:34:35in a better
00:34:36way.
00:34:39You have
00:34:40to understand
00:34:41why people
00:34:41are drawn
00:34:42to Bob.
00:34:44And then
00:34:44you have
00:34:44to figure
00:34:45out how
00:34:47to give
00:34:47them better
00:34:48information,
00:34:49lure
00:34:50them
00:34:50away.
00:34:53Because the
00:34:54moment you
00:34:54say nobody
00:34:56should talk
00:34:57to Bob,
00:34:58now it's
00:35:00not censorship,
00:35:01right?
00:35:02It's not
00:35:03censorship to
00:35:03say you
00:35:04shouldn't talk
00:35:05to so-and-so.
00:35:06I mean,
00:35:07just making a
00:35:07case,
00:35:07right?
00:35:08Censorship
00:35:08is to me,
00:35:09certainly if you
00:35:11get people
00:35:11deplatformed
00:35:12fraudulently,
00:35:12or if you
00:35:14lie about
00:35:14people and
00:35:15that's
00:35:17fraudulent
00:35:17and that's
00:35:17bad.
00:35:18Or,
00:35:18of course,
00:35:19if the
00:35:19government
00:35:19passes a
00:35:19law,
00:35:20you can't
00:35:20talk about
00:35:20X,
00:35:21Y,
00:35:21or Z,
00:35:21that's
00:35:21censorship,
00:35:22right?
00:35:22So,
00:35:23if Bob
00:35:27is saying
00:35:28bad things,
00:35:29then you
00:35:32need to
00:35:33engage with
00:35:33Bob,
00:35:34you need to
00:35:34set up a
00:35:35debate with
00:35:35Bob,
00:35:36because that's
00:35:36how things
00:35:36work in the
00:35:37real world,
00:35:37right?
00:35:38in the
00:35:38world of
00:35:39business,
00:35:39right?
00:35:39In the
00:35:40world of
00:35:40sports,
00:35:41right?
00:35:41So,
00:35:41if Bob
00:35:42is saying
00:35:42this
00:35:42egregious
00:35:43stuff,
00:35:43and Douglas
00:35:46Murray is
00:35:47very upset
00:35:48and angry
00:35:48that Bob
00:35:49is saying
00:35:49all this
00:35:49terrible
00:35:49stuff,
00:35:50or whoever,
00:35:50right?
00:35:51Then go
00:35:52and talk to
00:35:54that person
00:35:54and correct
00:35:55that person,
00:35:56and have
00:35:57the debate
00:35:57and have
00:35:58the facts
00:35:59and so
00:35:59on,
00:35:59right?
00:36:02I mean,
00:36:02I've talked
00:36:03to,
00:36:03gosh,
00:36:04I've talked
00:36:04to child
00:36:05abusers
00:36:05on this
00:36:06show,
00:36:06I've talked
00:36:07to
00:36:08communists,
00:36:09I've talked
00:36:09to fascists,
00:36:11I've talked
00:36:11to,
00:36:12not quite
00:36:13the same
00:36:13category,
00:36:13of course,
00:36:14the modern
00:36:14monetary
00:36:15theory people,
00:36:16I've talked
00:36:16to socialists,
00:36:17I've talked
00:36:18to,
00:36:18you know,
00:36:20people that
00:36:21I would
00:36:21consider,
00:36:22you know,
00:36:22fairly terrible,
00:36:23but try to
00:36:24have those
00:36:25conversations,
00:36:26right?
00:36:28And I
00:36:29have,
00:36:29you know,
00:36:29gone through
00:36:30the communist
00:36:30manifesto,
00:36:31I did this
00:36:31with my
00:36:31daughter some
00:36:32years ago,
00:36:33I've gone
00:36:33through the
00:36:33communist
00:36:33manifesto,
00:36:34and I
00:36:37have struggled
00:36:40to understand
00:36:41and explain
00:36:41why people
00:36:42are drawn
00:36:42to it,
00:36:42to childhood
00:36:43stuff,
00:36:43and all
00:36:44of that,
00:36:44right?
00:36:46The origins
00:36:47of evil,
00:36:48I did,
00:36:48I've read
00:36:49the whole
00:36:49origins of
00:36:50war and
00:36:51child abuse,
00:36:53which you
00:36:54should check
00:36:54out,
00:36:54freedoman.com
00:36:55slash books,
00:36:55it's a great
00:36:56book,
00:36:57Lloyd DeMoss,
00:36:58the late
00:36:58Lloyd DeMoss.
00:36:59So,
00:37:00obviously I'm
00:37:01not trying to
00:37:01say,
00:37:02oh,
00:37:02the
00:37:02perfection is
00:37:04me,
00:37:04I'm not
00:37:04trying to say
00:37:05anything like
00:37:05that,
00:37:05I'm just
00:37:05saying that
00:37:06I've tried
00:37:06to sort
00:37:06live by
00:37:06this,
00:37:07engaged
00:37:08with
00:37:08people,
00:37:08I've
00:37:08engaged
00:37:09with
00:37:09mystics,
00:37:10I've
00:37:10had
00:37:10debates
00:37:10with
00:37:11out
00:37:11and
00:37:11out
00:37:11mystics,
00:37:12or is it
00:37:13Thaddeus Russell
00:37:13who believed
00:37:14that a woman
00:37:14could get
00:37:15pregnant by
00:37:15having sex
00:37:16with a
00:37:16tree?
00:37:18I had
00:37:19conversations
00:37:20with a
00:37:22leftist
00:37:24anarchist,
00:37:25I had two
00:37:25shows with
00:37:26Noam Chomsky.
00:37:29When it came
00:37:29to the IQ
00:37:30research,
00:37:31I talked
00:37:32to people
00:37:32who are
00:37:34from all
00:37:34left-right
00:37:35centrists,
00:37:36people who
00:37:37believed it
00:37:37was more
00:37:37genetic,
00:37:38people who
00:37:38believed it
00:37:38was more
00:37:39environmental,
00:37:39or exclusively
00:37:40environmental,
00:37:41let them make
00:37:42their case,
00:37:43so you engage
00:37:43with people,
00:37:44right?
00:37:45You engage
00:37:46with people.
00:37:46I had a
00:37:52conversation
00:37:52with a
00:37:53fine young
00:37:54black fellow
00:37:54about the
00:37:55IQ issues,
00:37:56and it's
00:37:58really important
00:37:58to keep the
00:37:59conversation
00:37:59open.
00:38:03Now,
00:38:04I understand
00:38:05people like
00:38:06Richard Dawkins
00:38:07who say,
00:38:07look,
00:38:07I'm not
00:38:07going to
00:38:08debate
00:38:08creationists
00:38:08because
00:38:09that's
00:38:11science
00:38:12versus
00:38:13a form
00:38:16of
00:38:16superstition
00:38:17or
00:38:17mysticism.
00:38:17I can
00:38:18sort of
00:38:18understand
00:38:19that.
00:38:20But this
00:38:21is not
00:38:21that,
00:38:21right?
00:38:23Sorry,
00:38:23let me
00:38:24just check
00:38:25in with
00:38:25you guys.
00:38:30Yeah,
00:38:31I did a
00:38:31whole show
00:38:31with the
00:38:32flat earther.
00:38:34It's very
00:38:34interesting.
00:38:40John Stossel
00:38:41tries to get
00:38:42people to
00:38:42debate all
00:38:42the time,
00:38:43dodging
00:38:43direct
00:38:43debate
00:38:43is a
00:38:44common
00:38:44strategy
00:38:44for
00:38:44these
00:38:45Bob
00:38:45types.
00:38:46Right.
00:38:47Could be.
00:38:48It could be.
00:38:48It could be.
00:38:49Absolutely could be.
00:38:50So let's say
00:38:50that Bob is
00:38:51saying all
00:38:51this terrible
00:38:52stuff,
00:38:54and
00:38:56Bob won't
00:38:59debate with
00:38:59you.
00:39:00Okay?
00:39:00So then
00:39:01you,
00:39:01as an
00:39:01expert,
00:39:02should get
00:39:03a transcript
00:39:03of what
00:39:04Bob has
00:39:04said,
00:39:04and you
00:39:05should take
00:39:05it apart
00:39:06sentence
00:39:06by sentence,
00:39:07and I've
00:39:07done this
00:39:07a lot.
00:39:08I just
00:39:08did this
00:39:09with
00:39:09Noam
00:39:10Chomsky
00:39:11and
00:39:12Lordy
00:39:15Bob
00:39:15brain fart.
00:39:19I have
00:39:19it.
00:39:20I always
00:39:21forget this
00:39:22guy's name
00:39:22because of
00:39:23revulsion.
00:39:24Michel
00:39:25Foucault.
00:39:26I did
00:39:26Michel
00:39:26Foucault
00:39:27and Noam
00:39:27Chomsky,
00:39:28a famous
00:39:28debate that
00:39:29they had,
00:39:30I think,
00:39:31in the
00:39:31early 70s.
00:39:34And I've
00:39:35gone through
00:39:35a bunch of
00:39:36socialist
00:39:36stuff,
00:39:37just so
00:39:38if you
00:39:38can't
00:39:39get the
00:39:39debate
00:39:40going,
00:39:41then,
00:39:41you know,
00:39:42go through
00:39:42what they're
00:39:42saying.
00:39:43Peter
00:39:44Joseph,
00:39:44I did the
00:39:45whole Peter
00:39:45Joseph
00:39:45debate,
00:39:46and all
00:39:47of that.
00:39:47Yep.
00:39:47Yeah,
00:39:51the show
00:39:51is 5886,
00:39:53and Noam
00:39:54Chomsky
00:39:54debates
00:39:54with
00:39:54Michel
00:39:55Foucault,
00:39:55debate
00:39:55analysis.
00:39:59So,
00:40:00if you're
00:40:06bothered by
00:40:06people having
00:40:07bad ideas,
00:40:08engage with
00:40:09them or
00:40:10engage with
00:40:10their ideas.
00:40:11Make the
00:40:11case.
00:40:12Show them
00:40:12how they're
00:40:13wrong.
00:40:13Tell them
00:40:13how they're
00:40:14wrong.
00:40:14I think
00:40:17that's the
00:40:19thing to
00:40:19do.
00:40:19Now,
00:40:20then the
00:40:21question is,
00:40:22well,
00:40:22why wouldn't
00:40:22you,
00:40:23right?
00:40:25Because,
00:40:26actually,
00:40:29it's completely
00:40:29unfair.
00:40:30It's not his
00:40:30fault at all.
00:40:32Douglas Murray
00:40:33reminds me so
00:40:34much of my
00:40:35brother,
00:40:35it almost
00:40:35gives me
00:40:36hives.
00:40:37I'm telling
00:40:37you.
00:40:40My brother
00:40:41spent a lot
00:40:41more time in
00:40:42England than
00:40:42I did.
00:40:45So,
00:40:45I had to
00:40:45sort of,
00:40:46you know,
00:40:46ha,
00:40:47zen,
00:40:47breathe through
00:40:47that,
00:40:48right?
00:40:49So,
00:40:50the hostility
00:40:51and contempt
00:40:51that Murray
00:40:52had towards
00:40:52these,
00:40:53you know,
00:40:53Bob,
00:40:54whoever the
00:40:54bad actress
00:40:55that he
00:40:55was viewing,
00:40:56I think it
00:40:58comes from a
00:40:58kind of
00:40:59despair,
00:41:01which is
00:41:01the people
00:41:05who,
00:41:05like whatever
00:41:05the eponymous
00:41:07Bob has
00:41:07to say,
00:41:09won't listen.
00:41:11They
00:41:12can't
00:41:13reason,
00:41:14they're just
00:41:15reactive,
00:41:16they're
00:41:16dangerous,
00:41:17they're
00:41:17beyond
00:41:17reason.
00:41:19So,
00:41:19we can't
00:41:20save people,
00:41:21we can't
00:41:22help people,
00:41:22they won't
00:41:22listen to
00:41:23reason,
00:41:23so silencing
00:41:24them is the
00:41:25only course
00:41:25of action.
00:41:29We just
00:41:29don't talk
00:41:30to them,
00:41:31don't platform
00:41:31them,
00:41:32don't have
00:41:33them on.
00:41:33as opposed
00:41:37to,
00:41:37well,
00:41:37they're
00:41:37saying
00:41:38these
00:41:38things
00:41:38that
00:41:38are
00:41:38false,
00:41:39and
00:41:42therefore
00:41:42we should
00:41:42say
00:41:42things
00:41:42that
00:41:43are
00:41:43true.
00:41:44Now,
00:41:46when it
00:41:46comes to
00:41:46things like
00:41:47IoT
00:41:48platforming,
00:41:49then,
00:41:51I mean,
00:41:52massive amounts,
00:41:53I think it's
00:41:5440% in some
00:41:54departments of
00:41:55academics in
00:41:57America,
00:41:57probably it's
00:41:58not wholly
00:41:59dissimilar in,
00:41:59say,
00:42:00England,
00:42:00although I
00:42:01think Douglas
00:42:01Murray is
00:42:02now in the
00:42:03U.S.,
00:42:03not in
00:42:04Canada,
00:42:04sorry,
00:42:05not in
00:42:05the U.K.,
00:42:05but 40% in
00:42:10some departments
00:42:11are outright
00:42:11Marxists.
00:42:14Now,
00:42:14whatever Bob
00:42:15is saying
00:42:15that's
00:42:16negative,
00:42:17this made-up
00:42:18guy Bob,
00:42:18right,
00:42:19whatever he's
00:42:19saying is
00:42:19negative,
00:42:21did it get
00:42:22100 million
00:42:22people killed
00:42:23in the 20th
00:42:23century?
00:42:26So,
00:42:27if you're
00:42:27comfortable
00:42:28having
00:42:30outright
00:42:31Marxists
00:42:32in the
00:42:33university,
00:42:34it's kind
00:42:34of tough
00:42:35to make
00:42:35the case
00:42:35for
00:42:35deplatforming
00:42:36people,
00:42:36isn't it?
00:42:43So,
00:42:44if Bob's
00:42:47audience is
00:42:48just full of
00:42:49terrible people
00:42:49who believe
00:42:50terrible things,
00:42:51then you
00:42:52should engage
00:42:53with Bob,
00:42:53or you
00:42:53should at
00:42:54least engage
00:42:54with Bob's
00:42:54ideas or
00:42:55arguments,
00:42:56because if
00:42:58you say,
00:42:59well,
00:42:59you just
00:42:59can't talk
00:43:00to Bob
00:43:00and Bob
00:43:00should not
00:43:01be
00:43:01platformed,
00:43:02so to
00:43:02speak.
00:43:02I'm not
00:43:03saying that's
00:43:03the same as
00:43:04censorship,
00:43:04unless you
00:43:05lie and
00:43:06misrepresent.
00:43:09That's a
00:43:09form of
00:43:10fraud or
00:43:10slander,
00:43:10maybe.
00:43:12So,
00:43:12silencing is
00:43:13the only
00:43:13cause of
00:43:14action,
00:43:14either because
00:43:15you don't
00:43:15have a good
00:43:15answer to
00:43:15what Bob's
00:43:16saying,
00:43:16or because
00:43:17you believe
00:43:17that Bob's
00:43:18audience is
00:43:18just too
00:43:19dumb and
00:43:19bigoted to
00:43:19ever be
00:43:20helped,
00:43:20right?
00:43:22Okay,
00:43:23but to
00:43:23abandon
00:43:24people in
00:43:25that kind
00:43:25of way is
00:43:25to just
00:43:26carve off
00:43:26entire slices
00:43:27of the
00:43:27population and
00:43:28say that
00:43:28they're
00:43:28completely
00:43:28beyond
00:43:29reason and
00:43:29should just
00:43:30be absolutely
00:43:30segregated and
00:43:31separated from
00:43:32society as a
00:43:32whole.
00:43:34It's kind of
00:43:34like a moral
00:43:35apartheid state.
00:43:44Yeah,
00:43:45so the
00:43:45hostility and
00:43:45contempt and
00:43:46disgust from
00:43:48Douglas Murray was
00:43:49really, really
00:43:50kind of
00:43:50fascinating,
00:43:50and I think
00:43:51that the
00:43:51underlying part
00:43:52of that is
00:43:52just this
00:43:53despair,
00:43:55that there
00:43:56are just
00:43:56these people
00:43:56who believe
00:43:57whatever Bob
00:43:57is saying,
00:43:58it's just
00:43:59terrible.
00:44:01They can't
00:44:02be fixed,
00:44:02they can't
00:44:02be helped,
00:44:03there's no
00:44:03point engaging,
00:44:03you just have
00:44:04to cut them
00:44:05out, you
00:44:05have to
00:44:05separate them
00:44:07from society,
00:44:07carve them
00:44:08off, amputate
00:44:08them from
00:44:09social discourse.
00:44:11I gotta tell
00:44:12you, I'm not
00:44:13entirely sure
00:44:13that works as
00:44:14well as you
00:44:14think it
00:44:15does.
00:44:16Like, refusing
00:44:17to engage
00:44:17with bad
00:44:18ideas, I
00:44:20don't think
00:44:21it works
00:44:25out as well
00:44:25as you think
00:44:25it does,
00:44:26because it
00:44:26doesn't make
00:44:26those bad
00:44:27ideas go
00:44:27away.
00:44:28It just
00:44:28means that
00:44:29they no
00:44:29longer get
00:44:29corrected in
00:44:30the public
00:44:30square.
00:44:34And you
00:44:35are, of
00:44:35course,
00:44:36handing a
00:44:38bit of a
00:44:38weapon,
00:44:41saying, look,
00:44:41that they
00:44:41won't even
00:44:41engage with
00:44:42us because
00:44:42they can't
00:44:43disprove us
00:44:43or whatever,
00:44:44right?
00:44:44anti-democratic
00:44:51to say,
00:44:52say, there
00:44:52are people so
00:44:53easily influenced
00:44:54by a
00:44:55podcaster
00:44:56that they
00:44:57can't think
00:44:58for themselves,
00:44:58they just
00:44:58swallow whatever
00:44:59bad stuff
00:45:00the podcaster
00:45:01is putting
00:45:01out.
00:45:04Well, so
00:45:05people can't
00:45:06choose their
00:45:06own podcast
00:45:06rationally,
00:45:07but apparently
00:45:07they can choose
00:45:08their own
00:45:08political leaders,
00:45:09like, it's
00:45:09very anti-democratic,
00:45:10right?
00:45:16I mean, I
00:45:17don't advocate for
00:45:18silencing other
00:45:18philosophers, I
00:45:19just try to win
00:45:20over their
00:45:20audience in the
00:45:21same way that I
00:45:21wouldn't lie about
00:45:22a business
00:45:23competitor and
00:45:23accuse them of
00:45:24fraud in order to
00:45:24get them
00:45:25investigated, or
00:45:26money laundering to
00:45:27get them
00:45:27investigated.
00:45:28I'll just try and
00:45:29write better
00:45:30software.
00:45:37Oh, yeah,
00:45:38taxi cab geometry
00:45:39guy.
00:45:40Yeah, the guy
00:45:41with the missing
00:45:41wife.
00:45:46All right.
00:45:53Somebody says,
00:45:53I didn't get that
00:45:54sense from Douglas.
00:45:55I only watched the
00:45:56first 50 minutes.
00:45:57I believe he was
00:45:57saying that
00:45:58he was saying
00:45:59that the people
00:45:59who advocate for
00:46:00this crazy stuff
00:46:01should get paired
00:46:02with some expert
00:46:02who could pick
00:46:03them apart.
00:46:05Yeah, maybe.
00:46:06Maybe.
00:46:07It's not what I
00:46:08got, but, you
00:46:09know, again, I'm
00:46:10not going to argue
00:46:11with you about
00:46:11that.
00:46:17Yeah, I think
00:46:18most philosophers
00:46:19have not done a
00:46:20great job in
00:46:21philosophy.
00:46:24They just
00:46:24haven't.
00:46:25And do I
00:46:27then say they
00:46:28should have
00:46:29their books
00:46:29burned or
00:46:29be stripped
00:46:30in the
00:46:30library or
00:46:30nobody should
00:46:31read them.
00:46:31I mean, I
00:46:32literally have
00:46:32done a
00:46:3323 or 24
00:46:34part series
00:46:35history of
00:46:35philosophers
00:46:35where I
00:46:36talk about
00:46:36the
00:46:36philosophers,
00:46:37strengths and
00:46:37weaknesses,
00:46:38comparisons to
00:46:39my own
00:46:39arguments, and
00:46:39so on.
00:46:40I do think
00:46:46that people
00:46:47should not
00:46:47be forced
00:46:47to pay
00:46:48for
00:46:48propagandists
00:46:48or
00:46:49ideologues
00:46:50in
00:46:50universities
00:46:50and schools,
00:46:51but that's
00:46:52a free
00:46:53market
00:46:53education
00:46:53scenario.
00:46:57All right,
00:46:57get to your
00:46:58questions and
00:46:58comments.
00:46:58I have one
00:46:58other thing
00:46:59to say,
00:46:59but can
00:47:15you talk
00:47:15about places
00:47:16you've not
00:47:16visited?
00:47:17That was an
00:47:17interesting
00:47:17question.
00:47:18And he
00:47:20was basically
00:47:20saying, can
00:47:21you talk about
00:47:22Gaza and
00:47:23Israel if
00:47:23you've not
00:47:24visited those
00:47:25places?
00:47:26Which he was
00:47:27saying to
00:47:27so Dave
00:47:28Smith, right?
00:47:29And Dave
00:47:30Smith, I
00:47:30didn't think
00:47:30it was a
00:47:30particularly
00:47:31strong
00:47:31argument to
00:47:32say, well,
00:47:33can you
00:47:34talk about
00:47:35Nazi
00:47:35Germany?
00:47:40Well,
00:47:40because you
00:47:40can't time
00:47:41travel, right?
00:47:42But can you
00:47:42talk about
00:47:43North Korea
00:47:43if you've
00:47:43never been
00:47:44to North
00:47:44Korea?
00:47:44Now,
00:47:44obviously,
00:47:45it's a
00:47:45little easier
00:47:45to go to
00:47:46Israel than
00:47:47it is to
00:47:47go to
00:47:47North Korea,
00:47:48but Michael
00:47:48Malice managed
00:47:49it, if I
00:47:50remember rightly.
00:47:55But,
00:47:55this, you
00:47:59know, the
00:48:00consequences
00:48:01of these
00:48:02arguments are
00:48:03very dark
00:48:03and bad,
00:48:04and right.
00:48:06Again, if
00:48:07you are
00:48:07concerned about
00:48:08the consequences
00:48:09of arguments
00:48:09being very
00:48:10dark and
00:48:11bad, which
00:48:12I accept,
00:48:13it can
00:48:13happen, then
00:48:15you need to
00:48:16figure out
00:48:16what's going
00:48:17on with
00:48:18communists in
00:48:20both lower
00:48:22and higher
00:48:22education.
00:48:24Okay.
00:48:25Or, you
00:48:26know, some
00:48:26hostility that
00:48:27comes out of
00:48:27the concept
00:48:28white privilege
00:48:28and so on.
00:48:29Like, if
00:48:30you're not
00:48:30talking about
00:48:30that stuff,
00:48:31then don't
00:48:32cherry pick,
00:48:32right?
00:48:37All right.
00:48:45So, it
00:48:47was a very
00:48:47interesting
00:48:48conversation.
00:48:49To me, I
00:48:49always find it
00:48:50just unsatisfying.
00:48:55To me, it's
00:48:57very unsatisfying.
00:48:59And, of
00:48:59course, you
00:49:00know, I
00:49:00can't help but
00:49:00put myself,
00:49:01oh, I
00:49:01would have
00:49:02said this.
00:49:02Of course, it's
00:49:03easy, right?
00:49:04It's easy when
00:49:04it's not you,
00:49:05right?
00:49:06I would have
00:49:06said this, I
00:49:06would have
00:49:07said that, and
00:49:07so on, right?
00:49:08And maybe I'll
00:49:09do a little bit
00:49:09more of that if
00:49:10I review this in
00:49:11more detail.
00:49:12But I do
00:49:15think that it
00:49:16is a shame,
00:49:18of course, that
00:49:19people can't
00:49:19build up from
00:49:20first principles.
00:49:22And, I mean, I
00:49:22know Dave
00:49:23Smith is a very
00:49:23smart guy and
00:49:24can do that.
00:49:25I think that
00:49:25Douglas Murray,
00:49:26obviously, is a
00:49:26very smart guy,
00:49:27too, but I
00:49:27don't think he's
00:49:28got quite as
00:49:28much first
00:49:29principle stuff.
00:49:38Anyway, so
00:49:39those are my
00:49:39thoughts.
00:49:39Thanks.
00:49:42If you want
00:49:43to give me
00:49:43your questions,
00:49:44comments,
00:49:45issues, challenges,
00:49:47I'm very happy
00:49:48to hear, and
00:49:48thank you for
00:49:48your patience
00:49:49as I work
00:49:50through this,
00:49:50and, of
00:49:51course,
00:49:51freedomain.com
00:49:51slash donate.
00:49:55freedomain.com
00:49:56slash donate to
00:49:56help out the
00:49:57show.
00:49:57You can, of
00:49:57course, tip as
00:49:58well here on
00:49:59the app, which
00:50:00I appreciate as
00:50:01well.
00:50:02All right, let
00:50:03me just make
00:50:03sure I don't,
00:50:06I'm not seeing
00:50:06any tips on
00:50:10the app.
00:50:11Oh.
00:50:12blinded by
00:50:14the light.
00:50:25Yeah.
00:50:27There we go.
00:50:32Blinded by
00:50:33the light.
00:50:36Wrapped up like a
00:50:38deuce, another
00:50:38runner in the
00:50:39night.
00:50:42No live
00:50:43tips.
00:50:43My gosh.
00:50:48When our
00:50:48taxpayer dollars
00:50:49are being sent
00:50:49to the Middle
00:50:50East, I think
00:50:50we have at
00:50:50least some
00:50:51input in the
00:50:51disaster,
00:50:52right?
00:50:57Can you go
00:50:57into more
00:50:58detail about
00:50:58why you
00:50:58didn't like
00:50:59Dave's
00:50:59rebuttal about
00:51:00visiting
00:51:00countries?
00:51:01Well, because
00:51:02if something
00:51:03is possible,
00:51:04you can't
00:51:04compare it to
00:51:05something that's
00:51:05impossible.
00:51:06So when
00:51:07Douglas Murray
00:51:08says, well,
00:51:09you haven't
00:51:11been to
00:51:11Israel or
00:51:12Gaza, therefore
00:51:13you can't
00:51:14talk about
00:51:14it, or
00:51:14therefore you
00:51:15have less
00:51:16credibility, and
00:51:17he used this
00:51:17particularly, at
00:51:18least have the
00:51:18courtesy to go
00:51:19and visit
00:51:19these places,
00:51:21bitter,
00:51:21scathing,
00:51:22fang-dripping
00:51:23contempt.
00:51:26So if
00:51:27Douglas Murray
00:51:28is saying to
00:51:28Dave Smith,
00:51:30you could
00:51:32have gone
00:51:32to Israel,
00:51:33you could
00:51:33have gone
00:51:33to Gaza,
00:51:34and that
00:51:35would give
00:51:35you more
00:51:35credibility.
00:51:36I mean, you
00:51:36can argue
00:51:37whether it
00:51:37would or
00:51:37wouldn't,
00:51:38but then
00:51:40for Dave
00:51:41Smith to
00:51:41say, but
00:51:42you haven't
00:51:42visited Nazi
00:51:43Germany, well,
00:51:44you can't
00:51:44visit Nazi
00:51:45Germany because
00:51:45you can't
00:51:46time travel,
00:51:47right?
00:51:47So taking
00:51:48something which
00:51:48is possible,
00:51:49which is
00:51:49going to
00:51:49Israel, and
00:51:51comparing it to
00:51:51something that's
00:51:52impossible, which
00:51:52is to visit
00:51:53Nazi Germany, is
00:51:54not a valid
00:51:54comparison.
00:51:55I don't think
00:51:55it's a very
00:51:56good answer.
00:52:00but, I
00:52:02mean, my
00:52:03particular
00:52:03answer would
00:52:05be that I
00:52:09don't need to
00:52:10go to Israel to
00:52:11know that
00:52:11physics work in
00:52:12Israel.
00:52:13I don't need to
00:52:15go to Israel to
00:52:15know that there's
00:52:16sunshine in
00:52:16Israel.
00:52:18I don't need to
00:52:19go to Israel to
00:52:20know that there's
00:52:21gravity in
00:52:21Israel, and
00:52:23morality is
00:52:24universal.
00:52:24And this is
00:52:38why I don't
00:52:39need to go to
00:52:39Nazi Germany to
00:52:40know that it
00:52:40was a totalitarian
00:52:41dictatorship, because
00:52:42I saw the laws, I
00:52:43know what
00:52:44happened, right?
00:52:45You can see the
00:52:45laws, right?
00:52:50Thank you,
00:52:51Lloyd.
00:52:53Best of luck
00:52:54with your job
00:52:54interviews.
00:53:04Somebody says,
00:53:05it's a shame
00:53:05that this trust
00:53:06that was put into
00:53:07the experts has
00:53:07been transferred to
00:53:08the podcasters,
00:53:09instead of the
00:53:09trust being
00:53:10destroyed altogether,
00:53:10like it should
00:53:11have been.
00:53:13Well, I think
00:53:13some people don't
00:53:14trust, I hope.
00:53:17But, of course,
00:53:18the interesting
00:53:18thing with
00:53:19Douglas Murray is
00:53:19he's saying that
00:53:21those who make
00:53:22bad arguments,
00:53:23or those who say
00:53:24things that are
00:53:24egregious, that
00:53:26they should
00:53:27suffer negative
00:53:27consequences.
00:53:35Well, what
00:53:38negative
00:53:38consequences
00:53:39has Douglas
00:53:42Murray advocated
00:53:43for those who
00:53:44got the war in
00:53:45Iraq wrong, the
00:53:46war in Afghanistan
00:53:46wrong, COVID
00:53:48wrong, the
00:53:49financial crisis
00:53:49wrong?
00:53:49has he also
00:53:50suggested that
00:53:52those people
00:53:53should suffer
00:53:53massive negative
00:53:54consequences, or
00:53:56is it only for
00:53:56people in the
00:53:59podcasting world?
00:54:03Because if you're
00:54:04saying that negative
00:54:05consequences should
00:54:06accrue to people in
00:54:06the podcasting world,
00:54:08and I don't know,
00:54:09I don't know, maybe
00:54:09he has, you know,
00:54:11like Iceland did,
00:54:12you know, advocated
00:54:13for jail for the
00:54:14banksters who ripped
00:54:15off a lot of people
00:54:15in the 0708
00:54:18financial crisis, or
00:54:19maybe he said war
00:54:20crimes tribunal should
00:54:21have been convened for
00:54:22those who lie people
00:54:23into war and so on,
00:54:24right?
00:54:25Maybe he has.
00:54:26I don't think so.
00:54:27I don't think so.
00:54:30Because then it's just
00:54:30kind of punching down,
00:54:31right?
00:54:31And that's fine, I
00:54:32mean, you know,
00:54:33punch down all you
00:54:34want, but let's not
00:54:35pretend you're
00:54:35principles, right?
00:54:36I want this, I want
00:54:39Bob deplatformed, Bob
00:54:41has no particular
00:54:42power, right?
00:54:43Okay, then it's not,
00:54:45it's not people who do
00:54:46bad things should suffer
00:54:47negative consequences.
00:54:48It's just that I have
00:54:51power over Bob and I
00:54:53can make Bob do stuff
00:54:54and whatever it is,
00:54:55right?
00:54:55Or harm Bob in a way
00:54:56that I can't.
00:54:59Yeah, is he applying
00:55:00these things universally,
00:55:01right?
00:55:06I mean, it seems to
00:55:13be fairly clear that some
00:55:17American funding went
00:55:18into the Wuhan Virology
00:55:22Lab, right?
00:55:30And what should happen to
00:55:32people who fund gain-of-function
00:55:34research?
00:55:36What should happen?
00:55:40I think Douglas Murray
00:55:41was like, yeah, yes,
00:55:42people definitely got
00:55:43things wrong over COVID,
00:55:44but moving on, it's like,
00:55:45it's kind of a big
00:55:46moving on thing.
00:55:55But no, this podcaster
00:55:56must pay.
00:55:57Okay.
00:56:06Yeah, experts are kind of
00:56:15for sale, right?
00:56:28All right.
00:56:29Let's see if you have any
00:56:30other questions, comments,
00:56:31issues, problems.
00:56:36Zarel says, hey, Steph,
00:56:37hope you're having an
00:56:38awesome evening.
00:56:38Have missed your show,
00:56:39but continue to support
00:56:40your work, hope everything's
00:56:41going well with you and the
00:56:41family.
00:56:42I am recovering.
00:56:43more questions.
00:56:49Would you be interested in a
00:56:50Minecraft movie review?
00:56:56Minecraft movie review.
00:56:58Yes, no, or indifferent.
00:57:04Yes, no, maybe.
00:57:06What you got?
00:57:08What you got?
00:57:11Hum, boy.
00:57:16Oh, let me see if I have any
00:57:18good bookmarks here.
00:57:28Jeffrey Tucker wrote,
00:57:30promoted, and you should
00:57:31check this out,
00:57:31the Brownstone Institute's
00:57:32got a book coming out
00:57:33called The COVID-Responsored
00:57:34Five Years, A History at the
00:57:35End of Civilization.
00:57:37Keep your eyes peeled for
00:57:38that.
00:57:46This is pretty wild.
00:57:47Now, the man named Juan
00:57:48Catalin spent nearly six
00:57:50months in jail for the
00:57:51murder of a teenage girl
00:57:52until his lawyer found
00:57:53unused footage from HBO's
00:57:54Curb Your Enthusiasm,
00:57:55which provided evidence
00:57:57that he was at a Dodgers
00:57:59game with his six-year-old
00:58:00daughter at the time of
00:58:00the crime.
00:58:01Isn't that wild?
00:58:10Oh, yeah, there's a
00:58:11terrifying movie.
00:58:12Came out in 2019 called
00:58:13Marriage Story.
00:58:14with Scarlett Johansson and
00:58:18that
00:58:18Neanderthal-looking guy,
00:58:22Adam Driver.
00:58:24Used to be a Marine, I
00:58:25think.
00:58:26Terrifying movie.
00:58:27Oh, my God.
00:58:28Just people just
00:58:29tearing each other
00:58:30apart.
00:58:31Directed by Noah Baumbach.
00:58:33Yeah, just
00:58:34shredding each other.
00:58:36Ah, horrible.
00:58:38Just horrifying.
00:58:48The red-headed libertarian
00:58:50wrote,
00:58:51George Washington
00:58:51received a limited
00:58:52formal education and was
00:58:53mostly self-taught.
00:58:54American exceptionalism
00:58:55does not require
00:58:56credentials.
00:58:57Right.
00:58:58I mean, America was
00:58:59founded on a repudiation
00:59:00of the old world and all
00:59:01of the experts who said,
00:59:02here's how society should
00:59:03run.
00:59:03Let's give them free
00:59:04speech and guns.
00:59:05So, credentialism does
00:59:08not work very well in
00:59:09America.
00:59:14So, somebody said,
00:59:15what Douglas Murray was
00:59:16saying was that, oh, so
00:59:18this is the historian
00:59:19Daryl Cooper, Ian Carroll,
00:59:20are happy to wield a
00:59:21degree of influence in
00:59:21public historical discourse
00:59:22that is typically reserved
00:59:23for experts but refuse to
00:59:24be held to the intellectual
00:59:25standards we hold experts
00:59:26to.
00:59:28Okay.
00:59:28So, if you're going to
00:59:29hold experts to these
00:59:30standards, what happens
00:59:32when they fail these
00:59:32standards?
00:59:33What happens when they
00:59:37fail these standards?
00:59:38In other words, has
00:59:40Douglas Murray gone on a
00:59:43tour saying, well, these
00:59:45experts got a whole bunch
00:59:48of stuff wrong?
00:59:50Right.
00:59:50These experts got a whole
00:59:51bunch of stuff wrong?
00:59:52And, you know, COVID, danger
01:00:02wrong, vaccine dangers wrong,
01:00:04global warming, the melting
01:00:05pot, IQ research, some
01:00:06psychotropics, replication
01:00:07crisis in science, causes of
01:00:09autism, media bias, feminism,
01:00:11welfare state, depopulation
01:00:13versus we need immigration,
01:00:14and so on.
01:00:15So, if Douglas Murray is, well,
01:00:18you know, you've got to hold
01:00:19people's feet to the fire if
01:00:21they get things wrong, okay?
01:00:23So, has Douglas Murray gone on
01:00:27a tour to try and get no one to
01:00:31talk to all of the experts who
01:00:32got all of these things wrong?
01:00:33If not, then it's not about
01:00:44expertise, and it's not about
01:00:46blowback for errors or wrongs
01:00:50or problems.
01:00:58Then it's just going for
01:01:01the competition.
01:01:08So long as it's with Izzy.
01:01:12Izzy has already seen
01:01:13the Minecraft movie,
01:01:16and she loved it.
01:01:18She was very, very concerned
01:01:20that it was going to shred some
01:01:21of her key childhood memories,
01:01:22but she loved the movie,
01:01:24and she and her friends had a
01:01:25blast.
01:01:27They went to a late show.
01:01:29I'm sure she'll see it again,
01:01:31though.
01:01:31She could just do the whole
01:01:33movie review.
01:01:34Yeah, maybe.
01:01:36I'd be interested in the
01:01:37phenomenon of Minecraft
01:01:38audiences throwing food all
01:01:39over the theater like rabbit
01:01:40animals.
01:01:41It's a long way from
01:01:42Gone with the Wind, isn't it?
01:01:52That was a bitter movie.
01:01:53Saw it two years after my
01:01:55parents divorced.
01:01:55Felt like a sequel.
01:01:56Yeah, it's a nasty movie, man.
01:01:57I hope so.
01:01:59The mash guy.
01:02:05He's also very good in that.
01:02:07Plays an old lawyer.
01:02:10Hmm.
01:02:12What are your thoughts on the
01:02:13philosophy of a labyrinth or a maze?
01:02:15Why are some interested in them
01:02:16and some royal gardens made into
01:02:17them?
01:02:17Well, I would certainly say that
01:02:21it's a form of
01:02:23stator signaling, like I'm
01:02:26rich enough to afford a maze.
01:02:27Alan Alda.
01:02:29And
01:02:30also, I would say that
01:02:32mazes are
01:02:33a good
01:02:34torture device for
01:02:35older siblings, the younger
01:02:36siblings.
01:02:37I don't have to be an expert
01:02:49as someone to know that the
01:02:50government shouldn't be taking
01:02:5030% of my money for 27 years to
01:02:52send it to almost every other
01:02:53country.
01:02:54Yeah.
01:02:55Yeah.
01:02:56Yeah.
01:02:58And of course, all disciplines
01:02:59are founded by non-experts, by
01:03:01definition, right?
01:03:03I mean, Socratic reasoning was
01:03:05founded by Socrates, who was not
01:03:07an accredited expert because he
01:03:11was inventing it, right?
01:03:12Like Pascal with probabilities or
01:03:14calculus
01:03:16from Isaac Newton and so on.
01:03:22So if I've got some of these
01:03:24right, it's always funny to me
01:03:26that
01:03:27credentialism arises from
01:03:30non-credentialism and then
01:03:32attacks non-credentialism, which
01:03:33is the source of its
01:03:34power, right?
01:03:37My nephews love Minecraft, would
01:03:39be interested in a review.
01:03:39I have never liked that game,
01:03:41really.
01:03:42Never liked that game.
01:03:45Blocky as hell.
01:03:49Only got 10 minutes into the
01:03:50Rogan video, says someone, but
01:03:52Murray seemed to have a motive
01:03:54further than simply holding
01:03:55amateurs accountable for their
01:03:56arguments.
01:03:58Okay, so who has caused more
01:04:00problems and negatives and
01:04:02dangers and blah, blah, blah in the
01:04:04world?
01:04:05The people that
01:04:06Douglas Murray is listed, or
01:04:12the communists and COVID and
01:04:19COVID lockdowns and harms from
01:04:23vaccines, the COVID vaccine and so
01:04:25on, right?
01:04:26So, you know, I mean, just have a
01:04:28standard, right?
01:04:29So the way that it works in my brain
01:04:31is if you're going to say, well, I
01:04:34need to hold people's feet to the
01:04:35fire for negative consequences for
01:04:40their arguments or perspectives, okay,
01:04:42then let's hold people's feet to the
01:04:43fire for these things.
01:04:45So then what you do is you sort, you
01:04:47don't just say, well, I don't like
01:04:47this guy.
01:04:48I mean, that's emotional.
01:04:50That's immature.
01:04:52You say, okay, so I wish to hold
01:04:55people's feet to the fire and cause
01:04:58negative outcomes for people who have
01:05:01said or done destructive things.
01:05:04Well, done destructive things, I
01:05:05guess, would be for the courts, right?
01:05:10But people who have said egregious,
01:05:11terrible things that have caused a lot
01:05:12of real-world harm.
01:05:13Okay.
01:05:14So let's do that sorting, right?
01:05:16Okay.
01:05:16So those who advocate for spanking, it's
01:05:19pretty bad, right?
01:05:20Those who advocate for communism,
01:05:22totalitarianism, those who advocate for
01:05:24lockdowns, those who advocate for war
01:05:26under false pretenses, a little bit,
01:05:28a little bit more fucking dangerous
01:05:29than a couple of podcasters,
01:05:30wouldn't you say?
01:05:34So I, I, I look for the sorting
01:05:36mechanism.
01:05:38Ah, ah, says someone, you know,
01:05:41those people who say bad things,
01:05:43they make arguments that have
01:05:44negative, real-world negative
01:05:46outcomes.
01:05:46Oof, damn it.
01:05:48I'm going to make those people pay.
01:05:50I'm going to advocate for negative
01:05:52consequences.
01:05:56I'm going for these podcasters.
01:05:59Oh.
01:06:10Melbourne, Australia was the most
01:06:11locked-down place on earth because of
01:06:1325-year high in suicides.
01:06:14No one is held accountable for this.
01:06:16An immediate memory holder.
01:06:17Oh, yeah.
01:06:18Lockdowns were brutal, and I remember
01:06:20standing up against some trees,
01:06:23making the case.
01:06:24I think it was very early in 2020,
01:06:28I think March or so, saying the
01:06:30lockdowns are going to cause far more
01:06:31harm than they could possibly save.
01:06:35Yeah, I mean, you had massive crash-outs
01:06:38in children's IQ and educational
01:06:41attainment.
01:06:42You had people missing preventive
01:06:44treatments, cancer screenings.
01:06:46You had depression, anxiety, suicidality.
01:06:49You had addiction.
01:06:50And, of course, there's a number of people
01:06:55whose mental constitution is kind of
01:06:57weak, and if you expose them to too much
01:06:59fear, it becomes a permanent state of mind.
01:07:01Really, really does.
01:07:03Tears people apart.
01:07:04I mean, how many hypercontracts?
01:07:05Lifelong hypercontracts could have been
01:07:07made from this, right?
01:07:08And what are the consequences
01:07:18for those who advocated these things?
01:07:23What are the consequences for all of those
01:07:25who said,
01:07:26COVID vaccines, they stop transmission,
01:07:29they stop you, you'll never get sick,
01:07:31if they had stopped travel from China
01:07:40right away,
01:07:41there's estimates that it would have
01:07:42had a 97% reduction
01:07:44in illness.
01:07:50You know, there was a study
01:07:52that came out, I think it was in 2020,
01:07:55where they polled Americans'
01:07:58belief
01:07:58in the danger
01:08:00of COVID,
01:08:02and it was 50 times higher
01:08:03than the actual number.
01:08:17I mean, this is something else
01:08:18that was wild as well,
01:08:19which is, you know,
01:08:20they said, well, you can't get together
01:08:21with four friends,
01:08:23but there can be, you know,
01:08:25massive riots
01:08:26all summer in 2020,
01:08:28and that's fine,
01:08:29it's fine.
01:08:30You know, they arrested people
01:08:32walking alone on the beach,
01:08:33they just,
01:08:34oh, it's just madness.
01:08:35I mean, I myself,
01:08:36my family,
01:08:37my daughter and I
01:08:38got kicked out of malls
01:08:39on a regular basis.
01:08:41We wanted to eat,
01:08:43to go eat in the snow.
01:08:44I mean,
01:08:53all the fraud
01:08:54that is being uncovered
01:08:54by Doge.
01:08:56I mean, we'll see.
01:08:59We'll see.
01:09:07Yeah, you can't go to church,
01:09:08but the liquor stores
01:09:09stay open.
01:09:10Mom and pop stores
01:09:11have to be closed,
01:09:13but the big box stores
01:09:14can stay open.
01:09:16Right?
01:09:20I mean,
01:09:21you were told to wear a mask
01:09:22that on the box is said
01:09:23does not protect
01:09:24from coronaviruses.
01:09:32So, you know,
01:09:33if you want to hold
01:09:33people's feet to the fire
01:09:35and suggest negative
01:09:37consequences to people
01:09:38because of what they said
01:09:41had bad outcomes,
01:09:42okay.
01:09:45Are you going to start
01:09:45with podcasters?
01:09:47Objectively?
01:09:50Objectively?
01:09:57I mean,
01:10:03this is the same argument
01:10:04I have with the libertarians.
01:10:05When you,
01:10:05non-aggression principle,
01:10:06great.
01:10:07Let's do the
01:10:08non-aggression principle.
01:10:13What's the biggest
01:10:14violation of the
01:10:15non-aggression principle
01:10:15that you can do
01:10:16the most about?
01:10:17Spanking.
01:10:17So let's focus on that.
01:10:19Nope.
01:10:22No, it's the Fed.
01:10:28It's a little bit depressing
01:10:29over on Locals
01:10:30that I got two bucks.
01:10:31I'll just tell you
01:10:32straight up.
01:10:33It's a little sad.
01:10:34I worked pretty hard
01:10:35on this show.
01:10:35But
01:10:38I'm not going to
01:10:40blame the customers.
01:10:41I just have to do better.
01:10:45Yeah,
01:10:46somebody says,
01:10:46Chris says,
01:10:47Walmart was essential
01:10:47and a local organic
01:10:48grocer wasn't
01:10:49in some cases.
01:10:53Somebody says,
01:10:54Victoria police
01:10:55opened fire
01:10:56with rubber bullets
01:10:57on protesters
01:10:57at the war memorial
01:11:00in Victoria.
01:11:00All they were doing
01:11:01was holding up signs.
01:11:01Yeah.
01:11:02Yeah, I mean,
01:11:21media lies
01:11:22are pretty common,
01:11:23right?
01:11:24I mean,
01:11:25you'd think
01:11:26that Douglas Murray
01:11:27would be upset
01:11:28about things like
01:11:29the Russia collusion
01:11:29conspiracy
01:11:30hoax theory,
01:11:32right?
01:11:34You see,
01:11:35what sanctions
01:11:35is he proposing
01:11:36for that?
01:11:38No, no,
01:11:38but that podcaster,
01:11:40Joe Rogan,
01:11:40you talk to that podcaster.
01:11:41It's really bad.
01:11:42All right,
01:11:49any other last questions,
01:11:50comments,
01:11:50issues,
01:11:51challenges,
01:11:51if you're listening
01:11:52to this later
01:11:52and you find it
01:11:53helpful and valuable
01:11:54what I am doing,
01:11:55if you could help me out
01:11:56at freedomain.com
01:11:57slash donate.
01:11:58Trying to recover
01:11:59the finances for this month,
01:12:00I would really appreciate that.
01:12:01All right,
01:12:12just in case anybody's
01:12:12typing any last questions,
01:12:14I'll wait for a moment.
01:12:18Oh,
01:12:18that's interesting.
01:12:22Dudes posting their wins.
01:12:23Guys will receive one compliment
01:12:24and remember it
01:12:25for the rest of their lives.
01:12:26And somebody wrote,
01:12:29I think it was a woman,
01:12:30how rare is it for men
01:12:30to receive genuine compliments?
01:12:32And she said,
01:12:33there's this guy
01:12:33that I see frequently
01:12:34at a store I visit.
01:12:35He works there
01:12:36and I've been interacting
01:12:37with him for probably
01:12:38two years.
01:12:39I've always thought
01:12:39he was attractive
01:12:40and made a point
01:12:41to see if he wears
01:12:41a wedding ring.
01:12:42He doesn't.
01:12:43In the past,
01:12:43I've also tried
01:12:43to extend our conversations
01:12:44a couple of times,
01:12:46but he never really
01:12:46seemed interested.
01:12:47He's usually in a t-shirt
01:12:48and jeans,
01:12:49but today he was wearing
01:12:49a very nice button-up shirt.
01:12:51I mentioned to him
01:12:52that he was a little
01:12:52dressed up today
01:12:53and he replied
01:12:53that he just felt
01:12:54like wearing a button-up.
01:12:55I replied that
01:12:56it looks nice on him.
01:12:58His jaw dropped.
01:12:59You'd have think
01:12:59that I flashed him.
01:13:00He eventually replied,
01:13:02thank you.
01:13:03I was leaving
01:13:04when we had the conversation,
01:13:06so I continued
01:13:06towards the door
01:13:07and then turned around
01:13:09to wish him a good night.
01:13:11And he was still staring
01:13:12at me with a confused
01:13:13and shocked face.
01:13:14All I did was pay him
01:13:15a genuine compliment.
01:13:17I felt like I just
01:13:17unlocked a dating achievement
01:13:18and that giving a guy
01:13:19a genuine compliment
01:13:20is key to initiating flirting.
01:13:22Just curious to learn
01:13:23how often men
01:13:24in this group
01:13:25receive genuine compliments.
01:13:30Somebody wrote
01:13:31whenever somebody
01:13:31wants something from me.
01:13:34Somebody says,
01:13:352001,
01:13:37two young female
01:13:38sales associates
01:13:38said they were jostling
01:13:39to serve me
01:13:40because I smelled good.
01:13:41Remember it
01:13:42as if it was yesterday.
01:13:49Dated a lot,
01:13:50married three times,
01:13:51some in the military.
01:13:51No compliments.
01:13:52The one effing compliment
01:13:53I recall was a rando
01:13:54Mexican girl
01:13:55in her HB market
01:13:56in El Paso
01:13:57who noticed my butt
01:13:57when I was leg pressing
01:13:58at 850.
01:13:59I spent two to four hours
01:14:00working out every day
01:14:00for ten years
01:14:01and she was the only one
01:14:02to say a word.
01:14:03If I didn't speak Spanish
01:14:03I wouldn't have even known.
01:14:09Somebody wrote,
01:14:09two women opened the door
01:14:10for me at the bank
01:14:11a few weeks ago
01:14:12and smiled.
01:14:12I was frozen.
01:14:13I didn't know what to do.
01:14:14I just said,
01:14:14thanks.
01:14:15Walked back to my car
01:14:16and left.
01:14:16Never went to the bank.
01:14:17It messed me up.
01:14:17Somebody says,
01:14:22I remember I took
01:14:23my teenage daughter
01:14:23clothes shopping
01:14:24and when she was
01:14:25trying on clothes
01:14:25the woman complimented
01:14:26the way I spoke
01:14:27with my daughter
01:14:27about the items
01:14:28she chose.
01:14:28That was over 25 years ago.
01:14:29Still feel good about it.
01:14:31Fellas,
01:14:32a single compliment
01:14:32is our Nobel Prize.
01:14:42That's pretty funny.
01:14:42Okay.
01:14:42I still remember
01:14:58after I was in
01:15:00the play Our Town
01:15:01in high school
01:15:02and this one girl
01:15:04was very drunk
01:15:04at the after party
01:15:07and said,
01:15:07you're gorgeous staff
01:15:09but you float
01:15:10with everybody.
01:15:11I still remember that.
01:15:14Good lord.
01:15:1540 years later.
01:15:1741.
01:15:18Crazy, man.
01:15:22Thank you, Chris.
01:15:22I appreciate that.
01:15:24The tip.
01:15:33My dispatch lady
01:15:34used to call me honey
01:15:35and I appreciated that.
01:15:36Yeah.
01:15:37Damn,
01:15:37life as a dude
01:15:38sounds pretty sad.
01:15:39Yeah, it's true.
01:15:40What is your take
01:15:40on revisionist history
01:15:41as an argument
01:15:42for criticizing events
01:15:43or historical figures?
01:15:45I gotta tell you,
01:15:47I've kind of lost
01:15:47interest in history.
01:15:51I really have.
01:15:53I've kind of lost
01:15:54interest in history
01:15:55because
01:15:57I studied
01:16:00and did a lot of work
01:16:01in politics
01:16:01and I realized
01:16:09and I realized
01:16:09really just how much
01:16:11has been lied about
01:16:12over the last
01:16:1215 years.
01:16:15When did I really
01:16:15start politics
01:16:16about 10 years ago?
01:16:17Maybe 12 years ago.
01:16:19I started doing
01:16:20true news.
01:16:21No, it was probably
01:16:22about 15 years ago
01:16:23I started to do
01:16:24true news
01:16:24and
01:16:26when you do
01:16:28enough of that
01:16:28like you do
01:16:29enough philosophical
01:16:30analysis of
01:16:31current events
01:16:32and you just realize
01:16:33like holy crap
01:16:34just
01:16:36everything's
01:16:38a repulsive lie
01:16:40and you just
01:16:41I just have less
01:16:42interest in history
01:16:43because
01:16:44when you see
01:16:45how much has lied
01:16:46I mean
01:16:47here's the funny thing
01:16:49right?
01:16:49This is sort of
01:16:49the fine people hoax
01:16:50right?
01:16:50That the idea
01:16:51that at Charlottesville
01:16:52in was it 2016
01:16:53that Donald Trump
01:16:54said that neo-Nazis
01:16:55were very fine people
01:16:56which he didn't
01:16:56right?
01:16:57He said they should
01:16:57be condemned
01:16:58after he said
01:16:58there's fine people
01:16:59on both sides.
01:17:04So even when
01:17:05people can see
01:17:08the video
01:17:09like you can beam
01:17:11it to their pocket
01:17:12in
01:17:13three seconds
01:17:15and you
01:17:17they can play
01:17:17the video
01:17:17and that lie
01:17:18persists.
01:17:21So even
01:17:22even if you
01:17:22even if you
01:17:23show people
01:17:24the direct
01:17:25what Yuribes
01:17:26referred to
01:17:27as demoralized
01:17:27it doesn't matter
01:17:28what facts
01:17:28you bring
01:17:28anymore
01:17:29it's demoralized
01:17:29so
01:17:30when you
01:17:32when
01:17:32if you can
01:17:33show people
01:17:34something right
01:17:34in front of
01:17:35their face
01:17:35and they won't
01:17:36believe you
01:17:36what good
01:17:39is history
01:17:39going to do?
01:17:45What?
01:17:46So I
01:17:47I don't have
01:17:49as much
01:17:49I mean
01:17:50peaceful parenting
01:17:50peaceful parenting
01:17:51dot com
01:17:51you should
01:17:52check that
01:17:52out
01:17:52but
01:17:53I'm not
01:17:55particularly
01:17:55interested in
01:17:56history anymore
01:17:57people don't
01:17:59even believe
01:17:59what's in
01:17:59front of
01:18:00their face
01:18:00what are
01:18:01they going
01:18:01to believe
01:18:01about
01:18:01500 years
01:18:02ago
01:18:02somebody
01:18:04says
01:18:04I always
01:18:04remember
01:18:05some
01:18:05beautiful
01:18:05woman
01:18:05with a
01:18:06British
01:18:06accent
01:18:06helped
01:18:06me
01:18:06bring
01:18:07out
01:18:07my
01:18:07groceries
01:18:07to
01:18:08my
01:18:08apartment
01:18:08Steph your
01:18:13daughter's
01:18:13argument
01:18:14re-empirical
01:18:14apologies
01:18:15versus
01:18:15mere verbal
01:18:16ones
01:18:16was good
01:18:17care to
01:18:17talk more
01:18:17about your
01:18:18thoughts
01:18:18on the
01:18:19matter
01:18:19since then
01:18:19because I've
01:18:21been dealing
01:18:21with a
01:18:21health issue
01:18:22I haven't
01:18:22really had
01:18:22much time
01:18:23to think
01:18:23about it
01:18:23but now
01:18:24that seems
01:18:24to be
01:18:24resolving
01:18:25I certainly
01:18:25will
01:18:25so I
01:18:27appreciate
01:18:27that
01:18:28let me
01:18:28just make
01:18:28a note
01:18:28of that
01:18:29lovely
01:18:29question
01:18:29of yours
01:18:30oh it's
01:18:37not there
01:18:37that's
01:18:38over there
01:18:39there we go
01:18:45thank you for
01:18:46the question
01:18:46Oliver
01:18:47I will
01:18:47not forget
01:18:47it
01:18:49there we
01:18:53go
01:18:54thank you
01:18:55look at
01:19:00that
01:19:00we've done
01:19:01a bit
01:19:01of a
01:19:01longer
01:19:01show
01:19:01lately
01:19:02because that
01:19:03buzzing in
01:19:04my ear is
01:19:04much much
01:19:05better
01:19:05any other
01:19:06last questions
01:19:07last
01:19:08queues
01:19:09oh you
01:19:11know what
01:19:11let me ask
01:19:11you this
01:19:12let me ask
01:19:12you this
01:19:12that's
01:19:13depressing
01:19:13and comforting
01:19:14at the
01:19:14same time
01:19:15oddly
01:19:15yeah
01:19:15I have
01:19:18not watched
01:19:18any anime
01:19:19yet I'm
01:19:19afraid
01:19:19I'm
01:19:22currently
01:19:22trashing on
01:19:22white collar
01:19:23it's trash
01:19:24but it's
01:19:25fun trash
01:19:25yeah
01:19:28Trump told
01:19:29people I
01:19:29mean I did
01:19:30the whole
01:19:30untruth about
01:19:31Donald Trump
01:19:31right
01:19:31let me ask
01:19:40you this
01:19:40in terms of
01:19:43the show
01:19:43I should
01:19:44start doing
01:19:44this now
01:19:45that I'm
01:19:45almost 20
01:19:46years in
01:19:4619
01:19:47how would
01:19:48you rate
01:19:49the show
01:19:49the conversation
01:19:50tonight
01:19:50the back
01:19:51and forth
01:19:51the arguments
01:19:52and the level
01:19:53of interest
01:19:53give me a
01:19:551 to 10
01:19:56I'd like
01:19:58to know
01:19:58how I'm
01:20:00doing
01:20:00I'm
01:20:02going to
01:20:02start doing
01:20:02this
01:20:02I should
01:20:03start doing
01:20:03this
01:20:03I mean
01:20:04I'm supposed
01:20:05to be good
01:20:05at marketing
01:20:05right
01:20:06I'm going to
01:20:15give this
01:20:15show
01:20:15I think
01:20:168.5
01:20:17I think
01:20:17that's
01:20:17pretty good
01:20:18as Chris
01:20:20says
01:20:21good point
01:20:21about history
01:20:21I've tried
01:20:22to present
01:20:22lesser known
01:20:23information
01:20:23about 9-11
01:20:24but it
01:20:25clearly doesn't
01:20:25address
01:20:26the virtue
01:20:26and honesty
01:20:27one is
01:20:27applying
01:20:28in their
01:20:30own lives
01:20:30in the
01:20:30present
01:20:30oh
01:20:31honesty
01:20:32one
01:20:32is
01:20:32applying
01:20:33yeah
01:20:33for sure
01:20:33I still
01:20:35absolutely
01:20:35love your
01:20:35historical
01:20:36shows
01:20:36like the
01:20:36French
01:20:36Revolution
01:20:37yes
01:20:38and
01:20:38but the
01:20:39French
01:20:39Revolution
01:20:39sorry
01:20:40I found
01:20:41I really
01:20:41did
01:20:41enjoy
01:20:42the
01:20:43doing
01:20:43the
01:20:44French
01:20:44Revolution
01:20:44but that
01:20:45really is
01:20:45about
01:20:45the
01:20:46future
01:20:46right
01:20:47the
01:20:47French
01:20:47Revolution
01:20:48show
01:20:48is
01:20:48about
01:20:48the
01:20:48future
01:20:495
01:20:51but came
01:20:52in
01:20:52very
01:20:52late
01:20:529
01:20:54thank
01:20:54you
01:20:55JP
01:20:55appreciate
01:20:55that
01:20:568
01:20:56Chris
01:20:57appreciate
01:20:58that
01:20:58I will
01:20:59obviously
01:20:59strive to
01:20:59do a
01:21:0010
01:21:00every
01:21:00time
01:21:004
01:21:02I'm
01:21:02in
01:21:02Scotland
01:21:03it's
01:21:031
01:21:0326
01:21:03a.m
01:21:04and I
01:21:04miss
01:21:04geopolitics
01:21:05but still
01:21:05love you
01:21:05thank you
01:21:07I appreciate
01:21:07that
01:21:07well certainly
01:21:08if you've
01:21:08come here for
01:21:08geopolitics
01:21:09a 4
01:21:09is a fair
01:21:10mark
01:21:11all right
01:21:24all right
01:21:24and again
01:21:24if you're
01:21:25listening to
01:21:25this later
01:21:25freedom
01:21:25main
01:21:25dot com
01:21:26slash
01:21:268
01:21:26seems like
01:21:27a great
01:21:27idea
01:21:28to me
01:21:28yeah
01:21:29I think
01:21:29so
01:21:307
01:21:30appreciate
01:21:31that
01:21:319
01:21:32thank you
01:21:32Johanna
01:21:32appreciate
01:21:33that
01:21:33okay
01:21:34I appreciate
01:21:35that
01:21:35solid 9
01:21:36great
01:21:36engagement
01:21:36thank you
01:21:37very much
01:21:37I have so
01:21:39many notes
01:21:39about this
01:21:40show
01:21:40that
01:21:42you know
01:21:44what
01:21:44I'm going
01:21:44to put
01:21:45this
01:21:45I'll put
01:21:45the notes
01:21:46I'll put
01:21:46my notes
01:21:47Bob
01:21:48is
01:21:50a
01:21:51mean
01:21:52podcaster
01:21:52I'm going
01:21:53to put
01:21:53these notes
01:21:54in the
01:21:54in the
01:21:55show notes
01:21:55I'm going
01:21:58to go
01:21:59with a
01:21:597
01:21:59it was a
01:22:00great show
01:22:01I found
01:22:01the topic
01:22:01interesting
01:22:02it also
01:22:02got me
01:22:02to vent
01:22:02out
01:22:03some
01:22:03frustrations
01:22:03but it's
01:22:03not my
01:22:04preferred
01:22:04topic
01:22:04I
01:22:05appreciate
01:22:05that
01:22:059
01:22:07for sure
01:22:07I came
01:22:07in
01:22:07absolutely
01:22:08against
01:22:08Douglas
01:22:08but gained
01:22:09a different
01:22:09view
01:22:099
01:22:10thank you
01:22:11it was
01:22:12very cool
01:22:13having some
01:22:13homework
01:22:13before the
01:22:14show
01:22:14that was
01:22:14the first
01:22:14yeah
01:22:15high 7
01:22:16low 8
01:22:16I think
01:22:17that's fair
01:22:17I appreciate
01:22:17that
01:22:18thank you
01:22:19thank you
01:22:22I mean
01:22:22I do get
01:22:23where Douglas
01:22:24is coming
01:22:24from
01:22:25I really
01:22:26do
01:22:26like this
01:22:27it is
01:22:27frustrating
01:22:28when people
01:22:29hold themselves
01:22:29forward as
01:22:30implicit
01:22:30experts
01:22:30and you
01:22:31say
01:22:31well you
01:22:31don't
01:22:31have the
01:22:32same
01:22:32regular
01:22:32experts
01:22:32I
01:22:32say
01:22:33hey
01:22:33man
01:22:33I
01:22:33never
01:22:33claimed
01:22:33to be
01:22:34an
01:22:34expert
01:22:34it's
01:22:34like
01:22:349
01:22:38for the
01:22:38portion
01:22:38of the
01:22:38show
01:22:38I
01:22:38watched
01:22:39thank you
01:22:39Zyrol
01:22:39nice to
01:22:40see you
01:22:40back
01:22:40yeah
01:22:44it's a
01:22:44cop out
01:22:45I'm an
01:22:46expert
01:22:46in
01:22:46philosophy
01:22:46well I
01:22:49claim to
01:22:49be an
01:22:50expert
01:22:50I rewrote
01:22:52all the
01:22:52moral rules
01:22:53of mankind
01:22:53from first
01:22:54principles
01:22:54I think
01:22:54that's
01:22:55about as
01:22:55good an
01:22:55expert
01:22:55as you
01:22:56can
01:22:56get
01:22:56won't
01:23:09you
01:23:09please
01:23:10don't
01:23:11that
01:23:11sun
01:23:12look
01:23:12good
01:23:13going
01:23:13down
01:23:13all right
01:23:14thank you
01:23:15everyone for
01:23:16a lovely
01:23:16evening
01:23:17freedom
01:23:17and
01:23:17to help
01:23:18out the
01:23:18show
01:23:18really do
01:23:20appreciate
01:23:20your time
01:23:21care and
01:23:22attention
01:23:22lots of
01:23:22love from
01:23:23up here
01:23:23my friends
01:23:23I will
01:23:23talk to
01:23:24you
01:23:24Sunday
01:23:24morning
01:23:25and
01:23:26we're
01:23:27going to
01:23:28aim for
01:23:28a 10
01:23:28a 10
01:23:29baby
01:23:29big
01:23:2910
01:23:29inch
01:23:30record
01:23:30all right
01:23:31lots of
01:23:31love my
01:23:31friends
01:23:31bye