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00:00U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says President Donald Trump will walk away from trying to broker a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine within days.
00:19This unless there are clear signs that a deal can be struck.
00:22His warning came as he left Paris following meetings with European officials and coincides with some signs of progress in U.S. talks with Ukraine.
00:31Let's take a listen to what he said.
00:33We'd like them to remain engaged. I think they can help us.
00:36I think the U.K. and France and Germany can help us move the ball on this and get this closer to a resolution.
00:44I thought they were very helpful and constructive with their ideas.
00:46So we welcome their input. We welcome their involvement.
00:50We think it's important.
00:52There are probably elements of this as well.
00:54I always remind everybody that part of the sanctions against Russia, many of them, are European sanctions that we can't lift if that's wherever to be part of a deal.
01:04So they're going to have to be involved no matter what.
01:06It's their continent. This is happening on the continent of Europe.
01:08And so obviously European powers will care deeply about what happens.
01:11So they have a stake in this and we recognize it.
01:14But in the end, I think we all want the same thing.
01:17Well, the U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance is in Rome today for talks with Prime Minister Giorgio Maloney, fresh off the Italian premier's visit to the White House just yesterday.
01:27Maloney is the first European leader to lead a charm offensive to meet with President Donald Trump since he imposed sweeping tariffs on the EU bloc.
01:35The U.S. Vice President on his visit, meanwhile, is expected to visit the Vatican with hopes for an audience with Pope Francis to mark Easter.
01:43Let's take us now to U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance.
01:45I want to update the prime minister on some of the negotiations between Russia, Ukraine, and also some of the things that have happened even in the past 24 hours.
01:55We think we have some interesting things to report on, of course, in private.
01:59So the negotiations, I won't prejudge them, but we do feel optimistic that we can hopefully bring this war, this very brutal war, to a close.
02:06I also, of course, want to talk to the prime minister about some of the economic relationships, very important between Italy and the United States.
02:11But, of course, we're having some big trade negotiations between not just Italy and the United States, but the whole European Union.
02:18Well, for more on that, let's bring in Arturo Vavalli.
02:21He's the head of the Rome Office at the European Council on Foreign Relations.
02:26It's great to have you with us on the program today.
02:28First, I wonder what your read is on the primary purpose of this visit by J.D. Vance and the key takeaways to come out of this meeting with Maloney.
02:35Yeah, no, it is an important, two important meetings, the yesterday meeting and the tomorrow meeting.
02:45And I think Georgia Maloney is walking a tightrope, you know, between Europe and the U.S.
02:52On one hand, she wants to maintain strong ties with Brussels, you know, to keep Italy influential in the EU.
02:59On the other hand, she's clearly investing in a close relationship with Washington.
03:07I think this isn't just diplomacy.
03:10It's a sort of smart political survival, keeping options open on both sides of the Atlantic.
03:16I think the meeting, the yesterday meeting with Donald Trump in particular, went very well because it seems to maintain the political line of support for Ukraine and Zelensky, and I'm talking about Maloney.
03:31And also because it eventually succeeded in moderating Trump, you know, who yesterday appeared much more relaxed toward Europe and in negotiation with the EU.
03:43So Maloney tried to manage to get confirmation of the U.S. EU meeting in June in Italy on the sidelines of the NATO summit.
03:54And this allowed Maloney to show herself as a bridge builder in Europe.
04:00And this was, I think, the main goal of the Maloney policy at the moment.
04:06Now, continuing on what you just said about the war in Ukraine, you know, Vance said in the meeting today that he's optimistic about bringing that war to a close.
04:15Now, Maloney is a bit tricky to place for European leaders, isn't she?
04:18Because she's a supporter of Ukraine and yet not exactly a pro-EU.
04:22So given this, what's the role she can play in swinging between Brussels and Washington?
04:26I mean, can we say that she's an ally for Donald Trump in Europe?
04:29Yeah, for sure, Maloney is a good ally of Donald Trump in Europe.
04:36Maloney has tried to rebrand herself internationally, I think, you know, from a sort of nationalist to a reliable Western leader.
04:47And I think, at the same time, her warm gesture toward Trump hint at where her political instincts still lie.
04:59You know, it's a careful dance between ideology and real politics.
05:05And the reality is that Italy needs both the EU and the U.S.
05:09Maloney's method to avoid alienating either Washington or Brussels is to try to demonstrate that the West, beyond the controversies, the current controversies, is alive and united.
05:25And this is the only condition through which Italy can gain time to remedy its own dependency and weaknesses.
05:32Not because Italy has a lot of dependencies, not from defense to natural gas, etc.
05:37So yesterday, Maloney launched the slogan, make Western great again.
05:41I think it seems to me to be an attempt to be catchy with Trump.
05:45I personally believe that this Western dream is a bit of fiction, an illusion, and that she underestimated Trump's collapse of credibility with Europeans in particular.
06:00We still see what happens, but perhaps that is the Maloney real mistake.
06:07But for sure, Italy has the interest to try to be a bridge between the two shores of the Atlantic and also try to maintain the political position that Maloney had in the past two years towards Ukraine.
06:28Because Maloney isn't like to break with Europe on key issues like Ukraine, like tariffs, etc.
06:36She's still likely to maintain her usual balancing act, align herself with Trump and figures like J.D. Vance on cultural and ideological topics,
06:48while at the same time keeping one foot firmly planted in Brussels.
06:53This is a difficult exercise, but at the moment is the mission of Maloney.
06:58Right. And speaking of J.D. Vance, you know, we're hearing that he's hoping for a brief encounter with the Pope,
07:03which would also become, you know, the focal point of his visit to Rome.
07:07So what kind of a message is he hoping to convey with this potential meeting?
07:10I think that they try to give a new impulse to Europe.
07:18They are not talking about value, but it's more identity, identity connotation of Europe,
07:28because they firmly, both Maloney and Vance, believes that Europe needs a more identity,
07:41more cultural identity in the sense of Christian, white, etc., with traditional values, etc.
07:51So I think that in this way, J.D. Vance meeting with the Pope try to implement this kind of politics.
08:03I don't know if the Pope is agree with this, probably not, but they try to use, in particular,
08:09J.D. Vance to use this meeting for give a strong impulse to the American politics towards Europe in that direction.
08:18All right, Arturo Vavalli, the head of the Rome Office at the European Council on Foreign Relations.
08:25It's great to hear your thoughts today. Thank you so much for your time.