Macron expected to exchange with Saudi's MBS on Ukraine and Lebanon in Paris talks
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Transcript
00:00 Let's speak to our senior reporter, Catherine Norris-Trent, standing by outside the Elysee Palace.
00:03 Hello to you, Catherine.
00:05 Tell us a bit why this meeting is so controversial.
00:07 Hi there, Will.
00:12 Yeah, this meeting has caused a lot of controversy already.
00:16 You've had the head of Amnesty International hitting out at Emmanuel Macron's decision
00:21 to host a working lunch with Mohamed Ben Salman,
00:23 as saying that calling him the prince of shame
00:28 and a murderer prince, referring of course to the killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi,
00:33 also talking about human rights internally in Saudi Arabia and the war in Yemen.
00:39 And they've also been calling on Emmanuel Macron to pressure MBS as they sit down for talks on human rights,
00:45 notably trying to get a stay of execution for seven young men who are on death row in Saudi Arabia.
00:52 So, as always, when Mohamed Ben Salman is met by Western leaders and met by Emmanuel Macron,
00:57 there's a lot of uproar from human rights groups who say that this is just normalizing him,
01:03 even though they say he's had no comeuppance for the murder of Khashoggi.
01:08 So this is something that will happen every time.
01:11 But Emmanuel Macron was one of the first Western leaders to go and meet MBS back in 2021.
01:17 Remember, last year, in July last year, Mohamed Ben Salman came to Paris,
01:21 and so he's coming here again today.
01:23 Amnesty International accusing France of basically putting "real politique",
01:27 their interest, above any kind of ethics or human rights considerations.
01:32 Yeah, and Catherine, we were just speaking with a correspondent in South Africa
01:34 about this delegation in Kyiv today trying to get a peaceful resolution to the war.
01:41 What does Macron want out of this meeting today in Paris? What does MBS want?
01:46 So Emmanuel Macron has been very clear,
01:51 his office has been very clear to say that they are putting Ukraine high on the agenda for these talks.
01:55 And they say it's important to keep on talking with non-aligned countries
02:00 to try and get them to take a more supportive stance towards Ukraine.
02:05 And they've already spoken about limiting the fallout for that.
02:07 They really don't want countries like Saudi Arabia to come down on the side of Russia.
02:12 They want to try and get support for Volodymyr Zelensky.
02:17 And we saw Volodymyr Zelensky heading to Saudi Arabia to meet with members of the Arab League.
02:21 It's something the French presidency is very keen to push.
02:24 They also want to talk to Mohammed bin Salman about Lebanon and the political crisis there,
02:29 because Saudi Arabia has a lot of sway in that country as well.
02:33 And of course, Saudi Arabia is one of the world's top oil producers.
02:36 So that is in the equation with France and other European countries
02:39 looking to diversify their energy supply following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
02:44 As for MBS, well, he wants to try and untarnish his image.
02:49 He's been trying to rebrand himself and the country,
02:52 making lots of cultural and sports acquisitions.
02:55 He's in town. He's going to be trying to win a bid for Saudi Arabia to host Expo 2030,
03:02 a major world exhibition that will be decided soon.
03:05 There'll be a reception in Paris.
03:07 So this is all part of him trying to get his image back
03:10 and trying to push Saudi Arabia in the long term away from oil production
03:14 into a major sports and cultural center too.
03:17 All right, Catherine, thank you very much.
03:18 Catherine Norris, Trends, reporting from outside the Elysee Palace.