Pierre interviews Tim McIlrath from Rise Against
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00:00It is 93.3 WMMR. I'm Pierre Robert, and we have the pleasure of the company of the lead singer
00:06of Rise Against, the brand new record, Nowhere Generation, 11 songs coming on June 4th on Loma
00:13Vista Recordings. Tim McElrath, good day, good citizen. Pierre, it is great to be seeing you
00:19and to be hearing you and talking to you. Great to see you, my friend. Congratulations on this
00:24new record. Now, I wanted to ask you, in terms of the recording process, you went back to the
00:29Blasting Room in Fort Collins, Colorado, which is a place very familiar to you, working with Jason
00:36Livermore and Andrew Berlin, Chris Beeble, and of course, your longtime producer, engineer, Bill
00:40Stevenson. When was the album actually recorded? Winter of like 2019, 2020. So the pandemic was not
00:52in play then. You didn't have, you weren't even aware that there was a pandemic coming then. So
00:56this has been finished for a while then, right? Absolutely. It's been finished for a while. It's
01:01a bit of a time capsule in that way. And it's interesting because when I listen back to the
01:05songs, though, it's like some of them sound like they were written like at the height of the pandemic,
01:09you know, or the height of the Black Lives Matter resurgence, you know, and the protests and the riots.
01:14And it made me think about like, well, what are these songs? What do they mean now? And how will
01:22they be heard in the world they come out in? And it's been an interesting experiment because a lot
01:28of them are really relevant, I think, because Rise Against is always kind of written about the
01:33ideologies behind a lot of what's happening in the world. And so the pandemic is something that just
01:39sort of exacerbated a lot of the world's problems, right? But there are problems that we were already
01:44sort of singing about anyway. Well, in terms of the first single, Nowhere Generation, which is also
01:50the name of the record, you speak about this new generation, but I'm curious which generation you're
01:58referring to, because we have Generation X and Generation Y. I think the youngest is Generation Alpha.
02:04First of all, what generation would you classify yourself as? You know, it's funny. I've been
02:09looking this up because everyone has their own different charts, you know. I looked it on a chart
02:13too. Yeah. And there's different charts of people, you know, have different ideas of where the lines.
02:19I'm right in the middle. So like, I think that I am a very young Generation X. I was born in 78.
02:30Um, and then, um, I think the millennials came just after me. So, but the, but the lines are
02:37definitely pretty great, but it's interesting because I have a little brother who was born,
02:40uh, a couple of years after I was three years after I was, and I do feel like even our experiences
02:46were kind of different. So I feel like, you know, he was born in 81 and like, I didn't go to any,
02:50like the internet wasn't really a part of my schooling, you know, like, well, like whether it was
02:56elementary, high school, or even really college, you know, it was, it was, it was around, but it
03:02was not a very efficient tool to be using in like, like the late nineties, you know? And so I feel
03:06like that alone separated some of these, uh, generations, but that's kind of the concept
03:11of nowhere generation too. Cause I feel like I am speaking to the younger generation, but I'm
03:17careful not to define it because I realized a lot of the problems that the younger generation is
03:22experiencing in today's world. Um, it knows no age or birth date it's happening to my friends.
03:27It's happening to people older than me as well. And so it's just sort of this whole generation
03:32that's being created by the landscape that we're living in now. Well, one of the tenants of each
03:38generation, uh, uh, each set of parents theoretically wants their offspring to do better than themselves.
03:45And yet you're suggesting, um, uh, that there's this obstacle to that happening with, uh, younger
03:53generations, particularly, particularly these days in order for them to reach their dream,
03:59whatever it might be. Yeah. I think that this data will tell us that this will be the first generation
04:04that will not do better than their parents. Um, they're saving less money. Um, they're not,
04:10they don't own houses. Um, they're deciding to forego having families. They're in way more
04:16massive student debt, which is preventing them from doing a lot of those things. Um, and that's
04:22something that I spent a long time looking at because I feel like I was hearing about these
04:26anxieties and these concerns from our fans who are a lot of them are younger than I am. And to me at
04:32first I was like, you know, that's, this is every generation. Everybody deals with this. We're all
04:35swimming upstream. We all think that the, that the tables are weighted against us a little bit,
04:41but then when I was watching a number of elements take place on a, on a historical precedents or
04:48unprecedented, um, like aspect of it all, it was things like the rise of the 1% was happening.
04:55Um, concentrated wealth was happening like in an unprecedented world, you know, um, global warming,
05:01school shooting, social media, all these things were now being thrust upon this generation,
05:07uh, these new and improved ways to kind of keep people down. And when I was gauging the reactions
05:14to this from our fans, I was realized what I was really watching was the way somebody would react
05:20if they were running a race, but the finish line just kept moving on them. And we have to ask yourself
05:27how you would react to that. If you saw that happen, if you were working your ass off to get
05:32to that finish line, but someone just kept moving it, you know, we would all have our own reactions
05:37to that, but they wouldn't be good reactions. You know, and that made me think about how people are
05:42reacting and how it's being characterized. Well, um, when you think about the situations that are out
05:46there, what are the solutions? It's always kind of a tougher question because it's so tricky.
05:52There are so many different perspectives on number one, identifying a problem number two,
05:57or series of problems number two, taking action, uh, as to what might address a solution towards those
06:05difficulties. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's like a big question on a lot of people's mind. And I think
06:11that it starts with identifying that problem. Um, and once you identify that problem, it allows you
06:18to basically stop listening to the previous generations that haven't grown up in a world
06:27or a landscape that looks like it does today. And I think that's kind of step one. I think the people
06:33that have been running the race have been following the rules, have been doing what they were told to
06:37do need to stop listening to the people that are telling them to do those things, you know, because
06:42they are no longer a recipe for success. They are no longer a guarantee of success.
06:47Um, we are living in a world with a lot of unlevel playing fields and we're living in a world
06:53where a lot of the wealth that is being created as being hoarded at the top. Um, and it's really
06:59kind of, um, boxing a lot of people out of, of the castle, you know, the gates are, the gates are
07:06closed behind you. You know, the ladder is being burned away after somebody reaches the top. And so
07:11what can you do about it? Like, number one, like realize that like your future is in your hands.
07:19Don't trust that the way this system has worked in the past will work the same way in the future.
07:25Hmm. So, um, in terms of advice, you have two daughters, uh, and I think you're not that far away
07:32from being an empty nester. So they're of the, um, of the age where they may or may not ask you for
07:39advice. Uh, and you've said before, you know, don't give advice or don't trust advice you might've
07:46gotten. So what advice do you give your own daughters? Uh, quit school and start a band.
07:53No, I don't know. Like that's, that's, um, that's what I write in all my niece's birthday cards too,
08:02you know, whenever they graduate from something. So like, Hey, it worked out for me, but like, no,
08:07I think that you're right. Like I, like the advice that I have in some ways is advice from
08:13my existence on what might as well have been a different planet, you know, compared to what we
08:21are living in today. And so the only thing that I try to do, um, with my kids is sort of give them
08:28the tools to, to make their own decisions, you know, and let them know that the decisions I made
08:36or your mom made, you know, were things that we did, but they won't always apply some, and some of
08:43that knowledge will apply, but a lot of it won't, you know? And so to kind of let them know it's okay
08:48to carve your own path, it's okay to like put your hands on the steering wheel and decide where
08:53you want to go. Um, just because you don't see the thing that you want to do exist right in front
09:02of you, it doesn't mean you can't create that position. You can't create that road in front
09:05of you. You know, and I think that that's what a lot of the future is going to look like. A lot
09:10of things that we didn't previously, um, previously think could exist. You know, we're living in a world
09:16that has like far less coal miners, but tens of thousands of yoga instructors. You know what I
09:24mean? And so like, I don't know if anybody anticipated that 20 years ago. And so like,
09:28what are we not anticipating 20 years from now? Uh, speaking of your daughters, um, one of them
09:35is a classical musician. And, um, as I understand it, so in terms of influence from one generation to
09:42the next, um, do you enjoy listening to her playing? Yeah. It's one of my favorite things
09:49just watching her play. Cause it really is it's music, but it's really her own music. It's her
09:54own instrument, by the way, she plays violin. Okay. Yeah. And she's been playing for a long time and
09:59she's really good at it. Um, and she's at that age too, where she just kind of wants to put it
10:04aside and like, you know, not do it anymore. And it's so hard because I want to let her do that.
10:09If she wants to do that, but it also, you're seeing this talent and you're like, you have no
10:13idea how talented you are. And so she comes from a world that she reads music, you know, and I don't
10:18read music, you know, she's playing, uh, she's playing Vivaldi, you know, and like, I don't know
10:23how to do that. Um, it's funny. You're catching me at time. I just yesterday recitals are remote now.
10:28And so she had to submit a video of her playing a song for a judge, you know? And so I was with her
10:35yesterday, um, just filming this video for her where I really got to sit there and like,
10:41listen to the whole thing and listen, watch her presentation and do all that. And it just blew
10:46my mind. You know, it was like a, cause she did a Vivaldi song actually. And it was like a five
10:51minute long song and she's just going through it. And I was just so impressed with, um, her ability
10:57to do it. And so I guess what I'm saying is I like that she found her own way into music,
11:03you know, and it's not my way, you know, my way is actually pretty foreign to her.
11:07She hasn't really listened to my band or anything like that. You know, it's totally different.
11:10And my oldest is way into like pop music, but like, they've both taught me a lot. Like,
11:16you know, my oldest has taught me a lot by bringing me to some of the shows about
11:19like the pop artists of the days and the language that they're speaking, you know,
11:24and what they're trying to express. And sometimes things that, that I see as like, maybe like
11:28some things I dismiss as like disposable bubblegum pop. She helps me peel back the layers and be like,
11:34well, actually they're talking about this dad. And it's like, Oh, I didn't, I didn't think about
11:38that. So I, I, I become a student in my own house. That's for sure.
11:41That's great though. Behind us in the, uh, in the zoom video is one of the guitars. I think that's
11:47used in the video for nowhere, uh, generation. And can you describe the writing on it? Because that
11:53comes up a lot in the video and it it's been the subject of different speculation among rise
11:58against fans and the spinning hamster and the ants and other things that are contained within the
12:04video. But, um, you've explained some of that, but I love the writing, but, uh, is it, it's sort
12:10of spelling out nowhere generation, but, but not completely. Yeah, that's right. So like that,
12:16the, the writing on that Les Paul there pretty much comes from the artwork on that flag there.
12:21So it's just like a zoomed in version of nowhere generation. And so you'll just see parts of, uh,
12:27the words, but the whole look, everything was, we helped, it was, or, um, designed by,
12:34and with the help of Brian Rodinger, who's a, um, an art director, he helped us just put together
12:39like a big cohesive look to this album, this concept, nowhere generation, and just something
12:47to help define this era of rise against as well. And so I think that we wanted to give people some
12:54really consistent visuals, you know? And so even in like the, um, like you're talking about the
13:01treadmill or the hamsters or the, or the mice that were in the ants, that was all stuff to sort of,
13:07sort of create, um, like a visual metaphor to the way people feel like when they wake up with the
13:15weight of the nine to five world on them, you know, and looking for, uh, an outcome in all of
13:22their, their work and wondering what the outcome is, or are they really getting anywhere? Are they
13:26just on a treadmill? Are they really getting anywhere? Are they just on a hamster wheel,
13:30like creating something for somebody else, you know, and that's all stuff we wanted to tie into
13:35this album. We're speaking with Tim McElrath on 93.3 WMMR. Nowhere generation is the latest record
13:41to be out June 4th from rise against. And, uh, there are 11 songs on it. Uh, I haven't heard
13:47the whole record, just the single you've described the single as I love it to gateway drug to our
13:52album. And I think that's a great definition of any single for any band for any album, but, uh,
13:59I love when a band grows and, uh, you've added strings and acoustic guitar for a song called
14:04forfeit. I don't know anything about the song, but I love the idea of it from this band.
14:09Can you just give us an advanced sample of what that song might be like?
14:12Oh man. It's a really cool, like finger picking, um, acoustic stripped down ballad, I guess. It's
14:21like, um, I don't know. It's like a power ballad, you know, it's like one of those songs, um, about
14:30surrendering or not surrendering your commitment to somebody or something. Um, and it's sort of
14:39exploring all of that, you know, it was written in this room, like a lot of the songs were. And I
14:45remember just like, I remember being here and I was done for the day. So I was turning the lights
14:49off and just walking out and I picked up one of the guitars and just started singing, you know,
14:55and the lights are still off. It's pitch black in here, you know, cause I was really, I was trying
14:59to leave and I just, I couldn't. And I wrote the song just kind of like in this pitch black darkness,
15:03but like all my stuff sort of all shut down. And, um, it came together really quick and it turned
15:09into, um, the song people will hear and I can't wait for them to hear it. Do you love it?
15:13I do. It was like a really cool, I like adding that dynamic to rise against record. Like I like
15:20that we have those different muscles that we can flex that you're going to hear a nowhere
15:24generation, but then you're going to go to the next track. It might just be me and a guitar and
15:29like a hushed vibe and a microphone. And I like that we can get away with that and then go and then
15:33go right back into a Marshall stack and turn it up, you know? And I like that our fans have allowed us
15:38to be that band and to explore, um, all of the weapons in our arsenal. Do we know, um, are there
15:45any plans? Uh, some bands are trying different, uh, attempts at experimenting with a concert. Um,
15:52are there plans or, you know, cause from what I've heard, you've had plans and then they get pushed
15:57back. And so do we think there could be something, uh, on the relatively soon, uh, horizon?
16:06Yes. I mean, a tour or anything. Yeah. I will say that like, you know, I've said it before,
16:12but like my last year of phone calls was all just negative phone calls about nope, nope, nope,
16:16not going to happen. And I've had my first positive phone calls in the last couple of weeks
16:21that I've been talking about, you know, what looks like a realistic path to a live shows,
16:26you know? And so we are scheming and we want to be there, you know, we're chomping up a bit and we
16:32want to be there when the lights go back on. And so we plan on being there if, and when the lights
16:36go back on. So, you know, there are, there's some glimmers of hope on the horizon. So hopefully
16:42this record won't have to go too long before people are able to, uh, see it and hear it live.
16:49You also though, like isolation, you like to write in isolation and God knows you've had enough of it
16:54over the last year. So, I mean, has that been refreshing or restoring in any way?
17:00Yeah, it really has been, you know, I mean, this pandemic has affected everybody differently
17:04and not equally. Um, and for us, you know, rise against, I think has always talked about
17:10taking time off, you know, taking a breather. We've been hitting it really hard for 20 years
17:16and this, this whole lockdown almost forced us to do that, you know? And it was a good thing
17:23for me just to kind of take a step off that treadmill. You know what I mean? Like, cause
17:30I'm on it too sometimes, you know, and just take a deep breath and look around me and take stock of
17:39what we've done and who we are, what we wanted to do, you know, where we want to go forward.
17:44All those things, I felt like it was a good, healthy break. And it means that also, it means that when,
17:49when you see rise against on stage again, you're going to see a rise against like chomping at the
17:55bit, you know, like just, just cannot wait to play, you know? And that's, I'm excited about that too.
18:00One last thing, uh, you've got to go, but you, you over the years have cataloged in a brilliant,
18:06almost laser-like intensity, several of the problems that affect our country and our world
18:13in a variety of ways. And as you look on the landscape of our country and our world now,
18:19as we talked about earlier solutions, um, but what are you hopeful about? Because a song brings
18:26again, attention to a problem. You see things that, that don't seem right. You talk about them,
18:31but as you look on that landscape now, uh, I, I want to leave with what you're hopeful about and
18:38what you really see as, as light and hope, because God knows we need light and hope these days.
18:44You know, I, I am hopeful and I'll tell you why. One of the reasons is like,
18:50when I see this song resonating with people and the song, no, our generation, the song,
18:57no, our generation. Yeah. And they're telling me their stories about why it resonates with them
19:01or how they're applying it to their life. Um, it's so much better to hear that than to hear.
19:07I don't know what you're talking about. This song makes no sense. It's not, it doesn't describe me.
19:13Um, it's not landing, you know, with people, then, you know, they're like people are either still
19:18kind of in the dark about, um, what's happening around them. Uh, or they're just not admitting to
19:26themselves. So when people, like you said, identify the problem, that's an amazing start
19:32because if we can just see what we're faced with and how it's different than what previous
19:39generations were faced with, we can start to analyze the source of those problems. Like we got
19:46to fix concentrated wealth. You know, we got to fix the rise of the 1%. We got to figure out what's
19:51happening there. And people are starting to figure out that there are politicians who, when they get into
19:56government, they'd like to break open that piggy bank and just give it to people who will save that
20:00money and hoard it, you know, and then there are people in government who would like to break open
20:04that piggy bank and disperse it and create infrastructure and create jobs and take care of
20:10people and like more of a long-term look than a short-term look. And I think that people are starting
20:15to lose faith in shareholder capitalism. They're starting to lose faith in the ideas of, uh, of short-term
20:21profits. And they're starting to realize the importance of the institutions around them
20:27that we are all kind of corralled into, but they need to be institutions that prop up who we are as
20:32a society. And if we don't have faith in those institutions, then we fall apart. You know, it's
20:38a dangerous world when you don't see tomorrow. But what are you gaining faith in? Because in terms
20:43of what you see that still lifts your spirit and go, Oh, right. You know what? That is working
20:47because we, we see a lot that doesn't work, but there are things that are breaking through and
20:51working. So you gain faith in people, you gain faith in the power of people to affect change.
21:00You gain faith in creating systems that are more equitable for people, no matter what race or gender
21:08or sexual orientation you are. You start to see that that is what lifts all boats. Not like,
21:16not an economy or not like, uh, um, tax cuts or that kind of thing, but it is the faith we have
21:23in each other that makes our life better. That makes our society better. And that will eventually
21:29make its way to the more, the things people care about in terms of like an economy or whatever,
21:33but politically and socially acceptance, equality, creating outcomes of success for as many people
21:42as possible. You know, those are the things that make us who we are and make us better as people.
21:48And I feel like you're starting to see that, you know, especially in this pandemic, people were able
21:53to kind of take a minute, take a breather and really analyze a lot of the things that prop up our society
22:01and whether they should be dismantled or fixed and how they're affecting them and their family,
22:08you know, and then, and we're also, we're living in a time now where we just got through a roller coaster
22:13of a presidential administration. Right. And now that is gone and we're onto the next.
22:18Um, but we're realizing that a lot of those same ideologies are still existing and we can analyze
22:24them and sort of reflect on them a little more and decide what we want to do with them. And when you
22:30have the kids that are listening to this song want a better future. And so they're going to do what
22:36they need to do to have a better future. Years ago, I took a seminar in San Francisco
22:40and, uh, in it, they spoke of an idea, their wish for the world, which is, uh, I wish for a world
22:47that works for everyone with no one and nothing left out simple, but quite elegant and beautiful. I think.
22:56Yes. And it's a world that works a world that works. Yeah. I mean,
23:00I think that people think about, Oh, I think about the world and the way it works. Now,
23:06some people are advantaged and some people are disadvantaged and the people that are advantaged
23:11a lot of times they're either not aware that they are advantaged or they're aware of it,
23:16but they're so scared of losing that advantage because they feel like they will be losing something
23:21or them and their family would be losing something. And I think that the idea that people are starting
23:27to accept or we need to get across is that we want to create a world, not where anybody loses,
23:33but where everybody wins, you know, you want to create a level playing field. Doesn't mean somebody
23:37is going to take your slice of the pie, you know, like there's just going to be more pie, you know,
23:44like when, when, when exactly. It's like, uh, Malcolm Gladwell has the, uh, the hockey players,
23:50like the, um, metaphor of like the birth dates that we cut off to for hockey players in Canada
23:55and the kids that were closer to those birthdays became better hockey players.
23:59And he was advocating for, to make two different leagues. And some people were saying, no, this is,
24:05this is like the, everyone gets a trophy culture and we need to reject that. And what he was saying
24:09is like, no, if you, if you follow what I'm doing, I'm going to give you twice as many amazing hockey
24:15players. That's what I'm going to do. And when you think about it that way, it's like, that's what we
24:20need. Just twice as many outcomes for success. Tim McElrath, a pleasure to spend some time with
24:28you. Uh, look forward to seeing you at some point, uh, hopefully here in Philly on some form of a tour,
24:33hopefully this year, nowhere generation is the record. It'll be out in full, uh, 11 songs from
24:39this amazing band rise against on June 4th on Loma Vista recordings. And until we see you and want to
24:46take you guys out for a great vegetarian dinner. And I've got just the place. I've got a room
24:52reserved. So when you book Philly book an extra night so you can have it. So I can take you to
24:58this gourmet veggie place, assuming you aren't all cheesesteak eaters at this point, which I think is
25:02probably a, we are not a fair, a wish and desire. So, um, we will see you when we see you. And until
25:10then all the best. You're making me hungry. Just talking about it. I can't wait. All right.
25:16Tim, thanks so much. All right, Pierre. My pleasure. Good to see you. You too. Take care.
25:20All the best. Yeah. Take care.