C'est la deuxième fois que nous recevons Constantin von Hoffmeister, écrivain et éditeur, après son précédent ouvrage "Esoteric Trumpism" qui partage des sujets communs avec son nouveau livre, objet de cet interview : "Multipolarity". L'auteur promeut une refondation de l’ordre mondial avec un retour des traditions et des identités des peuples en défendant le concept d'ethno-pluralisme. Ce livre annonce, comme l’indique son titre et son logo, l’avènement d’un monde multipolaire, avec la fin de l’hégémonie unilatérale des Etats-Unis, dont l'un des signes serait l’élection de Trump. Un ouvrage érudit et provocateur.
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00:00Bonjour à tous chers téléspectateurs de TV Liberté et bienvenue dans ce zoom un peu spécial en langue anglaise avec Constantin von Hofmeister, un Allemand journaliste, écrivain, éditeur qui a vécu dans plusieurs pays.
00:19Hello Constantin and welcome to France in TV Liberté. This is the second time we have invited you after discussing your previous book, Esoteric Trumpism, which shares common themes with your new work.
00:34This new book, Multipolarity, published this year by Arctos, promotes a refondation of the world order with a return of traditions and people's identities.
00:46You call this ethnopluralism. This book announces, as its title and logo indicate, the advent of a multipolar world with the end of unilateral US hegemony.
00:59One of these things is the election of Trump, as Alexander Dugin suggests in the foreword.
01:08But could we consider that Trump's election is, on the contrary, the return in force of the domination of the US, which will gain in power?
01:20Well, Alexander Dugin also explains this. He says it is a kind of brutal multipolarity that we have with the advent of Trump.
01:30But it is still multipolar because the United States is still losing in influence all over the world, as we can see in the Middle East.
01:38In Syria, for example, where the Russians are gaining ground, more influence, the same in Africa, where basically we have a sort of like a new decolonization process with France-Afrique also under attack, and the Russians moving in, like the Wagner Group, for example.
01:55And we especially see what is happening in the Ukraine conflict, which, of course, is a proxy war between the United States and the Russian Federation.
02:05And I think the United States is not winning this war. I think the Russian Federation is winning this war.
02:11So, Russia is definitely a new pole in this multipolar world. And America is losing influence.
02:19And I think Donald Trump realizes this. The Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, even said several weeks ago that we now, America now has to accept that we live in a multipolar world.
02:30So, I think the Trump administration perfectly knows what's going on.
02:33They're just trying to keep America as strong as possible in the new realignment, so to speak.
02:40In one chapter, you mentioned the end of the dollar. What is your basis for this accession? How could the BRICS build a credible alternative currency to the dollar?
02:52Well, I think it is very evident that a lot of countries are becoming more distrustful of the United States because of the United States' policy of imposing sanctions on nations that disagree with American policy, basically.
03:09So, they're sanctioned countries for political reasons. So, they economically punish them.
03:13And they can do this because of the dominance of the dollar.
03:16So, I mean, I think no country in the history of the world has been imposed with as many sanctions as Russia has right now.
03:23And other countries are not blind to see what is happening.
03:27So, they understand that if they rely on the dollar, but then they have some kind of political disagreement with the United States, they will be punished by the United States with sanctions.
03:37So, I think a lot of countries are trying to disengage from this dollar imperialism, basically.
03:45And I think the BRICS, as an organization, will eventually succeed.
03:51Of course, it's a very slow process because you have a lot of countries that are still very dependent on the American economy and on trade with the United States.
03:58So, I think it's a long-term project, but I think it will succeed as multipolarity is gaining pace.
04:05There is another point in your book about the conflict between the culture.
04:11Can civilizations truly coexist or do their differences inevitably lead to war, as Huntington suggested in the theory of the clash of civilizations?
04:23Well, of course, there could be war any time.
04:26I mean, multipolarity is not some kind of hippie vision where we all live peacefully and dance across the meadows, you know, with like flower power t-shirts.
04:34So, basically, what multipolarity is, is the resurgence, like the reappearance of the age of empires.
04:41Because now we see civilization states, and civilization states are basically empires, right?
04:50So, now we have the United States is a civilization state, the Russian Federation is a civilization state, and China is a civilization state.
04:58I would say India as well.
04:59So, we have four civilization states at the moment, so four poles, basically, four empires already in the making.
05:07The European Union is too weak.
05:08It's too fragmented.
05:09I think it's not a sovereign pole.
05:11It's not a civilization state.
05:13And, of course, in the future, when these poles are becoming more powerful in their spheres of influence, we will definitely see, of course, conflicts, you know, because you still have disputed territories, like the Kuril Islands, for example, Japan and Russia and other parts of the world.
05:36So, conflicts might still erupt, of course, but conflicts will then be between civilization states and not between nation states, as they are now.
05:44About this topic, you cite Petrim Sorokin to explain the return of ancient civilizations, for example, Orthodox Russia, Confucian China and nationalist India, as you say, revitalized by their historical roots.
06:03Do you see a kind of connection with what happened in the 20th century with Italy and Germany?
06:11Well, what happened in Germany, I'm sure you're talking about the Third Reich, obviously, right?
06:17So, you had, like, the psychologist Carl Jung, he said it's a spirit of Wotan basically breaking out and coming to the fore.
06:27And the Third Reich was a manifestation of it.
06:30I think this argument could be made, but I think what is happening today with multipolarity is different.
06:37So, basically, we have globalization and the whole process disintegrating at the moment.
06:44And, therefore, more and more nations, or I would say civilizations, are focusing on their own traditions because they don't want to be lorded over by some liberal imperialism, basically, that imposes values that are diametrically opposed to their own values.
07:05I'm talking about, like, for example, the gay rights propaganda, the LGBTQ stuff, the transgender stuff, critical race theory, feminism, etc.
07:15Is it truly linked to the liberalism?
07:17I think it is, of course, yeah.
07:19I think it's a direct result of liberalism.
07:22I mean, all of these phenomena.
07:24And I think a lot of countries are not happy with it, and they don't want to follow suit.
07:28And even the United States, under the Trump administration, basically broke now with a liberal globalist agenda.
07:37And, hopefully, it can keep up and become a more traditionalist civilization as well.
07:42Because you criticise liberalism as a form of white supremacy in agreement with Daya Dugina,
07:49Don't we risk seeing the emergence of another form of global domination, for example, Chinese or Russia, with multipolarity?
08:00We have seen this, for example, in Africa, with the loss of French influence.
08:05Well, I mean, one could argue that liberalism is white supremacism because it is basically a direct continuation of Rudyard Kipling's poem,
08:19White Man's Burden, which was written during the heyday of British imperialism, during the Raj,
08:25when basically the British thought that they had to go to other continents and civilise the savages, so to speak.
08:35Yes?
08:36And today, we have the democratic countries, like the collective West, you know, like Western Europe, United States, Australia, Canada.
08:45And I think they still have the same exact mentality.
08:48I mean, they say officially that they're anti-racist.
08:51But in reality, they're still racist because they say…
08:55They do the contrary.
08:55Yeah.
08:56We have to, you know, liberate Iraq from the oppressive dictator, basically, and bring them or bring women's rights to Afghanistan or gay rights to Syria.
09:09Yes?
09:09And even if the people don't want it, then we'll just have to invade.
09:14We'll have to, you know, implement the regime change, basically.
09:17So, this is basically just a continuation of the same kind of racist imperialism, because they still view these people as not equal to Westerners, basically, meaning white people.
09:29But isn't there a third-worldist prism in the new right, which is almost anti-white repentance?
09:36Yeah, no, I wouldn't say it's anti-white.
09:38I would say it's anti-Western, but pro-European.
09:41And I think it's completely in line also with the earlier French new right when Alain de Benoît and even Guillaume Fay, say, in the 1980s, were arguing that basically European patriots should ally themselves with the third world against, say, back then it was American imperialism.
09:59And it also goes back to the German conservative revolution in the 1920s, when you had people like Hans Nikisch, who was a national Bolshevik, basically, who also said that the West is the number one enemy, and Germany is not part of the West and must, say, ally itself with colonized peoples, because Germany was also colonized, against the imperialist West, basically.
10:20And I think this is just basically the same exact scenario that is playing out today.
10:27Okay.
10:28But more directly in France.
10:30I believe you are in Paris for the Iliad Institute conference.
10:35Do any authors from our country particularly inspire you?
10:40What is the international influence of new right writers?
10:46Well, I'm very much influenced by French writers, and I cite them in my book.
10:50I mean, Alain de Benoît is probably the most important one for me.
10:54I mean, I read a lot of his works.
10:56I talked to him personally.
10:58I interviewed him before for Arctos Journal.
11:01And Arctos also publishes English translations of Alain de Benoît's books.
11:05And I would say the second one is Guillaume Fay, who I've also met personally.
11:10That was in 2006 when he gave a speech at a conference in Moscow, where I also gave a speech, so I had a long talk with him afterwards.
11:16And Arctos also publishes his books, and I edit the books that Arctos publishes.
11:21So I'm very familiar with Guillaume Fay's works.
11:23And then, of course, other ones are Jean Rospey, The Camp of the Saints.
11:27But then also, I would say, non-political writers.
11:30I've also always been influenced and fascinated by the French symbolist poets like Arthur Rimbaud and Paul Verlaine,
11:36and then also Charles Baudelaire, Le Fleur du Mal, because they express the European spirit that embodies both tragedy and heroism at the same time.
11:51You mentioned Fay and Arctos futurism.
11:53Is the return of traditions compatible with the new technologies and the globalizations of flows, particularly digital ones?
12:04Well, I would say yes, because I'm a follower of Guillaume Fay's Archeofuturism.
12:09I think it is the only way forward for European civilization, because, as we know, and as Oswald Spengler, the German philosopher, said,
12:18we are a Faustian civilization.
12:21So as Europeans, we always want to go further and forwards and reach new frontiers, basically.
12:30And now it is digital frontiers.
12:32And I would also say frontiers in space, like Mars colonization that Elon Musk is propagating.
12:37And I think it is not a contradiction, because Guillaume Fay said, we cannot reject technology, because technology will not go away.
12:43The genie is already out of the bottle, so we can only accept technology and try to harness it for our own ends, basically.
12:51And there's nothing wrong with it, because it is completely in the spirit of the European peoples, in my opinion.
12:56Still concerning France, does the European empire of identities that you propose oppose the French nationalist vision?
13:07Well, of course it does, yes.
13:08I mean, the imperial European vision opposes all European nationalisms, including the French one, also the German nationalism,
13:16because the idea is to create a European civilization state, as envisioned by Jean-Thiriat, for example,
13:27yes, from Lisbon to Vladivostok, yes, and then also expounded on by Guillaume Fay with his notion of Euro-Siberia,
13:36yes, as one giant super empire, so to speak.
13:40And in this empire, we don't have nations, because it's an empire, but we have regions, yes.
13:46So people are still allowed to cherish their own traditions and value their own heritage, speak the languages,
13:56worship their religions as they see fit in the regions.
13:59And I think an imperial structure, like the Roman Empire in the past, it is much better at protecting people's heritages,
14:07like different peoples and tribes, than nationalism, because it's actually nationalism,
14:12which came to the fore with the French Revolution in 1789,
14:16that basically tries to force all peoples into one, like, universal form, basically.
14:24Yes, and the imperial structure gives the regions more freedom, I think.
14:28How do you perceive the reception of your ideas in France, a country committed to republican universalism?
14:38Well, I think it's not, well, my vision is diametrically opposed to republican universalism,
14:43because the whole notion of multipolarity says that there are different civilizations,
14:49and these civilizations don't have to follow the same path.
14:53They can follow their own path, because now, today, in this, what you say, republican universalism,
15:01and it's not just in France, I would say it's in the whole Westlake, it's like most Western governments have this…
15:05But it comes from France, originally.
15:07Of course, absolutely, I agree, yes.
15:09Again, French Revolution, of course, yes, 1789, so it was basically, and one would say the American Revolution as well.
15:15Yes, so American Revolution, French Revolution, and now this whole idea that all countries in the world have to follow one particular path
15:24has become accepted everywhere in the West, which is market capitalism, democracy, and liberalism.
15:35Yes, so these are the three pillars, I think, of this republican universalism.
15:38And they want to have it globally, the Westerners, but multipolarity, of course, is completely opposed to this,
15:46because multipolarity says if the West wants to follow these three pillars, if the West wants to be capitalist,
15:53if it wants to be liberal, and if it wants to have a democracy, then, of course, the West is allowed to do this, right?
16:01The West just is not allowed to impose it on other civilizations, because other civilizations might have other ideas.
16:08Maybe they want to have, I don't know, a monarchy.
16:12Maybe they want to have a feudal state.
16:16Maybe they want to be communist.
16:18And why shouldn't they be allowed to be communist or feudal or have a monarchy,
16:22if it suits the psyche or the spirit of their own people?
16:26Your book creates concepts and proposes concrete solutions, like a political program.
16:35Remigration is one of them.
16:37The remigration you advocate raises practical and ethical questions.
16:43How do you envision its implementation without provoking a civil war?
16:49Well, I think the issue of remigration is very, very difficult and very, very complicated.
16:53It is now actively propagated by Martin Sellner from Austria.
16:59And he wrote a famous book, which unfortunately hasn't been translated into French or English, about remigration,
17:06where he presents practical steps, how remigration could be implemented.
17:11Well, in my opinion, it is very difficult.
17:14I do not necessarily agree with all the steps that he mentions in his book,
17:18because I think a lot of people of non-European extraction are basically in Europe or in the West already.
17:27I mean, it is millions of them.
17:29And I think a lot of them will not return.
17:34Yes.
17:34And there are certain thinkers on the right, in Germany, for example, you have Maximilian Krah.
17:44He was interviewed by Compact magazine last month, where he basically said the same.
17:49He said the remigration idea is an ideal, right?
17:52It's an ideal.
17:54What should be achieved?
17:55But it probably cannot be achieved.
17:58I mean, it depends.
17:59So we can probably deport criminal elements.
18:07If they committed crimes, we can revoke their status.
18:10Yes.
18:11But people who were born here in the West and people who have been here for generations who already have citizenship,
18:17I think it's virtually impossible.
18:19So basically, what needs to happen is that I think people on the right need to work together
18:27with maybe even certain immigrant groups who share certain values to create, basically, a new power block.
18:34Yes.
18:35Because demographically, the non-Europeans are growing very fast and Europeans are shrinking, basically.
18:43Yes.
18:43At the current rate.
18:44So even you have the whole phenomenon of ethnic voting.
18:49I mean, even getting elected will become more and more difficult if you, as a political party,
18:55say that we don't want non-Europeans associated with our party because then they will not support you,
19:01they will not vote for you.
19:02Is a multicultural society necessarily multi-conflictual?
19:06It depends, right?
19:08If you have the melting pot like the United States propagates where you want to make everybody the same,
19:14you want to force everybody into basically one enclosed space and you want to force them to get along with each other,
19:23then, of course, it will lead to conflicts.
19:25Yes.
19:25But if you have the ethno-pluralist vision implemented, I think conflict can mostly be avoided
19:32because according to ethno-pluralism, which also will probably need to happen in Europe at some point,
19:38so you will have certain regions that are reserved for certain peoples, yes,
19:43where they can basically do their own thing without bothering other people.
19:47Yes.
19:47I mean, I was in Los Angeles last year, for example,
19:49and I would say Los Angeles is a good example of an ethno-pluralist city in action, yes,
19:54because you have different districts.
19:55You have, like, Little Tokyo, like Koreatown and Chinatown.
19:59And these people really stick to their own neighborhoods, yes,
20:05where they have their own infrastructure, where they practice their own traditions,
20:09the street signs or the shop signs are in their languages.
20:12They have their own lawyers, their own shops, their own schools, et cetera.
20:17And I think this is what needs to happen on a national scale
20:21because it reflects what will eventually happen on an imperial scale.
20:24Because even the Roman Empire, right, I mean, it was a huge imperial structure,
20:28but you had lots of different peoples, ethnicities, and religions within it, yes.
20:35And I think most of them were allowed to practice their own traditions
20:38and pretty freely and live on their own territory.
20:42The only thing that was required, that they pay their respects to the Roman emperor.
20:45By what concrete means, an institutional mechanism, do you propose to organize multipolarity,
20:56reform UN, new treaties?
21:00Yeah, I think multipolarity is already in existence.
21:03I mean, I think we're already living in a multipolar world
21:06because we already have four poles at the moment.
21:08And I think new poles will emerge.
21:10There could be an Islamic pole if the Islamic peoples ever find a way to unite, for example.
21:18I think it's implementing itself.
21:20I think the UN is becoming obsolete because nobody really cares what the UN says, yes.
21:26I mean, a lot of people pretend and they always say, but the UN said this and you don't follow, like, some UN mandate.
21:34But nobody really cares because, in reality, it is all about the Darwinian principle.
21:40The might is right, basically.
21:41So if a country or a civilization or a state is powerful enough to do something,
21:46then it will do it whether the UN allows it or not.
21:48Like the United States, when they instigated all kinds of wars, yes, I mean, without UN approval, of course, very often.
21:58But they do it anyway because who's going to stop them, right?
22:01So in a multipolar world, it will be more difficult for civilizations to instigate wars
22:07because you have more checks and balances, because you have more powerful actors on the world stage
22:14with nuclear weapons, which is absolutely crucial for sovereignty.
22:19One last question.
22:21The final chapters of the book have almost a gnostic dimension,
22:26presenting multipolarity as a cosmic realignment.
22:30You often link multipolarity and spirituality.
22:34Constantine, Christianity is universalist.
22:39So what religion for Europe?
22:42A kind of new religion?
22:44Well, I would say Christianity is a universalist religion in its basic tenets.
22:51But I think European Christianity, especially Catholicism and Orthodoxy,
22:56have been influenced by a lot of pagan elements.
23:01I mean, there's this famous book, The Germanization of Medieval Christianity,
23:06where they incorporated a lot of pagan elements to basically create a European type of Christianity,
23:13which has basically influenced our content for the last 2,000 years.
23:17So I think Christianity is the religion of Europe right now.
23:21And I do not advocate somehow reviving paganism, because it has become too alien to too many people.
23:30I think it will not be successful.
23:32Of course, I mean, if certain people wish to practice paganism, they're free to do so.
23:37Yes.
23:38But if you want to have a really traditionalist society, you should have a state religion.
23:43And I think, well, in the case of France, it should be Catholicism, in my opinion.
23:48Because it has influenced, for good or for bad, in my opinion, more for good, this nation for hundreds and hundreds of years.
23:58I agree.
23:59And you can see it in the cathedrals, of course, the majestic expressions of the Faustian spirit,
24:05but also infused with Christian spirituality.
24:08Do you have a last word before we end?
24:11Well, I would just like to add real quick, if you talk about spirituality, because spirituality is very important.
24:18And the immortality of the human soul supersedes all materialist concerns.
24:25And in a multipolar world, because you already mentioned Christianity,
24:29we don't want to, I don't know, send missionaries to other civilizations and convert them to our religion.
24:37So, of course, all religions should be respected.
24:39So, we'll have Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, but they should be based on the roots where they originated and blossomed, basically.
24:49Merci à tous, chers téléspectateurs de TV Liberté, pardonnez mon accent parfois défaillant,
24:57j'ai fait de mon mieux, à très bientôt pour un prochain Zoom.